ENFP-INTJ relationships

[Provoker]

I am looking for information on INTJ-ENFP relationships. Incidentally, I have a huge crush on this ENFP who is charming, popular, charismatic, wild and passionate. I am interested in genuine feedback from people who know from experience: What are some of the pros and cons of the INTJ-ENFP pair??

[Colette]

Have a look at this page - might be useful for you:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Fergie]

I'm dating an ENFP and while I love him, he annoys the stuffing out of me sometimes.

We both function from our N, but he's so extroverted that he actually thought when we first started dating that 'giving me space' meant he sat on the other end of the couch!
He has trouble understanding why I'm not as emotional and into feelings as him and I have trouble tolerating his tendency towards self-pity. But we make it work in our own way. I call him when I've had a bad day for sympathy and he calls me when his car breaks down. (He knows to call his mother when he needs sympathy. He tells me I give too much advice and not enough hugs.)

But on the positive side dating an N-type person is so much fun. He 'gets' me in that way - knowing that the rules are fluid depending on the circumstances, being able to accept that pure logic is a guide not authority and that attitude updates reality. We balance each other out a bit too. He's helped me develop an understanding of my F side and I've helped him with his T function. As much as I would really like to have a nice INT boyfriend, I know there are gifts in variety.

[blue tie]

My best friend (and the best friend role occupier before that, I think) is an ENFP. We tend to argue a lot, I guess since we differ on so many letters. But it's all in good fun. The best part has to be the unity of the N. I can come up with some random thing and he'll be like, I agree, or I was thinking the same thing!

It's a great breath of fresh air to see someone (relatively) normal and well-adjusted to have the same thinking pattern as you, even if he's a little emotional or sloppy every once in a while. You get to play off of each other's strengths. I know it's very easy to "live in the mind" in excess. So when I'm around him, I get to loosen up or give up control and just hang out and do social things.

I don't know what I'd do without him and I could only wish the same joy* upon my INTJ brethren and their ENFP relationships.

* This isn't actual joy. Just a simulacrum of joy, intended to replace the concept of "feeling". Thinking and analysis will resume in 3, 2, 1...

[Parallel]

I love ENFP's! One of my best friends is an ENFP and I find that I tend to attract ENFP's and surprisingly I completely relate and get along fantastically with almost all of them. I feel like ENFP's are just the extrovert version of an INTJ so even though the two types might seem very different at first, I think they have some kind of similar core. But I think this only seems to be true if the INTJ is not too much of an introvert and leans more towards extroversion than most other INTJ's.

My ENFP best friend and I used to say to each other if only one of us was a male, we'd totally marry each other, but neither of us is gay so...haha. Yeah, there are times when ENFPs can be annoying to an INTJ because they can be so ridiculously frivolous and just ridiculous in general, but it depends on how you take it. I just find them amusing and generally awesome while other INTJs may not want to deal with them at all. In general though, I think INTJ's and ENFP's make an ideal match. But of course that's just a generalization as individuals can differ so much even if they are the same type.

As for INTJ's and ENFP's having a romantic relationship, the ENFP will probably bring out the fun side of the INTJ while the INTJ brings out the somewhat serious side of an ENFP and they'll meet somewhere in the middle and I find, always have fun since they seem to really get each other despite seeming so different.

The only thing I can see as a con in a romantic relationship between an INTJ and an ENFP is that if the two are not completely devoted to each other, the ENFP tends to have a very short attention span with people and without meaning to hurt the other person might come off as always looking for the next fun person that catches their attention as they are very fun-loving and fun-chasing.

[Colette]

I don't think I could date a P of any description. All the Ps I know irritate me too much because of their chronic lateness and disorganization. I know there are lots of positive qualities about them, but these differences would just annoy me too much, I think. ENFJ would be ok.

[nightengale]

The way I put it- INTJs have this morbid fascination with ENFPs. Kind of like when you're driving and you drive by a car accident. You want to stare at how messed up the cars are and all the flashing lights attract you like a bug to a porchlight (*zzzzapp*). Maybe it's just me, but the way ENFPs work, I just can't help but be fascinated.

One ENFP guy in particular, I swear, could be a revolutionist. His mind just thinks on a whole new level. I know an ENFP girl who balances me out perfectly...and an ENFP guy who is, I swear insane. He wears hawaiin shirts and shorts, patterns and colors completely different, all year long- even in winter. He's wanted to be a marine biologist, search for treasure in the carribbean, sail boats across the world,...NO DIRECTION FOR HIS LIFE...it's always changing. drives me crazy :P

[Antares]

I don't think I could date a P of any description. All the Ps I know irritate me too much because of their chronic lateness and disorganization. I know there are lots of positive qualities about them, but these differences would just annoy me too much, I think. ENFJ would be ok.

Agreed; I don't find their messiness attractive at all (not that P is inherently bad. It's just my opinion), but I'm drawn to ENTP and ESTP's. The rest of the P's... Nah. My favorite types are (besides INTJ) ENTJ, ESTJ, ENTP, ESTP and ISTJ. I have an ENFP friend, and she's just so emotional... It scares me.

[c0ke]

I went out with an ENFP for a while. She was GREAT in bed but I got bored of her always saying stupid shit.





c0ke added to this post, 1 minutes and 16 seconds later...

the first few months will be great, then you will get bored as hell of her

[Josephine1012]

I went out with an ENFP for a while. She was GREAT in bed but I got bored of her always saying stupid shit.





c0ke added to this post, 1 minutes and 16 seconds later...

the first few months will be great, then you will get bored as hell of her

*sigh*

You might be making up a rule based on a single experience. Just saying.

[Marcus]

You might be making up a rule based on a single experience. Just saying.

You're constantly figuring us out, Jos. :)

[Josephine1012]

You're constantly figuring us out, Jos. :)

That's why I'm here!!

To spy on your secret club :lovestruck:

[dogwoodlover]

I went out with an ENFP for a while. She was GREAT in bed but I got bored of her always saying stupid shit.





c0ke added to this post, 1 minutes and 16 seconds later...

the first few months will be great, then you will get bored as hell of her


My ENFP girlfriend is smarter than just about everyone I know (except for me!), and after three years I'm still not bored of her.


Our relationship is great. I think INTJ-ENFP works pretty damn well.

Though, I might add, ENTP females are just hot as all hell.

[Sinequanon]

*sigh*

You might be making up a rule based on a single experience. Just saying.
Are you saying that ENFPs aren't all good in bed? I'm confused...

[Henry]

My ENFP girlfriend is smarter than just about everyone I know (except for me!), and after three years I'm still not bored of her.


Our relationship is great. I think INTJ-ENFP works pretty damn well.

Agreed, mostly because I think our type is "the ultimate asshole" type and ENF is probably our best match for just about anything to compensate for our weaknesses without getting on our nerves too much.

Though, I might add, ENTP females are just hot as all hell.

Want to know how I know you're gay?

[Josephine1012]

Are you saying that ENFPs aren't all good in bed? I'm confused...

:whip: Watch it, Mister!

[Caramel]

I went out with an ENFP for a while. She was GREAT in bed but I got bored of her always saying stupid shit.

the first few months will be great, then you will get bored as hell of her

Rubbish.

Generalizing ENFPs based on one bad experience.. you fail. :thumbsdown:

My ENFP boyfriend and I are together for almost seven years now, and boring or stupid are the last words I'd use to describe him. My two ENFP friends are also anything but stupid or boring.

Consider this: Maybe its just her. (Or, dare I say it, maybe its just you?) :)

[nosugarintea]

From experience:

When INTJs understand that they are the mature ones and allow ENFPs to annoy them, the possibility exists for a real relationship, often deep and long-term. It all depends on you, not the ENFP (But you know that already.)

