abstinence and safe sex

[anara]

i'm waiting til marriage. i want to set a good example for my daughters bc i won't want them to be promiscous. and of course it is impossible to keep your children from doing something, you can at least have practiced what you preach. and i come from a family where no one in any generation saved themself. i just believe it is ... healthy for the body and mind and family. is this off topic? hope not!Yes. Thread split.

[Chainsaw Dundee]

i'm waiting til marriage. i want to set a good example for my daughters bc i won't want them to be promiscous. and of course it is impossible to keep your children from doing something, you can at least have practiced what you preach. and i come from a family where no one in any generation saved themself. i just believe it is ... healthy for the body and mind and family. is this off topic? hope not!

Meh, I think you're better off teaching them safe sex than abstinence. It is possible to attain a healthy balance. Girls with even a modest amount of sex in their diet seem to be happier than ones without. Besides, what if you marry somebody, and they absolutely suck in bed? That sounds like a good way to drive the human race into extinction.

[anara]

why not teach them safe sex and abstinence?

and it's my preference. if they suck in bed they won't be gettin it from me. ha ha..... kidding. couples learn how to fuck each other.

[Chainsaw Dundee]

Meh, safe sex and moderation > safe sex and abstinence.

[ShaiGar]

i'm waiting til marriage. i want to set a good example for my daughters bc i won't want them to be promiscous. and of course it is impossible to keep your children from doing something, you can at least have practiced what you preach. and i come from a family where no one in any generation saved themself. i just believe it is ... healthy for the body and mind and family. is this off topic? hope not!

Meh, I think you're better off teaching them safe sex than abstinence. It is possible to attain a healthy balance. Girls with even a modest amount of sex in their diet seem to be happier than ones without. Besides, what if you marry somebody, and they absolutely suck in bed? That sounds like a good way to drive the human race into extinction.
Pretty much everyone sucks in bed the first time. I did, the two virgins I had sex with did.
Little bit of ingenuity and creativity I got good quickly.

Abstaining from anything is a stupid idea. That said I abstain from sex, but only because I have not found anyone worthy of my "Kingdom of Heaven" in the last year. Safe Sex, and teaching them to be choosy are the best ways.

[orange]

i'm waiting til marriage. i want to set a good example for my daughters bc i won't want them to be promiscous. and of course it is impossible to keep your children from doing something, you can at least have practiced what you preach. and i come from a family where no one in any generation saved themself. i just believe it is ... healthy for the body and mind and family. is this off topic? hope not!Yes. Thread split.
I agree, abstinence till marriage is the best way.

[Rei]

No sex = Safe sex

I don't really see the point in sex unless you want BABIESSSSS (or there's someone you're planning of having BABIES with) anyway. :thinking:
My own opinion, my mother never tried to tell me that. The most she ever said to me about this topic is, "Plan B is available over the counter now."
Of course I have been accused of being "sexless aka ... well whatever you want insert here that indicates I'm mentally, sexually incapable" :-X

So yes, abstinence till marriage. And I'm whoever it is is going to have to consent to a full medical examination/family medical history excavation first too. Well if we're planning to have kids anyway. Genetic diseases/disorders freak me out :scared:

And... let's not go into the details of good sex here. It's kind of sad that the level of a person's performance in bed is a criteria on the "report card" of someone you want to marry. Bad sex doesn't effect ability to procreate.. i don't see how that's going to drive humans into extinction.

[rwyatt365]

Interesting topic (guess it was going to happen sooner, or later).

Abstinence vs Safe Sex;
Personally, I think that abstinence for a person that has reached sexual maturity is not a particularly good thing to do. No matter how sophisticated we think we are as a species, sexual urges are still very much present and to deny or suppress them is probably not wise. I say this in general knowing that everyone is an individual and that each has different levels of "tolerance". Teaching safe sex practices and being available to help shape and guide reasonable behavior and choices is probably the best thing that a parent can do for their child.

First-time sex;
Anyone that says that they were great the first time in bed is either very lucky, delusional, or lying! I know I was (lousy, that is), and my virgin-on-virgin encounter was a handbook on "How to have bad sex and still laugh about it". My advise for first-timers, seek professional help! ;)

Good sex = good marriage;
From personal experience; good sex = good sex, nothing more, nothing less. Sex is a chapter of the marital contract but not the entire document. If you believe that the whole marriage contract reads like the Kama Sutra you will be sorely (pun intended) mistaken, and soon wishing that you could "just talk" sometime. It's not good when the only conversation with your spouse consists of what's for dinner and which position will it be tonight.

