'Too Many Big Words'

[Haphazard]

I didn't know where to put this, but I suppose it has to do with relating to other people, so I'll put it here. If this is the wrong place, I'm sorry, just move it.

So, today after a 30-minute presentation, I got some critique from my class. There were two main critiques, one that the presentation was extremely dense in its analysis and the other was that I used a lot of big words. I don't remember any big words in particular, but apparently a big one was 'hedonism.'

After explaining to some friends how my presentation went, nearly all of them said, "Well, that's just how you talk."

This may or may not be a big problem when I actually do the real presentation, because this was a panel of student judges and the actual panel will be of teachers. I can understand changing natural speech patterns to get rid of words like 'like' and 'um,' but what am I supposed to do for something like this? Have you ever been told to turn off your vocabulary? How do you do it?

[Homini Lupus]

Talking to a professor, I would keep the "big" words. They cannot admit if they don't understand them since by doing so they would say you have a better knowledge of language.

Given that I never turn off my vocabulary (it may seem poor here because i'm no native english) but sometimes take time to explain an unusual word before i get interrupted by people unlikely to know it.

[SeaCzar]

Change not who or how you are. You have a gift of intelligence. Those student judges are obviously not so gifted. Further, its not their opinion that counts. Should you get the same reaction from your teachers, transfer to another university where the teachers are intelligent.

[Haphazard]

Change not who or how you are. You have a gift of intelligence. Those student judges are obviously not so gifted. Further, its not their opinion that counts. Should you get the same reaction from your teachers, transfer to another university where the teachers are intelligent.

I go to a public high school so transferring out just because of vocabulary differences is not an option.

I wouldn't usually try to 'dumb down' my vocabulary but if my judges don't understand my vocabulary, it's going to affect my grade -- for example, last year I had judges that had signed up for a presentation on women in sports and ended up with a historical analysis of satire. That one didn't go very well...

[Uytuun]

I get that all the time...I talk in a very idiosyncratic way with a ton of big words and jargonesque language (gotta love words with Latin roots), but also with quite a lot of pauses, neologisms, nonsense words and words from foreign languages...people only tend to comment on the big words...they seem to dislike it immensely and often interpret it as an attack on their intellectual capacities. I also speak very silently. In class I can speak loudly, though. My style of communicating is mostly listening and then commenting from time to time. Monologue isn't my thing.

I don't generally change my speech pattern, but when I see that communication really fails, then I do of course. I think it's highly exhausting because I already have trouble putting into words what I mean without having to adapt the way I speak to the needs of the listeners...but I do it when it's necessary.

Hedonism...well, I can see how some highschool kids might think that too difficult a word.

I guess what you need to know is what the goal of the presentation is. Is it about making a thorough presentation on subject X or is it about teaching the kids in your class something about subject X? Considering you mentioned a panel of teacher judges, I wouldn't worry and go for the big words...

Do some background research on your judges? :p

[integratedvelocity]

Hmmm, I use large words much more often when writing, though I suppose that is fairly common. Luckily, I am now in an environment where most people know as many or more large words than I do, so verbosity is not an issue.

[Haphazard]

Hedonism...well, I can see how some highschool kids might think that too difficult a word.

I guess what you need to know is what the goal of the presentation is. Is it about making a thorough presentation on subject X or is it about teaching the kids in your class something about subject X? Considering you mentioned a panel of teacher judges, I wouldn't worry and go for the big words...

Do some background research on your judges? :p

My goal is to prove a thesis, so I guess it'd be to be thorough.

I would do background research on the judges but we don't get to know who they are until they're actually judging, and they only sign up about a week in advance.

[BlueTopaz]

Too many big words??! What a sad indictment on what we have become. I say good for you Hap, for being who and what you are, and still in high school yet.
Presentations should generally be geared toward the audience, but in this case, where you are in an academic environment (yes, even high school:rolleyes:) "big words" ought to be deemed appropriate.

