INTJs in fiction.

[Aleph-One]

Good, fully developed INTJs rarely show up in the movies. *When INTJs do show up, they're usually of the "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die" ilk, and that annoys me. *This might be a good place to track down INTJ characters who aren't Emperor Ming (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). *Of course most of the posts in this thread will be open to contention, so arguing over whether the character is an INTJ or not is as much a part of this discussion as anything else.

I'll start with one of the best INTJ film/fiction characters ever.
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[Jezebel]

I can't claim this list is original, but here are a few more alleged fictional INTJs:

Dr House (House)
Frank Pembleton (Homicide: Life on the Street)
Gandalf the Grey/Mithrandir the White (Lord of the Rings)
Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation)
Miranda Hobbes (Sex and the City)
Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs/Hannibal)
Professor Severus Snape (Harry Potter)

[radioactivez0r]

Not totally related, but Homicide was an amazing show, and Andre Braugher's performance as Pembleton was unreal. To keep on topic, I would say that Munch was a better INTJ - unless you count Pembleton's stroke being a result of his emotional explosiveness.

[wolf]

Hannibal is probably one of the two most realistic portrayals of an INTJ I've ever seen, aside from some James Bond supervilains.

The only positive strongly INTJ protagonist that I can think of off the top of my head is the character George Smiley from the John le Carre cold-war spy novels. The BBC produced a couple of the books in the form of a 7-part series then a 6-part series for another book a few years later, both starring Alec Guinness as George Smiley. It's very consistent throughout because it closely follows the novels. I'm not certain, but I would expect that the George Smiley character is based on a real person (or very similar real people) and not on idealized bits of many different people as is often the case in fiction...

[Tarrick]

I'd say the Jason Bourne is a INTJ. Considering this attitude in general, the I is definite and his analytical thinking pegs him as a NT. Given all that, I would also submit that his methodicalness is indicative of being J.

Any arguments?

[kidchameleon]

concerning Law and Order: although I love Munch, i think he has more a genuine emotional draw into cases that really might indicate him outside of the INTJ category. How about the pychologist played by B.D. Wong? He's my vote, and one of my favorite characters.

[Jon]

Dr House (House)


My sister and I played the type House characters game the other day and came to the conclusion that House had to be an S, and probably an ISTP. Stacy seems the most INTJ to me.

Also, Ayn Rand characters and Mr. Fantastic. Comic characters are kind of inconsistent at times, though.

[Apococlock]

I can only hope that someone as awesome as House is an INTJ... he certainly acts like one if that's any help.

Stubborn, always thinks he's right, leads from where not many people can see him, ect ect...

[Rei]

May I mention Mr. Darcy (no I haven't read Pride and Prejudice yet, yes I've been living under a rock all these years) so i can't really say much. But from what I hear, he was a great character.

Which brings me to say, it's easier to be a INTJ guy than an INTJ gal.
*sigh*

[Tarrick]

Which brings me to say, it's easier to be a INTJ guy than an INTJ gal.
*sigh*

That's because everyone expects that guys can act like we do. It's a rather big shock when a girl does it. But you already knew that.

Also, I believe that Sherlock Holmes would be a very good example of a INTJ in fiction.

[Rei]

Let me just post a list I ripped off typelogic.com

Cassius (Julius Caesar)
Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice)
Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books)
Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis
Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation)
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet)
George Smiley, John le Carre's master spy
Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs)

I don't care that I'm repeating names... don't tell me... :thinking:

[Cato the Younger]

Dr House (House)


My sister and I played the type House characters game the other day and came to the conclusion that House had to be an S, and probably an ISTP. Stacy seems the most INTJ to me.

Also, Ayn Rand characters and Mr. Fantastic. Comic characters are kind of inconsistent at times, though.

I was going to mentions Ayn Rand's characters. Of course, she was in fact an INTJ herself. She gave her characters many heroic qualities, though.

[Jon]

I was going to mentions Ayn Rand's characters. *Of course, she was in fact an INTJ herself. *She gave her characters many heroic qualities, though.

Speaking of Ayn Rand, it might be worth mentioning Bioshock. The game is essentially Ayn Rand come to digital-life. One of the antagonists is called Andrew Ryan, and he's created the dystopia that the application of Ayn Rand's thinking could eventually lead to. I haven't played much of it myself, so I don't know how accurate the claim is, but chances are that he's an INTJ, too.

[Cato the Younger]

That's interesting. I personally want to install Bioshock on my computer since it has secureware. Such an evil program.

[TeleportThis]

I would say Malcolm, from Malcolm in the Middle in and INTJ. Anyone else ever watch that show?

[Rei]

Once or twice...
Never thought of him as an INTJ though...

[TeleportThis]

What would you have pinned him as?

Apparently I'm not as well versed in this personality typing as everyone else on here seems to be. I'm finding it odd that you are all like "oh I work with a QTFM and blah, blah, blah" (and yes I know that's not a real type). I definitely don't know enough about the different types for me to be able to that.

I was pretty much going by this criteria when mentioning him:
Stubborn, always thinks he's right, leads from where not many people can see him, ect ect...

[Rei]

I don't know... I don't think I've watched enough of malcom in the middle to type him exactly.
I'm new to this myself. *Sometimes I mix up the indicators a little...

If I HAD to try to type him... I'd say ISTJ or ISFJ

Guido had a good and short explination on how to type people in another thread...
*hopes the quoting works here...*

Who said anything about it being voluntary? hahaha. Practice trying to place people, it's a great skill to have. The more you do it, the better you get at it. Also, the test is flawed in the sense that it assumes the person is honest. I've had a couple friends who thought the test was BS but it's because their retarded F was getting in the way. They were deciding things like 'I'm an extravert and I'm not judgmental' because they felt it was better to be like that. Thus, skewing their results since they were answering as what they thought they should be rather than what they actually were. Naturally, I tell them they're wrong and point them in the right place.

It gets a little tricky with the Fs, but for the most part I find the following pretty accurate:

I - E ) easy enough to tell :o Whether they prefer to unwind with or without people.
N - S ) Facts or theories? Anyone who would enjoy talking about personality types, seems to be an N and those who don't care seem to be Ss. This is true for about all 15 people I know who I've tried to talk to about this stuff.
T - F ) Are they smart? or dumb. It can sure feel like that sometimes :X I find this one difficult to put into words since I don’t relate to the whole feeling thing so well. But generally, this isn’t hard to figure out.
J - P ) Js are aggressive with their conclusions, while open with their theories. Ps are aggressive with their theories and are open ended with their conclusions.

Problem with this though, is that it's fairly generic. Some types won't work so well with using these criteria. The best way by far, is to take a couple guesses, and read some profiles. I have yet to meet a person who doesn't fit into one of the profiles by at like 80 percent.

I can't stand being controlled either... if I feel someone is trying to control me, I will almost go out of my way to show them that they can't... so long as that in itself isn't another form of control. This comes from having a problem with authority me thinks :D

I've noticed that the two siblings of a family that are close in age tend to be very different personality wise and have either 3 or all 4 traits reversed from each other. Like my ESFP sister who's well... an ESFP :o

[brookgarden]

definitely severus snape

[Doppelbock]

Gandalf is definitely teh kewlest fictional INTJ.

Hmmm, maybe when people start to piss me off I'll just grow about 7 feet tall and then say in an ominous booming voice: "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."

DB

[The Rose]

Dr House (House)

My sister and I played the type House characters game the other day and came to the conclusion that House had to be an S, and probably an ISTP. ...
I have 2 ISTPs in my home.
Both of them are people-pleasers.
They care about being cool and accepted.
House doesn't.
Also they're very playful and happy-go-lucky.
(Do people still use that phrase anymore?)

I think because House always writes out a list, he must be an "N".
"S"s have those lists in their head.
They don't need to write it down.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is an INTJ or maybe an INTP.
"P" would be likely because of all the unconventional means he uses to accomplish his ends -
very outside the box.

One thing I have noticed about fictional characters is that they are almost impossible
to figure out because they're - well - fictional.
The writers can manipulate them to behave any way they want them to
without true adherance to actual human behavioral patterns.

The 16 types break into 4 major groups NT, NF, SP, and SJ.
In my opinion, House behaves most like an NT.

[The Rose]

May I mention Mr. Darcy (no I haven't read Pride and Prejudice yet, yes I've been living under a rock all these years) so i can't really say much. *But from what I hear, he was a great character.

Which brings me to say, it's easier to be a INTJ guy than an INTJ gal.
*sigh*I read P & P twice this year and I had the hardest time deciding if Darcy was an INTJ or an ISTJ.
So many of the qualities that made him a good landlord were ISTJ qualities.

But as I said, writers can make their characters do whatever they want without the constraint of type.

[Rei]

But as I said, writers can make their characters do whatever they want without the constraint of type.


Well good writers make their characters pretty consistant.
Besides, even if you get a horribly developed character, you can still type them to some extent. *The worst you can get is borderline everything *:-?

7th HP book Spoiler:
By the way, I was really fond of Snape's character. **sigh*
Why'd he have to die **cry*

[Rei]

I wouldn't be surprised if he is an INTJ or maybe an INTP.
"P" would be likely because of all the unconventional means he uses to accomplish his ends -
very outside the box.


House is very closure oriented. He gets very agitated when he can't figure somethng out. P's are more laid back than J's. He plans the tests he does before hand, not as he gets the results of the previous test. I'm pretty sure he's a J.

As for N or S, I really can't tell. I think he's an iN because he trusts his gut a lot. (please tell me if I just mixed something up there)

So I definately think House is an INTJ

[The Rose]

You're probably right.

[Jon]

House gets all of his information by sensing. He looks at the symptoms and meaning in the data he has. If he doesn't know what is making someone sick, he'll send someone out to search their home for more data. Most of his team does the intuiting for him when they propose the theories that he, himself shoots down. He can sense the bigger picture because he's a medical genius, not because he intuits his answers. That's why I'd say S.

The typelogic ISTP description (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) sounds exactly like House.

But I do agree with you, Rose, about the difficulties typing characters written by multiple people.

[Rei]

House gets all of his information by sensing. He looks at the symptoms and meaning in the data he has. If he doesn't know what is making someone sick, he'll send someone out to search their home for more data. Most of his team does the intuiting for him when they propose the theories that he, himself shoots down. He can sense the bigger picture because he's a medical genius, not because he intuits his answers. That's why I'd say S.

The typelogic ISTP description (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) sounds exactly like House.

But I do agree with you, Rose, about the difficulties typing characters written by multiple people.


You know what? *I thought about that, I don't know why I decided against it though...
Guess you're right. *That's probably he gets so frustrated, being a doctor is so much easier with inuition.

[Guido]

I would still guess INTJ just because of his 'arrogance' with his results and his biting comments. All ISTPs I've known don't tend to do this. Also, ISTPs aren't usually too academic and probably wouldn’t end up being a doctor, again looking at the 3 ISTPs I know. Actually... one of them is going to be a lawyer, and he'd probably end up being quite good at it if he can get through the schooling. Only reason he's in law school is because he has no idea wtf to do with his life.

You're logic is very sound for the ISTP argument though... so I have no idea. I blame the writers :D

[Tarrick]

I would put more stock in House being a INTsomething then a ISTP because he also has often confronted people and picked them apart. This part of his abilities would extend into both the medical field and dealing with people the way he does.

[Guido]

I would also place Uchiha Sasuke (from Naruto) and Kuchiki Byakuya (from Bleach) as INTJs. Yay for anime!

...

Don't judge!!

[Sohrab]

I know this is off topic, but did any of you winced the same way Hannibal Lecter did when he heard the bad note in the opening sequence of "Red Dragon"? It is kind of fascinating and scary to see my reaction on his face at exactly the same time.

[Guido]

I did wince... never made the connection until now. I was actually pretty pissed at that retard who was screwing up the song... oh man...

I bet he tasted like chicken :D

[Capwolf]

House is a lot more physical than most N types. He's a runner (and not in the Spartan simplify-my-life-and-get-fit way that you sometimes see in Ns - he actually seems to enjoy it), he plays multiple instruments, he rides a motorcycle. He enjoys practical jokes. As Jon said, he notices the things around him, doesn't miss much that can be taken in through his senses.

Wanting to figure things out is absolutely not a J trait; it has nothing to do with closure. If curious, Ps will pursue knowledge as far as it goes, but we don't necessarily have to put it into practice - like when House wanted to figure out what killed a patient after that patient's death, when the case was unlikely to be something he'd see again, or when he was obsessed with the one case he couldn't figure out years ago. That's something I relate to strongly, and I am definitely not J.

He doesn't have to be J to get things done when all three of his employees are. (Or at least seem to be.)


Quotes about ISTPs that relate to House:

From Careers for ISTP Personality Types (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.):
Interested in how and why things work
Do not function well in regimented, structured environments; they will either feel stifled or become intensely bored
Constantly gather facts about their environment and store them away
Have an excellent ability to apply logic and reason to their immense store of facts to solve problems or discover how things work
Usually able to master theory and abstract thinking, but don't particularly like dealing with it unless they see a practical application
Excellent "trouble-shooters", able to quickly find solutions to a wide variety of practical problems
Usually quite self-confident

From Typelogic (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.):
When they do actually verbalize, ISTPs are masters of the one-liner, often showing flashes of humor in the most tense situations; this can result in their being seen as thick-skinned or tasteless.
...
Working as paramedics or firefighters can fulfill the ISTP need to live on the edge; they are at their best in a crisis, where their natural disregard for rules and authority structures allows them to focus on and tackle the emergency at hand in the most effective way.

[Rei]

I know this is off topic, but did any of you winced the same way Hannibal Lecter did when he heard the bad note in the opening sequence of "Red Dragon"? It is kind of fascinating and scary to see my reaction on his face at exactly the same time.

never watched it yet
*damn I really have to watch that movie*

[Jezebel]

I've never seen House, but this article might be interesting to those discussing whether he is an ISTP or INTx. It compares the differences/similarities between the types and how they can be mistaken for each other:

When does an ISTP look like an INTP or INTJ? (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).
Of all the Artisan types, ISTPs most look like and most often identify with the Rational temperament, often reporting preferences for INTP or for INTJ on assessments....

[Capwolf]

Thanks for that, Jezebel - interesting article, and helped clarify some things for me. (I firmly believe that House is a Sensor, but he does appear to be NT.)

[lollercancer]

damn guys, cmon!

"Odysseus, the mastermind like zeus."

Our favorite pragmatist who has, count em, two epics written about him!

[Tarrick]

damn guys, cmon!

"Odysseus, the mastermind like zeus."

Our favorite pragmatist who has, count em, two epics written about him!

Point to you. Yeah Odysseus was certainly a very interesting person and probably a INTJ to boot.

