Flirting

[Max T]

Are all INTJs hopeless AT flirting?
What are your experiences with reading flirt signals?
What advice would you give to others?
Can INTJs flirt at all?


I'm very inept at flirting but consider it to be an important, obvious precursor to finding a soul mate. * So what might be considered a very trivial issue for us could have big implications later on.

One time I spoke with a girl whose face went flushed red- all I could think was "what is wrong?". * Next time she appeared slightly nervous and overly talkative. * 1 week later I examined the reactions and considered she might have a slight crush, but the opportunity was gone. *
How can some guys recognise the signs in milliseconds and others take urm... weeks!(Thread idea by rwyatt365).

(Edit- from "Are all INTJs hopeless flirts?" to "... hopeless at flirting?")

[Rei]

I can't believe this is appearing in an INTJ forum.

Hopeless flirts as in hopeless at being good at flirting?
The term hopeless firlt generally gives me the impression of someone who flirts constantly.

Anyway... It really depends who it is. *It easy when it's a two-way street. *I mean, if I know the other person is a flirt in the first place, it's only natural to go with the flow. *(I swear, if you don't these people will probably think you like them *:suspicious: )
Reading flirt signals... I must say as modestly as I can, that I'm pretty good at reading it. *It's part of the intuitive reading of people and their intentions in general.

Advice:
Considering it's intuitive it's hard to give advice.
Just a list of signs, the obvious things...
throwing complements, slight but not accidental physical contact, laughing too much, leaning toward you in conversation.
Guys... tend to tease... usually girls respond with smacking the guy if they're flirting back. *:thumbsup:
Biggest solution... get in touch with your F man! Being borderline is a good thing ;)


My actual desire to respond to this is almost embarassing. *But hey, hope it helps *:thumbsup:

[Zard Lucifer]

Are all INTJs hopeless flirts?
What are your experiences with reading flirt signals?
What advice would you give to others?
Can INTJs flirt at all?

I'm very inept at flirting but consider it to be an important, obvious precursor to finding a soul mate. *
rwyatt365).

1. HELL NO!
2. It takes practice, we'll get there in a moment.
3. Wait a tick.
4. YES WE CAN!

YES I believe that flirting is IMPORTANT, for us because it's how the game of love is supposed to be played, and even more so to other types (at least to non-rationals) because I think that to them, its probably half of what the relationship is about.

Regarding flirting signals, don't count on *signs* such as, the girl stroking her hair, fixing herself etc.
It's pretty simple to know if a person likes you, the person keeps talking to you.

Now, just like learning a programming language or some hard math formula, it takes understanding and some practice to get the hang of it.

[Zard Lucifer]

Reading flirt signals... I must say as modestly as I can, that I'm pretty good at reading it. *It's part of the intuitive reading of people and their intentions in general.


I agree. We need to make up for the F we lack by using I instead, hence we need experience/knowledge/wisdom.

My previous post is totally vague. Let me just get my thoughts together.

[Max T]

LOL
Noooooh Rei and Zard, I meant hopeless at flirting.
The thought of INTJ's flirting all the time (i.e.hopeless flirts) never even crossed my mind!

Major communication fault- initial post modified.

[Jezebel]

Are all INTJs hopeless AT flirting? Can INTJs flirt at all?
I don't flirt at all and I don't want to. It's very foreign to the way I behave. Well, maybe with someone I'm already in a relationship with... but I doubt that's what you're asking about.

What are your experiences with reading flirt signals?
I can read the signals, but I become very uncomfortable when I think guys are flirting with me because I don't know how to give a proper response. I usually end up avoiding them :-/

What advice would you give to others?
To never take advice from me about flirting.

[Zard Lucifer]

So to simplify your question, you're asking if INTJ's can't improve at flirting?

If that's the case I think I got the idea right. ^__^;

[Max T]

::) Now Jezebel's at it... (slaps forehead).

Sorry I meant 'hopeless AT flirting', not that 'INTJ's are hopeless flirts'.

Yes I don't know a proper response.
Invariably I avert my eyes immediately, ignore any other signs and later think about the girl and my current circumstance in life (like 'is now a good time for a relationship?'). Usually the opportunity then goes so I don't have to deal with it.

