INTJs and Feminism

[DrEast]

Hello all! I was thinking about the issue today, and I realized that if I were thrust into traditional female gender roles, I would go completely insane. I do poorly enough at traditional male roles as it is. Take away autonomy and independence and I'd simply freak out.

I have always had a significant amount of sympathy for the "everyday" feminist, who insists that females are just as valid as males in any role they choose to undertake, a position I strongly agree with. However, being a strongly conservative individual, I've found myself deeply at odds with "diehard" feminists, political or theological, who wish to construe every event in history through the eyes of a collectivist gender warfare. Being a single male this is all somewhat academic to me in any event.

But this is the question I have... how many female INTJs become everyday feminists out of simple self-preservation? And how far do they take it?

[Haphazard]

I can see the societal advantages of taking gender roles, but nonetheless I cringe at the idea of having to follow them.

Societies need certain roles to be fulfilled -- that's a given. Unfortunately, societies have a tendency to pidgeonhole certain people into certain roles, one of the biggest being female/male differences, probably because it's an extremely obvious physical division.

Just because it makes some developmental sense doesn't make it right. INTJs alone are constantly being forced into societal positions that they don't want to be in, keeping it stiff enough to keep gender roles only makes it worse. If somebody's competent and proficient at something, then they better damn well ought to do it. If she'd make a good politician, let her be a politician, if he'd be a good kindergartener teacher, let him be a kindergartener teacher.

I have done a lot of thinking on the subject... gender stereotypes go both ways, and it does sicken me. Human society has been divided for too long, and I'm willing to bet that it's the cause of half the social problems today. I don't believe that historically gender warfare was significant in a negative way, like 'femenazis' do, but I do believe that a significant amount of social damage has been done to societies because of gender roles and that most of these problems have developed through history because of the genders being inherently separated by societies.

[sriv]

I am not willing to oblige to the feminist movement. I will treat females the same as males in the same circumstances. I only treat females more nicely because they tend to treat me more nicely.

[Antares]

I don't consider myself a feminist; nor have I signed up for anything like a feminist movement. I don't feel the need to participate in such causes. I mean, I would push for equal rights and welfare of women here in China (it's appalling), but if it were men who were suffering gender discrimination, I would do the same for them. I hate prejudices, and this sentence is quite ironic, I know.

[HeterodoxRobot]

I consider myself to be a sexist feminist.

I think, generally speaking, women are more trustworthy and knowledgeable than their male counterparts. I think that men are the "expendable" sex. I think women are inherently more complex....hmm what else??

Well, that's it for now.



Oh, and regarding most sexually reproducing species, females pwn men!!!

[sriv]

I excuse your ENFPness.

[HeterodoxRobot]

I excuse your ENFPness.
I excuse your, embarrassingly lacking in genes, Y-chromosome-ness.

[cda]

I agree with the first wave of feminism - right to vote and a large portion of the second wave - empowering women in the work place (The Butch thing is a bit of a turn off). This new third wave feminism irritates me, I have no problem with women being successful, independent and powerful, but then to demand their rights as traditional females on top of that??? Ridiculous.

[Nanashi]

Were you talking about me? I'm an INTJ female who was homeschooled by an INFP mom. She was in to fairies and beauty and the image of a woman being delicate and having rose scent permeating her body--as far as I can tell, but she encouraged me for being creative and driven and individualistic. Regardless, I still had the 'weak girl in pink' image to contend with my whole life. That was an ideal of femininity that was often, if not always, lurking on the edge of my reality. I finally became a feminist during my first few years in college. I felt it was just a natural response when I'd been raised that a girl and a boy were both worthy and also capable. A difficulty for me has been that my mother looks like she smells something bad when she hears 'feminist'. Did the last generation have more negative shit to deal with from or more negative propaganda about feminists? I label myself egalitarian often. It seems to be a better and more respectful/inclusive name.

