Genius and Mental Disorders. Which of the following do you have?

[Sesquipedalian]

FYI, this is a private poll :)

I've found that some of the most special, intelligent people are also some of the most afflicted. One of my most ingenious friends also has bipolar. One of my best (intelligent) friends (who I've known since the 7th grade) recently divulged to me that she suffers from depression. It's crazy how good we are at hiding our problems.

I'm generally a pretty happy dude, but I have tourette syndrome (very mild now), ADD (has never been a problem for me), clinical depression (has affected me on and off for my entire life), and have also been clinically diagnosed with hypersomnia. Although, I also have bouts of insomnia.

Despite all of this you'd never know it if you knew me in person :). ...but I've always been fascinated by the (assumed?) connection between genius and neurological affliction.

So, if you don't care to divulge, simply vote... but I'm interested.

[DeadSpace]

Used to have insomnia, faded over time though. Can still pop up, stay awake for 24+ hours, has to be something going on i'm involved with though...doesn't happen randomly. 159~161

[Jgib5328]

I'm not a genius, but I do have some mental flaws. I did suffer depression sophomore & junior year of high school too.

[Nausved]

I tend toward an obsessive compulsive personality (i.e., I'm a bit anal retentive), but it's no Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.

I've been depressed a few times, but it has always been temporary and directly related to outside events (e.g., my brother's death), so I would not consider that a disorder, either.

Other than that, I'm mentally healthy as far as I can tell.

[apresmoimelle]

I think it's odd that when people mention Depression on a list of "mental disorders" they never mention dysthymia...

[Sesquipedalian]

I think it's odd that when people mention Depression on a list of "mental disorders" they never mention dysthymia...
Well I did mention cyclothymia O_o. I can't mention EVERY disorder, but I figured I listed enough that if one is at least close they can mark it.

Yeah, with you on that. I'm not clinically diagnosed, but generally speaking, if you draw a horizontal line respresenting the average happiness of people, my line is probably consistently below that line with random spikes of hypomania in there along the way :D ...keeps life interesting haha!

[apresmoimelle]

Well I did mention cyclothymia O_o. I can't mention EVERY disorder, but I figured I listed enough that if one is at least close they can mark it.

Yeah, with you on that. I'm not clinically diagnosed, but generally speaking, if you draw a horizontal line respresenting the average happiness of people, my line is probably consistently below that line with random spikes of hypomania in there along the way :D ...keeps life interesting haha!

I know you can't mention every disorder, but you mentioned depression and dysthymia is related to that. You did mention cyclothymia...I saw that. : p

[bubbles]

Are you assuming that most INTJs are geniuses? :) I have insomnia, and suffered from depression a bit, and also anxiety disorder. I think that being a genius does not necessarily imply that you have a mental disorder, though having a mental disorder might lead to you being a genius! Some mental disorders can lead to extreme intelligence and creativity. For example, some artists suffer from mental disorders but that was also where their creativity come from. Some other geniuses like Einstein and Newton had Asperger's Syndrome. I think the guy who invented Pokemon was also an aspie but I'm not sure whether he can be considered a "genius."

[Sesquipedalian]

Are you assuming that most INTJs are geniuses? :) I have insomnia, and suffered from depression a bit, and also anxiety disorder. I think that being a genius does not necessarily imply that you have a mental disorder, though having a mental disorder might lead to you being a genius! Some mental disorders can lead to extreme intelligence and creativity. For example, some artists suffer from mental disorders but that was also where their creativity come from. Some other geniuses like Einstein and Newton had Asperger's Syndrome. I think the guy who invented Pokemon was also an aspie but I'm not sure whether he can be considered a "genius."
Most of the INTJs I've met online have been genius level. One is rapid-cycling bipolar, and the other is relatively normal from what I know, but an aerospace engineer.

There is no doubt that the my afflictions are also a source of my creativity... Ya' gotta' take the good with the bad! :)

[lordrrr]

All my friends say I'm bipolar, but I havn't been diagnosed.

[jamescwade2]

I have been told by an observer (who just happened to be an OCD afflicted person) that I exhibit some OC tendencies... hmmm. I was also told that it gets worse the older you get. Told by another that it appeared as if I has a slight case of ADD. When I was a child I used to get freaked out, albeit ever so slightly, if I colored OUTSIDE the lines in my coloring books.

