(Especially) INTJ females, are you accussed of being a b____?

[cutekoala]

Recently, a friend accussed of this- I'm not the perky, chatty girly type but I try to blend in as much as possible with other girls...but it never works out, I usually find myself beign ostracised- does this also happen to you? On a holiday with 3 other girls during which I again found myself being excluded a lot- the accussation of being 'too negative' resurfaced again, as did my one friend's assessment that is she 'didn't know me she would think I was a bitch'....I found this really upsetting, but I've been given a lot of this same fedback since adolecence, and for me as a female I feel like it stems from societal predudice against females that are not girly, perky and giggle at every given oppurtunity that I seem to get shoved out by other girls so often...INTJ females, do you agree with this?

What upsets me is that when I find myself amongst girls that are predominantly girly, chirpy, attention seeking types, they usually decide at one stage or another that they want nothign to do with me, and shut me out...and yet, somehow I'm always left with this feeling that its in some way my fault, or that I must just be a bad person....but its usually the same accussations(s), i.e being 'negative' or basically the conclusion is drawn that I'm a bitch because I don't cry at silly chick flicks or enjoy spending hours makign smalltalk/talking about bullsh__ like what cake I just baked three hours ago...O.K, rant over.

My main point is, I'm tired of being called negative/ a bitch for dumb reasons liek the ones above, when I swear I'm a much kinder person deep down than the majority of girly, self-adoring women I've met who see to care more about forming cliques, talking about THEMSELVES and shutting other people out than anything else.

Is it possible for an INTJ woman to be herself without being accussed of being a heartless pshyco b____?!

I ask this in all seriousness!

[Silverity]

I've never been accused of that by someone who didn't know me. People typically describe me as quiet, thoughtful, shy, confident, etc. Nothing really negative. Some I'm wondering if you could be a bit more specific about your social behaviours. I don't do any of the things that you do either, but I've never experienced whiplash for it. You might be hanging out with the wrong girls =P

[floramacivor]

You might be hanging out with the wrong girls =P

I agree - could be the people you're with. I've never been accused of being mean, but people do sometimes think I must not like them because I'm aloof, even though I have nothing but feelings of goodwill for them.

[Synamon]

girls that are predominantly girly, chirpy, attention seeking types, they usually decide at one stage or another that they want nothign to do with me, and shut me out...

the majority of girly, self-adoring women I've met who see to care more about forming cliques, talking about THEMSELVES and shutting other people out than anything else.

Why would you care what people who you described above think of you? Why would you want to hang out with people like that in the first place? Branch out and look for friends across gender lines and outside of cliques.

As to the question, a few people (males and females) have called me a bitch. Since I thought they were idiots or assholes, I didn't much care what they thought of me. Usually I'm described as intimidating.

[masterpeach]

Why would you want to hang out with people like that in the first place? Branch out and look for friends across gender lines and outside of cliques. Usually I'm described as intimidating.

Agree - sounds like this type of girl is not what true friends (of an INTJ) are made of. But I have to admit that even my best friend and I had our power struggles. She accused me of some bad things, but never called me a bitch (more "selfish", "self-absorbed" and stuff like that. That's what my parents called me, too.) Mostly people who can't handle me call me "intimidating" or "tough-minded".
Edit: I was excluded from a girly girl clique just the other day, too (ESTJ+ESFP+ISFP). So, welcome to the club ...:nice:

[LadyInHeels]

I think people often find me intimidating and I probably can be slightly bitchy to men who are overly forward, but I always try to be a lady about it. I'm not outright evil ;)

[ChocoboWrangler]

Both sexes have called me a bitch. I am quite sure I'll hear it multiple more times in my life too.

Most people that have called me this have had two things in common.
1) They didnt like the brutal honestly of the things I had to say.
2) I didnt care what they thought.

The people that truly care for me know Im not a cold hearted bitch, and who cares about anyone else?

[GouldFan]

Never! :rolleyes: I never get called that between my good friends and family. If I am in charge of a project, I am ruthless against people that do half-assed jobs. They might have called me all kinds of names, but I don't have any use for them. I agree with others about hanging out with the right kinds of people. It really does reduce the amount of frustration that you'd get from people that don't appreciate your presence.

[Feral]

People who don't know me don't say so.
But the people I'm closest to know so.
'Bitch' used to be my nickname. Not because I'm necessarily mean, but I never say something just because someone wants to hear it, and most people don't like the truth about a lot of things.
The ones who stick around are people who value this in me, 'bitch' is not derogatory from them.
The ones who don't stick around because of it- I couldn't care less!

[Distance]

Three of my nearest and dearest friends are ENTJ, ESTJ and ENFP. None of them are stereotypical giggling women. All are relatively blunt, assertive and confident, preferring honesty over tact, although the ENFP is a little more gracious and societally aware. They're also all relatively successful within their fields of expertise and have been considered "bitches" since they refuse to be moulded to their surroundings, rather having a strong sense of self.

It's time to pick better friends, ones who can relate and understand you.

