The No Stupid Questions Thread - LBGT Questions

[TheBlackKnight]

Well, I've been seeing alot of gay-themed threads, and there was that asexual one a while back, so I thought I'd start this up.

Anyone have any questions about/for anyone in the LBGT community?

For anyone unaware, LBGT stands for Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay and Transgender/Transexual, and also includes Asexuals, Queer/Questioning, Intersexed, Allies... it's the alphabet soup community, I'm probably missing someone somewhere. But that should get us started.

[shaunmikex]

As a homosexual myself, I'm unsure of whether or not I would define myself as being in the "gay community".


A question to fellow homosexuals: Do you feel as though something such as sexuality should define a "community" or "lifestyle" of people.

I get offended when people attribute my life as a "gay lifestyle" as it often connotes more than sexual interactions. Do you (gays) think that we are pigeonholed into having a certain form of interaction even within the gay community? And if so, do you find hints at bisexuality and homosexuality in the media for "shock value" is offensive and detrimental to equality?

[Pillowmint]

How do gays find partners? If you don't TELL everyone that you're gay, and you don't act in a stereotypically "gay" manner, how would you know if someone else wants to get in a relationship with you?

[mormeguil]

Well, some people have what they call ca gaydar. They seem to be able to tell who is gay and who is not just by seeing them.

Otherwise, there are gay meeting groupes, internet and gay bars where you can find someoneé

Also, most people tell whoever they are comfortable with. I have told my coworkers and my friends that i'm gay so sometime they will want to present me someone.

Finally, I have asked a few guys out a bit randomly. Never worked so far and only one person really freaked out.

Another small trick, you can have a gay magazine (nothing pornographic) around with you. Most people will not reconize it as such

[Deliberator]

How does the masculine/feminine thing work psychologically? For example, in some female homosexual relationships there sometimes is one who is more masculine and the other more feminine. The psychology of the woman who prefers feminine women makes sense to me, because it's almost as though the woman feels as though she is a man in all other ways except biologically. But how does the psychology work for the feminine lesbian who likes masculine women? Or the masculine man who prefers feminine men? There seems to be a disconnect between attraction to gender versus attraction to sex that I don't necessarily understand.


"There are no stupid questions... just stupid people."
- Anon

[Fox]

I love stupid Questions! I excel at them!

Seriously the Lisp and all the stereotypical traits like it. That is like all an act right so the Straights and Gays can tell each other apart? You can't naturally all be gay and suffering from the same common speech disorder.

[JTG]

How does the masculine/feminine thing work psychologically? For example, in some female homosexual relationships there sometimes is one who is more masculine and the other more feminine. The psychology of the woman who prefers feminine women makes sense to me, because it's almost as though the woman feels as though she is a man in all other ways except biologically. But how does the psychology work for the feminine lesbian who likes masculine women? Or the masculine man who prefers feminine men? There seems to be a disconnect between attraction to gender versus attraction to sex that I don't necessarily understand.


"There are no stupid questions... just stupid people."
- Anon

I have always wondered this. In wal-mart once i saw what i thought was a mother and her adolescent son. I shortly realized that it was a lesbian couple, and i pondered why somebody who prefers women would end up with somebody who is, aesthetically speaking, a male.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with it. I think to each their own. I just don't understand why the attraction to women if not feminine women.

(and i prefer the alternate quote: "There are no stupid people, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots" haha)

[Mader]

Feather boas and high heels - when did this leave the nightclubs?

Along with the above, I don't remember any 'really gay' men the firsst 35 years of my life - Iknow they were there, but they weren't out-of-the-closet dramatic. Why the change.

Men wearing foundation in public - why? I mean, if I could get away with no makeup and no hair, I would.

Do you ever feel confined by being called Gay, or Lesbian or Bi-Sexual? For me it is a label and I would rather think of folks as individuals.

Has anyone ever prayed for you in public or 'layed hands' on you hoping for your conversion?

Are you offended by the folks who are LGBT and go to a clinic to change to heterosexual? Do you feel betrayed? Do you feel sorry for them? Do you think that maybe they are not LGBT, just really confused about sex?

[mormeguil]

Alright, I have quite a bit of work to do it seems so lets get this going.

How does the masculine/feminine thing work psychologically?

There really is no answer to that. I mean, even a very feminin man will still be a man and you will see it. Still, i'm guessing this is mostly a trend/fashion in homosexual community and that this is viewed as beautifull. It still should be noted that most homosexual couples are very regular looking person...you just don't really notice them.

Seriously the Lisp and all the stereotypical traits like it. That is like all an act right so the Straights and Gays can tell each other apart? You can't naturally all be gay and suffering from the same common speech disorder.

Once again, most homosexual do not conform to those stereotype. I have seen my share of heterosexual who acted that way. It's probably that most homosexual already feel appart from society and as such do not have the same need to follow social norms. Since this behavior is better accepted they probably don't try to change those habits.


Along with the above, I don't remember any 'really gay' men the firsst 35 years of my life - Iknow they were there, but they weren't out-of-the-closet dramatic. Why the change.

Men wearing foundation in public - why? I mean, if I could get away with no makeup and no hair, I would.

Well, trend have changed quite a bit. It's really not that far fetched to see man wearing some light makeup and it's becoming more comon. I guess that boundaries between sexes are slowly disseapering and it's mostly groupes that are already a bit outside the norms that embrace it first.

Do you ever feel confined by being called Gay, or Lesbian or Bi-Sexual? For me it is a label and I would rather think of folks as individuals.


Well I view it as any other form of label. Something usefull but not really important as long as you are not too regid with them. I say im gay because I have never been attracted to a women. If I am by one at some point, well everything I don't really care.

I do despise hearing about "gay lifestyle". That does not exist. I'm just living an average lige except it's a bit harder to meet people to go out with.

Has anyone ever prayed for you in public or 'layed hands' on you hoping for your conversion?

Religion is almost non-existent here so no, never happened.

Are you offended by the folks who are LGBT and go to a clinic to change to heterosexual? Do you feel betrayed? Do you feel sorry for them? Do you think that maybe they are not LGBT, just really confused about sex?

I feel sorry for them because they are either being scam, pressured or tortured. It simply does not work and cause more pain then good. End of story. I think they are even illegal around here.

[Deliberator]

I feel sorry for them because they are either being scam, pressured or tortured. It simply does not work and cause more pain then good. End of story. I think they are even illegal around here.

I think this is a little close-minded; I read a story once about a guy who was homosexual but felt that the reason for this was because he had been abused as a child. Upon his own initiative he eventually converted himself by watching heterosexual porn, which he claimed released his true heterosexuality. I know it's not politically correct to say so, but it seems as though some homosexuality can arise from both biological causes and from psychological causes. What do you think?

[Necrosis]

Would you still have sex with a woman if your a gay man? Or for lesbians, would still have sex with a man? Would it do nothing for you? Would it still be fun?

Also - when or how did you know you were gay? (I don't mean that in any offending way I just don't know how to phrase this)

[Kmal]

For gay males - have you ever had sex with a woman to compare? What is the mentality that helps you say "yeah, being gay is ok"? Being an INTJ, do you think being gay is inefficient? I mean penis + penis = ???? penis + vagina = sex

For lesbians - have you ever had sex with a man to compare? Same 2nd question.

