Do I *reallly* have to vote?!!

[Brittle]

Seriously?

Perhaps when we can have candidates who's best election campaign isn't "the other guys are crapper than us, so vote for us!", then perhaps I could muster some enthusiasm. Perhaps if it wasn't compulsory and these morons had to WORK for your vote, they might show a little inspiration and long-term vision.

If only they had to approach it like a job application.... because you sure as hell ain't gonna get a job by telling your prospective employer how - while you haven't been able to show initiative, have never completed projects on time or to budget, and have rorted the system - "trust me" the other guys are much worse!

How about setting forth detailed proposals outlining how you intend to meet your targets, show where your forsight and research have produced winning results, supply evidence of strong leadership with references to back you up.


.......*sigh*.......


Guess I'll be flipping a coin for all the good it will do...... (..or maybe I will just give in to temptation this time 'round and write exactly what I think across my ballot paper :evil: mwahahahahaaaa..!)

[HackerX]

Ah yes, the american style of election campaigns has destroyed any hope for a decent election over here these days. Vote for an independant because at least you don't know why they're crap. Ignorance is bliss.

[eagleseven]

The modern American system is such that the most effective leaders are least likely to survive the political gauntlet. Democracy turns government into a popularity contest.

[leeser920]

I don't think you really have to vote if you don't want to. I live under the assumption that most people don't vote but say they do because everyone else says they did. How would anyone ever know if you did or didn't? (Unless you're an ass like me who asks to see a ballot stub).

[Brittle]

Here in Australia it is compulsory, they cross you off an electoral list on the day and if your name doesn't get crossed off they can hunt you down and fine you. I managed to get my name taken off the role when I moved overseas, but after I moved back, they started harassing me to re-enrol - I think they've got some kind of deal with the tax office so they can get your details.

Hell, I moved house (same town) in November and they're sending me letters to update my address details - not sure how they got those so fast, but I figure if they can send letters to my new address, they can bloody well update my details themselves, since clearly they already have them!!


No... it seems world domination is looking like the only sensible solution..!! :)

[Nightsun]

In Italy vote is not only a right but also a must. You can always go to vote and "nullify" your election card but you "must" go. There is no sanctions but the state take the list of "voters" and you can't apply for some "statal position" (like professors or surgeron in public structure) if you are a no-voter.

By the way, I always prefer to go and "at least" scrap the election card, If I think they are all idiots I like to say so and I want to avoid people using my card...

[ya lyublyu tebya]

Do what my mom does when she hates both candidates: write in your own, the more bizarre the better! Do they have write-ins in Australia?

[Brittle]

Do what my mom does when she hates both candidates: write in your own, the more bizarre the better! Do they have write-ins in Australia?

I don't know..! It sounds fun though :)

[leeser920]

Here in Australia it is compulsory, they cross you off an electoral list on the day and if your name doesn't get crossed off they can hunt you down and fine you.

Compulsory voting?! Now that is a scary thought! I can't imagine what it would be like to have compulsory voting here in the States considering that I think the majority of people are idiots who can't even spell the candidates names (I'm being flippant). But, wow, I never knew you HAD to vote in Australia. Does that mean the citizens are more aware and better informed? I would hope so anyway.

[Brittle]

It's hard to be "informed" when all you get is political BS and spin - and most people wouldn't/couldn't be bothered to look any further than the political ads on TV. Still, trying to find accurate and UNBIASED information is pretty hard when the each party hypes up their own policies and tear everyone else's down.

And who can trust the media to give unbiased information? Everyone has their own agenda, and it's pretty clear which way most media outlets lean. The sad thing is, at the end of the day, I don't know there's really much difference between any of them anyway. Seems they're all only interested in self-glorification in the term they have - although unlike the States, there's no limitation on the term any party or politician can serve, which is why it's doubly disappointing there's not more long-range vision being engaged.

[Elfrun]

I don't think you really have to vote if you don't want to.

You are correct. You do not have to vote, you have to present yourself at a voting poll and/or send in an absentee vote, you are most welcome to make a donkey vote (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), hell you can draw a phallus on the voting slip if you want, as long as you show up at one of the many local voting polls (usually schools, churches, community centres) and get your name crossed off then you're sweet.