You're lucky if you make it work with an ENFP that is younger than 30. (And probably quite tolerant.)

I'm 26 now and am only beginning to learn how annoying I am. I suspect it will take another 2 years to manage it... at least a little.

But I'm loveable. Haha :P

[shattered night]

Mmm...ENFP's. :lovestruck:

I am dating an ENFP guy now, have been for the better part of a year (...as mentioned, he does have a tendency to fly off after new people for awhile, but I'm distant and confident enough to handle this whereas the new people tend to get annoyed with him after awhile)

It's been quite the experience. I was completely captivated with him for a long time. Still am, though in a more manageable way now that I've known him longer. And I think he is learning to appreciate the fact that I can handle his annoying nature.

Honestly, at first, I thought he was more like me than anyone else I had ever met. Imagine my surprise to learn he was the opposite of me on so many letters. I agree with the other people who have said INTJ's and ENFP's have similar cores.

Point being, I think INTJs and ENFPs balance each other swimmingly.

[bigjesse8]

I'm looking for ENFP's to date. Any ideas on where I should be going to meet them? (Just north of Minneapolis)

[Ace1337]

About the cores, you don't have similar "cores", you are just both N and the ENFP adjusts it's personality to anyone. ENTJ and INTJ have similar cores. Every type feels that the ENFP understands them because it's their main goal in life, to bring out the best in others and to have fun ofc.
My ENFP friend tells me that he always gets people to open up even when he doesn't try to. He just says the most supportive words automatically and everyone thinks he understands them. ENFPs are usually kind hearted, and they can be very beneficial to an INTJ because they'll open you up to new experiences and bring a little spontaneity in your life. Just don't try to be partners with them or to do business with them. They just like people too much to do business.

[Zilal]

The two people I've fallen hardest for were both ENFPs. The toughest thing about maintaining relationships with either of them wasn't their behavior, it was my infatuation. I dunno, I think it's probably a bad sign to begin with if you're attracted to somebody because they're everything you're not. It really seemed to bring out my insecurities and I was constantly getting hurt. I don't think it was really because they were ENFPs, so the caveat doesn't necessarily apply to you. But it is important to think about why you're attracted to someone, especially if they're your opposite in some ways, and what you may subconsciously expect them to be/do for you.

As for interacting with anyone close who's got a different style than you, I think it's important to always ask yourself, when you're hurt or irritated, whether they mean to do that to you. It seems simple but I think sometimes you really do have to constantly remind yourself that they're not trying to be irritating.

[Von Hase]

I'm an ENFP, and I have more than a few INTJs in my life. Here's my interpretation of the relationships I have with them.

We compliment exceedingly well. This is likely due to this 'core' thing that keeps getting mentioned. We 'get' each other. The reason for this is likely very simple. In an EN-P, iNtuition is the dominant extraverted function. The same is true of IN-J's. Therefore, ENFPs and INTJs (as do ENTPs and INFJs) share a world view that is based on intuition first. That's where the strength of the relationship comes in. Our other functions (Extraversion/Introversion, Thinking/Feeling) are at once complimentary and contrary to one another, and therefore balance VERY well. We look at the world in the same way, but approach it very differently.

As friends, I count my INTJs as priceless. You guys have given me so much excellent advice over the years. Your ability to notice the subtle things that I notice, yet reason through them in ways that I can't allows you to constantly teach me and help me improve. Let me assure you that is no small feat, because it is difficult to learn from someone who is unaware of the subtleties that ENFPs are constantly barraged by. There are few in the world who can match ENFPs ability to perceive. Of those that can, they lack the ability that INTJs have, which is you guys also have the ability to explain things to me in ways I hadn't considered. I joke with my INTJs that every time I hang out with them, I gain another half point of IQ.

The down side is that the NT mix causes them to sometimes have trouble reacting to new information. While they have a lot of pattern recognition and are some of the most perceptive people I know, they usually have to process new information in depth before they can act upon it. Granted, once processed they understand it in MUCH greater detail than I ever will. But, I have found that my INTJs are often intractable until they do. This can be a serious problem if decisive action needs to be taken reflexively, or even quickly. I've had more than a few power struggles with my INTJs over this very issue, only to result in them realizing I was right the next day. For example, "We need to go now or we are going to be late." "You need to take this opportunity while it is available." In a lot of ways, my INTJs are so smart that it makes them occasionally dumb. They are correct so often that they trust their intellect implicitly, even when their intuition disagrees. As an ENFP, I never doubt an INTJs capacity for detailed and intricate understanding of patterns and systems. But, my INTJs don't seem to have the capacity to trust me to be right in my areas of strength until they've had a chance to process. Granted, this issue does NOT happen very often, but when it does, it can be a really big deal. As an ENFP, I am hurt that they won't trust me, especially when I can see that part of them agrees with me. As INTJs, I am assuming they are frustrated with my degree of impulsive urgency and demanding. I would dare say that the vast majority of my conflicts with INTJs stem from this one issue.

Surprisingly, I have very few arguments with INTJs over anything other than what I've just mentioned. Even more surprisingly, I've rarely lost an argument with an INTJ, because I don't take a stand unless I KNOW I'm right, and have the wisdom to know not to assume I am right just because I usually am.

INTJs are annoying when they confuse being correct with being right. The difference is very important to ENFPs. Being correct means that reason makes it so. Being right means that wisdom makes it so. Correctness is factual truth. Rightness is philosophical truth. 'The sky is blue' is a factual truth. 'The sky is beautiful' is truthful opinion. 'The sky needs to be unpolluted' is philosophical truth. My INTJs sometimes have trouble distinguishing the latter two, and have a lot of trouble understanding when the latter of the two truths take precedence over the former. For an ENFP, the latter two are the priority through which we affect the world. Correctness is only a tool to help us in our goal, and therefore secondary. Does it matter if the sky is blue so long as it is clean and beautiful? Only if you're using the degree of blueness as a measuring tool for clean or beautiful. We approach life like this. That's why we are 'messy', use the wrong word, can't spell, and all the other various quirks we have that drive you guys nuts. All of those little things are secondary, especially if they are not required to be precise to achieve the philosophical goal. To us logic is a tool to enact philosophy, not the other way around. This is a common point of tension between me and my INTJs, but it's not that big of a deal unless the INTJ is especially willful. Once they've had a chance to process things, and if they agree with my overall goal, they're usually on board 100% and can help the cause to a much greater degree than I ever could, even if the cause is just getting everyone to a movie at the same time.

INTJs are the most fun when they let me do my part, by trusting my abilities and gifts, especially the ones they don't share.

INTJs are the most beneficial when they are bringing to the relationship what I lack.

In romantic relationships, I've found INTJs to be highly stimulating intellectually, but not so much emotionally. We have a lot of fun together, and our friendships are second to none. But, I've never gotten an INTJ to grasp what it is that I need from romance, which is a deeper reflexive selfless emotional interaction. Passion and sensuality, the INTJs are able to do just fine. The problem is that they are a little pragmatic and clinical, and it is always just enough to constantly remind me that we are two people in a room interacting with each other, not two parts of one soul. And that is what I need to feel loved, and to really bring out the best of what I have to offer romantically. I have a few other NF friends in romantic relationships with INTJs, and the complaint is universal. INTJs give us everything we need, except the one thing we need most. "They just don't get it." Is the phrase that we NFs have decided upon. I think it is most obvious in their touch.

