Need help with colleges/majors

[lordrrr]

Hey I need help deciding which college to go to. I really want to pursue law school after college and am wondering which college would be the best to get into, say, Harvard Law, without having to go to Harvard for college. Also, I want to major in either philosophy or history. My question is are there different types of history one can major in, or do you just major in history. Finally, I'm might be taking AP history next year, so if I do are there other history classes I could take during my freshman year of college? Sort of like extra credit for history (because I love history so much).

And how important are extracurricular activities really? I hate team sports and my school has zero alternative clubs pretty much (my school is too obssessed with sports, seriously, it's annoying) and I've heard colleges actually care about that, which seems idiotic to me unless one plans on playing on a sports team there. And how important is my GPA of freshman year when I go to college? I got one A- for a semester and four A-'s for term grades. Also, do colleges look mainly at term grades or semester grades? And how important are honors/AP courses when applying? I plan on taking five years of all (or almost all) subjects and I go to a private school (and all the classes are college bound) but the only class I've taken that's advanced is honors geometry. So yeah should I be taking more honors courses?


If one could answer these questions that would be great. Thank you so much!

[Lei Yang]

I could try to opinionate on some of these I guess...
If not Harvard but still Harvard courses, what about trying for MIT? Slightly easier to enter than Harvard, big on Linguistics (philosophy), and situated close to Harvard so you actually might be taking courses at both places.
The rest I don't know - except extracurriculars.

I live in Norway and applied for American universities, so the info I can give you is probably "biased" (because it's harder), but my understanding is that for the private universities extracurriculars are extremely important, and not only the kind of extracurriculars you're talking about (sports etc). I'm talking about student government and politics, the kind of stuff that shows your "concern for the society, environment, culture around you". Also, it doesn't hurt to try innovation. I know that MIT has a place in their application where you can actually type whether you have "invented" something (ie toys, even conecepts).

[lordrrr]

I live in Norway and applied for American universities, so the info I can give you is probably "biased" (because it's harder), but my understanding is that for the private universities extracurriculars are extremely important, and not only the kind of extracurriculars you're talking about (sports etc). I'm talking about student government and politics, the kind of stuff that shows your "concern for the society, environment, culture around you". Also, it doesn't hurt to try innovation. I know that MIT has a place in their application where you can actually type whether you have "invented" something (ie toys, even conecepts).

Dammit. I hate extracurriculars. Ugh.

[Gabrielle]

Extra-curriculars is a MUST MUST MUST! More you do, better chances, because they want to see that you're a well-rounded person, not just a bookworm. I got into Princeton, and Dartmouth but I was juggling approximately 6, depending on season. I also went to a private school that was college prep, so I was in the same situation a year ago.

Colleges usually look at both, but more weight on semester. They also look critically at what kind of classes you've taken - I think the only regular classes I had on my transcript was Speech and Gym, and everything else was AP or Honors. I got a B in Gym (blech), but I had A's in everything else for semester.

Here's what I've taken:

Freshman Year
Honors Pre-Calculus
Honors Lit
AP World History
AP Biology
Gym/Health
Honors Latin I
Christianity and Judaism

Sophomore Year
AP English Lit
AP Chem
AP Calculus BC
AP Physics B (summer class after Freshman year)
Honors Latin II
AP European History
World Religion


Junior Year
Differential Equations and Multivariable Calculus
Organic Chemistry
AP Physics
Honors Latin III
AP Psychology (Summer class)
Speech
Catholicism

Senior Year
Introduction to Relativity and Quantum Mechanics
Biochemistry
Anatomy and Physiology
AP Government
AP Latin
Greek Philosophy
AP Statistics
Linear Algebra

I got a 4 on World History but 5's in everything else. I also took AP Japanese as a joke for the test.

