Is Emotion Strength?

[sriv]

People are always saying to me that emotion is healthy, but does it imply strength? Is emotional sensitivity a strong trait? Sensitivity can easily be proven as a generally weak trait. Does the same apply with insensitivity? What do you think?

My personal opinion is that emotions should be dealt with at the right time and that they are a crutch. Never to be released in the middle of a competition where concentration can be lost or vented at people because then you will avoid needless conflict.

[Asylum]

Well, I would agree, I think emotions should be dealt with at convenient times and in the right setting. That means though, at some point, they must be dealt with and knowing how to deal with them is problematic (for me anyway)...

I suppose general apathy is just a matter of how you handle a situation, even if it is emotional. If other people want you to express emotion I suppose they must get some kind of gratification out of it: Proof of humanity, familiarity and a way to relate to you. If you're generally controlled I don't think it's healthy to force yourself to be different than you are.

I don't think sensitivity necessarily makes someone weak or strong. Someone who is generally emotional can be both difficult and easy to deal with... Well, mostly difficult, which, in some ways, gives them an upper hand.

[OneBadMother]

Emotion in and of itself is not strength. Control over and understanding of emotions is arguably a strength.

[malefide]

Emotions can be used to one's advantage but not without understanding and relative control.

[Asylum]

For one's self controlling emotions can be a strength, but what about when you're faced with someone who doesn't control their emotions and is irrational?

Knowing how to gauge other people's emotions and how to manipulate their responses seems like a talent in and of itself. (I'm thinking this is what malefide is saying?)

[Noehelia]

Emotion is emotion, how you deal with this is another thing.

[curiousjane]

Emotion is human. It is a gift, and a curse. It must be reigned in by the will when wild and unlocked by the heart when timid.

Emotion is a communication tool. It speaks what we cannot, and enhances what we can.

Emotion is innate. While emotion in and of itself may not be strength, knowing when and where it is appropriate to express is.

[ElstonGunn]

Is emotion good or bad? Hmm, I wonder if the Ts and Fs will split right along sterotypical lines... ;)

[Asylum]

Is emotion good or bad? Hmm, I wonder if the Ts and Fs will split right along sterotypical lines... ;)

Don't you think it already has?

[curiousjane]

Don't you think it already has?

:laugh:

Maybe.

But I'm not emo enough. Talk to an "F" who is and see for sure.

;)

[umop_3pisdn]

Being emotionally undeveloped would be a bad thing. The word "undeveloped" really says it all. I don't think emotion itself is strength, though. I think that kind of relies on another factor. Though I don't think many feelers are as delicate as they'd like us to believe, and they'd probably have a higher tolerance for some things than us rationals. Feeling serves well in making value judgments. In these situations emotions work a lot better than just logic or reasoning, since one's values and feelings don't always make the most logical sense. Though I would assume this is already commonly understood by many here.

Having coherent emotions, and knowing how to express them in a constructive way, tends to allow one to take advantage of some situations more fully. If you rely on cool hard logic all the time, a person can miss a lot of other important things. Like the nuances of feeling, which tends to play a relatively significant role in one's inner world. Rather than just dissecting a situation with logic, having a more balanced approach towards feeling can liberate a person from some more dogmatic and disenchanting modes of thinking, IME.

Ultimately a balance would be ideal, though. Use logic for logical problems, and feeling for more value related problems. Logic is good for structuring one's self or world view, and manipulating external factors. Emotion is good for discovering one's core drives, aspirations, and "identity", and also for communicating with others.

[thod]

To be driven by emotion is to have no control. You are as an animal reacting to the world on instinct. We rationals have learned to suppress them rather than eliminate them. The negative side of this is that when something does bring them to the fore there can be catastrophic failure. Our minds are not used to dealing with such things and can lead the individual to break down like a small child. Someone that revels in their emotional side would have long experience of handling them and suffer no such breakdown.

[Minerva]

People are always saying to me that emotion is healthy, but does it imply strength? Is emotional sensitivity a strong trait? Sensitivity can easily be proven as a generally weak trait. Does the same apply with insensitivity? What do you think?

My personal opinion is that emotions should be dealt with at the right time and that they are a crutch. Never to be released in the middle of a competition where concentration can be lost or vented at people because then you will avoid needless conflict.

It depends. Yes, sensitivity can be a source of weakness, but it can also be regarded as a strenght. For example, many people come to me, usually persons with a F preference and say, "You look like a very nice person... Can I tell you something?" This has happened to me so many times that I have lost count. However, some of my INTJ friends (friend in the REAL sense of the word) only come to me with their emotional problems when he/she has completely lost control. I have been told that I am like a quick fix for them. I think it is simply because I have had no choice but to deal with my emotions for most of my life. In the past there were istances when my feelings really got in the way. I got scared easily, my concentration at school got messed up, I was not assertive enough...and the list goes on. Then I realized that I cannot live like this. My potential is being sapped. So I have and continue to stive for increasingly improved ways of controlling my emotions.