Compulsory voting?! Now that is a scary thought! I can't imagine what it would be like to have compulsory voting here in the States considering that I think the majority of people are idiots who can't even spell the candidates names (I'm being flippant).

Why is it scary to attempt to get the most inclusive and representative voting? People are required to front up to a voting poll regardless of political views, regardless of education level or social standing. Politicians do not need to spend obscene amounts of money attempting to entice people to attend a voting booth, they can concentrate on policies and getting people to vote for them. It's still politics and no more noble than anywhere else but the voting system is truly democratic and representative.

Who represents the "majority of people that are idiots and can't even spell the candidates names"? Why would people assume that educated people are going to select a better candidate and why would people assume uneducated people don't/shouldn't vote? Government should not be there to represent upper class and business.

But, wow, I never knew you HAD to vote in Australia. Does that mean the citizens are more aware and better informed? I would hope so anyway.

Don't know how or what to compare that to.

Perhaps when we can have candidates who's best election campaign isn't "the other guys are crapper than us, so vote for us!", then perhaps I could muster some enthusiasm. Perhaps if it wasn't compulsory and these morons had to WORK for your vote, they might show a little inspiration and long-term vision.

You want the road shows they have in America? You know the ones where they try to hype people up just so they can get them to vote? Sounds like a fantastic way to waste money and promote sensationalist views that sell.

How about setting forth detailed proposals outlining how you intend to meet your targets, show where your forsight and research have produced winning results, supply evidence of strong leadership with references to back you up.

Educate yourself. Every single political party I've ever looked into has a website that is easily accessible and has their many policies and stances listed on them. Your issue is with the politicians/main parties, not the voting system.

[eagleseven]

You want the road shows they have in America? You know the ones where they try to hype people up just so they can get them to vote? Sounds like a fantastic way to waste money and promote sensationalist views that sell.
On the other hand, the fewer people voting, the more my vote counts. I would be angry too, if I thought my well-researched vote was being nullified by an uninformed idiot filling out the ballot just because the law requires him to do so.

IMO, if you aren't willing to become informed, leave voting to those who are.

Why is it scary to attempt to get the most inclusive and representative voting?
You wouldn't trust an average person off the street with making critical medical decisions. So why would you force the person off the street to make critical leadership decisions?

What good will it do to arbitrarily force people to make decisions they have no desire to make?

[Brittle]

Seems to me our politicians still spend an obscene amount of money on self promotion to entice people to vote for them, none of which is very informative... and having looked into political websites and other information in the past, I take anything they say with a grain of salt (remember "I'll never, ever introduce a GST" or "We will never privatise Telstra"?).

Therefore, I object to having to spend the little time I have on a Saturday, lined up for hours to have my name crossed of a list - regardless of what I do with my ballot paper. Lodging an absentee vote only means you get to line up somewhere else and (correct me if I'm wrong), I believe you still need to arrange a suitable authority to witness your signature for a postal vote.

You are right in saying my issue is with the politicians - I feel there are none who represent the issues important to me, and as such, I object to having to join in their little circus.

But hey - I've had my vent. Perhaps I'll be able to sleep tonight after all..!

[Pandemonium]

Tips for being an informed citizen in Australian democracy:

1)Don't watch television.
2)Don't read news papers.
3)Don't listen to the radio.
4)Don't watch parliamentary question time sound bites. Well, sometimes it is insightful.
5)Seek facts and draw inferences using that INTJ brain.
6)Learn as much as you can on as many subjects as possible. Economics, history and science are good starting points.
7)Most of all, be involved.

We have been conditioned since birth to perceive politics the way in which you are referring. This behavior is counter productive. It is a travesty.

It is not the politicians themselves who constitute most of the bullshit. The main culprit is the mainstream media. They distort, disturb, disenfranchise and dedicate on, all that is politics. I have been at parliament house in Canberra observing a bill being read and when i arrived home the media had presented it in such as way that the ongoings were opposite to what actually occurred. Politicians try to utilize the medium to propagate their philosophy but to do so they must play the game. Hence, they all seem disingenuous.

