Alpha males

[acyckowski]

How many of you fellas out there would consider yourselves Alpha males?

I'll go first.

I'm most comfortable in the #2 position, but taking charge is not a problem.
Competitively, I'm more interested in the level of my performance and using this experience in future competitions than whether I actually win or lose.
Professionally, I tend to go about my business until incompetence arises, then I assert dominance.
Personally, I tend to go with the flow unless something needs to get done, then I assert dominance.
In peer interactions, I'll defer to anybody who wants the top spot, until incompetence becomes an issue. If nobody else wants it, I'll take it.
In family interactions, I'll defer to my wife on "her" role, dominate in "my" role, and leave the kids to their own devices until they screw up.

I've tested as a Type A/B personality previously...something about natural sense of authority without a real drive to "beat" anybody.

[ElstonGunn]

I don't know what "alpha male" means in this context, but based on what I always assumed it meant, I'd probably rank myself somewhere closer to "sigma male."

[spittingvenom]

I'm guessing you'll find more INTJ females that identify as Alpha.

[sriv]

Seriously, I am exactly as acyckowski described.

In fantasy, I am alpha-plus. We all wear grey.

[Metamorphosis]

I would.

But I tend to control more from behind the scenes than outright dominating people (I'm not an ENTJ, after all).

[notoppings]

Another vote for indifference. But based on the importance of the task, when incompetence rears it's ugly head I bring out the sword of decision.

[slut poacher]

in nature an alpha would be dominant amongst his own pack. the same is true of human males trying to position themselves at the top of the pecking order. both my brother and myself (both intj's) see this behavior as somewhat silly. we are both exceptionally intelligent (compared to the general populace) and very large and powerfully built. we do not feel the need to be the dominant males of our social circles. we liken ourselves to another example in nature "the apex predator", typically solitary with the ability to out-think and out-fight just about any challenger, makes lording over others seem unappealing and un-evolved. though as with the "apex" in nature, there have been instances where the "alpha" (top dog) has confronted the "apex" (grizzly) and has suffered for it.

[Metamorphosis]

Being an alpha male isn't all about dominating for one's own self gain. After all, being a leader is all about facilitating growth of the group's members through the preservation or order.

(drunk, so sry if this didn't come out as I intend)

[Solaris]

Well, I'm not a male, but I do like alpha males. This is different than liking "bad boys" or controlling jerks. I am highly attracted to genuine confidence.

[Antares]

I'm guessing you'll find more INTJ females that identify as Alpha.

It might have just been a defensive mechanism against the stereotypes of society. Personally, I have no problem with being 'alpha'. In school, after lunch, I hang out with a certain group of people (I have other friends, but I like my group better). They usually consist of an ISFJ, an IxTJ, an ENTJ, an ESTJ and occasionally an INTJ (all girls). If we have no direction as to what to do, I'm usually the one who 'saves' them from that state and make most of the decisions (most of the time, I drive my 'pack' to wherever's convenient to me, since they don't seem to have an opinion). That said, I'd happily be 'beta' or 'gamma' if I'm with a group of competent people. Better to save brain juice and indulge when someone does the 'charging' for you.

I do like 'alpha' males though. It's not that I like their position of power, but their confidence and ability to decide. I like their ability to be impersonal and logical.

[Alpha Prime]

I find the alpha status rewarding in more ways than I can list. To me, the barriers that come with being less than alpha are unacceptable.

[Antares]

Alpha Prime: Are there setbacks associated with being beta in your society?

[acyckowski]

Interesting tip on "apex predators," I'd never heard of them.

After all, being a leader is all about facilitating growth of the group's members through the preservation or order.
This is what I think of when I consider myself as "more alpha." Doesn't have to be a formal status, or recognized authority, just that guy or gal who keeps the trains running on time.

[Rowan]

Classifications like Alpha Male, particularly when applied to someone’s personality, are silly. We are agentive, conscious beings with a sophisticated and unique existential intuition, why adopt backwards patriarchal roles? This kind of reductionism (where you take perceived animal roles and assign them to humans) can only be used to justify static, tribal modes of behaviour and to avoid complex, cooperative solutions to the problems that invariably arise from complex human social interaction. At least, that’s my opinion.