[deicruxified]

please have them verified... some i have spotted are:

1. kenshin himura (battousai and the new kenshin) - obviously an introvert, a good strategist
2. william of baskerville (the name of the rose) - nice analytical thinking
3. jorge (same book) - not sure though but he's like hannibal lecter

[Rei]

hum...
What makes you think Kenshine Himura is a TJ? *He seems to react a lot on emotion.

Then again it might just be that guilt that never goes away *:-/
But that would also indicate he is a feeler, thinkers never get that bogged down. We'd eventually reason out of it.

[lollercancer]

while we're projecting ourselves onto fictional characters:

BATMAN, BRUCE WAYNE BABY

[Rei]

Yeah...
I was just procrastinating, and taking this superhero quiz and got batman...
Saw this cool picture. I just had to put it up. ;D

[Capwolf]

I would've pegged Batman as an E - although maybe a frustrated E - because he chose an ESFP persona as his cover (although that is the opposite of INTJ), he's extremely authoritarian, and he seems to need a partner at all times. I've also considered F, because sometimes he can be so rigid about his values that he's illogical and impractical - but that might be a J attribute, not just an F(J) one. (I've been known to confuse F & J.)

INTJ is definitely a possibility, and some of the people who create his stories do seem to be aiming for an INTJ hero. I think it'd be hard to find any better candidates for INTJ status [who aren't exaggeratedly evil] in superhero comics, anyway; by its nature, superheroics would seem to lend itself to SP or FJ.

Maybe Magneto? He's sometimes not a villain.

[Rei]

I would've pegged Batman as an E - although maybe a frustrated E - because he chose an ESFP persona as his cover (although that is the opposite of INTJ), he's extremely authoritarian, and he seems to need a partner at all times. I've also considered F, because sometimes he can be so rigid about his values that he's illogical and impractical - but that might be a J attribute, not just an F(J) one. (I've been known to confuse F & J.)

INTJ is definitely a possibility, and some of the people who create his stories do seem to be aiming for an INTJ hero. I think it'd be hard to find any better candidates for INTJ status [who aren't exaggeratedly evil] in superhero comics, anyway; by its nature, superheroics would seem to lend itself to SP or FJ.

Maybe Magneto? He's sometimes not a villain.

Hum. Regarding batman.
F or T is really hard to tell. He seems to take his F and logically apply it. Needing a partner is not necessarily an E attribute. I's like to have people around too, it's just that we only like certain people. Don't know the comics/shows/whatever else enough to be able to tell what his cover is.

And yes, I think Magneto is a definate possibility

[Frank]

It is difficult to labels fictional characters but
Batman
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or Odysseys
But please forgive me for being long winded …
To take an idea from Carl Sagan. Most INTJs characters are portrayed as bad guys Dr. No, Hannibal Lector, etc. Not only because it is interesting but because of they must be diametrically opposed to the Hero. And all examples of heroes maintain the status quo. Example: Bad guy develops plan to change world, good guy stops him. The good guy never comes up with ideas to change the world he only tries to stop them, hence the maintains the status quo. ( please feel free to try to find a fictional hero who doesn’t because I’ve given up) The only exception to heroes that try to upset the status quo would be those based on real life people, like Martin Luther King or Gandhi. My point is that INTJ’s by their very nature like to analyze a thing and try to improve on it and therefore they make poor heroes.

[Frank]

Opps I meant Odysseus , spell check ;)

Oh and by the way Batman must be an INTJ, I love him so. Besides every one knows that the Frank Miller’s version is the best, where he could be argued to be one of us.
ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!!
Fifty cool points goes out to whoever knows where this quote originally comes from.

[Jezebel]

ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US!!!
Fifty cool points goes out to whoever knows where this quote originally comes from.

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[anul]

Dexter from the Showtime show Dexter seems totally INTJ. Although when they show flashbacks to his teenage years he seems totally feeling.

[Rei]

It is difficult to labels fictional characters but
Batman
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
or Odysseys
But please forgive me for being long winded …
To take an idea from Carl Sagan. Most INTJs characters are portrayed as bad guys Dr. No, Hannibal Lector, etc. Not only because it is interesting but because of they must be diametrically opposed to the Hero. And all examples of heroes maintain the status quo. Example: Bad guy develops plan to change world, good guy stops him. The good guy never comes up with ideas to change the world he only tries to stop them, hence the maintains the *status quo. ( please feel free to try to find a fictional hero who doesn’t because I’ve given up) The only exception to heroes that try to upset the status quo would be those based on real life people, like Martin Luther King or Gandhi. My point is that INTJ’s by their very nature like to analyze a thing and try to improve on it and therefore they make poor heroes.

V!

As in from V for Vendetta. Unless you want to consider him the bad guy.

[Guido]

Yeah... if there was a stereotypical personality type out there that would conceive some kind of master plan while being cold and calculating, it'd be INTJ. This makes sense actually. If someone was smart enough to take over the world, it's be us :D hahaha. There are some good INTJs though, and I just thought of one. Anyone seen Hot Fuzz? I say Nicholas Angel is a big INTJ.

[Capwolf]

Dexter from the Showtime show Dexter seems totally INTJ. Although when they show flashbacks to his teenage years he seems totally feeling.
I think this is a case of mental illness confounding results: he has a diminished ability to feel or understand his emotions, and so he can appear T although he's not necessarily a logical guy. Personally, I'd call him a sociopathic ISFJ.

I/E: as a kid, his closest relationship seemed to be with his brother; now, he can’t share his inner life, but he doesn’t really pine for self-revelation or for more friends. S/N: he does police work - but as the resident blood spatter expert, he reconstructs actual physical events to a greater extent than most detectives, basing his work on experience/knowledge and close observation of physical detail. He's also extremely good at using his body, and he doesn't seem terribly creative. F/T: I’d say F because a very important part of his motivation (given that he considers killing to be a basic need) is to do what his father told him was right; and when doubt about his father set in, he also doubted everything he’d taught him. Doesn’t seem like T thought processes to me. And, at least in the books, he seems midly obsessed with the idea that he's flawed or evil. Which might be true, but would probably be more easily rationalized away by a T type. J/P: he likes to have everything neat and all ends tied off, and manages it – I think this is probably the most obvious one.

[deicruxified]

hum...
What makes you think Kenshine Himura is a TJ? *He seems to react a lot on emotion.

Then again it might just be that guilt that never goes away *:-/
But that would also indicate he is a feeler, thinkers never get that bogged down. *We'd eventually reason out of it.
the new kenshin i think is a feeler coz then he wants to make up for all his bad deeds in the past. the kenshin in the rurouni kenshin (when he was still a battousai) kinda confuses me a bit coz he seems an intj there. feelings just sparked to him late when tomoe seduced him (love indeed is a weakness)... i just think so... but then again, i guess i would have to watch the film again.

here's some fictional characters i got from To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ... the movie, the godfather, is one of my favorites. the site says the following are intj's:

1. tom hagen
2. michael corleone
3. vito corleone

then oren-ishii of kill bill

what do you think?

[deicruxified]

Yeah... if there was a stereotypical personality type out there that would conceive some kind of master plan while being cold and calculating, it'd be INTJ. This makes sense actually. If someone was smart enough to take over the world, it's be us :D hahaha. There are some good INTJs though, and I just thought of one. Anyone seen Hot Fuzz? I say Nicholas Angel is a big INTJ.
a psych student blockmate of mine once said that intj's can either be bad or good geniuses... lol then i got from another website that god is an intj lol now that's heart warming hehehe

[Frank]

;D :thumbsup:
Jezebel is awarded 50 cool points and since a moving picture is worth a thousand words Jezebel has a grand total of 50,000 cool points.

(cool points are not redeemable for cash)

[Frank]

It is difficult to labels fictional characters but
Batman
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
or Odysseys
But please forgive me for being long winded …
To take an idea from Carl Sagan. Most INTJs characters are portrayed as bad guys Dr. No, Hannibal Lector, etc. Not only because it is interesting but because of they must be diametrically opposed to the Hero. And all examples of heroes maintain the status quo. Example: Bad guy develops plan to change world, good guy stops him. The good guy never comes up with ideas to change the world he only tries to stop them, hence the maintains the status quo. ( please feel free to try to find a fictional hero who doesn’t because I’ve given up) The only exception to heroes that try to upset the status quo would be those based on real life people, like Martin Luther King or Gandhi. My point is that INTJ’s by their very nature like to analyze a thing and try to improve on it and therefore they make poor heroes.

V!

As in from V for Vendetta. Unless you want to consider him the bad guy.

;)
V is a very good idea. He is definitely an anarchist like hero. But V is trying to restore the world to something more like it was, in a sense he is trying to return the world to the status quo. I was thinking of a visionary who changed our world into something better but not repairing a run away fascist state.
I guess you could argue for Robin Hood being a hero that changes the status quo yet he is probably a amalgam of real life people because the Robin Hood Character is found in many cultures, Zorro for example.

[Frank]

LOL :D

I thought you meant Dexter from Dexter's laboratory.

But he doesn't seem very logical. Though he plans killing people meticoulusly I believe it is more because a ritualistic catharsis, He kills to make himsefl feel better. further more he would change his modus oprindi more often if it wasn't for the ritual aspect.

[Rei]

;)
V is a very good idea. He is definitely an anarchist like hero. But V is trying to restore the world to something more like it was, in a sense he is trying to return the world to the status quo. I was thinking of a visionary who changed our world into something better but not repairing a run away fascist state.
I guess you could argue for Robin Hood being a hero that changes the status quo yet he is probably a amalgam of real life people because the Robin Hood Character is found in many cultures, Zorro for example.

True...
Bart Simpson? *Could be...
It's hard though, because the goal of most stories are to fix the problem and return things to the way they were.
Perhaps Vincent in Gattaca...
and any other character that plays the underdog in a movie... usually those teenage atheletic team/group/troubled highschool movies. (eg. Drumline, Take the Lead etc)

[Frank]

True...
Bart Simpson? Could be...
It's hard though, because the goal of most stories are to fix the problem and return things to the way they were.
Perhaps Vincent in Gattaca...
and any other character that plays the underdog in a movie... usually those teenage atheletic team/group/troubled highschool movies. (eg. Drumline, Take the Lead etc)

What Bart Simpson? Now you're just guessing ;)
As for the underdog Vincent ... ... Uhmm..... .... he is the classic under achiever and very driven by a vision, but that vision is not very abstract at all. He wants to go to space, that is very extroverted and concrete thinking, scientiest are INTJ not astronauts.

Well any ways the problem with movies are that they all to often use flat characters. Not that Gattaca is bad, in fact I like that movie but it doesn't provide nearly enough information to validate the INTJ mantle :D in fact Many of the traits you could argue either way. Very few movies have healthy fleshed out characters most are instruments to tell a story's grand message.
Fixed coding

[Frank]

Oops Sorry i forgot what we where talking about Rei.

Though Bart Simpson, is a rogue, he is not really a hero, people are amused by him, he is a court jester not a King.

And Vincent is not really for changing the world he just whants is fair share in the world, the same with the Jock example. They do not seek to improve the world.

Trust me give up Rei the hero who doesn't maintain the status guo doesn't exsist, I gave up on that long ago. :(

[iamnotspock]

Frank, you are right. The antagonist always drives the plot of a story by doing something evil. The hero then struggles to defeat him and save the world (read, keep things the way the reader is comfortable with). That is fiction writing 101.

As for the INTJ rarely being the hero, writers are taught that a cold rational hero doesn't appeal to most readers or viewers. You are supposed to create a likable hero which means one that is emotionally appealing to the masses of non-INTJ's. Moreover, the hero is supposed to resist the call to action initially, meaning they stumble into their role, rather than planning it out over the long run in INTJ fashion. So, no INTJ heros.

But Sherlock Holmes is one of the greatest fictional heros ever created. And he doesn't have a drop of emotion in him. Same for BatMan. And both are fairly methodical, logical, systems type guys. Definitely INTJ candidates. So, the conventional wisdom about what makes a great hero is wrong.

[Rei]

Trust me give up Rei the hero who doesn't maintain the status guo doesn't exsist, I gave up on that long ago. *:(

Give up? GIVE UP?!!
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! :'(

You're probably right... but I'll keep thinking/looking :thumbsup:

[cielo market]

The narrator/main character in Love is a Fallacy definitely an INTJ.

A hilarious short story, worth the read:
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I went about it, as in all things, systematically. I gave her a course in logic. It happened that I, as a law student, was taking a course in logic myself, so I had all the facts at my fingertips. “Poll’,” I said to her when I picked her up on our next date, “tonight we are going over to the Knoll and talk.”

“Oo, terrif,” she replied. One thing I will say for this girl: you would go far to find another so agreeable.

We went to the Knoll, the campus trysting place, and we sat down under an old oak, and she looked at me expectantly. “What are we going to talk about?” she asked.

“Logic.”

She thought this over for a minute and decided she liked it. “Magnif,” she said.

“Logic,” I said, clearing my throat, “is the science of thinking. Before we can think correctly, we must first learn to recognize the common fallacies of logic. These we will take up tonight.”

“Wow-dow!” she cried, clapping her hands delightedly.


Keep in mind, this was written in 1951. C'mon, I know you have 5 mins.

[qwerty]

Going with Deicruxified on this one - my favourite character is Michael Corleone from the godfather. Calm cool and in control


All my life I kept trying to go up in society. Where everything higher up was legal. But the higher I go, the crookeder it becomes. Where the hell does it end?

[mind_wander]

Dr House (House)


My sister and I played the type House characters game the other day and came to the conclusion that House had to be an S, and probably an ISTP. Stacy seems the most INTJ to me.

Also, Ayn Rand characters and Mr. Fantastic. Comic characters are kind of inconsistent at times, though.
I talked to my professor on this one about Dr. House, it seems more leading towards ENTJ. He's more the extrovert because he needed to bounce the ideas off of someone or else he is in denial.

How about Morpheus from Matrix?
He seems like an INTJ or ENTJ. Very smart, like to see the whole picture and pieces back things together as one.

[OneBadMother]

Frank, you are right. The antagonist always drives the plot of a story by doing something evil. The hero then struggles to defeat him and save the world (read, keep things the way the reader is comfortable with). That is fiction writing 101.

As for the INTJ rarely being the hero, writers are taught that a cold rational hero doesn't appeal to most readers or viewers. You are supposed to create a likable hero which means one that is emotionally appealing to the masses of non-INTJ's. Moreover, the hero is supposed to resist the call to action initially, meaning they stumble into their role, rather than planning it out over the long run in INTJ fashion. So, no INTJ heros.

Very true. I was in a screenwriting class once, and my hero was accused of being too smart for a sophomore in high school. He was also more or less in control of all of his actions, with the main point of conflict coming from a sort of power struggle between him and another character. I bet that the fact that he and the main female character didn't get together didn't help any.

[AJ]

Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment.