I am an artist (used to make my living airbrushing Harleys and Leather Jackets in Chi)
I sing
I play drums
I act (or at least have the ability to so well as judged by others)

I feel normal (what's normal, though?)
weird, hunh?

[Sesquipedalian]

All my friends say I'm bipolar, but I havn't been diagnosed.

You can't be diagnosed with bipolar without having a true manic episode. Google it if you want. There is no doubt that I've experienced hypomania many many times, but I've never had a true manic episode.

I almost convinced a well-established professional counselor that I was Bipolar type II a few years ago because I had researched the matter so thoroughly hahaha.

[Jgib5328]

Yeah I think there is something fundamentally wrong with this topic. INTJ =/= genius. So you aren't really getting the result you want. You are basically finding out if INTJs have dealt with a mental disorder.

[Sesquipedalian]

Yeah I think there is something fundamentally wrong with this topic. INTJ =/= genius. So you aren't really getting the result you want. You are basically finding out if INTJs have dealt with a mental disorder.

Hm... Perhaps I should says that INTJs are more likely to exhibit genius?

Maybe I've just seen a "skewed sample" as it were, but every INTJ I've come into contact with thus far has been leaps and bounds more intelligent than the people I come into contact with on a daily basis.

Namely the drunken man yelling outside my dormroom window as I write this LOL! :laugh: Seriously. There is some guy out there yelling about how some burger is crap xD Sorry, it was just so ironic.

[bubbles]

An INTJ from a random sample is more likely to be more intelligent than a random person from the general population, but geniuses are rare, probably even among INTJs. In my experience, people assume that I am very smart because of my INTJ-ness... I'm sure you guys probably get that a lot too.

[Haphazard]

An INTJ from a random sample is more likely to be more intelligent than a random person from the general population, but geniuses are rare, probably even among INTJs. In my experience, people assume that I am very smart because of my INTJ-ness... I'm sure you guys probably get that a lot too.

Well, INTJs process information in a certain way that can make them seem smart in a traditional way. Other types can be very smart too but they're not usually seen as smart in a book-learny, traditional type of way as much as INTs are.

I have to wonder though, how is the OP defining 'genius'?

[Sesquipedalian]

Well, INTJs process information in a certain way that can make them seem smart in a traditional way. Other types can be very smart too but they're not usually seen as smart in a book-learny, traditional type of way as much as INTs are.

I have to wonder though, how is the OP defining 'genius'?
I tend to define it in the statistical/IQ definition. An IQ of 130+ (or 140+, depending on the test). a.k.a. two standard deviations away from the mean or greater.

Although, I always assumed that most geniuses are gifted at multiple things simply because their ability to learn is so much faster than that of a typical individual.

Maybe what I believe is faulty. I only have my own experiences to go on! That's the reason I made this thread... to share and discuss things :)

This is not meant to seem condescending at all as my goal is understanding. If you know you are being an irrational nutjob why do you continue? Is it really uncontrollable?
If I knew what it was you were asking I'd attempt to answer it :-\

[Haphazard]

I tend to define it in the statistical/IQ definition. An IQ of 130+ (or 140+, depending on the test). a.k.a. two standard deviations away from the mean or greater.

Although, I always assumed that most geniuses are gifted at multiple things simply because their ability to learn is so much faster than that of a typical individual.

Maybe what I believe is faulty. I only have my own experiences to go on! That's the reason I made this thread... to share and discuss things :)

I thought that's what you meant, but I don't like going by the IQ definition of 'genius.' IQ tests show nothing of creatively and ingeniously implementing solutions but rather measure... how well you do on IQ tests.

Genius has to be measured by the complete body of work that a person produces, and I've noticed that a lot of what accounts for 'genius' is how one behaves. Behavior is usually slanted towards eccentricity for 'genius,' which INTJs have down pretty well. Genius also needs to be widely accepted as geniuses, at least by a somewhat large group of people.

Not everybody gets to be a genius. :p That's just the way life is. But, if we were looking at intelligent eccentrics, then we might have enough people here to get a good answer.

