Grasping the difference between introverted and extroverted functions

[Marcus]

I've not entirelly grasped the difference between introverted and extroverted functions. Can someone explain the difference?

My (quite fuzzy) understanding is the following, so far:

Sensing: I have no clue what's the difference between extroverted and introverted sensing. How can sensing be introverted, anyway?

Thinking: Introverted thinking is thinking through something logically. Extroverted thinking is arranging your thoughts when you communicate (speaking, writing). For example, I tend to sort out things only when I speak about them or write them down, while they are quite fuzzy when still inside my mind. I have found the ENTPs and INTPs tend to be better in following logical deductions (e.g. in math), while I have to build a deduction up for myself to be able to understand it. On the other hand, extroverted thinkers might be better at explaining something logically.

Intuition: Introverted intuition is when we associate things that are already inside our mind. Extroveted intuition is associating things in the outside word. But I don't really understand the difference.

Feeling: Introverted feeling is when we experience our and others' feelings but do not show them. Extroverted feeling is when we show our feelings. Or: introverted feeling is understanding/handling our own or someone else's feelings, while extroverted feeling is knowing how to show our feelings to others, i.e. making an effect (manipulating?). This would imply that extroverted feelers are not so good in understanding/evaluating/handling their own emotions, while introverted feelers are not so good in showing them.

So, what's your take on it?

The other question is why do we have only 16 types? For example, why there is no TeSiNeFe (abberated ESTJ with extroverted feeling)? Or why we can't have Fi & Fe in one person?

[Haphazard]

I at least know the difference between introverted and extroverted sensing, so I may be able to clear that one up. Introverted sensing is comparing things sense to things that you have had previous experience with. Such as, you see something in the ground by a building, but it doesn't look like a fire hydrant, so you assume that it's not a fire hydrant because it's unlike any other fire hydrant you've seen before. Extroverted sensing is processing the here and now.

It's a little like:

Si: Notice that a dish at a restaurant tastes different than it usually is

Se: Enjoys the dish as is

Ni: Thinks it needs more peppers because it would be ideal with more peppers

Ne: Finds it amusing that if there was no broth it'd be considered stew instead

[Motor Jax]

everyone has all 16 traits

its a test to see which 4 are most dominate in an individual

[Haphazard]

everyone has all 16 traits

its a test to see which 4 are most dominate in an individual

Well, there are eight traits... and because each of them can go backwards and forwards there are 16 types.

Everyone uses all the processes. Some sites say that there are certain archetypes as to how these are set up. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. may help you with your understanding, though some of the descriptions are short and incomplete.

[Motor Jax]

yes, 8 original traits that were founded among individuals by the Greeks

but then they also noticed that there was something else

and it wasn't until the discoveries by Jung and Kiersey that took it even further

[Haphazard]

yes, 8 original traits that were founded among individuals by the Greeks

but then they also noticed that there was something else

and it wasn't until the discoveries by Jung and Kiersey that took it even further

Link, please? Or at least an explanation.

[Marcus]

Well, there are eight traits... and because each of them can go backwards and forwards there are 16 types.
I did not get how this backwards/forwards moving gives 16.

Following your link I have found a nice table showing the remaining 4 functions as shadow processes:
[URL="To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts."]

[Haphazard]

I did not get how this backwards/forwards moving gives 16.

Following your link I have found a nice table showing the remaining 4 functions as shadow processes:
[URL="To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts."]

Well, you have an INTJ and you have an ISFJ. They both have the same line of processes, but they're exactly reversed.

INTJ: Ni, Te, Fi, Se, Ne, Ti, Fe, Si

ISFJ: Si, Fe, Ti, Ne, Se, Fi, Te, Ni

If you have eight possible lineups but you have them both one way and the opposite, you get sixteen. You have four processes and two ways for each of them to go. 4x2x2=16.

[Marcus]

If you have eight possible lineups but you have them both one way and the opposite, you get sixteen.

That's ok.


You have four processes and two ways for each of them to go. 4x2x2=16.
I don't get this 4x2 part. Four processes with two ways to go would be 4^2.





Marcus added to this post, 5 minutes and 44 seconds later...