[Firelie]

I was never told to not have sex as a child, but I was made very aware of where babies came from, how easy it was to get pregnant, and how badly it could affect my life if I had one.

That's not to say that it ultimately stopped me from satisfying my curiosity about why everyone was so focused on sex...but it made me go about it cautiously. :thumbsup:

[Chainsaw Dundee]

No sex = Safe sex

I don't really see the point in sex unless you want BABIESSSSS (or there's someone you're planning of having BABIES with) anyway. :thinking:
My own opinion, my mother never tried to tell me that. The most she ever said to me about this topic is, "Plan B is available over the counter now."
Of course I have been accused of being "sexless aka ... well whatever you want insert here that indicates I'm mentally, sexually incapable" :-X

So yes, abstinence till marriage. And I'm whoever it is is going to have to consent to a full medical examination/family medical history excavation first too. Well if we're planning to have kids anyway. Genetic diseases/disorders freak me out :scared:

And... let's not go into the details of good sex here. It's kind of sad that the level of a person's performance in bed is a criteria on the "report card" of someone you want to marry. Bad sex doesn't effect ability to procreate.. i don't see how that's going to drive humans into extinction.


This post really reminded me of the Anti-Sex League from 1984 for some strange reason..

I think sex is overhyped, but shit. I do not understand the reasoning behind this at all.

About the extinction, I was speaking superlatively. Bad sex discourages repeated sexing. Repeated sexing increases the chance of pregnancy. A decreased chance of pregnancy leads to a potential lower birth rate. A lower birth rate leads to eventual extinction. This is the reason sex is pleasurable for most people, and not just be taken as a pleasureless obligation. [smiley=sombrero.gif]

[Rei]

This post really reminded me of the Anti-Sex League from 1984 for some strange reason..

I think sex is overhyped, but shit. I do not understand the reasoning behind this at all.

About the extinction, I was speaking superlatively. Bad sex discourages repeated sexing. Repeated sexing increases the chance of pregnancy. A decreased chance of pregnancy leads to a potential lower birth rate. A lower birth rate leads to eventual extinction. This is the reason sex is pleasurable for most people, and not just be taken as a pleasureless obligation. [smiley=sombrero.gif]
Well the problem here is that people are too open about "repeated sexing" and make too many babies that aren't wanted.

I do think it's better (if I had to choose b/w the two) to just promote 'safe sex' though. Telling someone "no" never really works. Curiosity is much stronger than the desire to be "good"

[OneBadMother]

Yeah, pretty much. As rwyatt said, it's highly ineffective to promote abstinence among a group of creatures that has sexual urges. If pregnancy is really too much of a worry, self-satisfaction might be a better thing to promote, but I doubt that would please the politicians for abstinence. :P

[wolf]

i'm waiting til marriage. i want to set a good example for my daughters bc i won't want them to be promiscous. and of course it is impossible to keep your children from doing something, you can at least have practiced what you preach. and i come from a family where no one in any generation saved themself. i just believe it is ... healthy for the body and mind and family. is this off topic? hope not!Yes. Thread split.

... I recognize you. The one that was going on about how you were going to be having sex with someone this last spring/summer.

[wolf]

No sex = Safe sex

I don't really see the point in sex unless you want BABIESSSSS (or there's someone you're planning of having BABIES with) anyway. :thinking:
My own opinion, my mother never tried to tell me that. The most she ever said to me about this topic is, "Plan B is available over the counter now."
Of course I have been accused of being "sexless aka ... well whatever you want insert here that indicates I'm mentally, sexually incapable" :-X

So yes, abstinence till marriage. And I'm whoever it is is going to have to consent to a full medical examination/family medical history excavation first too. Well if we're planning to have kids anyway. Genetic diseases/disorders freak me out :scared:

And... let's not go into the details of good sex here. It's kind of sad that the level of a person's performance in bed is a criteria on the "report card" of someone you want to marry. Bad sex doesn't effect ability to procreate.. i don't see how that's going to drive humans into extinction.


This post really reminded me of the Anti-Sex League from 1984 for some strange reason..

I think sex is overhyped, but shit. I do not understand the reasoning behind this at all.

About the extinction, I was speaking superlatively. Bad sex discourages repeated sexing. Repeated sexing increases the chance of pregnancy. A decreased chance of pregnancy leads to a potential lower birth rate. A lower birth rate leads to eventual extinction. This is the reason sex is pleasurable for most people, and not just be taken as a pleasureless obligation. [smiley=sombrero.gif]



I agree with her.