[Zirka]

I'm an alpha female but I don't mind sharing if the other person is capable of performing to my standards (but few are so usually I lead).

In my group of friends, I'm one of the leaders (Our group tends to split along the lines of commuter/res) so I lead the commuters, and one of my best friends leads the res people. Because we commuters have more technical difficulties when it comes to making plans, I tend to often over rule her. (ex. No, we can't stay till 2am the subway closes at 1:30am) However, she balances out my I, by suggesting activities that I would normally dismiss out of hand (ex. clubbing), because she has a very strong E (I'm not good at typing people, but her E is so obvious)

In group work situations where I don't know the people as well I tend to assume the role of leader because usually the other people in my group lack the initiative to take control and there is also my need to do things the right way... i.e. my way.

[Epicurus]

I have what it takes to become one (if we should talk in these terms). So many people are insufficient in getting anything done or even to think in the pace I do.

Im so introverted tough, it both feels incomfortable and rather silly as someone said. I would prefer just to be strong in myself, confident, drag down my I and J a bit in the mud as those are annoying as I think mine are to high. If I would take the lead it doesn't matter, only what is best matters but then I sometimes have to be able to get into ''alpha-male-mode'' to make that happen.

I think an ENTJ might be the best person to fit me. I hate people who tend to be unsecure and ''lost'' including myself. If things get out of hand, to focused on controlling, to hasty, its just that you have to work it through, feels better than people that can't do shit or just babbles and act ''weak''. The usual ENTJ alpha-thingy, complimented by an INTJ thats not to E, I, P or J, feels in all ways right for my vision of how I'd like things, how people should act. Thats just my guess.

[dissident]

I'd say most INTJs aren't the true alphas, as the alphas are the public figures, and act a certain way that is perceived by others to be "alpha" ... INTJs are more like the shadow government people who really run the world. Any alpha dumb enough to mess with them will regret it, but usually it doesn't happen because of their low profile.

The "apex predator" analogy is basically what this is, though people are all different so classifying them all into catagories can be difficult. Much easier and more precise to use meyer's briggs to classify them.

[thod]

Aye INTJ's are not alphas. However their ego and need for competence wont ever let them admit that they are anything but the best at everything. INTJ's simply don't want to spend time dominating people. They are not that interested in social relationships. To a real alpha social relationships are everything. They spend their whole time plotting how to stay on top, rather than about doing things. If the INTJ does find themselves in leadership positions they hate all the bother of dealing with people. All the time they are coming at you, yak, yak, yak until you can no longer think straight. The INTJ is only too happy for someone else to take over so he can retire to the background where its quite and he can think.

[quaestionus]

I find myself relating with the OPer a great deal...

...the concept of "Apex Predator" sounds very appealing, though I am reluctant to assume credit for a position that I naturally regard so highly, without it being credited to me by another. (False humility? No, just caution against personal bias).

It does sound very INT, though... I can certainly related to it.

[futureperfect5]

I like the wolf version of the ALPHA phenomenon

Wolves have an alpha pair which takes care of the rest of the pack and as the alphas have the young, etc.

The hottest guys are wolf-style alphas .. wanting females alphas in their lives.:thumbsup:

I'm an alpha female but I don't mind sharing if the other person is capable of performing to my standards (but few are so usually I lead).

In my group of friends, I'm one of the leaders (Our group tends to split along the lines of commuter/res) so I lead the commuters, and one of my best friends leads the res people. Because we commuters have more technical difficulties when it comes to making plans, I tend to often over rule her. (ex. No, we can't stay till 2am the subway closes at 1:30am) However, she balances out my I, by suggesting activities that I would normally dismiss out of hand (ex. clubbing), because she has a very strong E (I'm not good at typing people, but her E is so obvious)

In group work situations where I don't know the people as well I tend to assume the role of leader because usually the other people in my group lack the initiative to take control and there is also my need to do things the right way... i.e. my way.

[Motor Jax]

i've never considered myself Alpha Male

yet i am always seeked out or followed

and i laugh at the ones that strut around like peacocks in season

[Alpha Prime]

Alpha Prime: Are there setbacks associated with being beta in your society?

I could give you a long list of why I'd rather be alpha, but, at the end, it all gets down to this:

"The lead sled dog gets the view; all the rest of the dogs get to see is ass.".

