What am I, really?

[Antares]

I know there's similar thread, but I don't think this is completely the same. Even though I can be very introverted at time, but through thinking on the bus today (I do a lot of thinking on the bus, apparently), and realize that I enjoy socializing a lot; and that my need to be alone might be my 'hidden' introvert side. I mean, no one can be 100%; that'd be too impractical. I don't think I had any 'transitions' (because apparently Es and Is have different brain structures); I may just be mistyped. I've been more aware lately and realized that I'm very annoyed whenever most conversations ended and I always take the initiative now. I've been typed as ENTJs before (only once, actually), and introverted on all other occasions, but now the line is blurred.

A typical extrovert description would be the need to be around people; however I do not feel that need. I'm just as happy now that I'm listening to Antonin Dvorak and enjoying my peace. No. I don't do my thinking out loud. By being extroverted (either my shadow type coming out or I'm really an extrovert), I've gained many more friends, and have become more dependent on them.

So I probably should organize my traits.

Extrovert:
-Like to be around people
-Provoke Debate; though people retreat whenever I do
-Eager to know people and make more friends; take initiative sometimes
-Tendency to naturally greet people in the halls (I don't greet people normally; if I'm expected to)
-Answer many questions in class

Introvert:
-Doesn't get reckless after long solitude
-Like introspection
-Like seluded areas like the library; dislikes cafeteria (I know this doesn't say much, but I'm in school ;) I've stopped going to cafeteria, choosing instead to spend my lunches alone or with my ESTJ friend. Strangely, she's perfectly content on her own too. We're just a quiet duo and she wouldn't be bothered by the lack of people.)
-Feel contentment when alone.
-Doesn't like 'extrovert' activities where socialising is required (such as playing Risk on my family gathering)
-Prefer to work alone; will reluctantly work with others
-Silent observer tendencies

ENTJ functions:

Te, Ni, Se, Fi

INTJ functions:

Ni, Te, Fi, Se

I usually detach myself both from my intuition and my sensing functions; then decide using Te whether I which one I should use. I have a natural tendency towards intuition though. My weakest may be my feeling aspects; I do feel strong emotions, but I suppress it until it's 'right' to express it; I try to do this no matter how painful. I have a very developed sensing function; and that is an INTJs inferior function.

[Flamethrower]

Yes I have a similar problem typing myself. I come out borderline I/E. On the one hand I am really friendly, love a great conversation, get excited by meeting new people, find everyone interesting, often feel more energetic hanging out with my friends and would be pretty crap at being a hermit. On the other I can easily spend time by myself, have only an average number of friends, prefer smaller groups of people to large crowds, spend lots of time thinking and have always been shy. I'm not exactly a party animal but I live in a big city and I love the idea that there are loads of people around. I feel nervous when I go to small towns often because I get a bit anxious about the idea there are not enough people in the place. So one of my biggest fears is the idea of not having enough people around. But then again, my city has recently developed with a lot with more people moving into my local area and I sometimes get fed up with the extra numbers of bodies around. But I suppose that is a good question to ask yourself. If you were told you had to move would you prefer to move to a city with lots going on or a small quiet town? I know I would choose the city and I always choose to travel to cities rather than smaller places for holidays too.

As for where I get my energy from, I never seem to be without energy so it is hard to tell. I feel pretty much the same whether I am with people or by myself. The only things I find draining are being bored or sometimes talking to quiet people where you have to initiate all the conversation yourself. So I don't seem to be madly introverted or extraverted. I am sure there are plenty of people who are like that.

I also think things like confidence (or lack of), having a positive or negative attitude and shyness which are not measured can obscure what you think you are. And those things are mutable over time. They can change in any direction. I have extraverted friends who can be really shy and introverted friends who talk non-stop.

I think the best thing is to read all the descriptions and decide that way what you are and I think it is totally possible not to fit exactly into any box but really be more a combination between types. Probably someone will disagree with me but I don't think type is always black and white.

Oh yes, I've tried working out my type by cognitive function order and I seem to be Te Ni Se Fi

[ChfMojoRising]

I think the issue is that you are not I or E, you're both with a preference for one over the other general situations. When socializing, the E part gets utilized and when alone the I part gets utilized. Some people are so much stronger in one than the other, or use one so much more than the other that it's easy to type them. Not every one is that way, perhaps not you as well.

[Richard0612]

Sounds similar to someone in my family. They're IxTJ, but I cannot decide between N/S. Although they find MBTI somewhat interesting, they don't want to take the test as they feel that most of the questions are 'situation-specific' and they can't make a choice. I have explained to them the N/S differences, but even they see both sides. Some people will not fall to one side, and can use both functions equally.

