The CIA

[meanlittlechimp]

Discuss anything you guys want to about them. I'll start.

Operation Paperclip: Recruited Nazis, while the rest of the world hunts them down, so we can incorporate their techniques in our reportoire. I'm not talking about the scientists (like Von Braun), but the specifically the torturers, assassins, and thugs - like Klaus Barbie (and several thousand other Nazis we hid from prosecution); to be relocated in South and Central America, to use their tactics to covertly subjugate Latin America.

[blueback]

Hey, if it works, then the ends must justify the means.

[meanlittlechimp]

Why do you say it's working? I think it has in some instances, and not in others.

[merid]

Sometimes I do wonder what personality type the idiots in charge are.

Wasn't the CONTRA affair the CIA?

As for the ends justifying the means, you have to ask, who's end means that its justified?

[ShaiGar]

The CIA supports the USA Investment Infrastructure. That is all.
It is highly effective in this role.

[SeaCzar]

Discuss anything you guys want to about them. I'll start.

Operation Paperclip: Recruited Nazis, while the rest of the world hunts them down, so we can incorporate their techniques in our reportoire. I'm not talking about the scientists (like Von Braun), but the specifically the torturers, assassins, and thugs - like Klaus Barbie (and several thousand other Nazis we hid from prosecution); to be relocated in South and Central America, to use their tactics to covertly subjugate Latin America.


I must admit, you have a very vivid imagination. Do you stay awake all night thinking up this twaddle?

[ShaiGar]

Uhmm, how about before calling it twaddle you attempt to debunk it. It's accurate information.


Personally I don't see what was wrong with the Nazi's they only did what everyone else in history has tried to do. Build and empire and kill the undesirables. The only difference is they lost, oh and were more efficient. I liked that efficiency.

[meanlittlechimp]

I must admit, you have a very vivid imagination. Do you stay awake all night thinking up this twaddle?

It's been declassified information for quite some time. There are several members of the State Department and CIA who have admitted this publicly (William Blum-State Dept, Navy Rear Admiral Bird, Milton Bearden-CIA, among others).

But go ahead, put your head back up your ass, and assume anything you are too dimwitted to be aware of - is "twaddle".

"Project Paperclip 1947-1973
(a.k.a. operation paperclip)
After WW2, the US government deliberately thwarted attempts to bring to justice Nazi scientists who were guilty of war crimes. The government imported them to continue their research in the US. Former Nazi scientists (like Werner von Braun) contributed greatly to the development of rockets, atomic & chemical weapons, psychology, economics, jet planes, and torture techniques. At least 1,600 scientists and their dependents were recruited and brought to the United States by Paperclip and its successor projects through the early 1970s. Many ex-Nazis used humans in their experiments in the states, many of the subjects suffered adverse health effects. Project Paperclip has links to both MK-ULTRA and human radiation experiments.

Nazi spies were also included in the exodus. The most important of these is Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's master spy who had built up an intelligence network in the Soviet Union. With full U.S. blessing, he creates the "Gehlen Organization," a band of refugee Nazi spies who reactivate their networks in Russia. These include SS intelligence officers Alfred Six and Emil Augsburg (who massacred Jews in the Holocaust), Klaus Barbie (the "Butcher of Lyon"), Otto von Bolschwing (the Holocaust mastermind who worked with Eichmann) and SS Colonel Otto Skorzeny (a personal friend of Hitler''s). The Gehlen Organization supplies the U.S. with its only intelligence on the Soviet Union for the next ten years. However, much of the "intelligence" the former Nazis provide is bogus. Gehlen inflates Soviet military capabilities at a time when Russia is still rebuilding its devastated society, in order to inflate his own importance to the Americans. Their actions were largely responsible for the Cold War."

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Wasn't the CONTRA affair the CIA?

Not that time, it was the Executive Branch (I think). Though most conservatives would have denied that possibility to their dying breath too, if they didn't get caught red handed.

Selling Arms to Iran to overthrow legitimate governments (to skirt congressional approval). Don't forget all the cocaine sold using military resources, to procure additional monies; by the same people who started the "Drug War". Would be almost funny, if it wasn't done with my tax money.