To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. may help you with your understanding, though some of the descriptions are short and incomplete.

Thanks for the link. I have found some nice descriptions there. How did they derive them? Is it based on observations only, or is there some kind of science in the background, like an understanding of brain functions?

[Haphazard]

I don't get this 4x2 part. Four processes with two ways to go would be 4^2.

Okay, we have 4 processes. S, N, T, and F.

We also have two directions for each of these processes to go -- that'd be introverted and extroverted. Si, Se, Ni, Ne, Ti, Te, Fi, and Fe.

The first two processes, which make up the 'meat' of the MBTI name -- the NT in INTJ, for example -- each come in two combinations, and this combination decides the arrangement of the rest of the functions. A 'rational' function (T or F) has to pair up with an irrational function (S or N), and an introverted function has to match up with an extroverted function. Therefore, we have 16 types. NiTe (INTJ), TiNe (INTP), NeTi (ENTP), TeNi (ENTJ), NiFe (INFJ), FiNe (INFP) NeFi (ENTP), FeNi (ENFJ), SiTe (ISTJ), TeSi (ESTJ), TiSe (ISTP), SeTi (ESTP), FeSi (ESFJ), SiFe (ISFJ), SeFi (ESFP), FiSe (ISFP).






Thanks for the link. I have found some nice descriptions there. How did they derive them? Is it based on observations only, or is there some kind of science in the background, like an understanding of brain functions?

This is pretty much theory with some observation thrown in for giggles. It can't be trusted upon to be reliable, but it is pretty damned interesting.

[BlackHawk]

Haphazard's examples were great, but I'll try to add a little more.

Sensing: I have no clue what's the difference between extroverted and introverted sensing. How can sensing be introverted, anyway?

Se is "living in the moment," not really considering past and future, just the present. The present is defined by Se as what one is detecting via the five senses. So "this soup tastes good and is hot" is Se. There is no thinking "Oh, soon the soup is going to be cold" or "I wonder what the cook put in it." Just the realization that the sensation of eating the soup is pleasant.

Si is comparing the sensation of the current moment with the sensation of past moments. I really liked Haphazard's example for this one. Noticing that the sensation of the soup's taste is different from how tasting the soup used to be typifies Si. I like to think of Si as indexing sensations as they occur, then when any sensation is encountered, Si checks the index to see how it compares to the past, and notes a difference or makes a "new entry" as necessary.

Where Se is a "present" function, Si is a "past" function.

Thinking: Introverted thinking is thinking through something logically. Extroverted thinking is arranging your thoughts when you communicate (speaking, writing). For example, I tend to sort out things only when I speak about them or write them down, while they are quite fuzzy when still inside my mind. I have found the ENTPs and INTPs tend to be better in following logical deductions (e.g. in math), while I have to build a deduction up for myself to be able to understand it. On the other hand, extroverted thinkers might be better at explaining something logically.

I think you're really close here. Also, you could say that that Ti is holding the problem inside one's head and scrutinizing it and analyzing it internally. Te is writing a speech based on the idea, or teaching it to someone else.

Intuition: Introverted intuition is when we associate things that are already inside our mind. Extroveted intuition is associating things in the outside word. But I don't really understand the difference.

This one is more vague.
Ni is usually considered the closest process to the subconscious. It is making connections that the conscious mind might not see, but the connections just rise into consciousness when Ni is used, resulting in strong "hunches" without necessarily enabling the person to explain where it came from.
I don't understand Ne as well either, but I usually consider it to be making connections externally, not in the subconscious. So if Ni is the subconscious tying knots under a handkerchief and the conscious mind just pulling them out from underneath, Ne is consciously tying a knot in full sight.

Feeling: Introverted feeling is when we experience our and others' feelings but do not show them. Extroverted feeling is when we show our feelings. Or: introverted feeling is understanding/handling our own or someone else's feelings, while extroverted feeling is knowing how to show our feelings to others, i.e. making an effect (manipulating?). This would imply that extroverted feelers are not so good in understanding/evaluating/handling their own emotions, while introverted feelers are not so good in showing them.