[TheBlackKnight]

Holy. That didn't take long. Alright, let's get started:

A question to fellow homosexuals: Do you feel as though something such as sexuality should define a "community" or "lifestyle" of people.

I think of it as the shared culture. It's what we, as a collective, use to cope with oppression. I absolutely hate the word "lifestyle," though - we don't all live the exact same way. There's liberals and republicans and all that - we're not like cowboys or of a shared religion or something.

Do you (gays) think that we are pigeonholed into having a certain form of interaction even within the gay community? And if so, do you find hints at bisexuality and homosexuality in the media for "shock value" is offensive and detrimental to equality?

Not within the community itself, no. But from straight people using the term, definitely.

I find it offensive if that is all there is to it - pure shock value, and not trying to show that there are people out who happen to not be straight.

---------- Post added 03-31-2010 at 11:34 AM ----------

How do gays find partners? If you don't TELL everyone that you're gay, and you don't act in a stereotypically "gay" manner, how would you know if someone else wants to get in a relationship with you?

Well, to add onto what mormeguil said, there's visual signs that some people use - the Rachel Maddow look, I think they call it now. Short hair, short nails, boots :) (For the girls, obviously.) And then there's little things that only the people who are meant to know what it means will recognize - a Human Rights Campaign sticker, for example. That's usually picked up on.

---------- Post added 03-31-2010 at 11:38 AM ----------

But how does the psychology work for the feminine lesbian who likes masculine women? Or the masculine man who prefers feminine men? There seems to be a disconnect between attraction to gender versus attraction to sex that I don't necessarily understand

Sometimes they're trying to copy a straight relationship, since that's all they know. Other times, that's just what they're attracted to - the "female" body type and "masculine" look, or vice versa. It just doesn't match up the same way society says it should, is all. Think of it like a mix-n-match.

The psychology of the woman who prefers feminine women makes sense to me, because it's almost as though the woman feels as though she is a man in all other ways except biologically.

You're getting more on the grounds of a transgendered person, here.

---------- Post added 03-31-2010 at 11:40 AM ----------

Seriously the Lisp and all the stereotypical traits like it. That is like all an act right so the Straights and Gays can tell each other apart? You can't naturally all be gay and suffering from the same common speech disorder.

Haha :) To be honest I'm not entirely sure. I think it's just done to show gay pride, in a way that straight people will recognize, too.

---------- Post added 03-31-2010 at 11:44 AM ----------

Do you ever feel confined by being called Gay, or Lesbian or Bi-Sexual? For me it is a label and I would rather think of folks as individuals.

Not personally, but I don't think of it as any different than saying "vegetarian" or "atheist."

Has anyone ever prayed for you in public or 'layed hands' on you hoping for your conversion?

I had an attempted exorcism once. Not pleasant.

Are you offended by the folks who are LGBT and go to a clinic to change to heterosexual? Do you feel betrayed? Do you feel sorry for them? Do you think that maybe they are not LGBT, just really confused about sex?

I feel sorry for them - it's done from an atmosphere of oppression, and there's usually so much self-hate involved. Society makes it so difficult for them to accept themselves that they'll try anything to not have to go through it anymore.

---------- Post added 03-31-2010 at 11:46 AM ----------

I think this is a little close-minded; I read a story once about a guy who was homosexual but felt that the reason for this was because he had been abused as a child. Upon his own initiative he eventually converted himself by watching heterosexual porn, which he claimed released his true heterosexuality. I know it's not politically correct to say so, but it seems as though some homosexuality can arise from both biological causes and from psychological causes. What do you think?

I have some questions for you. If sexual abuse turns you gay, why are there are so many straight survivors of sexual abuse? If you watched a bucketload of gay porn, would that convince you to be sexually attracted to your own sex?

---------- Post added 03-31-2010 at 11:49 AM ----------

Would you still have sex with a woman if your a gay man? Or for lesbians, would still have sex with a man? Would it do nothing for you? Would it still be fun?

It would be incredibly unpleasant, so no.

Also - when or how did you know you were gay? (I don't mean that in any offending way I just don't know how to phrase this)

Don't worry, you phrased that well :) I knew in high school, because that was the first time I came out of my head enough to actually pay attention to which classmates I was attracted to.

---------- Post added 03-31-2010 at 11:52 AM ----------

For gay males - have you ever had sex with a woman to compare? What is the mentality that helps you say "yeah, being gay is ok"? Being an INTJ, do you think being gay is inefficient? I mean penis + penis = ???? penis + vagina = sex

For lesbians - have you ever had sex with a man to compare? Same 2nd question.

No, because I know I wouldn't like it. I don't feel like I should have to prove that I'm gay. Straight people don't have to, but for some reason you can't be sure of any other orientation until you've tried the norm.

Mentality, one of pure acceptance and embracing differences.

Inefficient, no, because I think of it as natural population control, more like a natural counterbalance to overpopulation. (Not everyone thinks of it that way, though, but as long as you're just asking me personally...)

I don't agree that PIV is the only definition of sex. Straight men have fantasies about anal sex with women, don't they? Why does that count but two men doesn't?

[Kmal]

No, because I know I wouldn't like it. I don't feel like I should have to prove that I'm gay. Straight people don't have to, but for some reason you can't be sure of any other orientation until you've tried the norm.

Mentality, one of pure acceptance and embracing differences.

Inefficient, no, because I think of it as natural population control, more like a natural counterbalance to overpopulation. (Not everyone thinks of it that way, though, but as long as you're just asking me personally...)

I don't agree that PIV is the only definition of sex. Straight men have fantasies about anal sex with women, don't they? Why does that count but two men doesn't?
You shouldn't have to prove that you're gay, but you also don't know you wouldn't like vagina. I mean, hell, I don't KNOW if I'd like gay sex, but I won't be trying it.

New question - if you're so open to things, why not try sex with a girl?

The mentality... that doesn't really answer my question. I'll rephrase: how can you rationalize being gay? Or is it emotional? I understand the mentality you posted above, but I don't see WHY.

Haha I like the population control ideal. :p

Hmm, I guess it depends on your subjective view on sex. Sex = PIV. Anal sex = anal sex. Gay sex = gay sex? But of course, some people's feelings are hurt when they are not included in the "norm" (but they aren't "normal" [yes, what IS normal?] so why does it matter?), so I could see the discrepancy between what you think of sex and what the majority of people think sex is.

[Deliberator]

I have some questions for you. If sexual abuse turns you gay, why are there are so many straight survivors of sexual abuse? If you watched a bucketload of gay porn, would that convince you to be sexually attracted to your own sex?

I'm quite certain sexual abuse doesn't do the same thing to all people. That isn't an argument.

If I were actually a lesbian underneath who was funneled into being straight due to life circumstances then yes, watching gay porn would turn me gay.

All I'm saying is, perhaps it could happen. Are you going to claim this man was lying, or deluded? He sounded rather introspective when he was talking about his experiences.

My question for you is, do you think all instances of homosexuality are biologically based? How does that explain bisexuality?

[TheBlackKnight]

You shouldn't have to prove that you're gay, but you also don't know you wouldn't like vagina. I mean, hell, I don't KNOW if I'd like gay sex, but I won't be trying it.