GPA's are important, because first they select based on SAT's, then GPA's, then everything else. Extra-curriculars play a big role, and so does volunteering. But unless you're on sports team, you basically have to hold a leadership position for extra-curriculars to have any value (or that's what they said for college advice). Here's my list:

Orchestra (Vice concert-mistress Junior year, Concert-mistress Senior year)
Student Council (President)
Debate (captain Junior and Senior year)
Math team (Sub-captain)
Physics team (captain)
Speech Team (didn't have positions for some reason)

Undergrad schools don't really matter as far as you don't get somewhere unheard of - just make sure you have spectacular grades in whatever you do, aim for 3.5~4.0 GPA in college (which is ridiculously difficult). College names only matter when you're competing against the people with same caliber (IE: two candidates, both 3.8 GPA, one's from Kalamazoo and another from Dartmouth... THEN Dartmouth wins, most likely).

I actually have NO idea about majors, because most of my friends in Law went to PoliSci. But hope this helps!

[lordrrr]

Thanks hurricane. It really sucks because my school FAILS at any type of club or activity (besides sports). We have no debate team, math team, speech team, etc. If we did, I'd have joined them by now. It really really pisses me off. Also, the fact that I have to socialize with people isn't fun either, which is why I hate activities. And what about non school extracurriculars?

[integratedvelocity]

Most of my extra-curriculars were not school-related. My school was very small in a rural part of the Midwest, so there wasn't much for music. I took lessons and played in multiple community and honors orchestras in my state. Also, don't forget that you can create extra-curriculars. If you like chess, start a chess club. If you start it, you ought to be able to get people to join.

In high school, I took the most difficult classes offered, which sounds more impressive than it actually is. However, I worked hard to accelerate my studies and opt out of basic classes, such as physical science, algebra 1, intro. psych, etc. I took AP English Lit. online, since it wasn't offered. I would say the biggest thing college admissions officers look for is that you made the most of your opportunities. If you are only average for your school, even if you get straight As, participate in half a dozen extra-curriculars, etc. it is going to be more difficult to get in to top colleges.

Have you taken any standardized tests yet? You should definitely take the SATs sometime in your sophomore year. They may say that you can't study for them, but believe me, you can. I raised my math from a 690 to an 800 with about 10 hours of study. Of course, I didn't study to learn the math, I studied to be able to get the right answers on the SAT. Big difference.

hurricanereno20 is right that which college you go to doesn't matter as much as GPA, LSAT, and resumes. Go to Yale Law School's site and you can see a list of all the colleges students attended for undergrad.

Last thing, if you go to a very selective school, you won't get credit for APs. I got 5s on all mine except APUSH, and Harvard College gave me nothing. Thanks. I love mandatory writing classes.

[lordrrr]

Most of my extra-curriculars were not school-related. My school was very small in a rural part of the Midwest, so there wasn't much for music. I took lessons and played in multiple community and honors orchestras in my state. Also, don't forget that you can create extra-curriculars. If you like chess, start a chess club. If you start it, you ought to be able to get people to join.

In high school, I took the most difficult classes offered, which sounds more impressive than it actually is. However, I worked hard to accelerate my studies and opt out of basic classes, such as physical science, algebra 1, intro. psych, etc. I took AP English Lit. online, since it wasn't offered. I would say the biggest thing college admissions officers look for is that you made the most of your opportunities. If you are only average for your school, even if you get straight As, participate in half a dozen extra-curriculars, etc. it is going to be more difficult to get in to top colleges.

Have you taken any standardized tests yet? You should definitely take the SATs sometime in your sophomore year. They may say that you can't study for them, but believe me, you can. I raised my math from a 690 to an 800 with about 10 hours of study. Of course, I didn't study to learn the math, I studied to be able to get the right answers on the SAT. Big difference.

hurricanereno20 is right that which college you go to doesn't matter as much as GPA, LSAT, and resumes. Go to Yale Law School's site and you can see a list of all the colleges students attended for undergrad.

Last thing, if you go to a very selective school, you won't get credit for APs. I got 5s on all mine except APUSH, and Harvard College gave me nothing. Thanks. I love mandatory writing classes.

