The appeal of ESXX types

[MichaelH]

I am happily married, but I've noticed something disturbing. The guys I'm attracted to tend to be ES-- types: outgoing without a lot of internal dialogue. Some of the appeal is the self-confidence Es project, and the clarity the S provides. (It's a shallow clarity, to be sure, but...) A switch somewhere in my brain flips and says, "This is a guy you want to sleep with."

My rational mind knows better, but I get this weird pull from animal magnetism. Do others have the same experience?

[Yersinia]

Quite the contrary! I like shy guys having a slightly geek touch. They are good for talk about philosophy and science.
More importantly, it's cute to observe how clueless they are concerning love matters. :lovestruck: Hihi it's so much fun to teach him this kind of stuff. :P

[ShaiGar]

You've gotta be an INFP.

[orange]

Quite the contrary! I like shy guys having a slightly geek touch. They are good for talk about philosophy and science.
More importantly, it's cute to observe how clueless they are concerning love matters. *:lovestruck: Hihi it's so much fun to teach him this kind of stuff. *:P

....shy... check
....touch of geek... check
....clueless about love... check (although aparently can still give really good relationship advice)

* * we must be soul mates *:thumbsup: *;)

ok... on topic now I guess. *The girl I like is an xSTJ but almost always tests as an E (but not by much). I like her because she's *smart, really nice, and confident.

[Yersinia]

You've gotta be an INFP.
Hmm...but the result was INTJ. *shrugg* I dunno...actually it may depend on my moods.

@orange: soulmates? :D who knows...but I actually found mine.

[ShaiGar]

okeys you an infp :-[

[Yersinia]

okeys you an infp :-[
Why?? :-?
Edit:Sorry off topic. Just forget this post. :scared:

[MichaelH]

I'm willing to divert the thread. Why do you think Yersina is an INFP?

She (assuming gender from the nickname):
1. Likes guys for "philosophy and science" talk." Most definitely not an F trait, and probably not a P. Sounds at least "T" to me.
2. Enjoys that she can teach the clueless INTJ males about love matters. I don't know about other INTJs, but I enjoy seeing people learn something new, and I don't mind teaching when they want to learn.

Whereas an INFP would:
1. Find philosophy and science talk boring because it doesn't relate to their internal good-vs-evil struggle.
2. Become disappointed over time that the (clueless) INTJ male didn't live up their rosy self-built image of him.

Disclaimers:
I'm not implying that all INTJ males are clueless about love, just that Y enjoys teaching the ones that are.

[Yersinia]

Wow..I totally agree. Even I couldn't explain it so perfectly as you did *bowinadmiration*

[Rei]

Yeah...
I think the confidence and 'clarity' just immediately seems like he'd provide security.

Quite the contrary! I like shy guys having a slightly geek touch. They are good for talk about philosophy and science.
More importantly, it's cute to observe how clueless they are concerning love matters. Hihi it's so much fun to teach him this kind of stuff.
I don't see how only shy guys can provide good talks. It's not the I that stimulates good/philosophical talks, it's the T.
My ESTJ buddy definitely gives me great perspectives on philosophical matters and has a rather interesting understanding of science concepts. I like that they simplify things, it makes my life so much easier.
Clueless about love matters? Frankly I couldn't care less. I'm clueless concerning love matters... what do you mean by "love matters" anyway? :-/

I think she's an F simply because she actually has the ability/desire to teach someone about 'love matters'
That's all too romantic in my head to be T... You can't just teach someone these things... Someone's been watching too much anime ;D

Become disappointed over time? We don't know about her love life... it is possible.

NB: she is a girl, go to the "pictures of you" thread.

EDIT:
Spiritual, sensitive and committed, INFJs enjoy being of service to others.... Artistic and creative, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities.... INFJ is a natural nurturer; patient, devoted and protective.

