Vice Versa - What is the value of males?

[futureperfect5]

How did I miss that??? [What is the value of women?]

So, :gorgeous: what can we tell them about our thoughts on the value of males? Be :smart: and share your thoughts on this subject. No need to be embarrassed :blush: ...

Surely, we have a different view on male value than females in the last centuries.

Take the poll and EXPAND ...
let them learn a little what is behind
all of the quite suggestions and brief comments.

[Antares]

I enjoy the company of a male who is:

-Intelligent
-Intellectually stimulating
-Witty
-Humorous
-Decent looking. Doesn't have to be model standard. I'm sorry if I'm shallow this way, but subjectively (and I am a subjective animal), looks do count. Perhaps not much, but it's always counted in my book.
-Good bickering material. That's all I enjoy doing with them at the moment
-No bad habits (namely illegal drugs, smoking, drinking etc)
-Capable of self actualization
-Can take ego blows and not take jokes or insults personally (unlike someone I know who can't stand being reprimanded by my mother because she's a woman and he's a 'big man')
-Logical and reasonable
-Non traditional

I value them as:

-Friends
-Father
-Lovers
-Partners/Colleagues

[pallasathena]

I like a man with a generous spirit. I hate cheap, stingy men. I value intelligence, wit, and householding skills, especially cooking. A man must know how to cook and fend for himself. I hate helpless men. He must be independent and not clingy. He must also be financially independent and have a passion for what he does for a living. He must be a spiritual-minded person who is trying to improve himself every day and in every way. Physically, I like a man who's in decent shape. He doesn't have to be a bodybuilder, but it would be nice. :) Also, I like tall men. My height range is between 5' 10" through 6' 1"". I'm only 5' 5" and anything taller would be too much for me. I would have to carry a stepladder with me on all our dates. Or course, there can be exceptions to all these rules if the right man comes along. The only thing that I refuse to compromise on is proper hygiene. You would think this would be self-explanatory for a grown man by now, but it's not. :yuck:

[curiousjane]

What I look for:

-attitude (arrogance and mistreatment of others is a major turn-off)
-strength of character
-decisiveness (to even out my Perceiving waffling)
-no hang-ups (addictions, past relationship issues, etc.)
-enthusiasm for life (just realized how rare this is)
-intelligence
-well-groomed, but not narcissistic (i.e. knows when something clashes, dresses appropriately for the occasion, isn't sloppy or unkempt)
-can take my relentless teasing! (and can fling it right back)
-smart, sarcastic sense of humor
-In the looks department, I'm pretty flexible, but there are some things I find more attractive in a guy than others, and there are some things I can't stand. In general, I prefer slightly angular features, average build (taller than me), strength without the appearance of a bodybuilder (blech!). I'm a sucker for longish brown hair and great eyes of any color. Only major turn-offs are a pot belly on a skinny guy, extreme obesity, and the ultra-preppy or self-important urban thug looks. Give me a hot nerd any day versus the homecoming king or fraternity president. Yuck. Geeks over greeks, that's my motto. :)

[ceg6]

Intelligent
Logical and rational
Outstanding parenting skills
Responsible
Sense of humor - able to take the good natured sparring/teasing
Confident and decisive
Ambitious and somewhat arrogant in their abilities
Not clingy or needy
Warm and receptive
Hang up free or mostly free
Physically - Tall. Over 6'3. Not skinny but not fat. Athletic to some degree, stays in shape. Chest hair is a huge plus. :thumbsup:

[thod]

Super mates are inaccessible to stunted troll like women with hairy upper lips and the personality of a potato. How about some "must have" and "nice to have" lists.

[Kotetsu]

I hope you're being just a tad idealistic. >_>

[PRBori]

Respectful of others, specially his parents
Honest and brutally direct
Intelligent
Logical and rational
Outstanding parenting skills
Responsible
Confident and decisive
Ambitious and somewhat arrogant
Tall 6+
Must have GOALS and a clear PLAN on how to achieve them
Must have Plan B & C for bumps encounter while trying to reach his goals
Must WORK hard, not a couch potato
Must compliment my background
Must need my brain as much as I will need his...


In addition, I do prefer someone that doesn't drink alcohol, or if he does is moderately, definetely NON-SMOKING, NO DRUGS, NO FELONIES, NO CRIMINAL BACKGROUND, and a recently add requirement... MUST BE A US CITIZEN... and clearable by an FBI background..

Physical wise, he must have a nice face especially the eyes, body wise, well as long as the person is willing to work out for health reasons I have no issues for I'm not perfect myself.

