INTJ Parenting

[justthefacts]

I am wondering about INTJ parenting styles. How do you deal with public schools and some of the issues with other people's children? I find that I am the "unpopular Mom" because I am not the touchy-feely-chatty-get-to-know-ya type. I tend to be more "tough love" type. I'm in hot water with some Moms' right now over bullying issues. I am really getting exhausted trying to talk to these women/men who are in denial..."it's not MY kid's fault!". Anyone else had to stand tough against wimpy parents? Advice appreciated!

[gwalchma]

Well, if I had my way, I would not deal with public schools at all! If it was at all financially possible, I'd homeschool.
I have had some huge issues over bully kids. I have tried to teach my child (8yo) some of the reasons these young children are acting in that manner...but...i have also stressed to him over and over he is not to take it. He must stand up for himself and others...if that includes getting in trouble for hitting (which he wont do) then so be it. That is my "tough love" tactic. It is usually my kid that gets bullied...he is very much like me and tends to keep to himself. When he gets tired of it he will get mad and speak up for himself. I listen to him whenever he does get bullied, ask what he did about it and what he could try next time. I havent had to take it to the teachers on any one specific incident and now that he is 8 that would be sooo not the thing to do!!! :) They'd really pick on him then! Of course if it got so bad that he just couldn't handle it, evident by our evening conversations, I'd march my "mama bear" butt over there and handle it myself. On the same hand, I have had to come down on my son for talking to some kids in a disrespectful manner. We have a pretty open relationship right now and he tells me everything, so he ends up telling on himself. That, I know, will change in a few years!
He has adapted to the playground rules, so to speak, and is becoming quite charismatic. I think he has taken what I have tried to teach him, learned on his own and has found what works for him. Im very proud of his internal strength and character. He's learned not to cry in front of the bullies which has helped him immensely!
Now, the parents of these children? The deniers? The kids are the way they are bcs there hasnt been any accountability demanded from or of their parents. IMHO.
Stand your ground, Justthefacts, whatever you think is right for your child. I wouldnt waste my time trying to convince those parents that they should take some responsibility. They were probably the bullies in their time.
I have been the unpopular mom in preschool and K-2 (so far) as I believe that if your kid hits mine, mine gets to hit back - period. I have made my opinion clear to the teachers and some admins that it is unacceptable for any child to sit back and get bullied while they play the diplomatic games with the parents. I dont think raising more sheeple is going to improve our civilization.
Of course, so my child doesnt get suspended; i play by the rules and tell him to tell the teacher. It goes like this: 1st offense tell the kid(s) to stop hitting, picking, etc. 2nd offense walk away and tell the teacher 3rd offense: Fight back. This is all in one day.
uh, no, I did not get any votes for the PTA president! 8-)
Oh and i dont deal with wimpy parents either - smile and nod - smile and nod...but stand your ground.
It's your child's life and your job to raise him/her as you see fit. I think the main thing is to teach your child how to deal with this and dont stress out about what the other parents think. The hardest part is teaching our kids how to deal with life when sometimes it seems too hard for us as adults to deal with it!

[justthefacts]

Thanks for the great input Gwalchma. I have informed the school counselor about the bullying...one girl ring leader and 3 girl bystanders. The girls got "lunch detention" and the parents are beside themselves! The denial is unbelieveable. One Mom actually told my daughter that she was upset with her, then later apologized to my daughter after I read her the riot act. The daughter of this crazy woman told my daughter "I hate you and it's your fault we're all in trouble". Wow, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree! I'm afraid it will only get worse for my daughter now...sigh. *Homeschooling is looking like a good idea at this point and I will look into it. Thanks again!

[The Rose]

I am wondering about INTJ parenting styles. How do you deal with public schools and some of the issues with other people's children? I find that I am the "unpopular Mom" because I am not the touchy-feely-chatty-get-to-know-ya type. I tend to be more "tough love" type. I'm in hot water with some Moms' right now over bullying issues. I am really getting exhausted trying to talk to these women/men who are in denial..."it's not MY kid's fault!". Anyone else had to stand tough against wimpy parents? Advice appreciated!
Yeah. Just keep on being yourself and standing for what's right.