[HarleyQuinn]

The vampire character of Ivy in the Rachel Morgan series by Kim Harrison could be regarded as an INTJ.

Introverted to an extent (open with some friends) but capable of going out only if it's a close friend.

She kind of straddles the line of sensing and intuition so this could go either way. Being vampiric, she definitely goes by her senses but also trusts what her gut says in regards to reading people/situations.

Overwhelmingly thinking. Rachel makes the comment that roughly paraphrased, "She'd write out steps on how to use the bathroom if possible." Ivy is constantly shown writing out plans for any activity/mission complete with step by step guidelines and further steps in case something unexpected (or expected in Ivy's case) occurs.

Ivy is prone to feeling (vampire again) but leaves the room in mid-conversation to avoid discussing her feelings (sound familiar?) and usually does so in an abrupt manner or if forced to talk about them, she becomes heated and still tries to leave quickly after.

Definitely a judging, as Ivy rarely shows emotion except to her relationship with Skimmer, Kisten, or in particular Rachel.

I'd say Ivy's either an INTJ or ISTJ depending on the weight put towards the N/S.

[toonia]

Professor Ian Hood from Eleventh Hour (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.(TV_series))

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While he is highly analytical and objective, his intuitive drive and flashes of insight are unmistakable.

"Eleventh Hour is a four part British television series developed by Granada Television for ITV by writer Stephen Gallagher. It follows the adventures of Professor Ian Hood (played by Patrick Stewart), Special Advisor to the government's Joint Sciences Committee, who troubleshoots threats stemming from or targeting "scientific endeavour." He is joined by Rachel Young (played by Ashley Jensen), a Special Branch operative who acts primarily as his bodyguard, as Hood has made powerful enemies through his work. " Wikipedia

[toonia]

Thanks for that, Jezebel - interesting article, and helped clarify some things for me. (I firmly believe that House is a Sensor, but he does appear to be NT.)
Read this description of ISTP. It nails House to the wall...

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ISTPs are equally difficult to understand in their need for personal space, which in turn has an impact on their relationships with others. They need to be able to "spread out"--both physically and psychologically--which generally implies encroaching to some degree on others, especially if they decide that something of someone else's is going to become their next project. (They are generally quite comfortable, however, with being treated the same way they treat others--at least in this respect.) But because they need such a lot of flexibility to be as spontaneous as they feel they must be, they tend to become as inflexible as the most rigid J when someone seems to be threatening their lifestyle (although they usually respond with a classic SP rage which is yet another vivid contrast to their "dormant," impassive, detached mode). These territorial considerations are usually critical in relationships with ISTPs; communication also tends to be a key issue, since they generally express themselves non-verbally. When they do actually verbalize, ISTPs are masters of the one-liner, often showing flashes of humor in the most tense situations; this can result in their being seen as thick-skinned or tasteless.

[jtskinner]

Your forgetting the most famous INTJ: Satan. ;D

[Gabrielle]

Raistlin Majere from Dragonlance. He's an INTJ to extremist. Yey Raist!
Artemis Entreri from Forgotten Realms.

I think House is right in the cusp. A lot of people seem to be confused about him... and to be honest, so am I. I identify with him a lot, but I definitely can't have people around me ALL the time, I'll go nuts.

[thecraig]

I talked to my professor on this one about Dr. House, it seems more leading towards ENTJ. He's more the extrovert because he needed to bounce the ideas off of someone or else he is in denial.

How about Morpheus from Matrix?
He seems like an INTJ or ENTJ. Very smart, like to see the whole picture and pieces back things together as one.

1. I don't think House's use of other people as sounding boards in any way rules him out as an INTJ. We are excellent brain stormers. He doesn't seek people out for "companionship". People are a means to an end to him.

2. I favor him as an introvert because he often retreats to solitude to think. His "freindships" are very limmited. His closest freind appears to be Dr. wilson but House even keeps him at arm's length and their freindship is often a competition of sorts.

[Paul V]

Addison Payne from the webcomic (and soon to be movie) Last Blood:

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He is a vampire that could very well plot (and succeed) at destroying the world, yet he is willing to give up his life (and face 65 years of blood-hunger pains) to protect humans. If you bother to read the entire webcomic from beggining to the current page (something I deeply recommend), you'll see this clearly. Famous quotes from the webcomic that paint him as an INTJ:

Actual title of a comic page: "Addison Payne is never wrong."

Guy: "How did you know that?" Addison Payne: "BECAUSE I'M ADDISON FUCKING PAYNE! Now stop wasting our time!"

Guy: "Addison Payne!" Addison Payne: "We just bought you five minutes."

[Henry]

To take an idea from Carl Sagan. Most INTJs characters are portrayed as bad guys Dr. No, Hannibal Lector, etc. Not only because it is interesting but because of they must be diametrically opposed to the Hero. And all examples of heroes maintain the status quo. Example: Bad guy develops plan to change world, good guy stops him. The good guy never comes up with ideas to change the world he only tries to stop them, hence the maintains the status quo. ( please feel free to try to find a fictional hero who doesn’t because I’ve given up) The only exception to heroes that try to upset the status quo would be those based on real life people, like Martin Luther King or Gandhi. My point is that INTJ’s by their very nature like to analyze a thing and try to improve on it and therefore they make poor heroes.

Hummm...I would be more satisfied if you were to qualify this with "In commercial art", as you're absolutely right in that respect.

But in authentic art, that is, art created out of a need for expression and not primarily out of a profit motive, the hero's journey is substantially different. Very often, his primary role is to change society, to bring back the boon, or to save it from itself. See my avatar, Luke Skywalker, William Wallace, etc. If he doesn't find the boon, then it isn't really an authentically heroic journey, its a story most rationally interpreted through a Marxist literary analysis.

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Most notably

"6. The Ultimate Boon
The hero is now ready to obtain that which he has set out, an item or new awareness that, once he returns, will benefit the society that he has left."



Personally, I think we're often portrayed as villans because we make such good ones, and because we scare the shit out of dumber and more needy people. Few other types would have the IQ or balls to go strongly against the grain of popular opinion with any sort of success.

[HarleyQuinn]

Rewatching the movie "Seven"...

Anybody else get that feeling of INTJ from Detective Somerset?

[Paul V]

Charles Xavier, from the X-men comics. He might be an ENTJ, but my intuition tells me he's an Introvert.

[melon]

Hmm...I think the main characters from Death Note (Light, L, and Near) are INTJs. Maybe that's why I liked the show so much. :p

[INTJoe]

Jesus, stop talking about Dr. House. No way that guy is an INTJ. And thank God; I find him endlessly annoying and smarmy. I'd bet $100 he's not INTJ, but of course there is no way to prove that, as he's a fictitious character. lol.

[Henry]

Jesus, stop talking about Dr. House. No way that guy is an INTJ. And thank God; I find him endlessly annoying and smarmy. I'd bet $100 he's not INTJ, but of course there is no way to prove that, as he's a fictitious character. lol.

I have him as ISTJ with an agitated depression.

[OneBadMother]

Hmm...I think the main characters from Death Note (Light, L, and Near) are INTJs. Maybe that's why I liked the show so much. :p

They're definitely all NTs. Near is INTJ, but I'm not so sure about Light and L.

[Merle]

This thread is old, but I wanted to resurrect it:)
Anyone read 'Miss Smilla's Feeling For Snow'....I think Smilla is definately an INTJ...she's one of my favourite characters...
I mentioned elsewhere I also think Admiral Cain in BSG is an INTJ...maybe an ENTJ...but I want to claim her...she's not a socialiser lol...
My favourite book of all time, and my favourite character in it: Madame Merle in Henry James' 'The Portrait of a Lady'... I think she's INTJ...she's certainly the mastermind.

[Antares]

definitely severus snape

I'm always under the impression that the young Tom Riddle was an INTJ.

Your forgetting the most famous INTJ: Satan. ;D

:o I've heard that God is the ultimately INTJ. I don't think it's easy for INTJ's to be fictional heroes... I mean... Anakin and Luke Skywalker would make better heroes by far. Is it just me, or are most heroes xxFx's?

[DeadSpace]

L was, L would direct his gaze elsewhere...unless studying the person he was talking to....or was talking to him. He tended to talk to the table, his toes, the computer moniters more than to people. Small habits when he was thinking, distanced look, didn't care how he appeared to others...didn't care at all how others saw him. Always choosing a rational path(at least to him) regardless of feelings involved in those around him. They did an excellent job on that anime. all kinds of little habits thrown in for almost all the characters.
Edit: Thought of how i rooted for light...but identified with L...was a very torn viewer :\

[ginandsour]

Why Snape?

(I've read all the books and he was always my favorite character)

[Jgib5328]

I think Faramir from LOTR is an INTJ. He seems reserved and he is definitely introspective. With his powers of Westernesse, he has an incredibly well developed intuition, almost to the point where he can read minds. The other 2 don't require much explanation.

House is an INTP. I don't see how people think he is an S type. He is unconventional, obviously deeply intuitive enough to solve pretty much every problem and he can read people like a book. Don't forget his complete disregard for the rules. He is def not a J, he doesn't think about the future, he is disorganized, he is unplanned ("Start the treatment and let's see what happens").

Voldemort is definitely an INTJ as is Snape.

[Paul V]

I think Faramir from LOTR is an INTJ. He seems reserved and he is definitely introspective. With his powers of Westernesse, he has an incredibly well developed intuition, almost to the point where he can read minds.

INFJ, to me. They are the best at reading people, and Faramir often does things out of love or feelings instead of logic (He should've killed Gollum for trespassing their secret hideout, he shouldn't have let Frodo and Sam go, he is always merciful to his enemies, etc).

[Jgib5328]

INFJ, to me. They are the best at reading people, and Faramir often does things out of love or feelings instead of logic (He should've killed Gollum for trespassing their secret hideout, he shouldn't have let Frodo and Sam go, he is always merciful to his enemies, etc).

True, I wasn't sure if he was emotional or not, I just said that the T and J aspects were obvious because I couldn't really think of anything. He was emotional with Eowyn and felt strongly about things and he was merciful many times. INFJ is still cool though.

What about Aragorn. Couldn't he be considered an INTJ? Although he does feel strongly about things, he seems similar to Gandalf.

I actually thought that at the beginning of LOTR, Gandalf the Grey seems more INFJish and when he became Gandalf the White he was really INTJish.

[Paul V]

True, I wasn't sure if he was emotional or not, I just said that the T and J aspects were obvious because I couldn't really think of anything. He was emotional with Eowyn and felt strongly about things and he was merciful many times. INFJ is still cool though.

What about Aragorn. Couldn't he be considered an INTJ? Although he does feel strongly about things, he seems similar to Gandalf.

I actually thought that at the beginning of LOTR, Gandalf the Grey seems more INFJish and when he became Gandalf the White he was really INTJish.

Aragorn seems a little contradictory to me. He's definetely a T and a J, but he's a ranger, and his behaviour points towards I at the beginning. But as the novel progresses, he becomes more and more extroverted, until he becomes the king of the biggest kingdom in Middle Earth. Then, the hardest part. I can't tell whether he's an N or an S. He seems to be constantly thinking about the future and his destiny, but he's also very matter of fact and practical, telling others to focus on the present problems first and then on the future (that could be a manifestation of T, however). So he could be an INTJ, an ENTJ, an ISTJ or an ESTJ. I'd go for ENTJ.

Gandalf is definitely an INTJ. Bear in mind that he alone had the task to safeguard the One Ring, while at the same time gaining the collaboration of Humans, Elves and Dwarves, as well as facing the treason of Saruman. It was a rather stressful time for him back then, because he actually thought he could fail. When he became Gandalf the White, his powers increased in a way he never imagined, and he knew he would win. That gave him the confidence that had been previously suppressed.

[MetalWounds]

Does anyone remember the old "90s" tv series "The Pretender"? He seems to me very much an INTJ

[Octavianus Caesar]

I figure Dumbledore to be an INTJ, he seems similar to Gandalf.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

I would also place Uchiha Sasuke (from Naruto) and Kuchiki Byakuya (from Bleach) as INTJs. Yay for anime!

...

Don't judge!!



Byakuya would seem to be a little more of an INTJ than Uchiha would, the only thing that's really fueling his drive is to get revenge, a deeply felt feeling. His brother, Itachi Uchiha seems to be more of a INTJ to me though.





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 0 minutes and 52 seconds later...

Jesus, stop talking about Dr. House. No way that guy is an INTJ. And thank God; I find him endlessly annoying and smarmy. I'd bet $100 he's not INTJ, but of course there is no way to prove that, as he's a fictitious character. lol.

Thank you. House grinds my nerves too.





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 2 minutes and 44 seconds later...

Professor Ian Hood from Eleventh Hour (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.(TV_series))

Played by none other than...
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While he is highly analytical and objective, his intuitive drive and flashes of insight are unmistakable.

"Eleventh Hour is a four part British television series developed by Granada Television for ITV by writer Stephen Gallagher. It follows the adventures of Professor Ian Hood (played by Patrick Stewart), Special Advisor to the government's Joint Sciences Committee, who troubleshoots threats stemming from or targeting "scientific endeavour." He is joined by Rachel Young (played by Ashley Jensen), a Special Branch operative who acts primarily as his bodyguard, as Hood has made powerful enemies through his work. " Wikipedia

This is a little off topic, but when I hear Patrick Stewart's voice it has an "all knowing" feel to it. I love it. Sort of INTJ-ish sounding too.

Okay, seemingly off topicness is over. Xo

[Antares]

I figure Dumbledore to be an INTJ, he seems similar to Gandalf.

I think he's INFJ. After reading the seventh book, I realize that he is very much a feeler.

[Jgib5328]

Kuchiki Byaukua (spelling) is an ISTJ, he strictly enforces the rules and believes that rules should be followed no matter what.

Sasuke would be an INTJ, he has a very cold personality, he is highly analytical, he is focused and goal oriented, and he is obviously an introvert. He is driven by an emotion, but that doesn't really matter, I'm driven by an emotion too.

[Santana28]

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Seriously - she's like the ultimate. Read the wiki. Of course, she could always just be an ISFP who has managed to grasp onto the powers of an INTJ... when all else fails, i go with this guy :

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note ** dangit, how the hell do i post pictures? i've done it before so it makes no sense. did a moderator disable me from doing so?

[leinad]

How about Val Kilmer's Doc Holliday from the movie Tombstone?

[Bossy Mom]

I have brought up the character of Patrick Bateman ("American Psycho") being an INTJ before, but I don't think anyone has recognized him on this forum. Am I the only one?

I love Val Kilmer's Doc Holliday.

[Jgib5328]

I have brought up the character of Patrick Bateman ("American Psycho") being an INTJ before, but I don't think anyone has recognized him on this forum. Am I the only one?

I love Val Kilmer's Doc Holliday.