You're a little off here.
Fi is taking feelings (emotional responses, not sensations) inside and looking at them in one's mind. For example, if someone insults another, Fi is the insulted one internalizing the situation and realizing the feeling of sadness or indignation on the inside and realizing that it exists.
Fe is being insulted and crying (an external reaction) because it is so emotionally upsetting.

[Ilikepepper]

My understanding of Fi is that it involves staying true to your values and ensuring that your behaviour and thoughts are consistent with your inner perception of yourself. domFi people are very sensitive to people who are NOT being true to their inner selves - so we pick up on incongruent or insincere behaviour. Fi says it's fine to be the person you are because you have implicit value. Fi hates generalising because that comes at the expense of individuality.

Fe is the observation of social rituals, being kind to others and helping others, no matter what you may feel inside. It is the generous function and can be exhibited at the expense of self. Fe says it's fine to try to improve other people if it will result in that person being happier. Fe is warm compared to Fi. Fe is also great at telling people off when they suck.


I find the distinction between Ne and Ni quite fuzzy, so feel free to pick the following apart...

Ne is the making of connections and recognition of similarities between disparate objects, words or events. When someone is punning and following a random train of thought, they are using Ne. With Ne, you can always trace the train of thought back to the starting idea because each linkage is rooted in something concrete.. even if the concrete things have only the most tenuous of connections. Ne is a horizontal function - lots of possibilities are explored at the expense of depth.

Ni, from what I've read, is more of a projective function. So it is not necessarily anchored to anything tangible. Instead it takes a thought, and using thought power, continues to take that thought to its conclusion. Thus it is almost like foresight. Ni is a vertical function - each possibility is explored with great depth, but it doesn't cover the same ground as the madly skipping Ne. Ne is the irritating wild-child sibling of Ni. :-)

[Marcus]

Where Se is a "present" function, Si is a "past" function.

Ok, then maybe it is the same for N:
Ni is comparing the sensed experience with patterns already inside the mind (past experience), and Ne is just getting a new pattern from the outside world.


This one is more vague.
Ni is usually considered the closest process to the subconscious. It is making connections that the conscious mind might not see,

I would say that making connections is conscious (for Ni-s, at least), but hard to verbalize. Thinking function is easier to repeat verbally.


but the connections just rise into consciousness when Ni is used, resulting in strong "hunches" without necessarily enabling the person to explain where it came from.

For me, hunches seem to come from Fi.


You're a little off here.
Fi is taking feelings (emotional responses, not sensations) inside and looking at them in one's mind. For example, if someone insults another, Fi is the insulted one internalizing the situation and realizing the feeling of sadness or indignation on the inside and realizing that it exists.
Fe is being insulted and crying (an external reaction) because it is so emotionally upsetting.
It still sounds a bit vague. There were some other good examples at the link given by Haphazard.

Regarding the order of different functions, I have found something interesting at the site Hh. suggested to check out:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
According to the following, INTJs are rather NiTeNeTi, than NiTeFiSe.

"The same functions as the dominant and auxiliary in the opposite attitudes are the third and fourth most developed. For example, if the dominant and auxiliary are Fe and Si, then the next most developed functions would be Fi and Se. Ne, Ni, Ti, and Te are less developed. The only ordering that appears in the bottom four is that frequently the inferior function is last, that is, if the dominant is Fe then Ti would be the least developed."





Marcus added to this post, 43 minutes and 9 seconds later...

My understanding of Fi is that it involves staying true to your values and ensuring that your behaviour and thoughts are consistent with your inner perception of yourself. domFi people are very sensitive to people who are NOT being true to their inner selves - so we pick up on incongruent or insincere behaviour.

I think that Fi might be more general than "just" a people oriented process, but its role is probably more prominent in people oriented decisions. You can have (bad/good) feelings about places, for example.


Fi says it's fine to be the person you are because you have implicit value. Fi hates generalising because that comes at the expense of individuality.

I'm not sure whether it is the Fi process that hates generalizations.


Fe is the observation of social rituals, being kind to others and helping others, no matter what you may feel inside. It is the generous function and can be exhibited at the expense of self. Fe says it's fine to try to improve other people if it will result in that person being happier. Fe is warm compared to Fi. Fe is also great at telling people off when they suck.