I'm assuming no one is denying this happened, so I don't have to provide links on this.

[qwerty]

Discuss anything you guys want to about them. I'll start.

Operation Paperclip: Recruited Nazis, while the rest of the world hunts them down, so we can incorporate their techniques in our reportoire. I'm not talking about the scientists (like Von Braun), but the specifically the torturers, assassins, and thugs - like Klaus Barbie (and several thousand other Nazis we hid from prosecution); to be relocated in South and Central America, to use their tactics to covertly subjugate Latin America.

So you're a nazi in hiding?

[meanlittlechimp]

Found this pretty good list, a few minutes ago of CIA covert actions that some of you may, or may not be, aware of. I can say that I've seen more detailed and definitive proof on most of these events, when I used to read foreign policy journals all the time.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Some highlights:

1948
Covert-action wing created — The CIA recreates a covert action wing, innocuously called the Office of Policy Coordination, led by Wall Street lawyer Frank Wisner. According to its secret charter, its responsibilities include "propaganda, economic warfare, preventive direct action, including sabotage, antisabotage, demolition and evacuation procedures; subversion against hostile states, including assistance to underground resistance groups, and support of indigenous anti-communist elements in threatened countries of the free world."

1949
Radio Free Europe — The CIA creates its first major propaganda outlet, Radio Free Europe. Over the next several decades, its broadcasts are so blatantly false that for a time it is considered illegal to publish transcripts of them in the U.S.

1954
Guatemala — CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.

1961
Dominican Republic — The CIA assassinates Rafael Trujillo, a murderous dictator Washington has supported since 1930. Trujillo’s business interests have grown so large (about 60 percent of the economy) that they have begun competing with American business interests.

Congo (Zaire) — The CIA assassinates the democratically elected Patrice Lumumba. However, public support for Lumumba’s politics runs so high that the CIA cannot clearly install his opponents in power. Four years of political turmoil follow.

1957-1973
Laos — The CIA carries out approximately one coup per year trying to nullify Laos’ democratic elections. The problem is the Pathet Lao, a leftist group with enough popular support to be a member of any coalition government. In the late 50s, the CIA even creates an "Armee Clandestine" of Asian mercenaries to attack the Pathet Lao. After the CIA’s army suffers numerous defeats, the U.S. starts bombing, dropping more bombs on Laos than all the U.S. bombs dropped in World War II. A quarter of all Laotians will eventually become refugees, many living in caves.

1963
Dominican Republic — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Juan Bosch in a military coup. The CIA installs a repressive, right-wing junta.

Ecuador — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows President Arosemana, whose independent (not socialist) policies have become unacceptable to Washington. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

1967
Greece — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government two days before the elections. The favorite to win was George Papandreous, the liberal candidate. During the next six years, the "reign of the colonels" — backed by the CIA — will usher in the widespread use of torture and murder against political opponents. When a Greek ambassador objects to President Johnson about U.S. plans for Cypress, Johnson tells him: "Fuck your parliament and your constitution."

1968
Operation CHAOS — The CIA has been illegally spying on American citizens since 1959, but with Operation CHAOS, President Johnson dramatically boosts the effort. CIA agents go undercover as student radicals to spy on and disrupt campus organizations protesting the Vietnam War. They are searching for Russian instigators, which they never find. CHAOS will eventually spy on 7,000 individuals and 1,000 organizations.

1970
Cambodia — The CIA overthrows Prince Sahounek, who is highly popular among Cambodians for keeping them out of the Vietnam War. He is replaced by CIA puppet Lon Nol, who immediately throws Cambodian troops into battle. This unpopular move strengthens once minor opposition parties like the Khmer Rouge, which achieves power in 1975 and massacres millions of its own people.

1971
Bolivia — After half a decade of CIA-inspired political turmoil, a CIA-backed military coup overthrows the leftist President Juan Torres. In the next two years, dictator Hugo Banzer will have over 2,000 political opponents arrested without trial, then tortured, raped and executed.