If you are in a romantic relationship with an ENFP, you will need to do three things to please them best. As an INTJ, you're very likely already doing everything else. You will need to learn how to let them lead when their strengths are greater than your own, and of course learn to recognize when that is. The simplest way to figure it out is to pay attention to everything about us that fascinates you. Those are the areas we're stronger than you. If a situation could benefit from one of those things, let us do it, and trust us to do it, no matter how confusing it is, or unsettling it is to do something before you've had a chance to process it. That's our element. You've seen us succeed in it often enough that you can stop questioning how we do it, and just accept that we can. Simple logic there. And it's the same logic we apply to you guys. We greatly admire you for all of the things you can do that we can't, and we don't really bother trying to figure out how you do them. They're yours to do. Letting us have control when it is our area of strength without argument or protest tells us that you truly trust and admire us, and that is without a doubt the straightest way to our hearts. The next thing you need to do is pay extremely close attention when we are affectionate with you. We're operating on both an Intuitive AND a Feeling level. That's what makes us such good lovers. Intuition and emotion, complete attentiveness and expression. We want the same in return. If you can overcome your natural ability to be attentive and thoughtful, and step into an area that may not be entirely comfortable for you, you'll be in for the most amazing experiences of your lives. And don't be afraid to be awkward in the process. There isn't an ENFP alive, male or female that won't walk you through it and accept that you are developing a new perspective until you get where you want to be for as long as it takes you to get there. In fact, just making the effort will make us love you more. The last thing you'll need to do is learn to use the intuitive and emotional expression we can teach you, in frequent subtle displays of affection, like caressing our cheek every now and then, holding our hand, or just looking into our eyes with an intuitively emotional sincere expression of love. For us, these things are unconscious, which is why they will reach us so deeply when you do them. They're also the exact reason we're able to entrance people. We won't expect you to ever do these things unconsciously, or assume that they are. However, if you do them for us and you are sincere when you do them, we will love you forever.

I hope this post helps all of you INTJs have better relationships with your ENFPs!

To the chap who claimed the ENFP was the best in bed he'd ever had, I am sorry to have to inform you that you didn't even get to see the half of it. If you'd have been able to accept her for who she was, good and bad, and given her the emotional connection I described, it would have been ten fold because it would have encouraged her to REALLY open up. What you got was just her base operating level sexually. And I can assure you, she was accepting you for who you are which annoyed her just as much as she annoyed you.

[WaeV]

I have an ENFP friend, and she's just so emotional... It scares me. Same here. She's a hypochondriac, and it's just so draining to have to listen to "my ____ hurts" every time I see her. If her emotions were more positive, however, I wouldn't be so put off.

Surprisingly, I have very few arguments with INTJs over anything other than what I've just mentioned. Even more surprisingly, I've rarely lost an argument with an INTJ, because I don't take a stand unless I KNOW I'm right, and have the wisdom to know not to assume I am right just because I usually am. Good call. One person once pointed out that whenever he argued with my INTJ friend, either my friend was right or they were both wrong.

Interesting paragraph on rightness versus correctness. I prefer to deal with factual truth, and to me the point in a system of ethics (if that's what you mean by philosophy) is to preserve a logical system of interaction between individuals.

The simplest way to figure it out is to pay attention to everything about us that fascinates you. Those are the areas we're stronger than you. If a situation could benefit from one of those things, let us do it, and trust us to do it, no matter how confusing it is, or unsettling it is to do something before you've had a chance to process it.
This is great advice, and I hope it applies in every relationship, not just the ones between INTJs and ENFPs.

[Von Hase]

Same here. She's a hypochondriac, and it's just so draining to have to listen to "my ____ hurts" every time I see her. If her emotions were more positive, however, I wouldn't be so put off.

That's one of the downsides to the ENFP personality. If we are feeling something, we are talking about it. When we smile, we light up the room. When we are upset, we darken it. I know for a fact that my INTJ friends have had the greatest effectiveness in getting me to change how I feel about things through their thoughtful and insightful logic. Sometimes it takes them a few hours or even days of talking with me, but INTJs have consistently been able to talk me out of feeling negative about things that hurt, upset, or bothered me so long as they stayed in the debate.

I would suggest that if you care about your ENFP's well being, or are simply just annoyed by the powerful and seemingly endless negative expressions, use your INTJ ability to detect, analyze, and reason and systematically remove our 'issue' (aka convince us to change the way we feel about it for the better). You may be surprised how effective you can be in this endeavor once resolved. Just remember, it will be a long process and we will offer every resistance we have, but that will only make the solution more permanent, as this offers you the chance to remove all of them.

Good call. One person once pointed out that whenever he argued with my INTJ friend, either my friend was right or they were both wrong.

Do you mean your ENFP friend? Hehe.

Interesting paragraph on rightness versus correctness. I prefer to deal with factual truth, and to me the point in a system of ethics (if that's what you mean by philosophy) is to preserve a logical system of interaction between individuals.

Thank you very much. Yes, ethics, morality, and the various other synonyms are the dominant reasoning process for an F personality. Logical reasoning is secondary to us. This is why we frequently get caught in logical loops, but rarely moral or ethical loops.

This is great advice, and I hope it applies in every relationship, not just the ones between INTJs and ENFPs.

Thanks again. I would assume that this does apply in most relationships. However, in relationships where there is a lot of harmony, what is most attractive are the similarities. In other relationships, like the ENFP / INTJ, where there is a good amount of similarity but also a complimentary amount of difference, the difference is as much of a strength in this situation as the harmony which is a foundation. However, in order to get the most of the differences, both members must choose to appreciate them or over time they will become toxic to the relationship.

[playthestatic]

I have two ENFP friends, both guys.

One of them is wildly enthusiastic about.. well, just about everything. It's quite endearing sometimes. He's almost like an excited puppy - running around sniffing at anything enthusiastically - when he's excited about something, he's delirious, but he switches interests just as quickly. With relationships, he's very easily emotionally affected, and makes on the spot emotionally-charged resolutions that last about a day - e.g. 'I'm NEVER going to speak to her again'. On the surface, however, he's a very happy, wildly enthusiastic person, and it's very infectious.

My other ENFP friend seems completely different. Like the other one, he dwells excessively on his emotional needs and experiences, but looks into them more thoughtfully and reflectively. He's very intelligent, and good if I need to rant or vent my frustrations about how unreasonable/ignorant some people can be, and he's one of the few people with which I can have long discussions about human behaviour and the meaning of life in general. However, I tend to find it draining talking to him too often - inevitably, it's probably because he tends to want to discuss emotions and motivations of people in detail, and while this can be interesting to discuss, I have yet to develop comfort with intensively tapping into my emotional side.

[Von Hase]

I have two ENFP friends, both guys.

One of them is wildly enthusiastic about.. well, just about everything. It's quite endearing sometimes. He's almost like an excited puppy - running around sniffing at anything enthusiastically - when he's excited about something, he's delirious, but he switches interests just as quickly. With relationships, he's very easily emotionally affected, and makes on the spot emotionally-charged resolutions that last about a day - e.g. 'I'm NEVER going to speak to her again'. On the surface, however, he's a very happy, wildly enthusiastic person, and it's very infectious.

My other ENFP friend seems completely different. Like the other one, he dwells excessively on his emotional needs and experiences, but looks into them more thoughtfully and reflectively. He's very intelligent, and good if I need to rant or vent my frustrations about how unreasonable/ignorant some people can be, and he's one of the few people with which I can have long discussions about human behaviour and the meaning of life in general. However, I tend to find it draining talking to him too often - inevitably, it's probably because he tends to want to discuss emotions and motivations of people in detail, and while this can be interesting to discuss, I have yet to develop comfort with intensively tapping into my emotional side.

It sounds like the former ENFP is more strongly F, while the latter is more strongly N, and you have a great pair of drastic examples of how the ENFP thought process can manifest itself.