[Sesquipedalian]

Well personally I much prefer a borderline psychotic genius to those boring old normal geniuses :p

[Antares]

The closest I can think of is Obsessive-Compulsive and Schizoid, but I don't think I actually have them. Well, I don't know if I'm a genius or if IQ really means anything, but it's 143-152 for me. I'm disorder-free! *bright smile*

[Aoiluna]

I think that maybe because INTJ's have a more complex way of thinking, theyre more likely to develop mental disorders. Of course like a few have said above, the relation of mental disorders and geniuses cant really be determined with this group of forum members. Some people may even be mistyped and most are not geniuses. I know that I have the ability to understand and learn concepts better than the average population but dont consider myself anywhere near genius level intelligence.

As for mental disorders, i havent been professionaly diagnosed but exhibit signs of ocd, add, and schizotypal disorders. I went through a phase of depression about 6 years ago.

[ElstonGunn]

I don't have any disorders. I'm just weird.

[Haphazard]

My parents are currently trying to get me diagnosed for a disorder of some kind because they want me medicated. It's disgusting.

I have had some bad phobia problems but I'm trying to take care of that with a psychologist. But they still want me medicated.

[schmidt]

I've had my episodes depressions, and I've come to terms with the fact that I get Panic Attacks from time to time.

[Sesquipedalian]

My parents are currently trying to get me diagnosed for a disorder of some kind because they want me medicated. It's disgusting.

I have had some bad phobia problems but I'm trying to take care of that with a psychologist. But they still want me medicated.

Yeah, I had a very very strong aversion to medications. I don't even like taking advil, so it took a lot for me to finally break down and take an SSRI, but man, they can help.

[Haphazard]

Yeah, I had a very very strong aversion to medications. I don't even like taking advil, so it took a lot for me to finally break down and take an SSRI, but man, they can help.

I still think they're overreacting.

They think I have a social anxiety issue on top of everything. They think that "I need to make more friends." I may be an unusual teenager in that I don't believe making friends is the most important part of my life right now. I'm not afraid of talking to people, I just don't like it. There's a difference between being unable to engage in small talk because you hate small talk and being unable to engage in small talk because you're afraid of being a fool.

[Aoiluna]

Wow im glad that my parents never made me go to the doctor for everything. I dont like to take medications either, even painkillers. I hate going to the doctor and avoid it as much as possible.

When I was depressed I just kind of pulled out of it myself, even though my parents asked if I wanted to see a therapist. I was more embarrassed than anything I think and just didnt want to deal with it.

[Sesquipedalian]

I still think they're overreacting.

They think I have a social anxiety issue on top of everything. They think that "I need to make more friends." I may be an unusual teenager in that I don't believe making friends is the most important part of my life right now. I'm not afraid of talking to people, I just don't like it. There's a difference between being unable to engage in small talk because you hate small talk and being unable to engage in small talk because you're afraid of being a fool.

I felt like that all throughout highschool. My "friend" was the internet and the knowledge that could be gained through it. Regardless of my commiseration with you, I think a lot of us actually do have undiagnosed anxiety disorders (I think most INTJs are type A). An SSRI can help with depression and anxiety though, which is nice.

They might be overreacting because they don't understand you, but at least they react :P. As annoying as it is, it means they care. My mom bugged me and bugged me about getting on an antidepressant, but in the end I never did until I finally got desperate enough to give it a shot. I'm really glad I did. I experience no significant side effects.

Wow im glad that my parents never made me go to the doctor for everything. I dont like to take medications either, even painkillers. I hate going to the doctor and avoid it as much as possible.

When I was depressed I just kind of pulled out of it myself, even though my parents asked if I wanted to see a therapist. I was more embarrassed than anything I think and just didnt want to deal with it.

Yeah, I took the same approach. Just be careful to monitor yourself. Over time I found my depressive states became longer, deeper, and more frequent. Research has shown that being on an SSRI consistently for about 9-12 months can have very positive results even after discontinuing the medication. The theory is that this allows our brain to produce more seratonin binding sites (or something to that effect), so that we remain happier more after therapy.

Seriously, if you're miserable all the time it's worth a shot. This is coming from someone who hates to take any drugs (and who is also in the medical profession). I thought taking an SSRI would stifle my creativity or make me dumber... or change my brain permanently in some insidious, negative way, but all of those notions proved to be wrong. I'm just as intelligent and creative... just... happier :)

[Haphazard]

I felt like that all throughout highschool. My "friend" was the internet and the knowledge that could be gained through it. Regardless of my commiseration with you, I think a lot of us actually do have undiagnosed anxiety disorders (I think most INTJs are type A). An SSRI can help with depression and anxiety though, which is nice.

