On Happiness

[sriv]

Most people would say that their purpose in life is the pursuit of happiness. A definition of happiness is --- an emotion in which one experiences a range of feelings from contentment and satisfaction, to bliss and intense joy.

1) No doubt every one wants to be happy, but who out there bases every decision on happiness? From buying a house, who you hang out with, to the very actions you make.

2) What level of happiness do you wish to achieve? Generally, intense joy only comes with depression. Are you an extremist or a moderate? Do you want to experience the full spectrum or stay content and satisfactory in the middle? Is it wrong to show someone content the full spectrum? Is it wrong to force moderation upon a fully immersed person?

3) This all boils down to the last question. Is the human race obsessed with achieving happiness? Would you do ANYthing for it, even sacrafice another's happiness? Are we all this selfish or is it mutually accepted as a duty to achieve it? If anyone out there is an altruist, do you gain happiness from other's happiness or is it just the satisfaction of relieving your guilt?

Out of this I want to see why people desire happiness so much and if there is a correlation in how much INTJs in general want it compared to other types.

[raconteur213]

I am happiest discovering knowledge. Some knowledge is sad to discover, but it's honesty is freeing; thus, in the end: Happy.

[dandylion]

Are you speaking of hedonism?

[sriv]

Please try to answer all of my questions. This is a survey and a discussion.

Are you speaking of hedonism?

Not really. Hedonists strive for pleasure. Pleasure is seperate from happiness. Go with the definition I gave of happiness.

Whenever I look around I see people always in pursuit of happiness and it intrigues me. People take risks to acheive happiness and that intrigues me as well.

[umop_3pisdn]

Well, I tend to strive more for states of joy or gaiety than I do pleasure. I can preoccupy myself with pleasure seeking behavior, but that often seems to be when I am incredibly stressed and my shadow ESFP is coming out.

But I don't find unreasoned pleasure seeking behavior all that satisfying. I tend to aspire towards a greater happiness or suffering. Some sort of pursuit towards immortality or eternity, despite or via transcending the somewhat difficult nature of this life on Earth. Though I don't know by what means this is achieved,. I think the subjective nature of reality can allow us to find our own peace despite the difficult truths about life, and tranquility can potentially be found within ourselves and our connection to the universe.

Pleasure seeking and hedonism can be awesome, but it's too temperate of a realm to stay in for too long. It tends to lack a sense of meaning, and if you chase it too much it ultimately becomes cheapened from over exposure.

[sriv]

Sorry, the title of the thread is not clear.

I am not really talking about hedonism. I am talking about the pursuit of happiness. It is considered as one of the unalienable rights of man. Why? Why do people place such emphasis on happiness? This question and a whole lot of other questions in my first post.

[Nausved]

I used to think that it was happiness that drove me—that I pursued knowledge because it brought me pleasure.

But now I know that is not the case, and I don't think it's the case for most people. Most would want to know whether or not their significant other was cheating on them, for example, though that knowledge could destroy their happiness.

Happiness is great, but it takes a backseat to other priorities. And, anyway, most of the things people do to find happiness don't actually bring happiness. Emotion is relative; the brain is forever adjusting to achieve chemical equilibrium.

[sriv]

I used to think that it was happiness that drove me—that I pursued knowledge because it brought me pleasure.

But now I know that is not the case, and I don't think it's the case for most people. Most would want to know whether or not their significant other was cheating on them, for example, though that knowledge could destroy their happiness.

Happiness is great, but it takes a backseat to other priorities. And, anyway, most of the things people do to find happiness don't actually bring happiness. Emotion is relative; the brain is forever adjusting to achieve chemical equilibrium.

Interesting. This question is off topic...Do you think people pursue knowledge for the sake of disspelling ignorance or to find truth?

Do you think you could gain knowledge if you were not happy?

Imagine yourself in Dante's hell (because the term "hell" is so vague). There are no books or other sources of knowledge. I would not be able to function as I would like without a certain degree of happiness. I would need to be comfortable at the least for me to go about daily tasks. I am trying to say that some degree of happiness may be our greatest priority. Maybe not our unconcious priority, but our concious one for sure.

[umop_3pisdn]

Sorry, the title of the thread is not clear.

I am not really talking about hedonism. I am talking about the pursuit of happiness. It is considered as one of the unalienable rights of man. Why? Why do people place such emphasis on happiness? This question and a whole lot of other questions in my first post.

I aspire more for tranquility than I do happiness. Happiness is good, but it isn't everything. If I was to chose, I'd rather have a greater ability to take life's hurdles in stride, and to have a better grounding. If hedonistic drug has taught me anything, it's that the happy times have to end sometime. You can't be running on a continual "high" forever, whether that is natural or drug induced, I feel the same applies. I think it would be better to find a grounding in something "greater." Like perhaps the whole enlightenment thing of releasing one's self from attachments and aversions.

[sriv]

I aspire more for tranquility than I do happiness. Happiness is good, but it isn't everything. If I was to chose, I'd rather have a greater ability to take life's hurdles in stride, and to have a better grounding. If hedonistic drug has taught me anything, it's that the happy times have to end sometime. You can't be running on a continual "high" forever, whether that is natural or drug induced, I feel the same applies. I think it would be better to find a grounding in something "greater." Like perhaps the whole enlightenment thing of releasing one's self from attachments and aversions.

I feel the same way. It is much safer, less risky, more conservative to take the satifying, tranquil path through life instead of the hedonistic. Is this an INTJ thing or is this just a general conservative thing?