New question - if you're so open to things, why not try sex with a girl?

You know, I think I was a little hasty there - you hear the same question from so many people with the same insinuation, you eventually just package the whole deal in your mind. I appologize.

But to answer your question, first off, I already like girls ;) I wouldn't want to try sex with a boy because I already know I wouldn't like it. The difference in the strength in the hands, for example; that's just a major put-off.

The mentality... that doesn't really answer my question. I'll rephrase: how can you rationalize being gay? Or is it emotional? I understand the mentality you posted above, but I don't see WHY.

Ah, I must've misunderstood. But now I don't understand what you're asking. Are you trying to ask why I'm gay?

I could see the discrepancy between what you think of sex and what the majority of people think sex is.

I think it's a little presumptive to assume the majority thinks the same way. But everyone does have their own definitions for what they consider sex.

---------- Post added 03-31-2010 at 02:22 PM ----------

I'm quite certain sexual abuse doesn't do the same thing to all people. That isn't an argument.

Fair enough.

If I were actually a lesbian underneath who was funneled into being straight due to life circumstances then yes, watching gay porn would turn me gay.

I think we might need a little clarification here - how, exactly, does one get "funneled into" a specific orientation?

All I'm saying is, perhaps it could happen. Are you going to claim this man was lying, or deluded? He sounded rather introspective when he was talking about his experiences.

No. I am going to claim he's repressing his natural orientation, though. My impression was he that he was trying to talk himself into it at the same time he tries to talk his audience into it; but on some level, he knows what the truth is.

My question for you is, do you think all instances of homosexuality are biologically based? How does that explain bisexuality?

I think it works on more or less the same basis as an MBTI type - biological disposition, then the nuturing aspect must have some role or other. I'm not going to claim to know what that is, though. All I know is that I'm INTJ, and I can't change that; same for being gay.

As for bisexuality, why should it work any differently? I would imagine the same would go for asexuals, too.

[Kmal]

You know, I think I was a little hasty there - you hear the same question from so many people with the same insinuation, you eventually just package the whole deal in your mind. I appologize.

But to answer your question, first off, I already like girls ;) I wouldn't want to try sex with a boy because I already know I wouldn't like it. The difference in the strength in the hands, for example; that's just a major put-off.

Ah, I must've misunderstood. But now I don't understand what you're asking. Are you trying to ask why I'm gay?

I think it's a little presumptive to assume the majority thinks the same way. But everyone does have their own definitions for what they consider sex.

Completely understandable. edit: oohhh, you're a girl?

Yes, I'm asking if there is a defining rationalization of why you're gay. Like "this is the way I was born, so I'll just accept it" or "vagina turns me on, thats it." A reason, I guess.

I agree, but I was basing it off the definition of "sex." To me, when 2 people get naked and start pleasuring each other, that's sex - regardless of the specifics.

edit: if you are a girl, all same questions, but reverse.

[firebee]

Completely understandable. Yet, now, I'm confused. You're gay, but you like girls?

It's entirely possible for a person to be homosexual and attracted to girls.

[Kmal]

It's entirely possible for a person to be homosexual and attracted to girls.
I didnt say it wasn't, but it's a little confusing. Hence, why I'm confused.

You'd think that if that we're the case, they'd label themselves as bisexual, or even straight. Gay people are usually... just that: gay. They like the same sex. Bisexuals like both....

I was going on the assumption that it was a dude talking, excuse the ignorance.

[nacht]

I didnt say it wasn't, but it's a little confusing. Hence, why I'm confused.

You'd think that if that we're the case, they'd label themselves as bisexual, or even straight. Gay people are usually... just that: gay. They like the same sex. Bisexuals like both....

*cough* lesbians *cough*

[mormeguil]

I think this is a little close-minded; I read a story once about a guy who was homosexual but felt that the reason for this was because he had been abused as a child. Upon his own initiative he eventually converted himself by watching heterosexual porn, which he claimed released his true heterosexuality. I know it's not politically correct to say so, but it seems as though some homosexuality can arise from both biological causes and from psychological causes. What do you think?

As I said, reasearch have proven that trying to change one's sexual behavior cause psychological distress. Maybe he is an exception to the rule, maybe he is still repressing himself. I honestly don't know in this particular case. Generally it's simply a bad idea.


For gay males - have you ever had sex with a woman to compare?

No and I don't need to. I could ask the same question to any heterosexual. "Have you tried with a man/woman just to be sure?" It's the same idea here. I am not attracted to woman. I can see them as beautifull in the same way a flower is beautifull. I can get pleasure and comfort from being close to another human being. I could even probably have sexe with the right sexual stimulation. But it would feel empty, whitout desire and that would make it un-pleasant.

What is the mentality that helps you say "yeah, being gay is ok"?
Well, not anything really. It just is ok. I just consider that so far in my life I have been attracted to men and I never saw any good reason to want anything else. Still can't see any possible reason for it not being ok so not really anything to rationalise here.

Being an INTJ, do you think being gay is inefficient? I mean penis + penis = ???? penis + vagina = sex

Actually, for gay men I would consider it more efficient since it gives you more possiblity. Both partners have a penis and a hole. This can make a greater variation of position. Also for penis+ penis = one hand to masturbate both it's an incredible sensation honestly.

Finally, why would I want my sexe life to be efficient ?! It's there to have fun, to hell with efficiency.:cheesy:

Also - when or how did you know you were gay?

At 14 I realise that I was sexually attracted to other boy and not to other girl. I knew this was called being gay. Thats pretty much it.


My question for you is, do you think all instances of homosexuality are biologically based? How does that explain bisexuality?

It seems most plausible to me that, as many human caracteristic, sexual orientation is a mix of genetics factor and environemental. Those environemental factor could be anywhere tought. In the mothers womb, early childhood or early adolescen, etc. We really have no idea.

Now i'm sad. We don't have a rainbow smiley:huh:

[Anhedonic Lake]

Why are transsexuals politically alligned to gays when they have more in common with intersexed people?

[larkin]

I'm quite certain sexual abuse doesn't do the same thing to all people. That isn't an argument.

If I were actually a lesbian underneath who was funneled into being straight due to life circumstances then yes, watching gay porn would turn me gay.

All I'm saying is, perhaps it could happen. Are you going to claim this man was lying, or deluded? He sounded rather introspective when he was talking about his experiences.

My question for you is, do you think all instances of homosexuality are biologically based? How does that explain bisexuality?

The bisexual orientation I think is biologically based. Self-definition as bisexual might be considered a choice. That is - I'm sure there are plenty of people who might meet the technical definition of bisexual but choose to live their life as either gay or straight, and that's of course their decision.

Stressful past events like abuse might affect someone's willingness to define a certain way.

Yes, I'm asking if there is a defining rationalization of why you're gay. Like "this is the way I was born, so I'll just accept it" or "vagina turns me on, thats it." A reason, I guess.

Sexual attraction to the same gender is the defining rationalization. I know it sounds simple. It actually is!

(Not to complicate things but: I would like to note that women don't tend to be as visually stimulated as men. So there may be some cases where women think to themselves "vagina turns me on" but I certainly don't think that's a prerequisite for sexual attraction. I would describe it more as - I could imagine myself having sex with that girl. That idea and that girl turns me on.)