They might be overreacting because they don't understand you, but at least they react :P. As annoying as it is, it means they care. My mom bugged me and bugged me about getting on an antidepressant, but in the end I never did until I finally got desperate enough to give it a shot. I'm really glad I did. I experience no significant side effects.

My father is taking some medication for depression, he doesn't do anything at all anymore. He mostly just sits there. He's exteremely overmedicated. It's disgusting.

I might be more receptive to the idea if they were approaching it in a different way. My father thinks I have serious authority issues, and I'd say that he's the cause of about 85% of my anxiety. Seriously. He scares the shit out of me. He's unreasonable and he's impossible to talk to and anything he believes should be solved by spur-of-the-moment, extreme decisions. He's always had very poor emotional control and I never know how to talk to him at all. He also thinks that because I'm his child he has complete control over me. He's supposed to be a brilliant man but aside from a few specified areas he acts like a child, and giving a child the keys to my life and future is terrifying.

And if so many people have undiagnosed anxiety issues, as you say, it may be more of a societal problem that cultures them rather than brain chemistry issues. Like obesity and heart disease, it may run in families, but of course there's a difference in diet and exercise today that didn't exist way back when that makes people even more predisposed now. And if this is the case, then is society going to change for the mental health of its members, or is it going to keep going in this anxiety-inducing direction and just insist that those who have problems with it be medicated?

[Sesquipedalian]

My father is taking some medication for depression, he doesn't do anything at all anymore. He mostly just sits there. He's exteremely overmedicated. It's disgusting.

I might be more receptive to the idea if they were approaching it in a different way. My father thinks I have serious authority issues, and I'd say that he's the cause of about 85% of my anxiety. Seriously. He scares the shit out of me. He's unreasonable and he's impossible to talk to and anything he believes should be solved by spur-of-the-moment, extreme decisions. He's always had very poor emotional control and I never know how to talk to him at all. He also thinks that because I'm his child he has complete control over me. He's supposed to be a brilliant man but aside from a few specified areas he acts like a child, and giving a child the keys to my life and future is terrifying.

And if so many people have undiagnosed anxiety issues, as you say, it may be more of a societal problem that cultures them rather than brain chemistry issues. Like obesity and heart disease, it may run in families, but of course there's a difference in diet and exercise today that didn't exist way back when that makes people even more predisposed now. And if this is the case, then is society going to change for the mental health of its members, or is it going to keep going in this anxiety-inducing direction and just insist that those who have problems with it be medicated?

Well if society bended to suit us, then all of a sudden 99% of people are off-kilter and we're happy. I'm sure there could be some sort of theoretical situation where we're relatively anxiety-free, but we both know that's not feasible or possible in most cases.

If you experience depression fairly frequently and deeply for no apparent reason then there is a problem with your brain chemistry, and you're normally not going to have one isolated problem when it comes to brain chemicals. Seratonin, Dopamine, and Norepinephrine all interact and when you throw one off the others can get thrown off. I know... ADD, Tourette Syndrome, and Depression all stem from the levels of those hormones being off and I have them all.

Back when I was on meds for Tourette Syndrome (no longer, thankfully) some meds would affect my mood, causing me to be angry constantly. Other drugs might've helped my mood, but didn't help my tourette syndrome significantly.

I have no doubt that depression and anxiety are connected. Your dad can't make the choice for you. You can make it for yourself. If it coincides with his desire then he can think he's right or whatever, but you'll know it was your decision.

...just don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I still hit the occasional low day, but danged if I'm not a lot happier more of the time now. It seems almost inconceivable to me, but SSRIs are very nice drugs... Tricyclic Antidepressants (cheap, crappy antidepressants that medicare, etc. pay for) and MAOIs can have a lot of significant side effects, but SSRIs have proven time and time again to be some excellent drugs with virtually no side effects. An SSRI will probably help you cope with your apparently erratic dad as well, as things that used to spiral me into depression don't really have that big of an effect on me now.

Despite knowing this from my pharmacological studies I still didn't want to take the darned thing becuse I'd convinced myself that I could develop coping mechanisms to handle it myself...

Depression is a disease just like any other. Diabetics need insulin. We need Seratonin. Sure, we can "live" without it, but is depression really living?