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I think of happiness as an emotional state like anger or sadness. Therefore, it is transient and not a generalized state of mind (in the majority of cases). I can feel happy at times, but I will not be happy. If I am not feeling many negative emotions for long periods of time, then I consider myself lucky and would probably describe this general state of mind as content. This is probably not the best word to use, but it sums up the general feeling without a lengthy explanation. It is basically the opposite of depression which would be experiencing many negative emotions over an extended period of time.

[dandylion]

I think I make most everyday decisions based on happiness, but I take a more indirect approach to it. I'm sure most others do as well. We all have our goals and dreams depending on our different values and morals, and we try to achieve them because it is what will allow us to be satisfied in the end.

I make decisions usually after weighing which option will be more productive, efficient, and beneficial to me using the knowledge I have already; at the end of the day I'm happy if I know I did something in my favor. I'm motivated by knowledge and money. That's what will bring me happiness. Having the power to do anything I want, to influence people and change lives is satisfying.

[Ace1337]

Why? Why do people place such emphasis on happiness?
What's so hard to understand about that? Do you want to be sad all the time? I think you should experience depression, then you wouldn't ask such stupid questions.
I'm currently experiencing a mild depression and all I want is to be happy, not the wild rollercoaster happiness that ends fast, but just the happiness that 90% of people feel, I would just like to stop feeling tired, aimless, pointless. Just feeling normal like you people do, so I could learn new things and enjoy my life again.

[sriv]

Hmm...using words like "satisfying", "enjoy", "content". These are all possible subcategories or degrees of happiness.

I think of happiness as an emotional state like anger or sadness. Therefore, it is transient and not a generalized state of mind (in the majority of cases). I can feel happy at times, but I will not be happy. If I am not feeling many negative emotions for long periods of time, then I consider myself lucky and would probably describe this general state of mind as content. This is probably not the best word to use, but it sums up the general feeling without a lengthy explanation. It is basically the opposite of depression which would be experiencing many negative emotions over an extended period of time.

I follow. I would consider contentment as a degree of happiness.

I think I make most everyday decisions based on happiness, but I take a more indirect approach to it. I'm sure most others do as well. We all have our goals and dreams depending on our different values and morals, and we try to achieve them because it is what will allow us to be satisfied in the end.

I make decisions usually after weighing which option will be more productive, efficient, and beneficial to me using the knowledge I have already; at the end of the day I'm happy if I know I did something in my favor. I'm motivated by knowledge and money. That's what will bring me happiness. Having the power to do anything I want, to influence people and change lives is satisfying.

So for you, knowledge and power lead to happiness. It only makes sense to do something in your favor.

What's so hard to understand about that? Do you want to be sad all the time? I think you should experience depression, then you wouldn't ask such stupid questions.
I'm currently experiencing a mild depression and all I want is to be happy, not the wild rollercoaster happiness that ends fast, but just the happiness that 90% of people feel, I would just like to stop feeling tired, aimless, pointless. Just feeling normal like you people do, so I could learn new things and enjoy my life again.

I am questioning happiness rigorously because my friend says if I repress sadness, I will not feel happiness. There is not much to be sad about but whenever I feel sad I repress it and it comes off as slightly tired instead of depressed.

[vkut79]

What's so hard to understand about that? Do you want to be sad all the time? I think you should experience depression, then you wouldn't ask such stupid questions.
I'm currently experiencing a mild depression and all I want is to be happy, not the wild rollercoaster happiness that ends fast, but just the happiness that 90% of people feel, I would just like to stop feeling tired, aimless, pointless. Just feeling normal like you people do, so I could learn new things and enjoy my life again.

I would have to agree. OP, unless you are talking about a specific type of happiness (e.g. pleasure), its kind of ridiculous to wonder why people are interested in achieving happiness. Look, by definition, happiness is the state that humans naturally strive towards. Therefore, it seems kind of pointless to say why do people strive for? In its definition, it is appropriately vague. You could specify it by referring to specific happiness-pursuit activities such as drinking, sex, games, etc. and ask why people want to engage in those activities? That's different than asking why people would want to pursue happiness. That's almost like asking why people want to live, which is absurd right? Happiness is a direction towards which people instinctively try to go. Its also different from person to person.





vkut79 added to this post, 7 minutes and 48 seconds later...

]I am questioning happiness rigorously because my friend says if I repress sadness, I will not feel happiness. There is not much to be sad about but whenever I feel sad I repress it and it comes off as slightly tired instead of depressed.

Since happiness and sadness are opposites, your repression of sadness moves you further in the direction of happiness. The negative of a negative makes a positive. Your friend is right... in the sense that you are less likely to feel the upswing of positive emotion that most people call happiness if you repress your downswing of sadness. I strongly suspect that over a long period of time, a person cannot have a significant amount more of happiness upswing rather than sadness downswing, or vice versa. Having this imbalance screws people big time. People with bipolar disorder becomes pretty disfunctional when high and low states of emotion persist longer than they should over a long time.

Repressing sadness means repressing the entire spectrum of the emotion, so it limits how much happiness you can feel. But you will feel less sad, as you show. Its a personal choice, and different people choose differently. Thrill seeking personalities prefer the big emotional swings. Non-thrill seeking personalities prefer stability and contentment. Pretty huge differences.