I read somewhere that Patrick Bateman is an INTJ.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Kuchiki Byaukua (spelling) is an ISTJ, he strictly enforces the rules and believes that rules should be followed no matter what.

Sasuke would be an INTJ, he has a very cold personality, he is highly analytical, he is focused and goal oriented, and he is obviously an introvert. He is driven by an emotion, but that doesn't really matter, I'm driven by an emotion too.

Hm, interesting...

[Skitter]

I'm kinda new to the MBTI thing, but has anyone considered Daria Morgendorffer (from the MTV show 'Daria') or Gaz (from 'Invader Zim') to be INTJs? They're two characters I always identified with.

[Santana28]

House is the exact image and personality of my father. Seriously, biggest asshole ever. Try spending 17 years in close proximity with someone like that, and worse yet - being the biggest threat to his superiority. Ugh.





Santana28 added to this post, 1 minutes and 27 seconds later...

I'm kinda new to the MBTI thing, but has anyone considered Daria Morgendorffer (from the MTV show 'Daria') or Gaz (from 'Invader Zim') to be INTJs? They're two characters I always identified with.

I love Invader Zim! Jhonen Vasquez's work has been my favorite for years, even before the dumb TV show. If you get time look up the "I Feel Sick" comics... pure INTJ humor, and i've never laughed until i literally hurt inside and was crying until i read those books.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

First, Long Live Jhonen Vasquez.

Second, has anyone heard of Vampire Hunter D? From what I've seen, which are only the movies mind you, I want to get my hands on the novels, D may be a fictional INTJ; or at least a type close to it. I don't feel like typing out his personality right now, but if you've seen him/read him then you'd know what I mean.

[Uberfuhrer]

What about the G-Man in the Half-Life games?

[Skitter]

I loved "I Feel Sick". Devi's the best!

Hmm... As long as we're discussing Jhonen Vasquez characters, does anyone have any idea what Nny's MBTI score would be?

[Michifan]

Is it me, or can one only become a Jedi Master by being INTJ? Yoda, Obi Wan...

I think Annakin lost it when he became a ISFP...

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Is it me, or can one only become a Jedi Master by being INTJ? Yoda, Obi Wan...

I think Annakin lost it when he became a ISFP...

Huh, I never thought about it like that. But now that I do, I see what you mean...o.0





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 0 minutes and 46 seconds later...

Oh, I also think Huey Freeman from The Boondocks is a possiable INTJ.

[Santana28]

Is it me, or can one only become a Jedi Master by being INTJ? Yoda, Obi Wan...

I think Annakin lost it when he became a ISFP...

okay, as a hardcore Trekkie i will have absolutely no jedi discussion here in my presence!

Tribbles rule!

sorry... back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[denaria]

Errm - maybe you're all going to shout me down, but isn't Lisa Simpson an INTJ?

[Santana28]

Errm - maybe you're all going to shout me down, but isn't Lisa Simpson an INTJ?

i dont know...she's a little more touchy feely. maybe ISTJ or INFJ?

[blue tie]

The more I watch House, the more I'm convinced that he's INTJ. Granted, I do not take into account where switching the letters modifies that thing... the "extroverted feeling" or "introverted intuition" thing. I don't know what that's called but I've never used it to type someone.

1) Of course House is an introvert. He likes to spend the ends of episodes/holidays alone. And he likes to be in his office alone, thinking.

2) Intuition. House has loads of it. This is the purpose of the entire series, that he's a super duper detective. I get what people are saying that he has a Sherlock Holmes-like lock on details, but I think that's just the intuition and work ethic being incredibly powerful. He lives in his head a lot and he has a lot of ideals.

3) Thinking. Paired with N, he loves to rationalize things. I'm certain he's willing to submit to some other thery when he's wrong, it just doesn't happen that often, because he's often right. Finding dianoses is just like finding patterns and reasons and all those things. And, it's been pointed out multiple times that he doesn't care about other people's feelings as much as he cares about the case.

4) Judging. Hmm I don't know how to back this one up. But he does like things to be neat and orderly. And he's not really spontaneous as he is scheming. I think he's always in control. And even when he's not, he's thinking of a way to control. Oh and diagnoses are lists! The man loves lists!

House is my hero. :)

[INTJoe]

Errm - maybe you're all going to shout me down, but isn't Lisa Simpson an INTJ?

She's definitely IJ. But she strikes me as a Guardian, rather than a Rational. So I'd guess ISXJ. Not sure about F or T. She's probably more F, as she seems more in-tune with those who can't help themselves.

I'd say ISFJ.

[denaria]

She's definitely IJ. But she strikes me as a Guardian, rather than a Rational. So I'd guess ISXJ. Not sure about F or T. She's probably more F, as she seems more in-tune with those who can't help themselves.

I'd say ISFJ.



I'm borderline-ish on N and T, which may explain why I tend to identify quite strongly with Lisa. But I'm much more in tune with INTJs than with the other possibilities, and I suspect my "touchy-feely" tendencies were instilled by my loving mother's example rather than my own inate inclination. Hey, I'm sorry for people with problems and I just know I can fix them..... And Marge is a NICE person too, isn't she?

[Lagawrd]

How about in the anime Death note? 'L' is definately an INTJ. I think it is too obvious which probably does not make it too bright... I am sure it is listed somewhere. I probably missed it.

[Santana28]

I suspect my "touchy-feely" tendencies were instilled by my loving mother's example rather than my own inate inclination.

i seriously doubt that. i was an only child and my mother was about as touchy-feely and devoted as a mother could be. it just annoyed the living hell out of me.

[Jgib5328]

How about in the anime Death note? 'L' is definately an INTJ. I think it is too obvious which probably does not make it too bright... I am sure it is listed somewhere. I probably missed it.

I always thought he was an INTP, but I guess he is an INTJ. I hate him though. Light is a much cooler character and he is also an INTJ.

Since we're on the topic of anime. My favorite fictional character, Sesshoumaru is definitely an INTJ.

[ginandsour]

What about Max Cohen, in Pi?

[Octavianus Caesar]

Terry brooks has a character named Allanon, a druid, who loves learning the history of the land, his character is very similar to Gandalf.

[Victor Tango]

I would peg Palpatine/the Emperor/Darth Sidious from Star Wars as the ultimate fictional INTJ.

[Jgib5328]

I would peg Palpatine/the Emperor/Darth Sidious from Star Wars as the ultimate fictional INTJ.

I thought he was an ENTJ, he did seem rather social while he was Palpatine, although when he was 'the emperor' he seemed more INTJish.

Didn't anyone say Mr. Burns yet?

[Victor Tango]

I thought he was an ENTJ, he did seem rather social while he was Palpatine, although when he was 'the emperor' he seemed more INTJish.

Didn't anyone say Mr. Burns yet?

Mr. Burns is a bullseye for sure!

I thought about Palpatine's sociability as well, but what I concluded was that this was simply a front, a necessary part of his "kindly and courteous senator Palpatine" persona. But notice how once he became Emperor, and had "supreme executive power*" he became increasingly insular. This is readily apparent in "Jedi", where he only has a couple of people in his massive "throne room" at any one time, and spends a lot of time looking out the window into space.

This is also borne out by his creation of the Grand Moffs and the Imperial Ruling Council, who took most of the social and day-to-day aspects of Galactic leadership off his plate, leaving him to rule from behind and above them as a quintessential mastermind.

*No farcical aquatic ceremony required.

[Jgib5328]

Mr. Burns is a bullseye for sure!

I thought about Palpatine's sociability as well, but what I concluded was that this was simply a front, a necessary part of his "kindly and courteous senator Palpatine" persona. But notice how once he became Emperor, and had "supreme executive power*" he became increasingly insular. This is readily apparent in "Jedi", where he only has a couple of people in his massive "throne room" at any one time, and spends a lot of time looking out the window into space.

This is also borne out by his creation of the Grand Moffs and the Imperial Ruling Council, who took most of the social and day-to-day aspects of Galactic leadership off his plate, leaving him to rule from behind and above them as a quintessential mastermind.

*No farcical aquatic ceremony required.

Speaking of Star Wars, Darth Vader, Obi Wan, and Yoda are probably all INTJs.

[Lucid]

First, Long Live Jhonen Vasquez.

Second, has anyone heard of Vampire Hunter D? From what I've seen, which are only the movies mind you, I want to get my hands on the novels, D may be a fictional INTJ; or at least a type close to it. I don't feel like typing out his personality right now, but if you've seen him/read him then you'd know what I mean.

You get +1 for taste in Anime and comic books. Have you read Transmetropolitan?

[Metatron]

I think there is a misconception here:
Hannibal Lecter and Jason Bourne are definately not INTJ-s, not even NT-s. Most likely they are both ISTP-s. Think of the sensuality defining Hannibal's character, it's all about sensing, not intuition. Being smart does not make one an NT. Jason Bourne is all about action, like Jack Bauer of 24. Their key word: "right now...". All of these are sensation seeking personalities, SP-s.
The best developed INTJ characters in literature: Horatio Hornblower (10 volume series by C.S. Forester; John Galt and Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged; and several Jane Austen characters. Hornblower is by far the most 'visible'.

[Jgib5328]

I think there is a misconception here:
Hannibal Lecter and Jason Bourne are definately not INTJ-s, not even NT-s. Most likely they are both ISTP-s. Think of the sensuality defining Hannibal's character, it's all about sensing, not intuition. Being smart does not make one an NT. Jason Bourne is all about action, like Jack Bauer of 24. Their key word: "right now...". All of these are sensation seeking personalities, SP-s.
The best developed INTJ characters in literature: Horatio Hornblower (10 volume series by C.S. Forester; John Galt and Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged; and several Jane Austen characters. Hornblower is by far the most 'visible'.

What about Hank Reardon? He was definitely and INTJ. Fransisco (I think that was his name) was definitely an NTJ either an ENTJ or an INTJ.

[Kristian]

Lisa Simpson is clearly an idealist-temperament.
Idealistic - it's the big picture that counts - it's about the environment and caring for the little guy.
Not because it's tradition or rules, but because she wants people and herself to a higher standard.

She's not a guardian - she has no power or control game going on. And feels to much to be a rationalist. When “down” – she get depressed instead of schizoid type of behavior.

That she's such a bookworm points to IN. I would say she’s an INFJ. Some episodes she's up against the whole city - J's are more stubborn in their beliefs.





Kristian added to this post, 17 minutes and 20 seconds later...

I think there is a misconception here:
Hannibal Lecter and Jason Bourne are definately not INTJ-s, not even NT-s. Most likely they are both ISTP-s. Think of the sensuality defining Hannibal's character, it's all about sensing, not intuition. Being smart does not make one an NT. Jason Bourne is all about action, like Jack Bauer of 24. Their key word: "right now...". All of these are sensation seeking personalities, SP-s.


Think you're right about Jason Bourne being a SP-type. He's so much in the moment - he picks up on details very quick and act immediately. He doesn't need to make a system for everything.

He's Guardian side seems very developed though. Maybe it's a flaw in the way the writers build up his character or you could excuse it with many years of military training will make everyone more J’ish.
But he doesn't seem laidback like a SP. Always very thorough and moves like a J - very erect.

[Santana28]

Think you're right about Jason Bourne being a SP-type. He's so much in the moment - he picks up on details very quick and act immediately. He doesn't need to make a system for everything.

He's Guardian side seems very developed though. Maybe it's a flaw in the way the writers build up his character or you could excuse it with many years of military training will make everyone more J’ish.
But he doesn't seem laidback like a SP. Always very thorough and moves like a J - very erect.

i know for a fact Ps can learn to become Js... maybe vice versa in a heavily academic setting... i'd say Jason Bourne is definitely a P who has finely honed his J skills

[denaria]

The best developed INTJ characters in literature: Horatio Hornblower (10 volume series by C.S. Forester; John Galt and Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged; and several Jane Austen characters. Hornblower is by far the most 'visible'.

I'm going to have to think about Hornblower - you may be right - but while we're in the area, how about Stephen Maturin?

[NeonTetra]

I just saw "There Will Be Blood" yesterday and I'm pretty sure Daniel Plainview is an INTJ. I think Paul Sunday is an INFJ or at least NFJ.

Good movie!

[lordrrr]

Stewie Griffin from Family Guy is a good representation of INTJ's.

[Metatron]

Hank Rearden - yes, he is an INTJ. I don't know about Stephen Maturin, haven't read the novels. Maybe I should.
Here is another one though: John Nash from A beautiful mind.

[lordrrr]

Hank Rearden - yes, he is an INTJ. I don't know about Stephen Maturin, haven't read the novels. Maybe I should.
Here is another one though: John Nash from A beautiful mind.

A Beautiful Mind. That is an awesome one that guy is a total INTJ. I remember when he was practically disecting that pattern and the general behind him was like "Can I get you anything" and he just continued, didn't even respond to the general, just kept figuring out the pattern. That's a true INTJ there.

But A Beautiful Mind is a true story right? That character is a real person.

[Jgib5328]

A Beautiful Mind. That is an awesome one that guy is a total INTJ. I remember when he was practically disecting that pattern and the general behind him was like "Can I get you anything" and he just continued, didn't even respond to the general, just kept figuring out the pattern. That's a true INTJ there.

But A Beautiful Mind is a true story right? That character is a real person.

Lol yeah it's a true story, John Nash was a famous economist who developed the Nash Equilibrium, which one him the noble prize. I'm sure the movie isn't exactly what his life was like, it may not have been close, but it's at least based on a true story.

[jjelovich]

I think two great fictional INTJs are Ebenezer Scrooge and Jean Valjean both before and after their transformation/revelation.

Note: Not as sure about Jean Valjean being INTJ, he sure seems like one. INFJ would be my second guess though.

[Kristian]

John Nash from A beautiful mind. Why not INTP? They're also very absent-minded. Maybe more than INTJ. He seems very sloppy(?) to me.

[lordrrr]

John Nash from A beautiful mind. Why not INTP? They're also very absent-minded. Maybe more than INTJ. He seems very sloppy(?) to me.


Hmm perhaps INTP.


The problem with INTP's is they never do anything. INTJ's take their minds and work hard with them. INTP's design ideas they never do. Not to be hard on them or anything. On the plus side INTP's are more likeable I guess, and they're able to come up with more perplexing ideas then INTJ's to the point where they don't even feel a need for books, but INTJ's are more interested in their education.

So you make a good case there, but I havn't really seen the whole movie or know the whole story to know whether that guy did a lot or just thought a lot.

[denaria]

I don't know about Stephen Maturin, haven't read the novels. Maybe I should.

Oh yes, you should, you should! VERY good!

[Darkmist]

I'll second Raistlin Majere, and add Kellhus from Bakker's Prince of Nothing trilogy, as well as Merlin and Circe.