Then it can be categorized as a "present" function, too. You observe the need and you want to act upon it. While with Fi, you compare with past experiences.

I did not catch how the observation of social rituals should come from Fe. I know ENFPs who do not really observe social rituals, but they are quite self sacrifying.


I find the distinction between Ne and Ni quite fuzzy, so feel free to pick the following apart...

Ne is the making of connections and recognition of similarities between disparate objects, words or events. When someone is punning and following a random train of thought, they are using Ne. With Ne, you can always trace the train of thought back to the starting idea because each linkage is rooted in something concrete.. even if the concrete things have only the most tenuous of connections. Ne is a horizontal function - lots of possibilities are explored at the expense of depth.

Ni, from what I've read, is more of a projective function. So it is not necessarily anchored to anything tangible. Instead it takes a thought, and using thought power, continues to take that thought to its conclusion. Thus it is almost like foresight. Ni is a vertical function - each possibility is explored with great depth, but it doesn't cover the same ground as the madly skipping Ne. Ne is the irritating wild-child sibling of Ni. :-)

So Ne would be a "wild" creative associating function, while Ni would be an associative function used for a specific puprose. A bit vague, but there might be something in it.

[Haphazard]

Well, Ni, like Si, is a comparing function -- but unlike Si, which compares things to things that have been perceived in the past, Ni compares things to an ideal. It can be seen as 'future looking'. Because we cannot see what is 'ideal' to the person with the Ni function, though, and likely neither can the person themselves, how they reached this conclusion is somewhat of a mystery. People with Ni as one of their main functions have to back up their perceptions with evidence, and people who lead with Ni (INTJ and INFJ) are often considered 'crackpots' because they see and compare the present to things that don't exist.

Ne is like Se in that they both function in the present. However, Ne, instead of looking at directly what's there, automatically puts together patterns and trends -- for example, going beyond that everything at a restaurant tastes like crap but rather going to say that everything at a restaurant serves tomatoes with every dish that includes tortillas.

...I think I may be hungry with all these food comparisons.

Either way, extroverted irrational functions (S or N) make someone a P or "perceiving" type because this sort of information gathering is open-ended, making it difficult to narrow things down to exactly what one wants. Introverted irrational functions may make it easier to make judgments (hence, J, or "judging") but will often leave out room for changes, and in their search for closure can end up close-minded.

[Ilikepepper]

I did not catch how the observation of social rituals should come from Fe. I know ENFPs who do not really observe social rituals, but they are quite self sacrifying.
Fe seems to come from whatever social rituals are present in the outside world, because those social rituals generally are there to make people get along with each other. So if society says it's good to give gifts to your neighbour on their birthday, the Fe person observes this ritual and enjoys doing so. If society says this is completely taboo, the Fe person observes this ritual and enjoys not doing so. Fe is 'whatever makes the other person feel good in the end'. It is very 'other' focussed.

All types have some degree of Fe. Also, if a person values 'self-sacrificing' as part of their persona, then in the act of self-sacrificing, they are actually expressing Fi using an Fe concept. That's how I like to have to both ways, anyway.

Or possibly, if you self-sacrifice to allow another person to express their inner values and selves, you serve their Fi. Fi is selfish to a point, but it also likes to see other people remain true to themselves.

Well, Ni, like Si, is a comparing function -- but unlike Si, which compares things to things that have been perceived in the past, Ni compares things to an ideal. It can be seen as 'future looking'. Because we cannot see what is 'ideal' to the person with the Ni function, though, and likely neither can the person themselves, how they reached this conclusion is somewhat of a mystery. People with Ni as one of their main functions have to back up their perceptions with evidence, and people who lead with Ni (INTJ and INFJ) are often considered 'crackpots' because they see and compare the present to things that don't exist.

I love this definition!

I was thinking about N in the context of comparisons between Se vs Ne as well - Se accepts the outer world as it is. Ne builds upon the outer world by adding connections and noticing patterns Similarly, with Si vs Ni - Si looks to the past for its expected patterns (and thus notices when something does not follow a pattern), whereas Ni looks for patterns to use in the future.


