Do you feel uncomfortable around ENFJs?

[Jgib5328]

For some reason I see the ENFJs as being people who act very nice to you, but in actuality aren't as nice as they portray themselves to be. I always feel like when I'm talking to them, that what I see of them is an act and that they aren't really as kind hearted as they say they are. I think it may stem from the fact that they are the natural manipulators and they tend to act like that all of the time. I dunno maybe it's just me.

What are your opinions?

[Sylvanus]

For some reason I see the ENFJs as being people who act very nice to you, but in actuality aren't as nice as they portray themselves to be. I always feel like when I'm talking to them, that what I see of them is an act and that they aren't really as kind hearted as they say they are. I think it may stem from the fact that they are the natural manipulators and they tend to act like that all of the time. I dunno maybe it's just me.

What are your opinions?

My wife is an ENFJ. She is very, very nice... to other people. I do think they are (in general) very manipulative, they just have a different way of doing it. A killing you with kindness sort of way.

[Vicimdhar]

Extraverted Feeling is supposed to be our 7th (Deceiving/Devilish/Trickster) process. So, it's apparently natural that we feel like that when someone uses Fe on us. However, it's often not meant manipulative so it's a feeling that has to be conquered.

[raconteur213]

I find them to be rather obvious due to either their overacting or my ability to read people. Therefore, when I see this bad attempt at overcompensating, I tend to go along with it to suit my needs.

That said, once I see through them, I never turn my back on them.

[Jgib5328]

Whenever I encounter an ENFJ, it seems like their kindness is not sincere and they are doing it out of obligation or doing it because they don't want to feel like a bad person.

[Uytuun]

One of my best friends tested as ENFJ. She says - and I agree - that she's borderline E/I though and I think her T is pretty well-developped too. She's a genuinely nice person.

[pinkroger]

Hilter and Obama are/were ENFJ's...why do the Jews support Obama? Anyway, they are very manipulative, and so are we, but in a different way. We are more subtle (although often less successful). They do seem falsely cooperative and "nice." This leads me to avoid them.

[Jgib5328]

Hilter and Obama are/were ENFJ's...why do the Jews support Obama? Anyway, they are very manipulative, and so are we, but in a different way. We are more subtle (although often less successful). They do seem falsely cooperative and "nice." This leads me to avoid them.

Hitler wasn't an ENFJ. From all of my accounts that I've read on him, he is definitely an I. From accounts that I heard about him he had P tendencies and clearly he was an F. I HEARD that he was an ISFP, it's make sense since he was an artist, but I mean I'm not sure, I also heard INFP.

[Haphazard]

Hilter and Obama are/were ENFJ's...why do the Jews support Obama?

Because Naziism and MBTI type are not correlated? :thinking:

People like the way you describe -- but not necessarily ENFJs, but act similar -- do tend to freak me out. People who are outwardly nice and affectionate in that way do tend to strike me as false and make me extremely uncomfortable. This is why I've had a lot of trouble with people that everyone else seems to like.

[Brutananadilewski]

Hilter and Obama are/were ENFJ's...why do the Jews support Obama? Anyway, they are very manipulative, and so are we, but in a different way. We are more subtle (although often less successful). They do seem falsely cooperative and "nice." This leads me to avoid them.

Godwin's Law! It never fails!

(I derive an odd pleasure of seeing it come to fruition time and time again).

[xanodel]

It depends. One of my closest friends ( he and I just clicked immediately) is an ENFJ. I think it's an issue of whether or not they have learned to balance their emotional needs with the emotional needs of others. Once they get a good grasp on that, and hold themselves to high personal morals (and moderate their need to stuff it down your throat), they are very nice people to be around.

[Solaris]

Many ENFJs just freak me out. It's like they look right through me, and I don't really like that. Plus, they seem to have this overwhelming need to make these deep, tight connections with people. However, I know two, and they are good friends. The male ENFJ is the one who really can freak me out though. I don't fully understand their need to make others feel better all the time...like we need fixing or something?