1975
Australia — The CIA helps topple the democratically elected, left-leaning government of Prime Minister Edward Whitlam. The CIA does this by giving an ultimatum to its Governor-General, John Kerr. Kerr, a longtime CIA collaborator, exercises his constitutional right to dissolve the Whitlam government. The Governor-General is a largely ceremonial position appointed by the Queen; the Prime Minister is democratically elected. The use of this archaic and never-used law stuns the nation.

1986
Haiti — Rising popular revolt in Haiti means that "Baby Doc" Duvalier will remain "President for Life" only if he has a short one. The U.S., which hates instability in a puppet country, flies the despotic Duvalier to the South of France for a comfortable retirement. The CIA then rigs the upcoming elections in favor of another right-wing military strongman. However, violence keeps the country in political turmoil for another four years. The CIA tries to strengthen the military by creating the National Intelligence Service (SIN), which suppresses popular revolt through torture and assassination.

[TheLastMohican]

The funniest (real) declassified CIA operation I know of was the one involving Fidel Castro. There was actually a CIA plan to put a weak poison in Castro's food that would cause his beard to fall out. The idea was that his beard was somehow crucial to his public image, and his hairless face would weaken his power.

[SeaCzar]

Hey, if it works, then the ends must justify the means.

I agree with this. Along with other conspiracy types, such liberals are always blaming America first. Regardless of anything the CIA may have done over the years, it pales into comparison its Stalinist and Maoist counterparts. I'll bet he also believes Bush planned and executed Sept 11th. Too bad good old Uncle Joe is no longer around so he can sing his praises. Oh, by the way, I hate to break this to him, but there is no Easter Bunny.

[meanlittlechimp]

The funniest (real) declassified CIA operation I know of was the one involving Fidel Castro. There was actually a CIA plan to put a weak poison in Castro's food that would cause his beard to fall out. The idea was that his beard was somehow crucial to his public image, and his hairless face would weaken his power.

That's actually a new one for me, though I wouldn't put it past em. It's almost as if they hired dumb frat boys to come up with this stuff.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"The most spectacular of the plots against Castro will be examined in a Channel 4 documentary entitled 638 Ways to Kill Castro, as well as in a companion book of the same name written by the now-retired Escalante - a man who, while in his post as head of the Cuban secret service, played a personal part in heading off a number of the plots. While the exploding cigar that was intended to blow up in Castro's face is perhaps the best-known of the attempts on his life, others have been equally bizarre.

Knowing his fascination for scuba-diving off the coast of Cuba, the CIA at one time invested in a large volume of Caribbean molluscs. The idea was to find a shell big enough to contain a lethal quantity of explosives, which would then be painted in colours lurid and bright enough to attract Castro's attention when he was underwater. Documents released under the Clinton administration confirm that this plan was considered but, like many others, did not make it far from the drawing-board. Another aborted plot related to Castro's underwater activities was for a diving-suit to be prepared for him that would be infected with a fungus that would cause a chronic and debilitating skin disease."
Regardless of anything the CIA may have done over the years, it pales into comparison its Stalinist and Maoist counterparts.

The are two major differences:

(1) Awareness: when you talk about Stalin and Mao, everyone knows they were mass murderers (including their own populace). The difference is when you talk about the CIA or US actions, you're a conspiracy theorist, unpatriotic, or talking twaddle.

(2) Stalin and Mao mostly killed their own people. The US government has killed FAR more people OUTSIDE their country, than the Russian or Chinese governments COMBINED during the same period (post WWII).
I'll bet he also believes Bush planned and executed Sept 11th..

Nice one, since you can't discredit what I've brought up; make up something almost no one believes (except for a few nutjobs, who deny the holocaust as well); and imply I'm a conspiracy theorist that way.

Who did you say was talking twaddle???
I hate to break this to him, but there is no Easter Bunny.
Really? You guys are the ones that seem to be attracted to religion, and political parties that want to ignore separation of church and state, and you tell me... I'm prone to religious fairytales?
Along with other conspiracy types, such liberals are always blaming America first..
Very similar to your 9/11 reasoning. Criticize anything but what I've ACTUALLY said, which implies you can't discredit anything I HAVE said. Instead, your new defense is I have an irrational compulsion to blame America first.