And I agree with you. Emotion HAS to be dealt with at a more appropriate time. I have learnt, the hard way, that no matter how you feel, all you need to do is do what you have to do. Leave the feeling when you have time for it.

Insensitivity? You are a Thinking creature, not a Feeling creature, like myself. So I feel more... making me more sensitive to people's feelings. It is inherent in you, that you are out of touch with yours and others feelings. That does not strickly make you insensitve. It makes you insensitive in the eyes of Feelers. But my guess is that if one of your Feeling friends come to you, it is because they really want to be listened to. INTJs can be exceptional listeners. They may also seek some advice like, "What should I do now?" He or she may just be craving some hard logic, because once again his or her feelings have gotten the best of him or her.

What do you think? Do you find yourself insensitive? When someone confides in you... do you register symapthy or empathy?

[sriv]

It depends. Yes, sensitivity can be a source of weakness, but it can also be regarded as a strenght. For example, many people come to me, usually persons with a F preference and say, "You look like a very nice person... Can I tell you something?" This has happened to me so many times that I have lost count. However, some of my INTJ friends (friend in the REAL sense of the word) only come to me with their emotional problems when he/she has completely lost control. I have been told that I am like a quick fix for them. I think it is simply because I have had no choice but to deal with my emotions for most of my life. In the past there were istances when my feelings really got in the way. I got scared easily, my concentration at school got messed up, I was not assertive enough...and the list goes on. Then I realized that I cannot live like this. My potential is being sapped. So I have and continue to stive for increasingly improved ways of controlling my emotions.

And I agree with you. Emotion HAS to be dealt with at a more appropriate time. I have learnt, the hard way, that no matter how you feel, all you need to do is do what you have to do. Leave the feeling when you have time for it.

Insensitivity? You are a Thinking creature, not a Feeling creature, like myself. So I feel more... making me more sensitive to people's feelings. It is inherent in you, that you are out of touch with yours and others feelings. That does not strickly make you insensitve. It makes you insensitive in the eyes of Feelers. But my guess is that if one of your Feeling friends come to you, it is because they really want to be listened to. INTJs can be exceptional listeners. They may also seek some advice like, "What should I do now?" He or she may just be craving some hard logic, because once again his or her feelings have gotten the best of him or her.

What do you think? Do you find yourself insensitive? When someone confides in you... do you register symapthy or empathy?

Yes, I find myself to be completely insensitive. I view virtually everything in cold, hard logic. I register empathy and put myself in their shoes and would see what I would do in a similar situation. I often find sympathy to be misleading and almost demanded from feelers which irks me. I want to boost their self-esteem and make them feel better but I do not want them to rely solely on me to do it for them. Then there are the people coming to confide in me that just go begging for pity from everyone and I get really annoyed at them.

That is true that I am out of touch with my own feelings. Recently, my strong F friend pointed out that I am subtly guilty for coming from a rich house. I denied it at first, but them I realized that I did feel guilty and that the feeling was always there but never recognized or facilitated.

Now next question. For an INTJ, does adopting emotions feel like conforming or enlightening? So far for me, it has been a little bit of both.

[acyckowski]

Now next question. For an INTJ, does adopting emotions feel like conforming or enlightening? So far for me, it has been a little bit of both.

I agree, a little bit of both. As with the decision to develop "social skills," the decision to develop "emotions" required some study of the logic chain. If X happens, I am expected to feel Y emotion, and it would be appropriate to display Z expression. In that respect, it's been enlightening, but enlightenment was a second-order effect of conforming.

[sriv]

I love INTJdom. Stereotypically, any other type would just naturally accept the emotion that flows through them.

I think emotion is the kind of thing that a person has to conform to or else they get nowhere in life, like clothes and hygiene. If you walk into an interview with a horrible odor garbed like a hobo, then you have a much greater chance of being denied. Emotion goes into the category of forced conformity. Normally, I do not have a problem conforming to fashion and hygiene, because it is not too much of an inconvenience, but emotion will be hard for me.

[Solaris]

I agree, a little bit of both. As with the decision to develop "social skills," the decision to develop "emotions" required some study of the logic chain. If X happens, I am expected to feel Y emotion, and it would be appropriate to display Z expression. In that respect, it's been enlightening, but enlightenment was a second-order effect of conforming.

Based on my life experiences/education, I've pretty well mastered this technique -- when I care to apply it. It's always an act (even for an E, as an NT, I'd rather discuss interesting subjects at length), but I can do it. The problem is that certain situations, let's call them "Q", occur. These situations fall well outside the norm, and I can't fake it. Since I don't care to be disingenuine in this graver situations (deaths, breakups, job losses, other serious, sad events), I can't do it. Instead, I often ignore the situation and discuss things around it.

On topic, emotion is strength -- as wild and unfocused as a tornado. Containing it requires even greater strength.

[Richard0612]

On topic, emotion is strength -- as wild and unfocused as a tornado. Containing it requires even greater strength.