Either way, extroverted irrational functions (S or N) make someone a P or "perceiving" type because this sort of information gathering is open-ended, making it difficult to narrow things down to exactly what one wants. Introverted irrational functions may make it easier to make judgments (hence, J, or "judging") but will often leave out room for changes, and in their search for closure can end up close-minded.

Ha, yes, this is currently at work here - I'm ready to accept another 90 definitions of Ni to get to its true essence.

[Haphazard]

Ha, yes, this is currently at work here - I'm ready to accept another 90 definitions of Ni to get to its true essence.

Well, what I'm saying is just a distilled version of what I've been able to gather from what I've read.

If you want more on Ni, there's a very, very long article on the Jungian archetype of INTJ: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.************************/showthread.php?t=28164

Because INTJs lead with the function Ni, there's a good sized chunk of it dedicated to just Ni.

I know it says INTPcentral, but don't be afraid, you've got to trust me on this one. It gives a different sort of understanding than the other sites I've looked at. It helped a lot with my understanding of it, anyway.

[Ilikepepper]

Ah, SolitaryWalker/Bluewing! Lots of my understanding of Ni comes from his INFJ profile on MBTIc. It's worth a read, seeing as INFJs and INTJs are so closely related through domNi.

[Haphazard]

Ah, SolitaryWalker/Bluewing! Lots of my understanding of Ni comes from his INFJ profile on MBTIc. It's worth a read, seeing as INFJs and INTJs are so closely related through domNi.

I may have to give it a look.

A parody MBTI site (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) describes INTJ as the 'outside contractor.' Looking exclusively at leading and auxillary functions, INTJ, with Ni and Te yields a ruthless creature: Ni, led with a strong conviction as how to make things 'better' without deference to the past, and Te, which leads to ruthless, logical implementation of these ideas. Sometimes parody sites are more useful than the real ones -- they strip off the niceness of MBTI and give you a laugh, and the generalizations can help put together insights that aren't in other descriptions.

[nemo]

This is my understanding:

Se sees the apple.

Si sees the apple and compares it to a storehouse of past experience with apples, thereby attempting to see the "ideal apple".

To Ni, if every intuition is an apple, it attempts to compress it and squeeze it and remove all the pulp until all that's left is the juice, and it thinks, Ah, this is the essence of apples! and compares it to all the other apple juice it's found over the years.

If Ne finds an apple, it goes looking for the apple tree.

So Ni tends to be a bit more transformative, and Ne a bit more relational. Se a bit more about pure stimulation, Si is a bit more about impression.

As for the rational functions:

Ti, to me, is like pure mathematics. It is concerned with discovering all the logical implications of an idea, no matter how far away from the original idea they become.

Te is more like science, it's concerned with efficiency and what works over exhausting itself over all the unrealistic implications. It can also be about imposing logical structure upon the world (in the analogy with science, think of how experiments are designed -- total Te).

Fi is about values, principles, ethics, and self-analysis. It is highly introspective/self-aware, and concerned with *self* discovery and revelation.

Fe is slightly "mothering", and is concerned with the welfare of others around them. It's about interpersonal awareness, noticing social cues, and creates environments where others feel at ease. Often very warm.

I always think of Fi vs. Fe as analogous the difference between the "soul-searching," introspective feeling versus the "let's go to Africa and feed all the starving children" type feeling.

Interesting side note: well-developed INTJs and ENTPs, having Fi and Fe tertiary, respectively, have been called the "Idealist-like" Rationals. Their feeling, however, manifests itself differently: compare the immense introspection of an INTJ like Carl Jung to the social activism of an ENTP like Bertrand Russell.

[Marcus]

Ah, SolitaryWalker/Bluewing! Lots of my understanding of Ni comes from his INFJ profile on MBTIc. It's worth a read, seeing as INFJs and INTJs are so closely related through domNi.

Then I suggest you can check out his INFP profile, too:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.************************/showthread.php?t=25755

Another question: If Te is responsible for linear task scheduling, then how do you explain that people without Te are linear scheduler types? For example, ENFJs, INFJs, ISFJs prefer to do one task after finishing the other. Can Fe be used for linear scheduling, too?





Marcus added to this post, 52 minutes and 32 seconds later...