Also, Myers Briggs is an indicator of how people think, not how well people think.

[WaeV]

I would suggest that if you care about your ENFP's well being, or are simply just annoyed by the powerful and seemingly endless negative expressions, use your INTJ ability to detect, analyze, and reason and systematically remove our 'issue' (aka convince us to change the way we feel about it for the better). You may be surprised how effective you can be in this endeavor once resolved. Just remember, it will be a long process and we will offer every resistance we have, but that will only make the solution more permanent, as this offers you the chance to remove all of them.
The problem is usually headaches, and I think it's a nutrition issue. She nibbles at her lunch, eating the cookies first and rarely touching the fruit. She refuses to eat grapes, bananas, oranges, and pretty much anything else but the occasional strawberry. What's odd is that she doesn't look out of shape. I don't think she munches on junk all day, I just don't think she gets enough fruits and veggies.

I don't know what else to suggest other than eating better.

Thank you very much. Yes, ethics, morality, and the various other synonyms are the dominant reasoning process for an F personality. Logical reasoning is secondary to us. This is why we frequently get caught in logical loops, but rarely moral or ethical loops.
What do you mean by "loops"? Contradictions? Errors?

[Von Hase]

What do you mean by "loops"? Contradictions? Errors?

ENFPs frequently can't logic our way out of something because our feelings on the matter take precedence over our logic. Therefore, we often find ourselves trapped in circular logic. My INTJs have been a great help to me when I get stuck in these situations by being able to spot the point at which my feelings are creating the 'switch', like on a train track, back into my circular logic, then helping me break the loop by making it clear to me.

For instance, I don't like my headaches. I don't feel that there is anything I can do about them. Therefore I keep having my headaches, and I don't like my headaches... rinse, repeat. I think your ENFPs issue isn't that she won't eat fruit, but that she feels eating fruit isn't the answer. She's most likely right. We're rarely wrong about our feelings. The problem is, we trust our feelings as implicitly as INTJs trust their logic. What's happening is that because she doesn't feel that any of the suggestions that she's heard so far can do anything about the headaches she's not open to trying. But, this isn't an issue where she can feel her way through the problem and needs to use logic until she comes across the solution that feels right, thus keeping herself in a logic loop. The hypochondria you've mentioned is likely related to this very issue. While trying to come up with a solution, she's also trying to uncover the cause, and is 'bouncing' possibilities off of you to see if they feel right when discussed. Again, because she can't come to a solution that feels right, she's trapped herself in a logical loop. In this case, one that looks like hypochondria.

I think that you're likely having the inverse problem. Your logic is good, but the way you feel about the situation is causing you to stay in a feeling loop. When you begin to consider any new possibilities, I would assume that your annoyance with the subject acts as a 'switch' back out of being interested in doing so any further.

This is a wonderful example of two factors in Myers Briggs that are often overlooked. First, all thought is comprised of both factors in any of the letter designations. Everyone is partly Introverted and Extraverted, perceives both through Sensing and iNtuition, and reasons through both Thinking and Feeling. Myers Briggs helps determine which of those functions are dominant, much like handedness. All people can and frequently use their 'off hand', but it is not as well practiced or reflexive as their 'dominant hand', while still others border on ambidexterity. Taking this into consideration, it is also is a great example of how T and F dominance interact with their auxiliary functions by demonstrating the effect in inverse.

My suggestion with respect to your ENFP is to use your INTJ abilities to hone in on her issue more deeply. INTJ pattern recognition is incredible, and once you have a chance to process the information, develop some more suggestions. Repeat this process until you come across the one that feels right to her. The difficulties for you will be forcing yourself not to become too annoyed to stop pondering the matter and not becoming too focused on the problem when she no longer feels like considering a solution and simply wants to express her feelings on how it hurts. Her intuitive feeling processes will know the solutions when she hears them. Even if you don't come up with the solution, at minimum you can help her consider in directions that she hadn't, and that may open her mind to the solution.

I trust INTJ logic and perception rather implicitly, and have found that if you guys come up with a pattern recognition that does not ring true with your logic, the answer is likely not correct no matter how you feel about it. This is the inverse of ENFPs, in that if our pattern recognition does not match our feelings, the answer is rarely correct, not matter how logical. You mentioned that you think she should eat more fruit, but otherwise seems healthy. If she is showing no other signs of vitamin deficiency, then this is likely not the cause. If you're not clicking on the solution through your process and neither is she through hers, then it's not the solution in almost every instance. This is basic scientific process actually. Two negative tests are generally not a positive result. One positive test may be a positive result. Two positive tests are likely a positive result. Using this method of ruling out possibilities though pattern recognition being applied to the litmus of INTJ logic and ENFP feeling, INTJs and ENFPs have a very powerful combination of complimentary talents to derive answers that would elude all but the most brilliant minds. I'm sure you two will come to the solution as soon as you learn how to respect each other's strengths and capitalize upon them. Once that happens, you two will be able to accomplish an incredible amount of problem solving together outside of this issue, that neither of you could have on your own.

Good luck!

[CarolinetheENFP]

Von Hase, I rather love you. do continue.

[Von Hase]

Von Hase, I rather love you. do continue.

Aww, thank you hun! I'm trying to speak INTJ on these forums to translate from ENFP and help bridge the slight skip between our deceptively similar types. I hope it's working. Of course, I may only be blabbing on in ENFP, hehe. *shrugs* Time will tell.

[WaeV]

Von Hase, I rather love you. do continue.
Seconded. You nailed both of our roles. I'll have to see if I can think of any other possibilities.

Aww, thank you hun! I'm trying to speak INTJ on these forums to translate from ENFP and help bridge the slight skip between our deceptively similar types. I hope it's working. Of course, I may only be blabbing on in ENFP, hehe. *shrugs* Time will tell.
I certainly understand you well enough. :thumbsup:

[shattered night]

Aww, thank you hun! I'm trying to speak INTJ on these forums to translate from ENFP and help bridge the slight skip between our deceptively similar types. I hope it's working. Of course, I may only be blabbing on in ENFP, hehe. *shrugs* Time will tell.

Wow. Well, it's working for me. As I was reading your 1st post I honestly wondered if you were an INTJ posing as an ENFP. :)

And really, thank you for posting. They are quite enlightening. I'm guessing that you are involved in some sort of psych. related field. :scholar: *shrug*

At any rate, I think your ideas will be useful in my relationships w/ the ENFPs I know. And further, your ability to translate your thoughts into INTJ speak make me more optimistic that I will be able to train myself to be more ENFP friendly as far as expressing feelings goes. :nice:

[AceBrown]

I'll add my two cents.

One of my best friends for 4 years is an ENFP female.

We first met while I was a sophomore at college. I was a Sophomore SOL (Student Orientation Leader, not by choice...) and she was one of the freshmen in my group. She was very friendly and made alot of friends. She asked questions about anything...and I mean questions ranging from school to Spongebob.

We would hang out all of the time. I think INTJs can appreciate ENFPs because they sorta encourage you to open up. I think most INTJs have a fantasy world they like to dwell into (for me, Video Games and Art) and they can relate with ENFPs since they would understand. We would talk about just anything and have fun while discussing matters that are important to us. Her personality was mostly bubbly and cheerful, but she could be mature. She was unpredictable at times, like showing up at the dorm room 3:00 AM cuz she was "bored and couldn't sleep."

There are two things I found annoying though.

One, sometimes she would be too emotional and take things the wrong way. Example, we went to Wal-mart together to get two different things. I went to get a PS2 game and she went to get some snacks/food. While we were walking in, I seen another female friend of mine who was going in the same direction as me. So I told my ENFP friend that I was leaving with my other friend and that we would meet back up after I got my game. Simple plan right? My ENFP friend later confided in me that she felt like I was ignoring her.