[futureperfect5]

I agree that the "public" traits are not typical of INTJ
yet, the work behind the scenes and the influence can be quite natural for intj

again, alpha-wolf definitely not the brawny, alpha-ape the influences through intimidation and brute force

I'd say most INTJs aren't the true alphas, as the alphas are the public figures, and act a certain way that is perceived by others to be "alpha" ... INTJs are more like the shadow government people who really run the world. Any alpha dumb enough to mess with them will regret it, but usually it doesn't happen because of their low profile.

The "apex predator" analogy is basically what this is, though people are all different so classifying them all into catagories can be difficult. Much easier and more precise to use meyer's briggs to classify them.





futureperfect5 added to this post, 6 minutes and 42 seconds later...

somewhere, I read that for intj leadership is subsequent to frustration over the poor quality of leadership and planning of those originally in charge. After experiencing the ineffective, bungling for a time ... the intj rises to sort things out -- not by choice, rather necessity

Being an alpha male isn't all about dominating for one's own self gain. After all, being a leader is all about facilitating growth of the group's members through the preservation or order.

(drunk, so sry if this didn't come out as I intend)

[Metamorphosis]

Aye INTJ's are not alphas. However their ego and need for competence wont ever let them admit that they are anything but the best at everything. INTJ's simply don't want to spend time dominating people. They are not that interested in social relationships. To a real alpha social relationships are everything. They spend their whole time plotting how to stay on top, rather than about doing things. If the INTJ does find themselves in leadership positions they hate all the bother of dealing with people. All the time they are coming at you, yak, yak, yak until you can no longer think straight. The INTJ is only too happy for someone else to take over so he can retire to the background where its quite and he can think.

Nice generalization. There are actually INTJs out there who focus on social relationships and enjoy dealing with people in a leadership role.

[ethsar46]

For me, in a business/professional world im fairly dominating. I dont mind telling co-workers how things should be done etc etc. Especially the ones i dont have any respect for, which unfortuantly (you should note im in the public service) is a decent amount of people around here.

Socially, im very subdued however.

[rwyatt365]

Hmmm, interesting. I would not consider myself to be the alpha-male. I am neither intimidating in stature, nor in demeanor. Neither do I stand above "the crowd" in terms of recognition, or impact. In real life I would probably be overlooked and unnoticed for the most part. My work, and influence is mostly behind the scenes - I tend to "hide in plain sight" for the most part.

That being said, I am not a "shrinking violet". I have, can, and do step up and take charge of a situation when I feel it's necessary to get something back on track. My modus operandi generally though is to offer "helpful suggestions" to those that crave the spotlight so that incompetence and stupidity don't screw things up too badly.

I have no issue with being the "trusted advisor".

[deepFlow]

The only thing I would want from Alpha-Maleness would be the sexual privileges...

[hauteur]

Lots of people tell me I'm an alpha. Sometimes I feel like one, sometimes I don't. Oddly enough, the better mood I'm in the more I feel like an alpha.

[ShaiGar]

I'm no alpha, I don't have the external willpower to force myself on anyone. That said I refuse to follow anyone for reasons that are not profitable for me.

[Aronnax]

I'm as alpha as I need to be.

If the group has good leadership I'd rather let him/her lead and deal with the emotional crap that people refer to as "conflict resolution". If the leader is incompetent I'll take charge or move on because I absolutely cannot handle being associated with incompetence.

[PreyingMantis]

Aye INTJ's are not alphas. However their ego and need for competence wont ever let them admit that they are anything but the best at everything. INTJ's simply don't want to spend time dominating people. They are not that interested in social relationships. To a real alpha social relationships are everything. They spend their whole time plotting how to stay on top, rather than about doing things. If the INTJ does find themselves in leadership positions they hate all the bother of dealing with people. All the time they are coming at you, yak, yak, yak until you can no longer think straight. The INTJ is only too happy for someone else to take over so he can retire to the background where its quite and he can think.

I agree. Society seems to view very limited, superficial, (animal) ego-based things as signs of alpha-ness. How much do you think they value reason? How complex and fair is their sense of good decision-making if they can't even understand the power dynamics or the subtleties of the situation? INTJs don't tend to attend to the little social details if they do not mean much, particularly if they are very intellectualised without being so socialised. That means people will not like them no matter how much sense they make or how clever they are and people choose their leaders (in a kind of intellectually passive way).

