So how's life outside the US?

[Hobkob]

I sense a military draft coming up and with my luck I'll be the first to go. I'm trying to figure out the best way to legally avoid it. My idea is to move to Canada and become an actual citizen there, as opposed to simply fleeing when I get a draft notice. I'm trying to be smart about this. Admittedly I know nothing about obtaining citizenship to another country or whether I would be able to return to the US at a later time if I so desired. There are also a million other issues regarding basic stuff like finding employment and adapting to the new lifestyle.

As an INTJ, I like to look at all the options no matter how crazy they sound. So what do you, fellow forum users, think of my insane idea and what better options do I have?

[PortInStorm]

Hey, come on up! It's awesome here, IMO. Sorry, I have no other thoughts on skipping the draft except that we're hysterical about human rights, so you'd never have to go back. But become a citizen and get free health care!

[searcheagle]

But become a citizen and get free health care!

Free healthcare? You do realize somebody pays for that right? There's no such thing as a free lunch. The government only gets its money from its citizens.

[elsdfr]

Chop off your trigger finger?

US and a Draft is kind of scary... what exactly are you fighting? :confused:

[Ytterbium]

If you have bad luck you have do your military service in your new country instead.

[Hobkob]

Chop off your trigger finger?

US and a Draft is kind of scary... what exactly are you fighting? :confused:

Well, there's all that Iraq business...and I'm worried that Mr. Warmonger McCain might get elected president and send everyone he possibly can to go fight. The Iraq war is ridiculous. Nobody wants to be over there. I imagine a draft will cause a huge uproar among Americans and things might get nasty. I'd rather not be around for that.

If you have bad luck you have do your military service in your new country instead.

That's why I need to find a peaceful place. Minimize my chances of bad luck.

[PortInStorm]

Free healthcare? You do realize somebody pays for that right? There's no such thing as a free lunch. The government only gets its money from its citizens.
You've got to be kidding me- that's got to be the worst insult to my intelligence I've ever heard.

Apparently it needs to be said :irked:- As a 32-year old Canadian citizen who freakin' PAYS THOSE TAXES, of course I know.

[Ytterbium]

That's why I need to find a peaceful place. Minimize my chances of bad luck.Many peaceful places here in Europe have conscription.

The UK have not though and they speak English too.

Check this map. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[eMachine]

Well, there's all that Iraq business...and I'm worried that Mr. Warmonger McCain might get elected president and send everyone he possibly can to go fight. The Iraq war is ridiculous. Nobody wants to be over there. I imagine a draft will cause a huge uproar among Americans and things might get nasty. I'd rather not be around for that.



That's why I need to find a peaceful place. Minimize my chances of bad luck.

Don't assume there would be any less war with Hillary or Obama as president either. We lost as many (or more) US soldiers during Bill Clinton's presidency as we have with George W.

My husband and I have been discussing where to go if we have to leave as well, but I don't know what it takes to become a citizen elsewhere either. I've been thinking Australia or New Zealand rather than Canada, my husband hates the snow. :p

[eternaltriangle]

I sense a military draft coming up and with my luck I'll be the first to go. I'm trying to figure out the best way to legally avoid it. My idea is to move to Canada and become an actual citizen there, as opposed to simply fleeing when I get a draft notice. I'm trying to be smart about this. Admittedly I know nothing about obtaining citizenship to another country or whether I would be able to return to the US at a later time if I so desired. There are also a million other issues regarding basic stuff like finding employment and adapting to the new lifestyle.

As an INTJ, I like to look at all the options no matter how crazy they sound. So what do you, fellow forum users, think of my insane idea and what better options do I have?

I am a Canadian living in the US (for school) who has heard that threat before, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that you will never act on it.

I would suggest that your best solution is to do nothing. The notion that the US is going to re-introduce the draft in the near future is simply ridiculous. Military paradigms are shifting away from mass armies and towards a more specialized military force. Contrary to the perceptions of some, soldiers have never been better educated, and their jobs have never been more mentally demanding. Filling the ranks with just plain anybody is not a good solution to that problem.