Makes sense to me [although I would add '...using it effectively requires greater strength still']. You need at least some emotion to get on in the world, but once you let it rule your life you are heading for chaos. I naturally do not respond emotionally even in emotionally-charged situations. Like Solaris I can fake it in most instances but not always.

[Alida]

emotion is a weakness, for an INTJ, unless that emotion makes it easier to classify and explain and predict other people's motivations.

Emotion is beautiful and tempting but it makes you incredibly vulnerable.

(and no, cheesy as the above sounds, I'm not talking about love. I really mean, anger, happiness, sadness, excitement, joy, etc.)

[Richard0612]

emotion is a weakness, for an INTJ, unless that emotion makes it easier to classify and explain and predict other people's motivations.


Quoted for truth! I often use some form of emotion to predict people's responses and adapt my 'strategies' accordingly, but otherwise it is a weakness for INTJs.

[nzashadow]

Anyone ever look into the strength of the "shadow"

Jung's "shadow" is the dark side of the psyche which holds the evil and the gold of the personality. The instinctual part of us for survival. Supposedly when we let the shadow work at a conscious level with the ego, we reach our creative genius, which would partly explain the speculated correlation of genius and madness.

The shadow is supposed to be the parts of our personality that we repress in order to become civilized by societies standards, therefore with nearly any NT, emotion would likely be apart of this shadow, since it's something NT's find uncomfortable, therefore normally it would be repressed in some way because we would normally find it illogical.

Therefore, it may not be considered "strength" per say... but cultivation of our emotions and gaining control and understanding of them would allow us to reach our creative potential.

[suzyk]

I think that emotion brings you down. You can get really depressed about the world and all it's problems, which may lead you to become suicidal and it could cause you to hurt yourself. Or you could give money to every beggar you see, not even caring if they just spend it on booze. Emotions are important to a level, but if you let your emotions out for everything, it gets tiring to try to control them, so I would prefer to be insensitive then overly sensitive.

[HousesOfApollo]

Emotion is not a strength for me, as the experience of it can make me ill. Whenever I'm in an emotional situation, it is obvious that I am out of my element. This isn't to say that I don't experience emotions--I do so quite often; however, I don't really know what to do with them.

If I'm angry, I don't know what to do.

If I'm sad, that changes nothing.

If I feel empathy, the first question I ask is, "is this going to be used against me?"

I avoid emotional encounters, if at all possible. This probably makes me appear far more callous than I actually am.

Oftentimes I won't know if someone likes me or not. I cannot sense emotion from others. There is a brick wall between my feelings and the rest of the world; there is no communication. For this reason, therapy has never worked for me.

To answer the question, though, I'd say it depends on who you are. There are thinkers and there are feelers, and their respective strengths and weaknesses differ.

But if we're talking about humanity in general, then I'd say that emotion should tell us what we want, and that cool-headed rationality should govern our actions; but there ought not be anymore petty drama. The Rationals are, after all, a minority, so we could probably due with a lot less emotionality and more rationality; there would still be plenty of feelings to go around.

[nzashadow]

The rationals I know, including myself, are as bad as any feeler after the emotional repression finally takes it's toll.

It's merely about maturely handling whatever emotion.

When I feel passionate about something, that's where I truly stand out above everyone else with my abilities, knowledge, and potential.

I also find when I'm repressing my negative emotions, I cannot be in the least bit productive.

Unfortunately I'm normally in the latter states of the two.

And an emotional encounter will make me sick, and crippled for a ridiculous amount of time, and the fact that it goes against my logic that I'm like that even makes it worse.

Petty drama is due to immaturely projecting your repressed emotions. Feelers are just more likely going to do this with every emotion they have, but I've seen Rationals do much worse simply because they repress it longer, and it tips over before they figure out a mature way of handling it.

[sriv]

Anyone ever look into the strength of the "shadow"

Jung's "shadow" is the dark side of the psyche which holds the evil and the gold of the personality. The instinctual part of us for survival. Supposedly when we let the shadow work at a conscious level with the ego, we reach our creative genius, which would partly explain the speculated correlation of genius and madness.

The shadow is supposed to be the parts of our personality that we repress in order to become civilized by societies standards, therefore with nearly any NT, emotion would likely be apart of this shadow, since it's something NT's find uncomfortable, therefore normally it would be repressed in some way because we would normally find it illogical.

Therefore, it may not be considered "strength" per say... but cultivation of our emotions and gaining control and understanding of them would allow us to reach our creative potential.

So you think that emotions are less useful for logical purposes and more for creative purposes.

I think that emotion brings you down. You can get really depressed about the world and all it's problems, which may lead you to become suicidal and it could cause you to hurt yourself. Or you could give money to every beggar you see, not even caring if they just spend it on booze. Emotions are important to a level, but if you let your emotions out for everything, it gets tiring to try to control them, so I would prefer to be insensitive then overly sensitive.

Same.