[Sylvanus]

Godwin's Law! It never fails!

(I derive an odd pleasure of seeing it come to fruition time and time again).

It kind of just came out of nowhere though. Normally there's a succession of events that lead to someone saying "Hitler and everyone I disagree with are all the same".

[NeonTetra]

This thread makes me inordinately happy! :lovestruck:

Jgib next time your curtains rustle or you hear the squeak in the hallway, it's an ENFJ coming to unmercifully tickle you. RAWR.

[Sylvanus]

This thread makes me inordinately happy! :lovestruck:

Jgib next time your curtains rustle or you hear the squeak in the hallway, it's an ENFJ coming to unmercifully tickle you. RAWR.

If they were an INTp tehy would just Huggle (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) you.

[INTJoe]

I don't think I know any ENFJ's in real life. Aren't they supposed to be the "Teachers"?

[Jgib5328]

This thread makes me inordinately happy! :lovestruck:

Jgib next time your curtains rustle or you hear the squeak in the hallway, it's an ENFJ coming to unmercifully tickle you. RAWR.

Now that I know that, I fear that I can never be at ease again. I now have to be on the sharp look out for all of you scary ENFJs.

[errrzarrr]

Hitler wasn't an ENFJ. From all of my accounts that I've read on him, he is definitely an I. From accounts that I heard about him he had P tendencies and clearly he was an F. I HEARD that he was an ISFP, it's make sense since he was an artist, but I mean I'm not sure, I also heard INFP.

Hitler a I ? he was a pretty good orator, he could connect to the emotions of the masses, he even conviced a group of oppositors on their own speech ground. That sounds me E.

[xanodel]

Hitler a I ? he was a pretty good orator, he could connect to the emotions of the masses, he even conviced a group of oppositors on their own speech ground. That sounds me E.

Actually I think there was a debate before on other sites, and most people think he leans more towards INFJ. The Fe with a decent Ti could help him in debates and connect with the masses emotionally.

There's nothing saying that to be a great orator you must be E. There are plenty of shy E's who are literally scared of public speaking (I know an ENTJ who's like that). Conversely there are plenty of I's who can do terrifically well in public speaking. If you actually look around the forum a but more, a couple of us INTJs were debaters in high school. I did policy debate for four years, model UN for all four years of college. Got really nice sparkly speaking awards-despite my near 100% I.

The question for E/I is simply does the person feed off of the energy of others. I think Hitler was far more internally driven than externally driven, maybe a more moderate I, but I think I would classify him as an I too. Remember, most of his speeches were somewhat constructed beforehand, and he was familiar with his subject-and he also generally went on uninterrupted. That makes it a lot harder to say because he was a great orator, he must be an E.

[Jgib5328]

Hitler a I ? he was a pretty good orator, he could connect to the emotions of the masses, he even conviced a group of oppositors on their own speech ground. That sounds me E.

He was definitely an I, have you not read anything about him? He was really reclusive and liked to spend a lot of time in solitude. He just happened to be one of the greatest orators ever.

[ceg6]

I love my ENFJ very much. He never wants to "fix" me and I truly appreciate that. ENFJ always comes up as an INTJ's least likely to succeed relationship so I find our relationship funny because of that. He likes my weirdness and I like his warmth. It works.

[december]

I think many ENTJ's simply want others to like them. So even when they mean well, their desire to be accepted and like often stops them from being sincere. I know many nice ENTJ's, but I also know some who can be very insecure, which can make it more difficult to get along with them.





december added to this post, 1 minutes and 18 seconds later...

I meant ENFJ's

[Jgib5328]

I dunno, maybe it's just me. I see the ENFJ as always presenting an image to the public, which bothers me.


*700th post*

[Motor Jax]

hitler was an INTJ or INTP

probably INTJ since he had his takeover of Europe planned since 1933

i think he was introverted because public speaking is different than just chewing the fat with someone. you don't address people personally

Public speaking requires skill and confidence but no extroversion. In fact, introverts can find it much easier to speak in front of many than extroverts. The key is not to be personal when speaking but to use skill.