I think the very concept of alpha males or females goes against the rationality that humans imagine separates them from the rest of the animal world. Do what is right, think for yourself, come to a consensus even if you must compromise unimportant things or do more research or take a chance if the decision must be made quickly, and you don't need a leader. The problem being: how many people are actually capable of this???

[NephilimAzrael]

An alpha male would not spend so much time deliberating whether they are alpha or not. It comes from an attitude you hold in life.

[Colette]

An alpha male would not spend so much time deliberating whether they are alpha or not. It comes from an attitude you hold in life.

In the animal kingdom 'alpha maleness' and 'alpha femaleness' seems to come from the genes - it's the natural leader that all the other animals defer to. I suspect it's the same in the human sphere - the alpha male acquires this position without even having to lift a finger; for some inexplicable reason he has the ability to get others to defer to him, and to attract women at a much greater rate than other males.

We recognize them early on, I think - they're in the centre of the group in the school playground, telling all the other kids what game they're all going to play.

[Kemmler]

I'm a loner, so in a way that makes me alpha over myself

[NephilimAzrael]

We recognize them early on, I think - they're in the centre of the group in the school playground, telling all the other kids what game they're all going to play.

I agree in part, alphas are recognized. However, in contrast to this, alphas in the animal kingdom, command respect without ordering, issuing orders is a beta function. An alpha is an alpha. No support required. Marks his/her own territory and defends only when attacked. Alpha males and females have numerous mates but only rear the young of their alpha mate. It seems rational to me."Big Man" (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.(anthropology))

[Monte314]

I usually end up in some kind of leadership in just about everything I do. But I don't want to be #1 most of the time, because I think it's more productive to be #2 in a lot of things than #1 in a few things. You only have so many bullets in your clip...

[RabbitEars]

I think the alphas are usually EXXJ. Other must learn the leader qualities. I have some charisma, but I am not very decisive (and a small cute blonde - NOT helps), and I often end up in the role of beta - a helper of a leader. I'm not proud of it - I'd prefer to be independent - so at least I try to choose my leaders carefully. It ends up disastrously if I don't respect a leader or he/she has less dominant personality than mine (because I am starting to take the lead then and not everybody likes it...)

[acyckowski]

I usually end up in some kind of leadership in just about everything I do. But I don't want to be #1 most of the time, because I think it's more productive to be #2 in a lot of things than #1 in a few things. You only have so many bullets in your clip...

That's a much better description than my original comment. Although I'm comfortable being #1, I'd rather be #2...I can simply get more done that way. Clearly not Alpha, could be Apex...

Thanks for all the discussion, when I posted I figured there was more to it than simple Alpha/Beta transactions...I really am curious about how this all plays out, since I'm not entirely clear on how the anthropological descriptions play out in the real world....

Thought question...could there be an A1 and A2 dichotomy? The A1 being the nominative leader, the A2 being the one who makes everything happen?

[intj5784]

lol my trainer was the first one to claim he was an alpha male. he said that dogs could smell his testosterone and were afraid of him haha!!! his height though may be the reason for his need to tell others about his alphaness. he is very short but is a well proportioned body builder.

[Amar]

I do want I want. If need be I manipulate people to do what I want. If I want to be in charge, I am because I am normally better prepared for the role than whoever else is around. Problem is, when I'm in charge, I feel responsibility for those I'm in charge of, and then my conscience interferes with my will to do what I want when I want.... so generally, I don't like to be the 'Alpha' male. I'm too selfish for it.

[127001]

Well, I'm not a male, but I do like alpha males. This is different than liking "bad boys" or controlling jerks. I am highly attracted to genuine confidence.


It's been said that it's actually the same thing.

Bad boys and controlling jerks exude similiar appeal as a genuinely confident, competent man because on many levels they come across the same way. However, the bad boys tend to be less mature and more negative. Insecure, negative-drawn women tend to gravitate towards these types because they, too, are less mature. But anyone else can see through it easily.

