Talking About Yourself

[erniefernandez]

Hey! I'm new to the Forum. I like it here! I was reading the posts and I relate and would like to participate in your community! Yaaaaay.

That said, I have a question. Do any other INTJs (you folks) feel uncomfortable when people ask you to talk about yourself/sing your own praises? I love talking about what I think, but not my own virtues, even though I honestly do enjoy praise privately. It's a sign I'm doing well.

[Spartan26]

I'm an INTP but I've hated it all my life. I got really good early on turning conversation about the other person.

[Max T]

Hi Ernie (... Hi Burt... wasn't Sesame Street great! :D)

Yes I do feel quite uncomfortable with talking about myself, and am breaking into sweats as we type. Seriously, personal views and thoughts fine, but during say a job interview, I really undersell myself.

So why do we all freely talk about ourselves here?
My first thought upon visiting intjforum was "yikes you guys are self-centred... just me, me, me" but then I got hooked and started doing it too.

Guess the reason is due to the combination of relative anonymity and, at long last, meeting with like-minded people.
Like a weight taking off our shoulders.
(Notice how I switched away from talking about me to talking about anything but ;))

[rwyatt365]

If asked "What are you thinking", I usually say, "Nothing", not because my mind is empty but because they probably don't REALLY want to know what I'm thinking.

If asked, "Tell me about yourself", I answer, "...in relation to?". The gist of it being that I find it difficult to free-form a response to a vague question. Give me something specific to speak to and I can manage a decent response.

If asked, "What do you think about [fill in the blank]", I will give a short answer to discover if the person is truely interested in my thoughts, or just a platform for them to spout their ideas. If the formenr then I will go on. If the latter, I will shut up and let them spew.

[OneBadMother]

Argh, "What are you thinking" relates to my pet peeves. I'll share what I'm thinking if I'm ready to, and if I'm thinking I probably wasn't trying to pay attention to what you were saying. So "What are you thinking?" often comes at times when I have to listen to the sorts of people who ask that, so I have to pay attention to them too much to be able to think about anything in particular, leading them to suspect that I am a thoughtless person. I am not a thoughtless person, I simply can't concentrate with so much background noise. :P

[qwerty]

Yeah it does suck and I think the reason for talking about myself here is pretty much like what Max T said - Like Minded people.

I think most of us have been alienated from the rest of the population at some stage because of the way we think. It becomes demoralizing to talk about our ideas to people who either don't understand or can't see the depth of the ideas, so we begin to ask - if they don't understand something like that then how could they even comprehend my mind? Recently I tried to talk to someone about myself and whereas the person understood the general ideas I was trying to put across they couldn't grasp the level of detail I was trying to convey (there was a point to talking about myself - I don't do it normally and it didn't come naturally at the begining).

[jeffersonian]

I believe a resume to be a violation of the 8th amendment's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

Not only are you going to make me jump through hoops to act like I really want to impress you, you're going to make me document it? * :thumbsdown:

[TeleportThis]

Ugh. Yes, I hate doing this too, although mostly because I have trouble putting my thoughts into words when trying to answer a vague question for someone I don't really know.

[blueback]

If asked "What are you thinking", I usually say, "Nothing", not because my mind is empty but because they probably don't REALLY want to know what I'm thinking.

If asked, "Tell me about yourself", I answer, "...in relation to?". The gist of it being that I find it difficult to free-form a response to a vague question. Give me something specific to speak to and I can manage a decent response.

If asked, "What do you think about [fill in the blank]", I will give a short answer to discover if the person is truely interested in my thoughts, or just a platform for them to spout their ideas. If the formenr then I will go on. If the latter, I will shut up and let them spew.

I like this, it's just like an INTJ to categorize social interactions according to the level of response required :thumbsup:

I live by the idea "When in doubt, smile and nod." Most brief interactions can be handled with a simple "That's wonderful. I'll see you around."

Things like job interviews, on the other hand, I see as a trick. No one really cares what your answers to the questions are. After all, they have your resume right there in front of them and they pretty much expect you to come as close to lying about your achievements as possible without getting caught. I think what they are looking for is the impression of you they get when you answer the questions. If you are applying for a manegerial position, and they ask you about your leadership style, and you don't have a quick answer, they know you didn't prepare for the interview very well. If, on the other hand, you can bust out a quick, well crafted story about how you solved a particularly challenging problem at your last job, they will think you are well prepared.