[sriv]

Since happiness and sadness are opposites, your repression of sadness moves you further in the direction of happiness. The negative of a negative makes a positive. Your friend is right... in the sense that you are less likely to feel the upswing of positive emotion that most people call happiness if you repress your downswing of sadness. I strongly suspect that over a long period of time, a person cannot have a significant amount more of happiness upswing rather than sadness downswing, or vice versa. Having this imbalance screws people big time. People with bipolar disorder becomes pretty disfunctional when high and low states of emotion persist longer than they should over a long time.

Repressing sadness means repressing the entire spectrum of the emotion, so it limits how much happiness you can feel. But you will feel less sad, as you show. Its a personal choice, and different people choose differently. Thrill seeking personalities prefer the big emotional swings. Non-thrill seeking personalities prefer stability and contentment. Pretty huge differences.

Do you think that this upswing of happiness is only in perspective? I tend to feel that because people who are used to feeling sadness feel more happiness than I would feel in the same scenario because of the difference in perspectives. I tend to feel they would feel a greater downswing when hit with sadness because they have felt greater happiness. Does this make me more resilient to sadness/depression or weaker to it because I do not feel it as often?

LOL, your definition of happiness kind of made a chunk of my question sound really pointless.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

If contentment is a degree of happiness, then we could also say that discontentment is a degree of unhappiness. I think that this confuses the meaning of the words. For me, a generally positive feeling equals contentment or satisfaction. This can come in any of a number of feelings, which may or may not include happiness. Perhaps I'm being fussy, but I would definately not describe what I'm feeling right now as happiness. I would describe it as contentment....a generally positive feeling about how my life is going right now.

So........if this is just semantics and you are asking if I persue a generally positive feeling about my life as a goal for my life, then the answer is yes. I do not persue a generally negative feeling about my life as a goal and I would purposefully avoid those things that would make me feel discontent for long periods of time.

[vkut79]

Do you think that this upswing of happiness is only in perspective? I tend to feel that because people who are used to feeling sadness feel more happiness than I would feel in the same scenario because of the difference in perspectives. I tend to feel they would feel a greater downswing when hit with sadness because they have felt greater happiness. Does this make me more resilient to sadness/depression or weaker to it because I do not feel it as often?

Yeah, that's how I see it. The roller coaster can be steep or steady, but it's average height doesn't change. Your experience of sadness would be milder than that of people who are coming off of an intense happiness-inducing experience. A concrete example of that is with drugs - you go through a high, and then as a consequence you go through a low: the second effect is caused by the downswing from the first effect. It has to do with how the brain works on a biochemical level with neuronal regulation.

LOL, your definition of happiness kind of made a chunk of my question sound really pointless.

I felt that I needed to define happiness in that way because otherwise its really tough to analyze it. As its commonly used, happiness is so vague, yet everyone feels that they know what they mean when they say it. However, when you try to really figure out what it means, all it is is the state of mind that people desire and seek to achieve through their actions. Happiness isn't something that can be seen directly in anyone but yourself, and when you see it in yourself you can't describe it other than in vague ways like "its what I want" or "it feels good". Also, referring to happiness-promoting activities doesn't directly indicate what happiness is, just what actions its associated with.

[umop_3pisdn]

What's so hard to understand about that? Do you want to be sad all the time? I think you should experience depression, then you wouldn't ask such stupid questions.
I'm currently experiencing a mild depression and all I want is to be happy, not the wild rollercoaster happiness that ends fast, but just the happiness that 90% of people feel, I would just like to stop feeling tired, aimless, pointless. Just feeling normal like you people do, so I could learn new things and enjoy my life again.

Well, yes. But depression is also often quite frustrating if it is somewhat meaningless, or offers you nothing in return. I think if I felt my suffering held significant meaning, I would pursue that, rather than mere happiness. I'm not saying such a "meaningful suffering" exists or is attainable by any standard means. And ultimately it would be entirely subjective, and is probably too idealistic to even be feasible. However I believe there are things of higher importance than happiness, in my personal view of my place in the world. Humans aren't really entitled to anything, by nature. Happiness strikes me more as a consolation to myself that life is worth living and is meaningful etc. based on the fulfillment of various personal needs. Obviously it's nice, but it's a warm glow that can't always be basked in. I feel the previous drug comparison I and another used is quite apt.

Though, holding my views is highly impractical. I'm just saying if I had the choice, I know which one I think would be of greater importance. I think one is more permanent or eternal.

[DeadSpace]

Most people would say that their purpose in life is the pursuit of happiness. A definition of happiness is --- an emotion in which one experiences a range of feelings from contentment and satisfaction, to bliss and intense joy.

1) No doubt every one wants to be happy, but who out there bases every decision on happiness? From buying a house, who you hang out with, to the very actions you make.

Some decisions, most are just practical.

2) What level of happiness do you wish to achieve? Generally, intense joy only comes with depression. Are you an extremist or a moderate? Do you want to experience the full spectrum or stay content and satisfactory in the middle? Is it wrong to show someone content the full spectrum? Is it wrong to force moderation upon a fully immersed person?

Moderate. Euphoria can be fun, but is always brief. Contentment, general sense of well being. Comfortable. And would not force moderation on someone...they'll reach that point themselves eventually, let them enjoy the buzz while it lasts.

3) This all boils down to the last question. Is the human race obsessed with achieving happiness? Would you do ANYthing for it, even sacrafice another's happiness? Are we all this selfish or is it mutually accepted as a duty to achieve it? If anyone out there is an altruist, do you gain happiness from other's happiness or is it just the satisfaction of relieving your guilt?