Anywho, not trying to push you into anything you don't want, but if you're even a bit as stubborn as I am, you're not going to want to try drugs except as a complete last resort. Sadly, I felt like I was about to have a breakdown when I finally decided I'd do almost anything to feel better, but I sure do now, so sometimes terrible situations can be for the good in the long run.

Food for thought from a fellow skeptic!

[Aoiluna]

Seriously, if you're miserable all the time it's worth a shot. This is coming from someone who hates to take any drugs (and who is also in the medical profession). I thought taking an SSRI would stifle my creativity or make me dumber... or change my brain permanently in some insidious, negative way, but all of those notions proved to be wrong. I'm just as intelligent and creative... just... happier :)

Well I will consider it, but do you become dependent on it?

[meanlittlechimp]

It's funny how many people here think they are geniuses, but from what I've read elsewhere here, many seem to think all INTJs fit into that category.

On a serious note, can the INTJs here who have full blown ADD explain how it manifests itself?

I can't imagine an ENTP having OCD, (though I could easily imagine ADHD/ADD)
I can't imagine an INTJ having full blown ADD, (but I could easily imagine OCD or asperger).
Insomnia and depression I could see in any type.

[deepFlow]

Cool avatar, Sesquip!

Anyway, the phrase from one of your posts way up above, "rapid-cycling bipolar" gives me food for thought. I wonder if that's what I have... I've dismissed the idea of my being bipolar because the manics, if they are in fact there, are so damn short.

Anyway, it's a friggin maze.

What's the real way to find out what the hell you have, that doesn't involve being proactively medicated? What revolts me about medication is the whole seeming "guinea pig" aspect. I really don't like that idea. Seems like you'd be just as likely to make bad shit happen to you, as discover what bad shit you're already going through, chemically, with that route. Is diagnosis any kind of scientific process by itself, or does it always involve drug experimentation?

So do I "visit a psychiatrist"? Then take some number of tests? How do I know the results of the tests won't simply be a reflection of my mood at the time I took them? How do I keep from inadvertently "leading the witness", i.e., shoving the doctor in whatever direction "sounds plausible" at the time?

This week has been hell for me. I think I seriously need to determine if I have any of these disorders hanging around my neck. But as I say, I'm leery of going and fucking everything up for myself in a haphazard way.

I'm scared, and avoidant, and generally putting it all off. Hi! I suck! :cheesy:

[Sesquipedalian]

It's funny how many people here think they are geniuses, but I from what I've read elsewhere here, many seem to think all INTJs fit into that category.

On a serious note, can the INTJs here who have full blown ADD explain how it manifests itself?

I can't imagine an ENTP having OCD, (though I could easily imagine ADHD/ADD)
I can't imagine an INTJ having full blown ADD, (but I could easily imagine OCD or asperger).
Insomnia and depression I could see in any type.
Well, I'm an extremely strong N, if that helps... I don't know what constitutes "full blown ADD" but I was definitely ADHD as a child and I definitely have a moderate degree of ADD now. I simply can't read anything. I had to just tell my history professor that I simply could not read the chapters. I had attempted to do so and ended up spending about 45 minutes testing different environments trying to get past the first page. The fact is, reading history books bores the life out of me, and no matter how bad I want to force myself to read and absorb it, my mind will find something much more interesting to entertain.

That being said, if I'm reading something I'm interested in, I absorb it many times faster and remember it much better than the vast majority of people. I think this is true of most people with ADD.

I don't take anything for it... My mom tried Ritalin when I was a child, but I stopped eating. Anorexia is a common side effect of Ritalin... (By the way, that's Anorexia as in "not eating", not Anorexia Nervosa the eating disorder). I was skin and bones as it was, so my mom took me off of it.

At the risk of sounding vain (and I'm just telling you this so you get the full story), the psychologist that evaluated me as a person... my ADD, my IQ, everything, essentially told my mom that I was intelligent enough that ADD wouldn't interfere with my schooling. lol, I drove my teachers crazy. They'd give us 30 stupid math problems to do. I'd have them done in about a minute and they'd ask me why I was drawing, I'd respond curtly, "I'm done, this stuff is easy!" then go back to drawing. It's proof that the school system wants you to conform. They really did get perturbed that I'd finish their stupid assignments then do whatever entertained me. I never bothered anyone else... just did my own thing.

I was about to talk about how this "among other things" led me to be home schooled by my mom.