[Vayate]

As someone who's been on both sides of the bullying issue, I can assure you that pursuing the issue through the parents or the school is the single least effective method of stopping bullying. In so far as I can tell, it was never effective for my parents and I sure didn't see any fewer physical confrontations as a result of it. The problem is that diplomacy has no teeth, and you need something with teeth to resolve the issue.

You have two options. The first is legal -- you can get the kid for battery/assault depending on offense, and you could make a very strong civil suit against the school for failure to protect your child. Even the threat of legal action against the school and parents should get the ball rolling; that $300 or so that a good lawyer will charge you for formal letters indicating such intent may be the best you ever spend.

The second is what worked for me, and that was schoolyard deterrence. The problem with bullying is that it occurs when the people with the authority are elsewhere; it's a social phenomenon among peers, and must be resolved at that level if possible. I cannot stress enough the importance of teaching self defense to your child -- not self defense simply to protect oneself physically, but in order to deter future attacks. Quite frankly, achieving such deterrence usually involves breaking an arm or three in physical confrontations. The use of force in excess of what was warranted for the given situation will be necessary at some point, as well as an assertion that future abuse will end similarly. Realize that the people bullying your child are extremely judgmental and view themselves as superior -- thus, reasoning is unlikely to be effective. If your child stops being an effective and available target through self defense, the problem will likely go away. Enrolling your child in a self defense course (ensure that the martial art is designed for self defense, not competition!) is highly recommended. Hand-to-hand combat and basic defensive firearms training should be standard for children 8 years and over, and I know that if I have a kid those skills will come right after reading and writing.

After the issue is resolved, counseling is a very good idea. I sure wish I had gotten some, because I'm 20 and still have unresolved issues as a result of regular bullying. Watch for aggression and hostility issues, and make sure your child doesn't start bullying others.

A few warnings, if I may. Do not assume that verbal abuse will not escalate to physical violence, because it inevitably will if one is verbally defending oneself. However, you should also teach your child not to escalate the level of confrontation, eg from verbal to physical. Also, be prepared to take legal action against the involved parties. If you send the offending kids to juvenile detention or an alternative learning school, your problem is solved and you'll probably get a good bit of compensation for damages in the process.

More later if anything else occurs to me. Questions are welcome.

[justthefacts]

Thanks The Rose and Vayate for your support. The bullying is so far verbal, but if it continues I will have my daughter moved to a different school if necessary. And not without a big stink I might add! I don't want her to think SHE is being punished, but I have no patience with this stuff. *We'll see what tomorrow brings... :-[

[The Rose]

Thanks The Rose and Vayate for your support. The bullying is so far verbal, but if it continues I will have my daughter moved to a different school if necessary. And not without a big stink I might add! I don't want her to think SHE is being punished, but I have no patience with this stuff. We'll see what tomorrow brings... :-[
What's your daughter's M-B type, do you know?
And how old is she?
Does she want to leave the school or would she rather stay?
How many people are bullying her?

[justthefacts]

Rose,

Daughter is ES?P, 7 years old, 4 bullies (2 are guilty by association...the school calls them "by-standers"), and normally loves school. She turned in to a crying, nighmare having, school hating mess in a span of about 2 months. It turns out that she stood up for herself against one of the girls who is the "ring-leader" and that's when all of the problems started. This "ring-leader" had, since first grade, been telling the other girls what to do and when to do it, helping herself to some of my daughters lunch, etc. When I found out, I told my daughter it was ok to say no and do what she wanted to do, not what she was told to do. And so it goes...

[The Rose]

Rose,

Daughter is ES?P, 7 years old, 4 bullies (2 are guilty by association...the school calls them "by-standers"), and normally loves school. She turned in to a crying, nighmare having, school hating mess in a span of about 2 months. It turns out that she stood up for herself against one of the girls who is the "ring-leader" and that's when all of the problems started. This "ring-leader" had, since first grade, been telling the other girls what to do and when to do it, helping herself to some of my daughters lunch, etc. When I found out, I told my daughter it was ok to say no and do what she wanted to do, not what she was told to do. And so it goes...


Wow. That's awful.