Some are obsessed. I would not sacrifice anyone, nor do i see it as an 'at all costs' type goal. Not selfish, never been considered that way. Altruism...don't think you can gain any happiness unless it's actually done from a pure motive. No satisfaction feeling you have to do something because of guilt.

[malefide]

1) I base my "important" (i.e. consequential) decisions on long-term goals--I chose my long-term goals by considering what I believe will make me happy. Something as large as buying a house--this is definitely based on whether it will make me happy. People that I willingly socialize with--definitely, again. I don't associate with people that don't/won't make me happier unless I deem it necessary (or somehow useful).

2) Quantifying happiness in distinct levels is extremely difficult. 80% of the time I'm in a fairly emotionally neutral state, so any level of happiness is pretty cool to me. Ideally, I'd of course like achieve whatever the highest level of happiness is. I didn't know intense joy came with depression. I've had a lot of depression in my life, but not a lot of intense joy. As for the extremist/moderate question, again, "extreme happiness" is an ideal. I don't really know if I'll achieve that, but it would be nice to. I would like to experience the full spectrum of emotion at least once before I die, but I have definitely had enough of depression and sadness. It is really not worth it. And, finally, I don't know why I would want to force moderation of emotion on a person unless their lack thereof was somehow destructive (i.e. causing harm/wars, etc.).

3) This all boils down to the last question. Is the human race obsessed with achieving happiness? What else would we be looking to achieve?

Would you do ANYthing for it, even sacrafice another's happiness? Because I am as subjective as the next human being, it would probably depend on who this other person was. A random stranger on the street--sure. I have that much self-interest. But my closest and dearest friend? No. I have that much selflessness.

[sriv]

Maybe the level of happiness that one strives to achieve is directly related to selfishness. If one maintains a constant level of happiness, they do not care or have the want to achieve higher levels, would they not be more selfless than people in it for the ups and downs consuming time always seeking the pinnacle?

[mkay]

An ENTP's perspective:

I think happiness has a lot to do with brain chemistry -- luck of the draw, sometimes helped by meds or therapy. For instance, some wretched peasant in India can be happy as long as his basic needs are met, while some much more privileged person in the West can't manage to be happy.

I also see a distinction between inner-driven happiness vs. outer-driven happiness. For simplification, take a spiritual person who can be happy vs. a person who must own more, advance more to prove his worth. Or people who need others' approval to be happy vs. people who are confident and content in their own measure of themselves.

Personally, I'm almost always in a good mood. Shit happens, but I handle it. There's the idea of resilience or hardiness -- that some people cope better even under crappy situations. For example, some study found that after about six months of becoming quadriplegic or such, people will revert to their original happiness (or unhappiness) levels. So if you were a happy bastard before, you're now a happy bastard in a wheelchair. ... Along those lines, I've been reading a book I stumbled across, "Resilience at Work." It teaches coping techniques for those who aren't resilient and gives examples of how people can make themselves more effective (happy) even as peers are unhappy and self-destructive under the exact same circumstances.

[Phaedrus]

1) No doubt every one wants to be happy, but who out there bases every decision on happiness? From buying a house, who you hang out with, to the very actions you make.

My favorite philosopher once wrote, "If we possess our why of life we can put up with almost any how. Man does not strive after happiness; only the Englishman does that." He was taking a cheap shot at utilitarianism, but the point still stands as is, I think. I know I personally make plenty of decisions that don't make me happier at all. I've been known to make decisions that cause me downright misery for extended periods of time. If you have some purpose, suffering doesn't seem as important. Even if achieving that purpose doesn't bring eventual happiness.

2) What level of happiness do you wish to achieve? Generally, intense joy only comes with depression. Are you an extremist or a moderate? Do you want to experience the full spectrum or stay content and satisfactory in the middle? Is it wrong to show someone content the full spectrum? Is it wrong to force moderation upon a fully immersed person?

I'm personally just incredibly amused and interested in all these different emotions that I'm capable of feeling. Being happy is an interesting sensation. Being sad or hurt is another interesting sensation. I suppose one could say that I enjoy all emotions, but only if I take a step back and actually realize that I'm feeling something. Just knowing that I'm alive and that I can feel is incredible. Intense emotions are even more interesting, because they're so overwhelmingly powerful. Understanding the causality is also amusing.

3) This all boils down to the last question. Is the human race obsessed with achieving happiness? Would you do ANYthing for it, even sacrafice another's happiness? Are we all this selfish or is it mutually accepted as a duty to achieve it? If anyone out there is an altruist, do you gain happiness from other's happiness or is it just the satisfaction of relieving your guilt?

I wouldn't expect someone else to suffer for my happiness. But then I wouldn't expect anyone else to care about my happiness, my sadness, my anger, my boredom, my pain, or any other thing I could possibly feel. I have no way of feeling another person's happiness or sadness or anything else. How could I concern myself with it? If I do something that makes me think I've made someone else happy, that produces a feeling within me. If I do something that make me think I've hurt someone else, that produces another feeling. Both are interesting, but they're my feelings that I'm concerned with, not someone else's. Call that selfish if you will, but I have no certainty about anyone else's capacity for happiness, and no real reason to be interested.

[sriv]

An ENTP's perspective:

I think happiness has a lot to do with brain chemistry -- luck of the draw, sometimes helped by meds or therapy. For instance, some wretched peasant in India can be happy as long as his basic needs are met, while some much more privileged person in the West can't manage to be happy.