[Zard Lucifer]

Also, the definition of flirting that I know comes right of the dictionary:

"Flirting is a form of human interaction, usually expressing a sexual or romantic interest in the other person. It can consist of conversation, body language, or brief physical contact. It may be one-sided or reciprocated."

[Jezebel]

::) Now Jezebel's at it... (slaps forehead).

Sorry I meant 'hopeless AT flirting', not that 'INTJ's are hopeless flirts'.
I responded with the 1st meaning in mind. Not sure what kind of different answer you expect for it.

[Zard Lucifer]

::) Now Jezebel's at it... (slaps forehead).

Sorry I meant 'hopeless AT flirting', not that 'INTJ's are hopeless flirts'.
I responded with the 1st meaning in mind. Not sure what kind of different answer you expect for it.


Me too.

Anyway, you said that " It's very foreign to the way I behave."
I mean a smile or even a wink can be considered as flirting behaviour, it just depends on the people performing the act and/or the people viewing it.
I only posted the definition to clarify things. Sorry ^__^;

[Max T]

I don't want to risk further confusion by explaining how "hopeless flirts" has two meanings.
Refer to the amended first post.

(Jezebel- look good if you could make your cat blink occasionally. How Zard could have put some radioactive isotope in his dog's water is beyond me). ;D

[Firelie]

Oh shoot, I flirt all the time. A smile, a teasing comment...nothing physically suggestive. Possibly verbally suggestive, though. I've been called a "tease" before. Heh. [smiley=flirt.gif]

HOWEVER, I don't pick up on it all the time when people are flirting with me until I've had some time to think about what they've said, unless they're being very overt about it, in which case it's usually gone to the point of offending me.

Advice? I don't have any. Make sure you brush your teeth if you're going to smile at someone, though.

[Zard Lucifer]

::) Now Jezebel's at it... (slaps forehead).

Sorry I meant 'hopeless AT flirting', not that 'INTJ's are hopeless flirts'.

Yes I don't know a proper response. *
Invariably I avert my eyes immediately, ignore any other signs and later think about the girl and my current circumstance in life (like 'is now a good time for a relationship?'). * Usually the opportunity then goes so I don't have to deal with it.


I think I got what you mean the first time around.
Anyway, lets start crackin.

So your story goes this way, "boy meets girl, boy messes up by not being able to *read* anything, boy understands what happened a week later." Correct?

And the problem is, generally INTJs have a handicap when it comes to relationships.

Borrowing from Rei, yes, you have to try and get in touch with your F side.
Now, that's not easy to do so the best alternative is to substitute I(tnuition) for F(eeling).

That's actually what you've been doing, only that it took you a week after to get it done.

And so... the best way to get this system working is practice.
Because through practice, you can train your intuition.
You can learn to know what happens next.
For example, if a girl is hugging a guy while whispering to him, generally your intuition will tell you what?
Does that tell you that the girl hates the guy?
Generally, the answer to that would be NO.

OK, now, how do you train your intuition?
You can ask girls and guys who understand the language of flirting.
OR, better yet (and I believe this the only way you learn)
Get into the action, as in date people who aren't your special someone.
(Before you point your shotgun at me because of morals, values and zeal, hear me out.
I believe that dating is about meeting people, getting to know them better, I believe that even friends can date. So there.)
That way when it matters, when you see a girl you like, (since as Rei would put it "INTJ's in general are picky as spoiled house cats") you don't miss the chance to get her!

This has been a long winded post, though I'm not sure if it makes sense and I got everything out of my head.
It's sounds geeky to rationalize romance, though I do love to share what I know.
Anywho, I hope that helped somehow.

I'll try to post more about this later. Time to sleep.

[rwyatt365]

The only time that I know that a flirt is a flirt is when it is blatant and obvious. I mean walk up, sit in my lap, plant a wet juicy one on me and say, "I want you, now", and I'll get the hint. Anything less and I'll probably miss the boat.

For example;
I went on a cruise with a church group (where I met my current wife). During the cruise my wife to be hung around me constantly, but I just thought that I was a "familiar face" to hang with. On the way back from the Bahamas she told me that she was feeling seasick and needed to lay down and she asked if I could sit with her in her cabin in case she needed something. [ok, ok, stop laughing!] So I did, we went to her cabin and I sat with her through the evening while she was "feeling ill". [I mean it, stop laughing!!] I didn't try to make a pass at her…nothing, although I did hold her hand – at her request.

