Organic Products

[TheLastMohican]

What is your opinion about organic products?
Are there any valid reasons for using them?

[Moriarty]

Are you referring to herbal remedies and medecines, or something else?

[TheLastMohican]

Those would be alternative medicine. I am talking about things like organic foods (those that are not genetically modified and are not grown using pesticides and herbicides).

[brewmaster]

not grown using pesticides and herbicides).

Thats one of the greatest misconceptions. They can use those herbicides and pesticides that are produced from organisms that aren't modified. Just because they occur in nature doesn't make them good.

[TheLastMohican]

^ That is probably true. Now that I think of it, even shipments of ladybugs are used as pesticides, and that has no effect on the organic certification.

Here is the official USDA page where you can find all USDA Organic-related information:

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[spittingvenom]

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[Moriarty]

Poison Ivy is organic. So is rattlesnake venom. ;)

Anyway, yeah I misunderstood the question. Since I don't use those products, I'll exit the thread.

[TheLastMohican]

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Above is the official USDA sheet of pesticides and herbicides for use on organic foods. It covers the exceptions; Natural substances are normally allowed, while synthetic substances are normally prohibited. The substances on this list are those natural substances that are prohibited and those synthetic substances that are allowed.





TheLastMohican added to this post, 2 minutes and 43 seconds later...

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Funny article. It does exaggerate, but still funny. :)

[thod]

The scientific studies I have seen say that they are identical to non organic products. There is no increase in nutrition or health. If primary concern is the environmental impact of production then you may choose organic. But don't be conned into thinking an organic carrot is somehow a better carrot, a marketing ploy which is sometimes used.

[TheLastMohican]

The scientific studies I have seen say that they are identical to non organic products. There is no increase in nutrition or health.

In my experience it appears that the scientific studies are missing something. I do not know what the difference would be, but organic foods have a lesser tendency to cause bodily disharmony, at least in my family.

I know a number of people (mostly family members) who have various dietary restrictions that exclude dairy, gluten, tomatoes, etc. However, they are not bothered by organic dairy. It is not a lactose issue, so I do not know what makes the difference; But there definitely is one.

[thod]

I guess it could be pesticide residue, additives, processing etc. The labs would be careful to make sure they got a pure sample before measuring vitamin content, calorific values etc.

[TheLastMohican]

I never heard that organic foods are more nutritious, so I don't know why the studies would focus on that. It makes more sense that people use organic products to avoid possible harm from the substances used on non-organic foods.

[dandylion]

I don't think that organic foods are any more nutritious than the non-organic variety. The main difference is that they're grown differently using more environmentally-friendly methods (no pesticides, etc.).

And what do you mean by "are there any valid reasons for using them?" You make it sound like organic foods are bad and that we need a very good reason to eat them at all.

[thod]

And what do you mean by "are there any valid reasons for using them?" You make it sound like organic foods are bad and that we need a very good reason to eat them at all.

Organic produce commands a premium price over 'regular' produce. That differential has to be justified somehow. I would not pay $10 instead of $5 for a bunch of bananas without getting something for the extra cash. That may be a superior product, or the 'green' credentials of the product.

[TheLastMohican]

And what do you mean by "are there any valid reasons for using them?" You make it sound like organic foods are bad and that we need a very good reason to eat them at all.

I was getting at the same thing that thod mentioned. There is inherently a reason not to use them, because they cost more and are less efficient to grow. Therefore, if you do use them, you had better have a valid reason.

I do not believe they are "bad." While do not find it necessary to use them for myself, I still see that other people have valid reasons, and I may yet get one as well.

[dandylion]

Organic produce commands a premium price over 'regular' produce. That differential has to be justified somehow. I would not pay $10 instead of $5 for a bunch of bananas without getting something for the extra cash. That may be a superior product, or the 'green' credentials of the product.

Have you ever been to your local farmer's market? They actually sell organic food for affordable prices, usually cheaper than general supermarkets.

There's always the possibility of growing your own food (I have food growing in my backyard and frontyard... and some in the house). But I realize the flaws in this: Not everyone has the space/land to do this, nor the favorable climates to grow them in.

I was getting at the same thing that thod mentioned. There is inherently a reason not to use them, because they cost more and are less efficient to grow. Therefore, if you do use them, you had better have a valid reason.