[Respondent]

Luckily, not everything that looks the same is the same. Many jerks and bad boys are beta because they are motivated by public opinion. The awe they receive from other immature idiots, both male and female, keeps them at it. That's not Alpha behavior.
However, I do not need to denigrate women who appreciate Alphas as merely immature because I recognize that there is something else to the notion of genuine confidence. It is not less mature to be attracted to fortitude and initiative over spinelessness.

[SShack]

I guess I'm sort of a rebellious alpha male (the influence of the P, no doubt). I'm the guy in charge who gets a thrill out of breaking certain rules.

I tend to be drawn to positions of leadership, but I look for smart people who are self-directed and not afraid to challenge me. I don't have much patience for folks who need to be ordered around. Does that make me an alpha who likes to incubate other alphas?

[changos]

Alpha male is a dangerous position both social and intellectual (also physical) so I struggle to appear low profile. Only my girlfriend - family should know and enjoy the benefits of this.

I've read about this in the past and it is linked with your testosterone exposure and current levels (read competitiveness). Real life scenarios put alpha males on sight for shooters, so there goes my first part of the answer (learn by watching other groups... how AM end up)

I now prefer to keep myself as low profile, hiding what I can do and what I can't do

[JustMel]

I'm guessing you'll find more INTJ females that identify as Alpha.

That is very much true in our house. My husband is my partner and he helps me with decisions but my decision whether he agrees or not is final. It is his home but it is my house.

He has no desire to be in charge so to speak. He is very passive for the most part. He can and has stepped up to the plate when I could not. We don't have those arguments over family that most couples seem to have because if I say I don't want someone here from his side of the family--they aren't here. He doesn't have a problem with my family because he knows that if they disrespect him I will kick them out.

We both have very strong viewpoints and expectations but usually they are the same rather than differing. I have had relationships where he "had to be" the alpha and they didn't work because I'm too rigid in some ways to allow someone else that control. A lot of our compatibility is that I can act and not feel guilty later. What good is a leader if he dwells on every death he orders? Not to say that a heartless dictator is a good thing either. There must be a balance between emotions and logic. I am good at turning off the emotion and looking at it from all angles and making a decision based on the analysis of all sides and averaging the what ifs and having contingency plans--he on the other hand is a swing first and ask later person and rides high on emotion.

[salsipuedes]

For most of my life I stepped up and led because so many people around me were incapable of making urgent decisions and carrying them out.

But I'm not an alpha and, in fact, I've always had terrible, destructive clashes with alphas. They go ballistic over any sort of independence, and want to dominate and crush. They demand bootlicking, curse their eyes.

I abhor alphas, men and women... which is why I work 1500 miles from the corporate office.

Fortunately, my husband and I found each other. He's no alpha, but he's as independent and decisive as I am, and he won't be "led." Thank goodness, he helped me walk away from leading. What a relief.

[acyckowski]

For most of my life I stepped up and led because so many people around me were incapable of making urgent decisions and carrying them out.

But I'm not an alpha and, in fact, I've always had terrible, destructive clashes with alphas. They go ballistic over any sort of independence, and want to dominate and crush. They demand bootlicking, curse their eyes.

Interesting and somewhat creepy parallel. My childhood/adolescence was spent with the "theater crowd," so I ended up getting frustrated and taking charge so we wouldn't spend our entire weekend talking about what we wanted to do. It worked out like this: somebody suggested an activity, aimless debate ensued, I got bored and announced what I was going to do, everybody got mad, then followed me.

All of my professional clashes as an adult have been with (insecure) alphas who insist on utter compliance. I'm wondering, then....assuming that the intransigent INTJ's aren't alphas, and vice versa, do the alphas overreact because they understand that there is a threat but can't grasp the nature of it? Or would Occam say that it's merely an example of alphas insecure in their position?

[SirJac]

I don't consider myself an alpha, but people often follow me anyways and try to put me in a leader position. It's still new to me, but I starting to grow more comfortable in the role though it's still not something that I'd seek out.

[zibber]

I don't consider myself an alpha, but people often follow me anyways and try to put me in a leader position. It's still new to me, but I starting to grow more comfortable in the role though it's still not something that I'd seek out.

Same here. I would generally avoid such responsibility, but I'm starting to see that I'm not entirely unsuitable for it.