[Bossy Mom]

My daughter, 17, says I am just like the Diane Keaton character in "Because I Said So." I watched the movie with her and I found the character's resemblance to me shocking! I told her at least I don't tell her what to wear (unless I think the outfit is too revealing) and I hate polka dots. I have to admit that I am always trying to help her find a good boyfriend. It's unfortunate that she never likes my choices for her!

I admit that once my daughter didn't deal with an ex-boyfriend the way she should have. I just took the initiative and told him, "Never contact my daughter again, You Sadistic B....d!" She thought I shouldn't have done that, but I'm still not sorry.

My daughter says I'm her best friend. Today is Saturday, and I'm taking her out to lunch and to some museums. We always have fun doing that.

[Vayate]

My daughter, 17, says I am just like the Diane Keaton character in "Because I Said So." I watched the movie with her and I found the character's resemblance to me shocking! I told her at least I don't tell her what to wear (unless I think the outfit is too revealing) and I hate polka dots. I have to admit that I am always trying to help her find a good boyfriend. It's unfortunate that she never likes my choices for her!

I admit that once my daughter didn't deal with an ex-boyfriend the way she should have. I just took the initiative and told him, "Never contact my daughter again, You Sadistic B....d!" She thought I shouldn't have done that, but I'm still not sorry.

My daughter says I'm her best friend. Today is Saturday, and I'm taking her out to lunch and to some museums. We always have fun doing that.

Hopefully she's not a fellow INTJ. I know that whenever my parents insist upon something, I insist upon doing the opposite consequences be damned,

[Bossy Mom]

My daughter, 17, says I am just like the Diane Keaton character in "Because I Said So." *I watched the movie with her and I found the character's resemblance to me shocking! *I told her at least I don't tell her what to wear (unless I think the outfit is too revealing) and I hate polka dots. *I have to admit that I am always trying to help her find a good boyfriend. *It's unfortunate that she never likes my choices for her!

I admit that once my daughter didn't deal with an ex-boyfriend the way she should have. *I just took the initiative and told him, "Never contact my daughter again, You Sadistic B....d!" *She thought I shouldn't have done that, but I'm still not sorry.

My daughter says I'm her best friend. *Today is Saturday, and I'm taking her out to lunch and to some museums. *We always have fun doing that.

Hopefully she's not a fellow INTJ. I know that whenever my parents insist upon something, I insist upon doing the opposite consequences be damned,

My daughter is the opposite of me! Every time I tell her I like one of her dates -- she dumps him. If I tell her I can't stand one of her dates - she thinks he's the greatest!

[mind_wander]

I must say, speaking not a parent, but a son. One day I will be an INTJ parent some day. So some of these issues will come up. Put it this way, a big :thumbsup: and should be more proud of yourselves, then worrying about it. Since, other parents do not see in the eyes of an INTJ. If that was so, less more complaints and more chit chatting, in solving the problem. More like an INTJ parent coalition against bullying.

[Henry]

I am wondering about INTJ parenting styles. How do you deal with public schools and some of the issues with other people's children? I find that I am the "unpopular Mom" because I am not the touchy-feely-chatty-get-to-know-ya type. I tend to be more "tough love" type. I'm in hot water with some Moms' right now over bullying issues. I am really getting exhausted trying to talk to these women/men who are in denial..."it's not MY kid's fault!". Anyone else had to stand tough against wimpy parents? Advice appreciated!

Failing to acknowledge other people's feelings makes them go crazy, and pushes a slightly needy person to a crazy person.

[Riverratt]

I had to chime in!! This post inspired me to stop lurking, and get posting. :)

As a parent of two school age kids, my wife and I *chose a VERY pro-active approach, there are two things you must realize about bullying, they are sad hard facts and they are...

* 1.It must be dealt with within the child's peer group,
* * *
* 2. *Any parent or teacher seen “meddling” WILL, make it worse for the victim, The teachers will not be their all the time to protect the victim, and believe me, the bullies will remember “who got them in trouble, and who is a coward” (in their eyes anyway)

I made it abundantly plain to my children, from the first day they went to school, They have MY BLESSING, to defend themselves with what ever means necessary. Even in cases of teasing (their are fighting words), I made it as clear as I could to my children that if they get in trouble for fighting at school, and they DID NOT START IT, that I, AS THEIR FATHER, *would take them out for ice cream as soon as they got home, and that not to worry, I would deal with the other parents and school staff. If necessary, they are to call me from the school, if the school will not allow them to call (which they have been known to do to other kids around here) They have my blessing to walk to a near by story or home to call ME, their father.