Extraverted Feeling is supposed to be our 7th (Deceiving/Devilish/Trickster) process. So, it's apparently natural that we feel like that when someone uses Fe on us. However, it's often not meant manipulative so it's a feeling that has to be conquered.

so, is this implied to mean that anyone with "NF" does, can, or appear to use 'Fe' to manipulate?

[Jgib5328]

hitler was an INTJ or INTP

probably INTJ since he had his takeover of Europe planned since 1933

i think he was introverted because public speaking is different than just chewing the fat with someone. you don't address people personally

Public speaking requires skill and confidence but no extroversion. In fact, introverts can find it much easier to speak in front of many than extroverts. The key is not to be personal when speaking but to use skill.



so, is this implied to mean that anyone with "NF" does, can, or appear to use 'Fe' to manipulate?

Hitler wasn't a T, he was definitely an F, again have you read actual accounts of his life? He was a really sensitive person and didn't always think logically, he went with how he felt. That's also how he was able to be one of the most charismatic speakers, he was able to dip into his feelings and just let it out. I've seen him typed as an ISFP several times, and I think I agree with that, that or maybe ISFJ. He was an artist after all.

[American Quest 1983]

I think any type of personality can be manipulative. ENFJ's from my experience are extremely emotional and loving people. Sometimes, however they can use that emotion and warmth to get what they want. ENFJ's can be as selfish as any other personality type, but they are more successful due to their high social IQ

[Aressera]

I know several confirmed ENFJs, two female and one male.

The male one was my roommate for one year at school. He and I connected really well and were able to have long and meaningful conversations, although he approached them from a totally different perspective. He was much more concerned with people's feelings and doing what he felt was right, and felt obligated to do things to help other people and stood by his beliefs. He is also highly intelligent.

One of the females is my current girlfriend. She's similar to my ex roommate, but more feel-y and she gets hurt really easily. I often make comments in jest which she takes as an insult. When she gets hurt or feels bad about something, she latches onto that negative emotion and doesn't let go for a long time, further exacerbating the issue. I don't quite understand this, when she could just shrug it off and be done with the usually insignificant issue. However, if there is anything I do like about her, it's her ability to accept me for who I really am under the surface. This is something I can really admire, as most people aren't able to do this.

The only foreseeable problem with her and our relationship is that I have a hard time thinking of her as a romantic interest, mostly because she is so accepting that she doesn't challenge me in any way. She's not unintelligent, but at my university she's only average, and I can't really talk with her about anything too. technical (though social topics are easy for her to talk about).

On the whole, I see ENFJs as being good friends who can be accepting of INTJ-ness and help us to see a different perspective (feeling) on life and social situations.

[Jgib5328]

Haha, I'm actually going to share a house with 4 other people next year and one is an ENFJ, but he's my friend though.

[Serket]

Other than my mum I know one other ENFJ. She is very intelligent but acts ditzy and cutsy all the time. This really annoys me. I feel like she's doing it to manipulate people.

[pensivemuse7]

although ENFJ and INTJ are not ideally compatible, I think a successful relationship is possible. I think strength of preferences can make a difference. The more balanced, the better, obviously. I could be uncomfortable around INTJs but I get them. Honestly, perception makes a difference as well.

[Ace1337]

I always end up being friends or falling in love with NF types. I know 3 confirmed ENFJ's, two females and one male. ENFJs are nice to people most of the time, and they are successful at making people feel good, but I've learned from my experience with them that you have to be very careful not to offend them. You can't be a true INTJ with them, because they'll change their niceness really fast if you use irony or sarcastic comments on them. I can always win a debate with them but I don't want to because they are so nice to me, I think am maybe manipulated by them, but who cares, as long as I feel good while talking to them. They also have the ability to laugh at anything, they're so good at acting laughter or interest that you need years to recognize their acting.

wow, that's a big post, you can see how much ENFJs have influenced me from that :D

[Asylum]

I don't know about ENFJs, but I'm beginning to wonder if the people I have the most trouble getting along with are INFJs. They could be an S type ... ISFJs. Would ISFJs be manipulative?