I do not believe they are "bad." While do not find it necessary to use them for myself, I still see that other people have valid reasons, and I may yet get one as well.

You're right. Even if organic farming is environmentally friendly, it will may cause a lot of people all over the world to starve because of the low crop yield. But the thing is, people are already starving all over the world with conventional farming...

Here is an article that proves that organic farming can be as efficient or even more efficient than conventional methods:
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It also touches on a few other points I was going to expand on and brings up other good points, so I will not reiterate.

[celesul]

Eh, it's not bad if one can afford it. Really, we are all a bunch of guinea pigs. So far, there hasn't been any evidence that it's better than other food, but either locally produced or organic may or may not be better. I don't really care if my food is organic, but if any studies show anything, I'll pay attention. My family never wanted to spend the money, but my mom got diagnosed with cancer, so she's trying to eat more organic food (she's fine now though. It was a very small cancer ^.^). She figures that she doesn't want to be part of an experiment with that particular problem.

[thegnat]

I don't think that organic products are really that much superior to "inorganic" products health-wise. If anything it may benefit the environment more than humans by putting less man-made pesticides out in the environment. But as brewmaster pointed out, there could be 'naturally made' (perhaps extracted?) pesticides that they use for organic farming and they could still be harmful.

[chasintrail]

I don't buy organic so much as local. I shop at farmers markets during the season and am looking into joining a CSA this year. I'll also be puttin in a small garden out back. For me the reason I prefer local produce is that it tastes better. It wasn't picked under-ripe and shipped 1000 miles. I'm not overly concerned about the pesticide thing on produce. I haven't studied the GMO issue. I think that a lot of the fear of genetically modified crops is due to people not understanding the science. Similar to the clone hysteria.

Meat on the other hand I am picky about. I have a freezer with 1/2 a pig raised by a friend and I have 1/4 of a cow on the way. The beef is grass fed, no antibiotics or growth hormones. "Organic" meat if you will. The pork was raised on grain, no soy, no antibiotics or hormones. I'm currently trying to decide if it's worth the effort and cost to participate in a local cow share for raw dairy. The antibiotics and hormones that are necessary to keep an animal raised in a factory farming environment healthy and profitable aren't something that you can just wash out of the meat. I'd prefer not to put that in my body.

My greatest concern with most food is that it's not really food. I try to eat whole foods, stuff that I can identify exactly what it started out as. Not something out of a box with a list of chemicals in it that makes me wish I'd never taken a chemistry class.

[Hdier]

Therefore, if you do use them, you had better have a valid reason.

I greatly prefer organic foods (and 'alternative medicines') simply because of my morals combining with my cynicism. I do not like the way man is taking advantage of nature, so I am going to the opposite extreme because I hate people chopping down rain forests for a few houses and desks.

I think that, for the most part, nature got it right and that we should make advancements, but not at the cost of Mother Earth.

[TheLastMohican]

I think that, for the most part, nature got it right and that we should make advancements, but not at the cost of Mother Earth.

I agree. A lot of the things that prescription drugs are made for can be treated with regular plants, which are much cheaper and more abundant.

For example, UTI's are easily treated by a good-sized serving of cranberries. Food is not only good for the calories.

[athenian200]

I think that organic foods are no better than normal "processed" foods. In fact, I occasionally feel a little worse after eating organic foods than normal ones. From what I can tell, the things used in normal food only affect certain people adversely, and I'm not one of them. The USDA holds the artificial things used in food to fairly strict standards and test them carefully enough that I would be comfortable eating it, and I feel quite healthy.

Organic foods seem less flavorful compared to normal foods, and don't really seem different otherwise.

[notoppings]

Organic produce commands a premium price over 'regular' produce. That differential has to be justified somehow. I would not pay $10 instead of $5 for a bunch of bananas without getting something for the extra cash. That may be a superior product, or the 'green' credentials of the product.

Just thought you should know my friend works at a grocery warehouse on the banana dock when they get the fruit in (organic) it goes straight into a ripening room where it is gassed just like all the other fruit, kind of defeats the purpose of the organic supply chain. Also organic and non-organic fruit/vegies are often grown together (side by side) and always transported together if you saw what I and my friends see every day in food transport you would probably grow your own.





notoppings added to this post, 7 minutes and 45 seconds later...