This world needs less people, anyway.

[radioactivez0r]

A friend of mine waited until she was married, and there were some serious compatibility issues, so she's all for screwing before marriage now. I took that lesson to heart.

[Jezebel]

A friend of mine waited until she was married, and there were some serious compatibility issues, so she's all for screwing before marriage now. I took that lesson to heart.
Did she stay with him?

I agree. I can understand waiting to be in a long term relationship, and/or in love, but not marriage. Sexual incompatibility can ruin a relationship. It doesn't seem worth risking an expensive divorce or spending the rest of your life with someone that doesn't please you sexually over something you can find out beforehand. I don't see any logical reason to wait until marriage, other than it just being for the sake of adhering to tradition.

[fripping]

cut the grass, is that you? that's ok, your secret is safe with me.

my intj g/f is waiting for marriage or at least until she graduates. she seems to have vaginismus either until we get hitched, or perhaps even after as a result of her chinese cultural indoctrination. it frustrates the hell out of me, honestly. she's lucky, most men wouldn't be pathetic enough to wait that long.

[OneBadMother]

Well if you're thinking of yourself as pathetic is correct, then she's not all that lucky at all. :P

[fripping]

what good is a joke if someone points out the obvious; what good is a balloon if someone takes a needle to it?

[OneBadMother]

And what good is half-asleep insomnia if it doesn't give me an excuse to point out the obvious every once in a while? <_<

[thegnat]

Personally - I don't want to have sex before marriage for a few reasons
a) I can't take "the pill"
b) I don't want to try another alternate birth control method. I'm not that promiscuous/don't get drunk/have been single for 20 years and
c) I don't want to bother with another doctor yet. I have enough medical issues.
oh and
d) why chance things with my luck? There was a 99% chance a surgery would take 50 minutes. It took 5 hours. Or else I'd be the one to try safe practices and get an STD while doing it. My luck is pretty bad when it comes to medical issues. Just bad enough that I get something, just good enough that I can do something to control it/live a normal life - as of now. Why chance that kind of luck?

I still say teach the pros and cons of both. That way they can make their own decision.

[TeleportThis]

A friend of mine waited until she was married, and there were some serious compatibility issues, so she's all for screwing before marriage now. I took that lesson to heart.
Did she stay with him?

I agree. I can understand waiting to be in a long term relationship, and/or in love, but not marriage. Sexual incompatibility can ruin a relationship. It doesn't seem worth risking an expensive divorce or spending the rest of your life with someone that doesn't please you sexually over something you can find out beforehand. I don't see any logical reason to wait until marriage, other than it just being for the sake of adhering to tradition.

I'm with you guys on this one. Having sex changes the relationship and not always for the better. I definitely want to know what I'm getting into before I sign up for life.

[Jezebel]

Personally - I don't want to have sex before marriage for a few reasons
a) I can't take "the pill"
b) I don't want to try another alternate birth control method. I'm not that promiscuous/don't get drunk/have been single for 20 years and
c) I don't want to bother with another doctor yet. I have enough medical issues.
oh and
d) why chance things with my luck? There was a 99% chance a surgery would take 50 minutes. It took 5 hours. Or else I'd be the one to try safe practices and get an STD while doing it. My luck is pretty bad when it comes to medical issues. Just bad enough that I get something, just good enough that I can do something to control it/live a normal life - as of now. Why chance that kind of luck?

I still say teach the pros and cons of both. That way they can make their own decision.
I don't care if you wait for marriage or not, but your logic here confuses me. Being in a long term, committed relationship does not require a marriage certificate. Sex before marriage does not require promiscuity.

[Firelie]

Box of condoms: $10 - $15

Divorce: $500 - $15,000*


Whee.

* amounts are approximate and are according to the internets (which may or may not make them more true)

[Evalind]

I grew up in a "wait until marriage" environment. Granted, it was a very religious environment as well, so if the OP is not preaching abstinence along side a "wrath of God" scenario they may get quite a different outcome than I did. Basically, I learned to equate sex with sin. Pretty much all non-baby-making sex, not just the premarital stuff. When I did finally lose my virginity my third year of college I started down a path toward atheism. Religion no longer made sense to me. As much as I'm over the "wrath of God" thing, I still have occasional guilt issues when it comes to sex, much to my husband's dismay.

In conclusion... teaching abstinence as a way to show respect for your own body is probably fine, but don't make sex into a "bad" thing because it could seriously mess up their future intimate relationships.