Material wise, I really don't care if the person is stable or not as long as he shows that he is working towards getting himself stable and is working hard. The way I see it, I'll help them reach their goals and in turn they help me with my goals. But hence..... even though I would consider someone not stable, I do have EXTREMELY HIGH requirements


WOW.. OK, I guess I won't find anyone with those requirements, but those are my requirements...:p

[curiousjane]

Actually, I've known many normal guys who met my criteria listed above. They just weren't interested in me (most have married good friends of mine) ... so I'm holdin' out for another one to drop out of the sky. ;)

Sorry, raconteur, I'm a one-man kind of woman. And I'm selfish. I don't like to share.

[Jgib5328]

Actually, I've known many normal guys who met my criteria listed above. They just weren't interested in me (most have married good friends of mine) ... so I'm holdin' out for another one to drop out of the sky. ;)

Sorry, raconteur, I'm a one-man kind of woman. And I'm selfish. I don't like to share.

I heard that INFP females generally end up with a guy pretty easily since a lot of guys like them, so you should be fine.

[aexis]

I've noticed height come up a lot in these lists. How important is it? Would you say height is a dealbreaker/maker?

[thod]

The individual has to obtain enough food to grow to his maximum height. This is an indicator of good genes. He will also be a good provider to children since he has shown his gathering ability and he will be a good protector due to his greater size.

It may not be applicable in the modern world but thats evolutionary biology for ya.

Some would argue that there is a psychological angle to it too. As children we were fed and protected by people much taller than ourselves. We extrapolate that into adulthood.

[curiousjane]

The individual has to obtain enough food to grow to his maximum height. This is an indicator of good genes. He will also be a good provider to children since he has shown his gathering ability and he will be a good protector due to his greater size.

It may not be applicable in the modern world but thats evolutionary biology for ya.

Some would argue that there is a psychological angle to it too. As children we were fed and protected by people much taller than ourselves. We extrapolate that into adulthood.

Oh no, for me it's much more superficial than that: I like to wear heels. Like, 4-inch heels. I don't want to look like I'm a giant!

--
(how does everybody get double quote boxes ... for different responses to different people? This is driving me crazy. I'm not that computer savvy, evidently? PM me and let me know! Thanks!)

aexis, in the past year, I have considered dating two guys who were each an inch shorter than I am. It didn't work out with either of them, but it wasn't because of their height.

That being said, I would like to date guys who at least my height (not so hard, since I'm pretty average in that department). Taller is better because I can rest my head on his shoulder. Hard to do when his head is even with MY shoulder! :p

Oh, and of course my uber-vain high heels issue. I know. I'm so shallow.

[TheLastMohican]

(how does everybody get double quote boxes ... for different responses to different people? This is driving me crazy. I'm not that computer savvy, evidently? PM me and let me know! Thanks!)



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[ceg6]

The individual has to obtain enough food to grow to his maximum height. This is an indicator of good genes. He will also be a good provider to children since he has shown his gathering ability and he will be a good protector due to his greater size.

It may not be applicable in the modern world but thats evolutionary biology for ya.

Some would argue that there is a psychological angle to it too. As children we were fed and protected by people much taller than ourselves. We extrapolate that into adulthood.


It's nothing as lofty as that for me. I seem to attract them for one. I'm 5'5 and all my serious relationships have been 6'3 or more. My husband is 6'5. I also like to wear heels. A shorter man wouldn't be a deal breaker though. It would make dancing easier for sure.

[Uytuun]

If I'm attracted to him, he's interesting, intelligent and not evil, that would be great. I will grant you that a taller man has an advantage. And I'm fairly tall myself.

[Jgib5328]

What height do you consider tall? I'm 5'9-5'10, which is the average male height, but I'm pretty muscular, so I tend to get more respect than my height would normally give me, holding all other relevant variables constant.

[malefide]

I've only been able to find a few traits that I am consistently attracted to, in men or otherwise. All the other traits are too variable.

Consistent factors:

-Intelligence
-Perceptiveness
-Loyalty/Honesty
-Rationality
-Kindness

[xanodel]

I could give you my laundry list, but for me the end result is simple. Does he or does he not like having a female who likes to engage in friendly competition with him, on nearly everything (moreso intellectually)?

Hence, he doesn't have to be the smartest cookie in the jar, just perhaps intellectually curious and capable of thinking. Some independence and self sufficiency might help. But the end it's about ego and whether or not competition scares him. I don't really seek to dominate, but a friend/boyfriend/lover who can't keep me somewhat baited intellectually would bore me to tears-and out the door soon. Hence why I probably end up with more normal male friends than boyfriends. XD

[futureperfect5]

Hmm, I think that I should have written this ...
I liked the neat-and-clean part, too: it's late and I dropped it by accident.