...but then I remembered one of my "other things" and thought I'd share it...

I was very talkative as a child and somewhat impulsive. I also hadn't learned when it was appropriate to stop talking, and generally had to be told things multiple times, not because I was a naughty child (I really had a good heart and good intentions), but simply because it didn't soak in the first time and I was so engulfed in my internal world that it took me a minute to realize that 1) they were speaking to me and 2) that what they said was applicable to my life.

Anyway, our school had a very stupid policy that kids had to stop talking every so often in the cafeteria. They had "traffic lights" and green meant "talk", yellow meant "quiet down and get ready to shut your yap", and red meant "if you talk you will be disciplined". Why they had that system at an elementary school is entirely beyond me, but I'd go on talking completely unaware that their so ingeniously designed traffic system had transitioned from yellow to red.

On a frequent basis I was sent to the corner of the cafeteria. ...publicly humiliated for something I couldn't help and shouldn't have to help.

I came home very upset saying, "I'm bad... I'm bad and I can't be good." My mom was infuriated at the school, verbally flayed them for how they had treated me, criticized their asinine system, and pulled me out.

Now that quote is somewhat of a joke between us. I'll forget to do something I should've and respond that I'm bad and can't be good and so on.

Another example... I was in middle school (we had moved and I had re-entered our wonderful public school system) and in English. I was utterly bored by my English teacher so I was sketching something on the desk (in pencil... which was erasable...) For whatever reason the teacher decided to make an example of me saying, "Now THAT is a bad student." Referring to me. Of course, I wasn't a bad student academically, but she meant behaviorally... because I'd drawn on my desk... in pencil... which was easily erasable...

My mom calls them up, rips the teacher a new one for using ME as a bad example instead of another student as a good example, then pulls me out of school again. I finish the remainder of middle school at home waking up at noon every day, studying for 3 hours and doing whatever the heck I wanted afterward. I re-entered High School a year and a half later half a year ahead of my peers. Thanks for nothing public school system.

I don't think "ADD" is always a bad thing. I think it's a term that the majority of the population uses to describe unique individuals who don't learn like them. Like I mentioned above. I learn a heck of a lot faster than them when I can wake up when I want, study when I want, and move on when the material is too easy. Does that mean I have a "disorder"? I guess that depends on how you define it...

Also, I hope I don't come off as arrogant about my intelligence level. I included it because I felt it was applicable here. I don't see myself as more important or more worthy than other people because of it... I just see it as a great blessing.

Cool avatar, Sesquip!

Anyway, the phrase from one of your posts way up above, "rapid-cycling bipolar" gives me food for thought. I wonder if that's what I have... I've dismissed the idea of my being bipolar because the manics, if they are in fact there, are so damn short.

Anyway, it's a friggin maze.

What's the real way to find out what the hell you have, that doesn't involve being proactively medicated? What revolts me about medication is the whole seeming "guinea pig" aspect. I really don't like that idea. Seems like you'd be just as likely to make bad shit happen to you, as discover what bad shit you're already going through, chemically, with that route. Is diagnosis any kind of scientific process by itself, or does it always involve drug experimentation?

So do I "visit a psychiatrist"? Then take some number of tests? How do I know the results of the tests won't simply be a reflection of my mood at the time I took them? How do I keep from inadvertently "leading the witness", i.e., shoving the doctor in whatever direction "sounds plausible" at the time?

This week has been hell for me. I think I seriously need to determine if I have any of these disorders hanging around my neck. But as I say, I'm leery of going and fucking everything up for myself in a haphazard way.

I'm scared, and avoidant, and generally putting it all off. Hi! I suck! :cheesy:
Thank you! I'm glad you like it :) I love me some Photoshop.

If you find a psychiatrist who actually knows what the crap they're talking about, then yeah. We found one of the best in the area. She's amazing... She actually became a graduate professor recently. If they're good you won't be able to convince them of anything. She was no doubt of very high intelligence and despite my thorough research of Bipolar Type II and thorough conviction that I had it, she was very very careful to consider every possibility and discerned that my self-diagnosis was not accurate.

A good psychiatrist should be able to assess your current state well and make you feel at ease. Just do your research before going to one.