I also see a distinction between inner-driven happiness vs. outer-driven happiness. For simplification, take a spiritual person who can be happy vs. a person who must own more, advance more to prove his worth. Or people who need others' approval to be happy vs. people who are confident and content in their own measure of themselves.

Personally, I'm almost always in a good mood. Shit happens, but I handle it. There's the idea of resilience or hardiness -- that some people cope better even under crappy situations. For example, some study found that after about six months of becoming quadriplegic or such, people will revert to their original happiness (or unhappiness) levels. So if you were a happy bastard before, you're now a happy bastard in a wheelchair. ... Along those lines, I've been reading a book I stumbled across, "Resilience at Work." It teaches coping techniques for those who aren't resilient and gives examples of how people can make themselves more effective (happy) even as peers are unhappy and self-destructive under the exact same circumstances.

Introverted and extroverted happiness makes a lot of sense to me as well as a resilience factor. Do you think that resilience hinders a chance of leaving a steady level so that it is harder to get you elated or depressed?

My favorite philosopher once wrote, "If we possess our why of life we can put up with almost any how. Man does not strive after happiness; only the Englishman does that." He was taking a cheap shot at utilitarianism, but the point still stands as is, I think. I know I personally make plenty of decisions that don't make me happier at all. I've been known to make decisions that cause me downright misery for extended periods of time. If you have some purpose, suffering doesn't seem as important. Even if achieving that purpose doesn't bring eventual happiness.

I'm personally just incredibly amused and interested in all these different emotions that I'm capable of feeling. Being happy is an interesting sensation. Being sad or hurt is another interesting sensation. I suppose one could say that I enjoy all emotions, but only if I take a step back and actually realize that I'm feeling something. Just knowing that I'm alive and that I can feel is incredible. Intense emotions are even more interesting, because they're so overwhelmingly powerful. Understanding the causality is also amusing.

I wouldn't expect someone else to suffer for my happiness. But then I wouldn't expect anyone else to care about my happiness, my sadness, my anger, my boredom, my pain, or any other thing I could possibly feel. I have no way of feeling another person's happiness or sadness or anything else. How could I concern myself with it? If I do something that makes me think I've made someone else happy, that produces a feeling within me. If I do something that make me think I've hurt someone else, that produces another feeling. Both are interesting, but they're my feelings that I'm concerned with, not someone else's. Call that selfish if you will, but I have no certainty about anyone else's capacity for happiness, and no real reason to be interested.

I know lots of circumstances in which I have been offended by someone who was in an unhappy mood. That is why I try to keep a happy mood all the time so I do not unfairly offend or disregard someone.

It is interesting that you find some unpleasent emotions interesting. When you use them, are they completely under your control or do you let them do what they want? When you do, are interested in what actions you take from them or just the power the emotion brings to you?
Sorry about this infinite series of questions but I am a very curious person.

[Danneh]

Happiness is figurative.

We will be no more happy tomorrow if we win 10,000 dollars than if we won 1,000. It's a state of mind unfortunately, so it's hard to understand what some people are trying to achieve, but I do disagree.

Not everyone tries to find happiness.

I have a friend, who tries to find unhappiness, though I wouldn't really consider her a friend to be honest. Everything she does, everything decision she makes consciously, makes her unhappy, yet she does nothing to stop it.

She likes being unhappy. It gives her a reason to self pity.

I'm not a generally happy person, but neither am I an unhappy one, simply not attached. More often than not, I find that emotions weigh me down, no matter what they are.

[sriv]

I do not know if vkut's definition, happiness is the state that humans naturally strive towards, really describes happiness well enough considering the responses I have been getting.

I also have a friend that looks like he enjoys painting morbid scenes of despair about his work to get a sympathetic reaction from others. He even continues doing work even though he gets underpaid and maltreated so he can recieve these reactions boosting his self-pity. The decision that would lead to overall happiness would be to quit his job and find a better one, but he does not.

[Moriarty]

My idea of happiness has alot to do with my idea of success. Happiness is the successful implementation of my ideas. I enjoy seeing my ideas mature into systems, procedures and policies that actually work.

[mkay]

Do you think that resilience hinders a chance of leaving a steady level so that it is harder to get you elated or depressed?

I think many things are intertwined with resilience -- brain chemistry, experience, intelligence (the ability to think things through, not necessarily IQ). So there'd be many variations of resilient behavior and levels of happiness or unhappiness. I think a yes or no to your question would have no real use for any individual.

What do you think? Are you interested theoretically or looking for tools to apply to your life? ... I lean heavily toward learning for actual use, so that shapes my thinking. You might be coming from a different viewpoint, which I would like to hear more about.

Personally, I'm pretty steady. If I'm unhappy, I can almost always trace the cause. Then I try to do something about the cause. If it's something I can't change, I try to learn from it. Those approaches bring me back to my baseline. I have happy to be alive moments of joy, but I don't vary much on the whole.

[sriv]

I think many things are intertwined with resilience -- brain chemistry, experience, intelligence (the ability to think things through, not necessarily IQ). So there'd be many variations of resilient behavior and levels of happiness or unhappiness. I think a yes or no to your question would have no real use for any individual.

What do you think? Are you interested theoretically or looking for tools to apply to your life? ... I lean heavily toward learning for actual use, so that shapes my thinking. You might be coming from a different viewpoint, which I would like to hear more about.

