Conquering Fun

[sriv]

Fun is the expenditure of time in a manner designed for therapeutic refreshment of one's body or mind. Leisure is a form of entertainment or rest. (wikipedia)

In my experience of life, I found that many are unable to find a balance between fun+leisure and work, including myself. Since fun counteracts stress, if one has little stress, I assume one does not NEED to have fun.

Explain your experiences with the fun and work conflict in your life. Society is urging people to find a job that is fun. I tend to think that getting a fun job is preferable rather than necessary.
Has anyone conquered dependency on fun? Do you believe it is possible?
To be able to choose when you want to work and when you want to have fun without requiring a balance and without getting addicted to either would be incredibly empowering.

[curiousjane]

Very interesting topic, sriv.

In my experience, conquering the "fun first" mentality is the byproduct of what is traditionally called "growing up." (Yes, that was intended to be a little sarcastic. ;) )

In all seriousness, though, the ability to set aside the fun for the necessary is a mark of maturity--one that I myself have not yet fully mastered.

For instance, my father, a strict ISTJ, has been working for years in a job he can barely stand just so he can provide for his family. Could I do what he is doing? No. But I do currently work at a job that is usually uninspiring, sometimes demeaning (I get asked to do errands for my bosses that they are themselves fully capable of doing), and often frustrating. I have not quit my job, because 1) I'm not stupid. I know that I can do this job in my sleep, which leaves me plenty of mental down-time; 2) I need the money to pay the bills. Of course, this hasn't kept me from looking for another job.

Would I prefer a "fun" job? Yes. Of course! I am, by nature, a creative person. When that creativity does not have a challenging outlet, I tend to either shut down or get listless. However, I can also find "fun" in my hobbies, my social activities, my day dreams. What defines a "fun" job? For me, one that draws upon my strengths (art, writing, empathy for the people around me, future-minded "what if?" strategizing, creating systems that work more efficiently and effectively, making intuitive order out of counter-intuitive chaos, etc.) Quite frankly, I doubt I will ever find a job that fulfills me completely in this way.

[Aronnax]

Fun does more than counter stress, it counters boredom. I've found lots of ways to minimize stress by eliminating stressful situations and activities as well modifying my outlook. However, it's very challenging to eliminate boredom without "fun".

My precise definition of fun is probably different than the norm. I consider anything interesting "fun" so that includes a lot of problem solving that most consider work.

[Rowan]

Fun does more than counter stress, it counters boredom. I've found lots of ways to minimize stress by eliminating stressful situations and activities as well modifying my outlook. However, it's very challenging to eliminate boredom without "fun".

My precise definition of fun is probably different than the norm. I consider anything interesting "fun" so that includes a lot of problem solving that most consider work.

I concur with this; stress is an easy adversary, boredom, on the other hand, is a dreadful affliction and ‘fun’ or amusement is the best cure.

[mkay]

I've never had fun vs. work conflict. I enjoyed the work so much the hours didn't matter much. I went into my career not expecting to make much, not caring as long as I liked the work, and I ending up making a good living.

I did what I wanted to do in that career, now I'm switching to something much different. I like to keep learning, stretching myself. To me, that's what will make my new career fun, even knowing that I will have to work very hard and make only a fraction of what I used to make.

When I hear about people who hate their work, I figure they made their choices.

[sriv]

I concur with this; stress is an easy adversary, boredom, on the other hand, is a dreadful affliction and ‘fun’ or amusement is the best cure.

"According to research cited in Time magazine, stress is a major factor in many of the leading causes of death in the United States.(wikipedia (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.))" IMO boredom can easily be cured by happy reminiscence or daydreaming. Maybe in an easy going lifestyle, stress is not as much of a problem as boredom. In a more stressful low income society, boredom would not be as much of a problem

[Zilal]

I don't think much about fun... that's kind of a modern idea... but I think playfulness is a good concept. It's an essential part of being human and also of having a healthy relationship with the world. Total seriousness is artificial.

[notoppings]

I've never had fun vs. work conflict. I enjoyed the work so much the hours didn't matter much. I went into my career not expecting to make much, not caring as long as I liked the work, and I ending up making a good living.