Maybe someone wiser can help [it doesn't matter, just for interest]:

N over S:
- Likes discussing philosophical things [when relevant]
- Does not think that traditions are to be revered and followed [although that could be my influence!]
- Hates 'normal' things such as celebrity culture and doesn't think that everyone should be married and have kids in a set progression.
- Will listen to different ways of thinking without going 'OMG!!! You are going against the social norms!!!! You need to die !!!!'

S over N:
- Practical [doesn't have the 'head in the clouds' syndrome common among Ns!]
- Good with finance/money
- Doesn't really like abstract theory, wonders 'what is it for/why is it useful'

[Flamethrower]

I think the issue is that you are not I or E, you're both with a preference for one over the other general situations. When socializing, the E part gets utilized and when alone the I part gets utilized. Some people are so much stronger in one than the other, or use one so much more than the other that it's easy to type them. Not every one is that way, perhaps not you as well.

I like the way you put that. (And it possibly isn't even that accurate for people to call themselves introverts or extraverts - perhaps that is a popular culture thing Jung never intended).

[Antares]

Ah. Good insight; except I still didn't accomplish what I made the thread for... I can't determine between INTJ and ENTJ.

[thecraig]

Your description of school life sounds very familiar. Some of your "extroversion" could be explained by the fact that you're smarter than the other kids. I would often answer questions in school and debate on subjects that interested me. It is not even "un-INTJ" to do this. Read some more of the personality profiles from different sites and I think you will see what I mean.

[Flamethrower]

Ah. Good insight; except I still didn't accomplish what I made the thread for... I can't determine between INTJ and ENTJ.

Sorry you are right. We are not being very helpful. How about this then. The Jungian functions go in the order:

INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se
ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi

Determining whether you feel Ni is dominant or Te is might help you decide. I found an interesting description of them:

Ni = Introverted iNtuition - Foreseeing implications, conceptualizing, and having images of the future or profound meaning. Introverted iNtuiting often involves a sense of what will be. The details might be a little fuzzy, but when you tune in to this process, there is some sense of how things will be. Using this process, we often are able to get pictures about the future or at least a sense of what will happen before we have any data. Sometimes it is an awareness of what is happening in another location and we have no sensory data to go on. Other times introverted iNtuiting operates when we conceptualize and get a sense of a whole plan, pattern, theory, or explanation. These are the kinds of images that come to us in the shower, in meditative states, or in dreams and help us deeply understand something. Sometimes they are profoundly symbolic and even universally so. In using this process, we tune into a likely future or something universal. This information can then be used to decide what to do next, what to plan for. Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes a problem or situation to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when a completely new, un-imagined realization comes to us. There is a disengagement from interactions in the room, followed by a sudden "aha!" or "that's it!" kind of experience. These kinds of experiences are often seen as if they are "psychic" in nature. The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness to them and an imperative quality that seems to demand action.

Te = Extraverted Thinking - Organizing, segmenting, sorting, and applying logic and criteria. Contingency planning, scheduling, and quantifying utilize the process of extraverted Thinking. Extraverted Thinking helps us to organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. One woman labeled the shoeboxes for her 100 pairs of shoes for color, height, style, and comfort. Sometimes the organizing of extraverted Thinking is more abstract, like a logical argument that is made to "rearrange" someone else's thinking process! An example is when we point out logical consequences and say, "If your do this, then that will happen." In written or verbal communication, extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else's logic, sequence, or organization. It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three. In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives.

I guess another thing would be to compare the way INTJs talk about things and ENTJs do. There's no ENTJ forum but if you look through the members list on here or MBTICentral.com and read the postings by ENTJs maybe you'll get a feeling of being more like one group than the other. I am lucky I know several ENTJs and INTJs in real life so I can easily tell who I am most like.

[eclecticjoker]

Also, introverts can be outgoing, and extraverts can be shy. The main difference is in how the individual processes interaction with others. Some find it more of an effort, even if it can be fun, and some find it energizing, even if it can be daunting.

[Antares]

Flamethrower: Sorry for not replying earlier; thanks so much for the descriptions. As for Ni and Te, I've read them in detail, and although I do get impressions and 'hunches' of things (without logical reasoning sometimes), I always question my hunches and try to see the S side of things. In this case, I don't know if my Ni or Te dominates, because I actually don't trust my intuition too much.

[Flamethrower]

Flamethrower: Sorry for not replying earlier; thanks so much for the descriptions. As for Ni and Te, I've read them in detail, and although I do get impressions and 'hunches' of things (without logical reasoning sometimes), I always question my hunches and try to see the S side of things. In this case, I don't know if my Ni or Te dominates, because I actually don't trust my intuition too much.

Well maybe if you don't trust your intuition too much your Te dominates then?