[mind_wander]

Quite the contrary! I like shy guys having a slightly geek touch. They are good for talk about philosophy and science.
More importantly, it's cute to observe how clueless they are concerning love matters. *:lovestruck: Hihi it's so much fun to teach him this kind of stuff. *:P

....shy... check
....touch of geek... check
....clueless about love... check (although aparently can still give really good relationship advice)

* * we must be soul mates *:thumbsup: *;)

ok... on topic now I guess. *The girl I like is an xSTJ but almost always tests as an E (but not by much). I like her because she's *smart, really nice, and confident.
Same here, 3 checks. But, I can deal with females too.
Really, I am not really sure what kind of personality type I'm attracted too. As long she is very opened-minded, nice and friendly, take things as not what it is, but what can you perceive as; hey come toward my direction. *Warning: Don't let my coldside fool you, in reality I like you.

But get along well with others, as for more talkative type more leading toward ENTJ, ESFJ, ENFJ, etc. Well there is an E , but they seem to claim they are introverted; this one puzzles me, so its pulls me in as a sucker.

[toonia]

I had a few ESXX guys pursue me relentlessly back in the day, but i ended up running away from them. They gave me a trapped, pressured feeling. I like the nerds. :-* And like Yersinia said, it is endearing to see them socially fumble a bit. It's easier to trust someone who presents themselves honestly and with flaws. I'm attracted to intelligent men - very intelligent men. Not the ones who think they are smart, but the ones who are intelligent to the point of not fitting into society quite right. I get woefully bored with people who have all the expected lines and rituals socially. I like people who are a little *off*, and who see the world uniquely. It's a mental adventure getting to know them. For some reason I am also drawn to men who are a little out of touch with themselves physically because they are so cerebral. For some reason it is more exciting to draw them out.

[MichaelH]

I think the confidence and 'clarity' just immediately seems like he'd provide security.

You are probably on to something there. Maybe I deeply want someone to give me the security to be me? (That is, a secure "space" within which I can operate autonomously.) Sounds like I'm looking for someone very "Daddy"-ish. heh.

[Yersinia]

Clueless about love matters? Frankly I couldn't care less. I'm clueless concerning love matters... what do you mean by "love matters" anyway? :-/
As they're introverted and shy they don't have many experiences with girls. In this case love matters mean the physical thing. :P


I think she's an F simply because she actually has the ability/desire to teach someone about 'love matters'
That's all too romantic in my head to be T... You can't just teach someone these things... Someone's been watching too much anime ;D
Ability/desire to teach? Well, actually I meant that it's fun to introduce a clueless geek into love matters (see for definition above).^^ As the process of introduction is very pleasing and funny.
Romantic? I'm not very romantic. I'm only driven by my 'pursuit of pleasure'. Of course you can't teach being romantic, honestly, this is not what I want.
Animes? I love animes can't get enough of this stuff. ;D



Become disappointed over time? We don't know about her love life... it is possible.
No, it's hard to disappoint me as I always expect the worst. Hmm..do you really want to know about my love life? This would not be suitable for under 18s.



EDIT:
Spiritual, sensitive and committed, INFJs enjoy being of service to others.... Artistic and creative, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities.... INFJ is a natural nurturer; patient, devoted and protective.
I don't enjoy being of service to others I just take what makes me feel good. Hidden meaning and possibilities? Well, I always tell what I want.

[toonia]

EDIT:
Spiritual, sensitive and committed, INFJs enjoy being of service to others.... Artistic and creative, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities.... INFJ is a natural nurturer; patient, devoted and protective.
I don't enjoy being of service to others I just take what makes me feel good. Hidden meaning and possibilities? Well, I always tell what I want.
This is interesting.