Emotion is not a strength for me, as the experience of it can make me ill. Whenever I'm in an emotional situation, it is obvious that I am out of my element. This isn't to say that I don't experience emotions--I do so quite often; however, I don't really know what to do with them.

If I'm angry, I don't know what to do.

If I'm sad, that changes nothing.

If I feel empathy, the first question I ask is, "is this going to be used against me?"

I avoid emotional encounters, if at all possible. This probably makes me appear far more callous than I actually am.

Oftentimes I won't know if someone likes me or not. I cannot sense emotion from others. There is a brick wall between my feelings and the rest of the world; there is no communication. For this reason, therapy has never worked for me.

To answer the question, though, I'd say it depends on who you are. There are thinkers and there are feelers, and their respective strengths and weaknesses differ.

But if we're talking about humanity in general, then I'd say that emotion should tell us what we want, and that cool-headed rationality should govern our actions; but there ought not be anymore petty drama. The Rationals are, after all, a minority, so we could probably due with a lot less emotionality and more rationality; there would still be plenty of feelings to go around.

Why can't we let rationality tell us what we want? I want to learn and preserve the human race. Both are rational, both make a lot of sense.

The rationals I know, including myself, are as bad as any feeler after the emotional repression finally takes it's toll.

It's merely about maturely handling whatever emotion.

When I feel passionate about something, that's where I truly stand out above everyone else with my abilities, knowledge, and potential.

I also find when I'm repressing my negative emotions, I cannot be in the least bit productive.

Unfortunately I'm normally in the latter states of the two.

And an emotional encounter will make me sick, and crippled for a ridiculous amount of time, and the fact that it goes against my logic that I'm like that even makes it worse.

Petty drama is due to immaturely projecting your repressed emotions. Feelers are just more likely going to do this with every emotion they have, but I've seen Rationals do much worse simply because they repress it longer, and it tips over before they figure out a mature way of handling it.

Do you think that maturely releasing emotions can allow oneself to regularly repress emotion and remain insensitive? I go out for a few hours most weekend to sketch nature. It is very refreshing.

[HousesOfApollo]

The rationals I know, including myself, are as bad as any feeler after the emotional repression finally takes it's toll.

It's merely about maturely handling whatever emotion.

When I feel passionate about something, that's where I truly stand out above everyone else with my abilities, knowledge, and potential.

I also find when I'm repressing my negative emotions, I cannot be in the least bit productive.

Unfortunately I'm normally in the latter states of the two.

And an emotional encounter will make me sick, and crippled for a ridiculous amount of time, and the fact that it goes against my logic that I'm like that even makes it worse.

Petty drama is due to immaturely projecting your repressed emotions. Feelers are just more likely going to do this with every emotion they have, but I've seen Rationals do much worse simply because they repress it longer, and it tips over before they figure out a mature way of handling it.

What works the best for me to to apply reason to any emotional problem I may have; reify it, and bring it up into my realm. Once it's up there, I can express it as a problem that needs to be solved. In this way I don't exactly repress them, nor do I let them take control; I simply address them as best I can.



Why can't we let rationality tell us what we want? I want to learn and preserve the human race. Both are rational, both make a lot of sense.


One of the things I learned from being a critical thinker is that if you're very objective you're going to end up changing your mind a lot as new information comes in. For example, a few years ago I had come to conclusion that human existence was futile and senseless, and not worth living--then, not even my own life made any rational sense to me. What kept me going was the fact that I wanted to live--that life still had rewards. If my desires in life were plotted out by how often I changed my mind, it would make even less sense than it does now.

What I'm basically trying to say here is that we need some stabilizing factor in our lives, especially if our minds are going all over the place--a moral center if you will. But that's just me. Perhaps one day I'll even change my mind about this.

[EsoteriEccentri]

Emotion is both a strength and a weakness.
But either way it's far too powerful. ;_;

[nzashadow]

Do you think that maturely releasing emotions can allow oneself to regularly repress emotion and remain insensitive? I go out for a few hours most weekend to sketch nature. It is very refreshing.

If you consider Jung's ego and the shadow, the ego is the filter of our thoughts and perception that we acknowledge and let into our conscious behavior, and the shadow the instinctual self for our needs, which includes namely our needs of our psyche.

Jung's law of entropy then suggests that each function of our psyche tries to become of equal value to the psyche, but our ego filters this towards what our preferences are. Therefore in a NT or ST temperament, feelings tend to become ignored by our ego and placed into our shadow. If what our shadow is telling us is ignored by our ego, then it becomes further repressed, and eventually the shadow will break through the ego's filter and express itself in a desperate attempt to restore balance. This normally leads to immature expression of the emotions we tend to repress, small example would be an NT ridiculing an SF, larger scale would be what you see tear relationships into disasters.

Jung suggests that when the shadow is allowed to express itself consciously (therefore our ego is not filtering out the callings of our shadow), we reach our creative potential. I hear often that a creative outlet is key to retaining a healthy mind, or at least healthy lifestyle, which would imply a healthy mind I suppose.