Personally, I'm pretty steady. If I'm unhappy, I can almost always trace the cause. Then I try to do something about the cause. If it's something I can't change, I try to learn from it. Those approaches bring me back to my baseline. I have happy to be alive moments of joy, but I don't vary much on the whole.

I am interested theoretically and to apply it to real life. I feel curious about my relatively steady state of happiness and through contemplation have discovered that I am very resilient and that if I have a lot of fun, the happiness comes to me gradually instead of all at once. Ex: I enjoy a rollercoaster more the second time, third time it might get boring.

My friend says that if I do not pursue happiness ferociously I will never experience it to its fullest. He is an ENFP so I expect his opinion to be colored with passion and feeling. Now I realize that I do not care to experience it to the fullest and from observing him, he experiences happiness and depression with jerks up and down which I would feel uncomfortable with. We had a big argument about this and why I should live life for pleasure instead of for success. Now I realize that success would make me comfortable and satisfied, that is all that I really desire. My friend says it is not worth it to sacrafice time working for success that could be better spent on pleasureable activities that I would consider a waste of my time.

I want to know other perspectives on this and if it is a matter of opinion or if it is healthier to follow one way or the other. I am leaning towards it being healthier to remain steady.

My friends say that wanting to become a doctor is blind obediance and conforming to Indian familial traditions. I just want to have a job that provides me a comfortable, consistent supply of money and live a middle-class life saving up money for retirement. I consider my intelligence and work ethic capable of reaching and maintaining the standard of a doctor, so why should I not become one?

I know it is ultimately my choice, but people whose opinion I have respect for think differently. This is the question...Should success and financial safety be sacraficed for happiness? I am wondering if this is a personal preference decision or if one side has more pros than the other.

[mkay]

Happiness is individual. Oversimplification: You might like chocolate; your friend might like vanilla. Neither is better, except for the individual experiencing it. Basically, never let others (friends, family, society or otherwise) define happiness for you, because chances are they'll do it incorrectly.

It's also pointless to rebel for no reason. For instance, maybe your family's desire for you to be a doctor simply meshes with your preference for being a doctor.

About whether success and financial safety should be sacrificed for happiness: Some people's definition of happiness is success and financial safety. ... Personally, I pursue what makes me happy, whatever that is. I'm not big on sacrifices, and I don't believe in an afterlife, so I try to make my time count. Careerwise, I could not imagine myself spending X number of years doing a job I did not like. If that were the case, I'd rather be poor.

People's priorities also can change over time. So what makes you happy now might not in 20 years, but I think you make the best decision you can in the present with all the info you have and then you do your best. And if you're resilient, you can adapt as your priorities shift.

In general, I think people who do what they love find their own kind of happiness. ... In my case, I pursued journalism from an early age even though I knew it was a low-paying industry. I never regretted it. I did what I loved and eventually ended up making six figures. Now my interests have shifted and I'm going to start a new career, taking a huge pay cut to do it, at least for the first few years. But my priority is learning, not money. ... That said, I've also been smart with money. My lifelong priority is freedom of choice, so I make all my decisions with that in mind, such as shunning debt. ... So from that perspective, I would suggest that you figure out your lifelong priority. If it turns out it's financial security, being a doctor is obviously not the only way to pursue that.

[sriv]

Happiness is individual. Oversimplification: You might like chocolate; your friend might like vanilla. Neither is better, except for the individual experiencing it. Basically, never let others (friends, family, society or otherwise) define happiness for you, because chances are they'll do it incorrectly.

It's also pointless to rebel for no reason. For instance, maybe your family's desire for you to be a doctor simply meshes with your preference for being a doctor.

About whether success and financial safety should be sacrificed for happiness: Some people's definition of happiness is success and financial safety. ... Personally, I pursue what makes me happy, whatever that is. I'm not big on sacrifices, and I don't believe in an afterlife, so I try to make my time count. Careerwise, I could not imagine myself spending X number of years doing a job I did not like. If that were the case, I'd rather be poor.

People's priorities also can change over time. So what makes you happy now might not in 20 years, but I think you make the best decision you can in the present with all the info you have and then you do your best. And if you're resilient, you can adapt as your priorities shift.

In general, I think people who do what they love find their own kind of happiness. ... In my case, I pursued journalism from an early age even though I knew it was a low-paying industry. I never regretted it. I did what I loved and eventually ended up making six figures. Now my interests have shifted and I'm going to start a new career, taking a huge pay cut to do it, at least for the first few years. But my priority is learning, not money. ... That said, I've also been smart with money. My lifelong priority is freedom of choice, so I make all my decisions with that in mind, such as shunning debt. ... So from that perspective, I would suggest that you figure out your lifelong priority. If it turns out it's financial security, being a doctor is obviously not the only way to pursue that.

My lifelong priority is to retire with a secure amount of money so that I can do what I want later. My ENFP friend does not seem to understand that I can put up with a stagnant lifestyle for now so I can enjoy later on. I may not be able to go on rollercoasters or skydiving but I will be able to do things I want to do in my life.

Now off the topic of me, what about you guys?

[SmartOne]

1. I base my decisions on the practical side. Not on which would make me happy (I have trouble recognizing happiness)

2. A mid to low level would be nice as long as I knew I was happy.
If you had the persons concerned consent then no it would not be wrong to show them the spectrum, assuming that the person was in a fit state to fully understand the possible ramifications. However considering that we all experience "things" in our own way it may not be possible to do so anyway. This is one of the factors that make an individual.