It's already the second term of my sophmore year and while my GPA is very good (Cumulitive: 3.95/4.0) I havn't been taking any honors or AP courses. My school is a private school isn't that enough? I'm taking Hon. Geometry right now but that's the only advanced course I've taken. Am I SOL for college applications even if I were to take a lot of AP/Honors courses for my junior and senior year?

[integratedvelocity]

No. Though I am from a public school, I didn't have any APs until my junior year. If you step up the next two years and show what you are capable of, you definitely have a shot. It is much better to be gaining momentum in your senior year than to relax. Also, going to a private school is not terribly impressive. A lot of people here went to private schools. It is more impressive if you are successful when coming from a poorer public school than from a school that trains students to attend Ivy Leagues.

By the way, a lot of this only applies if you are planning to apply to Ivy League schools. If you want to go to a really good states school (such as University of Michigan, California system, etc.), you don't need to worry quite so much. Have you taken the SAT or ACT yet? You should think about taking it this spring. That gives you time to work in your weaker areas and get a feel for the test before you take the PSAT, which qualifies you for National Merit Scholarships. Becoming a National Merit Finalist is enough to get you in to almost any college (short of Ivy League and similarly selective schools).

[ginandsour]

Some stuff:

The Ivy League has come out and said--via admissions officers--that they like well-rounded students; however, they love well-lopsided students. If your love of orchestral music takes you to Europe for a youth philharmonic, that is just as good as having 782934729834 extracurricular activities.

There are several AP History exams, so if you were to ace the AP US History test, you could take World Civ in college (and vice versa). If you do well on both, you might consider AP Government as well. There are always more history classes to take, so when you are visiting different campuses, this will be a good question to ask professors who teach classes you want to take.

If your high school does not have a debate team or something similar, maybe try starting one? Ask a teacher you connect with to advise the group. You could run events/awareness for different history months, show films, and start a lecture series, that sort of thing. You could bring quite a few closet intellectuals out of the woodwork in the community that will help you.

More honors classes are good, if only to keep you from being bored and to show initiative. Colleges look at grade trend as well, and usually place more emphasis on your second year and above, if only because so many kids are unmitigated fuckups as underclassmen, who seriously turn things around.

Some colleges do offer specific history degrees, but most places will grant a BA in history and you'll pick the emphasis. If there is a particular area you are interested in, see what kinds of research people are doing at the colleges you apply to. I was very lucky that my college had an excellent program in Middle Eastern history--one of the professors was a Fulbright scholar in Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Also, keep an open mind about your major. When I started my undergrad, I was quite solidly physics and philosophy. I ended with history and I’m now in the process of researching graduate programs in political science.

Good luck!

[Zilal]

I don't think very much of the current trend toward mega-achievement for students... that is, the idea that you have to take all the AP courses you can, fill every moment of your time with extracurricular activities, get into the very "best" colleges, etc... somehow this model has become the accepted one without, it seems, great numbers of students thinking to question it. But I think a great deal more personal development and happiness can be achieved by going your own way, daring not to enter the rat race, living with moderation and independence. Focusing on a very personal sense of character and integrity rather than looking great on paper. Not caring so much what teachers, admissions officers, and employers think. Not caring that other people are going to get "ahead" of you.

But it hardly matters because my advice is going to be the same either way. I think this is a great opportunity to start something yourself, and honestly I think that would look better to admissions officers anyway, if that's what you'd really like. Especially if it's something service-oriented. Start your own club for providing information to the poor about the resources available to them... food stamps, housing support, whatever. Or dream something else up.

[Lei Yang]

And what about non school extracurriculars?

Have you thought about politics? I'm currently serving as the president of a youth party in my country. It may be because we're small, but the only things you really need to do is to know your stuff (obviously), and know how to make propaganda speeches. Human relations actually come in second. If you sympathize with some small political or ad hoc group in your area, why not join them? Seeing as you're INTJ, I doubt it would be very hard for you to rise in stations once you've set your heart to it ;)

[lordrrr]

Thank you guys so much for your help. Integrated velocity, you were a big help and I'll definantly pick up momentum while the rest of my class is "enjoying" they're senior year. I'm picking my classes now and will hopefully be put in honors courses. I already know my English teacher loved me and she said out of anyone who's ever taken her class I'm her pick so she could maybe help me get into AP english. But I'll look around. I'll sort things out.