Interviews, like dating conversations, are usually more about how you talk than what you say. It doesn't come naturally to me, but i've been trying to learn the rules by rote since I didn't internalize them automatically. Has anyone else noticed the same thing?

[bikerscars]

for interviews i've always just given the answer the interviewer was looking for...

interviews suck but i can ace them because it's so obvious what is expected as an answer

[Max T]

Interviews, like dating conversations, are usually more about how you talk than what you say. *
Completely agree- and adding to how you talk, body-language also counts hugely apparently. I concentrate too much on the facts and ensuring they understand the situation being described, rather than on actually selling myself with a shiny smile.

Same extends to resumes/ CV as with the interview- I struggle by giving too much cold evidence and not enough assertions of qualities (i.e. "I'm great") in the resume to spell out to them "yes I can excel in the role offered".
It's unfortunate how job recruiting focusses on our INTJ weakness (or at least dislike) for not singing our praises/ talking about ourselves!

What other parts of life require talking about ourselves? Therapy? others?

[phoenix]

What other parts of life require talking about ourselves? *Therapy? others? *

Dating?

[rwyatt365]

Interviews, like dating conversations, are usually more about how you talk than what you say. *
Completely agree- and adding to how you talk, body-language also counts hugely apparently. * I concentrate too much on the facts and ensuring they understand the situation being described, rather than on actually selling myself with a shiny smile. *
*
Same extends to resumes/ CV as with the interview- I struggle by giving too much cold evidence and not enough assertions of qualities (i.e. "I'm great") in the resume to spell out to them "yes I can excel in the role offered". *
It's unfortunate how job recruiting focusses on our INTJ weakness (or at least dislike) for not singing our praises/ talking about ourselves! *
...and that's why most of my post-interview, "dear-john" communications go like, "We were impressed with your credentials, but..."
Philistine heathens!! >:(

[generalowk]

I dislike talking about myself, and have a particular loathing of interviews. I've had my share, and I've gone through some very well-conducted interviews, and some positively wretched ones. Asking canned questions, and things like "what are your biggest strengths/weaknesses" is just a waste of time. The best interviewers I've encountered actually had unscripted conversations with me about other things (of course, some of these were job-related).

It doesn't help that you are normally quite nervous to begin with entering an interview. Add to that asking me questions that I am uncomfortable answering? That cannot lead anywhere productive.

[Evalis]

To Blueback: You hit that right on the nose. Interviews are more based on what the other person expects emotionally out of you than it is what they expect credentially. The fact of the matter is that most HR representatives couldn't tell the difference between a fully certified network administrator, and a computer illiterate college drop-out, because they assume that resumes are an accurate reflexion of that person's skills and abilities. They then go on to assume that your visibly expressed enthusiam and with the position and your ability to communicate in a manner they are comfortable with is a good determinant of your future work ethic.

Bah.. I know exactly what I'm supposed to say and how I am supposed to act.. but really, I'm too damned stubborn to submit to their incompetancy. Anyhooo... in other contexts.. no I don't really have any issues with talking about myself, the questions simply need to be specific, and - possibly just as important - relevant. Asking something as vague as "What kinds of things do you like" will cause me to blow a gasket.. But to ask me something like.. "Do you read books? What types? What was the last one?" will illicit a swift response, and probably a return of the same.

[thegnat]

I'm a good interviewee (people have specifically told me so) - but in normal conversation I *strongly dislike* talking about/bragging about myself. I'm extremely modest. I try and get off the subject quickly...

[deicruxified]

i don't talk that spontaneous unless i consider a person a friend. (in my dictionary, friend means having known that person for 7 years and we have a bond)

otherwise, here are my answers... usually i get them from e people...

1. "are you free this.." "we're having a party i hope you could attend."
- as much as i would love too but i'll try to fix my schedule. if i don't send you a message, it means i'm not coming (in most cases, i don't send a message)

2. for the "i-want-to-know-you-more" happy shiny people
- hmm... you're friends with ... right? i guess he/she told you about me... you'll know me eventually (i don't open myself to people without a direct relationship to any of my friends... i just find strangers weird blurting out such questions)

3. as for people asking to tell stories about previous relationships
- "it's the past...i don't want to talk about it anymore but i'll give you an overview"

4. the employment question -- selling yourself
- if you were reading my resume, it's too much information already but if you want to have things verified, then you may do so. --> i got hired with this retort coz most of the time, hr people do not read resume's and know nothing about the applicants so they reply, "really?" if they ask more questions i answer briefly. it's better to keep the mystery going than blurting out stuff and not knowing how you're gonna connect all of them...

as for achievements, some friends know deeply about a little thing about me. for instance, i buddy of mine knows that i am playing guitar because he's a blockmate in my music class but he knows nothing about other stuff about me like photography etc unless he's seen me done it.