3. No, I would not do anything to achieve happiness especially if it was at the expense of another. As for obsession in obtaining, sadly no. Far to many of us are obsessed with just finding the base things in life, be it food, water, shoes for the kids or just trying to scrape those few dollars together to pay the rent. Happiness takes a back seat in the cold light of day. The pursuit of happiness is a luxury for far to few of us.





SmartOne added to this post, 45 minutes and 34 seconds later...

sriv was simply asking a question. I am sure that there was no intent to offend or belittle anyone.
Depression is a terrible thing and I would not wish that upon anybody. No one could fully understand what a person feels like with depression. The days when it is hard to get out of bed or the lack of appetite, energy and the desire to be alone.
The forum can be used to gain some understanding about ourselves and others through questions and answers, who knows it may do some good if we are lucky.
Good luck with your recovery and I hope it is a speedy one.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I think of happiness as a fleeting emotion rather than a constant state that can be attained. Perhaps it's just semantics, but my personal goal is to achieve a state of mind where I can honestly say that the predominant feeling in my life is one of satisfaction.

[Seppuku Savant]

I think of happiness as a fleeting emotion rather than a constant state that can be attained.

Agreed. I experience genuine happiness very rarely. It's not important for me to achieve and nor would I know how to go about it in the first place. I'm more interested in being comfortable. Decent job and lifestyle. Low drama and problems.

[Saint]

I'm not sure I understand the concept and I'm not sure it exists as it has been described to me, or why people seem to madly pursue the concept and beat themselves up over it.

Can't we just be? I'm rather pleased with simply existing.


Edit: I suppose I feel the same as Seppuku. I try to attain a kind of peace/comfort, not some happiness concept.

Let me posit two question:
If I garden or make origami because I enjoy the peace, comfort, calm, etc... of it, does that bring me happiness? Is that happy?

If I do really well at an online video game that has complicated competition in which I cleverly outsmart human enemies in real time (and I enjoy this*), does that bring happiness? Is that happy? And sometimes I feel bad, because I'm making someone else somewhere in the world lose at a game that they want to win at.

I want to do these two types of things quite a bit. I suppose I have a great "motivation" to do them. Does that mean they're what makes me happy?


*but it also drives me kind of insane, but this isn't related to happiness

[Seppuku Savant]

Can't we just be? I'm rather pleased with simply existing.

Ah, this is nice indeed. It's possibly closer to what I originally wanted to convey.





Seppuku Savant added to this post, 8 minutes and 16 seconds later...

Let me posit two question:
If I garden or make origami because I enjoy the peace, comfort, calm, etc... of it, does that bring me happiness? Is that happy?

If I do really well at an online video game that has complicated competition in which I cleverly outsmart human enemies in real time (and I enjoy this*), does that bring happiness? Is that happy? And sometimes I feel bad, because I'm making someone else somewhere in the world lose at a game that they want to win at.

I want to do these two types of things quite a bit. I suppose I have a great "motivation" to do them. Does that mean they're what makes me happy?

I sincerely wonder what "happiness" really is, as well. People speak of it, as if they know it intimately. There have been brief pockets of life experience that have brought me positive feeling, but I couldn't tell you if it was "happiness".

[sriv]

I sincerely wonder what "happiness" really is, as well. People speak of it, as if they know it intimately.
Euphoria?

[nuth]

Unconsciously our mind wants to keep us alive(much like our concious mind) which triggers it to give us negative emotions to keep us from killing ourself. When our mind doesn't consider us to be in danger of killing ourself, it will make us seek out satisfaction in one way or another which will make us happy.

Even that girl that was talked about some posts ago that makes choices that makes her unhappy seek happiness through self-pity. She would probably fit in the OP post where she seeks out extreme happiness which comes with the baggage of depression.

I think that our quest for happiness pretty much rule our lives. For instance, we might not always do what's best for us, to make someone else happy, but I think that will satisfy our urge to make others happy. Not everybody has this urge and are less likely to make any sacrifice.

As for myself, I'd probably fit somewhat into the same category as that girl. I agree that it's idiotic, but I'll say for my defence that I think I've endured a lot of crap through my life, which has put me in bad state of mind that is hard to get out of because getting out might involve getting even more hurt

I'd also consider myself as one of them that will try to satisfy others as well as myself as this gives me the most satisfaction. I might even be considered a altruist to be honest.

[Monte314]

I think the thing that makes me happy is the idea that what I'm doing matters, makes a difference to people, helps someone. I think about being on my deathbed, and looking back over my life... what will capture my attention then? That's what I want to be working on now.

[Saint]

Monte may be on to something, in that maybe we (me and he) could say "Happiness is when I create meaning for myself or someone else." In the most general sense, maybe that's the most pleasing thing to do.

[pinkroger]

I would consider myself an extremist, just because I tend to enjoy the throws of depression, thus depression makes me happy. And no, I have no problem sacrificing others' happiness for my own.

[tenspot]

Do I seek happiness?

Being able to define what happiness is to me has come after many years of self reflection. Happiness is defined differently to everyone as demonstated in the replies to this post. I have discovered like many other INTJ's, that my happiness is dependent on me. I spent many years trying to make other people happy or become more acceptable in their eyes only to make myself miserable. I ended up all alone and could do nothing else but reflect. I realized that this is my life, my only life and I could run circles trying to please everyone or I could expend the same energy pleasing myself. Well I don't think I have to say what I have chosen. Being myself and loving myself first has brought me all the happiness I could have ever wanted. In doing so, I am surrounded by like-minded individuals and engage myself in activities I have an interest in.

