Hjordis
09-09-2010, 04:22 AM
In the synthesia test thread (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) it came up whether relating space with time is synthesia, or is a very common feature in human minds. Masterpeach and I discussed this a bit, the discussion(quoted below) mostly revolving around language, and decided it would make a good new thread.
2, relating space and time isn't synthesia, it's a human trait. Nearly all(I won't say all, as I don't claim to know about all languages in existence, but this has been studied, and I've read about it at least twice and noticed it in languages I study) languages use space words to refer to time. Some languages use DIFFERENT space words than others, but space words nonetheless. This suggests a strong correlation in the human mind between space and time.
Did you know that some African languages do not know times? All they know and express is "present".
(And to me "long ago"=!"far away". I can recall 2D pictures of the past into the present (my RAM) - I think that's more efficient than involving a 3rd dimension.)
Yes, now that you mention it, I think I HAVE heard that before. Still, I never said it was all-prevalent, and I believe it's common enough that I don't think it can be grouped with synthesia. That's evident enough in all the people(okay, maybe 3 max not including myself) in this thread that said they've researched synthesia and don't identify at all, but could identify with the space/time relation. I suppose now that it's part of our languages(or not) it might be more cultural than hardwired(with exceptions, like, I assume, you, on both sides), but it had to have originally come from something. Actually, the relationship doesn't necessarily equate "long ago" with "far away," though I think it often does. More "behind you" or "above you"(whatever your language may use, and I use "you" generally here.) Out of curiosity, does this also not apply to you?
One thing I'd like to reiterate is that not all languages use the same direction words. As masterpeach pointed out, not all languages even have a concept of time. I can't find this where I thought it was, so I'm a little fuzzy, but I think it was some aboriginal language(s) uses up as the past and down as the future. I could have it mixed up, but it was definitely vertical. English, on the other hand, tends to think of time as a horizontal line. [Something before you can be either a physical object(space) or an event(time). Oddly enough the same word can refer to both the future and the past(this happened before). I'm not sure how that fits in, and it's making me dizzy so I'll leave that to someone else.] I think this difference between languages is somehow significant. It suggests that this connection in the language developed separately more than once, rather than during a time when only one language was spoken(if there ever was such a time). Though a culture first had to have a concept of "time," once that was there the words picked to describe it were directional words(counterexamples?), suggesting a connection in the mind.
I did also find this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)book. I haven't read it, but now it's on my list of books to read. I only read enough of the preview to make sure it was at least slightly related to this discussion since I'm tired, but I'll read the rest after I sleep.
I guess my goals with this thread are mainly 1. determine just how common it is that people relate distance and time, not just in their language but in their mind(see poll. distance means, for example, that 5 years ago seems further away in space than 3 years ago), and whether or not distance is necessarily a factor in this. and 2. general discussion of space and time being connected in the mind, the points brought up, and any other evidence outside the real of language that might exist.
Please excuse my large wall of text(to me. They always seem long and rambly but then look short.), and if I missed anything important bring it up.
2, relating space and time isn't synthesia, it's a human trait. Nearly all(I won't say all, as I don't claim to know about all languages in existence, but this has been studied, and I've read about it at least twice and noticed it in languages I study) languages use space words to refer to time. Some languages use DIFFERENT space words than others, but space words nonetheless. This suggests a strong correlation in the human mind between space and time.
Did you know that some African languages do not know times? All they know and express is "present".
(And to me "long ago"=!"far away". I can recall 2D pictures of the past into the present (my RAM) - I think that's more efficient than involving a 3rd dimension.)
Yes, now that you mention it, I think I HAVE heard that before. Still, I never said it was all-prevalent, and I believe it's common enough that I don't think it can be grouped with synthesia. That's evident enough in all the people(okay, maybe 3 max not including myself) in this thread that said they've researched synthesia and don't identify at all, but could identify with the space/time relation. I suppose now that it's part of our languages(or not) it might be more cultural than hardwired(with exceptions, like, I assume, you, on both sides), but it had to have originally come from something. Actually, the relationship doesn't necessarily equate "long ago" with "far away," though I think it often does. More "behind you" or "above you"(whatever your language may use, and I use "you" generally here.) Out of curiosity, does this also not apply to you?
One thing I'd like to reiterate is that not all languages use the same direction words. As masterpeach pointed out, not all languages even have a concept of time. I can't find this where I thought it was, so I'm a little fuzzy, but I think it was some aboriginal language(s) uses up as the past and down as the future. I could have it mixed up, but it was definitely vertical. English, on the other hand, tends to think of time as a horizontal line. [Something before you can be either a physical object(space) or an event(time). Oddly enough the same word can refer to both the future and the past(this happened before). I'm not sure how that fits in, and it's making me dizzy so I'll leave that to someone else.] I think this difference between languages is somehow significant. It suggests that this connection in the language developed separately more than once, rather than during a time when only one language was spoken(if there ever was such a time). Though a culture first had to have a concept of "time," once that was there the words picked to describe it were directional words(counterexamples?), suggesting a connection in the mind.
I did also find this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)book. I haven't read it, but now it's on my list of books to read. I only read enough of the preview to make sure it was at least slightly related to this discussion since I'm tired, but I'll read the rest after I sleep.
I guess my goals with this thread are mainly 1. determine just how common it is that people relate distance and time, not just in their language but in their mind(see poll. distance means, for example, that 5 years ago seems further away in space than 3 years ago), and whether or not distance is necessarily a factor in this. and 2. general discussion of space and time being connected in the mind, the points brought up, and any other evidence outside the real of language that might exist.
Please excuse my large wall of text(to me. They always seem long and rambly but then look short.), and if I missed anything important bring it up.