[Zilal]

I consider it very important to use terms my audience can understand. But I don't scrap big words... instead, I'll define them in my presentation. "Earth's insolation, or the amount of solar energy it receives, is affected by the obliquity (tilt) of its axis." I think that's the best of both worlds.

[Kotetsu]

If I gave a 30 minute presentation and the only comment I received (beyond bald compliments) was "you used too many big words" I'd express my lack of confidence in the competence of the judging panel.

[Haphazard]

If I gave a 30 minute criticism and the only comment I received (beyond bald compliments) was "you used too many big words" I'd express my lack of confidence in the competence of the judging panel.

That wasn't their only criticism, but that was the only thing that I didn't notice as I was presenting -- my power point flubbed up, and I noticed that, and I noticed a lot of other things, but I wasn't even thinking about what I was saying. It's kind of worrisome.

[Santana28]

i hate to say it, but i had a similar problem when i was in high school. pretty much, i would write whatever it was i wanted to write - and then i would "proofread" my paper and go back and replace any "big" words with "small" words for the purpose of not confusing or irritating my readers. of course, if i had an intelligent teacher who i respected and appreciated my efforts, i never self-sanitized any of it. thats just the way things are, sadly.

[Uytuun]

A week should give you plenty of time to conduct some research. ;)

And you could always ask them.

[weird no more]

I think you should listen to your students. I don't think using easy to understand or simple language should hinder your presentation at all.

The right thing to do would be to minimise the big words but still keep in enough to wow your peers.





weird no more added to this post, 6 minutes and 36 seconds later...

I am so glad you guys exist. It has been so hard trying to communicate with people and not being able to truly do so. Seeing the blank expressions and the 'are you for real' looks when I start to drone on yet feel totally exhausted by trying to prove my communication skills has been so fricking (exsqueeze me) hard!

I could never understand why my co workers always wanted to do lunch or why they felt the need to be around all the time. Can't they see that I just want to be left alone?

[Haphazard]

I think you should listen to your students. I don't think using easy to understand or simple language should hinder your presentation at all.

The right thing to do would be to minimise the big words but still keep in enough to wow your peers.

Well, there are two conflicting parts of this presentation -- to sound natural and to be intelligible.

My natural speech pattern involves big words, so how am I supposed to simple them up? I'm really not that great at thinking on my feet, so I know I would be able to make things simpler on notecards and powerpoints but I don't know what to do with myself. It's hard to tell what's a big word and what's not sometimes.

I was wondering if there was any advice on how to do this.

[Zilal]

It's hard to tell what's a big word and what's not sometimes.

I was wondering if there was any advice on how to do this.

Good question... I'm not sure I really have any useful advice, but I did have experience... I worked for four years at an aquarium giving presentations to the public on marine life, and I suppose I have an intuitive grasp of which terms to use when, but I also picked up a lot just from doing it. If people keep saying, "What's molting?" then I figure I can assume that's too big a word. If you're going to keep giving presentations on a particular topic, you'll probably get a sense too. You can also give your presentations to friends and family first.

But I'll emphasize again my appreciation of the technique of explaining rather than scrapping many technical terms. I think people basically like learning new words, if they're presented the right way.

[Haphazard]

Good question... I'm not sure I really have any useful advice, but I did have experience... I worked for four years at an aquarium giving presentations to the public on marine life, and I suppose I have an intuitive grasp of which terms to use when, but I also picked up a lot just from doing it. If people keep saying, "What's molting?" then I figure I can assume that's too big a word. If you're going to keep giving presentations on a particular topic, you'll probably get a sense too. You can also give your presentations to friends and family first.

But I'll emphasize again my appreciation of the technique of explaining rather than scrapping many technical terms. I think people basically like learning new words, if they're presented the right way.

I know there are some literary terms that I need to define to give the presentation justice, but I don't know about everything else that just gets thrown in.

I know, personally, that I'd rather have a word or two go over my head then have every word that might be 'big' defined to me, but is that just me? I don't want to insult the judge's intelligence.