For me, tall is familiar -- the men in my family are tall. It seems natural to me, an impression :baby: for my childhood having my dad and brother, cousins, etc around ... The only departure is that I am 1.73 (almost 5'8 I think), so I like the very tall: I think 6'6" is the record.

Still, it is not a deal breaker: the intelligent person draws my attention, hopefully conversant, not always.

One thing I forgot to ask ... I have never been involved (seriously) with an american guy. Does culture or nationality make a difference in males or are they all the same?

[The poll data does mirror certain statistics and the trends in society. Let me sort that out later today.]

Okay here goes, ... the poll was written to show choice more cynical and ... unfavourable toward the end. Gladly, the most cynical choices were least chosen.

The female knows that she is likely going to be the sole parent in the home with children, this is whether married or not. Likewise, much unlike expected by society in the past ... no one is counting on financial support from the male. This could just be the INTJ emphasis in this forum because I know plenty of women who are "wallet-focused" and still think that they can secure financial support, and perhaps loyalty, by becoming the mother of a male's child(ren).

So, dads and companionable types are the winners here.

I like a man with a generous spirit. I hate cheap, stingy men. I value intelligence, wit, and householding skills, especially cooking. A man must know how to cook and fend for himself. I hate helpless men. He must be independent and not clingy. He must also be financially independent and have a passion for what he does for a living. He must be a spiritual-minded person who is trying to improve himself every day and in every way. Physically, I like a man who's in decent shape. He doesn't have to be a bodybuilder, but it would be nice.

[Uytuun]

What height do you consider tall?

I'm 1.77 m (sometimes 1.78 m), tall is from 1.85-1.90 m I guess. So far all my boyfriends have been taller, sometimes substantially so.

[rwyatt365]

Short guys don't get no respect/love :(

As a young man, there seemed (to me) to be several "zones";

- The "boyfriend zone"; 5'-9" and above with a sweet-spot at 6'-2"
- The "friend zone"; 5'-2" to 5'-6" (where I landed)
- The "dwarf zone"; 5' even and below (otherwise known as the "you gotta be kiddin" zone)

I had a LOT of girl....friends (emphasis on friend).

[TheLastMohican]

Short guys don't get no respect/love :(

As a young man, there seemed (to me) to be several "zones";

- The "boyfriend zone"; 5'-9" and above with a sweet-spot at 6'-2"
- The "friend zone"; 5'-2" to 5'-6" (where I landed)
- The "dwarf zone"; 5' even and below (otherwise known as the "you gotta be kiddin" zone)

I had a LOT of girl....friends (emphasis on friend).

:laugh: I found that bold part quite funny.

I am in the same "zone" as you. Weirdly, my peers all seem to above average. More than half of them are six feet or taller, and the shortest (I think he's the shortest) is 5' 9". The 5' 9" guy commented to me that he's glad I am on his quiz bowl team, because otherwise he'd always be the shortest guy. I found that rather amusing when I noticed it was actually true.

[Katie]

Unless I am mistaken, (rare) it sounds like most of you are looking for me ... I will accept multiple wives; however, I expect you all to contribute to the compound equally ... I say we set up the mating facility with a few goals in mind. Some that come to mind immediately: Writing great works of literature, creating great art, inventing and daily debate. Maybe a few videos?
I'd love to hear your takes?

Great - then all you have to do is drive by the school yard and wave to connect with all your kids. Thanks for the laugh :D

[futureperfect5]

For others, I cannot speak: anyone with confidence, resourcefulness, and integrity gets my respect.

Kindness and companionship seems to work :lovestruck:

[HarleyQuinn]

:laugh: I found that bold part quite funny.

I am in the same "zone" as you. Weirdly, my peers all seem to above average. More than half of them are six feet or taller, and the shortest (I think he's the shortest) is 5' 9". The 5' 9" guy commented to me that he's glad I am on his quiz bowl team, because otherwise he'd always be the shortest guy. I found that rather amusing when I noticed it was actually true.

Found that interesting...

At 5'7" (1.70 meters) every female relationship I've had has started in the 'friend' zone and never transitioned out even on the rare chances I've actually tried to prod the relationship to something more. Like rwyatt, I've had many girlfriends.

Seeing the replies here, while most seem open minded I can't help but be :( upon reading the number of ideal guys being 5'10"+ or worse, 6'0"+.

Maybe I should think about wearing those boots with 3 inch lifts?

[TheLastMohican]

Found that interesting...