Two, she tend to be unreliable at times. But, this only related to things like going out or something that wasn't too serious. I bugged me though. I often tell her to get a schedule planner.

But, other than those two things, I feel like the relationship is great.

[Von Hase]

I am currently having one of my 'down' moods, and I thought this would be a great time to discuss one of the parts of an ENFP that my INTJs don't seem to understand too well, and clearly want to so they can help fix it - the dreaded ENFP angst. We don't do it very often, but when we drop into that pit of despair, we go in feet first without a rope.

Judging from the reactions and advice my INTJs have given me, I can assume that you're telling me how you would deal with such a state. I've gotten a lot of good empathy from my INTJs when I get in this mode, but I can tell it frustrates them to not be able to understand why I can't reason my way out of it eventually. I know that my INTJ friends are no strangers to feeling overwhelmed. But, I also know that it is part of your process and that eventually 'getting a handle on it' is the natural progression for you guys. It stands to reason that you assume we are the same, and is a very logical assumption at that.

At its core this is very simply a conflict between the Perception and Judging functions. For INTJs, this is common and occurs when your iNtuitive function conflicts with your Thinking function, because pattern recognition actually defies logic. You have right brained perception but left brained reasoning that you regularly have to reconcile, making you guys quite practiced at the process. For ENFPs, it is a conflict between our iNtuitive function and our Feeling function.

However similar the effects may appear, the difference between the causes is profound. I think this is the most important part that the INTJs are missing. As ENFPs our entire world view is tied into our ability to perceive the world intuitively, just like INTJs, but our ability to interpret what we perceive is based entirely on our idealism. Often the NF combination types are referred to as Idealists, and this is because when pattern recognition is combined with philosophical reasoning, the result is that we see the world in philosophical patterns, and these are the basis for which we form the foundation of our personalities. Normally, this very strong framework is the source of our boundless enthusiasm and drive, our optimism and our warmth. We see the the philosophical patterns of the world as they should be, and therefore move to help them stay on course when they drift, and we are more than happy to do so. It usually doesn't matter if something doesn't jive between these functions. It will. If it doesn't, then we will make it, and are astonishingly adept at doing so.

However, every now and then there comes a rift between the P an J functions that we cannot reconcile. For whatever reason, we are unable to affect an outcome that should not have happened according to our philosophical worldview... and this rocks the very foundation of who we are because we cannot change our world view, as it is based on feeling not logic, unless we change the way we feel about the philosophical truth entirely. And this is not something that anyone can do easily, most especially ENFPs, nor is it something most are willing to do lightly. Worst of all, it hits ENFPs doubly hard, because as idealist extraverts, we feel compelled to make these things right, and have therefore failed somehow, or that the world has failed us.

Unlike INTJs who have the ability to correct their Thinking to adjust to any new rifts in their Perception by allowing the external changes to exist, we ENFPs cannot use reason to self correct any parallax between our P and J functions. Instead of Thinking our way through it and accepting the external state as it is, we have to Feel our way through it and modify our internal architecture to accommodate. This makes the process highly emotional for us, and unfortunately anyone in the proximity. I apologize on behalf of all of us ENFPs for this, past, present, and future. But hopefully, this explains the reason for the intensity when we go through it.

While the other NF core idealists go through a similar experience when their P and J functions conflict, the Introverts are less likely to express it so annoyingly because they are less likely to feel as if they have failed, but simply that the world has failed them. The ENFJ on the other hand is likely to become angry in the moment then stick to their guns as their J function is stronger than what they've perceived, making the process more intense but much shorter, and often allowing them to accept that something was 'just wrong' and continue to feel that way without a great degree of rift once this view is reached. However, I would greatly assume that what I've written here about ENFPs trying to reconcile their P and J functions has a moderate to large degree of applicability to the other NF types as well when the are 'brooding' or 'flipping out'.

Advice for dealing with your ENFP when they are in this state includes simply understanding that we're feeling our way through rather than reasoning our way through, and that it is not a blow to our understanding but an assault on our entire paradigm. Your natural understanding of how to reconcile a J and P rift can be extremely helpful to us if you reason from a perspective of how we feel about it. One of my INTJs has caught on to this, and now reflexively opens his help with questions like "How does this make you feel?" and "Why do you feel that way?" which helps me focus on my paradigm from a somewhat detached perspective. From there, he can usually help me bridge gaps of logic in my philosophical reasoning, and is especially adept at getting me to understand that what I have perceived may not be so intrinsically tied to the subject I have such strong feelings about. Lastly, he's also very careful to not invalidate any of my feelings or ideals in the process. More than anything, this makes it possible for him to help, even if there is nothing he can do, because this prevents him from making his attempts to help seem antagonistic to me while I am irritated from the foundation of my being. Gentle compassion and patience always disarms an ENFP. If you've ever tried to help an ENFP in this state and got snapped at, it was because you were not gentle enough in trying to adjust our most sensitive area which was already hurting at the time, and caused it to hurt more. Even if we do snap at you, you need to know that we greatly appreciate the help you're trying to offer, even if it really isn't helping. The worst thing you can do is mistake our reactions for anything other than us hurting and escalate the moment into a personal argument. When our paradigm is in jeopardy, the one thing that normally keeps us behaving in a conscientious manner is not available to us, and we will likely 'cut loose' on you without being able to explain what has caused the reaction or why.

Personally, I think that the difficulty in reconciling paralax between the J and P functions is the greatest reason for INTJ and ENFP harmony, especially since we're both reconciling our N function. Of all of the NT and NF types, we are the two that are hit hardest by this conflict, and therefore rely on this process the most. The vast majority of the way we deal with conflict resolution stems from it, and when people resolve conflict in a similar way, they are much more likely to maintain relationships long term. Conflicts break or prove a relationship because how people handle them antagonizes or harmonizes the situation, and time and time again I have seen that my INTJs and I bolster rather than divide in times of stress, regardless of any differences we might otherwise have... and yet we're always surprised by it because we don't normally consider just how well we harmonize in conflict resolution due to the fact that we approach the world from such similar but different perspectives.

I hope this helps your relationships with your otherwise beloved ENFPs.

[Asinine]

Assuming I understand the gist of what you are trying to describe: You have an abstract idea of how you feel the world should be. And, when it turns out that there is a difference from the real world as you perceive it to be, inferred from a emotional rift, you can not adjust your internal view because you are emotionally invested in it. Your preference for P over J means you can not apply a judgmental rationalization to protect your world view, and hence your ego. Nor, can you decide if it is you or the world that is in error. As you can not resolve this dissonance, it eats into your self esteem and your ego.

Now, what would I do, if I was extroverted, feeling, and non-judgmental. I think I would talk about it with someone else who was also F, but was J instead, assuming he or she where a friend. Since I would need to be able to communicate without feeling even more frustrated and hopeless, I would need to talk to another intuitive. Even if I don't agree with what he or she says. I think that I would at least feel a little better by getting it off my chest.

Does this make any sense? Does anyone know if that even works?

[Von Hase]

It works wonderfully, actually, especially when it is an NFJ.

However, the subject of this thread is ENFP-INTJ Relationships on the INTJ Forum, so I focused the post on how INTJs can understand and possibly help when this situation occurs.

Also, though I wouldn't put it in such analytical terms, you seem to understand what I wrote rather accurately! Kudos! Just remember to be more 'feely' when dealing with an ENFP in this state because when we're in it, we're in a lot of emotional turmoil, much like how you guys are in mental turmoil when processing new information. The more accommodating 'feely' you are with us when we are 'flipping out' the better, just like the more analytical accommodating we are with you when you're 'processing' the better. Too much information, even the right information in that state is annoying for you guys. The same is true for us on an emotional level.