Fi is about values, principles, ethics, and self-analysis. It is highly introspective/self-aware, and concerned with *self* discovery and revelation.

Fe is slightly "mothering", and is concerned with the welfare of others around them. It's about interpersonal awareness, noticing social cues, and creates environments where others feel at ease. Often very warm.


I still think that Fi and Fe should be more generic than just people oriented functions. I like your description of Fi as something working with principles/values, as it points to a generic function. It can be a kind of parallel thinking. Instead of chaining ideas by deduction, it might assign values to them and then chains the values...I am lost here...

Further, I think that the difference between Fi and Fe should be similar to the difference between Ti and Te. Thus Fe should assigns values, as well, but operate with the contraints of the external reality.

If we suppose that Fi and Fe are generic functions, then it raises the implicit question: why they are more adept to handle people oriented problems than Ti/Te.

[Haphazard]

If we suppose that Fi and Fe are generic functions, then it raises the implicit question: why they are more adept to handle people oriented problems than Ti/Te.

Because they view things on a personal level. Being able to relate yourself to the world around you makes you better able to understand and handle people-oriented problems.

[Marcus]

Because they view things on a personal level. Being able to relate yourself to the world around you makes you better able to understand and handle people-oriented problems.
Ok, but then why are they inherently personal?

[Haphazard]

Ok, but then why are they inherently personal?

Well, the difference between T and F isn't inherently different when it comes to simple problem solving like 2+2 or not to put your purse on the top of the car and then drive off without taking it down. The differences between T and F only come into play when there are people involved. T functions hold the cold and impersonal view of the problem while F functions hold the sympathetic view of the problem.

Because F is inherently sympathetic and T inherently impersonal, it would likely be natural that T types would gravitate towards impersonal jobs and hobbies while F types would take more humanistic roles in society. It's only natural that people do what they're good at.

Or something like that.

[Marcus]

Well, the difference between T and F isn't inherently different when it comes to simple problem solving like 2+2 (...) The differences between T and F only come into play when there are people involved.
Do you speak about T and F people or rather about T and F mind/brain functions?

In general, I don't think that people think alike (i.e. we use the same functions to do a task) except in case of people related things, or that T and F functions work alike except in case of people related things.

Anyway, I don't know which function(s) is/are used for solving 2+2. And there seems to be a difference between F and T people regarding mathematical capabilities (as Nemo mentioned, Ti seems to rule in general, while Te might be good for combinatorics, and I wonder whether geometry is an F thing).

[Haphazard]

Do you speak about T and F people or rather about T and F mind/brain functions?

In general, I don't think that people think alike (i.e. we use the same functions to do a task) except in case of people related things, or that T and F functions work alike except in case of people related things.

Anyway, I don't know which function(s) is/are used for solving 2+2. And there seems to be a difference between F and T people regarding mathematical capabilities (as Nemo mentioned, Ti seems to rule in general, while Te might be good for combinatorics, and I wonder whether geometry is an F thing).

I mean the differences between people who have T or F as dominant/auxillary functions as opposed to tertiary/inferior functions. I mean that the differences of these people only show whenever there are other people involved in the decisions. For example, someone with T dom/aux would be less able to make considerate decisions or would not even think of the considerate choice in these decisions while someone with F dom/aux may try to bend over backwards for the same decisions to keep everyone involved happy while overlooking the choice that may have been more practical but would have ended up with a lot of bruised feelings.

With logic that's very simple and obvious there is not going to be a difference between T and F. In fact, with that, I'd think that the difference would lie in S and N functions.

The difference between maths, as in algebraic compared to geometry, are usually compared between left and right brain dominance over personalized and impersonalized decisions.

[JMX]

The book Gifts Differing by Isabel Briggs Myers (yes, the co-creator of MBTI) has tables comparing the introverted and extraverted functions. Here is my summary and interpretation of her descriptions:


Extraverted Thinking (Te):
- Relies on objective facts outside the thinker as the decisive factor.
- Abstract ideas have less importance.
- Focuses on details, including irrelevancies.
- Goal is the solution of practical problems, planning programs, developing formulas, etc.
- May be overwhelmed by facts, smothering their meaning and paralyzing the thinking.