[Thrasymachus]

As a homosexual myself, I'm unsure of whether or not I would define myself as being in the "gay community".


The "gay community" is just the colleciton of homosexuals, whether or not you enjoy the way it is displayed in news and media is separate than the individuals that are in it. You are part of the "gay community" by being gay, whether or not you attend pride parades or go to gay bars is a separate issue.

How do gays find partners? If you don't TELL everyone that you're gay, and you don't act in a stereotypically "gay" manner, how would you know if someone else wants to get in a relationship with you?

I dunno, I get vibes sometimes I follow the vibes.


For gay males - have you ever had sex with a woman to compare? What is the mentality that helps you say "yeah, being gay is ok"? Being an INTJ, do you think being gay is inefficient? I mean penis + penis = ???? penis + vagina = sex

1. Yup I have had sex with someone I did not find physically attractive. Had some parts I wasn't to thrilled about and some parts that I wished were there but were missing.

2. I dunno how to answer the second part.

Why are transsexuals politically alligned to gays when they have more in common with intersexed people?

Gays have better lobbying power than the intersexed.

[qrious]

This is an interesting question about the masculine/feminine binary and the gender vs. sex debate. Given that gender is more about identity and less about biology, I wonder how we can really talk about attraction. If I find a certain set of physical characteristics attractive regardless of a person's sex, can my sexual orientation truly be determined? If I'm sexually attracted to masculine anatomy and physiology but emotionally attracted to feminine sensibility and energy is my orientation definable? If my ideal sex partner is a woman with a penis or a man with breasts, am I gay or straight?

[FlakeyWafer]

I'm a gay guy, and I can assure you that my being gay has nothing to do with being attracted to masculinity/feminity or adopting a masculine/feminine mindset. Top-bottom has always been something that disgusted me.

Regardless of whether you are feminine or masuline men still have those great qualities...the firm grasp...the stubble...the thin hips...the wide shoulders...the security...the simplicity...the clarity/rationality of a man.

I just like guys. They're not fragile. :)

[Miryr]

One thing I've never gotten (though I'm very open and I do think that postgenderism will eventually happen) is transsexualism can somebody explain this to me?

[Anhedonic Lake]

One thing I've never gotten (though I'm very open and I do think that postgenderism will eventually happen) is transsexualism can somebody explain this to me?

Basically ones brain sex is primarily decided during foetal developement,we all start out as female which is why men have nipples,hormones produced by the Mother decided if the foetus will be born male or female. Sometimes anomalies occur resulting in intersexed people,those born with both male and female primary sex characteristics and people who claim gender dysphoria from as young as three or four,where the brain sex does not correspond to the biological sex,these people would be transsexuals.

[Miryr]

Basically ones brain sex is primarily decided during foetal developement,we all start out as female which is why men have nipples,hormones produced by the Mother decided if the foetus will be born male or female. Sometimes anomalies occur resulting in intersexed people,those born with both male and female primary sex characteristics and people who claim gender dysphoria from as young as three or four,where the brain sex does not correspond to the biological sex,these people would be transsexuals.

How common is this and what's the difference between a male and a female brain besides estrogen and testosterone?

[Anhedonic Lake]

How common is this and what's the difference between a male and a female brain besides estrogen and testosterone?

I don't know how common it is. Certainly in Asian societies,where it's more socially tolerated, people choose to "come out" and transition more. No surprise as many deities of Hinduism are androgenous ect. Surprisingly Islam is torelant of transsexuals,due to some verse in the Koran,and many Islamic states pay for sex changes.

Here's an academic article on the differences between the male and female brain.

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[TheBlackKnight]

Completely understandable. edit: oohhh, you're a girl?

Ah, sorry for the confusion - I say "gay" but I'm a girl. I don't like the word "lesbian" as much; it's purely aesthetic. Same reason I say "nerd" instead of "geek" :p

Yes, I'm asking if there is a defining rationalization of why you're gay. Like "this is the way I was born, so I'll just accept it" or "vagina turns me on, thats it." A reason, I guess.

Ok, I think I get what you're getting at. I am attracted to other women, and am not attracted to men. I see no problem with that, and thus I accept it.

I agree, but I was basing it off the definition of "sex." To me, when 2 people get naked and start pleasuring each other, that's sex - regardless of the specifics.

Fair enough :)

---------- Post added 04-01-2010 at 04:57 PM ----------

Now i'm sad. We don't have a rainbow smiley:huh:

We can always import one :laugh:

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---------- Post added 04-01-2010 at 04:58 PM ----------

Why are transsexuals politically alligned to gays when they have more in common with intersexed people?

Hmm. I think it's because most people know what "gay" means, but would need "intersexed" explained to them. It's more about visibility.

---------- Post added 04-01-2010 at 05:04 PM ----------

If I find a certain set of physical characteristics attractive regardless of a person's sex, can my sexual orientation truly be determined?

If you're attracted to potential partners regardless of sex, I'd call it "bisexual."

If I'm sexually attracted to masculine anatomy and physiology but emotionally attracted to feminine sensibility and energy is my orientation definable? If my ideal sex partner is a woman with a penis or a man with breasts, am I gay or straight?

You'd probably be looking at a transgendered partner... in which case the gay/straight labels would get into iffy territory, depending whether you consider them to be referring to physical sex or emotional gender.



And now I have my own question. For our LBGT folks, do you have a particular order you prefer to have the LBGT initials? Is there a reason for your preference? If you do, when do you include other letters aside from the main four?

[mormeguil]

Well personally I Like LGBT for no other reason that it's what I have heard so far. Personnally I prefer the term "Allosexuel" tha simply means "englobe every alternative sexuality".

[Still Standing]

Personnally I prefer the term "Allosexuel" tha simply means "englobe every alternative sexuality".

English-French translator here. "Allosexuel" is "Queer" in English. Although "the term is still considered by some to be offensive and derisive," it also describes "a sexual orientation and/or gender identity or gender expression that does not conform to heteronormative society." Fortunately for you, the term "allosexuel" does not have a negative connotation in French and you (and myself) live in a social environment that is quite accepting of anyone who isn't mainstream. I suspect that this is not the case for most people who participate in this forum.

[Episteme]

I have a question. How has being gay impacted you emotionally in regards to intolerance? Do you spend a lot of time thinking about it or do you pretty much disregard it?

The way I am, I am very angered by intolerance, especially after moving from a very diverse area to a heavily conservative Southern Baptist community (but don't get me wrong, not all conservative Baptists are like that). I know one openly gay man from here. He's genuinely a good person, kind to everyone. He had to move away just to be in the city where people are more 'tolerant'.

So I guess that's the second question, have you ever had to move, quit a job, or otherwise be displaced because emotionally it was too difficult to be around nasty people?

[TheBlackKnight]

I have a question. How has being gay impacted you emotionally in regards to intolerance? Do you spend a lot of time thinking about it or do you pretty much disregard it?

I think about it, sure. A lot of it I realise I have no control over, so I don't bother brooding. What I can control I spent a lot of time researching and discussing when I first realized I was gay. Now it's not necessary, since I have a pretty good handle on what I can do. I end up spending more time thinking about philosophy and such.