I also made it clear to them. That there is no such thing as a fair fight, and if moved to physical combat, do not stop until their opponent is clearly “beaten” , for example,even if they fall to the ground, stomp the in their face and guts... *[smiley=furious.gif]

This may sound heartless and cruel, it is, because bullies are cruel and heartless, they do not deserve mercy. Bullies are the school yard equivalent of Hitler, and they themselves need to be treated as such.

Now, to tell you about my Children, I have a very loving, and quiet, (much like her father) 11 year old girl, who has NEVER been in trouble at school a day in her life, and is an honor roll student. Last week, she made me so proud of her as an individual I nearly busted. She went to visit at a friends house. This friend had recently moved here from out of state, and as I was getting to know her parents, Her friends mother told me about when her daughter had just started school back at the start of the year, some of the other girls where teasing and pushing her around, and my daughter “interposed” herself and told the other girls that they better “back off” and they did!!!

My daughter never mentioned the encounter to me or her mother, but she made me, her father proud!! I had told her in our conversations about bullies that there is honor in defending people from them. In a way that incident speaks volumes about her character.

My son is a very wild 8, the jury is still out on him, but it looks promising as well. But to my talks with him, I had to add the “If I ever hear of YOU, being a bully, you son, will be in more trouble than you will ever know what to do with, be known for never starting fights, but finishing them”

As for the way the “soccer moms” and touchy feely parents, and what they think of my parenting style, I could NOT, careless about what those “parents” think. My Children are MY responsibility. It is not my fault that THEY, taught their kids to go around starting fights, it is not MY fault that others leave their kids totally unprepared for the realities of life in the real world, it is not my fault that they feel entitled, its not my fault that their kids NEVER got to take responsibility *
for their actions... * * *give that kid a “Time Out”...evil LOL.....

Its not my fault that by abrogating their duties as parents, they have FAILED. *:thumbsdown:

Don't let the tone of this post fool you, believe it or not, my wife and I are some of the most peaceful people you will ever meet, there is something about the idea, that thru threats and force, someone can impose their will on another, that just pulls ever red switch I have.

[mind_wander]

Rose,

Daughter is ES?P, 7 years old, 4 bullies (2 are guilty by association...the school calls them "by-standers"), and normally loves school. She turned in to a crying, nighmare having, school hating mess in a span of about 2 months. It turns out that she stood up for herself against one of the girls who is the "ring-leader" and that's when all of the problems started. This "ring-leader" had, since first grade, been telling the other girls what to do and when to do it, helping herself to some of my daughters lunch, etc. When I found out, I told my daughter it was ok to say no and do what she wanted to do, not what she was told to do. And so it goes...


That sux, but it sounds more the description of ESFP. So, the feelings will come out naturally, once you click in that "T" ok step away from that person. Its like a firecracker just gone off.

[mind_wander]

My daughter, 17, says I am just like the Diane Keaton character in "Because I Said So." *I watched the movie with her and I found the character's resemblance to me shocking! *I told her at least I don't tell her what to wear (unless I think the outfit is too revealing) and I hate polka dots. *I have to admit that I am always trying to help her find a good boyfriend. *It's unfortunate that she never likes my choices for her!

I admit that once my daughter didn't deal with an ex-boyfriend the way she should have. *I just took the initiative and told him, "Never contact my daughter again, You Sadistic B....d!" *She thought I shouldn't have done that, but I'm still not sorry.

My daughter says I'm her best friend. *Today is Saturday, and I'm taking her out to lunch and to some museums. *We always have fun doing that.

Hopefully she's not a fellow INTJ. I know that whenever my parents insist upon something, I insist upon doing the opposite consequences be damned,
Yeah, I know the feeling.