Unfortunately, any given culture requires that you act a certain way, at least to avoid trouble, therefore regularly expressing in such a way leads to inconveniences, therefore to function in a given society you have to constantly repress certain personality differences that you may have from what is generally accepted in society, or accepted by your own ego, therefore, doing activities like sketching nature is a great example by my opinion of a mature expression of emotion, whereas an example of immature expression would be something like punching holes in the walls or watching porn.

Repression is unavoidable unless you don't mind becoming viewed as some psychopath or just generally crazy, unless by chance you're ego and your psyche needs just happen to fit quite well with what society wants... which I would suppose this is not the case for most rationals.



"So you think that emotions are less useful for logical purposes and more for creative purposes."

Concerning this, yeah. Emotions are considered "irrational" therefore cannot really be considered "logical". Normally hard logic would imply that emotions have absolutely no say in the problem needing to be solved. The thing I'm trying to get at, to keep a healthy mind you can't feed one cognitive function and starve another. This goes against the nature of the how the psyche develops, at least if you consider that the law of entropy has truth to it. So far by my experience it seems that it does, but this may not be the case for others.

"Emotion is both a strength and a weakness.
But either way it's far too powerful."

This is exactly why I am saying it should not be repressed, if viewed as a strength by a rational mind and allowed to support them with said rational's goals, is where the rational mind reaches it's potential.

If repressed, the emotions become negative in the sense that they get pushed into the unconscious, which will inevitably and eventually control said individual's thought process and motivations from a "behind the scenes" kind of concept in our own psyche.

Therefore, it is a strength and a weakness, sorta like what anything would be if it has an affect on something else to such a degree.

Intelligence is also something that can be a strength and weakness in your character, but it is a power that has tremendous affects, it merely depends on how you use it... use it to be productive or use it to be lazy(just for an example)? I have a tendency for the latter, so I suppose it'd be my the defining basis of most weaknesses that I may have in life right now, when I could have used it to do much more, I just used it to figure out how to get out of my school work with the least amount of effort so I can go do other things.

Emotions are the same concept. A lot of people driven by emotion either tend to make decisions to avoid negative emotions or to experience positive emotions. Attempting to avoid negative emotions will inevitably lead to self destructive behavior, while going for the positive emotions can lead to a hedonistic lifestyle. Easily identifiable as a weakness. But emotions have the power to motivate us to reach for things that may seem out of reach when we apply our logic to measure how realistic that goal might be. But our logic will always not be aware of certain variables that may simply not be within our view just yet. Therefore emotions may be the path towards great achievements, when used by a rational mind, but I guess this view could be easily criticized.

lol, this post is too long <.< this was a complete rambling of thoughts, but whatever :P

[Solaris]

lol, this post is too long <.< this was a complete rambling of thoughts, but whatever :P


From an INTP?! I'm shocked... ;)

On a more serious side, I found your post interesting. Your mind rambles in a way mine can follow apparently. I don't really have anything to add, I just wanted share that I found your ramble interesting. (sorry sorry sorry everyone, I realize, I'm encouraging the INTP to ramble and expound further)

On topic: Does anyone else see a difference between these two phrases --

"Is Emotion Strength"
"Does Emotion Have Strength"

This popped into my head, and it was interesting to my "just woke up" precaffeinated brain. The first implies strength is at the center, immovable in its power. The second, to me, implies that emotion is more like a steamroller (but maybe with no driver at the wheel).

[Minerva]

From an SF's view: I agree with nzashadow's post. Speaking from my life experiences and from what I have perceived about the world of people, he couldn't be more "on target".

[sriv]

WOW nzashadow. All I can say is that made sense.

[gabe]

From an INTP?! I'm shocked... ;)

On a more serious side, I found your post interesting. Your mind rambles in a way mine can follow apparently. I don't really have anything to add, I just wanted share that I found your ramble interesting. (sorry sorry sorry everyone, I realize, I'm encouraging the INTP to ramble and expound further)

On topic: Does anyone else see a difference between these two phrases --

"Is Emotion Strength"
"Does Emotion Have Strength"

This popped into my head, and it was interesting to my "just woke up" precaffeinated brain. The first implies strength is at the center, immovable in its power. The second, to me, implies that emotion is more like a steamroller (but maybe with no driver at the wheel).

Do you have a steamroller fetish?

Emotion can be a lot of different things, because emotion is NOT feeling. It might just be part of expressing feeling. You have to have the right feeling (as in, smiling and saying 'what a jerk' doesn't quite make sense) but feeling types actually don't really get caught up in the emotion of feeling. (not nearly as caught up in it as thinking types when they try to use feelng ) However, feeling is culturally inferior. And according to Marie Louis Von Franz, the inferior function is one of the most heavily emotional functions in an individual (yes, even if it is inferior thinking)

[Solaris]

Do you have a steamroller fetish?