To answer the title of this thread; you only need to get your name signed off at the polling station.

---------- Post added 02-23-2010 at 10:03 PM ----------


You are right in saying my issue is with the politicians - I feel there are none who represent the issues important to me, and as such, I object to having to join in their little circus.

But hey - I've had my vent. Perhaps I'll be able to sleep tonight after all..!

What issues are important to you?

---------- Post added 02-23-2010 at 10:08 PM ----------

On the other hand, the fewer people voting, the more my vote counts. I would be angry too, if I thought my well-researched vote was being nullified by an uninformed idiot filling out the ballot just because the law requires him to do so.

IMO, if you aren't willing to become informed, leave voting to those who are.


You wouldn't trust an average person off the street with making critical medical decisions. So why would you force the person off the street to make critical leadership decisions?

What good will it do to arbitrarily force people to make decisions they have no desire to make?

In Australia you have an obligation to be an informed citizen and you have an obligation to contribute to the decision making process of this fine corporation but that only goes as so fas as signing your name off at the polling station. If you are apathetic you can always write over your ballot paper "Monkey fucking a coconut."

[Elfrun]

You wouldn't trust an average person off the street with making critical medical decisions. So why would you force the person off the street to make critical leadership decisions?

Making a medical decision is not relatable to voting in an election, quite an overreach, no one person is making a decision they just get to vote, like everyone else. The average person off the street deserves to be represented and I trust their 'uninformed' vote as much as I trust the vote of someone who is well read and has their own political agenda.

Your stance appears to be that some people shouldn't vote. Thankfully that isn't what the law believes. We even allow women and blacks to vote now :)

What good will it do to arbitrarily force people to make decisions they have no desire to make?

Reread my last post, no one is forced to vote.

having looked into political websites and other information in the past, I take anything they say with a grain of salt

Sure, I take political promises in the manner they're meant, which is to say they promise whatever it'll take to get majority vote regardless of practical intent. I'm talking about their policies that represent their ethic/morals/stances though. Most parties, even the smaller ones have their policies on anything and everything online, they're mostly not related to promises (particularly the minor parties), just their views on things and therefore give an idea of how their views align with our individual views. Personally I ignore much/all of the talk on TV and such, waste of time.

No matter how much Labour and Liberal smell the same I like our system that works to stop apathy from turning elections into circuses.

Therefore, I object to having to spend the little time I have on a Saturday, lined up for hours to have my name crossed of a list - regardless of what I do with my ballot paper.

Hours? Jeez. I've never lined up for more than a few minutes. That sucks.

Anyhoo, vent away, myself: I've been pissed off with the Democrats since they shot themselves in the political foot as they had a chance to offer an alternate choice to the two main parties that are more similar than different *shrug*

[eagleseven]

In Australia you have an obligation to be an informed citizen and you have an obligation to contribute to the decision making process of this fine corporation but that only goes as so fas as signing your name off at the polling station. If you are apathetic you can always write over your ballot paper "Monkey fucking a coconut."
So, assuming I have no interest in becoming informed, I am best off selling my vote to the highest bidder? If I am being forced to deal with the polling station, might as well make money while doing it.

---------- Post added 02-23-2010 at 04:21 AM ----------

Making a medical decision is not relatable to voting in an election, quite an overreach, no one person is making a decision they just get to vote, like everyone else.
How so? If you are willing to put the power to make war, which will affect millions of lives, in the hands of the electorate, why not put your course of medical treatment to the same electorate? We democratically choose those who will drop nuclear bombs, but maintain a medical oligarchy.

The average person off the street deserves to be represented and I trust their 'uninformed' vote as much as I trust the vote of someone who is well read and has their own political agenda.
Then I do not trust your judgement.

Your stance appears to be that some people shouldn't vote. Thankfully that isn't what the law believes. We even allow women and blacks to vote now :)
Indeed, some people shouldn't vote. Race and gender have nothing to do with it, and I don't appreciate the insinuation.


Reread my last post, no one is forced to vote.
They could alternatively pay a fine or other penalty.