[Lucid]

I think, with regard to communication and big words, you have to ask yourself what your goal is. If your goal is to communicate something effectively to an audience then you need to tailor your methods of communication to suit that audience. You wouldn't have given your presentation in Latin just to prove that you could, right?
However, if your less worried about communicating something to your audience than you are about maybe the sound and the quality of the writing, or just pleasing yourself, then fuck 'em. Use whatever words you want.
Tailor how you communicate for the purpose.

[Haphazard]

I think, with regard to communication and big words, you have to ask yourself what your goal is. If your goal is to communicate something effectively to an audience then you need to tailor your methods of communication to suit that audience. You wouldn't have given your presentation in Latin just to prove that you could, right?
However, if your less worried about communicating something to your audience than you are about maybe the sound and the quality of the writing, or just pleasing yourself, then fuck 'em. Use whatever words you want.
Tailor how you communicate for the purpose.

My goal is to get a good grade. That means my judges need to understand what the hell I'm saying, but that also means that I can't insult their intelligences. This is a very delicate line and I don't know how to walk it.

[robin.]

So perhaps this is just me here, but I actually think that being able to express yourself succinctly with an average vocabulary is a very good thing. No, you shouldn't sacrifice clarity, but I think that it's important for our ideas to be accessible to all people.

It's like when you ask a professor something, and this person is really brilliant, but when he goes to explain it to you he just can't bring it down to a simple level. Maybe he goes off on tangents and talks about other cool things that weren't what you were asking about. Maybe he just can't make it any simpler for you. Either way, his lofty ideas were not adequately conveyed because you couldn't understand him.

Of course a large vocabulary is great because it makes our language more interesting, and we should use these words when they are necessary. I think, however, that just sticking fancy words in here and there, while it might be fun for us, can sometimes (but not always) be inefficient when we need to get our ideas across to others. We shouldn't overlook the talent it takes to express great, complicated ideas with simple words.

[ginandsour]

You seem to be doing just fine when you write. You're not exactly throwing around those $2 words on the forum. Try pretending you're "talking" to the forum and see if that helps?

[DeadSpace]

Build a mental watcher, moniters what you're thinking of saying, adjusts vocabulary/cadence/tone to the person(s) you're saying it to. Not real difficult, becomes a habit after awhile.
You can judge someones responses pretty easily to what you say, disinterest, annoyance, puzzlement, interest...use those to adjust how you talk, what words you use. Eye movements, facial expressions...some very slight, overall body language, tones and nuances in their voice when they reply. Advantages is you can get feedback to what you say, analyze it, and adjust all in microseconds...listeners never notice. Communication is a difficult art...especially if you want to be understood...and having an unusual way of thinking makes it even harder.

[Haphazard]

You seem to be doing just fine when you write. You're not exactly throwing around those $2 words on the forum. Try pretending you're "talking" to the forum and see if that helps?

Writing for me is much, much easier than trying to express myself with words. Probably because I have so much practice.

I don't know what happened back there. I don't know how much of my presentation's 'big words' were because I knew a lot about the topic and would use the proper terminology, or that's just how I talk, or if did throw in some words that just threw some people off. I think I do have a recording, so if I can stand to watch myself do this presentation, I'll take a look and see exactly what happened, but I'm so afraid that I won't find anything wrong with my speech...

[Gabrielle]

I had that problem; whenever I did presentations random "big words" just popped out of my mouth. IE:

"In the retrospect, I must affirm the belief of x and ascertain that so and so cannot be denied; however, the belief should have been augmented by more substantial evidences, which the author failed to produce."

That sentence contained three SAT vocabulary words (and yes, I actually said that sentence during my speech). Apparently they believed that I was speaking in a foreign language. Because it was a Speech class, I got a D on it.

After learning that lesson, I decided on something - when talking to the mass populi, KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. This seems to work immensely.

[NeonTetra]

I think, with regard to communication and big words, you have to ask yourself what your goal is. If your goal is to communicate something effectively to an audience then you need to tailor your methods of communication to suit that audience. You wouldn't have given your presentation in Latin just to prove that you could, right?
However, if your less worried about communicating something to your audience than you are about maybe the sound and the quality of the writing, or just pleasing yourself, then fuck 'em. Use whatever words you want.
Tailor how you communicate for the purpose.