The ones that tend to try me crazy are silly (even dumb) and irrational, they also don't seem to pick up on my hints so perhaps they are an S type.

+The only NFJ person I know for sure, is a teacher I have. She cares very much about everyone, but that J function about kills me. She's strict about the time schedule and getting activities in she wants in. I think when I start talking to her, sometimes, I begin to irritate her. I assume it's because I'm keeping her from something, her plans...

[suzyk]

I would get along well with an ENFJ because I'm an internal extrovert, of that makes any sense. I have a whole hidden part of me that's extroverted.

The ENFJ may feel quite lonely even when surrounded by people. This feeling of aloneness may be exacerbated by the tendency to not reveal their true selves.

I get that. Happens to me all the time.

People love ENFJs. They are fun to be with, and truly understand and love people. They are typically very straight-forward and honest. Usually ENFJs exude a lot of self-confidence, and have a great amount of ability to do many different things. They are generally bright, full of potential, energetic and fast-paced. They are usually good at anything which captures their interest.

Ah, how opposites attract. I wish I had a friend like this.

[Sylvanus]

I was thinking on this then I realized why we think of ENFJ's like this, then I had to reference it. The whole thing is interesting, but especially about NF's in general. I recommend reading the whole thing if you have the cahnce.

Types (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)


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Kant's choleric character is not moved by any inner drive or consideration but by a concern for the appearance he presents to others. The key terms for this type are thus honor, reputation, shame, and propriety. "He has no feeling for the beauty or worth of actions" [p.69], but is guided by standards that only exist in the estimation of others. This concern with appearances and surfaces is conformable to Paglia's view of the Apollonian character, which only involves the surface of things, and the role of the external as the source of authority, heteronomous in Kant's terms, is conformable to an Authoritarian viewpoint. Among the drawbacks for the type, according to Kant, is that the choleric character "is therefore very much given to dissembling, hypocritical in religion, a flatterer in society, and he capriciously changes his political affiliation according to changing circumstances" [p.69]. These are all tributes to the superficiality and lack of autonomy of the type.


It then goes on to say:

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Finally, Slytherin House, whose colors are green and silver, is the place for those, also clever, whose priority is ambition. Also, it only accepted, at least originally, those of "pure" magical blood. The element of pride here and of concern for appearances matches it up nicely with the Choleric personality. Its animal is the snake, which also suggests the attraction of the House to the Dark Arts.

[True Rune]

I never look for certain "traits" in people, but there are those who imply an insincere kindness, and...then when said person leaves the room, it's..really annoying.

[EsoteriEccentri]

Hitler wasn't an ENFJ. From all of my accounts that I've read on him, he is definitely an I. From accounts that I heard about him he had P tendencies and clearly he was an F. I HEARD that he was an ISFP, it's make sense since he was an artist, but I mean I'm not sure, I also heard INFP.

I heard INFP, too.
I've heard lots of people say he was an INFP..

Oh dear. =/

Also ISFPs tend to be interested in crafty art - sewing, clay, and such. I think it's the S that makes them interested in the feel of things, textures. I've heard an ISFP say that it soothes them to feel something beneath their fingers.
Whereas INFPs tend to be interested in painting and drawing and writing. Like I am ^^

[gabe]

Whenever I encounter an ENFJ, it seems like their kindness is not sincere and they are doing it out of obligation or doing it because they don't want to feel like a bad person.

Well, disregarding this person's type (as you claim it) here's some ideas

- This person (who may or may not have a preference for extraverted feeling) is really being insencere, and you percieve it as such

(this next piece is from 'whole' or '8-level' type theory)
-If you really have INTJ prefs. then you will percieve extraverted feeling through the 'trickster archetype' and many (maybe even most) expressions of extraverted feeling will appear insincere to you whether they actually are or not. I encourage you to read about extraverted feeling To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and the 'trickster' archetype To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. or google "evolving the 8-function model" or "type and typology" for arcehtypes.