[thegnat]

i don't talk that spontaneous unless i consider a person a friend. (in my dictionary, friend means having known that person for 7 years and we have a bond)

otherwise, here are my answers... usually i get them from e people...

1. "are you free this.." "we're having a party i hope you could attend."
- as much as i would love too but i'll try to fix my schedule. if i don't send you a message, it means i'm not coming (in most cases, i don't send a message)

2. for the "i-want-to-know-you-more" happy shiny people
- hmm... you're friends with ... right? i guess he/she told you about me... you'll know me eventually (i don't open myself to people without a direct relationship to any of my friends... i just find strangers weird blurting out such questions)

3. as for people asking to tell stories about previous relationships
- "it's the past...i don't want to talk about it anymore but i'll give you an overview"


I'm the exact same way with 1,2, and 3.

Someone gave me the Spanish Inquisition (at least it felt to me like) on 3. EVERY SINGLE TIME we talked. It annoyed the hell outta me. That didn't last long at all. I'm sorry but if you're going to ask that like when you've only known me for a day, that's not cool. And then they try to psychoanalyze me on relationships and why I've failed I just want to yell SHUT UP! at them. And the more uncomfortable I got the more he wanted to know why I was uncomfortable. And the more I wanted to yell SHUT UP! It's PRIVATE information ESPECIALLY for how long you've known me you PRYING bastard! This is a guy who wanted to date me....we don't talk anymore. I actually strongly dislike talking to him because of that.

[mind_wander]

I suck at this and repeating again, you can visit my introduction sections.

[OneBadMother]

1. "are you free this.." "we're having a party i hope you could attend."
- as much as i would love too but i'll try to fix my schedule. if i don't send you a message, it means i'm not coming (in most cases, i don't send a message)

I'll admit that gets on my nerves on the receiving end. So if you're coming you're sending a message, but if you're not you're not? That just creates unnecessary waiting on the other person's part to see whether or not you are coming. At the very least it's best to give a time-frame for when, if you were going to call, you would, and even then it's much easier simply to call and say, "Nah, I'm not coming." And if you don't want to go in the first place, you should just say it. :P

Unless it's a matter of saving your phone bill, in which case you shouldn't bother calling at all and just show up at said event at the appropriate time.

[thegnat]

well....I see your point but I also see deicruxified's point. Not to speak for deicruxified BUT here's my take:

If someone asks me that in a phone conversation:
I think, "Oh shit! This person's asking me to be social! Is it too much to ask?" And then reply with, "I'd love to go but I have to go check my schedule and see if I can make it." This gives me time to think about it. And then go "Do I have a valid excuse not to go/could I BS one?" Then I'll probably state my escape route - if you bring it up again if I'm indeed escaping. I don't like talking on the phone. So I try to limit usage. I probably won't be the one to call you if it's a no, if you call and you bring it up.. I'll give you my excuse.... I'll call you back if it's affirmative I'm going. I won't call you on maybes. This is a yes or no situation with the phone.

If someone leaves me a message on the phone:
If I don't want to go, I'll take your message but I'll pretend like I didn't hear it or I was super busy or something along those lines and didn't get it until too late...
If I want to go I'll respond immediately.

If someone IMs me about it:
I'll respond positively with a little maybe on it just to give myself flexibility if I really am interested in going but something might come up...
I'll pretend to get busy and not talk to them for awhile until I've had time to think about it and even then when I get back I'll hope it's not brought up if I don't want to go. or perhaps even for a maybe.

If someone e-mails me about it:
You'll get a definite yes if I'm going.
Most likely you'll get a maybe. That gives me more time (either to escape or plan to go) yet shows interest. I *might* have a chance at going then. It's not really high though. I probably have something else that's at least slightly conflicting with it.
You'll *never* get a direct no from me. I just won't respond.