So I guess that's the second question, have you ever had to move, quit a job, or otherwise be displaced because emotionally it was too difficult to be around nasty people?

I had to leave college. Being stolen from and spit on is too much.

[Rachel45]

What do all of you think concerning the phenomenon of LAM (lesbian after marriage)? I know quite a few women who have come to terms with their potentially true sexual orientation. They have spent many, many years attempting to fit into heteronormative society, and then they wake up? I have been wrestling with my sexual orientation for a couple of years now, all I can tell you is coming out while still in a het marriage is ill-advised....Also, it feels like a combination of elation and someone opening up a can of whup-ass on your very being. Sounds dramatic, but coming out to yourself(let alone to your friends who wonder why you are still married), is the ultimate roller-coaster ride...

[TheBlackKnight]

What do all of you think concerning the phenomenon of LAM (lesbian after marriage)? I know quite a few women who have come to terms with their potentially true sexual orientation. They have spent many, many years attempting to fit into heteronormative society, and then they wake up? I have been wrestling with my sexual orientation for a couple of years now, all I can tell you is coming out while still in a het marriage is ill-advised....Also, it feels like a combination of elation and someone opening up a can of whup-ass on your very being. Sounds dramatic, but coming out to yourself(let alone to your friends who wonder why you are still married), is the ultimate roller-coaster ride...

My partner of 2 years went through this. It was really hard on her. She says she always knew, but just didn't want to accept it, or thought it was because of something that happened to her in the past that she felt that way.

I don't know if that's exactly what you wanted to ask, but there it is.

[LordCorbin]

Depictions of the 'homosexual community' as "excessively" promiscuous: fact or fiction?

If fiction: how far do you feel it strays from a true representation?
is this merely a product of an exploitive media? is there some other agenda in play?

if fact: is this a product of a young culture? youth? hormones? lack of social pressure to settle into long term exclusive partnerships? is this a trend and if so do you see it shifting in any particular direction?

I feel like Ive missed half a dozen angles on this but it just popped into my head.
I dont have any a priori notions on this topic but have heard it discussed. I also cant define excessive in this context because no one ever bothers to give any sort of indication in that regard, aside from the implication that it surpasses the promiscuity levels of the heterosexual community. And... I cant think of anything else. :)

[TheBlackKnight]

Depictions of the 'homosexual community' as "excessively" promiscuous: fact or fiction?

If fiction: how far do you feel it strays from a true representation?
is this merely a product of an exploitive media? is there some other agenda in play?

if fact: is this a product of a young culture? youth? hormones? lack of social pressure to settle into long term exclusive partnerships? is this a trend and if so do you see it shifting in any particular direction?

I think the thought process is that if we're more open to outside-of-the-norm sexual practices, we'd be more open to having multiple partners, too. Some people (not to say you specifically) also use this arguement to imply that homosexual relationships aren't equal to heterosexual relationships, because they can't possibly be as committed.

Polys (polygamists) are sorta-kinda part of our group, but it's a real contentious issue whether they even get included in the acronym. Aside from them, though, I'd say the promiscuity rates are about the same.

The media definitely has a role. For a lot of straight people, the only images they get of us are wild pride parades, the big "coming out" scene, and two girls kissing - as long as it's for a straight male's benefit. And, y'know, HBO isn't exactly helping in the promiscuity department.

I'd say the only agenda involved is one of misunderstanding and ignorance.

[Anhedonic Lake]

I have a differing opinion on this. Promiscurity exists whether people are straight or gay.
Usually,though not always,the man is the more promiscuous,due to hormones and Darwinian reasons. When you have men who are attracted to men there is likely to be more promiscurity than men who are attracted to women,not because the average gay male has lesser morals then the average straight person, but because the average straight man has less opportunities to be promiscuos,as women have lower sex drives on average ect.

I'm not saying all men are naturally promiscuous in general or gay men are all promicuous. Nor am I homophobic but what I said appears to make sense and may explain some of the stereo types people have.

[aoife]

This is an interesting question about the masculine/feminine binary and the gender vs. sex debate. Given that gender is more about identity and less about biology, I wonder how we can really talk about attraction. If I find a certain set of physical characteristics attractive regardless of a person's sex, can my sexual orientation truly be determined? If I'm sexually attracted to masculine anatomy and physiology but emotionally attracted to feminine sensibility and energy is my orientation definable? If my ideal sex partner is a woman with a penis or a man with breasts, am I gay or straight?

This is the problem, to define sexuality you have to define gender. Gender can't really be defined as far as I can see so the whole idea of gay/straight/bi becomes meaningless if the situation becomes in any way complicated.

[Episteme]

I end up spending more time thinking about philosophy and such.
Good, that's a much better thing to think about. :)

I had to leave college. Being stolen from and spit on is too much.
People are sick.

[Antares]

As homosexuals, what do you feel about the assertion that homosexuality is detrimental to evolution and that we should eliminate it?

(Not my views, but it has come across in debates, and I just wonder what actual homosexuals think)

[Still Standing]

Another "no stupid" question for the guys: Why do some of you dress in a way that makes it so obvious that you are gay, even when you are amongst gay friends and colleagues and don't have to use this as a signal of some sort? I've seen this in the "gay village" here but also in a gay choir that I had joined a few months ago. I'm talking about the tight leather pants and stuff like that. Beyond specific situations where you're trying to meet a sexual partner, wouldn't you prefer to blend in with the crowd, just like most heterosexuals do?

[Imperium]

I had to leave college. Being stolen from and spit on is too much.

-_- Situations like this actually get an emotional rise out of me. I wonder what would happen if our society was the other way around. Gay was the norm and straight was the statistical dog, what then?

[TheBlackKnight]

Appreciate the sympathy, guys.

As homosexuals, what do you feel about the assertion that homosexuality is detrimental to evolution and that we should eliminate it?

(Not my views, but it has come across in debates, and I just wonder what actual homosexuals think)

I'd respond with the "overpopulation control" point. If homosexuality is so detrimental, why does it occur in so many animal species? It doesn't make any sense that it would've survived this long if there weren't some naturalistic point to it.

[SShack]

Another "no stupid" question for the guys: Why do some of you dress in a way that makes it so obvious that you are gay, even when you are amongst gay friends and colleagues and don't have to use this as a signal of some sort? I've seen this in the "gay village" here but also in a gay choir that I had joined a few months ago. I'm talking about the tight leather pants and stuff like that. Beyond specific situations where you're trying to meet a sexual partner, wouldn't you prefer to blend in with the crowd, just like most heterosexuals do?

You mean like those skanky girls who were booty shorts and cleavage-baring T-shirts even when they go out grocery shopping? Or those "cougars" who can't seem to dress their age?

What you're asking is a personality question, not a sexuality question. Some people just don't want to blend in with the crowd, period.

[AnotherA]

we all start out as female which is why men have nipples,hormones produced by the Mother decided if the foetus will be born male or female.

I'm pretty sure it's the X or Y chromosome that has the most influence on male/female.

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The mother's hormones can have a little bit to do with it, but most of the time it doesn't make a difference.

[Mader]

Explain Lesbians with fake penises strapped on?