At 5'7" (1.70 meters) every female relationship I've had has started in the 'friend' zone and never transitioned out even on the rare chances I've actually tried to prod the relationship to something more. Like rwyatt, I've had many girlfriends.

Seeing the replies here, while most seem open minded I can't help but be :( upon reading the number of ideal guys being 5'10"+ or worse, 6'0"+.

Maybe I should think about wearing those boots with 3 inch lifts?

This makes me curious: Where is the balance between height and good looks?

Would an ugly tall guy or a handsome short guy be preferred?

Oh, and Harley, not to worry: Tom Cruise is also 5'7".

[OneBadMother]

I probably shouldn't say this, but I don't think 5'7" is short at all. In fact, 5'5" to 5'10" is about the ideal height range for a male to me, since I am 5'3".

But yes, intelligence, wit, and a good sense of humor is a plus. Interest in topics that interest me, or interest in learning about such topics would also be good, as well as an open mind to possibilities and acceptance of ideas and experiences outside their own (that latter part especially seems to be tricky). They must also be willing to put up with silly antics in public and either be willing to clean or not particularly care about disaster zone rooms. Emotional or physical leeching is discouraged, though if they just plain can't cook that's all right. Basically, someone who I think is awesome that will also think that I am awesome, who I can live with who can live with me. This is the criteria for an ideal extended roommate/best friend, and the starting criteria accordingly for someone to be with in a relationship.

Relationships get into the above plus physical criteria. As I said before, 5'5" to 5'10" is fine, though I probably wouldn't care much if they were taller. Shorter than me would mostly surprise me, and might be disconcerting. I will admit a preference for skinny guys around my age or at least appearing to be around my age. The cutoff in terms of skinniness is when they are exactly my build or below, but I am very small and that is not likely to be the case in pubescent males. I have a preference for darker hair and hazel or brown eyes, but that's hardly a requirement. The dealbreaker that would make it probably impossible for me to view someone, even fitting the mental criteria, in a physical light, would probably be obesity.

Though I've more or less answered TheLastMohican's question, an attractive short guy would be overwhelmingly preferred.

[Gabrielle]

-taller than me by at least 4 inches (I'm 5'9", or 175cm)
-smarter than I am (not talking about degrees here, just processes faster than me)
-more independent than I am
-not too overweight (but not a dealbreaker, as far as he agrees to a diet)
-Not physically violent
-No addiction... well, smoking I'll forgive

[outrider]

I am in the same "zone" as you. Weirdly, my peers all seem to above average. More than half of them are six feet or taller, and the shortest (I think he's the shortest) is 5' 9". The 5' 9" guy commented to me that he's glad I am on his quiz bowl team, because otherwise he'd always be the shortest guy. I found that rather amusing when I noticed it was actually true.

I'm almost 5'8" and I've been in serious relationships with men 5'6" to 6'2". Current man is a compact 5'9".

Height isn't important to me. He's exactly the right size to hug (okay, all INTJs in unison: eeeTo view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.!!)

[Aurelia]

What height do you consider tall? I'm 5'9-5'10, which is the average male height, but I'm pretty muscular, so I tend to get more respect than my height would normally give me, holding all other relevant variables constant.

Depends on the height of the woman. I'm 5'4" and my husband is 5'9". I like the height he's at. If I were taller then I'd probably want a guy who was 6'0"+

[sriv]

Wow, I am surprised that this many INTJs care about physical characteristics that much. One of the good things about INTJs are that they do not judge people based on appearences.

[DrEast]

I'm a male, and I like me...

[suzyk]

I have a dad and a brother, males aren't a whole other species, you know. Males and females are equal, and I respect them.

[blueback]

Huh... it's really interesting to note the disparity in guys and girls. Is this just some social/cultural thing? All the guys I like are taller by at least 2" whereas all the actresses I like are around the same height if not shorter by a couple inches.

I don't remember who did the study at the moment but apparently the ideal difference in height for maximum relationship length is that the man be 1.09 times the height of the woman. For average heights that works out to about 6 inches of difference.

[xanodel]

Being about 5'1", I would imagine it's hard to find guys shorter than me. Using that ideal height ratio, that would mean about 5'7" or 5'8". Hrmm, only question is, is the ratio there established with or without wearing heels? I tend to like guys around 5'10" or taller, but talking with them for a long time strains my neck, so in the end I talk to their chest rather than their face. Maybe I should wear heels more often...yes that would raise the ideal height ratio to around 5'10".

[abski83]

My guy is great because
- he doesn't hold back
- we're open
- he's a cutie
- we help each other solve our problems
- I love him