My goal is to get a good grade. That means my judges need to understand what the hell I'm saying, but that also means that I can't insult their intelligences. This is a very delicate line and I don't know how to walk it.

What kind of words are you using? If you're saying "The denouement of my day was explicated to my family as we masticated our pabulum," then no one needs to have the OED to understand what you're saying! Of course that sentence was an exaggeration but you get my point. The best writing is done on an 8th grade level. Most newspapers and magazines write at that level. If you have a large vocabulary then you certainly know enough synonyms to relate to those less well read to you. It's really like Lucid explained. I have many more words in my vocabulary than I use in regular everyday speech. Think of your audience, they're high school students. What are most high schoolers reading? It's certainly not the New Yorker or anything like that. So let's take the word "pabulum." If you're using a rather high level word like that you know that related words that mean approximately same thing are "food" and "nourishment." "Denouement" equivalents are "climax" and "high point." Just search those vast stores of word webs in your brain and level down a few notches. It's not changing your essence to be able to communicate effectively with different people. Another thing is people can easily tell when you're talking down to them and you don't want to risk your grade being damaged because of a perceived superior attitude coming from you.

If it helps and if this is for presentation that you can prepare for and you have an idea that this may be a more difficult concept that requires a $10 word, see if you can take that particular concept or sentence and restate it two more ways. If you feel comfortable that the sentence can stay as is, but when you see that people aren't responding or understanding what you're saying use those alternate explanations of your idea or sentence. Personally, I've seen teachers more impressed that you can explain a concept in many different ways, but the people you deal with sound overly rigid and exacting.

And another thing: people aren't stupid. That's an arrogant INTJ belief (oops did I just say that!!!) Most people understand far more than what you give them credit for. Your audience is mostly 14-18 year olds and the teachers. The teachers of 14-18 year olds have come to expect certain behaviors from them. Sometimes the teachers themselves become so used to a valid behavioral pattern that they observe in these kids that when another kid breaks that pattern they don't know what to make of them. This doesn't mean that anyone involved is stupid or unintelligent. We are all trained to behave and expect certain behaviors from people and it's hard to break out of the attitude.

Hope that helps! :)

[Haphazard]

What kind of words are you using? If you're saying "The denouement of my day was explicated to my family as we masticated our pabulum," then no one needs to have the OED to understand what you're saying! Of course that sentence was an exaggeration but you get my point. The best writing is done on an 8th grade level. Most newspapers and magazines write at that level. If you have a large vocabulary then you certainly know enough synonyms to relate to those less well read to you. It's really like Lucid explained. I have many more words in my vocabulary than I use in regular everyday speech. Think of your audience, they're high school students. What are most high schoolers reading? It's certainly not the New Yorker or anything like that. So let's take the word "pabulum." If you're using a rather high level word like that you know that related words that mean approximately same thing are "food" and "nourishment." "Denouement" equivalents are "climax" and "high point." Just search those vast stores of word webs in your brain and level down a few notches. It's not changing your essence to be able to communicate effectively with different people. Another thing is people can easily tell when you're talking down to them and you don't want to risk your grade being damaged because of a perceived superior attitude coming from you.

If it helps and if this is for presentation that you can prepare for and you have an idea that this may be a more difficult concept that requires a $10 word, see if you can take that particular concept or sentence and restate it two more ways. If you feel comfortable that the sentence can stay as is, but when you see that people aren't responding or understanding what you're saying use those alternate explanations of your idea or sentence. Personally, I've seen teachers more impressed that you can explain a concept in many different ways, but the people you deal with sound overly rigid and exacting.

And another thing: people aren't stupid. That's an arrogant INTJ belief (oops did I just say that!!!) Most people understand far more than what you give them credit for. Your audience is mostly 14-18 year olds and the teachers. The teachers of 14-18 year olds have come to expect certain behaviors from them. Sometimes the teachers themselves become so used to a valid behavioral pattern that they observe in these kids that when another kid breaks that pattern they don't know what to make of them. This doesn't mean that anyone involved is stupid or unintelligent. We are all trained to behave and expect certain behaviors from people and it's hard to break out of the attitude.