Emotion can be a lot of different things, because emotion is NOT feeling. It might just be part of expressing feeling. You have to have the right feeling (as in, smiling and saying 'what a jerk' doesn't quite make sense) but feeling types actually don't really get caught up in the emotion of feeling. (not nearly as caught up in it as thinking types when they try to use feelng ) However, feeling is culturally inferior. And according to Marie Louis Von Franz, the inferior function is one of the most heavily emotional functions in an individual (yes, even if it is inferior thinking)

Do you seriously have nothing better to do than follow me around this forum?

Yes, clearly I have a steamroller fetish. I have a whole warehouse full of them. In fact, I host weddings there for others with steamroller fetishes like mine.

Smiling and saying what a jerk actually makes perfect sense -- it's called sarcasm.

I do know plenty of feeling types, and they get caught up in feeling and emotion. They seem more comfortable and faster moving in this state than NT types, but isn't that a hallmark of what makes an SF or NF?

I am not implying that NTs do not feel or do not have emotion, we just view and use it in a vastly different manner.

[Alpha Prime]

But emotions have the power to motivate us to reach for things that may seem out of reach when we apply our logic to measure how realistic that goal might be. But our logic will always not be aware of certain variables that may simply not be within our view just yet. Therefore emotions may be the path towards great achievements, when used by a rational mind, but I guess this view could be easily criticized.

So much has been said in this thread, and post, which I agree with, in particular this quote.

In addition, emotions, when accompanied by a specific goal, trigger powers in the subconscious mind, which are as powerful, as interesting.

Given the choice of having emotions and no emotions, I would take emotions, any day. They have so many logical reasons for existing, which the conscious mind cannot always grasp, or tame.

[Haphazard]

F types are more likely to get 'caught up' in emotion because, even though 'feeling' in Jungian psychology is very different than 'emotion', 'feeling' requires a personal view of problem solving while 'thinking' requires an impersonal view.

That said, dominant use of T probably leads to more unhealthy emotional repression...

Well, it's my opinion that emotion can be a warning or it can be a reward, but it's not the end to a means. That's probably a very NT way of looking at it, but that's always been my thought on it.

[sriv]

Do you think that emotions can contain strength untapped by humans as of now? It would make a lot of sense because they are always a source of mystery and ambiguity. We may not know the true power of emotion, whereas we do know the true power of logic, manifested in computers and savants. !!! Possibly some savants use emotion to its most powerful potential? In art, music, etc.

[True Rune]

I would imagine it has it's uses for some people to strengthen their bonds, or perhaps enhance communication, or it just gets let out and people live with it, but I wouldn't call it a strength or a weakness. I don't condemn emotional people for being emotional, just don't whine to me about not being emotional..

[Tonney P]

I think that emotions, like any other characteristic of personality, controlled and directed properly are a hugh benefit. Everything has a positive and a negative effect; beneficial when directed by an individual under his control and for a specific purpose, and quite the opposit when allowed to control the individual.:)

[fINTiP]

But emotions have the power to motivate us to reach for things that may seem out of reach when we apply our logic to measure how realistic that goal might be. But our logic will always not be aware of certain variables that may simply not be within our view just yet. Therefore emotions may be the path towards great achievements, when used by a rational mind, but I guess this view could be easily criticized.

Someone said it just a few posts ago- emotions as a means to and end, or emotions as a reward.

This is one quote above, but several on this forum, even on other threads, echo this POV on emotions: it can be a strength only/primarily as motivation towards an end that is logical to pursue.

This seems, to me, to be a very narrow view of emotions. Similar to Alpha, I find that emotions are mysterious, and will take emotions over no emotions any day. I find that purpose & meaning, and the essence of what it means to be human are found in these emotions...

...to look at them as some kind of means to an end seems so limited, I can barely comprehend it.

I wonder if I sound like an INFP right now?





fINTiP added to this post, 11 minutes and 10 seconds later...

People are always saying to me that emotion is healthy, but does it imply strength? Is emotional sensitivity a strong trait? Sensitivity can easily be proven as a generally weak trait. Does the same apply with insensitivity? What do you think?

What is strength? Your view of strength appears to be a cold, hard logician who bends to nothing that does not hold up to his brilliant, unbiased scrutiny.

I find that strength inferior to the strength of a wise, sensitive man; a man who has not only a strong mind, but also a strong heart.

The question it comes down to, a few turns down the road, is what are you living for? Are you here for the numbers or the people? My logic leads me to believe logic isn't as valuable as I would naturally want to believe.

That being said, I would never prefer to think with my heart before my head; only that I would not want a withered, insensitive heart to go with an intelligent mind. For what is the purpose in that? Man is no computer....

[Haphazard]

Well, with emotions, sometimes I love them, sometimes I hate them -- I just know that when I use my emotions as my main guide, I end up screwing up. Then again, I'm a teenager, and everything's fucked up internally because of hormones.