Some of the 'gay sex' (yes, I have been living in a cave) seems, well, painful. Is it the challenge?

I see some of the sex toys on late night tv and think 'you want me to put that where????'

[Still Standing]

Explain Lesbians with fake penises strapped on?

Bi-curious here. Been with girls but never tried that.

For me, the answer would be similar to: Why do guys prefer to masturbate inside a vagina rather than jerk off with their hand? Less tiring for the hand (than using a dildo, in the case of the woman), works out your whole body, etc.

[TheBlackKnight]

Explain Lesbians with fake penises strapped on?

Most lesbians have this thing called "penis-in-the-brain." We're happy being women, we don't want a sex change or anything, but it still feels better psychologically to have a stand-in penis to use on our partners.

[tooboku]

Your Mom is Gay and Your Dad is a Lesbian

As a disclaimer, this thread is probably going to be offensive. I suggest not reading further if you feel this may offend you.

A few weeks ago, we were covering the topic of homosexuality in anthropology and I don't know. I felt like a lot of my stupid and off tangent questions were not addressed. Seeing as we have a variety of insights I thought I might post some here.

My first question (found here (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)), went for a couple pages but I wasn't quite left with a satisfactory conclusion. Perhaps that is all one could ever hope for on this topic.

The irony of it all is that a few days after starting that thread, I ended up unknowingly professing my undying love to a lesbian. I can laugh at it now but it seems I definitely have an underdeveloped understanding of people with other orientations.

So, after reading around for a better definition, I still haven't found one. So far the best I have is this...

A person who is physically or romantically attracted to the gender that is associated with that person's sex. Sex pertains to the reproductive organs an individual is born with.

Maybe that isn't satisfactory for many of you and is possibly even offensive because of things like brain sex (Where are person's mind develops as one sex, while that person's gender and reproductive sex may or may not be of the other). My sister who is a nurse that works closely with the gay community in Toronto just laughs at me as I seem to be trying to put this all into absolute terms. I suppose I am but that's what I like instead of the several extended categories that have been created to at least let these people integrate better. This system is chaotic and I like order. Call me a closed minded fool if you want.

Anyway, with the best definition I could put together a whole lot of different scenarios came to mind.

First of which....

If your biological mother is a masculine lesbian and your biological father is a feminine gay, which one do you call Mom and which one do you call Dad?

Also, is this even possible?

[Synamon]

If your biological mother is a masculine lesbian and your biological father is a feminine gay, which one do you call Mom and which one do you call Dad?

Some people call their parents by their first name. OMG does that mean their parents are really strangers? :rolleyes:

Who cares. Seriously, it doesn't matter.

Lots of people have blended families with step-parents or half siblings or are raised by grandparents or other relatives or have been adopted but have their birth parent(s) in their lives. What you call the people who raise you is immaterial. Gender roles are social constructs and they don't fit quite a few segments of the population. Instead of trying to fit people into those boxes, it's time to throw out the boxes.

[Cisco Skywalker]

This is not offensive but I do understand why you describe your questions as stupid. Stupid and utterly naive.

The title/ name Mom is used to describe a female parent.

The title/ name Dad is used to describe a male parent.

What isn't clear about that?

[Valiyn]

Children call their parents whatever their parents tell them to call them. If we're talking about transsexual parents that transsition after the child is born and running around, then the child will continue to use the old title, go by the parent's name, call one mom and the other mother, so on an so forth. Maddy has been used before in atleasty one case. Dommy probably has not been :p The child will use what name they've been told to use unless they're old enough to be asked what they would prefer to use.

[tooboku]

Instead of trying to fit people into those boxes, it's time to throw out the boxes.

I know, I know. It just makes things so much harder to process. Why do you think we're all here in the INTJ forum? We've all put ourselves in a box so to say and we like it. It's very hard to escape. Our minds have been trained to make order out of chaos by putting things into boxes.

Humans are very complex and no one can really be put into any given box. In cases of trying to interact with people and understand them better, at least with a box, you have something to start with.

---------- Post added 04-11-2010 at 10:28 AM ----------

This is not offensive but I do understand why you describe your questions as stupid. Stupid and utterly naive.

The title/ name Mom is used to describe a female parent.

The title/ name Dad is used to describe a male parent.

What isn't clear about that?

Whether or not you're refering to gender or sex.

---------- Post added 04-11-2010 at 10:39 AM ----------

Maddy has been used before in atleasty one case. Dommy probably has not been :p

Adequate. (The rest of the post actually, this was just the funny part)


Next question...

Is it a realistic scenario for a really gay man (like 6 on the kinsey scale) to be attacted to a crossdressing straight female?

(Yes obsurd questions. Feel free to mock me at any time)

[mormeguil]

There realy is something you are not getting at this point. There is no right or wrong or ok and not ok in any of those. All these questions refers to some gray zone in sociological norms because they are not common enought for a norm to exist.


If your biological mother is a masculine lesbian and your biological father is a feminine gay, which one do you call Mom and which one do you call Dad?

You cal them what they ask you to call you because thats always how it works. Some people don't use there real name. Sometime you refuse a surname, etc. You get to choose how you are called even with your child (well with people that respects you that is)

Is it a realistic scenario for a really gay man (like 6 on the kinsey scale) to be attacted to a crossdressing straight female?

If he man is a 100% gay he will not be attracted to a female of any kind. Now a 100% gay is extremely rare so yes he may be attracted a bit. Everything is "realistic" in that sense because every form of attraction you can imagine exist.

[INTroJect]

I think this is a little close-minded; I read a story once about a guy who was homosexual but felt that the reason for this was because he had been abused as a child. Upon his own initiative he eventually converted himself by watching heterosexual porn, which he claimed released his true heterosexuality. I know it's not politically correct to say so, but it seems as though some homosexuality can arise from both biological causes and from psychological causes. What do you think?

I think this is quite comical. I watch straight porn all the time! Hasnt worked yet. Im still as gay as a 3 dollar bill, honey.

---------- Post added 04-11-2010 at 11:14 AM ----------

As homosexuals, what do you feel about the assertion that homosexuality is detrimental to evolution and that we should eliminate it?

(Not my views, but it has come across in debates, and I just wonder what actual homosexuals think)

I thought about that a couple of times but then pretty much everyone has a reason as to why they should be eliminated. Just for simplicity we can just go right back to the list of whatever would put someone into a Nazi concentration camp or Gas chamber. And make sure to add Gingers if they were not already on it.

---------- Post added 04-11-2010 at 11:26 AM ----------


If your biological mother is a masculine lesbian and your biological father is a feminine gay, which one do you call Mom and which one do you call Dad?

Also, is this even possible?

I once had the habit of calling other gays 'girl', I thought I was being cute but have offended a few. Even the fems. They may be fem but they still think of themselves as guys. This biological relationship of having a masculine lesbian mom and femınıne gay father is possible and I can probably come up with one or two that I have come across in my lıfetime. However, its usually a relationship where they were friends and the father helped her out with a requıred ingredıent.

The child would probably call teh mom mom and the dad dad unless it was out of play/sarcasm.