Introverted Thinking (Ti):
- Relies on the abstract idea as the decisive factor.
- External facts are used as illustrative proof of the abstract idea.
- Focuses on similarities, dismissing irrelevancies.
- Goal is formulating questions, developing theories, yielding insight, etc.
- May neglect facts that don't support the idea.


Extraverted Feeling (Fe):
- Serves to make the individual always feel correctly (conventionally.)
- Adapts the individual to the objective situation based on the customs and conventions of the environment.
- Finds value in the collective ideals of the community.
- Goal is the formation of harmonious emotional relationships.
- May suppress the personal standpoint entirely.

Introverted Feeling (Fi):
- Guides the emotional acceptance or rejection of various aspects of life.
- Adapts the objective situation to the individual by excluding or igonoring the unacceptable.
- Finds value inside the self from inner appreciation and abstraction.
- Goal is the fostering of inner emotional life and outer realization of inner ideal.
- May find no objective fulfillment or outlet for expression.


Extraverted Sensing (Se):
- Values the object sensed rather than the subjective impression of the object.
- Impression is of concrete reality.
- Leads to concrete enjoyment of things.
- Attention is focused on the strongest stimulus.
- Develops a pleasure-loving outer self.

Introverted Sensing (Si):
- Values the subjective impression of the object rather than the object itself.
- Impression is subjective, arising from some meaning or significance of the object.
- Leads to ideas through archetypes rather than physical reality.
- Attention is directed by inner interests. Other stimuli may be ignored.
- Develops an eccentric and individual inner self. May appear irrational to others.


Extraverted Intuition (Ne):
- Uses inner understanding in the interests of the objective situation.
- Aims to change the objective situation.
- Searches for emerging possibilities in outer objects.
- Finds self-expression natural and easy.
- Finds value in the initiation and promotion of new enterprises.
- Needs a developed judging function to complete its activities.

Introverted Intuition (Ni):
- Uses the objective situation in the interests of inner understanding.
- Aims to change the subjective understanding of the objective situation.
- Searches for new ways of viewing and understanding life.
- Finds self-expression difficult.
- Finds value in the interpretation of life and promotion of understanding.
- Needs a developed judging function to express visions and to put them into practice.

[Marcus]

The difference between maths, as in algebraic compared to geometry, are usually compared between left and right brain dominance over personalized and impersonalized decisions.
It is possible that T is in the left hemisphere while F is in the right, that could equate the two.

[Haphazard]

It is possible that T is in the left hemisphere while F is in the right, that could equate the two.

I don't think that's right. It may be true that certain types may trend to favor certain sides of the brain, but I highly doubt that it divides that cleanly.

[JasonM]

Everyone has different experiences and has read different sources about the MBTI, so everyone has different conceptions about the various types and functions, and it's usually the case that when two sides argue about types and functions, they simply argue past each other. Nonetheless, in my conception, mathematics is an intuitive pursuit. I am a feeler, and I have always excelled at mathematics, even at the university level. When I'm solving a mathematical problem and the answer hits me, I get an "aha!" feeling, where everything just fits together. If that isn't intuition, then I don't know what is. However, everyone does math differently and some people may not get that feeling when solving a problem. Regardless, mathematics is a very abstract science, and, under my conception, intuitives are better at abstract thinking than sensors. But that's just my conception - there really are no right answers.

[Marcus]

I agree that intuition is necessary for abstraction. I know an INFJ who was on pair (if not better) than NTs in highscool math, which is applied math. On the other hand, when it comes to proving new theorems, or following long proofs that you have in advanced math, then it's hard to beat INTPs. Also, I knew some guys who won math competitions and they were all INTPs.





Marcus added to this post, 8 minutes and 53 seconds later...

I don't think that's right. It may be true that certain types may trend to favor certain sides of the brain, but I highly doubt that it divides that cleanly.

I just tried to generalize my high school experiences. There was a feeling type guy (probably SF) who was faster in solving geometry problems than STs, NTs and the INFJ guy, while he was usually slower than the rest of us in other fields (he was also very good at drawing). Also, I was a way faster than others in combinatorics, while I did not really like classic geometry, (but coordinate geometry was ok).