The following are observations from the past three years or so of online involvement on these personality sites. I keep noticing that when a man claims to be a T, this is immediately accepted. When a woman claims to be a T, she is immediately challenged. Women who push back very aggressively will then be accepted as a T by the online group. If she doesn't initially make the claim, or initially makes a claim of F, then this process of aggressive social dominance will be required for a more extended period before she is proven as a T. Thinking preferences are about reasoning, not bullying. A case can be made that social aggression is actually more of a Feeling motivated behavior. It is very often reasonable to show consideration if this is the course that provides the best result. One could expect that a woman with a strong T preference will behave in the most reasonable manner in most contexts.

edit: I wonder if this is a direct extension of society's tendency to not take women's thinking as seriously as men. Increased assertiveness is the means irl by which women gain credibility. With societal norms of women communicating with more emotional overtones and with maternal nurturing instincts, one could make a reasonable case that INTJ women, on average, would present a softer T than the men. This does not appear to be the case. For this reason I wonder if 1. only the most extreme female T's make the claim and/or 2. women with T preferences behave with more assertiveness than their male counterparts, or 3. my observations are bust.

[Rei]

As they're introverted and shy they don't have many experiences with girls. In this case love matters mean the physical thing. :P

Ability/desire to teach? Well, actually I meant that it's fun to introduce a clueless geek into love matters (see for definition above).^^ As the process of introduction is very pleasing and funny.
Romantic? I'm not very romantic. I'm only driven by my 'pursuit of pleasure'. Of course you can't teach being romantic, honestly, this is not what I want.
Animes? I love animes can't get enough of this stuff. ;D


No, it's hard to disappoint me as I always expect the worst. Hmm..do you really want to know about my love life? This would not be suitable for under 18s.


I don't enjoy being of service to others I just take what makes me feel good. Hidden meaning and possibilities? Well, I always tell what I want.



I was focusing more on the fact that you're trying to 'teach love matters' love doesn't seem to be something a T would like to be teaching. Just my opinion.
I guess if you meant 'love' in terms of physical 'love' then ooookaaay...
Just the way you were saying "teach clueless geeks about love matters" sounded awfully emotional and service oriented to me.

I'm never interested in anyone's love life, so no, I'm not interested in your love life. I'm rather sufficiently occupied with my own thank you. I just wonder why in the world you involve yourself in a love life if you're expecting the worse from it.

Oh well, it doesn't matter. Whatever you think you are works.

[orange]

@orange: soulmates? :D who knows...but I actually found mine.

lol ;D


I was focusing more on the fact that you're trying to 'teach love matters' love doesn't seem to be something a T would like to be teaching.

If a T knows more about that type of thing than the other person they may teach the other so that they can be ammused at how bad the other person is at it.

It's funny to watch people to keep on falling.

[imoutofhere]

Confidence is attractive, which is why E people can be attractive sometimes despite how incompatible they might be. But, introverts can be confident, too, just usually unusually shy at the same time (which is cute). A confident introvert is quite a bit hotter than a confident extravert.

Personally, I'd rather have a guy a lot more like myself minus the borderline (safe and mutual relationship), though that doesn't mean I can't find a charismatic extravert tempting (sometimes highly so). I'll not likely settle for an E, though, and might even prove to just want a fellow IN_J... As much as some Es and Ps might like me, I'm sorry, but no. It's all well that they can still be good for affection, but it's important they actually understand me when I speak rather than ignoring it, and it's important they're not just "tolerating" my higher intelligence. Being called "pretty" is all well, but I'd also like to be recognized for more important things such as that I'm not some dits, that I can be trusted, and that I'm not that common. Being recognized for the things that help stand me apart is much more enjoyable than just being reminded I'm not too hard to look at. Not to mention, if all he can comment on is looks, then he doesn't know me very well, and can't possibly be feeling anything greater than a crush or lust.



(Yeah, I'm often not accepted as the intellectual I am no matter how blatant it is, and it's usually clear that my gender is a large part in why. It is true that most women aren't too bright, because our ancestors evolved to be weary of being hurt by men and to use socialization to survive. But, many of us still are quite bright, guys shouldn't allow themselves to write off the entire gender just because they haven't had enough luck and patience to find the smarter of us. Often, even people who know I'm "smart!" can't bing themselves to actually listen and take me seriously. Why? Because I'm female, and a small and quiet female at that. But I agree, that girl's definitely not a T, probably not an INFJ either, as I know an INFJ, thanks. INFJ's are just like INTJ's but more concerned with being nice and helping people.)

