Deep Breathing

[Haphazard]

I have a very bad blood phobia so I'm trying to practice what the therapist ordered, a combination of deep breathing and tension to muscles to keep from passing out with this stimuli.

But there's a problem. I'm having a problem with breathing deeply. Even that makes me feel faint -- I don't really think there's anything that doesn't anymore. Does anybody have any advice? I'm starting to get desperate. :huh:

Thanks for any advice.

[DeadSpace]

Depersonalise it, step outside yourself, concentrate only on breathing, and/or your own heartbeat, concentrating...and i mean really concentrating on something else...internal, that has a rythym, like your heartbeat or breathing, can tear away focus from a phobia. absolute concentrated control over breathing...making sure you do it right...pausing for an exact amount of time between inhale/exhale. Making rules for yourself you have to follow...any of these can help. Was claustrophobic myself, the above helped me get around it, not instantly...but the processes became habits, constructs over time...so the phobia is quashed before the fear can even be registered consciously.

[Haphazard]

I'm not sure listening to heart beat is a good idea for this one.

I mean, even when I'm trying to practice just breathing deeply, there's nothing there, I can't breathe deeply. It's like I'm trying to hold my breath and there's not enough air going to my brain. This would likely not help anything, because that's what was happening in the first place, and I'm just making it happen faster.

Let me rephrase this. How do you breath deeply without hurting yourself?

[DeadSpace]

slowly...time it, easy in...pause, easy out. Main thing i learned, is focusing on something else besides the phobia trigger...whatever that something else might be. For me it was breathing and/or heartbeat...concentrating on keeping my breathing perfectly even and timed...takes effort. Whole point though, if you're focusing on breathing...you're not obsessing on your phobia.

[Haphazard]

slowly...time it, easy in...pause, easy out

How long is 'slowly'? I really need specifics.

[DeadSpace]

How long is 'slowly'? I really need specifics.

try say, 4 seconds for an inhale at first, hold 2~6, release for another 4 seconds, slow, steady and even. reduce the time...but not by much....if you have a rule for breathing i found (at least for me) made it easier to concentrate on following that rule, rather than anything else

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Therapy.

[Haphazard]

Therapy.

As I've stated in my initial post, I'm already in therapy and am trying to figure out how to do what she's said properly. I still can't figure out how to breathe. :irked:

[ssfanatic]

I naturally breath deep. I get comments very often asking me if something is wrong. Its just when i am thinking hard i take very deep breaths. Weird, but i think it is just habitual.

I think its all mental. If you focus on staying calm, breathing deeply should come naturally.

[eMachine]

try say, 4 seconds for an inhale at first, hold 2~6, release for another 4 seconds, slow, steady and even. reduce the time...but not by much....if you have a rule for breathing i found (at least for me) made it easier to concentrate on following that rule, rather than anything else

Yep, this has worked for me when doing relaxation exercises. I was always told breathe in slowly counting to 5, hold til 2, exhale slowly counting to 5... but I have always felt better with 3-1-3 timing, maybe because I'm a smoker. I think you should only be holding your breathe between inhale/exhale for about half the count for inhaling/exhaling, any more than that might make you feel strained or uncomfortable, you want it to feel as 'natural' as possible or it defeats the purpose (when it comes to relaxation exercises atleast).

[vaguely dissatisfied]

As I've stated in my initial post, I'm already in therapy and am trying to figure out how to do what she's said properly. I still can't figure out how to breathe. :irked:
Sorry..........I didn't read the post very well..........I seem to be doing that alot lately. It might be the cold I have addling my brain........sorry again.

I don't know if this will help but, in order to keep blood in the head, brain etc. while pulling 'G', pilots will do what is called an 'M1 maneuver' so they don't pass out. Basically this invloves clenching the abdominal muscles tightly, but relaxing the legs and arms completely. They also grunt, but you may not actually want to do that (depending on the situation I guess).

[Dagmar]

As I've stated in my initial post, I'm already in therapy and am trying to figure out how to do what she's said properly. I still can't figure out how to breathe. :irked:

A technique that I've used is to concentrate on expanding your stomach not your chest when you breathe. Count to 10 as you expand out making 10 the furthest point of extension you can make when you inhale. Then exhale in the same manner.

[Aurelia]

I have a very bad blood phobia so I'm trying to practice what the therapist ordered, a combination of deep breathing and tension to muscles to keep from passing out with this stimuli.

But there's a problem. I'm having a problem with breathing deeply. Even that makes me feel faint -- I don't really think there's anything that doesn't anymore. Does anybody have any advice? I'm starting to get desperate. :huh:

Thanks for any advice.
Are you in the medical field? When I first began as a surgical tech, having to deal with the sight and smell of raw human flesh was a bit much. If I didn't eat a fairly good sized meal beforehand, I would get sick to my stomach and feel faint. Eating might seem counter intuitive but that is what works for me.