Hope that helps! :)

I'm not calling anybody stupid, it's just that I'm absolutely bewildered.

I didn't really think I used that many big words -- I tried to explain terms that were key to my presentation, like 'trappings' and what exactly 'motivation' meant in context, and I think the only big words I know I threw in were narcissictic, which I used in the context of villains being vain about their appearance, and hedonistic, which I used in the context of a character needing a carefree lifestyle.

I'm kind of hoping, at least, that maybe it wasn't my exact words that were difficult but the differences in sentence structure and uncommon alternatives that might have thrown people off. If that's the case, I think it might be easier to fix...

[pavman]

Don't compromise. I did this in HS to fit in better, but I think it was to my detriment. I still do it sometimes out of habit these days, but I try not to as it hinders more than it helps.

I'll give you an example....

I noticed that when I spoke to someone before emailing or writing something to them, they would make a judgment on my level of intelligence and other factors. I adopted a kind of working-class attitude/word usage for everyday normal interaction with people (and often found myself including jargon and slang into the dialogue to help the conversation flow smoothly). This was partly to fit in with the crowd and partly so they'd understand what I was saying. Eventually, this became a habit which became more in-grained as I got older.

I later noticed after sending some well-written emails, I received very different looks/feedback from superiors/peers than just what they heard and saw with verbal interaction. This made me re-think my strategy, and I realized that by dumbing down the way I spoke, I caused others to make character judgments that were inaccurate with regard to my intelligence and thought processes.

The contrast was so stark that I stopped doing it, and now don't care if I make people feel uncomfortable with words they don't know. This did backfire once when a colleague accused me of using a word-a-day calendar when I used the proper software engineering terminology deprecated for an obsolete version of some software I had written. This was after I had stopped acting like a run-of-the-mill joe and started using the words I thought rather than words that they would feel more comfortable with.

The payoff is that more people respected me and I could teach them new words they may never have heard. I've always had a very transparent view of information and knowledge sharing, and by dumbing down a presentation or even everyday interaction, we are sort of doing a disservice to others.

[INTJoe]

There is really no excuse anymore. With the internet, and "dictionary.com" anyone can look up any word easily. One doesn't have to crack open book to verify what "hedonism" means.

I know my own vocabulary has grown because I utilize Dictionary.com regularly.

It's always good to "know your audience", but don't dumb yourself down to cater to these fools.

[SeaCzar]

And another thing: people aren't stupid. That's an arrogant INTJ belief (oops did I just say that!!!)

Read: Be concise, not prolix.


You are only fooling yourself, NeonTetra. People are pretty stupid.

[Neom4a1]

Sorry for the minor gravedig but I'm really hyped about this site and want to throw in my two cents. I've found that it's best not to compromise and to just explain what the words mean if they appear to be puzzled by them. It annoys me too when I just use a relatively simple word like 'ramifications' and people give me strange looks. :undecided: Like a previous poster said, just explain as you go along. Show no remorse for your large vocabulary.

[acyckowski]

Here's my couple of pennies....

Word choice in public speaking is about what ideas you are trying to communicate, and to whom you are tyring to communicate them. The use of big words can hurt or help, depending on several things.

In the first place is your natural pattern of speech. In your case, adjusting down "may" be appropriate in some circumstances. I would be careful, though, not to overthink this one--if you force it too hard, you'll sound unnatural and uncomfortable, and subconciously lose credibility with your audience. Best to practice it in everyday conversation first, so you can turn it on and off as needed.

In the second place is the context of the speech. Explaining why you liked Huckleberry Finn to your English Lit class is a lot different than presenting results of an experiment to your Physics class. The complexity and nuance of certain ideas require bigger words: don't say "wizened" if all you mean is "old," but don't say "old" if you mean to imply "wizened." In your example, I find it hard to capture the essence and implication of "hedonism," without actually using the word. If "hedonism" is what you meant, it's what you needed to say.