[MrEPenguin]

I'm an alpha male, but I'm not like those alpha males who try to dominate every other male and every situation. I'm the kind of alpha male that is charge of certain situations and lets other alpha males have their own areas of control. I think its barbaric and a sign of retardation to see a need to challenge other alpha males for authority just because they happen to be alpha males as well. Every alpha male or female has their own right to their own sphere of influence and there isn't much of reason to challenge or try to destroy them just because they are doing what they do naturally.

[athiah333]

I'm not an alpha male, I don't like being a leader and I don't really make much of an impact on people around me. I'm more of an advisor to people who know me well (which I'm good at unless people ask for help in relationships when I feel like saying "Why the f**k are you asking me"). But anyway no I'm not an alpha male.

[alphawolf]

Being an alpha male isn't all about dominating for one's own self gain. After all, being a leader is all about facilitating growth of the group's members through the preservation or order.

(drunk, so sry if this didn't come out as I intend)

No, it came out exceptionally well.

This description is who I am.

I can spot the seeds of disruptive behaviour long before most, and I am not afraid of taking pre-emptive action - usually by planting the seeds of peer pressure and giving them water and sunlight, in a subtle but obvious way. In the face of apparent disruptive behaviour, I am able to quickly and decisively take action to stop it immediately. To simultaneously and forcefully block all other avenues of approach, but I always do in a way that leaves the person's honor and self-esteem intact.

Almost always, those who I have punished will come to respect me and I always encourage them to continue with the group and encourage the group to continue to accept them. I have only had to expel less than a handful of people in my life, and I truly felt worse about my failures to correct them than they felt about getting expelled. And the group knew it, too.

I dominate, but it's not for self-gain. Unless you consider that I also want to exist in an orderly group where I can advance my goals as being self-gain... In that respect, I consider myself equal to the other members of the group.

[Vagrant]

I certainly wouldn't say I'm an alpha male -- I really don't like to lead. But if nobody else will lead, or if the leader is making foolish choices, I will take over. I usually value the hard workers, ask the ones who aren't trying to shape up, and stop disruptive behavior before it can start.

Basically, I like efficiency, and can't tolerate insubordination. However, anybody proving competent will be rewarded.

But that's if I need to lead. If I don't, I'm content.

[Reckoner]

I wouldn't call myself the alpha male of my group, there are people whose personalities dominate alot more than mine, but whenever an important decision has to be made people tend to turn to me to make a decision for the group.

I will generally go along with what someone else in the group wants though, but if I see an obvious flaw another persons plan I will point it out and usually suggest a better option.

[alphawolf]

I certainly wouldn't say I'm an alpha male -- I really don't like to lead. But if nobody else will lead, or if the leader is making foolish choices, I will take over.

Basically, I like efficiency, and can't tolerate insubordination.


I take satisfaction from leadership, but I would agree that I do not usually have the conscious intent to enter any group and become a leader. Instinct, on the other hand, is a different story. As is being subjected to the control of a fool.

People who are never insubordinate do not, IMO, make good leaders. People who strongly believe in their own convictions and aren't afraid to act out of order now and then when they feel something isn't quite right (but still can't prove that it is unethical) have character. After all, strong leaders are needed for tomorrow.

[bladeserver]

I get what you say but how does this fit in with your other thread when you said

People who are never insubordinate do not, IMO, make good leaders. People who strongly believe in their own convictions and aren't afraid to act out of order now and then when they feel something isn't quite right (but still can't prove that it is unethical) have character

How do you differentiate between promising insubordination and disruptive behaviour?

I can spot the seeds of disruptive behaviour long before most, and I am not afraid of taking pre-emptive action - usually by planting the seeds of peer pressure and giving them water and sunlight, in a subtle but obvious way. In the face of apparent disruptive behaviour, I am able to quickly and decisively take action to stop it immediately.

[alphawolf]

I get what you say but how does this fit in with your other thread when you said

People who are never insubordinate do not, IMO, make good leaders. People who strongly believe in their own convictions and aren't afraid to act out of order now and then when they feel something isn't quite right (but still can't prove that it is unethical) have character

How do you differentiate between promising insubordination and disruptive behaviour?