[Athene]

What upsets me is that when I find myself amongst girls that are predominantly girly, chirpy, attention seeking types, they usually decide at one stage or another that they want nothign to do with me, and shut me out...and yet, somehow I'm always left with this feeling that its in some way my fault, or that I must just be a bad person....
In my case, honestly, I would have shut them out a long time before they did me. I have never enjoyed being around girls like that. I'd rather be alone.


Is it possible for an INTJ woman to be herself without being accussed of being a heartless pshyco b____?!
Maybe. Even my daughter, whom I love dearly, accuses me of being "mean". It's just that INTJs tend toward blunt honesty, and that surprises people. I have never had a lot of tact, so unless people know I'm not trying to hurt them, what I say often can be misunderstood as hostile (it's NOT), just because I'm so direct.

I know you didn't ask, but I believe you can find girls/friends you relate to better than the ones you've mentioned; it might not be easy, but they are out there.

Added after reading post directly above mine: Yeah, what Distance said. ;)

[smashy]

Recently, a friend accussed of this- I'm not the perky, chatty girly type but I try to blend in as much as possible with other girls...but it never works out, I usually find myself beign ostracised- does this also happen to you? On a holiday with 3 other girls during which I again found myself being excluded a lot- the accussation of being 'too negative' resurfaced again, as did my one friend's assessment that is she 'didn't know me she would think I was a bitch'....I found this really upsetting, but I've been given a lot of this same fedback since adolecence, and for me as a female I feel like it stems from societal predudice against females that are not girly, perky and giggle at every given oppurtunity that I seem to get shoved out by other girls so often...INTJ females, do you agree with this?

What upsets me is that when I find myself amongst girls that are predominantly girly, chirpy, attention seeking types, they usually decide at one stage or another that they want nothign to do with me, and shut me out...and yet, somehow I'm always left with this feeling that its in some way my fault, or that I must just be a bad person....but its usually the same accussations(s), i.e being 'negative' or basically the conclusion is drawn that I'm a bitch because I don't cry at silly chick flicks or enjoy spending hours makign smalltalk/talking about bullsh__ like what cake I just baked three hours ago...O.K, rant over.

My main point is, I'm tired of being called negative/ a bitch for dumb reasons liek the ones above, when I swear I'm a much kinder person deep down than the majority of girly, self-adoring women I've met who see to care more about forming cliques, talking about THEMSELVES and shutting other people out than anything else.

Is it possible for an INTJ woman to be herself without being accussed of being a heartless pshyco b____?!

I ask this in all seriousness!

Why did you go on holidays with people you don't relate to? I don't understand.

[Obs3ss3d]

I've been called "The ice queen" because I don't have the urge to purge my feelings about every single thing that happens in my life. Not everyone is going to like you. People who call you names behind your back, or straight to your face generally hate you. The question is, Why do you need to be liked and approved of by the "mean girls"?

[Booko]

When I was younger, yes I never fit in with the "girly girls."

Now I live in the South where direct females are even less appreciated than where I grew up in the Midwest.

I long ago decided to choose my friends accordingly and not waste my time on people who thought I should be just like them. It's too much energy to try to pretend you're something you're not. That doesn't mean I don't meet people halfway -- they shouldn't have to act like me either.

Never feel like you have to put up with people who insult you in order to have friends. If you do that, you'll miss the real friends in life.

btw, it does get easier as you get older.

[LifesEcstasy]

What you are experiencing is ingrained social conditioning at work. Where you either conform or others shun you. We all learn it in infancy and many practice it daily. I dealt with it by becoming friends with men, they don't particularly care that I don't watch TV or diet fastidiously or giggle stupidly at inane things. There are very few women who like me and I don't really care for most of them anyway.

If you are particularly wanting female friends then you'll just have to seek the few who'll find your dry humour entertaining. There are some. Personally most of my friends are gay men, I get along very well with them. Now that I am more comfortable with myself I find that even those who don't really like me still respect me. There's power in accepting yourself and not seeking approval.

[prowl]

Sure. Being a woman and not being a Feeler intimidates the hell out of western culture.
The way I see it, being called a b. isn't even necessarily an insult. It's just shorthand for saying 'this woman, who is direct and objective, challenges my stereotypes and intimidates me.' Therefore, when someone calls me a b. (directly or not), my response is: "Yes I am. And?"

[K27]

What you described is not new to me. But some of the above posters' advices are correct: don't hang out with them.

Try to befriend some T girls. INFP won't harm either. ENFP may sometimes be great friends. ;)

[Sonyab]

I agree with several of the posters here. I think it is a matter of craving acceptance--don't we all??? The problem is that you have chosen to crave acceptance from people who perhaps don't understand you and don't wish to make the effort. Cherish those people who come along and really "get you" and understand that it is okay if people don't like you--after all, you don't like everybody either.

[Athene]

Sure. Being a woman and not being a Feeler intimidates the hell out of western culture.
The way I see it, being called a b. isn't even necessarily an insult. It's just shorthand for saying 'this woman, who is direct and objective, challenges my stereotypes and intimidates me.' Therefore, when someone calls me a b. (directly or not), my response is: "Yes I am. And?"
I still consider it an insult. What I'd love to see is society accepting of women who possess all the qualities you named: direct, objective, non-stereotypical. And not have to resort to calling us a female dog in order to maintain what they perceive as the upper hand.