[cruftie]

Elizabeth Bennett

[Haphazard]

I'm looking at this and trying to figure out what the personality types the characters in Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicle are.

It seems that INTJs make wonderful villains. Perhaps this is why I've dedicated my entire school year to studying villains and continually find myself penting my fingers?

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Dr. Cox from Scrubs anyone? I think he's an intj.





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 6 minutes and 3 seconds later...

Mr. Burns is a bullseye for sure!

I thought about Palpatine's sociability as well, but what I concluded was that this was simply a front, a necessary part of his "kindly and courteous senator Palpatine" persona. But notice how once he became Emperor, and had "supreme executive power*" he became increasingly insular. This is readily apparent in "Jedi", where he only has a couple of people in his massive "throne room" at any one time, and spends a lot of time looking out the window into space.

This is also borne out by his creation of the Grand Moffs and the Imperial Ruling Council, who took most of the social and day-to-day aspects of Galactic leadership off his plate, leaving him to rule from behind and above them as a quintessential mastermind.

*No farcical aquatic ceremony required.

"Don't all me a monkey." "Silnece Monkey." Classic Burns.





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 3 minutes and 14 seconds later...

You get +1 for taste in Anime and comic books. Have you read Transmetropolitan?

Much appreciated, and no I have'nt; care to enlighten me? It sounds intriguing.

[Antares]

I think two great fictional INTJs are Ebenezer Scrooge and Jean Valjean both before and after their transformation/revelation.

Note: Not as sure about Jean Valjean being INTJ, he sure seems like one. INFJ would be my second guess though.

I think Jean Valjean was INTJ to start with, but transformed into INFJ after the bishop incident.

Elizabeth Bennett

Dunno... She seems ISTJ to me.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Oh and I've come up with another one, Nicholas Angel from Hot Fuzz; he seemed to be intj material.

[sCara]

[Books]
--Ignatius J. (Jacques) Reilly - A Confederacy Of Dunces.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
--Arturo Binewski - Geek Love.
--Theron Ware - Black Easter.

[Movies]
--Vincent Price as Dr. Phibes.
--Charles Foster Kane.

[Nemesys]

"It seems that INTJs make wonderful villains."

Note that Dr. Evil and Blofled spent a lot of time petting their cats.

The classic fictional female INTJ, imnsho, is Dangny Taggart. Can any of the women here relate to her?

[Lei Yang]

The classic fictional female INTJ, imnsho, is Dangny Taggart. Can any of the women here relate to her?

I always thought of her as ENTJ, though. The fact that she chose to work as a coordinator on the Taggart rail, and the fact that her role in the book is pretty much to be a kind of coordinator for all the other "good" characters.
Also, her failing was according to Rand - optimism, on the part of other humans. Apart from Frisco, I think she comes about as the most E of the protagonists.

[Nemesys]

I always thought of (Dagney) as ENTJ, though...

You could make a case either way. The "I" clues I pick up on her are:

1) She rarely speaks off the cuff, but usually reflects internally before speaking

2) She rarely socializes beyond the context of her work. Rand describes her mother being surprised that Dag was interested in her debutante ball because she had not shown interest in such things before, and mother does know best.

Being able to perform cross-functionally at work doesn't take away from one's type. As a trainer, I often have to dump a lot of energy into my teaching to act like a very strong E, but when it's over I snap right back to form. It was hard to learn the energy transfer, but like any skill, the more you practice the better you get at it. I even broadcast now on an internet radio station - which is easy so long as nobody else is in the room :-)

3) Her overall energy seems very internally focused to me in almost all things. She gains strength as a factor of her internal convictions. She talks to herself a lot - seemingly more often than she talks to others.

It's true she seems animated compared to Galt and company, but anyone would who compares themselves to "Mr. Stoic".

And yes, she was optimistic, but optimism isn't nessisarily an "E" quality unless she expresses it ad naseum, which she doesn't. I'd argue that optimism is also the sign of a well-developed strong N.

I definately agree that Frisco is an E. Maybe even with a slight touch of F.

[Lei Yang]

3) Her overall energy seems very internally focused to me in almost all things. She gains strength as a factor of her internal convictions. She talks to herself a lot - seemingly more often than she talks to others.

I guess you're right on that one. Only thing I could argue against is that this might have come about merely because Rand herself was strongly Ni.

Her optimism, though, wasn't the result of a well-developed strong N. After all, she's falsely optimistic and refuses to choose Galt's side initially precisely because she thinks she can lift the world on her own shoulders, that people will eventually follow when they see that she is right.

Typing Frisco could also be interesting. I wonder, he was susceptible to Galt's ideas fairly quickly, which probably makes him a P. His childhood suggests NT, even ENTP. Actually, the whole inventing-entrepreneur suggests ENTP.

[Nemesys]

Her optimism, though, wasn't the result of a well-developed strong N. After all, she's falsely optimistic and refuses to choose Galt's side initially precisely because she thinks she can lift the world on her own shoulders...

INtuitives aren't always correct in their iNtuition - it's merely the way they chose to gather and organize data. Dagney had good reason to believe that clear vision and hard work would lead to her success, since she pulled that off herself many a time, most notably when building the John Galt Line. I think that Dagney's N-driven imagination and self-confidence may have gotten in the way of her reasoning (N[I] is her dominant function, after all, with Extroverted Thinking only her Auxillary), and she trusted too much in herself to get things done all on her lonesome

That's a little-regarded minor lesson from Rand. In the end, it did Take a Village to save the world... a little "E" in just the right places might just be the trick.

As for Frisco, I hadn't thought of the P, but it's possible... he's flighty enough. I just thought he was too emotional for his own good - all his little "feel-good" missions added up to something else. I'm not 100% sold that he's an NT. He could be an NF who Saw The Light.

[Jgib5328]

Sideshow Bob is an INTJ

[Lei Yang]

Henry, in the Secret History by Donna Tartt

[DeadSpace]

Dr. Cox from Scrubs anyone? I think he's an intj.

Was watching that the other day and thought he was
Funny test for Scrubs (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[jamescwade2]

How about GRISOLM from "CSI Miami"? He has got to be really close to INTJ if not dead on...

[Richard0612]

How about GRISOLM from "CSI Miami"? He has got to be really close to INTJ if not dead on...

Er... Grissom is from CSI: Las Vegas [the original series], but it is likely that he is INTJ/INTP. He certainly has the 'weird interests' part down!

[Haphazard]

What about Viktor Frankenstein?

He seems pretty INTJ, or at least the caricature of one. Then again, I haven't finished the book yet.

[BlackHawk]

Howard Rorak, Architect. INTJ.
I just finished reading The Fountainhead for the first time. I think it is completely amazing, and I definitely identify with Roark.
Interesting Side Note: Supposedly Howard Roark is supposed to be "the perfect man"
lol

[ssfanatic]

It Michael Chrichton's book Sphere (there is a movie also) one of the main characters named Harry is a definite INTJ. Love that book, really good.

[Merle]

I was watching Homicide: life on the street last night.. I know somewhere, way back near the start of this thread, someone mentioned Pembleton as a possible INTJ. I swear pretty much the whole cast is IN something.. apart from Meldrick and Kellerman who are probably both ES something.
Pembleton does seem quite INTJ to me, so does dr Cox the M.E. , Bayliss must be INFP, and Munch seems more INTP to me.

[apresmoimelle]

concerning Law and Order: although I love Munch, i think he has more a genuine emotional draw into cases that really might indicate him outside of the INTJ category. How about the pychologist played by B.D. Wong? He's my vote, and one of my favorite characters.

Ahh, I love Law & Order: SVU! I have been watching the show since I was 10 years old, so I think thats when it began. But I can totally see how Munch would be an INTJ, especially in terms of his many relationships and how he views each. But to really add to this topic, I think Patrick Stewart, or Professor Xavier is an INTJ too.

[eternaltriangle]

On the House debate, remember that House is tv-smart. Actors think that being smart means you know a lot of facts - hence, House can recite symptoms like nothing else. I would argue that like most doctors, he is an S, rather than an N (the imprecision and uncertainty of intuition does not fit well with a medical environment). However, House's ornery, set in his ways nature suggests he IS a J.

1. Sheldon from the big bang theory is an obvious candidate.

2. Dogbert is a possibility, although Dogbert may be an E, I would lean against it because he has no friends, and his ability to convince people is rooted in planning and learned understanding of people, rather than raw charisma.

3. Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now

4. Hari Seldon from Asimov's Foundation series (could be an INTP)

[elke]

What about Carrie-Anne Moss (Trinity) from the Matrix?

I love to relate to her, and even slightly look like her..if i have to believe some of my friends..

[Bluestocking]

I'd classify House as an ISTP. He's too much of a thrill junkie -- the sex with prostitutes, the drugs, the motorcycle, trying cure after cure even when it might kill a patient, etc. -- to be an INTP or an INTJ. He's also modeled after Sherlock Holmes, who I'd also classify as an ISTP rather than an INTJ. Holmes gets most of the clues for his cases through his senses and by careful observation of the environment. He sometimes will refuse to speculate or theorize when he doesn't have all the facts. An INTP wouldn't be able to resist. Holmes also gets incredibly bored when he doesn't have an ongoing case. Holmes isn't particularly emotionless, even though Watson so often protests that he is. Holmes gets upset when he thinks Watson has been injured, he is upset when he makes a mistake, he sometimes speculates about what he'd do if he had a wife or a daughter, as the client does; he's fascinated by Irene Adler. I think they both fit the ISTP profile.

I think a classic INTJ character is Temperance Brennan on Bones. Her foil, Booth, is an ESFJ. Zack Addy on Bones also seems like an even more extreme INTJ.

Other INTJs
Gil Grissom from CSI
Jean-Luc Picard from Star Trek: The Next Generation
Professor Moriarty from the Sherlock Holmes stories
Seven of Nine: Star Trek: Enterprise

[Lei Yang]

Howard Rorak, Architect. INTJ.
I just finished reading The Fountainhead for the first time. I think it is completely amazing, and I definitely identify with Roark.
Interesting Side Note: Supposedly Howard Roark is supposed to be "the perfect man"
lol

he's typically called an intp though (supposedly be keirsey as well...): To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

After all, Ps don't HAVE to be flighty.

Ps. Boba Fett as he appears in the new hope-trilogy gotta be intj :D (or maybe he's S... hm)

[Rowan]

Typelogic dot com lists Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs) and Professor Moriarty (Sherlock Holmes) as INTJs. I can’t help but notice that, if these two villains fit the type so well, then so must Steerpike (Gormenghast), Orochimaru (Naruto), Iago (Othello), Sergey Petrovich Zinovyev (The Shooting Party), Baron Vladimir Harkonnen (Dune), Jon Irenicus (Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn), Mayuri Kurotsuchi (Bleach), Lucas Romer (Restless), Vicious (Cowboy Bebop), Johan Liebert (Monster), Muska (Laputa), Sir Humphrey Appleby (Yes Minister), Juliette (Histoire de Juliette ou les Prospérités du vice), The Underground Man (Notes from Underground), Patrick Bateman (American Psycho), Mr. Freeze (Batman), The Scarecrow (Batman) and so on and so forth; from popular culture (Orochimaru) to canonical fiction (Iago) INTJs frequently appear as either outright villains (Muska) or morally ambiguous (Sir Humphrey Appleby). Why is this?

Perhaps I’m mistaken? My knowledge of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator in particular and Psychological Typing in general is limited. Perhaps many (or at least some) of these villains don’t fit the INTJ type? Maybe there are an equal number of heroic INTJs in fiction; I can think of a handful: Sherlock Holmes, Clarice Starling, L, Near, Gregory House and Uryū Ishida. Anyway, I would be interested in feedback on this odd correlation between INTJs and villains if, in fact, there is any such correlation.

[ChfMojoRising]

Good guy INTJ's~

Ogami Itto, Lone Wolf and Cub (jpn manga)

Lucifer, Lucifer (american comic, based on The Sandman universe)

Motoko Kusanagi, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (anime, not the comic)

Sanjuro, Yojimbo [maybe](classic japanese cinema)

looking through my some of my things, that's all I can think of at the moment. I have a feeling there is unfairly few heros compared to a high number of villains. Why that is? Perhaps to an outsider an INTJ can seem to spurn off and hate society as well as being egocentric. That's an easy way to explain a maladjusted individual.

[thod]

It seems reasonable. Most of the population is SJ's so someone with a different mindset is bound to be the villain, thats what sells.

What would a movie made for INTJ's look like? Would an evil ESFP trying to take over the world between cuddling puppies be believable?

[Kotetsu]

An ESFx corporation wants to turn the world into a sunless continuous party. Through sublimal messaging, mass media and mega millions they succeed. An INTJ hermit from somewhere remote is approached and is expected to act like an ESFx but decides to stand up to the hedonistic craze.

[Richard0612]

An ESFx corporation wants to turn the world into a sunless continuous party. Through sublimal messaging, mass media and mega millions they succeed. An INTJ hermit from somewhere remote is approached and is expected to act like an ESFx but decides to stand up to the hedonistic craze.

Stop reading my mind! I actually had an idea for a story the other day which I may start writing [I might post it here eventually] where an organisation tries to rule the world through subliminal messages encouraging everyone to 'love each other' and 'love' this wacko leader. It works for 5 years until a group of scientists [read: INTJs] who escaped the brainwashing come up with a plan to stop the loonies. The corporation's plan has one fatal weakness: these 'mind messages' need to have their power increased every year as people become resistant to them. While the power is tinkered with, the shielding around the brainwashing satellites is down. The INTJs get a satellite into space to broadcast a 'shock' message waking up the populace and war ensues when this mad organisation tries to take contol by force. [Think INTJs vs ESFx!].

[Rowan]

Would an evil ESFP trying to take over the world between cuddling puppies be believable?

I’m not sure about an ESFP, but there are certainly a few villains who don’t fit the INTJ type. INFP seems to have a few narrissiticesque villains, e.g. Light Yagami (Death Note), Magneto (X-Men), The Operative (Serenity) Caleb (Buffy), Angelus (Buffy) and even ESFPs might be represented by the likes of Glorificus (Buffy). I can’t help but notice that Joss Whedon generally doesn’t go for the INTJ stereotypical villain. Nonetheless, the majority of villains in fiction do seem to be INTJ.

[Jgib5328]

Orochimaru is an ENTP and Light was an INTJ, not even close to an INFP.

INTJs make good super villains because they are the heartless masterminds that come up with callous plans to take over the world.

[Mafiaangel180]

I have yet to watch the movie "There Will Be Blood." But supposedly Daniel Day-Lewis' character is an INTJ. But hey....the role of villain is cool.

It could be worse...ENFPs are usually share the same type as all the retarded cartoon characters.



Pinky: Gee, Brain, what are we going to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to take over the world!