In the final analysis, did you effectively communicate your ideas? If not, look at your word choice. If so, don't worry about it.

[Theodoric]

So, today after a 30-minute presentation, I got some critique from my class. There were two main critiques, one that the presentation was extremely dense in its analysis and the other was that I used a lot of big words. I don't remember any big words in particular, but apparently a big one was 'hedonism.'


Personally, I would disregard the opinions of the typical American High School student. These people are not the ones that will be judging or grading your presentations, so their opinions matter not. They are non intellectual at best and functionally illiterate at worst. The only words they appear to understand anymore are the shorthanded versions of words, acronyms, and slang commonly used in text messaging and internet chat.

Don't believe me? Read this article. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You must ask yourself this question. If you wanted to make your speech understandable, even recognizable, to these people, could you accomplish the purpose of your presentation if you limited yourself to one syllable words?

[TheLastMohican]

Don't believe me? Read this article. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You must ask yourself this question. If you wanted to make your speech understandable, even recognizable, to these people, could you accomplish the purpose of your presentation if you limited yourself to one syllable words?

Funny mental image of a text speak presentation:

Alex the gr8 pwned darius...

[Theodoric]

Funny mental image of a text speak presentation:

Alex the gr8 pwned darius...

Oh sweet zombie baby Jesus no! If high school teachers started adopting internet chat as a way to reach out to students I think we would have reached an all new low for our society.

Remember ebonics about a decade ago?

[TheLastMohican]

Oh sweet zombie baby Jesus no! If high school teachers started adopting internet chat as a way to reach out to students I think we would have reached an all new low for our society.

Remember ebonics about a decade ago?

No; I was 7. But I have a vague idea of the controversy.

[RedOwen333]

Pavman is right - don't compromise. But do you mind if I ask - do you speak in a monotone voice? A lot of INTJ's (myself included) struggle with public speaking as a result. If you can smile and modulate the tone of your voice, people will listen if you're reading out the telphone directory, because more than one part of their brain is being stimulated at the same time (logical and musical). Move around a bit and gesticulate appropriately and they'll listen even more intently. They will also then ASK when they hear a word they don't understand.

Note: Best not go in there like Robin Williams if you've been the straight man in the past, otherwise the contrast with your previous style will be too much too soon, if you know what I mean.

[Szarra]

It's hard to tell what's a big word and what's not sometimes.

I was wondering if there was any advice on how to do this.

I was once given a test where I had to say the definition of several "large" words. I was apparently not doing a very good job because the examiner looked at me and said, "Stop. Explain these words as if you were trying to make a 5 year old understand."
Give that a try when looking over your speech. :)

[TheLastMohican]

I was once given a test where I had to say the definition of several "large" words. I was apparently not doing a very good job because the examiner looked at me and said, "Stop. Explain these words as if you were trying to make a 5 year old understand."Give that a try when looking over your speech. :)

That's stupid. Many long words are long because they define more advanced concepts. These concepts usually require other rather long words to accurately describe.

[Szarra]

That's stupid. Many long words are long because they define more advanced concepts. These concepts usually require other rather long words to accurately describe.

That greatly depends upon the words. There are some that you would not be able to bring down to a lower level without losing all of the various images that the longer word would conjure. Or should I say "bring to mind". Or "make you think".

Some people might not understand: He was a hedonist.
But they might get: He was after only the greatest of pleasures.
For a 5 year old: He did what felt really good.

I'm not saying to use the last example. If you can keep it in mind to reach towards that level, then you might be able to fall somewhere between first and last.

[thod]

The idea is to get across your meaning with no ambiguity in the fewest words. Consider if you were drafting a legal contract, then any ambiguity will be ceased on by the other party. The judge will say it could have meant that and award the case to them.

You can always use more words to get the job done. This depends on you audience. Some will require you to call a spade an earth moving horticultural implement or a chip a silicon based electronic computing device.