I did what I wanted to do in that career, now I'm switching to something much different. I like to keep learning, stretching myself. To me, that's what will make my new career fun, even knowing that I will have to work very hard and make only a fraction of what I used to make.

When I hear about people who hate their work, I figure they made their choices.

I also had very little trouble in finding enjoyment in my work. The thrill of a new challenge everyday new conflicts. I thrive on conflict. lately I've realize that the challenges are the same the conflicts just the same old thing presented differently. So in order to get the fun back I'm rebooting, starting another business, this will be my fifth to date, I'm enjoying the hunt once again (location, traffic flow, licenses, permits, inventory supply lines, leases, training new people, grand opening). Oh the headaches! oh the joy!! this is the place that I enjoy the most, conflict resolution, challenging new ideas. Maybe I'm not cut out for complacency I will probably always need the thrill of possible failure to keep the fun in work.

[mkay]

Hey, I'm like that, too. Many people will never understand, because they're afraid of change and the chance of failing.

A few years ago, I joined one company over another and the guy I refused was upset because he'd gone out of his way to recruit me. He was a really nice guy, so I tried to explain: I took the other job because I like the possibility of failing.

[sriv]

Sometimes I just feel like I could be so much more productive doing other stuff than doing homework or projects. I feel like if I can conquer my need for recreation and break, I would not procrastinate as much as I do.

[fripping]

i'm sorry, fun? count me OUT. i conquered and gutted fun a long time ago. now i just whip myself. so much better than having fun.

[malefide]

The majority of my "work" (i.e. what I have to do) is also often supremely "fun" (i.e. enjoyable) to me. The majority of my work is also schoolwork, and in school I am studying the things that were hobbies/pass-times for me before university: linguistics, foreign languages, history, metalsmithing, literature, etc. So I'm rarely truly "burdened" by my work. Of course, it's nice to have a little variety in the things that I do for fun, so sometimes I'm tempted to procrastinate on my school projects for the sake of variety.





malefide added to this post, 0 minutes and 51 seconds later...

Total seriousness is artificial.

I agree.

[Rowan]

"According to research cited in Time magazine, stress is a major factor in many of the leading causes of death in the United States.(wikipedia (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.))" IMO boredom can easily be cured by happy reminiscence or daydreaming. Maybe in an easy going lifestyle, stress is not as much of a problem as boredom. In a more stressful low income society, boredom would not be as much of a problem

I was speaking subjectively, but fair enough.

[sriv]

Necro'ed!

I have more questions for all.

Do you consider fun an obstacle? This is pretty much the point of this thread.

I often have to battle against the choice of having fun so that I can get myself to do necessary homework.

Do you live for fun? (AKA Are you a hedonist?)

INTJs tend to be nihilists and nihilists tend to be hedonists. It is a pretty far-off connection, but it makes some sense.

On somewhat of a tangent:::
The Arts exist for the purpose of fun. Should society have more focus on the Arts? Should more government funding be provided for the Arts? No doubt that it is necessary, but my question is: Should it be proliferated?

I look at society today and I see it as one that has almost turned its back on the classical Arts and towards televised arts. Few people leave high school with the thought, "I want to be an artist." It is sad. Society is slowly turning away from old fun (aesthetics, portraits, actual art, and literature to a lesser extent) and towards new fun (TV, video games, computers [forums lol]).

I am asking all these questions and pointing out trends to show that society does not know how to have fun anymore. Evidence of this is that there is more need for therapeutics and people like Dr. Phil to make people feel better. The creative, emotional outlet that Art provides is slowly fading being replaced by "new fun" which is more like leisure.