[Rowan]

Orochimaru is an ENTP and Light was an INTJ, not even close to an INFP.

I will concede that Orochimaru is an ENTP, which sounds like a much better and more interesting fit. However, Light Yagami definitely comes across as an Idealist; IMO this quote from wiki fits him perfectly:

INFPs treasure their privacy and may keep to themselves. They need time and space for reflection. Others find it very easy to get along well with INFPs, although they probably will not not know them intimately. INFPs may not always be organized. They may tend to lose things or to forget appointments. They will be meticulous about some things and careless about others. They can be extremely patient with complicated issues but may become impatient with routine and details.

Also:

INFPs are withdrawn and are sometimes hard to get to know. They care deeply for those they consider special friends. They often have a subtle, tragic motif running through their lives—inner pain and unease which others seldom detect.

Am I wrong?

[Jgib5328]

I will concede that Orochimaru is an ENTP, which sounds like a much better and more interesting fit. However, Light Yagami definitely comes across as an Idealist; IMO this quote from wiki fits him perfectly:



Also:



Am I wrong?

He'd have to be an INFJ then if that were the case. He is future oriented, well planned, well organized etc. There is no P in him, he was a master strategist. I still think he is an INTJ, he is way too NT in his behavior. He originally wanted to just kill off all of the bad guys, then he changed his motivation to become the god of the world. He may have been idealistic, but there is no law saying an INTJ can't be. Just look at all his behavior, he is incredibly cold and calculating and comes up with ingenious plans. Look how he used people for his own ends and didn't value human life at all. NFs strongly value other people, while Light clearly doesn't exhibit this. Remember the two girls he manipulated for his own end? While it may be true that he is idealistic, that doesn't just mean that he's an NF, if you analyze his behavior, it's more like an INTJ.

Lol those descriptions sound nothing like him. He is incredibly well organized, how else would he carry out his incredible plans? He doesn't care deeply about anyone either. Name one person in the show that he felt something for? He pretended to care for people so that he could use them. You analysis is way off.

[Antares]

I think INTJs make very good villains, but that does demonize us sometimes. In the SJ dominated world, the movies are made for the SJs, many a times by the SJs. It wouldn't be surprising. Especially SFJs and SFPs. The good guys are likely F types; ENFP, ISFP, ISFJ, INFJ, ENFJ. Of course, there'll be T heroes, but I think we don't have them as we have F heroes. The heroes and heroines of Harry Potter are all SF types (Harry ISFP, Hermione ISFJ, Ron ESFP). The antihero, Snape, is INTJ and perceived unfavorably by many people. Voldemort is an INTJ also.

In Star Wars, we have ENFP Anakin and INFP Luke. Not surprising.

INTJs tend to be antiheroes (I think Hannibal Lecter qualifies). The bottom line is, INTJs tend to have revolutionary ideas; sometimes it offends F types, sometimes S. Like INTJs would joke about things that are 'tabooed', and some view human beings as no more than just another species of animal and seek to... 'better' it. An INTJ villain usually changes (or tries to change) society according to his own logic and devalues humanity (I'm going to kill off this bit because...). They are (in fiction) cold, astonishingly intelligent, calculating, cunning, most of the time evil and impersonal; doesn't care, nihilist, extremist, arrogant, controlling and murderous etc. How many times have you heard: "No! I won't let you!", said by probably ESFJ heroes?

An INTJ villain's worldview in fiction is usually 'wrong', 'revolutionary' and 'absurd', and to earn the bucks, you'd have to please the masses.

[Rowan]

Warning: Spoilers

Name one person in the show that he felt something for?

Sayu Yagami, Light risks everything by sparing her. She is clearly the ideal person he wants to have populating his utopia. He also never intends to harm Soichiro Yagami, but wanted to use Touta Matsuda instead.

Light clearly (apology for the weasel word) doesn’t like people with opposing values, which is almost every other character in the show (including Kiyomi Takada who is just a megalomaniac and Misa Amane who has an amoralist love). However, Sayu reveals that he does care deeply for some people. Indeed, his entire Modus Operandi is dependent on that kind of twisted Agapesque love, which leads him to his God fantasy.

He'd have to be an INFJ then if that were the case. He is future oriented, well planned, well organized etc.

I’ll concede to this.

Your analysis is way off.

You may be right; you do seem to have a better understanding of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator and your typing of Orochimaru is inspired. However, Light’s Idealism just doesn’t seem to fit with the more pragmatic aspects of the INTJ; L and Near seem more likely INTJs.

[Jgib5328]

Warning: Spoilers



Sayu Yagami, Light risks everything by sparing her. She is clearly the ideal person he wants to have populating his utopia. He also never intends to harm Soichiro Yagami, but wanted to use Touta Matsuda instead.

Light clearly (apology for the weasel word) doesn’t like people with opposing values, which is almost every other character in the show (including Kiyomi Takada who is just a megalomaniac and Misa Amane who has an amoralist love). However, Sayu reveals that he does care deeply for some people. Indeed, his entire Modus Operandi is dependent on that kind of twisted Agapesque love, which leads him to his God fantasy.



I’ll concede to this.



You may be right; you do seem to have a better understanding of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator and your typing of Orochimaru is inspired. However, Light’s Idealism just doesn’t seem to fit with the more pragmatic aspects of the INTJ; L and Near seem more likely INTJs.

Even if he cared for one or two people, that doesn't mean anything. INTJs can care for other people. NF types tend to be idealists, but NF =/= idealist, NTs, STs, and SFs can be idealists too. When you are typing someone you have to focus on their behavior and how they act. Like I've said Light is cold and rational, he plans without putting paying attention to feelings, he follows his logic and wants to shape a world out of his logic. His F is really underdeveloped, people are tools to him and he clearly has no regard for human life since he kills criminals and his opposition like nothing else. INFJ still doesn't fit the bill.

[Rowan]

Jgib5328,

Fair enough; for the time being I’ll concede.

[True Rune]

You'd probably need an INTJ to produce an INTJ hero.. But I guess when one thinks mastermind, they can't help putting criminal or evil in front of it, because a good one would be boring for most people..

[Cubedout]

There is one villain who is clearly SJ: Delores Umbridge from Harry Potter.

[DrEast]

Heathcliff, Wuthering Heights.

Baron Wulfenbach, Girl Genius.

Dr. Frankenstein.

On the other hand, Les Miserables has an ISTJ villain. That's a big difference!

[Santana28]

Scar, from the Lion King!!!

mwoohahaha... my favorite villain

[Uberfuhrer]

Jafar from Aladdin is my favorite.

[blue tie]

Slade felt the same as Robin in Teen Titans, the animated series. So... Probably INTJ. Methodical, cold, fucked up, and fucked up.

[blue tie]

I posted this in another thread and I searched and couldn't find anyone else mentioning it.

In Teen Titans, the animated series, Slade and Robin seem to be similar and both INTJ ish. Here's the crew, for fun.

Robin: INTJ. Definitely introverted/keeps to himself, moody, cold, organized, methodical, and messed up in the head.
Cyborg: ESTJ. Loud, booyah, very loud, obvious, critical, and organized.
Beast Boy: ESFP, was there any doubt?
Starfire: ENFJ. Idealistic like whoa, feeling-based powers, not one to keep to herself, very strong, intentional.
Raven: INFx. Definitely an introvert, definitely mystical/not of this world, feeling-based powers. Can't tell if she's really anal about anything or just let's stuff go. Maybe P because she feels pretty soft.

The main point is that Robin, my favorite character, is an INTJ. As is Slade, the main villain.

[Haphazard]

I think Frankenstein was about as INTJ as literature from the time period would allow-- and that is to say, not very much.

For the record, I'd always thought of Light as either an INFJ on a mission or an INTJ who was a very good actor. I guess either way would work.

A character's who's that calculating just can't help but make a good villain. Also, considering that INTJs are generally a bit nutty, it makes for a perfect villain combination.

I wish there were more INTJ heroes. The issue is that they focus too much on that they don't easily meet people and like them, but they'd never focus on the ones they know and do love. Difficult to imagine, I know.

[Uberfuhrer]

Batman and Bruce Banner are both INTJ heroes (the Hulk is Banner's shadow -- an ESFP).

I speculate that Jigsaw in the Saw films is an INTJ (but maybe INFJ), and he's technically the hero of the series.

Some non-INTJ villains:

Joker, Batman -- ENTP
Green Goblin (Norman Osborn), Spider-Man -- ENTJ
Venom (Eddie Brock), Spider-Man 3 -- ESTP
Howard Saint, The Punisher -- ESTJ
Bullseye, Daredevil -- ISTP
Gaston, Beauty and the Beast -- ESTP
Frollo, The Hunchback of Notre Dame -- ESTJ
Biff, Back to the Future series -- ESTP

[TheLastMohican]

Some non-INTJ villains:

Joker, Batman -- ENTP
Green Goblin (Norman Osborn), Spider-Man -- ENTJ
Venom (Eddie Brock), Spider-Man 3 -- ESTP
Howard Saint, The Punisher -- ESTJ
Bullseye, Daredevil -- ISTP
Gaston, Beauty and the Beast -- ESTP Frollo, The Hunchback of Notre Dame -- ESTJ
Biff, Back to the Future series -- ESTP

He was just classic. What a guy...:laugh:

[Uberfuhrer]

With that said, I think the Beast, a hero, is an INTJ.

And some places list Lord Voldemort as an INTP.

[Jgib5328]

We've already debated Voldemort, he is definitely and NTJ. There is no reason why he would be a P and he is most likely and INTP. The guy who originally put Voldemort as an INTP was an INTJ and didn't want him as his type, frankly I'm glad Voldemort is an INTJ, he's my favorite character in Harry Potter.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 2 minutes and 6 seconds later...

The INTJs who are not villains tend to be more anti-heroish like people have said. Every hero in an Ayn Rand book is an INTJ. If any of you like anime, my favorite anime character of all time, Sesshoumaru is the epitome of INTJ and has that antiheroness to him.

[Claptonian]

I'd classify House as an ISTP. He's too much of a thrill junkie -- the sex with prostitutes, the drugs, the motorcycle, trying cure after cure even when it might kill a patient, etc. -- to be an INTP or an INTJ. He's also modeled after Sherlock Holmes, who I'd also classify as an ISTP rather than an INTJ.

There's no way House is an "S." He may be observant when it comes to symptoms, but most of his theories are hunches. He also has no respect whatsoever for rules or authority. He does everything his own way, and though at times he comes off as a thrill seeker, watch the way he approaches his thrill-seeking. He doesn't engage prostitutes because its thrilling, he does it because he needs to get off and doesn't want to waste time seducing someone. The drug habit is perfectly congruent with an INTJ. Male INTJ's are one of the three types overrepresented among substance abusers. Also, he rarely risks killing the patient. More often, a cure he wants to try could severely handicap them, which he argues is far better than death. I don't think this is a thrill-seeking behavior. House views patients as puzzles to be solved and he doesn't like to waste time in solving them.

He also tends to follow his hunches about people. When his patients are a young married couple who seem to be madly in love, House assumes it's an STD and that the husband is cheating. There's nothing to support this hunch; it's based solely on House's views of humanity as a whole. He applies his analysis of the big picture to individual cases.

There's an episode where the pain in his leg is gone and he seems to have a new lease on life. In this episode, he tries to change his preferences. He spends time with his patient's family (trying to be Extroverted), he tries to comfort them (trying to be Feeling), and, in the end, he dejectedly concedes that his theory on how to cure the patient was just a hunch and admits that it was not based on any substantial medical observations, therefore he gives up on the theory. In other words, he represses his Intuition.

To me, House is a quintessential INT. I think he's a J based on the way he needs closure when it comes to his patients and the way he formulates well-thought out plans to fuck with people. He also isn't a big fan of change.





Claptonian added to this post, 145 minutes and 54 seconds later...

More evidence that House is an INTJ. During the most recent episode, Dr. Wilson accuses House of the following:

1. "You have to control everything...you like games because you can control them."
2. "You like what's interesting, nevermind what's real or what's good."
3. "Life just happens, and that scares the hell out of you."

To me, 1 and 3 suggest that House is a J. He doesn't want to go with the flow, he wants to control his environment, and he fears uncertainty.

There's no question that House is an I and a T. If he's also a J, he is almost definitely an N, because there's no way he's an ISTJ. The second of Wilson's accusations also suggests N to me.

[True Rune]

Dr. Cox? I don't know, tends to yap yap yap..

[Tenacious B]

Howard Rorak, Architect. INTJ.
I just finished reading The Fountainhead for the first time. I think it is completely amazing, and I definitely identify with Roark.
Interesting Side Note: Supposedly Howard Roark is supposed to be "the perfect man"
lol
If you enjoyed that book make sure to read Atlas Shrugged, I'm about 1/4 through it right now.

[Claptonian]

Dr. Cox? I don't know, tends to yap yap yap..

Yeah, but he hates most people, has very few friends and doesn't enjoy socializing very much. I think his speeches are his way of shutting people up and getting them to leave him alone.

[TheLastMohican]

With that said, I think the Beast, a hero, is an INTJ.


Really? He was pretty emotional. Let's see: Definitey I, definitely J. I would think N also, but T? I think I would say INFJ.

[sriv]

A really cool INTJ is Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender. So much like Slade, another of my favorites.

[ChfMojoRising]

OooOOoOOoo Avatar! Yes, Azula is definitely INTJ, and perhaps Mei as well? Toph is still the best tho~ >_>

[Uberfuhrer]

Really? He was pretty emotional. Let's see: Definitey I, definitely J. I would think N also, but T? I think I would say INFJ.

Yeah, his emotion seemed to mostly be tertiary Fi hiding behind his Ni and Te.

[Jgib5328]

Azula seems a lot more like an ENTJ. She is more about conquering. She also seems to need confirmation from others, remember that episode where they went to a party and she was ignored and became self conscious and actively sought out other's approval? She also doesn't seem to introspect at all and that's why she is really underdeveloped.

[sriv]

She has no one she can confide in or become close to because of the barriers she put around herself. Even her two close associates are not necessarily her friends. She seems to do very well on her own without them. Not good at understanding others as well. She has a hard time socializing speaking in a matter of fact way. The party was probably just a side effect of being too I for too long.

[lordrrr]

Stop reading my mind! I actually had an idea for a story the other day which I may start writing [I might post it here eventually] where an organisation tries to rule the world through subliminal messages encouraging everyone to 'love each other' and 'love' this wacko leader. It works for 5 years until a group of scientists [read: INTJs] who escaped the brainwashing come up with a plan to stop the loonies. The corporation's plan has one fatal weakness: these 'mind messages' need to have their power increased every year as people become resistant to them. While the power is tinkered with, the shielding around the brainwashing satellites is down. The INTJs get a satellite into space to broadcast a 'shock' message waking up the populace and war ensues when this mad organisation tries to take contol by force. [Think INTJs vs ESFx!].