To ginandsour, thanks, I'll look into what I can do.

To Zilal, yes I hate the education system and I think it needs serious re workings, and your post has taken off some of the stress here. I am very independent and am not listening to my peers about what they're doing and am working very hard defining who I am so those who want me will find just the guy they're looking for.

And thanks Lei Yang, I'll look into extracurriculars more.


Thanks guys!

[integratedvelocity]

Good luck, lordrrr! Decide what you want to do and go for it. You have plenty of time and are ahead of a lot of students just by thinking about college already!

[Zilal]

Hope all goes well!

[lordrrr]

Yay! I checked the AP U.S. History list today and I got accepted! Nyaa!


Also, I talked with parents about what you suggested and they're all for signing me up for the SAT. I can take it May 4th and I think it only costs 40 bucks. It sounds like a lot of fun and would definantly be good practice- I hope I'm prepared. I've seen those practice ones and while grammer will definantly be a cinche for me I'm not too sure about the math sections. I'll see.

Finally, I'm gonna be having lunch with my counselor and my mom tommorow and we'll get the whole issue with my classes sorted out. Hope that goes okay too.


Thank you all for your support I'm gonna go full throttle here!

[Vortex]

I wouldn't bother with ivy league schools for your BA. You can just as easily get your core classes that (nearly) every college requires at a community college as Harvard - except you wont be paying $30k++ a semester for them. If you go to a local school for even one or two years you can transfer in somewhere nicer for the "real classes" - and have a better shot to boot. Proof of collegiate level work at an actual college is a huge advantage.

Of course, it is awkard to transfer, so if you want the full four year experience, then this wont be all that optimal. Just an option.

I will second the need for extracircular activities. They are so very important. It doesn't have to be affiliated with the school at all - Boy Scouts, volunteering, some independent group you help with - doesn't matter. Just show personality, drive, competence, etc. outside of the force-fed classrooms.

I never went to a private school, so it may be different... But IME, Honors is a sticker, and one that wont get you far. Honors classes are not significantly harder or move faster than regular ones - they just cut out a certain bottom % of the class that would otherwise slow it down. AP classes are more difficult, but you will need to show 4s or 5s on the AP tests for them to really count. Even a solid B or A on an AP class with a 3 on the test won't be much (completely dependent on where your applying, ofc).

Also, while you didn't ask for it - there is a lot to be said about taking time off after high school. I totally wasn't ready for college after I got out (still aren't really, not for serious grind work at any rate), and forcing yourself to another 4-8+ years of school can be very taxing.

[eternaltriangle]

I know some people that got into Harvard and Yale (the more highly ranked) law school. They were coming out of University of Toronto, and had high, but not 4.0 GPA's, and aced the LSAT (98th or 99th percentile).

If you want to go to Harvard Law, I would advise taking an easy major, rather than one that is necessarily related to the law. As to whether you should go to an Ivy league school for your BA, it depends. Elite law schools consider your grades differently, depending upon where you went. If you go to like, Alabama state, you'd damn well better have a 4.0 (University of Toronto had grading quotas, and 4.0's were almost unheard of, at least in my field).

If you only care about getting in, I would advise doing lots of extracurriculars, but not actually doing much in those. The most successful people I know are those that sign up for everything, but do little. I would advise debating - it will be of use as a lawyer, plus you will meet other people with law school ambitions, and can figure everything out. Also, APDA debating is a billion times better than any other style.

[integratedvelocity]

Don't limit where you apply because of money. If you have good grades, test scores, and a generally strong application, many private colleges have very generous financial aid packages. For example, all three of my final choices were around $50,000 per year including room and board, but I would have paid less than $10,000 for any of them. As it is, I pay only $4,000 per year at a $50,000 per year school, and I am allowed to use outside scholarships. I actually had money left over that I can use for summer school in Germany.