[punkyplatypus]

I wouldn't say fun necessarily counteracts stress. When I go on a rollercoaster, join a heated argument with passion, or spend time with a girl I like, I can have fun with all of them and at the same time be stressed out by them.
If anything I think fun (happiness) would counteract boredom, sadness, and maybe anger. I personally do not think it's possible to conquer dependency on fun, but that's only from my view point. I'm thinking someone of a more simple culture (like the Amish) may be able to live without fun, but that's my definition of fun. Perhaps chores or milking cows or reading the bible are considered fun to them. With that, I do not think it is possible to conquer fun for most people. However there is one more circumstance that comes to mind: slavery. Can a master force a slave to experience a life void of fun? Could one be a slave to oneself and force his/herself to live a life void of fun? Again, maybe there are points in time, like sleep or a lightened work load, that the slave may consider fun. Even the person enslaved by his/herself may find it fun to accomplish such a study. Then again, maybe not. I'm undecided on the possibility of conquering the dependency of fun, but I'm leaning more towards the side of it being impossible.
As for personal experiences, I've been fortunate enough to have many "fun" experiences. As for work, it doesn't really conflict or counter my fun. The people I've worked with tend to have good personalities and keep the days interesting enough. As long as there's no drama, work may get boring but I've had plenty of fun work days.

[Fej]

I don't know what fun is. I enjoy video games, but other than that I do not know anything else that I consider fun.

[enfpchick]

I have FUN in everything I do !!! ;D

[sriv]

I have FUN in everything I do !!! ;D

Never mind what I wrote earlier, NFs tend to be the hedonists (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). Not that that is a bad thing, it is just not too good of a thing either.

[fonmaneal]

Fun is in the way you choose to preceive this group hunch we call reality.
In other words its all in your head.

[brad]

I don't think much about fun... that's kind of a modern idea... but I think playfulness is a good concept. It's an essential part of being human and also of having a healthy relationship with the world. Total seriousness is artificial.

Agreed. Playfulness is my "fun". I start feeling playful when I'm mentally stimulated-- whether by an intellectual challege, a social challenge, or a chance to break expectations. That's when I perform best and enjoy life most.


Do you consider fun an obstacle? This is pretty much the point of this thread.

I often have to battle against the choice of having fun so that I can get myself to do necessary homework.

Do you live for fun? (AKA Are you a hedonist?)

INTJs tend to be nihilists and nihilists tend to be hedonists. It is a pretty far-off connection, but it makes some sense.


Fun isn't an obstacle, work is the obstacle. Anything that prevents me from providing something useful to the world is work. If I'm being productive, at school (lol), a job (sometimes), or in a relationship (not anymore), I'm having fun. When I'm in a position where I can't apply or increase my competence in a field, I am doing work, something my body and mind are naturally disposed against.


On somewhat of a tangent:::
The Arts exist for the purpose of fun. Should society have more focus on the Arts? Should more government funding be provided for the Arts? No doubt that it is necessary, but my question is: Should it be proliferated?

The gov't shouldn't necessarily provide more funding for the arts, though that might not be a bad idea. The lack of aesthetic appreciation in our society is an effect of something, rather than a cause. A better role for the gov't might be to encourage more students to pursue creative outlets such as the arts.

Fun is in the way you choose to preceive this group hunch we call reality.
In other words its all in your head.

There's no group hunch, here. I'm an INTJ! I have my own hunch, and it's probably better than yours. :D

[sriv]

Fun isn't an obstacle, work is the obstacle. Anything that prevents me from providing something useful to the world is work. If I'm being productive, at school (lol), a job (sometimes), or in a relationship (not anymore), I'm having fun. When I'm in a position where I can't apply or increase my competence in a field, I am doing work, something my body and mind are naturally disposed against.


More often than not, when we seek to expand ourselves, it is accomplishing nothing useful to society, just to ourselves. Let's say that work is what each of us contributes to the economy and the government. If you go to a job that you are not good at to increase your competence in a field, then you would be having more fun, but weakening your work quality and input.


The gov't shouldn't necessarily provide more funding for the arts, though that might not be a bad idea. The lack of aesthetic appreciation in our society is an effect of something, rather than a cause. A better role for the gov't might be to encourage more students to pursue creative outlets such as the arts.


"effect of something rather than a cause."
Yes, but I am looking at the effect as a cause, to see what effects it will have.

[cdbrow1]

Good topic.

I really don't do "fun" as the rest of the world defines it. I work all the time. From 8-5 I am working at my job. From 5-6 I am working at the Gym (and not talking to anybody) - great stress relief by the way. Once I get home I am working on the house or on solving some work on the computer (usually video game related). Sometimes I will watch TV, but usally just while I am eating or tyring to sleep.