[Feral]

I have a question, probably best answered by someone bisexual, or someone who's sexuality was realized later in life -

In a heterosexual relationship, no matter how much we understand our mates I think there is always a separation. Man forgives woman for woman problems (like hormones or something), he doesn't actually understand these problems but he accepts that. Woman forgives man for man-type issues even though they may be issues that she's never had to deal with, and doesn't fully understand, just accepts.

So we can have good relationships as long as we understand that we can't always understand, and accept the other as they are... my question, what is the connection like when that separation isn't there? When the things you have in common aren't just that you maybe grew up in the same area and have the same interests, but that you can feel all of the things that they feel, and know what causes these feelings and all of that. Like girls having a really good girlfriend who they tell everything to, and that person is also their lover.

I don't know if I'm asking this question properly, so I apologize if it's hard to understand what I'm getting at.

[INTroJect]

Another "no stupid" question for the guys: Why do some of you dress in a way that makes it so obvious that you are gay, even when you are amongst gay friends and colleagues and don't have to use this as a signal of some sort? I've seen this in the "gay village" here but also in a gay choir that I had joined a few months ago. I'm talking about the tight leather pants and stuff like that. Beyond specific situations where you're trying to meet a sexual partner, wouldn't you prefer to blend in with the crowd, just like most heterosexuals do?


Because it is fun to do so and an expression of self. Why does a straight guy wear stupid straight clothes? A T-shirt that says 'I like boobs' or 'Save a tree... eat a beaver'? Seriously. If the gays have to suffer nausea seeing such offensive nonsense, those outside the alphabet soup should equally accept high-heels with matching buttless leather chaps.

[larkin]

So we can have good relationships as long as we understand that we can't always understand, and accept the other as they are... my question, what is the connection like when that separation isn't there? When the things you have in common aren't just that you maybe grew up in the same area and have the same interests, but that you can feel all of the things that they feel, and know what causes these feelings and all of that. Like girls having a really good girlfriend who they tell everything to, and that person is also their lover.

Well, I wouldn't want to make it all a grass is greener thing. There's still separation in many ways, just for different reasons. And sometimes I feel as alien to some women as I do to men. Like even though I technically might understand why certain choices were made, I certainly don't feel connected to those choices or the person that would make them.

But yeah, that said, it's nice. The connection with some women on that level is different, and nice. When it works, the whole physical process is just understood, and close to unspoken. I've gotten close to that with some guys I clicked with - I think a certain level of understanding can happen with anyone - but never quite the same.

(Of course, sometimes I value the differences more. Which is probably why I'm bi.)

[TheBlackKnight]

Your Mom is Gay and Your Dad is a Lesbian

Oh, don't jump down his throat, guys, that's what this thread is for.

My first question (found here (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)), went for a couple pages but I wasn't quite left with a satisfactory conclusion. Perhaps that is all one could ever hope for on this topic.

Purely for the sake of clarity I'm going to copy your question here: If a homosexual undergoes a transgender operation, is that person still a homosexual?


Well, was it a voluntary operation? In some middle eastern countries, for example, if you're caught being gay, you can choose the death penalty or a forced sex change, so that you are now more or less conforming to the social norm.

If you define sexuality by emotion (i.e. gender) rather than the physical (i.e. sex), then that person is still the same person, with the same feelings. If you define it the other way around, then they are now attracted to their "opposite" sex. Most people would go by the gender definition.

If it was a voluntary operation, then they were probably never homosexual to begin with (again by the gender definition), but of a different gender identity (i.e. transexual).

The irony of it all is that a few days after starting that thread, I ended up unknowingly professing my undying love to a lesbian. I can laugh at it now but it seems I definitely have an underdeveloped understanding of people with other orientations.

Need to work on your gaydar :p

A person who is physically or romantically attracted to the gender that is associated with that person's sex. Sex pertains to the reproductive organs an individual is born with.

The definitions I've usually seen used by the LBGT community go like this:

Gender - emotional identification with male/female/other
Sex - physical body, i.e. reproductive organs
homosexual - someone who is attracted to the same gender as themselves, regardless of physical sex

Understandably confusing, since the word "homosexual" means "same sex," and doesn't really reference gender at all.

If your biological mother is a masculine lesbian and your biological father is a feminine gay, which one do you call Mom and which one do you call Dad?

Also, is this even possible?

Possible, sure. Sperm donation isn't that hard to do.

I'd go more by who is raising the child as their child. A lesbian couple? A single gay man? Perhaps they're sharing the responsibility?

Whenever a gay or lesbian couple decides to have children the first thing that comes up is "ok, so what does the kid call us?" It's a really individual thing. I've seen some couples say "Mommy Sue" and "Mommy Dana," or one is "mom" and the other "ma," or just by their first names... There's not really a hard-and-fast rule here.

---------- Post added 04-12-2010 at 12:18 PM ----------

Is it a realistic scenario for a really gay man (like 6 on the kinsey scale) to be attacted to a crossdressing straight female?

I'm attracted to very feminine-looking men sometimes, so I suppose. But it's only the face I like, and not the body, so... I don't know if it really counts as the same thing. And just to complicate things, lesbians and gay men are often attracted to each other on the emotional level, and not the physical one.

---------- Post added 04-12-2010 at 12:29 PM ----------

So we can have good relationships as long as we understand that we can't always understand, and accept the other as they are... my question, what is the connection like when that separation isn't there?

That's what I love about being gay - that seperation isn't there, and there are no silly gender roles to contend with.

As mentioned, it doesn't work with everyone (for example, between an NT and an NF there might be a bit of head-scratching), but it feels like you can connect to the other person on a deeper level. There's no automatic dismal on the basis of your being a man or a woman; you know that if you work at it hard enough, you'll eventually be able to understand the other person, and the other person can understand you. It's a comforting thought. I feel like I work at the relationship harder because of that, and it almost always pays off in the end.

May I reverse the question - what does it feel like to have that seperation? I have a hard time understanding heterosexual relationships in that regard.

[Anhedonic Lake]

Well, was it a voluntary operation? In some middle eastern countries, for example, if you're caught being gay, you can choose the death penalty or a forced sex change, so that you are now more or less conforming to the social norm.

The reason for this is there's a quote in the Koran which has been interpreted as God supporting transsexual people. Some Islamic states treat transsexuals very well,free SRS, but for whatever reason,probably because they confuse sexual orientation with gender,assume gay people are just "bad" transsexuals,and an involuntary sex change is their solution.
Islamic countries such as these must be one of the few places on Earth where it's easier to be T.S. than gay.

[INTroJect]

Can someone please tell me which islamic countries we are talking about because these 'some islamic states' and 'some middle eastern countries' statements are giving a strange impression of the whole. Iran has some kind of sex change thing going on but forcing? I dunno. These all may share a similar religion but they are as equally diverse in their laws/customs/interpretations as other countries.

Uganda, a predominately christian country, puts their girly-guys (and soon to have a new law for the manly-gals) either in jail or in the cemetary. Would the mainstream christians of the 'one nation under God' would agree that there is much of a comparison to be made?

Also, heres a question for the thread: Im not sure of the history of transexualism or the content of the Koran but who was performing SRS back around 600 ad when Mohammed was getting his message from God? Maybe someone out there knows the answer to this because I cant find an easy one searching around - the GLB thing has been around forever but what about the T? The wikipedia on SRS says around the 1920's to 30's. However, I do vaguely remember some Roman emperor who had a boyfriend and had his penis chopped off but im not sure that would count as a sex change.