[Solaris]

I'm much like flamethrower. I feel pretty sure I typed as INTJ in jr high and high school (the career test said I should be a scientist), but it was a mistype. It wasn't that I didn't want to be around people, just that I didn't really like my peers a whole lot. I also think that ENTJs are not well described for females. However inept some of feel in the stereotypical female world, we were still raised in it and picked up some things male ENTJs would not have. It makes us present a little differently.
I read a lot of different descriptions, and thought about how I use my functions, and ENTJ fits me best. I can be shy at times, but that's usually in a new situation where I want to listen and learn as much as possible before I open my mouth. I have to gain some basic competency in certain situations before I will interact. I think being an ENTJ female can be a very confusing and complicated thing.

[schwartzie]

consider some one or a group of people you are comfortable with-maybe even family. Now imagine yourself experiencing sustained high stress and anxiety. Where do you go to feel better, to people or to be alone? Or is it situational? This may change over time--your answers to the questions are subjective, and will surely change, depending on how you are feeling about yourself at the moment you answer. In the past, I used to have very different family, work and social circumstances and was nearly balanced E/I. I'm now showing as a strong I. Why is the precision of the answer important to you?

[sriv]

Why is the precision of the answer important to you?

Good point.

Antares, cool your J and let the answer be slowly understood through time.

[Motor Jax]

Well maybe if you don't trust your intuition too much your Te dominates then?

this one caught my eye since a realization just came to me about myself

i was trying to figure out how to figure which would dominates

and then it hit me

i am always getting into trouble for allowing whoever wants to get through the gate, doorway, post, whatever

because i know intuitively about the person, and i can feel the suspect people

but then i get "talked to" because i didn't check their pass, id, or anything else

it also lets me know who is playing games with me, or trying to get by with something also

i trust my intuition very, very much though

and is a very strong attribute


i also find that 'T's don't joke as much, always thinking

i have friend who said he tested as INTJ way back in the 90's (damn, even i am saying it)

but whenever i talk to him, i can always see the gears are turning

i have my moments also where i am so concentrated on something that nothing else matters, becoming focused on many points

but when i am not troublshooting a circuit or fixing something, i am just the laid back intro guy that i am

i'd rather just let me thoughts drift

whereas this INTJ friend of mine is always (so it seems to me) in control of his thought process

he's an interesting character to talk with, and most agreeable also

we both have a good time talking on an intellectual level with each other




*sorry for the rambling*

[Antares]

Well maybe if you don't trust your intuition too much your Te dominates then?

Perhaps. Maybe I'm just balanced?

[ElstonGunn]

Perhaps. Maybe I'm just balanced?

Yeah. Or it could be Jungian psychology doesn't always fit absolutely perfectly with every single person on the face of the planet. Don't try to force yourself into one particular category. Saying that you're not sure if you're an INTJ or an ENTJ is more accurate and more explanatory than just leaving it as one or the other.

[rvi]

In highschool I tested completely opposite of what I test now, but I was a very different person then, too. I was almost forced to be someone I was not. A lot of people are surprised when I say I usually test as INTJ (occassionally INFJ) because I am not socially awkward as a lot of people expect this type to be.

[pinkroger]

Sounds to me like you're either a cautious ENTJ or an interesting, unconventional INTJ... I hope for the latter, there aren't enough of us in the world.

[rvi]

I'm going to pray that I am an unconventional INTJ because I have found ENTJs, while not all evil or bad, to be very overpowering, stubborn, unreasonable, and unwilling to compromise. If I am in charge, I do not rule with an iron fist or take the 'my way or the highway' approach. I like to hear other people's thoughts are before a decision is made as long as we focus and not get off on tangents or things that are completely irrelevant to the subject and also make the decision somewhat quickly. I also don't mind mediating between two disagreeing parties because usually the problem is stupid and a compromise can be reached when a 3rd party is involved, but I am able to quickly 'get to the root' of what the issue is and that's why there is usually quick resolution if they really want my help.

I think I am not socially awkward because I was forced to be very social as a child. I can talk and be charming, but really, I feel exhausted after everything and would rather sit at home and watch a deep, thought provoking movie or something. Big groups of people annoy and scare me at the same time, but you would never know because I learned how to act a long time ago. Does that make sense?

[schwartzie]

I'm going to pray that I am an unconventional INTJ ...

I think I am not socially awkward because I was forced to be very social as a child. I can talk and be charming, but really, I feel exhausted after everything and would rather sit at home and watch a deep, thought provoking movie or something. Big groups of people annoy and scare me at the same time, but you would never know because I learned how to act a long time ago. Does that make sense?

Perfectly. I had a conversation last night with a friend about a mutual acquaintance who is learning to manage social relationships in her late teens. It's not been pretty to see her work so hard to get to the center of a couple of larger social circles without damaging herself and her "real friends." You are probably fortunate to have had early training; it gives you more options in life, even if some are harder than others.