I am not looking to gain a certain level of happiness. I can honestly say that since I have adopted the "is this what I want to do, will I be satisfied with the results" principle, it has been pretty smooth sailing. I have felt intense joy almost daily for about 5 years now. Am I happy? By my definition, YES. I think you should respect a person's right to live a low to moderate life or as intensely as they want, if they choose to do so. What do you care if it is not directly affecting you?

Yes, most humans are obsessed with achieving what is socially contrived as happiness. And yes, most humans are selfish and self-obsessed. We live in very narcissistic times. This is the ME, ME,ME generation or havent you noticed?

I do gain a certain amount of happiness from making those closest to me happy, but not if the result is going to cause me unhappiness. I am direct, honest and giving and that seems to be enough for the people around me.

[127001]

I'm not yet sure what I'm looking for in life. Happiness isn't that important to me though. If I really wanted it, I would be it. Seeking it from without is a mistake.

[ScurvyRose]

Persuit of happyness is relative and temporary.

When I was about 2 I was happy when I got bubbles and my favorite cereal.

Today I would like a pay raise and a hot date.

Once I get those, I will need something else to make me happy.

Persuit of happyness is to continually evolve and grow in a chosen direction from your last point. It keeps you moving, and is a very individual motivator.

[Saint]

Scurvy, you reminded me of something Mattiew Ricard said in this video. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) That it seems like happiness "saturates."

[ScurvyRose]

Very interesting. Is there a transcript of that speech? I had a hard time turning up the vollume.

[Saint]

I'm afraid not. :/

[Linwenilid]

I have to say I strive for motivation rather than happiness. I think happiness comes naturally after you've finished whatever it is you were trying to do, not always as a loud and joyful sensation. Satisfaction is one aspect of it, so is tranquility, fulfillment, etc. I think all of them make varying degrees of happiness towards which we all walk to.

The reason why I strive for motivation is that I suffer from depression, so, at times, I'm feeling down without a reason (like someone already said, bad luck with the brain chemicals), and that's pretty frustrating because you can't really fix it by doing anything; you just have to wait for it to go away. I always laugh when people say they enjoy sadness: they don't seem to know what it really is; I've been through a shitload of ugly stuff through my life, and believe me, sadness, fear, anger, etc. were never enjoyable emotions.

1) No doubt every one wants to be happy, but who out there bases every decision on happiness?

I think everyone does, but not as directly as that; I, for example, think that practicality is a better motivator for decision-making, but that's because, in the end, it will yield more satisfactory results than choosing something because of the present, fleeting thrill.

2) What level of happiness do you wish to achieve? Generally, intense joy only comes with depression.

I don't think so. When you're depressed, you are more grateful for your happy days than a regular, stable person, so it might seem you're happier, but basically, it should be the same amount of joy, only mixed with relief and gratefulness.

Are you an extremist or a moderate? Do you want to experience the full spectrum or stay content and satisfactory in the middle? Is it wrong to show someone content the full spectrum? Is it wrong to force moderation upon a fully immersed person?

Moderate; most of the spectrum (nothing showy); probably not wrong, but sometimes, inappropriate; probably if they're embarking into something inappropriate.

3) This all boils down to the last question. Is the human race obsessed with achieving happiness? Would you do ANYthing for it, even sacrafice another's happiness? Are we all this selfish or is it mutually accepted as a duty to achieve it? If anyone out there is an altruist, do you gain happiness from other's happiness or is it just the satisfaction of relieving your guilt?

I think the human race is more obsessed with comfort and pleasure. From TV remotes to every technologically advanced gadget out there, I think human race wants to be pleased in the shortest time possible with the least effort invested, thinking that this is what brings happiness, when in fact, investing a good amount of effort in something that's not easy to achieve is far more satisfactory in the end. I wouldn't sacrifice anothe person's happiness, at least not knowingly, but, like we all do at times, I'd probaby hinder someone's attempt at it if I thought they were going to get hurt (can't help it, I've four younger siblings). I'm *so* not an altruist; I think it comes with being a T; F types seem to be more self-sacrificing.


There is not much to be sad about but whenever I feel sad I repress it and it comes off as slightly tired instead of depressed.

Be grateful. Not for repressing sadness, but for function perfectly under said emotion. Ask any woman in her reproductive years if we wouldn't wish we functioned as perfectly as men when we're under strong emotions.

What's so hard to understand about that? Do you want to be sad all the time? I think you should experience depression, then you wouldn't ask such stupid questions.
I'm currently experiencing a mild depression and all I want is to be happy, not the wild rollercoaster happiness that ends fast, but just the happiness that 90% of people feel, I would just like to stop feeling tired, aimless, pointless. Just feeling normal like you people do, so I could learn new things and enjoy my life again.

While I probably wouldn't have phrased it like this, I basically agree.

My friend says that if I do not pursue happiness ferociously I will never experience it to its fullest. He is an ENFP so I expect his opinion to be colored with passion and feeling.

Sounds like my husband, who's also an ENFP. I've told him that we don't have to express ourselves in the same way, since we're so different, and that I enjoy things in a quiet way, while he's very loud and bouncy about what excites him. He tends to think I'm not happy because I don't shout in glee like he does.