I can spot the seeds of disruptive behaviour long before most, and I am not afraid of taking pre-emptive action - usually by planting the seeds of peer pressure and giving them water and sunlight, in a subtle but obvious way. In the face of apparent disruptive behaviour, I am able to quickly and decisively take action to stop it immediately.

By intuition and feeling; if I can sense whether there is any malice involved or not.

[Deliberator]

How many of you fellas out there would consider yourselves Alpha males?

I'll go first.

I'm most comfortable in the #2 position, but taking charge is not a problem.
Competitively, I'm more interested in the level of my performance and using this experience in future competitions than whether I actually win or lose.
Professionally, I tend to go about my business until incompetence arises, then I assert dominance.
Personally, I tend to go with the flow unless something needs to get done, then I assert dominance.
In peer interactions, I'll defer to anybody who wants the top spot, until incompetence becomes an issue. If nobody else wants it, I'll take it.
In family interactions, I'll defer to my wife on "her" role, dominate in "my" role, and leave the kids to their own devices until they screw up.

I've tested as a Type A/B personality previously...something about natural sense of authority without a real drive to "beat" anybody.

I know I'm not male but this is my exact leadership type. I have a fairly low threshold for tolerating others' incompetence though, so if the project is important to me I will assert dominance almost immediately if no one else does.

[ame]

Well, I'm not a male, but I do like alpha males. This is different than liking "bad boys" or controlling jerks. I am highly attracted to genuine confidence.
Very good point.

Something interesting about alpha wolves. If you are raising a family you are by wolf standards already an alpha.
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[radames]

Wow, this is so interesting because I have been used to skirting my power all through my life, purposefully, as to somehow strengthen the other person. It made me seem like a pushover yet somehow I was able be secure, tough, and resilient, even though I acted the other part so well that I was convinced of it.

Now I have been fulfilling my "quiet alpha" role mostly through hard work, focusing only on the most pertinent priorities, and eliminating distractions.

[Solaris]

Very good point.

Something interesting about alpha wolves. If you are raising a family you are by wolf standards already an alpha.
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Well, that stands to reason as I think only the Alpha couple in a pack reproduce anyway.

[Onotheo]

I find the alpha male attitude attractive in others but I wouldn't want that to apply to myself as it is just not my style. I think it's the Probing types that would qualify more for the epithet.

[ame]

Well, that stands to reason as I think only the Alpha couple in a pack reproduce anyway.
It was meant as humour for the parents on the forum. :rolleyes:

[dragonsscout]

Acyckowski summed me up pretty well. My basic stance in "Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown." I'll wear it if I have to or want to, but I'll gladly give it up when someone competent wants it or if I feel that I don't have to wear it. Being an adviser or number two is great. You can take charge on occasion, but there's not as much pressure.

[Nikita]

I'm a loner alpha...but I lack the tail...so to speak. :p

[Steel]

In the animal kingdom 'alpha maleness' and 'alpha femaleness' seems to come from the genes - it's the natural leader that all the other animals defer to. I suspect it's the same in the human sphere - the alpha male acquires this position without even having to lift a finger; for some inexplicable reason he has the ability to get others to defer to him, and to attract women at a much greater rate than other males.

I have to disagree with that. I don't know about humans, but among chimps, alpha rank is achieved through fierce competition and some cutthroat politics.

[Fanowene]

I am not male, but...

Well, I'm not a male, but I do like alpha males. This is different than liking "bad boys" or controlling jerks. I am highly attracted to genuine confidence.
I'd say most INTJs aren't the true alphas, as the alphas are the public figures, and act a certain way that is perceived by others to be "alpha" ... INTJs are more like the shadow government people who really run the world. Any alpha dumb enough to mess with them will regret it, but usually it doesn't happen because of their low profile.
I could agree with that. But then aren't we the true alphas, the ones who really lead? It seems easier to run everything from the shadows because that way you're avoid much of the crossfire and can concentrate on what has to be done.