As for experimentation, I assure you it's not because they want to include you in some clinical trial of their favorite new medication... The fact is brain chemistry can differ drastically between different people. They had to try a lot of different drugs on me to see which ones reduced the symptoms of my Tourette Syndrome without giving other adverse effects (constant anger for one... terrible memory loss for another... etc.). If drug experimentation is done, it's only because they want to help you find which drug is most effective for you. I'm not saying it's a fun process, but it is necessary, because a brain chemistry problem isn't a simple problem that can be fixed with a single drug... like insulin for diabetics, for example.

[meanlittlechimp]

Well, I'm an extremely strong N, if that helps... I don't know what constitutes "full blown ADD" but I was definitely ADHD as a child and I definitely have a moderate degree of ADD now. I simply can't read anything. I had to just tell my history professor that I simply could not read the chapters. I had attempted to do so and ended up spending about 45 minutes testing different environments trying to get past the first page. The fact is, reading history books bores the life out of me, and no matter how bad I want to force myself to read and absorb it, my mind will find something much more interesting to entertain.


Thanks for your detailed explanation, it was helpful. I think ADHD is overprescribed by parents/doctors. Impulsivity, lack of attention, pretty much described most children. Jacking them up on adderrall on a young age is like giving them pharmaceutical cocaine.

The people I know that have serious ADHD, have trouble maintaining their thoughts and focus, even when they are interested in it. Although you can focus when you read, do you have trouble maintaining focus on the original issue in a debate?

One last question, when did your impulsivity stop? And how did your impulsivity manifest itself before it did?

[Jenny Penny]

I definitely have problems with depression and anxiety. I think this relates to having no real idea of what I want from life and, consequently, how to go about getting that.

I have tried every medication and none of them do any good.

The SSRIs make me crazy (manic?). My doctors won't diagnose me with bipolar because I do not exhibit full blown symptoms of mania. I do feel extremely unstable in my mood, although I do not think I am ever delusional about who I am and what I am capable of.

Sometimes I do feel "up" and have much more social confidence than normal. This is pretty rare, though, and usually only happens when I get adequate sleep and maybe have a stimulant like caffeine.

[Sesquipedalian]

Thanks for your detailed explanation, it was helpful. I think ADHD is overprescribed by parents/doctors. Impulsivity, lack of attention, pretty much described most children. Jacking them up on adderrall on a young age is like giving them pharmaceutical cocaine.

The people I know that have serious ADHD, have trouble maintaining their thoughts and focus, even when they are interested in it. Although you can focus when you read, do you have trouble maintaining focus on the original issue in a debate?

One last question, when did your impulsivity stop? And how did your impulsivity manifest itself before it did?
You're most welcome.

I agree about people's tendancy to run to drugs for a "quick fix". Thankfully my mom read books on how to address the special needs of special children instead of trusting a drug to "fix" her child.

Although I have a lot of funky neurological pathologies, none of them are particularly miserable anymore, with the exception of the occasional depressive episode.

I tend not to have problems focusing on the topic of a debate as far as I can remember... I mean... I'll go off on rabbit trails and such, but I usually have a purpose for what I say... I'll admit that I do prefer writing to speaking, however.

With time I've gotten slightly less compulsive... I suppose ADD and compulsivity kind of go hand in hand... I used to collect comic books, magazines, knives, coins, lots of stuff. I didn't like throwing stuff away... I still fight being a packrat, but I'm better at throwing stuff away now and I tend to only buy things that will actually perform some function in my life.

I strive for minimalism... I like to buy the best of something so I won't get bored with it and want to upgrade, and so it'll last a long time. This tends to be more expensive initially, but I'd like to think it saves me money in the long run.

Does that answer your question?... I'm exhausted right now and the ol' engine isn't running on all cylinders.

[Zilal]

I despise falling into any stereotype, but I have to admit I am a creative type and also have a long history of depression. The studies that show a mild link between the two are sort of discouraging. I don't want to be depressed, and I certainly don't think it's necessary for creativity! But there you are.

[Provoker]

Genius and Mental Disorders. Which of the following do you have?