[pensivemuse7]

Also ISFPs tend to be interested in crafty art - sewing, clay, and such. I think it's the S that makes them interested in the feel of things, textures. I've heard an ISFP say that it soothes them to feel something beneath their fingers.
Whereas INFPs tend to be interested in painting and drawing and writing. Like I am ^^

If it helps, Hitler was a painter who got rejected from some art school. So INFP?

[Calaveras]

Out of all the people I have known to be NFs, I get along with ENFJs the best.

C.

[TehBeefah]

One of my good friends is an ENFJ. He reminds me socially of Charlie Brown, except is extremely judgmental. He is so set in his values, that if you even mention alcohol to him, he leaves the conversation. He also hates Al Gore with a fiery passion, which is ironic because some websites put him as an ENFJ.

[Rowan]

One of my best friends is an ENFJ and we get along brilliantly; I do find his habit of accusing me of ‘manipulating people with logic’ frustrating, particularly when he proceeds to successfully manipulate everyone around him with emotive arguments. Nonetheless, he’s a very moral, stable and interesting person.

He is so set in his values, that if you even mention alcohol to him, he leaves the conversation.

My friend does that as well; he hardly ever uses obscene words either.

[pensivemuse7]

well... I don't have that problem. Well I use to be all about not using obscene words (when not angry) or even thought of drinking. But being with an INTJ, he has opened me a lot more. I don't drink as much as he does, but I am open to it, and will do it every now and then (depending what is available). And my job involves a lot of cussing so... but I guess I am not like many ENFJs because I see myself as more open and not so strict with certain values. The experiences that INTJs have had with other ENFJs do not exactly apply to me. But I guess we have to realize that our preference strength varies and we cannot be fit exactly into our type. It just depends.

[Rei]

They are people I'll always be wary of.
Although the ones I know tend to be extremely open to me and tell me just about everything.
But it would never make me feel safe enough to tell them much more than enough to cover the surface though.

In reference to the ones I know...
They may tell you a lot, but it doesn't seem they ever give you their true opinion when it really matters. They'll tell you what you want to hear, and I get really, REALLY tired of that.

[lordrrr]

I am pretty sure my Health teacher is ENFJ, I would not doubt it one bit, and am willing to bet my bank account on it even. He seems to fit the bill, and he always makes me uncomfortable, asking me all these personal questions and such, and pretending to take an interest in what I do even though it's obvious he doesn't care at all.

[INTJCanuck]

I knew an ENFJ back in high school, haven't seen her in years but still talk to her over MSN the odd time. She was nice to me, but mostly because she really liked me. I can see how she would be manipulative to others, but she never dared pull anything like that on me because I have no tolerance for that behavior whatsoever, and since I've never seen her do it to anyone else, who am I to say.

I never felt too awkward talking to her, mostly because we share a common interest very strongly. But sometimes she would go off on these bizarre tangents out of the blue that would go right over my head. So she sometimes came across as very unorthodox. After a while I would grow sick of talking to her, and either just smile and nod, or go somewhere else. But she was relentless, and since she doesn't treat me badly like other people mentioned ENFJ's sometimes do, and is refreshing to talk to once in a while, I've held on to the friendship.

Rei, I also get the feeling that she often tells me what I want to hear rather than her own opinion on something.

[acrossthefourthwall]

One of my closest friends is an ENFJ; she is one of the kindest and most sincere people I have ever met. Astonishingly empathetic. We're actually quite a good match when it comes to giving advice; she reminds me to stay in touch with my feelings, while I help her out with characteristically ultra-rational perspectives on situations that are very emotional for her. (She is very passionate about her political opinions and sometimes does get frustrated when others don't share them, but to her credit she always stays aware of the potential effect that vocalising these views could have.)