[OneBadMother]

Crazy shifty INTJs. :P That's just about the only thing that's remotely exasperating about my INTJ friend. I called him to ask about watching a movie, and he said maybe, and that he'd get back to me. Then I called him again, and finally I just headed over to his dorm for an unrelated event, figuring that he'd be there, he was, I asked if he was up for it, and he said yeah. He seemed surprised that I'd bothered to bring the movie with me, but I figured that it wasn't that much trouble to me and it wasn't a huge loss if it didn't work out. I can't speak for him, but I think he actually did end up having a good time. We watched it with another guy and made fun of the movie almost the entire time. Maybe part of it is that he simply has a much stronger preference for face-to-face communication, or that he can't really escape a more decisive answer that way. It only really peeves me because whenever I take the time to bother with organizing something, it's because the person involved is important enough to me that I want to take that time for them.

[thegnat]

Crazy shifty INTJs. :P That's just about the only thing that's remotely exasperating about my INTJ friend. I called him to ask about watching a movie, and he said maybe, and that he'd get back to me. Then I called him again, and finally I just headed over to his dorm for an unrelated event, figuring that he'd be there, he was, I asked if he was up for it, and he said yeah. He seemed surprised that I'd bothered to bring the movie with me, but I figured that it wasn't that much trouble to me and it wasn't a huge loss if it didn't work out. I can't speak for him, but I think he actually did end up having a good time. We watched it with another guy and made fun of the movie almost the entire time. Maybe part of it is that he simply has a much stronger preference for face-to-face communication, or that he can't really escape a more decisive answer that way. It only really peeves me because whenever I take the time to bother with organizing something, it's because the person involved is important enough to me that I want to take that time for them.

hahaha I laughed because - I would do the exact same thing and have the exact same reaction when you brought the movie with you and probably enjoy it too.

See - the thing is if we're somewhat interested in doing something and/or there's someone coming into our place that we like and we don't want to offend, we are forced to say "what the hell? Why not try it? and anyway it might be fun, these people are people I like."

Of course he'd be surprised you brought the movie as well. I wouldn't expect someone to come to my room with a movie even if we'd talked about movies otherwise. Especially if it wasn't planned. How could you do something so spontaneous?

Of course he enjoyed it - we do like human interaction and it does make us feel good to have friends like that.

he just couldn't escape at that point - and was probably glad he didn't have an escape route. Then he could just relax about the whole situation. He doesn't have to think abou it anymore thank goodness! I can guarantee you he thought about it more than once after he gave you a maybe. And his response was OK for you, fantastic! And now he doesn't have to feel guilty about saying "maybe" and/or not going - because inwardly he knows he'd like it and he'd enjoy the time and perhaps he should take a chance and not be such a loner(I speak for myself here). I also don't like giving maybes. But they make me feel most comfortable. It's a way not to offend and to not to commit to a social situation. Still bothers me a bit though. These kind of decisions are uncomfortable for us to make. We'd rather be forced into them, honestly, the ones we'd like of course ;)

If that makes any sense...

[OneBadMother]

Hmm, you bring an interesting point. He does seem to be bewildered at times by what he thinks of as my spontaneous behavior, even though I don't see it as particularly unusual. :P

I guess that since he seems to like me well enough, I should grab him for some events like that more often. I just fear falling off the precarious balance between drawing him into things he'll end up enjoying and making him begrudge his time. I myself know that I don't like being pushed into things, so I tend to assume the same of people who are similar to me.

[mind_wander]

yeah, I do agree with her on this one. Yeah as for the guy, just take it one step at a time bring INTJ's to events, lol. Start off with social activities that INTJ's like to do, then work your way down. Funny how this sounds, it seems that INTP get really pissed off, darn it. Do I have make the first move for you in orderto move?; the answer probably a yes. My parents do this to me too, often being misunderstand. I know in their heart I am smart on the inside, outside[physically doing things] thats another story.

[thegnat]

I wouldn't suggest doing it to him every time you get a maybe from him. Show him you respect his space and decisions and stuff. But you can definitely do it more often. Especially if you know he has time - he can't refuse if he has the time (and he knows down deep he'll enjoy it) ;)

And if it's not *totally* out of routine for him either. I know this may sound weird. BUT

When someone wants me to do something at a time I'm used to either sleeping or studying or something, I don't really appreciate it. When someone wants to go to a movie at 1am even though I'm up I don't want to do it because I'm used to sleeping soon. However, we do give ourselves "me time" and "down time" in our routines. At least I do. To kind of sit back and think about things. It gives me flexibility in my schedule so that if my mind goes thinking about something random and I'm not on task I can get back on task decently. That's the time I wouldn't mind doing stuff. Plus it'd get my mind off things and it'd clear my mind of whatever I was thinking about anyway which would be a good thing.