EDIT: I may not be an expert, but... She's probably an E... S... T... P. Or, an ENTP. But, she's definitely not a J, and probably not an I. After a quick look to descriptions of the two, I'd figure she's an ENTP. She's definitely too much of what I call "dits" to be an I or a J, but she probably is a Thinker, just not as her primary function. She came in reading really energetic and reckless, and then what she said about her romantic preferences sound like one of them E girls that like I guys just because they can push them around. Not saying they're bad people, I have an alright friend the same way, but they're definitely not healthy romantic partners for IN_Js, though they do like them (not really for the right reasons, they just want a push over, which they'd easier get from other types). Also, another person she reminds me of had a habit of intentionally manipulating personality tests/quizzes to get results more like mine even though she's blatantly nothing like me (or the results she wanted).

2ND EDIT: The blog in her given website agrees with me. Too much energy, and too much enthusiasm... Sure, IN_Js can get energetic 'n' such, but not that much or that often, while the first entry I saw was packed full of it.

3RD EDIT: That she got an INTJ test result 10 minutes before typing that very E displaying blog entry, backs my guess that she lied on the test to get the result she wanted. To have that much excitement about her birthday still after focusing on an in-depth kind of test... And, that even an INTJ stuck in such an upbeat mood (such as maybe by borderline) would probably not be able to get an INTJ result while in such an off (compared to the usual for INTJs) mindset... She lied on the test.

[rwyatt365]

Interesting thread!

I probably should (and probably will) do some more looking into the different types, but I tend to agree with the OP's premise of being "pulled in" by the energy of the ES—type. I find myself somewhat drawn in as well. I think it's their boundless enthusiasm and kookiness that is such an anathema to our reserve and inward-looking nature – it's intriguing and dangerous at the same time.

As far as the general population denigrating the intelligence of women in general and INTJ females, in particular – it's quite unfortunate (to say the least). I don’t necessarily think that most women are not too bright (sorry Haminette), I just think that many women have learned to play the game and have internalized the societal expectations. Men who are unwilling to see and accept female intelligence do so only because they are intimidated by the prospect that a "girl" is smarter than they are (a construct of society). Frankly, they need to get their heads out of their asses and recognize that a smart lady but their side is the best thing that they could have.

Perhaps a discussion of "Why are men afraid of smart women" could be started?

[Yersinia]

I just wonder why in the world you involve yourself in a love life if you're expecting the worse from it.

No, actually it affects everything and every person I encounter in my life. I always expect the worse case to be pleasantly surprised if something resolves in a happy ending. ;) But as I made good experiences with love scepticism towards it isn't that apparent.
Another reason why I don't get disappointed is that I try to make the best out of every bad thing.

Concerning me being an INTJ or INFP or what ever the test's results show it and you have to live with it :P. In the end, not all INTJs show the same traits of character so some of you shouldn't generalize the whole matter. After all, I don't care what you think what
or who I'm as I know better.

@Haminette: It's not a matter of being female when not being taken seriously. And more importantly,there are plenty of thick men not only women. So intelligence is definitely not a question of sex. :thinking:
Moreover, I've never heard such a theory that "most women aren't too bright,because our ancestors evolved weary of being hurt by men and to use socialisation to survive". It's true women have been suppressed by men but there were plenty of brave women to show that it's quite the contrary. Therefore, this reason seems more than far-fetched.
If you stop thinking like this and be more confident concerning your sex people might take you more seriously.

EDIT1:This is just ridiculous! Why should I lie while doing the test. :-? My boy-friend asked me to do the test out of curiosity. I even didn't know the outcome. Honestly, I've never heard of these categories. I don't see any sense in manipulating this test. For who should I've done it. Only to fit into a forum which I discovered later on? I'm energetic but I'm also reserved. I don't socialize much and prefer a calm environment.