Do you have any ideas or thoughts that aren't jingoist cliches?

If the US wants to carpet bomb Vietnam and I don't agree, then I'm anti-American and hate my own country? Disagreement equals lack of patriotism? Why do conservatives have to be so fucking simplistic all the time. Anytime you guys want to attack a country, and we disagree, the same ridiculous rhetoric comes out.

The Republican approach is blame THEM first, via pre-emptive strike; then blame them afterwards, while they're doing all the dying. Same way you can call them terrorists, while the death ratio is 10,000 to 1 in our favor. I call them like I see 'em. I am not a socialist/communist. I am not anti-american. I am pretty sure I believe in democracy and capitalism more than you do, or ever will.

[Vayate]

The more I hear about the CIA and its political meddling, the more I want to work for them. =/ Bastards never got back to me when I submitted for an internship.

[meanlittlechimp]

This is a much better site with more detailed analysis and sources (though some of it predates the CIA).
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some excerpts:

Guatemala

"We have created a more humanitarian, less costly strategy, to be more compatible with the democratic system. We instituted civil affairs [in 1982] which provides development for 70 percent of the population, while we kill 30 percent. Before, the strategy was to kill 100 percent."

--General Hector Gramajo, 1980s Guatemalan Minister of Defense, interview with Harvard International Review,


1898-1914: The Phillipines

U.S. Brig. Gen. Jacob H. Smith:"I want no prisoners. I wish you to kill and burn, the more you kill and burn the better you will please me. I want all persons killed who are capable of bearing arms in actual hostilities against the United States."
Major Littleton W. T. Waller: How young?
Smith:Ten years and up.

--Exchange on October 1901, quote from the testimony at Smith's court martial by the New York Evening Journal (May 5, 1902). General Smith, a veteran of the Wounded Knee massacre, was popularly known as "Hell Roaring Jake" or "Howling Wilderness".

The "Benevolent Assimilation Proclamation" of the McKinley presidency in 1899 annouced America's intention to be the benevolent dictator over various foreign nations that just happened to all be filled with ruthless, pagan savages.

In a savage conflict America repressed the Filipino independence movement. As in most cases of massacre on the part of the US the number of casualties remains a matter of debate; in this instance 5,000 (of some 120,000 involved) Americans killed with additional casualties later due to disease contracted in the Phillipines, but anywhere between 16,000-20,000 Filipino soldiers and 200,000-600,000 civilian Filipino deaths resulted due to the war, war induced famine, disease, and multiple atrocities, but one would be mistaken to describe the conflict as characterized by brutality. The US continued occupying the Phillipines for another 48 years.


This I actually had no idea about before I read it on the site. I am not as sure about this as I am with some of the others, but I plan on researching this further...


Korea: 1945

The USG, with Japanese and South Korean collaborators (under Syngman Rhee - a Korean-American chosen by Chiang Kai Shek to preside over South Korea - curtesy Washington DC), slaughtered one third of the population of Cheju Island in anti-communist purges during the occupation of South Korea from 1945 to 1949. The repression of the population by US, ROK, and Japanese forces purged anywhere between 100,000 and 800,000 'suspected leftists' in the civillian population.

Among other things the anti-communist policy of the USG and the cooperation against the formation of an independent, unified Korea by both Soviets and Americans lead to the North Korean invasion on June 25th, 1950. During the war the USG deliberately targetted civillians caught in the war path, and with some 4 million casualties between all players in the war well over half were civillian casualties.

[ShaiGar]

1975
Australia — The CIA helps topple the democratically elected, left-leaning government of Prime Minister Edward Whitlam. The CIA does this by giving an ultimatum to its Governor-General, John Kerr. Kerr, a longtime CIA collaborator, exercises his constitutional right to dissolve the Whitlam government. The Governor-General is a largely ceremonial position appointed by the Queen; the Prime Minister is democratically elected. The use of this archaic and never-used law stuns the nation.