What's awful is when emotional split-reactions get the better of people. They need to be thought out and figured out, not just left to fester and be expressed and taken out on your neighbor. I've seen all types of people on this forum get defensive on sensitive topics. I can, too, and all it does is make you look immature.

@fiINTP:

No, you still sound like an INTP. Everyone's got feelin's. It's one of those facts of life things.

Honestly, overly emotional people scare me. Emotions are things that have to be understood for anybody to do anything. The point is, sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong in guiding what you want to do or what needs to get done. You've just got to reason it out.

Emotions are not our only connection with people. F types would like you to think that it is, but it's not. I like my friends and family for a lot of different reasons, but it's very difficult for me to form that 'emotional attachment' that others seem to form so easily.

I don't know... I find this whole conversation a little funny. I need to go and figure out why. Lol.





Haphazard added to this post, 29 minutes and 48 seconds later...

Well, let me put it this way. This tends to be the way that I look at emotions. If it's negative, it goes under the microscope, and decide one of these three things:

1) It is a legitimate complaint. Changes are in order. I do the changes and feel a lot better.
2) It is not a legitimate complaint. A change in attitude is in order. I tell myself to suck it up and end up feeling a lot better.
3) It is a legitimate complaint, but there's nothing I can do about it at the present time. Emotions end up festering, and if this goes on for long enough, I end up exploding in a spectacular fashion.

3 is generally unhealthy. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Joy and positive emotions are to be savored, but I don't usually actively seek them out. They can be very powerful, but usually I'm at about equilibrium.

The point is that life doesn't stop because you're feeling a certain way today. I have to find ways of dealing with emotions so I can get on with my life.

Emotions, I don't think, can really make someone strong or weak unless they're strictly guided by current emotions. Decisions made under those conditions tend to be bad ones. Doing things to ensure future happiness is great, but doing things that appear to help in the short term but hurt in the long term is just... stupid.

[sriv]

What is strength? Your view of strength appears to be a cold, hard logician who bends to nothing that does not hold up to his brilliant, unbiased scrutiny.

I find that strength inferior to the strength of a wise, sensitive man; a man who has not only a strong mind, but also a strong heart.

The question it comes down to, a few turns down the road, is what are you living for? Are you here for the numbers or the people? My logic leads me to believe logic isn't as valuable as I would naturally want to believe.

That being said, I would never prefer to think with my heart before my head; only that I would not want a withered, insensitive heart to go with an intelligent mind. For what is the purpose in that? Man is no computer....

Scientifically, the heart has no influence on emotions. They are all in the brain. I cannot believe people are still stuck up on this. Strength as in mental strength, resilience, and reaching creative potential. To me, it just makes so much sense to rely on logic for everything. I now know that emotion is strength when used the right way.

[TheLastMohican]

Scientifically, the heart has no influence on emotions. They are all in the brain. I cannot believe people are still stuck up on this.

That irritates me a lot. It is so incorrect, yet people continue to say "heart" when referring to emotions. :irked:
Before the heart was seen as the location of thought, the stomach was. I wonder why no one refers to the stomach, since it is actually closer to reality than the heart.

[Minerva]

Well, with emotions, sometimes I love them, sometimes I hate them -- I just know that when I use my emotions as my main guide, I end up screwing up. Then again, I'm a teenager, and everything's fucked up internally because of hormones.

What's awful is when emotional split-reactions get the better of people. They need to be thought out and figured out, not just left to fester and be expressed and taken out on your neighbor. I've seen all types of people on this forum get defensive on sensitive topics. I can, too, and all it does is make you look immature.

@fiINTP:

No, you still sound like an INTP. Everyone's got feelin's. It's one of those facts of life things.

Honestly, overly emotional people scare me. Emotions are things that have to be understood for anybody to do anything. The point is, sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong in guiding what you want to do or what needs to get done. You've just got to reason it out.

Emotions are not our only connection with people. F types would like you to think that it is, but it's not. I like my friends and family for a lot of different reasons, but it's very difficult for me to form that 'emotional attachment' that others seem to form so easily.

I don't know... I find this whole conversation a little funny. I need to go and figure out why. Lol.





Haphazard added to this post, 29 minutes and 48 seconds later...

Well, let me put it this way. This tends to be the way that I look at emotions. If it's negative, it goes under the microscope, and decide one of these three things:

1) It is a legitimate complaint. Changes are in order. I do the changes and feel a lot better.
2) It is not a legitimate complaint. A change in attitude is in order. I tell myself to suck it up and end up feeling a lot better.
3) It is a legitimate complaint, but there's nothing I can do about it at the present time. Emotions end up festering, and if this goes on for long enough, I end up exploding in a spectacular fashion.

3 is generally unhealthy. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Joy and positive emotions are to be savored, but I don't usually actively seek them out. They can be very powerful, but usually I'm at about equilibrium.

The point is that life doesn't stop because you're feeling a certain way today. I have to find ways of dealing with emotions so I can get on with my life.