[mind_wander]

I had to chime in!! This post inspired me to stop lurking, and get posting. :)

As a parent of two school age kids, my wife and I *chose a VERY pro-active approach, there are two things you must realize about bullying, they are sad hard facts and they are...

* 1.It must be dealt with within the child's peer group,
* * *
* 2. *Any parent or teacher seen “meddling” WILL, make it worse for the victim, The teachers will not be their all the time to protect the victim, and believe me, the bullies will remember “who got them in trouble, and who is a coward” (in their eyes anyway)

I made it abundantly plain to my children, from the first day they went to school, They have MY BLESSING, to defend themselves with what ever means necessary. Even in cases of teasing (their are fighting words), I made it as clear as I could to my children that if they get in trouble for fighting at school, and they DID NOT START IT, that I, AS THEIR FATHER, *would take them out for ice cream as soon as they got home, and that not to worry, I would deal with the other parents and school staff. If necessary, they are to call me from the school, if the school will not allow them to call (which they have been known to do to other kids around here) They have my blessing to walk to a near by story or home to call ME, their father.

I also made it clear to them. That there is no such thing as a fair fight, and if moved to physical combat, do not stop until their opponent is clearly “beaten” , for example,even if they fall to the ground, stomp the in their face and guts... *[smiley=furious.gif]

This may sound heartless and cruel, it is, because bullies are cruel and heartless, they do not deserve mercy. Bullies are the school yard equivalent of Hitler, and they themselves need to be treated as such.

Now, to tell you about my Children, I have a very loving, and quiet, (much like her father) 11 year old girl, who has NEVER been in trouble at school a day in her life, and is an honor roll student. Last week, she made me so proud of her as an individual I nearly busted. She went to visit at a friends house. This friend had recently moved here from out of state, and as I was getting to know her parents, Her friends mother told me about when her daughter had just started school back at the start of the year, some of the other girls where teasing and pushing her around, and my daughter “interposed” herself and told the other girls that they better “back off” and they did!!!

My daughter never mentioned the encounter to me or her mother, but she made me, her father proud!! I had told her in our conversations about bullies that there is honor in defending people from them. In a way that incident speaks volumes about her character.

My son is a very wild 8, the jury is still out on him, but it looks promising as well. But to my talks with him, I had to add the “If I ever hear of YOU, being a bully, you son, will be in more trouble than you will ever know what to do with, be known for never starting fights, but finishing them”

As for the way the “soccer moms” and touchy feely parents, and what they think of my parenting style, I could NOT, careless about what those “parents” think. My Children are MY responsibility. It is not my fault that THEY, taught their kids to go around starting fights, it is not MY fault that others leave their kids totally unprepared for the realities of life in the real world, it is not my fault that they feel entitled, its not my fault that their kids NEVER got to take responsibility *
for their actions... * * *give that kid a “Time Out”...evil LOL.....

Its not my fault that by abrogating their duties as parents, they have FAILED. *:thumbsdown:

Don't let the tone of this post fool you, believe it or not, my wife and I are some of the most peaceful people you will ever meet, there is something about the idea, that thru threats and force, someone can impose their will on another, that just pulls ever red switch I have.
I do admire this post and very interesting. As for the first bolded, being in college, still new transfer students trying to fit in and glad to make peace with them. Hey, we all been there, as the new person in school, not pretty. As for the second bolded, I can't help break out laughing, hmm it seems you son got no choice, but used your method. Son: Darn it, dad why punish me, if I didn't start it. Dad: Because you didn't stand up for yourself thats why.

I got a question for INTJ parents. Lets say your son or daughter brought in a so called friend into your home. Now, as in INTJ, your children are friendly people, so they didn't know this so called friend at first glance without knowing its a coercive friend. Something you don't want to mess with and very manipulative too, even fool the children parents.

Here is a great example, "This so called friend, lets call him Rick, while he is standing next to your child, then when you turned around to go find something. Rick punched your child for kicks and giggles. When you come back, Rick pretend, as nothing has happened. Using the kids are kids approach, so maybe at the back of your mind, maybe their having fun. Until you notice so many bruises on your child."
The Kicker: RememberRick is very manipulative and has lying charisma capability, telling on their parents or the police will not work; Rick will by pass it.

So as a INTJ parent, how will you resolve this?