EDit2: I don't push boys around. How can you judge me like that. I've been together with my boy-friend for 4 years and I would never do such kind of thing.
EDIT 3: You're definitively not good in judging people.
fixed broken quote tags

[Henry]

You are probably on to something there. Maybe I deeply want someone to give me the security to be me? (That is, a secure "space" within which I can operate autonomously.) Sounds like I'm looking for someone very "Daddy"-ish. heh.

Shallow confidence, extraversion, and a caustic wit are to women as big breats, a low wait to hip ratio, and symmetrical faces are to men; these traits are completely sexually irresistable.

I also like ES's, but only becuase they'll take care of all the details that I have no interest in, like cleaning my house and answering the phone. They tend to not be very intellectual, and as such it can be boring to talk to them, but there's a lot that works.

[Jezebel]

Off topic replies have been moved to This Thread

[Rei]

No, actually it affects everything and every person I encounter in my life. I always expect the worse case to be pleasantly surprised if something resolves in a happy ending. ;) But as I made good experiences with love scepticism towards it isn't that apparent.
Another reason why I don't get disappointed is that I try to make the best out of every bad thing.

Concerning me being an INTJ or INFP or what ever the test's results show it and you have to live with it :P. In the end, not all INTJs show the same traits of character so some of you shouldn't generalize the whole matter. After all, I don't care what you think what
or who I'm as I know better.
That's a good way of seeing things I guess. I personally just don't expect anything at all. Everyone starts with a clean slate; I just start 'judging' them as soon as I meet them lol.
But I guess everyone has different strength of preferences so it's different for all of us.

Orange:
Yeah I know the teaching part. I just didn't expect the topic of the teaching to be an expertise of an INTJ.

[OneBadMother]

A lot of ENXPs I know seem to have the same mantras I would expect from an ESXJ at times ("Connections", "just because", "this is the way things are in society, so deal with it"). Have you guys noticed this, and if so, why do you think that is? Do you think it might simply be an E thing in general, to grab ideal expectations of things from the dominant societal structure?

[Rohsiph]

I can appreciate an appeal toward the confident, outwardly-focused sensor using a physiological/passion-focused explanation, but am, frankly, horrified to consider a strong intuitive actively seeking such a person for a companionate relationship.

Substance, in a relational context, kind of requires there being some kind of depth beneath the surface--right?

[MichaelH]

I can appreciate an appeal toward the confident, outwardly-focused sensor using a physiological/passion-focused explanation, but am, frankly, horrified to consider a strong intuitive actively seeking such a person for a companionate relationship.

Substance, in a relational context, kind of requires there being some kind of depth beneath the surface--right?

Surprisingly, I have a lot in common with my own personal ESFP. He has occasional deep intuitive insight. Despite the type's write-up, he hates socializing with lots of people, and would rather be with just one - me. That fits well with my own isolationist tendencies.

"Opposites attract" is also true. We respect each other for our differing outlooks on life.

I agree, marrying a typical ESFP would be a nightmare for many INTJs. I couldn't tolerate more than one. But one can work.

[Garth]

I am happily married, but I've noticed something disturbing. The guys I'm attracted to tend to be ES-- types: outgoing without a lot of internal dialogue. Some of the appeal is the self-confidence Es project, and the clarity the S provides. (It's a shallow clarity, to be sure, but...) A switch somewhere in my brain flips and says, "This is a guy you want to sleep with."

My rational mind knows better, but I get this weird pull from animal magnetism. Do others have the same experience?

Umm…. My experience with S’s is that they really aren’t more self-confident than an INTJ, at least not this one.

When things go the least bit out of plan or get a bit chaotic, the S’s semblance of self-confidence tends to crumble for pretty much all of the S types except ESTPs and maybe ISTPs.

The kings of self-confidence, the ones with egos that tend to fill the room, are ENTJs.

With only one exception, ENTJs have an amazing ability to piss me off.

Your attraction to other guys may be because INTJs are easily bored. *If you had one of those ES types, after the conquest, you would probably get bored of them too and move on to something else.

I know I do that sort of thing.

