The 4th Amendment and your Computer data

[Dodeca]

Should/does the 4th Amendment protect you from the government downloading files off your laptop/cell phone. I have herd that at airports they can do that legally without probable cause.

[Causa Mortis]

Should/does the 4th Amendment protect you from the government downloading files off your laptop/cell phone. I have herd that at airports they can do that legally without probable cause.

The government is in most torrents as well - either DoD, Haliburton, or DINSA are in most big torrent files. C'est la post-Bush world I suppose, what are we going to do, sue them for monitoring copyright-violating file sharing?

[Dodeca]

The government is in most torrents as well - either DoD, Haliburton, or DINSA are in most big torrent files. C'est la post-Bush world I suppose, what are we going to do, sue them for monitoring copyright-violating file sharing?

Illegal file sharing is not exactly what I had in my mind when I made this thread. I am more concerned with them taking my laptop that has private information on it. Private things should be protected. It might not be on paper but so what.

Note: When 1,000 Blu Ray disks can fit on a flash drive, its going to be easier then right click copy past to get a "file".

[Causa Mortis]

Illegal file sharing is not exactly what I had in my mind when I made this thread. I am more concerned with them taking my laptop that has private information on it. Private things should be protected. It might not be on paper but so what.

Note: When 1,000 Blu Ray disks can fit on a flash drive, its going to be easier then right click copy past to get a "file".

Same principle applies. Government provides and subsidizes internet access at an airport, presumably government is going to watch what you do. I don't like it, but I'm not going to start a new revolution over it either.

[Dodeca]

Same principle applies. Government provides and subsidizes internet access at an airport, presumably government is going to watch what you do. I don't like it, but I'm not going to start a new revolution over it either.

Subsidizing internet access at an airport is not the same as taking your cellphone away and downloading all its contents (vacation photos). Plus what if its a business phone with proprietary data on it.

[Causa Mortis]

Subsidizing internet access at an airport is not the same as taking your cellphone away and downloading all its contents (vacation photos). Plus what if its a business phone with proprietary data on it.

Well I agree with you in principle. But what are we going to do about it? Your best bet would be to go to an airport with sensitive data, have peerblock up, and when they try and get your stuff, log it and file a suit.

My guess is that they wouldn't even give you standing. That leaves you with violence as your only recourse, which its not worth.

[Aronnax]

I imagine that there's "no reasonable expectation of privacy" when boarding an aircraft.

[LaoTzu]

I wouldn't like anyone actively downloading files from my computer.


This IS a violation of your rights.... as files are not bombs. There is NO security issue for them to need files off of your computer.

I don't mind them visibly looking at the laptop...even x-raying it. But there is NO need for them to be pulling files off of your computer.

I think you have a case.

[Night Runner]

What about removing the hard drive while you're in an airport? I'm pretty sure they won't be able to do a thing to your files if they're in your pocket. :p

[Warrior]

I imagine that there's "no reasonable expectation of privacy" when boarding an aircraft.

This would seem to be the heart of the matter (as has been seen through many invasion of privacy legal claims). What is the expectation of privacy for your phone or laptop in an airport (or any public venue, for that matter)? If you have your laptop out and have your photos up, how much privacy can you really expect? On the other hand, if those files are not open, are password protected, etc., seems like the expectation of privacy is pretty high.

[Mader]

I agree with you that cell phone calls and computers should fall under the same privacy rules as landlines, but they don't, and they don't because of the technology.

If my stereo can pick up the neighbors cell phone calls, then there is no privacy.

[lurk]

Torrent should only allow access to designated files and directories. The fact that you're running a torrent peer shouldn't impact your expectation of privacy for other files.

It would seem that encrypting your files would enhance your expectation of privacy. However I'm not sure all customs agents would agree.

[Lonpone]

This rumor of the government seizing or scanning your files just because you're at an airport doesn't sound the least bit true. There are some cases, where by accessing a government computer, part of the agreement in the fine print at the bottom is that by connecting to said system, you forgo all expetations of privacy, etc. etc. An airport though, probably not unless it was owned by the state and you were using your wi-fi to tap into it. Grabbing your computer or scanning it's files without your consent would be the basis for a civil suite.

[lurk]

When I was traveling regularly to Europe in the early-to-mid 90's, we had to carry what was called an ITAR letter if we had a computer. ITAR stands for International Traffic in Arms Regulations. We didn't have anything to do with arms, but were working on a military sensor system. So even at that point it was necessary to CYA when going through customs with computer files. I can't imagine that it's gotten any less restrictive.

[Scatterbrane]

The Guardian article on border searches of laptops (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
Last month a US court ruled that border agents can search your laptop, or any other electronic device, when you're entering the country. They can take your computer and download its entire contents, or keep it for several days.
Additionally, from what I recall they're entitled to ask you for your passwords and have the authority to punish you through detention and/or denial of entry should you withhold them.

So if you're paranoid, encrypt/obfuscate/hide your data. If you're very paranoid, don't bring it over a border at all, have your computer be formatted or freshly installed while taking it over a border check, and transfer your data over the internet as needed.

[nacht]

The TSA cannot search the contents of your laptop/cell phone without probable cause (e.g., the Fofna case). Their responsibility goes to ensuring safety of passengers on the plane, and their responsibility extends only that far.

Customs can (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), however, and the justification is nothing like that used with filesharing (as Causa Mortis would have you believe; I mean, seriously, it isn't even the same agencies and they are operating under very different parts of the law). You can see the TSA's talk about this matter at the TSA blog (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

So in short: If you are flying and you aren't traveling internationally, your files will not be perused and your disks will not be copied.