There is the concept of 'eloquence', ideally you say it not only in the fewest possible words, but you shorten it even further by the cross linking between sentences and paragraphs. This the skill, saying in 20 words where another man uses 100.

[Serket]

In my opinion there is no right answer we can give you. There are simply too many variables. As always, I will give you two examples:

My brother: when in 12th grade was doing the highest level of English for which he had to compose a major work. He chose to write a 19th Century gothic short story. Which he wrote in the now archaic form of 19th century English. Appropriate no? His teacher failed his first draft saying that the exam markers would have needed a dictionary next to help them to translate every second word.

Me: same teacher had me write a short story that was to continue on from the initial meeting of Elizabeth and Mr Darcy in Pride and Prejudice. I started with "Unbeknownst to all assmbled...". He raved about me first word, saying it clearly demonstrated that I was aware of audience and purpose, as no one nowadays uses that word. Aside: I read it in a newspaper earlier this week.

Adendum, a third story: In 8th grade we had a public reading competition. You had to read about 6 pages from a book of your choice to the whole grade. I initially chose Pride and Prejudice, but decided I would be the only 8th grader to understand it, so I changed to a lighter book about a girl struggling to fit in with the tall thin blonde stereotype in high school. Although, unusually, the response of my peers was that I was outstanding, being both emotive and eloquent, the vice-principle awarded it to a friend of mine who had read an exerpt of some book that I cannot now recall. It was the literary equivalent of Harry Potter. She was praised for it becuase it contained "big words".

So, the moral of the story is... sometimes your intellectual prowess will serve you well, other times it will intimidate and inspire seething resentment in others (those who are intimidated, fearing they are not as smart as you). I think you should at all times try to strike a compromise between what others can cope with and your own intellectual integrity. Also, hedonism is not a big word.

[TheLastMohican]

My brother: when in 12th grade was doing the highest level of English for which he had to compose a major work. He chose to write a 19th Century gothic short story. Which he wrote in the now archaic form of 19th century English. Appropriate no? His teacher failed his first draft saying that the exam markers would have needed a dictionary next to help them to translate every second word.

What is advanced English for if not to know how to read and write archaic compositions?

Me: same teacher had me write a short story that was to continue on from the initial meeting of Elizabeth and Mr Darcy in Pride and Prejudice. I started with "Unbeknownst to all assmbled...". He raved about me first word, saying it clearly demonstrated that I was aware of audience and purpose, as no one nowadays uses that word. Aside: I read it in a newspaper earlier this week.

Ridiculous. I use that word in normal conversation.

Adendum, a third story: In 8th grade we had a public reading competition. You had to read about 6 pages from a book of your choice to the whole grade. I initially chose Pride and Prejudice, but decided I would be the only 8th grader to understand it, so I changed to a lighter book about a girl struggling to fit in with the tall thin blonde stereotype in high school. Although, unusually, the response of my peers was that I was outstanding, being both emotive and eloquent, the vice-principle awarded it to a friend of mine who had read an exerpt of some book that I cannot now recall. It was the literary equivalent of Harry Potter. She was praised for it becuase it contained "big words".

No-win situation. Either way, you get marked down. :irked:

[Maverick]

I didn't know where to put this, but I suppose it has to do with relating to other people, so I'll put it here. If this is the wrong place, I'm sorry, just move it.

So, today after a 30-minute presentation, I got some critique from my class. There were two main critiques, one that the presentation was extremely dense in its analysis and the other was that I used a lot of big words. I don't remember any big words in particular, but apparently a big one was 'hedonism.'

After explaining to some friends how my presentation went, nearly all of them said, "Well, that's just how you talk."

This may or may not be a big problem when I actually do the real presentation, because this was a panel of student judges and the actual panel will be of teachers. I can understand changing natural speech patterns to get rid of words like 'like' and 'um,' but what am I supposed to do for something like this? Have you ever been told to turn off your vocabulary? How do you do it?