[Brittle]

It is not the politicians themselves who constitute most of the bullshit. The main culprit is the mainstream media. They distort, disturb, disenfranchise and dedicate on, all that is politics. I have been at parliament house in Canberra observing a bill being read and when i arrived home the media had presented it in such as way that the ongoings were opposite to what actually occurred. Politicians try to utilize the medium to propagate their philosophy but to do so they must play the game. Hence, they all seem disingenuous.

I certainly don't disagree with your points on the media, but surely the pollies have figured out by now that people are looking for credibility and integrity. I find myself far more impressed with those rare politicians who are brave enough to praise the actions of another in an opposing party, rather than immediately disagreeing, just because "X" said it... or those politicians who are willing to break from party lines because they hold a different view and are prepared to stand by it. Sadly we just don't see this happening enough.


What issues are important to you?

At the moment I am so tired I'm just about falling off my chair, so I won't go into great detail, however as a single, low-income earner for most of my life with a chronic health issue, it seems most parties over look this demographic and gear policies (especially at election time) toward families and business owners - as such, most of these policies have no relevance to me and many I have found objectionable.

I guess my views on life and what the important things are don't often match those of the general public, so perhaps it's not so surprising those parties looking to appease the public don't offer what I am looking for.

What I am looking for right now, however, is a good night's sleep, so off to bed I go.....

[pip]

I won't cast a vote until there is someone whom I can vote for who adequately represents my views.
Until then polling stations are ignored, and postal ballots are ripped in half and returned.

Choose, but only from the mediocre right-wing sameish choices we deign to give you.
No.

[Elfrun]

So, assuming I have no interest in becoming informed, I am best off selling my vote to the highest bidder? If I am being forced to deal with the polling station, might as well make money while doing it.

That might have more value in a system where getting people to the voting stations is tough, no one's gonna buy 1 vote out of a population of millions. You can try though.

People can, of course, apply to be taken off the electoral role, never looked into it myself but I grew up in a religion that prided themselves on being conscious objectors who refused to vote in elections cause "that should be in God's hands", a one off letter excuses you for life I believe.

How so? If you are willing to put the power to make war, which will affect millions of lives, in the hands of the electorate, why not put your course of medical treatment to the same electorate? We democratically choose those who will drop nuclear bombs, but maintain a medical oligarchy.

That makes no sense. You likened voting for a politician to making a medical decision, you most probably need medical training to do the latter, you simply need to have views for the first one.

Then I do not trust your judgement.

So I shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Indeed, some people shouldn't vote. Race nor gender have anything to do with it, and I don't appreciate the insinuation.

What criteria then? Those who are uneducated, poor, illiterate? They shouldn't be entitled to vote? Those with radical views? Those who are unemployed and don't pay taxes? Those who can't pass a 20 question quiz about the election process? None of those things take away a person's ability to have a valid opinion nor their right to representation in Government. Government decisions affect them, they deserve the chance to affect who's in government.

They could alternatively pay a fine or other penalty.

Reread my last first post, no one is forced to vote.

Seriously.

[HackerX]

"Monkey fucking a coconut."*

Ah, the labour vote. Alternatively, "Donkey taking a crap" for the liberal vote.

*ROFL, the first image that brought to mind was Mr Rudd explaining the labour stance on something.

[Seducer]

Politics is futile and disturbs my peace, so I have nothing to do with it.

[Pandemonium]

I certainly don't disagree with your points on the media, but surely the pollies have figured out by now that people are looking for credibility and integrity. I find myself far more impressed with those rare politicians who are brave enough to praise the actions of another in an opposing party, rather than immediately disagreeing, just because "X" said it... or those politicians who are willing to break from party lines because they hold a different view and are prepared to stand by it. Sadly we just don't see this happening enough.


There are few things that are interesting to note. The far majority of bills passed have bipartisan support. The two major parties only differ on some policies. In reality we have a one party system.

There is a behavior in the Labor Party, if a member crosses the floor against the party they are automatically dismissed from the party. You will not see often an opposing view appearing in the media. The Labor party have now become Fabian Socialists and lost their roots. Kevin Rudd is a megalomaniac that has a strange fascination with creating supranational entities that remove our sovereignty.

The Liberals are a bunch of hypocrites. They believe in free markets and small government but they love their detrimental middle class welfare and subsidizing the the private sector. Liberals have not learned that the general populous does not want a deregulated labour market.