[Bossy Mom]

I have spoiled my beautiful, affectionate daughter because she had two liver transplants when she was little. I told myself that if she lived, I would do my best for her. Once, when her boyfriend dumped her, I bought her Gucci sunglasses ($300), MAC makeup ($150), A&F clothes ($600), and Guess clothes ($400). Did it help her broken heart? No. I won't do that again.

As for public schools, I communicated well with the elementary and middle schools, but not the high schools. It was the same with my son. The public high schools are worthless. My daughter tells me that every day at least two police cars are at school picking up some miscreants. One day I went to pick her up at school when she was sick, and I saw two police cars in front of the school patting down and handcuffing a rough-looking student. Most of the problems, however, are with the worthless parents of these delinquents. It worries me that more and more politicians are telling parents that they don't have to be responsible for their children, that society is. It seems like the first stage of "A Clockwork Orange."

[Riverratt]

I do admire this post and very interesting. As for the first bolded, being in college, still new transfer students trying to fit in and glad to make peace with them. Hey, we all been there, as the new person in school, not pretty. As for the second bolded, I can't help break out laughing, hmm it seems you son got no choice, but used your method. Son: Darn it, dad why punish me, if I didn't start it. Dad: Because you didn't stand up for yourself thats why.

I got a question for INTJ parents. Lets say your son or daughter brought in a so called friend into your home. Now, as in INTJ, your children are friendly people, so they didn't know this so called friend at first glance without *knowing its a coercive friend. Something you don't want to mess with and very manipulative too, even fool the children parents.

Here is a great example, "This so called friend, lets call him Rick, while he is standing next to your child, then when you turned around to go find something. Rick punched your child for kicks and giggles. When you come back, Rick pretend, as nothing has happened. Using the kids are kids approach, so maybe at the back of your mind, maybe their having fun. Until you notice so many bruises on your child."
The Kicker: RememberRick is very manipulative and has lying charisma capability, telling on their parents or the police will not work; Rick will by pass it.

So as a INTJ parent, how will you resolve this?

Yea, your right about SOUNDING like I would punish my son (or daughter) for that matter, if they did not take their part. But that is not the case, I did tell them that "They KNEW what to do, and only they can do it, somethings I just cannot help you with" (with the exception of other adults)

There will be no consequences from me, if they do NOT stand up to bullies. If he don't.....He will be living in his own private hell, nothing I can do to really help him, besides giving him a wide berth as possible to "deal with the problem"

As for the manipulative friend, All you can hope to do is equip your kids, while they are young, to see that some people will try to take advantage of the situation. Teach them when they are young, make examples out of people you know. I have a niece that has REALLY SCREWED up her life, in the past 6 months, she became an abject lesson for my children, of how NOT, to do things.

It is as simple of saying "Daughter, you really don't want to do THAT, do you want to end up like (insert black sheep family member's name here)??

Or... I am so glad you have such a good head on your shoulders, I can see I don't need to worry about you like (bad family members parent's name here) does.

I have found out that making examples, both good and bad, about people your kids know, is a TREMENDOUS, and powerful tool, to teaching my children about the different situations they will encounter in life...BUT...Sometimes it can make for , uncomfortable situations..

For example, a while back, my son (7 at the time)was talking to my sister on the phone, and he point blank told her that "She needed to be a better parent, and keep his cousin off drugs, and out of trouble" . :suspicious: So becarfull with this approach, It can make family get togethers..ehmm uncomfortable.

Especially when my much older sisters, have told me that they fear what my children will say. And they feel like when my kids look at them, that they are looking right thru them. ( a bit of back-story, my sister basically did everything wrong, and now her 18 year old daughter is using drugs and dating drug dealers..etc..etc....)

All you can do, is let them know that you are their, for them, if push comes to shove. Manipulative friends, and bullies are some of those life lessons they need to sort out for themselves.

I do know, that the more self confident a person is, the LESS likely they are to fall prey to those types of people.

[Riverratt]

I have spoiled my beautiful, affectionate daughter because she had two liver transplants when she was little. *I told myself that if she lived, I would do my best for her. *Once, when her boyfriend dumped her, I bought her Gucci sunglasses ($300), MAC makeup ($150), A&F clothes ($600), and Guess clothes ($400). *Did it help her broken heart? *No. *I won't do that again.