Emotions, I don't think, can really make someone strong or weak unless they're strictly guided by current emotions. Decisions made under those conditions tend to be bad ones. Doing things to ensure future happiness is great, but doing things that appear to help in the short term but hurt in the long term is just... stupid.

I gave this advice before to another on this forum. You are a Thinking person, not a Feeling person. The thing that really irks me is that some people are not able to understand that. Maybe a course in Psychology and an introduction to personality types should become a mandatory course in high school. People really need to be informed! It would take you a while to form these emotional bonds. They may be there already and you are not very aware of them, because your F side is so buried.

I am not surprised that emotional people scare you. A rapid display of emotion must be so alien to you. As you mentioned equilibrium. Equilibrium within yourself is the goal. Only then can you reach your full potential. When I was younger, I used to get very caught up. Now, I do not allow my emotions to dictate my actions. I stop and think the problem through. It will be the opposite for you. But like you said, you are a teenager, and these things will dawn on you. It just takes time.

Life takes you places, and each new experience can teach you something. Go forth and seek knowledge about the world, its people, and most importantly about yourself. There is no greater or nobler pursuit!

[Motor Jax]

i know for me, feelings or emotions come powerfully

whenever i go to work, everyone KNOWS how i'm feeling simply because it looms over me like a cloud

but i have also learned a lot of restraint in containing it

i am naturally a dark gloomy person, with dark burgundy curtains and all lights off in my midnight (though it be in the middle of the day) apartment, my cave

and i couldn't be much happier with having my own dark sanctuary

my apartment speaks volumes for me though

whenever there is something going on, or something happens to trigger my emotions, it comes much more powerful than anything

but i've come to use a little of those emotions to come up with a possible solutions

there are times though, that it comes out

i had a case going on once where i was describing what did or didn't happen (i won't elaborate), but it was a sensitive subject to talk about. and i felt the emotions building with flushed face and pumping heart, and though i sat there impassively with my hands in my lap, i was telling it from my point of view, and i felt my words had a cold sting in them

i wouldn't exactly call it a strength, but i also wouldn't call it a weakness either

it is a very powerful tool though, that only needs to be controlled


i had fallen from grace with it once, very hard
during my second divorce, when my (ex)wife took our daughter and left, and the restraining orders and accusations, i fell... hard...
and for the next 2 years, i had nothing on my mind except drinking, smoking, and "other recreational things"
i also didn't trust anybody, had an emotional breakdown at one point, and all the anger and rage
and also to include my own self-imposed celibacy for those whole 2 1/2 years (jan05-may07)
the only thing on my mind was that next drink and late nights in self torture


being an NF helps though, in picking up on others' emotions

[acyckowski]

That irritates me a lot. It is so incorrect, yet people continue to say "heart" when referring to emotions. :irked:
Before the heart was seen as the location of thought, the stomach was. I wonder why no one refers to the stomach, since it is actually closer to reality than the heart.

I'll be the first to admit that I think with my stomach.

Let's not forget, though, that emotions do tap directly into the peripheral systems of the body. Emotions generate the fight-or-flight response, for example. States of high emotion prime the body for extraordinary output/performance. The brain, along with all its conscious and subconscious defense mechanisms, is bypassed. Thus, the comparison of emotions to tornados.

As nzashadow points out, emotions allow us to "overreach" ourselves. A person who is able to tap into the power of their emotions while maintaining their rational systems of goal-orientation and self-control are better able to sustain a peak level of performance.

This phenomenon is probably familiar to INTJs in the form of passion for problem-solving. At least it is for me. A sufficiently mentally-stimulating objective will get me fired up, and because the mind is already giving direction, it focuses the emotional-phsyiological response on the mental process. I can sustain "action" without food, sleep, or other forms of rest until the problem is solved or I am beyond exhaustion. Once the problem is solved, I'm tired, hungry, and usually too worn out to do anything but sit and stare.

[Minerva]

That irritates me a lot. It is so incorrect, yet people continue to say "heart" when referring to emotions. :irked:
Before the heart was seen as the location of thought, the stomach was. I wonder why no one refers to the stomach, since it is actually closer to reality than the heart.

Using the word heart in this way has become a cliche. The people who use this are not referring to the heart's scientific definition.

[TheLastMohican]

Using the word heart in this way has become a cliche. The people who use this are not referring to the heart's scientific definition.

That's why I hate it all the more.

[acyckowski]

Don't be a hater. Listen to your heart.

[TheLastMohican]

Don't be a hater. Listen to your heart.

:furious:

[Minerva]

:furious:

:laugh:

[sriv]

Don't be a hater. Listen to your heart.

For measuring my pulse? No.

[Hdier]

Some of these posts really scare me...

Anyways, I think that emotion is not in and of itself a strength or weakness, but simply a power which can be used against you, for you, or be neutral (though obviously not that absolute).

I believe that repression causes it to become a weakness after a certain amount of time, but so does 'letting it all out' constantly, the opposite extreme. Once again I think that extremes are bad and that a balance is best.