It wasn't until after we got married that she told me that she was propositioning me then. Here I thought she was just an ill God-fearing church-girl in need of a chivalrous guy, when all along she was lusting for a hot night on a midnight cruise! I was totally oblivious.

I could tell you all more but I'd only embarrass myself and I'd have to commit seppuku.

I'm even worse when it comes to being a flirt – if that's even possible. I can manage to sustain about a 3-sentence flirtation but I begin to analyze replies and the whole thing falls apart quickly. Them I'm left with a vacant look on my face (so THAT'S where that 'blank, vacuous look" comment comes from!!) and end of conversation. I think all of that is why my relationship count is way down.

I constantly marvel at those guys (and girls) that can rattle off smooth talk, adjust to the situation immediately and come out "victorious" most of the time. How can they DO that?!!

[OneBadMother]

Hmm, as far as I can read my INTJ friend, he is a different enough person from everyone else to be impossible to read. Therefore, anything that can be taken as a sign of attraction/flirting in others is no sign at all when it comes to him. For instance, prolonged eye contact is supposedly a sign of attraction, but he tends to make prolonged eye contact with anyone that he's holding particularly animated conversation with, such as other, male friends. So I figure nothing can be taken for granted with you guys, and adjust accordingly using my intuition.

[Jezebel]

Anyway, you said that " It's very foreign to the way I behave."
I mean a smile or even a wink can be considered as flirting behaviour, it just depends on the people performing the act and/or the people viewing it.
I only posted the definition to clarify things. Sorry ^__^;
These are the definitions I go with:
To make playfully romantic or sexual overtures. . . to court triflingly or act amorously without serious intentions; play at love; coquet.

If I smile at someone, I don't consider it flirting. I always think of flirting as being more playful in nature. I do tease, but more in a friendly way... my behavior is the same with males and females. I can't remember the last time I winked at someone (off of a forum, heh).

I answered from my experiences, but I do think INTJs are capable of learning to flirt if it's a skill they want to master. I'm heavily biased though because I'm already in a long term relationship. I don't like to flirt, I don't see the point, and because I already have a relationship secured I have no motivation to learn.

[Firelie]

I'm heavily biased though because I'm already in a long term relationship. I don't like to flirt, I don't see the point, and because I already have a relationship secured I have no motivation to learn.

Just curious...how did you get into a long term relationship if you don't like to flirt? I have a mental picture of you walking up to someone and going "Hey, want to date?" lol I'm sure that can't be right.

[Jezebel]

Just curious...how did you get into a long term relationship if you don't like to flirt? I have a mental picture of you walking up to someone and going "Hey, want to date?" lol I'm sure that can't be right.
He was a friend of a friend and I was staying at his apartment while we were visiting. The weekend we met, we talked a lot and found out we had a lot of shared interests. About 2 days in we were watching an animated movie and I was blabbing about how neat the technology was and other nerdy, unromantic things and he suddenly kissed me. After that, we just stayed together. We completely skipped the "just friends" part too.

In retrospect, it seems like I went into it impulsively but so far it has worked out.

[Firelie]

He was a friend of a friend and I was staying at his apartment while we were visiting. The weekend we met, we talked a lot and found out we had a lot of shared interests. About 2 days in we were watching an animated movie and I was blabbing about how neat the technology was and other nerdy, unromantic things and he suddenly kissed me. After that, we just stayed together. We completely skipped the "just friends" part too.

In retrospect, it seems like I went into it impulsively but so far it has worked out.

Okay, not quite so weird as walking up to someone and asking to date, *but still a somewhat odd way to start a relationship. *Glad it's worked out for you, though. * ;D

Sorry for derailing the thread. *We stay on topic now.

[Jezebel]

As another alternative to flirting, I was thinking if I'm ever single again next time I'll just make dating applications. Sure it's weird, but any guy who actually takes the time to fill one out, return it to me, AND answers the questions to my liking is worth giving a chance. :thumbsup:

[rasoirviolon]

As another alternative to flirting, I was thinking if I'm ever single again next time I'll just make dating applications. Sure it's weird, but any guy who actually takes the time to fill one out, return it to me, AND answers the questions to my liking is worth giving a chance. *:thumbsup:
applications... typically INTJ :thumbsup: flirting... definately not my forte but online... i'll play it up a little just to have some fun. i think i'm pretty accurate at reading flirtatious signals but as for returning them i'm utterly clueless. avoidance is the card i usually play.