I want proof of this. I do not believe it happened because if it did then the Australian Labour Party would use it to completely destroy it's rival the Liberal/National Coalition. News like that, especially substantiated news like that, would annihilate the USA/Aus alliance.

[meanlittlechimp]

I want proof of this. I do not believe it happened because if it did then the Australian Labour Party would use it to completely destroy it's rival the Liberal/National Coalition. News like that, especially substantiated news like that, would annihilate the USA/Aus alliance.

Yeah that was one of the ones, I never heard anything about. I actually made a list of ones to do further research on, over the weekend. There were 7 or 8 others, I wanted to do as well.

I was also surprised about Greece, but a workmate, who is Greek, says it's pretty well known there (re: US actions in the 60's).

Here is a link I found re: Whitlan:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Satellite control centre in the desert

DSD runs some of the world's most famous spying bases, including Pine Gap, an isolated satellite control centre near Alice Springs in the middle of the hot central Australian desert "outback". For more than 30 years, Pine Gap has controlled the CIA's electronic listening satellites, called Rhyolite, Aquacade and Magnum.

Australians have long suspected that the CIA-run station spied on their communications. The use and control of Pine Gap by the CIA was a central issue in the overthrow of radical labour Prime Minister Gough Whitlam in 1975. The Australian government now claims that after years of controversy, Australians are in charge. They also say that a former "American-only" communications centre on the base has been closed down, and that Australian staff now see everything the CIA satellites do. "

Not sure if I neccessarily believe this one, though. It's hard for me to imagine the CIA doing this, in terms of INSTIGATING the overthrow. I could see them aiding the candidate of their choice - by passing on information using their spy satellites, however.

Oh this is interesting... I think this is how the controversy started in the first place. They have transcripts of the full interviews here....

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ian Wood: And so, Australia's internal political crisis was
resolved with the Liberals sweeping to power in the December 1975
election. But was it internal? Almost two years later on the eve
of the trial in America of former intelligence worker Christopher
Boyce it was revealed that a CIA telex had been sent to ASIO
headquarters in Australia just two days before the dismissal of the
Whitlam government.

Kelly Johnson: It was sent by Ted Shackley, who was the head of
the East Asia Division of the CIA, to ASIO in the days prior to
November 11th. It was essentially an order to ASIO to shut Whitlam
up or get rid of him because on the afternoon of November 11 he was
planning to announce in Parliament that Pine Gap was run by the CIA
and the CIA were extremely reluctant to have this information
released.

Ian Wood: Kelly Johnson of the Christopher Boyce Alliance. In May
1977 in America former intelligence operative Christopher Boyce was
put on trial accused of spying for the Russians. He was convicted
and sentenced to the legal maximum of 40 years jail. Several years
later Boyce escaped and was eventually recaptured after being on
the run for 18 months. Boyce had been a telex operator in 1975 for
a private security company, TRW, in California which had close
links with the CIA. His job was to send and receive telexes
between agents in Australia and CIA headquarters in Langley,
Virginia. Boyce's story incidentally was told in the film THE
FALCON AND THE SNOWMAN. Well, Channel 9 in Sydney were good enough
to give us permission to re-broadcast key parts of an exclusive
interview with Boyce by Sixty Minutes' Ray Martin in 1982 in which
Boyce explained how the CIA's deception of Australia was the key
reason he began selling information to the Russians.

[HackerX]

I want proof of this. I do not believe it happened because if it did then the Australian Labour Party would use it to completely destroy it's rival the Liberal/National Coalition. News like that, especially substantiated news like that, would annihilate the USA/Aus alliance.

The CIA kidnapped Harold Holt too

[meanlittlechimp]

I actually looked into that a long time ago. I couldn't find any real sources, to back up Holt. I think it was extremely unlikely.

Almost all the credible veterans from the CIA, DIA, State Dept that end up talking; almost always agree on the same things. They have no reason to fabricate lies against their own government - and it would it be incredibly stupid to do so.

[ShaiGar]

The CIA kidnapped Harold Holt too

Yeah, I'd always assumed that HH took one look at the australian citizenry, and thought "screw these idiots" and just organised a way out.