[thegnat]

Personally - I don't want to have sex before marriage for a few reasons
a) I can't take "the pill"
b) I don't want to try another alternate birth control method. I'm not that promiscuous/don't get drunk/have been single for 20 years and
c) I don't want to bother with another doctor yet. I have enough medical issues.
oh and
d) why chance things with my luck? There was a 99% chance a surgery would take 50 minutes. It took 5 hours. Or else I'd be the one to try safe practices and get an STD while doing it. My luck is pretty bad when it comes to medical issues. Just bad enough that I get something, just good enough that I can do something to control it/live a normal life - as of now. Why chance that kind of luck?

I still say teach the pros and cons of both. That way they can make their own decision.
I don't care if you wait for marriage or not, but your logic here confuses me. Being in a long term, committed relationship does not require a marriage certificate. Sex before marriage does not require promiscuity.

no it doesn't.

I'm just saying that'd I'd wait for a long term relationship - that since I've been single for 20 years, not at all flirty or...why should I even worry about it actually? haha.

I think I was just referring to promiscuity as to how some people get drunk and make out with anyone they see. Or get so drunk they didn't realize they were sleeping with someone. I don't have that problem.

[Rei]

no it doesn't.

I'm just saying that'd I'd wait for a long term relationship - that since I've been single for 20 years, not at all flirty or...why should I even worry about it actually? haha.

I think I was just referring to promiscuity as to how some people get drunk and make out with anyone they see. Or get so drunk they didn't realize they were sleeping with someone. I don't have that problem.

Good point. I've been single a month short of my whole life. I haven't even been with someone I'd give my time to yet, not to mention my virginity. I'd rather save it to be somewhat of a way of saying "look, I think you're worth it"... which would be as good as saying "yes, I want to spend the rest of my life with you" anyway.

*Just typing that gave me shivers... you see why I need an alternate method of communicating that?*

[bucolic_]

no it doesn't.

I'm just saying that'd I'd wait for a long term relationship - that since I've been single for 20 years, not at all flirty or...why should I even worry about it actually? haha.

I think I was just referring to promiscuity as to how some people get drunk and make out with anyone they see. *Or get so drunk they didn't realize they were sleeping with someone. I don't have that problem.

Good point. *I've been single a month short of my whole life. *I haven't even been with someone I'd give my time to yet, not to mention my virginity. *I'd rather save it to be somewhat of a way of saying "look, I think you're worth it"... which would be as good as saying "yes, I want to spend the rest of my life with you" anyway.

*Just typing that gave me shivers... you see why I need an alternate method of communicating that?*

Hahahah... *Yeah, hopefully he'll interpret it in the right way... *And I've been single my entire life except one short period in highschool, and I remember kissing her (ex-gf), and later feeling pretty strange (after we broke up) about it, so I'm glad we never had sex.. *

Although most people assume a 22 year old male should have had sex by now, but I make sure it's not common knowledge, because people will either use it to wield some kind of false superiority over you (While I never feel inferior, I don't want to give them the pleasure of feeling superior), or feel sorry for you (which I really don't need). *But... leave it to an INTJ to live in a house where 3 of the 5 are virgins...all being 21 or 22 hahaha...And the fourth isn't a virgin, but is extremely inexperienced. *

Anyways, I'm not necessarily a virgin by choice, mainly because I only would want to have sex in a relationship, and I've never been in a real one, since it's not really been a big priority for me. I don't think sex before marriage is necessarily bad, but I don't look down on people who choose to wait either..

[rwyatt365]

Hahahah... *Yeah, hopefully he'll interpret it in the right way... *And I've been single my entire life except one short period in highschool, and I remember kissing her (ex-gf), and later feeling pretty strange (after we broke up) about it, so I'm glad we never had sex.. *

Although most people assume a 22 year old male should have had sex by now, but I make sure it's not common knowledge, because people will either use it to wield some kind of false superiority over you (While I never feel inferior, I don't want to give them the pleasure of feeling superior), or feel sorry for you (which I really don't need). *But... leave it to an INTJ to live in a house where 3 of the 5 are virgins...all being 21 or 22 hahaha...And the fourth isn't a virgin, but is extremely inexperienced. *

Anyways, I'm not necessarily a virgin by choice, mainly because I only would want to have sex in a relationship, and I've never been in a real one, since it's not really been a big priority for me. *I don't think sex before marriage is necessarily bad, but I don't look down on people who choose to wait either.. *
I'd guess that the median age for the first sex encounter among INTJs is probably significantly above that of the general population. For me it was 19 (I think), during the '70s "if it feels good, do it" generation. I was probably the last guy in my dorm at college that got laid and my (so-called) friends never let me forget that fact!