[Rei]

Hrm
I answered in with "hopeless in terms of knowing how to flirt" in mind... =/

I dunno what you want me to reply to now :o

[Guido]

Are all INTJs hopeless AT flirting?

Initially, yeah I would think so.

What are your experiences with reading flirt signals?

Lots of practice. I used to be horrible with trying to tell if a girl liked me or not. My ESFP sister was a big help to me when it came to figuring this stuff out. It would happen often that I'd talk with some girl while my sister is around and later my sister would be like 'that girl was totally into you! Why didn't you ask for her number?' which would then be followed by a humiliating lesson on the signals I just missed.

What advice would you give to others?

Get an ESFP sister. If one isn't readily available, just observe others and how they flirt. A lot of their methods will be kind of dumb, so only take the ones you could see yourself doing. You cannot feel awkward while flirting, otherwise the whole thing will go off like a lead balloon. Hence you should take methods that you can see yourself doing. Start flirting with anyone you consider remotely attractive for practice. You can learn to 'fake it' with your iN. Me personally, I like to tease people about their thoughts and beliefs (INTJ ftw!!) Throw in a little timed physical contact in there, and you're good to go.

Can INTJs flirt at all?

Practice this alot, and it's not a problem.

[bikerscars]

i will engage in small talk with someone who sparks my interest as a step to see whether a deeper connection can be achieved

it is not easy finding a women with who i can just be myself and not need to morph occasionally into some touchy-feely social butterfly in order to fulfill some base need in her

flirting can be fun...but most times i become uncomfortable if the flirting remains on a shallow level for too long

[qwerty]

Hmmm yes and no I do notice the flirting. Mostly yes I get it straight away but mostly no I don't go into the whole flirting thing in return (like I'll play abit but not as much as the other person)..... Weird I guess but I've never been a fan of instant attraction between people, which I guess is bad for dating count and it also makes me sound like a woman when I say it like.

Rules change for hotties but generally I don't attract people with my looks, it's all about the 'show' and if they respond the way I like (not robotic and at least some effort to keep up) I do take into account when they just say silly things but yeah I'd much prefer to start lightly as otherwise I tend to emotionally scar people (oops - score card on severely damaged property is 2 vs. nil, I'm winning). I mean I don't fall for people as fast as they tend to fall for me so I'll slow them down before they get too involved and make an ass of themselves.

[Firelie]

I mean I don't fall for people as fast as they tend to fall for me so I'll slow them down before they get too involved and make an ass of themselves.

The same thing happens to me. I wonder why that is.

[Jbmontag]

I've never made a conscious effort to flirt. Though I had an ex that constantly accused me of flirting with everyone.

It is kind of off topic, but what would you define as flirting? It is one of those words that seems to have subjective meaning.

[Tarrick]

I mean I don't fall for people as fast as they tend to fall for me so I'll slow them down before they get too involved and make an ass of themselves.

The same thing happens to me. I wonder why that is.


I would imagine that it's because you/we as INTJs respond to emotional things more slowly then other temperaments.

And JB:

Flirting:
1. To make playfully romantic or sexual overtures.
2. To deal playfully, triflingly, or superficially with: flirt with danger.
3. To move abruptly or jerkily.

I would guess that the first one is the one that we are dealing with. Let the pondering begin.

[ciphersort]

Hmm, as far as I can read my INTJ friend, he is a different enough person from everyone else to be impossible to read. Therefore, anything that can be taken as a sign of attraction/flirting in others is no sign at all when it comes to him. For instance, prolonged eye contact is supposedly a sign of attraction, but he tends to make prolonged eye contact with anyone that he's holding particularly animated conversation with, such as other, male friends. So I figure nothing can be taken for granted with you guys, and adjust accordingly using my intuition.

That happens to me. All of my love interests have mentioned the way I gaze into their eyes... that look etc... I used to try to explain that it was just my default look, but no longer because none of them believed me anyway. Thanks to the compliments and feigned complaints (I can't stay mad at you... you trap me with your eyes...) of my Xs my gazes and glances are now lures in my tackle box and I practice using them as much as possible.

Flirting is about confidence, timing, and rhythm... control (of yourself mainly).