And yes, we aren't very spontaneous. We are planned to the t....Spontaneity at times is foreign...

[deicruxified]

1. "are you free this.." "we're having a party i hope you could attend."
- as much as i would love too but i'll try to fix my schedule. if i don't send you a message, it means i'm not coming (in most cases, i don't send a message)

I'll admit that gets on my nerves on the receiving end. So if you're coming you're sending a message, but if you're not you're not? That just creates unnecessary waiting on the other person's part to see whether or not you are coming. At the very least it's best to give a time-frame for when, if you were going to call, you would, and even then it's much easier simply to call and say, "Nah, I'm not coming." And if you don't want to go in the first place, you should just say it. :P

Unless it's a matter of saving your phone bill, in which case you shouldn't bother calling at all and just show up at said event at the appropriate time.
though it would seem hurtful, yes most of the time i am also thinking about the phone bill... and most of the time i won't come. but i do think it's worst than saying yes then dropping that person in the end. i also do give a time frame for instance, if i don't send you a message before 3pm or a day before the event... etc... sometimes i also do something different like if i rang a missed call, at 3pm, i'll come...it's more convenient for me since, i'm not going anyway might as well not disrupt anything i'm doing... my "e" friends kinda adjusted already after 7 years...

on the otherhand, my sister compromised, "why not send a message when you're not coming and just drop by when you are?" lol... most of the time a forget lol so she stuck with mine eventually. she's enfp

worst thing that happened to me was i dropped some friends' movie gimmick coz i don't want to see some of them for some very personal reasons. later in the afternoon i went to the mall for some book hunting with my sister then i saw them... it just happened that they feel like jumping to another mall. when i was caught one said, "i thought you were busy" so i said, "yes, busy coz i'm spending time with my sister... i forgot to tell you we're supposed to go book hunting today. had i known you guys are coming over here we could've joined you... oh btw sis these are my friends... meet my sister..." phew!

[deicruxified]

This is a guy who wanted to date me....we don't talk anymore. *I actually strongly dislike talking to him because of that.
most of the guys i know doesn't want to hear about their prospect's ex's... so i find him a bit strange lol... i don't like those guys grilling me with questions like:

"when's the last time you cried"
"who was your first boyfriend"

the worst questions i got from a guy was "in your personal opinion...

...do you think she likes me?"
...what;s my best asset?"

yesterday a friend of mine was being bitter coz her ex-bf broke up with her for some girl so she was yacking on the ym telling me how he messed her life and that her ego won't tolerate talking to him but then again tells me she wants to say hi to him... all circular... then a while ago she has this status message in ym: "ok let's play hide and seek since you want it anyway, now tag me!" she asked me what my opinion is about her status message so being the honest person that i am, i said, "you sound like a sour prune"

damn... lol

[thegnat]

yeah he was a bit strange - even for me...

but I think he just wanted to psycho-grill me on why I fail at relationships and I could tell the full story but that would take a bit.....but it would be weirder even....

Yeah, one of my guy friends asked me those questions to and I'm thinking, "You're asking me?! What the hell do I know?" haha

[Bossy Mom]

I love talking about myself. I have always enjoyed job interviews because I get to talk about all the great things I have accomplished in the business world. On the other hand, I also love my alone time and prefer privacy above all.

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm honestly thinking of taking an Autobiography class next semester if offered so I can get around the "hurdle" of talking about myself.

It's funny because there are moments I don't mind talking about myself (if it's a class I like or if I'm with friends) but I hate job interviews. Despise them to the point of wondering why I bother. Part of it's the fact that you're getting judged on everything and the questions I usually get hit with are the standard fare where I never know what they want (I'm usually too focused on content) and then give off the vibe of showing that I'm "out of my element" there. Ugh.

Meltdown is the only accurate description because I'm already high strung and nervous, then get hit with these personal questions that I can usually answer instantaneously but really don't like answering b/c I rarely like the interviewers (I can get a feel if a person's cool or not after the first sentence and it's rare for an interviewer to make me comfortable).