Only problem is, who are the people responsible for such? Perhaps they are INTJ's as well.

[Antares]

We've already debated Voldemort, he is definitely and NTJ. There is no reason why he would be a P and he is most likely and INTP. The guy who originally put Voldemort as an INTP was an INTJ and didn't want him as his type, frankly I'm glad Voldemort is an INTJ, he's my favorite character in Harry Potter.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 2 minutes and 6 seconds later...

The INTJs who are not villains tend to be more anti-heroish like people have said. Every hero in an Ayn Rand book is an INTJ. If any of you like anime, my favorite anime character of all time, Sesshoumaru is the epitome of INTJ and has that antiheroness to him.

Voldemort's my favorite character myself; but I like him better when he was Tom Riddle (A LOT better looking. Voldemort look demented).

I think Ayn Rand has INTJ heroes because she's an INTJ herself. Most of the heroes in my own stories are INTJ (no, I usually don't write them down. I create them in my head and discard them when I'm done). And sometimes, I'm the protagonist of my own stories; taking up the name Persephone Frost (she's a brunette with dark, piercing eyes and soft skin tone). She's one of my more recent creations (I haven't gotten her middle name down yet. I'm considering Azar. Contrast ;)); additionally, my virtual alias on most forums and communities. Past heroines include Alexandra Catherine Winter (all ice-related themes. I know. She has dirty blonde hair and grey eyes. I must have been thinking about Russia). All of my protagonists are NTs of some kind.

[ShaiGar]

Voldemort's my favorite character myself; but I like him better when he was Tom Riddle (A LOT better looking. Voldemort look demented).

I think Ayn Rand has INTJ heroes because she's an INTJ herself. Most of the heroes in my own stories are INTJ (no, I usually don't write them down. I create them in my head and discard them when I'm done). And sometimes, I'm the protagonist of my own stories; taking up the name Persephone Frost (she's a brunette with dark, piercing eyes and soft skin tone). She's one of my more recent creations (I haven't gotten her middle name down yet. I'm considering Azar. Contrast ;)); additionally, my virtual alias on most forums and communities. Past heroines include Alexandra Catherine Winter (all ice-related themes. I know. She has dirty blonde hair and grey eyes. I must have been thinking about Russia). All of my protagonists are NTs of some kind.

Voldemort was a fool. I could have killed him with a silenced sniper rifle. He vastly underestimated technologies that he could easily have used. Snape was clearly a traumatised INTP.

Consider the middle name "Emerald". Persephone Emerald Frost.

[Chimerical]

Some of the villains aren't really the bad guy if you think about it. They want to change the world and improve it. They're going to make changes for the good and then some asswhipe jumps in the way waving a magical sword around and fucks shit up. But it all depends on ones perspective and to what extreme you're going to do this. The F's don't believe the end ever justifies to means most of the time, but a T thinks that if the final result is a good one who cares how you got to it.

But it does annoy me watching a villain of superior intelligence lose to some dumbshit who fights with brute strength [unless he/she's just random and unpredictable and wins that way]. I would like a series that's like a reversed Superman situation where the hero is smart as hell, but the villains ridiculously over powered and not stupid but not the brightest star in the sky either.

[ShaiGar]

For instance Hannibal Lector. I liked him after hearing that he ate a cellist who played off key in order to make the rest of the orchestra sound right. Efficient, Vindictive.

[Haphazard]

What I've noticed is that a lot of villains have both Ni and Ti as their main functions, which is impossible according to MBTI, and also would lead to an unbalanced person. The only reason why the label INTJ is slapped onto them is because they're organized.

Sometimes MBTI applies to fictional characters, and sometimes it doesn't... Usually, villains are unbalanced when it comes to functions and get combinations that are impossible in real life -- thus that, in some respect, most villains are mentally ill.

As much as I love Hannibal Lecter, I wouldn't say he's INTJ. He's a sociopath. No matter what anybody says, there IS a difference...

[Uberfuhrer]

I don't think villains are mentally ill (I don't even think there is a such thing as mental illness other than a condition that causes personal stress), I think they just see the world from a nonconformist perspective.

So while Hannibal Lecter is socially abnormal (also known as nonconformist), he is probably psychologically sane because he never appears to be under any kind of emotional stress. Who are we to judge that a person is psychologically ill? That's like automatically assuming that someone has a stomachache without even asking the person if his stomach is hurting.

[Rowan]

I don't think villains are mentally ill (I don't even think there is a such thing as mental illness other than a condition that causes personal stress), I think they just see the world from a nonconformist perspective.

I keep telling people this, but no matter how much I torture them they refuse to understand.

[Haphazard]

I don't think villains are mentally ill (I don't even think there is a such thing as mental illness other than a condition that causes personal stress), I think they just see the world from a nonconformist perspective.

So while Hannibal Lecter is socially abnormal (also known as nonconformist), he is probably psychologically sane because he never appears to be under any kind of emotional stress. Who are we to judge that a person is psychologically ill? That's like automatically assuming that someone has a stomachache without even asking the person if his stomach is hurting.

Not all villains are mentally ill, but some of them are. There's a difference between deviation from the norm and outright psycopathy.

The problem with Hannibal Lecter is that he has no reasoning for most of his actions. He may be very calm, collected, and calculating when executing these actions, but there was no reason for him to do the actions that merited him a lifelong stay in the mental facility he was in at the beginning of the movie.

He truly was doing things for no reason -- it wasn't a lust for power or anything like that. The fact that he was a danger to others was why he was locked up in solitary confinement.

[TheLastMohican]

The problem with Hannibal Lecter is that he has no reasoning for most of his actions.

He most certainly did have reasoning. It was twofold: First, the victim was doing something he found unsavory, and second, the victim himself was savory.

[Haphazard]

He most certainly did have reasoning. It was twofold: First, the victim was doing something he found unsavory, and second, the victim himself was savory.

Okay... that made me laugh. :laugh:

[Uberfuhrer]

Some people's reasoning is incomprehensible to others. I'm sure Hannibal Lecter had subjective reasoning behind his actions.

[TheLastMohican]

Okay... that made me laugh. :laugh:

But...I was being serious.

[Haphazard]

But...I was being serious.

I know, but you presented it in a hilarious way.

'Mental Illness,' as a term, was invented to regulate human psychology, for better or for worse. After a certain point, it's difficult to apply MBTI to people. Compounding to this that Hannibal Lecter is a fictional character, and therefore his personality doesn't have to make sense... well, it doesn't make him an INTJ, that's for sure. A lot of the characters described here don't make any sense when forced into the MBTI, either through lack of information about them or use of major contradictory functions.

And you have to admit... Hannibal Lecter was dangerous, if we completely discredit the idea of 'mental illness.' Locking him up like that was protecting the many at the expense of the few. Generally a smart idea.

[Capwolf]

There's no way House is an "S." He may be observant when it comes to symptoms, but most of his theories are hunches. He also has no respect whatsoever for rules or authority. He does everything his own way, and though at times he comes off as a thrill seeker, watch the way he approaches his thrill-seeking. He doesn't engage prostitutes because its thrilling, he does it because he needs to get off and doesn't want to waste time seducing someone. The drug habit is perfectly congruent with an INTJ. Male INTJ's are one of the three types overrepresented among substance abusers. Also, he rarely risks killing the patient. More often, a cure he wants to try could severely handicap them, which he argues is far better than death. I don't think this is a thrill-seeking behavior. House views patients as puzzles to be solved and he doesn't like to waste time in solving them.

He also tends to follow his hunches about people. When his patients are a young married couple who seem to be madly in love, House assumes it's an STD and that the husband is cheating. There's nothing to support this hunch; it's based solely on House's views of humanity as a whole. He applies his analysis of the big picture to individual cases.
He has hunches based on experiments and observations: SP. He's tinkering with it to see what works. The fact that he can apply general rules--usually across the board: everyone lies, invariably assume the worst--in absence of viewable facts doesn't mean that he's N. As a doctor, he would have been trained to do that sort of thing. It's not as though Ss are incapable of generalizing, any more than we are incapable of making concrete observations. And the fact that he doesn't actually try to kill anyone (although I'd argue that he often does risk life, not just injury) doesn't mean that he's not SP. What appears to be N is intelligence, logic, observation, and experimentation.

I agree that he isn't a big fan of personal change and has control/competence issues, but those are not traits that are limited to Js, and particularly not NJs. His "need for closure" seems much more like a "need to know" to me. I don't even see the appeal of J, and I still "need" to know things that can be known definitively. It's about curiosity and about winning a game and solving a problem.* With the added exciting element of an unknown time limit--which House doesn't seem to have a problem with. You'd think that a J would hate to be out of control of the schedule. ;)


*Ps are not, in fact, incapable of following through if we think there's any point to doing it--lordrrr.

[Uberfuhrer]

I think House is an ENTP.

[nemo]

I think House is an ENTP.

I do too.

But I do think Dr. Cox is NTJ, although I'm leaning to ENTJ for some reason. But it's hard to tell (and I think the Cox-House differences are telling if you dig deeply enough).

I also think Temperance Brennan is another INTJ, and one of my favorites because it's interesting to see a female play that character.

(And does Booth annoy the piss out of you guys as much as he does me?)

I want to say Eric Foreman from House, MD is an INTJ too.

[athenian200]

I was considering Trent the Magician from the Xanth series, but in some ways he seems more "E." What say you?

Everyone probably already knows about Jean-Luc from Star Trek: The Next Generation being suspected INTJ...

Can't think of any more right now.

[Rowan]

I would say Tōru Honda is an INTJ; he is from Yukio Mishima’s final novel in the ‘Sea of Fertility tetralogy’ ‘The Decay of the Angel’.

[Claptonian]

He has hunches based on experiments and observations: SP. He's tinkering with it to see what works. The fact that he can apply general rules--usually across the board: everyone lies, invariably assume the worst--in absence of viewable facts doesn't mean that he's N. As a doctor, he would have been trained to do that sort of thing. It's not as though Ss are incapable of generalizing, any more than we are incapable of making concrete observations. And the fact that he doesn't actually try to kill anyone (although I'd argue that he often does risk life, not just injury) doesn't mean that he's not SP. What appears to be N is intelligence, logic, observation, and experimentation.

I disagree. Keirsey says the N "sometimes finds complex ideas coming to him as a complete whole, unable to explain how he knew." This describes House to a "T." This is why House often clashes with others; he's certain his solution is correct, but he can't provide enough concrete, reality-based evidence to support it.

House strikes me as a perfect example of an extreme NT. Keirsey describes how NT's have a need for competency, which absolutely describes House. In one episode, House describes how he realized at a young age that the most important thing is to be "right," to be the master of your field. (He also talks about how when you're always right, it doesn't matter whether people like your or not; they have to accept you, which strikes me as a very Introverted attitude.)

Keirsey also talks about how, even when it comes to recreation, NT's demand competence and improvement. This absolutely fits House. In the episode where his leg is healed, we see him jogging like a madman, pushing himself to the limit and trying to improve himself. We also see him attempting to master a trick on a skateboard. He's not enjoying recreation for the sake of recreation, as the SP might; he's trying to master it.

I agree that he isn't a big fan of personal change and has control/competence issues, but those are not traits that are limited to Js, and particularly not NJs. His "need for closure" seems much more like a "need to know" to me.

In some cases, yes (and, as I pointed out before, the "need to know" is a stereotypical trait of the NT). I'm not 100% sure that House is a J, but I suspect it. He does formulate plans quite often (particularly plans against Cuddy and Wilson). His lack of control over his schedule is a good point, but I'm a "J" and I don't have complete control over my work schedule. Things come up out of the blue all the time, and while it's a little annoying, I also feel it's a good test of my competence; I view it as a challenge, which is the same way House seems to take time-sensitive problems.

There are also many episodes where House does maintain control over his schedule; he goes home while his staff stay up all night running tests. I'm not saying this is proof he's a J, I'm just saying that he doesn't always surrender control of his schedule.

Really, though, it seems like the only reason to commit to P over J is if he's an S, because he's so clearly not an SJ. If he's an N, I could easily see him as a J.

[Capwolf]

He doesn't have to be N or J just because he can draw connections and conclusions. I mean, yes, he's not SJ like Foreman, but I don't think he's a J, either way.

If he's not S, I'd go for ENTP (because he's definitely not INTP either). But I think that's foolishness. ;) The best part for him isn't that he's solved the case, it's working through the problem. I see what you're saying about trying to keep his own schedule, but: he likes to project/protect the asshole image; he has a chronic pain condition. Anyway, it's not like they need him to stand there watching the results come out. If he's going to waste his time and energy on that, why'd he hire them anyway?

Regarding his jogging and skateboarding, it seems to me that he does it for the sake of doing it/being able to do it, and he wants to be better and enjoy the ability after so long without. He used to be athletic, and has seriously failed to adapt to that after years gone. It just seems that there's an overwhelming amount of S in him, between his physical obsession, the observational strength, the drugs/drinking, the insistence on having someone actually go to the patient's house instead of relying on words/symptoms/tests, and so on. (And don't forget, ISTP is the most NT-seeming of all S types.)

[Claptonian]

...the observational strength...

He may be good at observation, but the thing that makes him House are the longshot theories he forms based on those observations, his ability to look beyond the observations, and his hunches.

...the drugs/drinking...

INTJ's are one of the three male types overrepresented in substance abuse statistics, so I don't think this is an argument against him being an N.

...the insistence on having someone actually go to the patient's house instead of relying on words/symptoms/tests...

He does this because he doesn't take things at face value. Even if his patient looks happy/single/straight/square, he still acts on his hunches and his view of the big picture and insists that someone go find more information to verify his theory.

Also, notice that House never goes to the patient's house himself. He doesn't need to see the place, he only needs the information there. This doesn't seem to fit with the hands-on SP type.

House definitely has some ISTP characteristics, but it still seems to me that his defining characteristic is his committment to his hunches. His theories tend not to be based on facts or direct observations.

Hell, the formula of the show is:

1. Patient has mysterious illness.
2. House comes up with a Theory.
3. Theory is disproven.
4. Repeat steps 2 & 3 as desired.
5. House comes up with Wild Hunch.
6. Cuddy/patient/patient's family/police won't let House act on Wild Hunch.
7. House acts on Wild Hunch anyway.
8. Wild Hunch is proven correct.
9. House sits alone in the dark and plays piano/takes drugs/listens to music.

[blue tie]

House cannot be an E, for the numerous times that his "social incongruency" has been brought up. During the Christmas party, who went home to brood by himself? House.

I think the only factor left is the J/P part. The jumping to wild but unable-to-articulate conclusions is definitely N. And he has no problem cutting people down in the name of a solution. So T.