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[Valiyn]

Transsexuals in history:
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If the testes are cut off, the human body naturally becomes more feminine over time. While it won't grow the female equivalent of the testes, it is capable of becoming otherwise perfectly female on it's own over many years. Our medical practices are clearly much better and safer (cutting off any organ poses alot of risk, especially when blood is used to flowing to that region often).

[TheBlackKnight]

Can someone please tell me which islamic countries we are talking about because these 'some islamic states' and 'some middle eastern countries' statements are giving a strange impression of the whole. Iran has some kind of sex change thing going on but forcing? I dunno. These all may share a similar religion but they are as equally diverse in their laws/customs/interpretations as other countries.

Uganda, a predominately christian country, puts their girly-guys (and soon to have a new law for the manly-gals) either in jail or in the cemetary. Would the mainstream christians of the 'one nation under God' would agree that there is much of a comparison to be made?

You're right, I apologize.

I did a little surfing around and found a bunch of support groups and activist groups for LBGT muslims, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of readily-available information about the state of SRS in specific Islamic countries.

This (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) is where I originally heard about it, but it's a locked livejournal post, so you won't be able to see it. I'll copy it over here:

When trans* doesn't actually mean trans*

I found this story on MSN. I think this sounds like something to slap on the DVR.


Islam on the big screen (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) (Well, one is on the small screen, and they're only about Central Asian Islam.)

The article lists off three movies, one on HBO2 tonight--Afghan Star, Be Like Others, and The Stoning of Soraya M. The relevant one here is Be Like Others.
(excerpt)

Iranian-American director Tanaz Eshaghian's Be Like Others (which premieres on HBO2 tonight and deserves to be far more widely seen) is the most startling, if only because it deals with a subject rarely discussed in the West. Although homosexuality is punishable by death in Iran, sex-change operations are perfectly legal. The result? Many gay men and women have operations they don't want, as the only path they can see to peaceful lives.

The cameras follow two men in their early 20s, candidates for surgery. The heartbreakingly sad Ali-Askar says he can't hold a job as a man because his coworkers tease him for being feminine; he can't walk down the street dressed as a woman without being harassed or arrested. After the surgery, though, we see that he—now she—has been disowned by her family and works as a prostitute.

Anoosh, a young man living with his mother and siblings, hopes to become a woman so he can marry his boyfriend, who is embarrassed to be seen in public with another man. After the gender change, Anoosh feels more comfortable with her female identity, but her fiancé balks at marriage. (On a slightly brighter note, the couple has since married.)

Vida, who changed from male to female several years before, claims to hate gays. She has internalized the religious leaders' reasoning, which takes refuge in ancient laws that never anticipated modern medicine: Homosexuality is to be avoided at all costs, even if it means changing sex. As a Shiite cleric and legal expert explains on camera, transsexuals are created that way by nature and free to change, while "homosexuals are doing something unnatural and against religion." This is where the loopy logic of fundamentalism leads people like Vida: gay self-loathing or utter denial.

And these newly identified women are facing a whole new set of problems. As a female in a clinic's waiting room says to men considering surgery, "It isn't so great being a woman in this society. Why do you guys want to be women so badly?"


It's quite an interesting reality. An unfortunate one, but interesting nonetheless.


"Forced" may have been a little strong.

[TypeINTJ]

Another "no stupid" question for the guys: Why do some of you dress in a way that makes it so obvious that you are gay, even when you are amongst gay friends and colleagues and don't have to use this as a signal of some sort? I've seen this in the "gay village" here but also in a gay choir that I had joined a few months ago. I'm talking about the tight leather pants and stuff like that. Beyond specific situations where you're trying to meet a sexual partner, wouldn't you prefer to blend in with the crowd, just like most heterosexuals do?

someone already said self expression, they're right, regardless of being around my bi accepting friends or LBGT people, its fun just to be yourself, I enjoy having the freedom to dress feminine even though I dress like normal boys all the time simply because I can, and because its FUN, if you're up to date with the fashion industry ( read about, watch it, or have someone working in it ) you'd know that secretly menswear is hated by everybody in there because its so " straight " unless you're in europe, where menswear is evolving so fast, you'd have a hard time separating straight men from gay men because there attitudes about whats visually culturally straight vs gay vs masculine is changing faster !, clothing is a part of self expression regardless of gender or sexuality, gender & sexuality are separate aspects of a personality, & human beings are beautifully complex creatures ...

I have a question, probably best answered by someone bisexual, or someone who's sexuality was realized later in life -

In a heterosexual relationship, no matter how much we understand our mates I think there is always a separation. Man forgives woman for woman problems (like hormones or something), he doesn't actually understand these problems but he accepts that. Woman forgives man for man-type issues even though they may be issues that she's never had to deal with, and doesn't fully understand, just accepts.

So we can have good relationships as long as we understand that we can't always understand, and accept the other as they are... my question, what is the connection like when that separation isn't there? When the things you have in common aren't just that you maybe grew up in the same area and have the same interests, but that you can feel all of the things that they feel, and know what causes these feelings and all of that. Like girls having a really good girlfriend who they tell everything to, and that person is also their lover.

I don't know if I'm asking this question properly, so I apologize if it's hard to understand what I'm getting at.

I believe thats a misconception told to us growing up, that man & women are so different that you wouldn't possibly understand each other, regardless of the anatomical & brain differences, it the same stuff arranged differently, most people for example don't know that male & female genitalia is actually mirrored, meaning the same functions exists in both sexes but in different packages, women have a menstrual cycle every four weeks, men have cycles too ( we have hourly, daily and monthly ones !!!, search male hormonal cycles & Irritable male syndrome ), gosh ! if only boys & girls how much stuff they go through that is so similar :wideeyed:, the same goes for the brain ( especially the brain ), we have different arrangements that make ( for the majority ) men more logical and single minded, while women more emotional & multi tasking, but ofcourse that is turned upside down when we found the opposite, or even a blend, of these features when looked further into populations Men & Women are so much alike than they think, our differences are fun not disabling, I wish I could be in a women's body just for a day, although I cherish my manhood, thats how much of a feminist I am ! :lovestruck:

I have close friends of both genders and is emotionally open and intimate with all of them, I have found that boys & girls ( regardless of sexuality ) if brought up or influenced to be comfortable with their feelings can be so much fun, just because I am all hugs & kisses with my male & female friends doesn't mean I have to be sleeping with them ( which is another misconception, where emotions are only reserved for a partner ! ), for me one person ( of one gender or sexuality ) cannot provide everything to me as friend, so I don't expect my partners ( my ideal set up would be a boy & a girl :flirt: ) to be any different ...

once you shift you paradigm from Gender / Sexual / Cultural orientation to Individual orientation, you'd find that dealing with a complex multi faceted person ( whomever your ideal mix of gender identity, sexual orientation & personality type is ), you end up with a true relationship of two ( or more if thats your thing like me ;) ) individuals independent of each other having an interdependent/codependent relationship mix that is more realistically fulfilling for the parties involved on the long run, hope that answer isn't too much ...