I am happy and relaxed, but I don't need to drink, go to clubs, take cruises or or other time wasters.

[Airfire]

This is indeed a very thought-provoking topic to delve into. I thought I may as well give my perspective on "fun", for I come from a different perspective and back round on the topic. As a current Game Design student, I had to literally take a class on Theory of Fun (if that made you laugh, you are not alone). This class has opened up a part of my brain, and thinking in general, I did not know existed. Being an INTJ, I may have analyzed this inside and out, but I have still failed to generate an algorithm for fun per se :) Anyways, here's my summed take on it:

A perception of what is considered fun is often highly individualized; some people may find one thing deemed merit while another may find it atrocious or the supposed opposite of fun, boring. This notion stems from the branches of cognitive theory. From which, I have learned that, despite personality type, humans in general are hard-wired to "chunk" information after having identified a particular pattern (by chunking, I am referring to how the brain handles information on a plethora of topics: reasonable yet sustainable portions). Once a pattern has been identified and applied many times, it becomes boring.

Herein lies the dilemma: we humans dislike tedium but crave predictability! Tedious tasks or methods are boring or become so over time. Though we crave predictability (subconsciously) we also like unpredictability, for it changes pace in seemingly mundane aspects in life, but only through controlled situations. However, unpredictability means new patterns and ways to learn, therefore, it's also fun. Confused? Basically what I am getting at here is that fun doesn't necessarily pertain to a limited activity, such as work or even leisure for that matter, but in the underlying aspect of it: patterns, patterns, and more patterns...
As an INTJ, I have discovered that I find fun in things that are interesting, plus solving problems or attempting to generate patterns through innovative thought. So, think of fun this way: being open-minded and gifted individuals [INTJ's] we can find "fun" in the innovations that are permitted by most standardized thinking.

To answer the original question of the forum, I find fun in my work at most times and could not be happier with my career choice. Sure, I could have been one of many other professions (architect mostly) based on my personal preferences, but I chose Game Design for it is so much "fun" to make games (controlled instances of "fun") for other people to enjoy-- Is it just me, or is choosing a career based on how much fun I have at making fun paradoxical?

Do you consider fun an obstacle? No, I don't consider fun to be an obstacle. Even though I am a relatively serious person, my internalized sense of fun is different than what most people would consider it to be.
Do you live for fun? No, but again I find life easier to cope with through my own unique, individualized perceptions and ideals rather than those of mainstream society.
Art?, I could argue that the essence of much art is forcing us to see things as they are rather than as we [instinctively] assume them to be. Thus, I fully support government spending on the arts and it most definitely needs to be proliferated in its more traditional forms, which have sadly been lost in this digital age of ours.

I like everyone's responses thus far; they are all unique in their own way. I am curious if anyone has their own "theory of fun" or can build upon my take on it. I could go on and on about this, heh.

(New to the forums, but I feel no formal introduction is needed)

[sriv]

A perception of what is considered fun is often highly individualized; some people may find one thing deemed merit while another may find it atrocious or the supposed opposite of fun, boring.

I like everyone's responses thus far; they are all unique in their own way.

I've let this rest on my mind.

Is this the MOST individualistic aspect of ourselves?

It seems that people are bound together by what their interests are and what they have fun doing.

[Smacknrat]

Christ... Have none of you lived/played with any SP (or NP.. sans INFP) types?

That's fun...

[sriv]

Dear Fun,
It's always looked up for us. But I'm afraid it's more complicated than that.
You see, I'm a goal/task-oriented person, and you, you're just psychological relief. A distraction, like alcohol. I'm becoming dependent on you which I cannot let happen.
I know you saw it coming. With me hanging out more and more with willpower.
Don't worry too much though. I'll go insane if I don't see you every now and then. I hope we can still be friends, just not boyfriend-girlfriend.

[Seppuku Savant]

I don't know what fun is. I enjoy video games, but other than that I do not know anything else that I consider fun.

Same here. I participate in activities that take up my time. Are they "fun", I have no idea.