[JasonM]

I'm an INFJ. Although I'm clearly not an ENFJ, I'm close enough in type to be able to explain ENFJ behaviour. I think the EF preference leads to a combination of utilitarian and Kantian values. Utilitarianism believes that an act is right if it promotes happiness. A Kantian believes that an act is right if it is done out of duty and principle. I try not to offend other people. The reason for this is because I feel it is my duty to make decent people happy (or at least not offend them). Offending someone goes against the utilitarian principle that an act is right because it promotes happiness. Therefore, I might disagree with someone about something, but to avoid hurting their feelings, I won't tell them. The problem is that I simply don't have the tools to tell someone that they're wrong tactfully - I would sound so blunt that I would probably offend them, so I try to be nice to avoid harming them. Now, if someone treats myself or someone else badly, I no longer view them as being worthy of being treated with respect, because they don't treat others with respect, and so it's open season on them.

This is beside the point, but one thing that I don't buy into is that Ts are more "logical" than Fs. Logic is a function of intelligence. It doesn't make sense to think that less agreeable people have greater capacities with logic than feelers. In fact, in a sample of science students at Berkeley listed in "Gifts Differing," there were nearly as many INFJs and INFPs as there were INTJs and INTPs. How could science, a field that depends heavily on logic, have so many NFs, if feelers are less logical? It simply doesn't make sense. What's happened is that the word "logical" has become twisted. The MBTI shouldn't mean to say that thinkers are more adept at logical thinking. Jung meant that thinkers are "logical" because they oriented toward expressing what they think is the truth in social matters, even at the expense of others feelings. Jung even mentions how extraverted feelers can be quite adept at thinking, but they won't be logical when something contradicts their values. Therefore, I think everyone should lose the idea that being a T gives you a greater capacity to think logically.

[Rowan]

This is beside the point, but one thing that I don't buy into is that Ts are more "logical" than Fs. Logic is a function of intelligence. It doesn't make sense to think that less agreeable people have greater capacities with logic than feelers. In fact, in a sample of science students at Berkeley listed in "Gifts Differing," there were nearly as many INFJs and INFPs as there were INTJs and INTPs. How could science, a field that depends heavily on logic, have so many NFs, if feelers are less logical? It simply doesn't make sense. What's happened is that the word "logical" has become twisted. The MBTI shouldn't mean to say that thinkers are more adept at logical thinking. Jung meant that thinkers are "logical" because they oriented toward expressing what they think is the truth in social matters, even at the expense of others feelings. Jung even mentions how extraverted feelers can be quite adept at thinking, but they won't be logical when something contradicts their values. Therefore, I think everyone should lose the idea that being a T gives you a greater capacity to think logically.

Indeed; as I have been arguing on a different thread logic is a tool. Perhaps Ts are more motivated to use this tool than Fs, but to say they are more motivated by logic, or that they are inherently more logical, is absurd. Logic, reason, rationality are means to ends anyone can utilise.

[sriv]

Do you feel uncomfortable around ENFJs?

I feel uncomfortable around most people. I do feel very uncomfortable around ENFJs, but their manipulation does not affect me as much as others. If I were F it probably would affect me a lot.

[acrossthefourthwall]

This is beside the point, but one thing that I don't buy into is that Ts are more "logical" than Fs. Logic is a function of intelligence. It doesn't make sense to think that less agreeable people have greater capacities with logic than feelers. In fact, in a sample of science students at Berkeley listed in "Gifts Differing," there were nearly as many INFJs and INFPs as there were INTJs and INTPs. How could science, a field that depends heavily on logic, have so many NFs, if feelers are less logical? It simply doesn't make sense. What's happened is that the word "logical" has become twisted. The MBTI shouldn't mean to say that thinkers are more adept at logical thinking. Jung meant that thinkers are "logical" because they oriented toward expressing what they think is the truth in social matters, even at the expense of others feelings. Jung even mentions how extraverted feelers can be quite adept at thinking, but they won't be logical when something contradicts their values. Therefore, I think everyone should lose the idea that being a T gives you a greater capacity to think logically.
Point well-taken. Above all I meant 'ultra-rational' in the sense of 'detached from emotion'.