As for public schools, I communicated well with the elementary and middle schools, but not the high schools. *It was the same with my son. *The public high schools are worthless. *My daughter tells me that every day at least two police cars are at school picking up some miscreants. *One day I went to pick her up at school when she was sick, and I saw two police cars in front of the school patting down and handcuffing a rough-looking student. *Most of the problems, however, are with the worthless parents of these delinquents. *It worries me that more and more politicians are telling parents that they don't have to be responsible for their children, that society is. *It seems like the first stage of "A Clockwork Orange."



If their was ever a good reason to spoil a child, that was it. May you be blessed.

[mind_wander]

* I do admire this post and very interesting. As for the first bolded, being in college, still new transfer students trying to fit in and glad to make peace with them. Hey, we all been there, as the new person in school, not pretty. As for the second bolded, I can't help break out laughing, hmm it seems you son got no choice, but used your method. Son: Darn it, dad why punish me, if I didn't start it. Dad: Because you didn't stand up for yourself thats why.

I got a question for INTJ parents. Lets say your son or daughter brought in a so called friend into your home. Now, as in INTJ, your children are friendly people, so they didn't know this so called friend at first glance without *knowing its a coercive friend. Something you don't want to mess with and very manipulative too, even fool the children parents.

Here is a great example, "This so called friend, lets call him Rick, while he is standing next to your child, then when you turned around to go find something. Rick punched your child for kicks and giggles. When you come back, Rick pretend, as nothing has happened. Using the kids are kids approach, so maybe at the back of your mind, maybe their having fun. Until you notice so many bruises on your child."
The Kicker: RememberRick is very manipulative and has lying charisma capability, telling on their parents or the police will not work; Rick will by pass it.

So as a INTJ parent, how will you resolve this?

Yea, your right about SOUNDING like I would punish my son (or daughter) for that matter, if they did not take their part. *But that is not the case, I did tell them that "They KNEW what to do, and only they can do it, somethings I just cannot help you with" (with the exception of other adults)

There will be no consequences from me, if they do NOT stand up to bullies. If he don't.....He will be living in his own private hell, nothing I can do to really help him, besides giving him a wide berth as possible to "deal with the problem"

As for the manipulative friend, All you can hope to do is equip your kids, while they are young, to see that some people will try to take advantage of the situation. Teach them when they are young, make examples out of people you know. I have a niece that has REALLY SCREWED up her life, in the past 6 months, she became an abject lesson for my children, of how NOT, to do things.

It is as simple of saying "Daughter, you really don't want to do THAT, do you want to end up like (insert black sheep family member's name here)??

Or... I am so glad you have such a good head on your shoulders, I can see I don't need to worry about you like (bad family members parent's name here) does.

I have found out that making examples, both good and bad, about people your kids know, is a TREMENDOUS, and powerful tool, to teaching my children about the different situations they will encounter in life...BUT...Sometimes it can make for , uncomfortable situations..

For example, a while back, my son (7 at the time)was talking to my sister on the phone, and he point blank told her that "She needed to be a better parent, and keep his cousin off drugs, and out of trouble" . *:suspicious: *So becarfull with this approach, It can make family get togethers..ehmm uncomfortable.

Especially when my much older sisters, have told me that they fear what my children will say. And they feel like when my kids look at them, that they are looking right thru them. ( a bit of back-story, my sister basically did everything wrong, and now her 18 year old daughter is using drugs and dating drug dealers..etc..etc....)

All you can do, is let them know that you are their, for them, if push comes to shove. Manipulative friends, and bullies are some of those life lessons they need to sort out for themselves.

I do know, that the more self confident a person is, the LESS likely they are to fall prey to those types of people.
Interesting, thanx for sharing your thoughts. Something less to think about in the future, as a partner one day.

[maai]

My oldest son was a football jock, intelligent (A+) and very popular. My daughter was a cheerleader, intelligent (A++) and very popular. I gave both lectures about mistreating/talking about others and it seems to have sunk in. I would never have condoned being a bully. Very proud of both.