I could rant on.


At the moment I am so tired I'm just about falling off my chair, so I won't go into great detail, however as a single, low-income earner for most of my life with a chronic health issue, it seems most parties over look this demographic and gear policies (especially at election time) toward families and business owners - as such, most of these policies have no relevance to me and many I have found objectionable.

I guess my views on life and what the important things are don't often match those of the general public, so perhaps it's not so surprising those parties looking to appease the public don't offer what I am looking for.

What I am looking for right now, however, is a good night's sleep, so off to bed I go.....

Sadly your of the demographic that the general populous does not care about much. Perhaps we should give welfare to who need it. Not the middle class.

[AnnoyingPony]

Has anyone here ever seen the South Park episode where the kids have to pick a new school mascot, but their only choices are a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich? That basically summarizes American politics.

[jhbowden79]

Q: Do you have to vote?

A: If you're a conservative, yes. If you're a progressive, no.

:devilish:

[pip]

Q: Do you have to vote?

A: If you're satisfied with corruption, nepotism, backhanders, inequality and greed then yes.
If not, probably still yes only you have no-one to actually vote for who doesn't do all this shit above. Unlucky.

:rolleyes:

[Pandemonium]

I forgot to vote once and got a $200 fine. :(

[Thinker]

Hell, I moved house (same town) in November and they're sending me letters to update my address details - not sure how they got those so fast, but I figure if they can send letters to my new address, they can bloody well update my details themselves, since clearly they already have them!!

Yeah...this bugs me too.
It is a limitation of the privacy laws. Government departments are allowed to share information up to a point. You will find that one government department has shared information that you have moved.

The Electoral Commission is unable to change your details without your approval.

[Syntax]

I don't know anything about the process in Australia, but here in the U.S. we have the electoral system (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)(the system by which Bush won in 2000 despite receiving less total votes).

I live in Michigan. Obama already won in Michigan long before the actual vote took place. The polls showed him ahead by so much only a miracle would have changed the results(believe it or not, Michigan was considered a "swing state" (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) at the time). I preferred Obama...but why vote for him? He gets the same 17 electoral votes whether he wins by a little or a lot. Voting for John McCain would have been just as futile for the same reason. My vote was effectively worthless.

I voted Nader. I most likely will not vote ever again.

[Warrior]

I voted Nader. I most likely will not vote ever again.

Yeah, let's all do that. That'll show them!

Seriously, what do you hope to accomplish by never voting again? Even if you don't like the electoral system, it is only used for the presidency (unless there is something similar on a state level there).

[Syntax]

Yeah, let's all do that. That'll show them!

Seriously, what do you hope to accomplish by never voting again? Even if you don't like the electoral system, it is only used for the presidency (unless there is something similar on a state level there).

Apathy is a strong statement. Only about 60% of registered voters actually voted in 2008. That's the fault of the political parties, not the voters(though laziness plays a small role, I'm sure). When the parties produce candidates that actually represent the people's best interests that will change; just look at how many more african americans voted when they felt they had representation in 2008.

[Warrior]

Apathy is a strong statement. Only about 60% of registered voters actually voted in 2008. That's the fault of the political parties, not the voters(though laziness plays a small role, I'm sure). When the parties produce candidates that actually represent the people's best interests that will change; just look at how many more african americans voted when they felt they had representation in 2008.

Nope. That's 100% the fault of the voters. Playing the victum gets about as far as not voting.

[Syntax]

Nope. That's 100% the fault of the voters. Playing the victum gets about as far as not voting.

Yeah, but at least you won't have to wait in line and participate in a mass delusion. Plus I'll still be able to vote, if I feel the need. I'll just tell one of my more conservative friends I'm registered and planning to vote for "the opposite guy" and offer a pact in which we both don't vote. Happens all the time. How is he/she to know I'm not actually registered?

[freeeekyyy]

Ah yes, the american style of election campaigns has destroyed any hope for a decent election over here these days. Vote for an independant because at least you don't know why they're crap. Ignorance is bliss.