When I was younger, I actually thought that ESFP women were my ideal type. *Then I started dating them…….. *The facts from those incidents changed my previous theories about ESFPs being my ideal type.

[Henry]

Increased assertiveness is the means irl by which women gain credibility. *

Actually this is bullshit.

If you had qualified it with a less general statement, "in business, increased assertiveness is the means by irl by which women gain credibility" or "among the uneducated, increased assertiveness is the means irl by which women gain credilibty", I might have agreed. But above statement as it is written is not accurate.

Camus once said that the need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind. *That's absolutely correct, regardless of gender. *Whether assertiveness adds or detracts to credibility depends on the merit of the point being asserted and the context of the conversation. *

Sex appeal is another matter. *Both genders find assertiveness attractive on very primal levels. *You may be confusing your perception of others' credibility assessment of you with sexual interest. *

[xtremegeek]

Increased assertiveness is the means irl by which women gain credibility. *

Actually this is bullshit.

If you had qualified it with a less general statement, "in business, increased assertiveness is the means by irl by which women gain credibility" or "among the uneducated, increased assertiveness is the means irl by which women gain credilibty", I might have agreed. *But above statement as it is written is not accurate.

Camus once said that the need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind. *That's absolutely correct, regardless of gender. *Whether assertiveness adds or detracts to credibility depends on the merit of the point being asserted and the context of the conversation. *

Sex appeal is another matter. *Both genders find assertiveness attractive on very primal levels. *You may be confusing your perception of others' credibility assessment of you with sexual interest. *


Camus? As in Albert Camus, the man who immigrated to France from Nigeria? The man who is credited with saying, "Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Walk beside me and be my friend." That Camus?

[Solaris]

Confidence is attractive, which is why E people can be attractive sometimes despite how incompatible they might be. But, introverts can be confident, too, just usually unusually shy at the same time (which is cute). A confident introvert is quite a bit hotter than a confident extravert.

Personally, I'd rather have a guy a lot more like myself minus the borderline (safe and mutual relationship), though that doesn't mean I can't find a charismatic extravert tempting (sometimes highly so). I'll not likely settle for an E, though, and might even prove to just want a fellow IN_J... As much as some Es and Ps might like me, I'm sorry, but no. It's all well that they can still be good for affection, but it's important they actually understand me when I speak rather than ignoring it, and it's important they're not just "tolerating" my higher intelligence. Being called "pretty" is all well, but I'd also like to be recognized for more important things such as that I'm not some dits, that I can be trusted, and that I'm not that common. Being recognized for the things that help stand me apart is much more enjoyable than just being reminded I'm not too hard to look at. Not to mention, if all he can comment on is looks, then he doesn't know me very well, and can't possibly be feeling anything greater than a crush or lust.



(Yeah, I'm often not accepted as the intellectual I am no matter how blatant it is, and it's usually clear that my gender is a large part in why. It is true that most women aren't too bright, because our ancestors evolved to be weary of being hurt by men and to use socialization to survive. But, many of us still are quite bright, guys shouldn't allow themselves to write off the entire gender just because they haven't had enough luck and patience to find the smarter of us. Often, even people who know I'm "smart!" can't bing themselves to actually listen and take me seriously. Why? Because I'm female, and a small and quiet female at that. But I agree, that girl's definitely not a T, probably not an INFJ either, as I know an INFJ, thanks. INFJ's are just like INTJ's but more concerned with being nice and helping people.)

EDIT: I may not be an expert, but... She's probably an E... S... T... P. Or, an ENTP. But, she's definitely not a J, and probably not an I. After a quick look to descriptions of the two, I'd figure she's an ENTP. She's definitely too much of what I call "dits" to be an I or a J, but she probably is a Thinker, just not as her primary function. She came in reading really energetic and reckless, and then what she said about her romantic preferences sound like one of them E girls that like I guys just because they can push them around. Not saying they're bad people, I have an alright friend the same way, but they're definitely not healthy romantic partners for IN_Js, though they do like them (not really for the right reasons, they just want a push over, which they'd easier get from other types). Also, another person she reminds me of had a habit of intentionally manipulating personality tests/quizzes to get results more like mine even though she's blatantly nothing like me (or the results she wanted).