Aye INTJ's are not alphas. However their ego and need for competence wont ever let them admit that they are anything but the best at everything. INTJ's simply don't want to spend time dominating people. They are not that interested in social relationships. To a real alpha social relationships are everything. They spend their whole time plotting how to stay on top, rather than about doing things. If the INTJ does find themselves in leadership positions they hate all the bother of dealing with people. All the time they are coming at you, yak, yak, yak until you can no longer think straight. The INTJ is only too happy for someone else to take over so he can retire to the background where its quite and he can think.
I hope I don't treat people that way. :anxious: But I can see how that could happen if an INTJ is insensitive.
Also, I wouldn't say INTJs aren't interested in social relationships. Just look at the "General Sociology" section of this forum... But it's true that I like to avoid clashes with other people. I'd rather devote my time, energy and brainpower to something else. If there's to much tension in the air, I normally step back, unless the issue is very important to me and I think I'm helping the situation by sticking through it and not just heating up the situation even more. I want everybody to calm down as quickly as possible so we can get on with business.
I also don't like to work with people who just refuse to do their job right or just don't get it for some reason. I also don't like working with people who waste a lot of time chatting about who-knows-what.
I do constantly evaluate my "position" in a group. If direct leadership is missing and no other leader is in sight, I will step up, provided that I am liked enough and I think people will respect me (which mostly is the case in the U.S.).

I like the wolf version of the ALPHA phenomenon

Wolves have an alpha pair which takes care of the rest of the pack and as the alphas have the young, etc.

The hottest guys are wolf-style alphas .. wanting females alphas in their lives.:thumbsup:
I imagine I'd like that too. :) I'm often attracted to leaders, or guys who get pretty close to it. I want somebody I can look up to, but I also don't want to be looked down upon.

Lots of people tell me I'm an alpha. Sometimes I feel like one, sometimes I don't. Oddly enough, the better mood I'm in the more I feel like an alpha.
I just recently got a recognition of leadership through my uni/job too. I was really surprised that they saw my work as being a "leader". But then again I can see why they viewed it that way. To me it just came natural, though. It was my job to coordinate the project, and I mostly worked alone except for asking for feedback/input/contributions from others whenever I needed it.

I'm as alpha as I need to be.

If the group has good leadership I'd rather let him/her lead and deal with the emotional crap that people refer to as "conflict resolution". If the leader is incompetent I'll take charge or move on because I absolutely cannot handle being associated with incompetence.
Same here, unless I think the struggle for leadership is too difficult. But then again that would mean that the current leader is somewhat competent.

An alpha male would not spend so much time deliberating whether they are alpha or not. It comes from an attitude you hold in life.
What would that attitude be? You can't be so inflexible as to not let another leader step up whenever he/she would be the better one. That would be inefficient...

Acyckowski summed me up pretty well. My basic stance in "Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown." I'll wear it if I have to or want to, but I'll gladly give it up when someone competent wants it or if I feel that I don't have to wear it. Being an adviser or number two is great. You can take charge on occasion, but there's not as much pressure.
The only problem I see with being a close #2 is that I might give too many suggestions to the #1, making it appear as if I was wanting to compete with the #1 or close to taking over and creating an unnecessary tension that way. If I'm #2, I have to make sure I keep as quiet as possible. I try not to make the current leader feel like I'm trying to take over his/her position.

[AliTree]

I'm guessing you'll find more INTJ females that identify as Alpha.

agreed. like moi.

[enWTFp]

I'm an Aleph-monkey then.

Seriously, why should we assume that such a model is valid, only because it is speculated before us? Why should I choose whether or not I belong in a set X, if there is no proof that this set is well-defined?

I find this category ridiculous. Sounds like Chuck Norris to me: if you are one, you always dominate, always lead, and blah-blah.

No such thing. Ups and downs. Hard work. There's no magic inside you.

I think people who believe they are Alpha-primes, Alpha-primates, or whatever, are vulnerable, and I have defeated such people many times. I don't believe in any absolute labels in this sense, and frankly, even just ladders and scoring systems are quite deceiving of what we really are.

[BlackCat]

I'm no leader. I like to give the leader in the situation advice on how to make the group go well, and it usually works. I don't have a problem with alpha persons, I actually enjoy being around someone who has a plan and knows what they want to do. As long as they are gentle about it and I agree on what we are doing also (keep this in mind alpha persons). I have a friend who I think is an ENTJ (supervisor to INFP) and he always has something he wants to do. He's great for when I have a day I feel like coming out of my room for a change. He realizes what I enjoy doing and tries to plan on doing things I will enjoy. The friendship works out surprisingly well.