I don't buy organic so much as local. I shop at farmers markets during the season and am looking into joining a CSA this year. I'll also be puttin in a small garden out back. For me the reason I prefer local produce is that it tastes better. It wasn't picked under-ripe and shipped 1000 miles. I'm not overly concerned about the pesticide thing on produce. I haven't studied the GMO issue. I think that a lot of the fear of genetically modified crops is due to people not understanding the science. Similar to the clone hysteria.

Meat on the other hand I am picky about. I have a freezer with 1/2 a pig raised by a friend and I have 1/4 of a cow on the way. The beef is grass fed, no antibiotics or growth hormones. "Organic" meat if you will. The pork was raised on grain, no soy, no antibiotics or hormones. I'm currently trying to decide if it's worth the effort and cost to participate in a local cow share for raw dairy. The antibiotics and hormones that are necessary to keep an animal raised in a factory farming environment healthy and profitable aren't something that you can just wash out of the meat. I'd prefer not to put that in my body.

My greatest concern with most food is that it's not really food. I try to eat whole foods, stuff that I can identify exactly what it started out as. Not something out of a box with a list of chemicals in it that makes me wish I'd never taken a chemistry class.

I agree with the meat statement have you ever gone to your county fair, I do whenever the FFA or 4-H kids present their animals later on they are up for bid per pound on the hoof also there is usually a butcher there who will work a deal with you for the kill and dressing of your animal it usually includes a small portion of the meat and the hide for the butcher and the rest for you usually no money involved.

[OneBadMother]

My opinion on organic foods is similar to my opinion on vegetarianism. I believe that organic farming is just an introductory step to sustainable agriculture, and I heartily approve the idea of sustainable agriculture. The world could use some efficient and effective resource use.

I don't go out of my way to eat organic food so much as I go out of my way to eat foods that I'm reasonably certain contain a minimum of dyes, artificial flavorings, corn syrup, and preservatives (like eggs). Checking this really comes down to reading ingredients lists. Of course, sometimes I could care less and eat Fruit Gushers and drink sodas and eat Pizza Hut, but that's only about 5% of my monthly diet.

Holistic medicine can be a crock (like magnetic chakra bracelets), but some herbal medicine might not be a bad idea, especially since bacteria become resistant to medicines that are overused. I'm of the school where you avoid medicines unless you're pretty much dying, but treating a cold with tea and soup's not out of the question.

[Victoria Silver]

Organic foods seem less flavorful compared to normal foods, and don't really seem different otherwise.

Interesting. My personal experience has been that organic produce tastes better than conventional produce. A matter of taste, I suppose.

[OddFactor]

Interesting. My personal experience has been that organic produce tastes better than conventional produce. A matter of taste, I suppose.

I agree. My local market is mostly made up of organic stuff than commercial so it's easier for me to find.

[Circe]

Again- not so much organic as local. We have a very large garden and grow most of our produce, we hunt, and I'm going to try to convince my parents to buy grass-fed meat from a local farm. We'll also be getting chickens soon as well- in the summer, my family's diet is actually largely self-sustainable.

I like the idea of organic foods, but believe that there is no reason to charge premium prices for organic produce. I also like organic and free-range meat, simply because it is much more humane for the animals.

[panda]

What is your opinion about organic products?
Are there any valid reasons for using them?

Real Organic products is vegetables (and its derivatives) plant in the virgin soil without any pesticide and using only organic fertilizer (such as decomposed leaves etc).
While those in the market usually not planted in the virgin soil, but they did not using pesticide and did use organic fertilizer. virgin soil means soil that never put an chemical fertilizer in it and never been used to planted of plant using pesticide (which is rare).
Pesticide did not dissolve in water after they reach the soil (so the soil keep containing the residue) and it stick to the plant after being spray to it, this could be washed from your veg food (if u wash 'em so bad) and the effect of such will slowly to be surfaced since it's depend on the amount of the pesticide residue you've take in whole of your life..
a pregnant mom suggested not eat this kind of veg, since further study tell it might be the cause of the baby carrying then being born with physically defect and also as the one accuse to increased the cancer percentage.
And also pregnant mom should not leave near the farms using pesticide. :blank:

concerning the pesticide effect, I think I'd go try those products. :)

[acrossthefourthwall]

Organic food is a refuge for those of us who are allergic to food-preservatives. And I'm really wary of chemical additives in the first place.