The kind of war that might require mass-mobilization is the likely emerging super-power conflict between China and the US (possible a China-India war in which the US intervenes). That isn't on the horizon for many years to come, and will almost certainly embroil Canada as well.

That said, Canada is a good country, depending upon your needs and preferences - but also arguably a lousy one.

In Canada you will be getting better government services, but at the same time lower incomes for most jobs relative to the US and higher taxes. Don't just look at what jobs pay and apply the exchange rate - the Canadian dollar is highly variable, and is presently at its highest point in 50 years (roughly at parity with the US dollar). 8 years ago, the dollar was worth about 65 cents US. You need to look at purchashing power parity - what basket of goods would a Canadian dollar buy in Canada, versus an American dollar in the US? Then, in Canada, you have to remember that there is a 13% sales tax across the entire country. That said the economy is doing well - although problems in the US will affect Canada (especially Ontario) which does 80% of its trade with the US. Alberta (which has oil) is probably the best place to find a job right now - but beware: the jobs will pay a lot, but then you will realize how expensive houses are (if you are lucky enough to find one - my cousin moved out there, and ended up living in Holiday Inn for a few months).

On the plus side, you get universal healthcare. There are waiting lists for a few operations, and the quality of service is slightly lower than in the US. However, it is free, and very convenient (and Canadian life expectancy is a fair bit higher than that of the US). Moreover, you don't have to worry about your pocketbook when checking out whether you have certain problems, so they will tend to get diagnosed earlier - countering the lower quality (if you are rich there are private clinics - even though Canadian politicians will claim that healthcare is all public, about 25% of healthcare dollars are spent on private insurance plans). You pay for it through higher taxes, and in part because Canada free-rides on R&D done in the US.

The public education system in Canada is markedly better for high school students. Canada ranks in the top 5 in every category of the OECD PISA tests. Alberta, BC, Quebec and Ontario do particularly well. On the other hand, Canadian universities are not bad, but not good either (depending upon the field). If I were a graduate student (and I am) I would rather go to the US. American graduate schools are more rigorous, more advanced methodologically, and they have more money to pay graduate students (moreover, they don't have a million MA students around just to foot the bills). Canadian degrees, for the most part, will have value in Canada, but little recognition outside (if you don't believe me, look at placement statistics), apart from a few programs and schools.

Canada has substantially less crime than the United States, however. While the US has 0.042802 murders per 1,000 people, Canada has 0.0149063 per 1,000 people, or about one third the murder rate of the US. If you like hunting, guns are somewhat more regulated up there, but you can still get rifles and such (handguns are banned in cities).

Canadians are very tolerant people, and, if you move to a big city (especially Toronto or Vancouver), be prepared for a lot of diversity. However, that doesn't mean there are no tensions - if you move to Quebec (even in English-speaking parts), you will notice that the French and English don't always get along. In Northern Ontario and some cities in the west Native Canadians and white Canadians clash similarly.

Oh and on the environment, there is more recycling up there, but our emissions per capita are very similar to that of the US. Canada signed the Kyoto accord, but didn't do anything to reduce emissions - and had a faster increase in emissions than the US over the past decade.

With the good there is always some bad (if you are terrified of wars, do note that Canada has a Conservative government that is strongly supportive of the war in Afghanistan - Canada's staying out of Iraq was largely the result of a Quebec election in which the government didn't want to anger French Canadians such that the separatists would win).





eternaltriangle added to this post, 3 minutes and 51 seconds later...

Don't assume there would be any less war with Hillary or Obama as president either. We lost as many (or more) US soldiers during Bill Clinton's presidency as we have with George W.

My husband and I have been discussing where to go if we have to leave as well, but I don't know what it takes to become a citizen elsewhere either. I've been thinking Australia or New Zealand rather than Canada, my husband hates the snow. :p


Not all of Canada is particularly cold or snowy. British Columbia has a very mild climate, at least in the southern part of the province. They get very little snow (but a lot of rain). Southern Ontario is also not that bad - it is consistently less snowy or cold than most of the major northern US cities. I have moved from Toronto to southern Indiana, and the difference has been minimal (whenever I am in Indianapolis it feels colder than Toronto ever did).