Also during surgery (especially those requiring lots of cauterizing) I make sure to put peppermint oil in my mask. This way the smells are disguised a bit. It also helps to take my mind off of what's in front of me.

Have you ever looked into systematic desensitization?

[Haphazard]

Are you in the medical field? When I first began as a surgical tech, having to deal with the sight and smell of raw human flesh was a bit much. If I didn't eat a fairly good sized meal beforehand, I would get sick to my stomach and feel faint. Eating might seem counter intuitive but that is what works for me.

Also during surgery (especially those requiring lots of cauterizing) I make sure to put peppermint oil in my mask. This way the smells are disguised a bit. It also helps to take my mind off of what's in front of me.

Have you ever looked into systematic desensitization?

I'm not in the medical field. I'm only in high school but life is becoming too much for me. I'm going to a therapist for this...

[athenian200]

This might seem a useless piece of advice, but why don't you just try avoiding situatations where you'll see blood? It's not as if it's everywhere and you can't avoid seeing it... is it?

If that's impossible for some reason, I think you're better off trying overcome your fear of the stimuli by facing it repeatedly to the point that you don't have to try "breathing." If you're under enough stress that you can't control your muscles enough to do that already, nothing you can do while still in the grip of that strong reaction will fix it. I think you have to cure the problem, not treat the symptoms, if you know what I mean.

Finally, if you can't get rid of the fear because it's completely instinctive and beyond your psyche's ability to compensate, you might consider an inhaler or some other kind of device to help you breathe in such situations.

[Haphazard]

This might seem a useless piece of advice, but why don't you just try avoiding situatations where you'll see blood? It's not as if it's everywhere and you can't avoid seeing it... is it?

If that's impossible for some reason, I think you're better off trying overcome your fear of the stimuli by facing it repeatedly to the point that you don't have to try "breathing." If you're under enough stress that you can't control your muscles enough to do that already, nothing you can do while still in the grip of that strong reaction will fix it. I think you have to cure the problem, not treat the symptoms, if you know what I mean.

Avoiding it is quite impossible. Both my brother and my father are diabetic, and it's not just the sight but hearing people talk about it, and that's everywhere. People seem to get so much pleasure from talking about sports injuries all the time, all the time. It's disgusting!

Breathing is going to help me solve the problem. I've got to stay conscious, don't I? I went to the therapist today, even and she said that if I can't breathe I should focus on the applied muscle tension whatever -- like the trick that fighter pilots would use to try to stay conscious -- rather than the breathing. I think maybe she figured I'm asthmatic and should just go with something else.

[athenian200]

Breathing is going to help me solve the problem. I've got to stay conscious, don't I? I went to the therapist today, even and she said that if I can't breathe I should focus on the applied muscle tension whatever -- like the trick that fighter pilots would use to try to stay conscious -- rather than the breathing. I think maybe she figured I'm asthmatic and should just go with something else.

Well... yes. That would solve the fainting problem. But my point was that you'd be better off in the long run if you could just condition yourself not to react with such intensity in the first place so that you wouldn't be at risk of passing out. It's not normal to lose consciousness because someone mentions something disgusting, and if just hearing people talk about it (and not the physical sight) is the cause, then that implies to me that it's purely psychological and can be treated.

But still... have you considered an inhaler or something else you can use to force yourself to breathe?

[Haphazard]

Well... yes. That would solve the fainting problem. But my point was that you'd be better off in the long run if you could just condition yourself not to react with such intensity in the first place so that you wouldn't be at risk of passing out. It's not normal to lose consciousness because someone mentions something disgusting, and if just hearing people talk about it (and not the physical sight) is the cause, then that implies to me that it's purely psychological and can be treated.

But still... have you considered an inhaler or something else you can use to force yourself to breathe?

I am seeking treatment, it's just that not being able to deep breathe was interfering with treatment. If I'm not conscious while trying to condition myself, well, that's not going to be very effective at all, right?

I can't get an inhaler. I don't think that would help with the problem (I'm not asthmatic), and the problem is that I forget to breathe, not that there's any medication that would help.

[blueback]

The trick figher pilots use is to tense all their muscles and breath in tiny gasps. It forces the blood in their body to stay in their head during high-G maneuvers. I suppose something like that could work for you if your problem is that your blood is literally leaving your head.

It sounds like your problems is more that you can't exchange CO2 for oxygen properly and you pass out because of that.