2ND EDIT: The blog in her given website agrees with me. Too much energy, and too much enthusiasm... Sure, IN_Js can get energetic 'n' such, but not that much or that often, while the first entry I saw was packed full of it.

3RD EDIT: That she got an INTJ test result 10 minutes before typing that very E displaying blog entry, backs my guess that she lied on the test to get the result she wanted. To have that much excitement about her birthday still after focusing on an in-depth kind of test... And, that even an INTJ stuck in such an upbeat mood (such as maybe by borderline) would probably not be able to get an INTJ result while in such an off (compared to the usual for INTJs) mindset... She lied on the test.

I disagree with your assertion that all E women want is a pushover. I cannot f'ing stand pushovers. I speak completely from experience, and will never EVER date any sort of pushover again. I like introverts and extroverts. I like introverts more, because they balance my E and are better to converse with. I like T males because I don't want a man who is more in touch with his feelings than I am, that's just not something I cannot handle. I can't communicate and express emotions very well, I know this, and I won't succeed in a relationship with a man (sorry, but I am upholding a stereotype to an extent here) who would try to communicate via his emotions. *shudder* No. Just...no.

[GOD]

*
I disagree with your assertion that all E women want is a pushover. I cannot f'ing stand pushovers. I speak completely from experience, and will never EVER date any sort of pushover again. I like introverts and extroverts. I like introverts more, because they balance my E and are better to converse with. I like T males because I don't want a man who is more in touch with his feelings than I am, that's just not something I can handle. I can't communicate and express emotions very well, I know this, and I won't succeed in a relationship with a man (sorry, but I am upholding a stereotype to an extent here) who would try to communicate via his emotions. *shudder* No. Just...no.


I'd concur, most attractive and outgoing women absolutely like a non pushover. Why? They are always getting hit on in the "extraverted outgoing scenes". Some times I wonder whether is more a "why doesn't this guy try to jump me" which gets them thinking and so reinforces the attraction.

Also, its plainly true that women like guys to lead, they don't want some "whimp". In some situations women like to be the fairer sex and in others expect to take the lead. Although, very F women dating really T guys always leaves plenty of room to completely misunderstand each other.

[MichaelH]

A lot of ENXPs I know seem to have the same mantras I would expect from an ESXJ at times ("Connections", "just because", "this is the way things are in society, so deal with it"). Have you guys noticed this, and if so, why do you think that is? Do you think it might simply be an E thing in general, to grab ideal expectations of things from the dominant societal structure?

I've noticed it sometimes in my ESFP. I think it's because he/they don't have the view of possibilities that IN types have. The world is what it is, and that's what they work with. End of story.

[iwin]

I just wonder how you know who are the people around you? Do you guys come up and ask: "What personality are you?", or just guess? But for guessing you have to read tons of information. Is it worth it?

[Henry]

Camus? *As in Albert Camus, the man who immigrated to France from Nigeria? *The man who is credited with saying, "Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. *Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. *Walk beside me and be my friend." *That Camus?


Yes, that Camus. *The point was asserted strongly because the assumption is asinine when dealing with all but the dumbest in society, and causes a lot of problems, most notably problems relating to those who are constantly trying to walk in front of everyone else.

I just wonder how you know who are the people around you? Do you guys come up and ask: "What personality are you?", or just guess? But for guessing you have to read tons of information. Is it worth it?

You don't guess, you observe. Happier when alone or when with others? Details or big picture? Thoughts or feelings govern action? Lazy or hardworking, organized or disorganized, punctual or unpunctual?

[iwin]

And what is INTJ?

[Henry]

And what is INTJ?

Introverted, intuitive, thinking, judging

That is, enrgized by time alone, big picture, thinking, and punctual organized and hardworking.

[iwin]

since when judging is punctual and harworking?

sorry for being this annoying^^