I've not been diagnosed with any mental disorders but I do consider myself somewhere on a continuum between gifted and genius, although I strive for the latter. My closest friends are all free thinkers - it's really a deal breaker when selecting friends. In fact, beyond Myers-Briggs it is critical that those around me possess a hightened capacity and proclivity toward original thought. Anything short of this stinks of herd, of mediocrity. I'd even put up with an ESFP if there is original thought (although usually ESFP precludes the possibility of innovative thinking). If I do have a mental disorder my guess is that it is this. I suffer from hyperconsciousness. When I am out and interacting there are so many bits and pieces of information arising to the surface of consciousness that are often extremely aggressive and vile and I am forced to repress them out of decency. Wicked jokes come to mind like lightening flashes and I must hold them down out of decency. I will notice patterns when socializing like people crossing their legs when they talk to me to manipulate themselves into thinking they are more intellectual than they actually are (again this idea comes in a flash) while I am simultaneously saying or doing something else. I'm sure some of you can relate to this notion of hyperconsciousness and see that it is a source for great suffering. It is inescapable: A thought comes when it wants not when I want. "I" have virtually no say in the matter. Therefore, when in environments with an abundance of stimuli that sparks thoughts (however absurd) which arise to the surface of consciousness but must ultimately be suppressed for the sake of decency it is easy to become alienated from oneself. The upshot of this dilemma is that the goings-on inside my mind resemble something of a split-consciousness between the existential and absurd insights that come into existence on the one side and a more polite and naive consciousness that I use to attain a minimum level of coherence and decency.

[Jaycen]

The majority of the "afflictions" you listed are to my mind "excuses" for refusing to modify your own behavoir. In most cases, they are a lack of self-discipline.

No offense, but most of the time, people with these "problems" are quite aware they are behaving inappropriately. To codify and label the behavior as something beyond one's control is fallacious at best...naw, it's just lazy and pathetic. It's a way to excuse your lack of self- control/interest/desire/etc.

Suck it up and deal with it or self-medicate with recreational alcoholism/drug use like the rest of us. Sheesh.

[Linza]

Nice, Jaycen. I'm totally there with you, man.

As much as I'd like to trust psychology, it's not responsible to do so. There are people who are genuinely sick, but those are about as few and far between as we are. And I won't get MB-type elitist-- it's possible for anyone of any personality type to be mentally off. However, there's no real scientific way of deciding if someone is behaving poorly or if they're genuinely ill. As a society, we're blaming brain chemistry for our problems, doping our citizens into happiness, and telling every teenager that they're depressed and have social anxiety disorder.

That's not depression. It's called puberty. It sucks, you look awful, everyone hates you, you hate everyone, parents suck, girls suck, guys suck, school sucks, and then you finish with your horomonal horror movie and get the hell over it. It doesn't need medication.

My little brother is also an INTJ (and, as much as I hate to admit it, he's smarter than I am and should probably take over the world) however, they tell us he's got depression. Living in our current world, if your IQ were in surplus of 170 points, you'd be depressed, too. It's not a brain chemistry issue, it's the whole Effing world. And my little brother was never happier than after he stopped taking Zoloft.
Despite the people who claim expertise, we know exactly jack **** about the human brain, relative to what there is to know. It is arrogance to medicate as much and as often as American shrinks do.

</rant> Alright. That concluded, I agree with many of the others... not all INTJs are geniuses. We are pretty cool, though.

[jay c]

I'm surprised Asperger's isn't more prevalent among INTJs. Perusing some of the other discussions under 'General Psychology,' it sounds as though the Asperger's profile should fit at least 50% of us.

[Jakalwarrior]

Are we including sub clinical type stuff? I have a touch of OCD but its not anything that causes a problem in my life, is mostly just a personality quirk, so it isnt considered a disorder.

[Linza]

Perusing some of the other discussions under 'General Psychology,' it sounds as though the Asperger's profile should fit at least 50% of us.

Maybe intuition saves us from that. Instead of being categorically unable to understand the emotions of others, we're able to understand them, we just don't experience them empathetically. Or perhaps Aspergers only manifests in InTJs, where intuition is only slightly expressed, and every other trait is overt and uncompromised. *shrug*

[knock7]

I think INTJs are in a unique position to do objective self analysis and are more aware of our flaws than the average person. We could have the same number of flaws as any other MBTI, but we are more aware of them.

Having said that, what is normal? While there are legitimate cases of mental illness, I think our society is very quick to diagnose and pull out the pills as a solution to problems. If you are sad, maybe a pill isn't the answer.

I have been told I have this disorder ( OCD, etc) or that, but I am fine. Everybody thinks they are a psychologist when you have a few harmless quirks. I personally think therapy is overrated and pretty much useless unless you are psychotic.