The only point of correction I have is that it's not only eating at our self esteem and ego, it's eating at our entire world view and the foundation of who we are as people. This makes it very difficult for us as we are essentially forced to 'process' our entire paradigm, not just our intellect. It's not comfortable. But it is MUCH easier to get through with help, especially the help of an NFJ, or an INTJ perhaps even more so because you guys can detach and remain objective when it is the most difficult for us to be.

[Asinine]

Ok. I understand. I am just trying to get a grasp of the problem, and made a prediction in order to see if I understood it well enough to make a valid prediction. By doing so, I can make predictions on what I can do to help you, or by extension another ENFP fell better, even if it does not involve reason.

Unfortunately that little second paragraph of mine took about 10 to 15 minutes to come up with, and nearly burned me out. So, I don't honestly know how much help I can be on the fly.

You also mentioned us having similar issues, but being able to resolve them. I can't vouch for everyone, but, I have one that I often can not really resolve. If I see a social or political storm brewing and I know that nothing I do rationally will prevent nor mitigate it significantly, I get in a funk and will usually withdrawal from everything related to it.

Which brings me to anther thing you brought up earlier, but I did not address. If I get snapped at in such a way, I will immediately leave that person alone unless explicitly told otherwise. I interpret it as "You are hurting me by invading my personal space" which is actually not that far off in your case. If hurt by it, I may say something like "I know, I _feel_ exactly the same way," "I'm just trying to help," etc while departing. I won't escalate it, unless I think I am being taken advantage of (Kicked around for fun, for example).

I don't know if this helps anyone at all. But, I got the notion that something still needed to be said.

[loosefanbelt]

I am enjoying reading this conversation.

I think levels of incompatibility may also have to do with extreme scores too.

I have experience that might help you. My deceased husband was an ENTJ and I am an INFX - actually my E and I are really close scores too. We were both extreme Ns which made the practical matters of life a challenge... HA! But, there was a way that we were both somewhat misunderstood by the world and totally "got" one another in this function, which was a first for both of us. Our physical chemistry was good too, which helped a great deal.

I am really a core P that has been what I call "a cultured J" - meaning that my parents and school life beat the structure into me. My score in the JP is really even. Hence, I can run events for 7,000 people as a profession, which takes a lot of organizational skill. But, when stressed - I am a P. For vacations I will be a J while I am planning and then when I get there I become a P all the way.

We were both artisan personalities - he was a sound designer for media in Los Angeles - he was an artisan first and a technician second.

We were the "great love" - he made me incredibly happy, I felt known by him for the most part - but I knew I needed to help him know me, which I was willing to do. Early in the relationship I assumed that he would not know me unless I pointed things out to him and he listened and integrated real concepts about me into his thinking. On the other hand, I never expected him to give in certain ways, and these were things that I did not care about.

There is a concept out there called "Love Languages" they are:
1. words of affirmation
2. quality time
3. gifts
4. acts of service
5. physical touch

We both were effusive about our love - telling each other numerous times a day about our love and care for one another. (1.)

We both were very physically affectionate - and in the same way. (5.)

We both wanted time with one another. (2.)

We valued acts of service a bit, and could care less about gifts.

It was not a perfect relationship. But it was relatively easy.

With all good things, it ended too soon. He died at a very young age. I miss my ENTJ badly. That is why I lurk about here, it feels familiar. That, and there are some great fights that erupt to read...

[Starla4270]

Hi. I recently found out that I am an INTJ, and have started reading about personality types.

Re: The INTJ/ENFP connection: I met my husband via an online dating website when we were both 29, and as soon as he walked through the door, I knew he was "the one." We got married after 11 months.

He is an ENFP.

Of course we have had our problems, like anyone else. But really we are a ridiculously happy couple--now expecting twins. =)

I had to go through so many "wrong" people before I found him. But once I did it was like I knew him forever.

[IreOfDesire]

insightful Von Hase!

PS: I don`t see how the notion "von hase" could relate to the ENFP nature or is it some sort of a fictional character?

[Von Hase]

insightful Von Hase!

PS: I don`t see how the notion "von hase" could relate to the ENFP nature or is it some sort of a fictional character?

My P and J functions are terribly balanced. For most of my life I tested as eNFp. Recently, (as in after the posts above) I took the MBTI again, and my J function has just barely managed to edge out my P. Therefore my lifestyle preferences have changed enough for me to score as eNFj.

My I and E functions are also very balanced, and when I first took the MBTI, I scored as an iNFp. I suspect that it wouldn't take much for me to revert to an iNFp or even an iNFj personality under the right kinds of conditions.

In essence, I'm pretty much a raw NF type, and have a lot of experience as being an eNFp type.


Update: Out of curiosity, I took the MBTI again today, and am now an iNFj.


Von Hase added to this post, 9 minutes and 11 seconds later...

Hi. I recently found out that I am an INTJ, and have started reading about personality types.

Re: The INTJ/ENFP connection: I met my husband via an online dating website when we were both 29, and as soon as he walked through the door, I knew he was "the one." We got married after 11 months.

He is an ENFP.

Of course we have had our problems, like anyone else. But really we are a ridiculously happy couple--now expecting twins. =)

I had to go through so many "wrong" people before I found him. But once I did it was like I knew him forever.

ENFPs are kryptonite to INTJs. Fortunately for you ENFPs are almost always far too noble to ever take advantage of that fact.

Once you get over the 'learning curve' of how you interact, you two will make an incredible team once you learn to defer to each others' strengths. It sounds like you're pretty much there though.

Blessings for you, your relationship, and your children!

[loosefanbelt]

My hubby (now deceased) was an ENTJ - and the combination was really easy for me. NT & NF is a nice mix... we always had a lot of mental stimulation going on. <3

[LauraSofia]

I am looking for information on INTJ-ENFP relationships. Incidentally, I have a huge crush on this ENFP who is charming, popular, charismatic, wild and passionate. I am interested in genuine feedback from people who know from experience: What are some of the pros and cons of the INTJ-ENFP pair??

Hi! I was reading your question and would like to help you. As you can see I'm an ENFP (a.k.a. the Inspirer), and my boyfriend is INTJ (a.k.a. the Mastermind!) I love him very much... because he is very patient with me when I get very difficult sometimes and whenever I get disorganized he straightens me up! Of course, I know that since I'm an ENFP i must take more responsibility to not be so emotional and disorganized, which I do most of the time, but whenever he sees me like this he tells me so and that helps me a lot. But that doesn't mean that he wont listen to me whenever I need a shoulder to cry on!

He told me today that he loved to be with me because he can talk to me about all his new business plans and whatever happens on his mind (he never stops thinking! hehe!) without feeling misjudged. I kinda inspire him! And... since I always try to be as upbeat as possible and an open ear to him he can be himself. Another thing is that we get along well because we can work as a team on anything we have to do together.

[The DOCTOR]

I envy you all, these posts are divine. Thanks a million Von Hase.

I have a good ENFP friend of mine, who used to be my best friend, but after a long philosophical debate we had one time we ended up insulting each other and losing our last nerves, and since then I'm still pretty distant from him, though I still think he values the friendship.
He's kinda slow, though I won't attribute that to his ENFP qualities, and he loves his circular reasoning and his generalizations and stereotyping. It just boils the blood in me, and I feel like getting into another heated discussion whenever he gives another "Come on!!!" as a validation or excuse. Or whenever he tells me to "take a chill pill." (that's just a personal perk of his)
Your posts have really helped me in understanding him though. I've learned to look at the world from his perspective, I only wish he could do the same for me. He has attributed all my negative qualities to all Introverts and he thinks INTJs are soulless and evil creatures of destruction :disappointed:

[Arcturus]

One positive test may be a positive result. Two positive tests are likely a positive result.