Hmm just Googled a little bit... He has to be a J. The whole listing stuff out? And he likes to be the one in control. He doesn't seem to be one to let life happen to him as much as he is willing upon life.

[Capwolf]

House cannot be an E, for the numerous times that his "social incongruency" has been brought up. During the Christmas party, who went home to brood by himself? House.

I think the only factor left is the J/P part. The jumping to wild but unable-to-articulate conclusions is definitely N. And he has no problem cutting people down in the name of a solution. So T.

Hmm just Googled a little bit... He has to be a J. The whole listing stuff out? And he likes to be the one in control. He doesn't seem to be one to let life happen to him as much as he is willing upon life.

Yes, well, I disagree on both points. I don't think he's ENTP, but I think that (from a whole-type perspective--as the same trait will present differently in different types) before I think INTP or INTJ. We see the same evidence differently, obviously: I see S where you see J, and P where you see N. It'd be pointless for me to keep going over the same points when I know we're going to come to the same different conclusions.

[OddFactor]

Howard Roark, the protagonist of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, is an INTJ. And how I love that book/that character.

[ShaiGar]

The problem with Hannibal Lecter is that he has no reasoning for most of his actions. He may be very calm, collected, and calculating when executing these actions, but there was no reason for him to do the actions that merited him a lifelong stay in the mental facility he was in at the beginning of the movie.

He truly was doing things for no reason -- it wasn't a lust for power or anything like that. The fact that he was a danger to others was why he was locked up in solitary confinement.
Hannibal Lecter (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.): Rudeness is an epidemic.

Lady Murasaki Shikibu (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.): [hugs Hannibal] Where have you been? You smell of smoke and blood.
[lifts army dog tag from under his shirt]
Lady Murasaki Shikibu (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.): Where did you go?
Hannibal Lecter (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.): I found them. The men who killed Mischa. I have their names.

Originally he killed in revenge.
Then he killed to remove Rudeness from society. Use that theory while watching the movies again and you'll understand him. Perhaps even like him.

[azelismia]

there is a difference between psychopath and Thinking function which seems to be oft ignored. I think many of the villains who have been typecast as intj are not. they're just nuts.

[Antares]

For instance Hannibal Lector. I liked him after hearing that he ate a cellist who played off key in order to make the rest of the orchestra sound right. Efficient, Vindictive.

I don't think that's a good enough reason to kill someone, and on second thoughts, a lot of cellists played off key in my school's concert today 0.o But a lot of winds did too.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Scar, from the Lion King!!!

mwoohahaha... my favorite villain

This is a little off topic but humor me if you will.

Are you saying that Scar is one of your favorite INTJ villains; or that he is just one of your favorite villains period?



Scar is also one of my favorite villains; Jeremy Irons really brought him to life.

[Freak]

How do you see Michael Corleone (The Godfather) ?

[Phrixos]

What would a movie made for INTJ's look like? Would an evil ESFP trying to take over the world between cuddling puppies be believable?

haha asif we would go see a movie.

[Richard0612]

haha asif we would go see a movie.

If they made that one [ESFP world-takeover] I'd certainly see it!

[errrzarrr]

Typelogic dot com lists Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs) and Professor Moriarty (Sherlock Holmes) as INTJs. I can’t help but notice that, if these two villains fit the type so well, then so must Steerpike (Gormenghast), Orochimaru (Naruto), Iago (Othello), Sergey Petrovich Zinovyev (The Shooting Party), Baron Vladimir Harkonnen (Dune), Jon Irenicus (Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn), Mayuri Kurotsuchi (Bleach), Lucas Romer (Restless), Vicious (Cowboy Bebop), Johan Liebert (Monster), Muska (Laputa), Sir Humphrey Appleby (Yes Minister), Juliette (Histoire de Juliette ou les Prospérités du vice), The Underground Man (Notes from Underground), Patrick Bateman (American Psycho), Mr. Freeze (Batman), The Scarecrow (Batman) and so on and so forth; from popular culture (Orochimaru) to canonical fiction (Iago) INTJs frequently appear as either outright villains (Muska) or morally ambiguous (Sir Humphrey Appleby). Why is this?

Perhaps I’m mistaken? My knowledge of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator in particular and Psychological Typing in general is limited. Perhaps many (or at least some) of these villains don’t fit the INTJ type? Maybe there are an equal number of heroic INTJs in fiction; I can think of a handful: Sherlock Holmes, Clarice Starling, L, Near, Gregory House and Uryū Ishida. Anyway, I would be interested in feedback on this odd correlation between INTJs and villains if, in fact, there is any such correlation.

I would vote YES. YOu mentioned Orochimaru as INTJ and I add Sazuke too as villian (and Kakachi too he is very quiet and deliberated but not villian). There's Mr. Burns on The simpsons too.

edit: Erm, on the GodFather Trilogy, there's Michael and Vito Corleone (both intj ). Powerful Masterminds of the mafia on US, able to do crime, influenciate, politics, senators, judges and lawyers and priests.





errrzarrr added to this post, 7 minutes and 10 seconds later...

Stop reading my mind! I actually had an idea for a story the other day which I may start writing where an organisation tries to rule the world through subliminal messages encouraging everyone to 'love each other' and 'love' this wacko leader. It works for 5 years until a group of scientists [read: INTJs] who escaped the brainwashing come up with a plan to stop the loonies. The corporation's plan has one fatal weakness: these 'mind messages' need to have their power increased every year as people become resistant to them. While the power is tinkered with, the shielding around the brainwashing satellites is down. The INTJs get a satellite into space to broadcast a 'shock' message waking up the populace and war ensues when this mad organisation tries to take contol by force. [Think INTJs vs ESFx!].

oooh that reminds me a very very good, but not popular movie. The protagonist Harrison Bergeron on the movie with the same name. I bet, he is INTJ!





[i]errrzarrr added to this post, 5 minutes and 36 seconds later...

Some of the villains aren't really the bad guy if you think about it. They want to change the world and improve it. They're going to make changes for the good and then some asswhipe jumps in the way waving a magical sword around and fucks shit up. But it all depends on ones perspective and to what extreme you're going to do this. The F's don't believe the end ever justifies to means most of the time, but a T thinks that if the final result is a good one who cares how you got to it.

But it does annoy me watching a villain of superior intelligence lose to some dumbshit who fights with brute strength [unless he/she's just random and unpredictable and wins that way]. I would like a series that's like a reversed Superman situation where the hero is smart as hell, but the villains ridiculously over powered and not stupid but not the brightest star in the sky either.

Yeah, those "villians" are almost ever very realistic, and percieved as sour persons.





errrzarrr added to this post, 6 minutes and 50 seconds later...

If they made that one [ESFP world-takeover] I'd certainly see it!

That would be a humoristic one, very hilarious. Like those high school movies.

[DrEast]

If they made that one [ESFP world-takeover] I'd certainly see it!

Mayor, Season 3 of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer. No?

[darkkodiak]

Well, if INTJs are usually villains then I consider that alright because it's usually the villain I remember in a story or movie and almost never the hero.

[airshiplogic]

I think it's the perceived view of INTJs being antisocial making them, at face value, villians.

[Uberfuhrer]

In mainstream American movies, INTJs do indeed tend to be villains. Because as a personality type, INTJ represents the complete opposite of American cultural values, which are largely ESFP. (This is possibly also why American INTJs can be very bitter people.)

It's also noteworthy that American movie villains also tend to be the more intellectually inclined than the hero.

On the other hand, more serious movies have tended to focus on an oppressive SJ authority that tries to limit the expansion of other temperamental values.

[Erika Redmark]

An INTJ as a supporting "good" character could be someone on the protagonists' side who is only minimally friendly to them personally, but they help each other out: like (surely there are better examples, but…) Erika Redmark from the computer game series Exile and Avernum. She's a powerful force for good, a reclusive archmage, who helps the heroes on their missions because their mission also furthers hers.

[aaakiii]

i haven't seen too many episodes of house, but from what i have seen, i think that i would agree with most of you and say that he's an intj.

anyway, what about miranda priestly (meryl streep's character) from "the devil wears prada"?

i think that she is a textbook case of an intj. she is very private, and needs to keep her personal and psychological space very quiet, which is indicative of an i. like when she attends parties (even her own) she will be there for the first 10 or 15 minutes, and then leave. she NEVER goes into details about anything, and she kind of just expects people to know what she is talking about. (ie; "get me that table at that store that i liked on Madison"). doesn't give a crap about what other people feel. and has a strong desire to be in control. apart from all of this, she also fiercely independent and does things however she wants them to be, and is also a strategist. an example of this is listed below. it's a spoiler, so if you haven't seen the movie and want to, you should skip over it. =)

**SPOILER**
there is this part in the movie where her boss is trying to find someone to replace her because of how much it costs to keep her at the helm of her magazine. i guess she anticipated this and throughout her career had been discovering new talent and catapulting their careers in exchange for their absolute loyalty to her. so she told her boss that the person who would be replacing her would be unsuitable for the job and gave him a list of the people (now at the top of their respective fields) who would follow her to wherever she went, thus making it quite impossible for the magazine to retain its prestige.
**END SPOILER**


i was also questioning what i thought her type was, because she runs a fashion magazine, and isn't fashion and the whole "finer things in life" thing more suited for "s" types?

any thoughts on this?

[PureWhispers]

I would agree that Miranda Priestly seems pretty INTJ-ish (and for what it's worth, Meryl Streep is an INTP). And while fashion is generally more often attributed to S types, I think her intuition outweighs the possibility. After all, she was completely on top of her game, particularly with her "planning ahead for the (inevitable) worst" as you pointed out.

[Thrifty]

Byakuya would seem to be a little more of an INTJ than Uchiha would, the only thing that's really fueling his drive is to get revenge, a deeply felt feeling. His brother, Itachi Uchiha seems to be more of a INTJ to me though.

Itachi Uchiha was INFJ, with an INTJ mask.

I think House is an ENTP.

House is INTJ. He seems ENTP in his behavior, but he is INTJ (something like 20-I 70-N 50-T 20-J)


Hell, the formula of the show is:

1. Patient has mysterious illness.
2. House comes up with a Theory.
3. Theory is disproven.
4. Repeat steps 2 & 3 as desired.
5. House comes up with Wild Hunch.
6. Cuddy/patient/patient's family/police won't let House act on Wild Hunch.
7. House acts on Wild Hunch anyway.
8. Wild Hunch is proven correct.
9. House sits alone in the dark and plays piano/takes drugs/listens to music.


Yep, that basically spells out he is Ni + Te.


Another INTJ: the protagonist of Prison Break.

[NephilimAzrael]

Dream (Morpheus) from the Sandman comics is either INTJ or INFJ.
Destiny is an INTJ character.

Morpheus' personality:

He is sometimes slow when dealing with humor, occasionally insensitive, often self-obsessed, and is very slow to forgive or forget a slight.

Morpheus is consistently aware of his responsibilities, both those to other people and those that go with his territory. This trait makes him both dependable and fair-minded. It is implied that before his imprisonment he was in some ways crueler and more blind to his flaws.

He consistently strives for understanding of himself and of the other Endless, but is ultimately defeated by his most tragic flaw, his inability to accept change. As Lucien remarks in The Wake when asked (by Matthew, the raven) "Why did it happen? Why did he let it happen?", "Charitably...I think...sometimes, perhaps, one must change or die. And in the end, there were, perhaps, limits to how much he could let himself change."

[Markam]

Lord Havelock Vetinari, Patrician of Ankh-Morpork seems to ge INTJ.

[Kisai]

I do too.

But I do think Dr. Cox is NTJ, although I'm leaning to ENTJ for some reason. But it's hard to tell (and I think the Cox-House differences are telling if you dig deeply enough).

Dr. Cox, after accidently killing a familiar patient with a rabies-infected organ donation, left his job, went into his house, and preferred to be by himself. The hospital staff took turns coming to visit him. He did not talk to any of them for a week (or so).

The E/I dichotomy is one that extreme E's and I's overlook. It *isn't* related to how well you are at public speaking or how shy you feel to be. It is related to where you go to relax, the company of other people or by yourself or a few close friends. You can be a snarky, tirade-spewing introvert. You can even be a manager or a waiter or someone who deals with many people every day and still be an introvert.





Kisai added to this post, 16 minutes and 35 seconds later...

I always thought he was an INTP, but I guess he is an INTJ. I hate him though. Light is a much cooler character and he is also an INTJ.

Since we're on the topic of anime. My favorite fictional character, Sesshoumaru is definitely an INTJ.

L isn't J about anything (except about handcuffing himself to Light, maybe). When Soichirou Yagami and the police disagree with his methods, he's perfectly content to let them do their own thing as long as they don't interfere with his investigation.

As for Light? Perhaps he's an INFJ gone horribly wrong? I say this because his motivation is to make a truly better moralistic world, rather than to rule or control it. He's also very motivated by his feelings throught the story, willing to kill anyone who gets one better on him.

Sesshoumaru is also defintely an INTJ. :)

[Thrifty]

L isn't J about anything (except about handcuffing himself to Light, maybe). When Soichirou Yagami and the police disagree with his methods, he's perfectly content to let them do their own thing as long as they don't interfere with his investigation.

As for Light? Perhaps he's an INFJ gone horribly wrong? I say this because his motivation is to make a truly better moralistic world, rather than to rule or control it. He's also very motivated by his feelings throught the story, willing to kill anyone who gets one better on him.



L is almost a stereotypical INTP. The only part that doesn't quite fit with his character is when he reveals to Light that he knows Light has won and he is going to die, while he is drying his feet.

I think Light is INTJ. Some INTJs, particularly Enneagram 1's (called 'Reformer') , are very idealistic and would have attempted to do what he tried to do (get rid of the scum of the world, etc). These INTJs are very idealistic despite being NT. I'm pretty sure he is Ni + Te (He envisions plan [Ni] -> he creates plan [Te]).

[Wufnu]

I was going to say Inspector Javert from Les Miserables but looking it up online apparently he's been pegged as an ISTJ.

[intj5784]

what mbti would james bond be?

[LordMaiestas]

what mbti would james bond be?

Morning for the action

Night for the fun

Definitely not a INTJ

[IgnoranceIsKind]

Does anyone watch Showtime's Dexter? After the first episode, the one thing that was immediate to me was that Dexter himself is an INTJ.

[moon]

Does anyone watch Showtime's Dexter? After the first episode, the one thing that was immediate to me was that Dexter himself is an INTJ.

Sure, started a little thread about Dex (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

[Thrifty]

what mbti would james bond be?

I think James Bond is ISTP.

[Trym]

Cool thread.

Donnie Darko. Go, pick me apart.

[Thrifty]

Cool thread.

Donnie Darko. Go, pick me apart.

I would say INTJ. He seems to have Dominant Ni (he's very weird deep inside even if he doesn't appear, has visions, etc), His T is low though.