Well it's pretty clear this person isn't american, so it doesn't really matter. I'm guessing she's australian, in australia it's illegal to not vote.

Edit: I guess I should read the thread. She already said she was australian herself.

[Elfrun]

Well it's pretty clear this person isn't american, so it doesn't really matter. I'm guessing she's australian, in australia it's illegal to not vote.

Edit: I guess I should read the thread. She already said she was australian herself.

They're both Aussies ;)

Seriously though, everyone, I've already made it clear in here as have other people: IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO NOT VOTE! You have to get your name crossed of a list to say you attended a voting booth, that's all, after that you may be as apathetic as you desire :)

[zibber]

Perhaps when we can have candidates who's best election campaign isn't "the other guys are crapper than us, so vote for us!", then perhaps I could muster some enthusiasm. Perhaps if it wasn't compulsory and these morons had to WORK for your vote, they might show a little inspiration and long-term vision.

There are, though.

[Frag]

The major parties in SA are a pretty big shambles... I'm looking at pretty much any alternative, not that it will mean much.

[Nikita]

I never vote. I've never found a candidate worth voting for.

[Lucid]

I had a conversation with a friend about a documentary he'd seen. The documentary was about the religious right and how they have some ungodly (pun intended) number of registered voters who actually vote. This terrified and disturbed him. Yet he does not vote. This strikes me as completely stupid. Often it's not voting for the best candidate, it's voting against the worst candidate. In 2000 I voted for Browne. And we got Bush.

If only I'd known then what I know now.

Australia's practice of requiring that people vote strikes me as strange though. While I want people to vote, I certainly wouldn't force them to.

[Elfrun]

Australia's practice of requiring that people vote strikes me as strange though. While I want people to vote, I certainly wouldn't force them to.

I understand that to someone who comes from a place where you are not required to register as a voter and present yourself to a voting booth at election time it can seem strange, even excessive but my stance is this;

When I was younger teachers at school would try to get us interested in politics and knowing what was happening in our own country, specifically what our government was doing, and to have opinions on it. I thought voting was a pain in the ass, I didn't register when I turned 18, I believe I could have been fined but I never have been, a couple of years later I realised exactly what you posted above, my apathy, even disinterest in how things are run was a negative thing for me as there are people out here who create parties like Family First (aka the happy clappers) who stand against so many things I consider important. Politics and religion in Oz are separate, we are not a strongly religious country like America but Family First is effectively a religious party that pushes for rights of those who fit within the confines of what is 'morally' acceptable and would remove the rights all my gay friends have if they could. There are enough people who consider their policies a positive thing and would vote accordingly even if registering to vote was not a requirement.

If I wasn't required as a citizen to register to vote I may have never done so (I'm lazy like that), the thought in the back of my mind that I may be fined if I didn't register soon encouraged me to do so when I was about 20 and as I was required to attend a voting booth I decided I may as well make an effort to understand exactly what my vote meant, voting for an independent candidate who has no chance of winning is not a "good strategy", if a happy clapper stands a shot of winning a seat voting for their closest opposition is. Being required to register to vote encouraged me to educate myself.

The other thing I believe is important: No political party or politician needs to focus their campaign on getting people to attend a voting booth. I don't know how it works in America but those road shows look like circuses from where I am. If people need to be enticed to vote then while some will do so out of personal interest many will not unless it grabs their attention, we live in a society where reality tv and sensationalist news stories are considered a good thing, apathy in something as important as how your country is run is dangerous when the result is only those with strong enough opinions to care vote imo, there's no 'take-back' if the wrong person is elected.

And of course, the whole weirdness people see in this system tends to come from a reaction to people saying in Australia it's illegal to not vote, that is simply not true, no one has to vote.

[Thinker]

I want to amplify what Eflrun has said above.

In Australia nobody is being forced to vote...you can just go through the motions.

I have been absent during a number of elections (and haven't voted) and have never been fined. The law is pretty "soft" in that respect.

I recognise others have mentioned being fined above, but I have found that an explanatory letter has always avoided a fine.

I guess the logic is that the law provides encouragement for more engagement in politics. I can't answer whether this is the case or not, although Elfrun's comments above would signify that it has at least changed one person's political engagement:)