Um, no?

[cereza]

My best friend is an ENFP, and we both have that intuition thing going on; we just "get" each other sometimes. We call it the "ESP;" every day we have moments when we`re thinking the same thing or have similar reactions, but she`s so emotional that it drives me insane sometimes. She gets obsessed with anything she likes, and it annoys me to no end because I have to hear about it until its over. Also, instead of feeling her feelings, she has to express them to me and throw happy glitter dust or i`m-so-alone sprinkles in every facet of our conversations. She`s a priceless friend, and I like pulling her over to the logical side every now and then (and she, me); but I`m a very happy person, and not in the least bit misanthropic or non-sympathetic so we`re usually on the same accord. However, I don`t feel the need to throw pom poms in the air every time I`m having a good day, which is often. I think the reason we have problems is I come off non-caring and cold when she says random things, even about her feelings. Its not because I don`t care, its because I`m not interested enough to converse about them. For example, if she says "I`m having a sucky day," I go "Oh. Why?" instead of, say.. "OHMIGOD, WHYYYY?" Catch my drift. She also likes to say that she doesn`t want to spend her young life being "unemotional" and that causes me to roll my eyes. Suggesting that I`m emotionless is retarded; I just like to feel my emotions, rather than exaggerate and display them.

[end rant]

Expect to have to affirm your ENFP that you`re being genuine in the first stages of your relationship, and expect for there to be a lapse in communication at times. There will be arguments, but both ENFP and INTJs bounce back rather quickly from these because of lack of interest. ENFPs are also touchy feely at times and can be drippy bastards (hangers-on, public displays of affection). They are those who live for the show, and all of the world is a stage..

[Shadowstar]

My current girlfriend is a ENFP and we are a wonder match!

[Gunseng Raziel]

My fiancee is an ENFP and I manage to get along with her moreso than my own family, and I am rarely frustrated by her, although I do require time by myself refardless, but this is most likely not of her faults because I am 90% Introverted.

[Brion]

NF and NT's do well together because they can see the world through words, ideas and imagination BUT at the same time... they balance each other out... NTs PULL BACK the NF into the real world, are direct which helps the flitting mind and emotions of the NF and have the ability to put into place an order from the chaos... And the NT's I suspect enjoy watching and playing with the NF emotional response which is not like thier own... I think they admire our ability to feel and emote and to be TRUE... as Hawthorne said be true to ourselves.

I joined this forum to find some NT and NF friends because it seems like no else gets me.

[Greedy]

I am looking for information on INTJ-ENFP relationships. Incidentally, I have a huge crush on this ENFP who is charming, popular, charismatic, wild and passionate. I am interested in genuine feedback from people who know from experience: What are some of the pros and cons of the INTJ-ENFP pair??
One of my bestfriends is a ENFP, and at best we are a force to reconned with. At worst all i can do is scratch my head and walk away for a few days (or start shaking him)





Greedy added to this post, 47 minutes and 26 seconds later...

Ok. I understand. I am just trying to get a grasp of the problem, and made a prediction in order to see if I understood it well enough to make a valid prediction. By doing so, I can make predictions on what I can do to help you, or by extension another ENFP fell better, even if it does not involve reason.

Unfortunately that little second paragraph of mine took about 10 to 15 minutes to come up with, and nearly burned me out. So, I don't honestly know how much help I can be on the fly.

You also mentioned us having similar issues, but being able to resolve them. I can't vouch for everyone, but, I have one that I often can not really resolve. If I see a social or political storm brewing and I know that nothing I do rationally will prevent nor mitigate it significantly, I get in a funk and will usually withdrawal from everything related to it.

Which brings me to anther thing you brought up earlier, but I did not address. If I get snapped at in such a way, I will immediately leave that person alone unless explicitly told otherwise. I interpret it as "You are hurting me by invading my personal space" which is actually not that far off in your case. If hurt by it, I may say something like "I know, I _feel_ exactly the same way," "I'm just trying to help," etc while departing. I won't escalate it, unless I think I am being taken advantage of (Kicked around for fun, for example).

I don't know if this helps anyone at all. But, I got the notion that something still needed to be said.
I must say that this is one of the most insightful conversations o have seen/heard in quiet awhile. Also thank you Van hase for taking the time and effort to try and explain things in a manner that makes sense to an INTJ. I think some of these ideas and thoughts will go a good ways in helping me understand a close friend(he is an extreme ENFP) who has been going through some tumultuous times.





Greedy added to this post, 60 minutes and 28 seconds later...

My fiancee is an ENFP and I manage to get along with her moreso than my own family, and I am rarely frustrated by her, although I do require time by myself refardless, but this is most likely not of her faults because I am 90% Introverted.
How do you let her know when you need some alone time? does she ever take it the wrong way?

[marklawrence]

I went out with an ENFP for a while. She was GREAT in bed but I got bored of her always saying stupid shit.

the first few months will be great, then you will get bored as hell of her

A friend once said to me:

"One day, you meet this girl. Cute, funny, fun to be with, makes you feel great. Not so smart maybe, but everything else is wonderful. So you move in with her. 3 months later, you're bored.

Then you meet another girl. Cute funny, fun to be with, makes you feel great. And this one is smart. So you move in with her.

3 months later, you're both bored."

[catzmeow]

ENFPs are kryptonite to INTJs. Fortunately for you ENFPs are almost always far too noble to ever take advantage of that fact.

From the ENFP perspective, INTJs are just as alluring. They are so mysterious. And, there are always things going on inside of their head for us to wonder about and try to figure out. INTJs are a gigantic puzzle to solve.

And, we can provoke them out of their shells and make them smile.

When an INTJ talks, he means exactly what he says. There are no games, except the fun ones!

I think that this is even nicer for those of us who are closer on some of our scores. My boyfriend and I are very close on the I/E functions. He's a rather extroverted introvert, and I'm a rather introverted extrovert. We both need time alone to recharge, for instance. And, while he's not particularly high on F, he is very sensitive, and I can float back and forth between F/T almost at will.

We've never really had a serious disagreement in 18 months.

[summerlover89]

Yes!! There is this Enfp guy that is like kryptonite to me...meaning that he makes me lose control and I feel powerless around him. I turn into a smitten silly girl around him. But, from what I've read, Enfps are attracted to intjs because of their way of thinking and their "unwavering" confidence. This is usually how I am, but I can't ever seem to demonstrate that to him. I get so overwhelmed by my emotions just being around him I can't even carry on an interesting conversation. What should I do??

[larkin]

But, from what I've read, Enfps are attracted to intjs because of their way of thinking and their "unwavering" confidence. This is usually how I am, but I can't ever seem to demonstrate that to him. I get so overwhelmed by my emotions just being around him I can't even carry on an interesting conversation. What should I do??

When I'm attracted to someone, I'm not interested in being attracted to some fake perception of who they are, and this concept of "unwavering" confidence undoubtedly would be only that. Real people get nervous, real people have trouble expressing themselves. (When I get too emotional I get a full-on stutter, for example. Like can't speak, can't get the words out stutter.) Real confidence is accepting that about yourself; he probably appreciates not your confidence exactly but your authenticity.

That's also part of what I would be attracted to when you say "way of thinking"; I would be attracted to the fact that the way you have of thinking is quintessentially you. I like what you have to say and I like the way you say it. Don't try to change or overthink that.

[jessie]

I'm an ENFP & I think INTJ's are sexy... Intense and tightly wound :cheesy: I like to unwind them.. They're like a fun puzzle!