Virginity is a choice, not a "condition". Some people think that you're not "normal" if you don't have sex by age 16 and are somehow "damaged" if you don't have sex 5 times a week. Anyone that has made the choice to abstain - for whatever reason - has a personal conviction that I can't, and won't question. It's nobody's business but your own what you choose to do with your body.

[cielo market]

*I'd rather save it to be somewhat of a way of saying "look, I think you're worth it"... which would be as good as saying "yes, I want to spend the rest of my life with you" anyway.

well said. *:thumbsup:

(side note, I'm surprised there's no poll to this thread...)

[bucolic_]

Virginity is a choice, not a "condition". Some people think that you're not "normal" if you don't have sex by age 16 and are somehow "damaged" if you don't have sex 5 times a week. Anyone that has made the choice to abstain - for whatever reason - has a personal conviction that I can't, and won't question. It's nobody's business but your own what you choose to do with your body.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but I didn't mean to make it sound like a "condition," I just meant to say that I'm not one for some moral reason necessarily, but because I haven't made it (sex) a priority.

[cielo market]

Poll!

[thegnat]

neutral.

it's up to the individual to say what's best for them.

[cielo market]

We're not looking to impose our opinions on others, answer according to your personal decision

[thegnat]

My personal decision really isn't applicable because I haven't had to face a decision on it honestly.

edit: I'd *probably* go abstinent. but that's just me.

[rwyatt365]

Virginity is a choice, not a "condition". Some people think that you're not "normal" if you don't have sex by age 16 and are somehow "damaged" if you don't have sex 5 times a week. Anyone that has made the choice to abstain - for whatever reason - has a personal conviction that I can't, and won't question. It's nobody's business but your own what you choose to do with your body.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but I didn't mean to make it sound like a "condition," I just meant to say that I'm not one for some moral reason necessarily, but because I haven't made it (sex) a priority.
Nope, just a general comment. :thumbsup:

[Yersinia]

I don't see the reason for staying abstinent until marriage. Moreover, for me sex is more than the mechanical process for getting babies, it's showing your affection to the person you love.
You'll never be so close to anyone than in the process of making love :) It strengthens trust and the feeling of unity in a relationship and satisfies your physical needs. What a nice thing indeed.
And it shouldn't be thing to be avoided as it's not bad. Our bodies were actually made to do it.

[The Rose]

i'm waiting til marriage. i want to set a good example for my daughters bc i won't want them to be promiscous. and of course it is impossible to keep your children from doing something, you can at least have practiced what you preach. and i come from a family where no one in any generation saved themself. i just believe it is ... healthy for the body and mind and family. is this off topic? hope not!Yes. Thread split.Good for you. I'm proud of you! I wish I had waited.

[Tarrick]

Abstinence. Why? Because I think that since sex carries (generally) such powerful emotions, both for you and for your partner, that it should only be done with someone your care about to the extent that you would marry them. And then, if you are getting married, I don't see why you wouldn't want to make your wedding night that much more special.

It's getting a rarer thing these days for two people to look forward to their wedding night in that manner.

[Rei]

Pre-marriage gift - INTJ manual "How to live with an INTJ" (cost of internet bills)
Marriage gift - one brilliant INTJ (cost of a wedding)
Post marriage gift - virginity and a spotless home (priceless)

[Yersinia]

(...) Post marriage gift - virginity and a spotless home (priceless)
How about: Post marriage gift - good wild sex as you are experienced in how pushing his buttons.(priceless)

Maybe I don't see sex as such a big thing like some people in this thread. It's just a pleasing way of so many ways to show your affection to the person you love and nothing you have to wait for many years. So how about philosophising about life in your wedding night? This would be special ^^#.
I don't regret having 'lost' my virginity to my first boy-friend 4 years ago as we're still together and I feel like staying with him till the end ^^. We're both students so marriage is still far off and we both have to concentrate on our careers. So maybe in 7-8 years when we've got jobs. What a long time to wait indeed! Some months ago we moved together and I couldn't say how boring it would be without....

But after all, it's a personal decision. If some one wants to miss it and wait I'm fine with it. And actually I can't understand girls/boys switching their love partners every week claiming they want to gain as much experience as possible. :o