I have felt annoyed or punished by the gender role division frequently. I also sympathize with guys dealing with it. Most of my friends are male, and I see what they deal with. I'm attracted to men that are often not stereotypically 'masculine' in every area.

[TheLastMohican]

I consider myself to be a sexist feminist.

I think, generally speaking, women are more trustworthy and knowledgeable than their male counterparts. I think that men are the "expendable" sex. I think women are inherently more complex....hmm what else??

Well, that's it for now.



Oh, and regarding most sexually reproducing species, females pwn men!!!

What is your basis for such beliefs?

[sriv]

What is your basis for such beliefs?

Inordinate amounts of F most likely.

[HeterodoxRobot]

What is your basis for such beliefs?

My observations, past experiences, and my studies in biology have all led me to formulate these beliefs regarding the inherent differences found between both the male and female sexes.

Inordinate amounts of F most likely.
Cute, but no.

[Haphazard]

I naively believe that all people are equal therefore deserve equal treatment. Even though I've been proven wrong again and again on this point, I still believe it.

That can likely be attributed to high amounts of F.

[DrEast]

I excuse your, embarrassingly lacking in genes, Y-chromosome-ness.

And yet, it's the Y chromosome that determines the gender of the resulting progeny!

Just think, it is only by your father's grace that you are not a male yourself.

[sriv]

I naively believe that all people are equal therefore deserve equal treatment. Even though I've been proven wrong again and again on this point, I still believe it.

That can likely be attributed to high amounts of F.

I would modify that to all people are equal at first impression and deserve equal treatment then. Later, maybe not. Too much F is definitely a killer.

*waits for robot's pitiful rebuttal*

[Haphazard]

I would modify that to all people are equal at first impression and deserve equal treatment then. Later, maybe not. Too much F is definitely a killer.

Well, I'd like to believe in the equality, but then I get to know people and wonder what the fuck was I thinking. Call me naive.

It seems like a lot of people here forget that INTJs have Fi as auxilary function. Se likely accounts for me never learning when it comes to people.

[TheLastMohican]

Well, I'd like to believe in the equality, but then I get to know people and wonder what the f*** was I thinking. Call me naive.


No offense, but continuing to believe something that has been repeatedly proven wrong is not naivete. It is then (gasp) stupidity.

[Haphazard]

No offense, but continuing to believe something that has been repeatedly proven wrong is not niavete. It is then (gasp) stupidity.

I'm too nice to myself. I'm stupid. :p

The only thing throughout history that really pisses me off on this issue is all the men who blamed their wives for not giving them male heirs. Oh, if only they had known, if only they had known...

[TheLastMohican]

I'm too nice to myself. I'm stupid. :p

I think not. But if you are, then it is relegated only to certain aspects of your personality, allowing you to recognize its reality.

The only thing throughout history that really pisses me off on this issue is all the men who blamed their wives for not giving them male heirs. Oh, if only they had known, if only they had known...

Actually they knew all they needed to know. They knew that the women could not choose, and they had no control over it.

People like that ESTP Henry VIII found it wonderfully convenient to claim that the wives must have been influenced by Satan. That cleared up so much of that confusing stuff like probability theory.

[Darkmist]

Equality baby, that's where it's at. I am no better and no worse than any man. But I do possess abilities, natural and learned, that give me an advantage over men in various arenas. Men likewise with me. We have different bodies, and biological, evolutionary growths and hence are not the same. That doesn't bother me. What does immensely is being told that I can't do something I can when no one bothers to assess the actual situation regarding my personal strengths and weaknesses.

That, and the bullshit of women riding in the backseat (of their own car, mind you) together so the men folk can have the front. I want to kick their arrogant, unworthy asses all the way through the windshield.


Yes that was personal. My ISTP brother-in-law does that to me all the time. So does the remainder of his annoying S family, except my husband (not S) who laughs and does what they want.

Wrings hands and fumes . . .