[alazenberry]

Yes. INTJ's are just so interesting from an ENFP's perspective. There is one in my life that just drives me crazy (in a good way...)

[stock]

I have two ENFP friends, both guys.

One of them is wildly enthusiastic about.. well, just about everything. It's quite endearing sometimes. He's almost like an excited puppy - running around sniffing at anything enthusiastically - when he's excited about something, he's delirious, but he switches interests just as quickly. With relationships, he's very easily emotionally affected, and makes on the spot emotionally-charged resolutions that last about a day - e.g. 'I'm NEVER going to speak to her again'. On the surface, however, he's a very happy, wildly enthusiastic person, and it's very infectious.

My other ENFP friend seems completely different. Like the other one, he dwells excessively on his emotional needs and experiences, but looks into them more thoughtfully and reflectively. He's very intelligent, and good if I need to rant or vent my frustrations about how unreasonable/ignorant some people can be, and he's one of the few people with which I can have long discussions about human behaviour and the meaning of life in general. However, I tend to find it draining talking to him too often - inevitably, it's probably because he tends to want to discuss emotions and motivations of people in detail, and while this can be interesting to discuss, I have yet to develop comfort with intensively tapping into my emotional side.

These both sound like me at times but the top can be me in total play mode or total emo breakdown mode.

I am currently having one of my 'down' moods, and I thought this would be a great time to discuss one of the parts of an ENFP that my INTJs don't seem to understand too well, and clearly want to so they can help fix it - the dreaded ENFP angst. We don't do it very often, but when we drop into that pit of despair, we go in feet first without a rope.

At its core this is very simply a conflict between the Perception and Judging functions.
However similar the effects may appear, the difference between the causes is profound. I think this is the most important part that the INTJs are missing. As ENFPs our entire world view is tied into our ability to perceive the world intuitively, just like INTJs, but our ability to interpret what we perceive is based entirely on our idealism. Often the NF combination types are referred to as Idealists, and this is because when pattern recognition is combined with philosophical reasoning, the result is that we see the world in philosophical patterns, and these are the basis for which we form the foundation of our personalities. Normally, this very strong framework is the source of our boundless enthusiasm and drive, our optimism and our warmth. We see the the philosophical patterns of the world as they should be, and therefore move to help them stay on course when they drift, and we are more than happy to do so. It usually doesn't matter if something doesn't jive between these functions. It will. If it doesn't, then we will make it, and are astonishingly adept at doing so.

However, every now and then there comes a rift between the P an J functions that we cannot reconcile. For whatever reason, we are unable to affect an outcome that should not have happened according to our philosophical worldview... and this rocks the very foundation of who we are because we cannot change our world view, as it is based on feeling not logic, unless we change the way we feel about the philosophical truth entirely. And this is not something that anyone can do easily, most especially ENFPs, nor is it something most are willing to do lightly. Worst of all, it hits ENFPs doubly hard, because as idealist extraverts, we feel compelled to make these things right, and have therefore failed somehow, or that the world has failed us.

Unlike INTJs who have the ability to correct their Thinking to adjust to any new rifts in their Perception by allowing the external changes to exist, we ENFPs cannot use reason to self correct any parallax between our P and J functions. Instead of Thinking our way through it and accepting the external state as it is, we have to Feel our way through it and modify our internal architecture to accommodate. This makes the process highly emotional for us, and unfortunately anyone in the proximity. I apologize on behalf of all of us ENFPs for this, past, present, and future. But hopefully, this explains the reason for the intensity when we go through it.

While the other NF core idealists go through a similar experience when their P and J functions conflict, the Introverts are less likely to express it so annoyingly because they are less likely to feel as if they have failed, but simply that the world has failed them. The ENFJ on the other hand is likely to become angry in the moment then stick to their guns as their J function is stronger than what they've perceived, making the process more intense but much shorter, and often allowing them to accept that something was 'just wrong' and continue to feel that way without a great degree of rift once this view is reached. However, I would greatly assume that what I've written here about ENFPs trying to reconcile their P and J functions has a moderate to large degree of applicability to the other NF types as well when the are 'brooding' or 'flipping out'.

Advice for dealing with your ENFP when they are in this state includes simply understanding that we're feeling our way through rather than reasoning our way through, and that it is not a blow to our understanding but an assault on our entire paradigm. Your natural understanding of how to reconcile a J and P rift can be extremely helpful to us if you reason from a perspective of how we feel about it. One of my INTJs has caught on to this, and now reflexively opens his help with questions like "How does this make you feel?" and "Why do you feel that way?" which helps me focus on my paradigm from a somewhat detached perspective. From there, he can usually help me bridge gaps of logic in my philosophical reasoning, and is especially adept at getting me to understand that what I have perceived may not be so intrinsically tied to the subject I have such strong feelings about. Lastly, he's also very careful to not invalidate any of my feelings or ideals in the process. More than anything, this makes it possible for him to help, even if there is nothing he can do, because this prevents him from making his attempts to help seem antagonistic to me while I am irritated from the foundation of my being. Gentle compassion and patience always disarms an ENFP. If you've ever tried to help an ENFP in this state and got snapped at, it was because you were not gentle enough in trying to adjust our most sensitive area which was already hurting at the time, and caused it to hurt more. Even if we do snap at you, you need to know that we greatly appreciate the help you're trying to offer, even if it really isn't helping. The worst thing you can do is mistake our reactions for anything other than us hurting and escalate the moment into a personal argument. When our paradigm is in jeopardy, the one thing that normally keeps us behaving in a conscientious manner is not available to us, and we will likely 'cut loose' on you without being able to explain what has caused the reaction or why.

Personally, I think that the difficulty in reconciling paralax between the J and P functions is the greatest reason for INTJ and ENFP harmony, especially since we're both reconciling our N function. Of all of the NT and NF types, we are the two that are hit hardest by this conflict, and therefore rely on this process the most. The vast majority of the way we deal with conflict resolution stems from it, and when people resolve conflict in a similar way, they are much more likely to maintain relationships long term. Conflicts break or prove a relationship because how people handle them antagonizes or harmonizes the situation, and time and time again I have seen that my INTJs and I bolster rather than divide in times of stress, regardless of any differences we might otherwise have... and yet we're always surprised by it because we don't normally consider just how well we harmonize in conflict resolution due to the fact that we approach the world from such similar but different perspectives.

I hope this helps your relationships with your otherwise beloved ENFPs.

Sorry-I know these are old quotes and threads-but this was so awesome. The bolded parts are so VERY true. The "cutting loose", the having to "feel" your way through. The externalization of that "feeling" process-aka the emo-dump. Your descriptions are superb.

An added suggestion perhaps-I think all that emo-externalization is us re-feeling our way through the problems we are dealing with-using Ne to see how do others perceive this sort of emotiona and how do they respond in the same situation. Tell the enfp-1) hey it's cool and okay if you feel that way, I have totally been there, then 2) But in the future you might want to try this approach instead. This is what ENFPs do to each other. It works like magic to get an enfp out of the "emo-loop" and help move them into the "planning" stage. That first step "It's okay that you feel this way" is everything though.

A lot of ENFPs have a very strong sense of "failure" I think tied to that rift mentioned above. We almost always assume that when things go wrong or there is an issue-that we failed. It is very strange. We more harshly judge ourselves than anyone else in the world will judge us.

She gets obsessed with anything she likes, and it annoys me to no end because I have to hear about it until its over. Also, instead of feeling her feelings, she has to express them to me and throw happy glitter dust or i`m-so-alone sprinkles in every facet of our conversations.[/B] .

Guilty as charged. I HEART PUPPIEESSEEESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (These things slip out sometimes.)