If you're having trouble breathing deeply try this. There is a pair of muscles under your pectoralus majors (chest) that are responsible for pulling up on your ribcage and giving your lungs more room to expand. When you're not having an attack, focus on that part of your chest and try to inhale as deeply as possible. I learned to control them when I was trying to run better. If you work at them long enough you will feel when they contract because you will get a deeper breath. You could also get a device to measure the volume of your breathing if you want some numbers.

Also, when you exhale, focus on sucking your abs up into your chest cavity. Our gasping reflex is activated by too much CO2, not by insufficient oxygen. That means it is as important to get rid of the CO2 in your blood/lungs as it is to get new oxygen in.

[HeartInHiding]

The Stress Eraser (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) provides reassuring visuals, giving
the chance to mindfully counteract stress. I've used it
and like it, notwithstanding the pricetag :)

[Rei]

I'm quite late to this conversation...

If you're feeling faint, you're definitely breathing too fast. (like hyperventilating (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.))

In Eastern medicine, physicians were taught to breath as slowly and deeply as possible (as a practice of good health). Often inhaling up to a count of ten, and exhaling up to a count of 9.

At yoga, they start with something like breathing in for a count of 7, and out for a count of 4. (if that's too easy for you, add to it) We add one more count to it every week, stretching it out as much as we can. Usually it takes so much concentration to restrict the amount of air you breath in/out per millisecond that you can't feel any other pressures/strain.



P.S. Goodness, wouldn't a fear of blood really mess you up if you were female?

[Haphazard]

I'm quite late to this conversation...

If you're feeling faint, you're definitely breathing too fast. (like hyperventilating (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.))

In Eastern medicine, physicians were taught to breath as slowly and deeply as possible (as a practice of good health). Often inhaling up to a count of ten, and exhaling up to a count of 9.

At yoga, they start with something like breathing in for a count of 7, and out for a count of 4. (if that's too easy for you, add to it) We add one more count to it every week, stretching it out as much as we can. Usually it takes so much concentration to restrict the amount of air you breath in/out per millisecond that you can't feel any other pressures/strain.



P.S. Goodness, wouldn't a fear of blood really mess you up if you were female?

As for the PS: It's an explanation that I'm sure you do not want to hear.

Last night I poked my finger on some glass and nearly passed out. Everything got really cold and dark for a while, even though I couldn't see the blood and it didn't hurt that much. I don't know what's wrong with me anymore.

[TheLastMohican]

Last night I poked my finger on some glass and nearly passed out. Everything got really cold and dark for a while, even though I couldn't see the blood and it didn't hurt that much. I don't know what's wrong with me anymore.

That's really an extreme phobia. Yikes.
Have you tried tempering yourself with frequent exposure (i.e. watching The Shining)?

[Haphazard]

That's really an extreme phobia. Yikes.
Have you tried tempering yourself with frequent exposure (i.e. watching The Shining)?

Oh I LOVE The Shining! And I also love Sweeney Todd and Silence of the Lambs...

I don't think movies help. :(

[Rei]

Oh I LOVE The Shining! And I also love Sweeney Todd and Silence of the Lambs...

I don't think movies help. :(

Now you're just being scared before you're even exposed to the blood. =/
I think you need increased exposure to real blood in a controlled setting. Hang out with a completely air-tight tube of blood on a weekly, then daily basis :)

And actually, I'm quite interested in the explanation. One of my close friends claimed she was afraid of blood, but she said that she was only afraid of other people's blood.

[Haphazard]

Now you're just being scared before you're even exposed to the blood. =/
I think you need increased exposure to real blood in a controlled setting. Hang out with a completely air-tight tube of blood on a weekly, then daily basis :)

And actually, I'm quite interested in the explanation. One of my close friends claimed she was afraid of blood, but she said that she was only afraid of other people's blood.

I've been reading that with blood/injection/injury phobias, part of it is from an evolutionary idea that people who didn't get stabbed with anything lived longer, so people programmed to avoid it through trauma wouldn't get stabbed and therefore would live longer.

Which... really sucks for some of us...

[Zilal]

I couldn't manage to learn how to use breath work for relaxation either, heh. I know it had something to do with whatever I subconsciously believed about what I was doing, but just trying to breathe more deeply would cause my stomach to tighten to the point where I could barely get a breath in. I tried many different techniques as well as progressive muscle relaxation with no luck. But I got into yoga recently and have seen tremendous changes already in my ability to handle anxiety and discomfort. So you never know... the breathing angle alone certainly works for a lot of people but might not be the right approach for you.

[Rei]

I've been reading that with blood/injection/injury phobias, part of it is from an evolutionary idea that people who didn't get stabbed with anything lived longer, so people programmed to avoid it through trauma wouldn't get stabbed and therefore would live longer.

Which... really sucks for some of us...

That makes sense... but avoiding trauma and avoiding the results of trauma are two different things IMO