Considering that your peers were judging, I would dismiss this criticism as irrelevant. They are probably feeling threatened by your perceived sense of superiority over them. Hence, they will try to bring you down and will criticize you to maintain a positive impression of themselves (i.e. "he uses complicated words, but it's OK if we don't, because using complicated words is a bad thing"). I'm afraid that, once you show your are different to other people and better than them in anyway, you will generate such reactions.

Chances are that a teacher would have praised you for the same thing.

[futureperfect5]

You have to remember that the newspapers in the US are suppose to be kept at an 8th grade level and the film industry explains and teachers the public because the assumption is that mos people are quite ... limited in their exposure to knowledge ...

We were taught Greco-Roman philosophy and culture in 5th grade, in 3rd grade we had started making book reports and writing essays; we were taught parliamentary procedure and Robert's Rules of Order ... Then when I went to college I found out that many students from different states had never written reports before. In fact, the first 2 years of college in the U.S. are used to level set student abilities -- it is a repeat of what high school was supposed to accomplish.

Hold you course ... continue learning as much as you can.

I would mention that the standard practice is to define any "concepts" as you go is a conversational way that does not suggest that the audience doesn't know (even though they might not). Allow them to "save face" ...

Further, I used to discount the intelligence factor as would assume that "everyone knows" such and such: trust me they don't know and in fact many of them do not want to know or would even be defensive if you try to tell them. :embarassed: It is ... freaky.

...There were two main critiques, one that the presentation was extremely dense in its analysis and the other was that I used a lot of big words. I don't remember any big words in particular, but apparently a big one was 'hedonism.'
After explaining to some friends how my presentation went, nearly all of them said, "Well, that's just how you talk."
...I can understand changing natural speech patterns to get rid of words like 'like' and 'um,' but what am I supposed to do for something like this? Have you ever been told to turn off your vocabulary? How do you do it?

[MichaelH]

Forgive the paraphrase, but...

"One of the goals is to sound natural, and...this is how I naturally sound."

I think you've misinterpreted "natural" in this context. "Natural" refers to an even flow of speech, a regulated tone of voice, and use of everyday (for the public) language. It's about not using "um" and not saying "one dasn't!" and not sounding like a textbook. It's not about you. :)

Others have made the point that you have to speak for your audience. If your presentation goes over the heads of your audience, you have failed. It doesn't matter that the audience is, frankly, dumb. As a presenter, your job is to present your material clearly to the listeners, as much as possible.

Keep in mind: when you read something written, you can review - or stop and think for a moment - if you need to swallow a big word. When people are listening, they have to go at your pace (mwahahaha!) and that means any words that disrupt them will keep them from getting your point. Keep your sentence structure simple, pick your analysis battles, and keep your language reasonable.

Having said all that, it's other high school students. Don't sweat it too much. College will give you much more headroom to a] be intelligent and b] be yourself.

[futureperfect5]

:undecided: Well, I would agree with you in a commercial setting (marketing, sales, customer). Thinking of an academic setting ... I'm not sure about that.

"Others have made the point that you have to speak for your audience. If your presentation goes over the heads of your audience, you have failed. It doesn't matter that the audience is, frankly, dumb. As a presenter, your job is to present your material clearly to the listeners, as much as possible."

[HeterodoxRobot]

I didn't know where to put this, but I suppose it has to do with relating to other people, so I'll put it here. If this is the wrong place, I'm sorry, just move it.

So, today after a 30-minute presentation, I got some critique from my class. There were two main critiques, one that the presentation was extremely dense in its analysis and the other was that I used a lot of big words. I don't remember any big words in particular, but apparently a big one was 'hedonism.'

After explaining to some friends how my presentation went, nearly all of them said, "Well, that's just how you talk."

This may or may not be a big problem when I actually do the real presentation, because this was a panel of student judges and the actual panel will be of teachers. I can understand changing natural speech patterns to get rid of words like 'like' and 'um,' but what am I supposed to do for something like this? Have you ever been told to turn off your vocabulary? How do you do it?Modifying one's vocabulary in order to "fit in" with one's particular audience is a valuable social attribute. Would I use the word "hedonism" when talking to a bunch of six year olds? Probably not, I would probably use the word, "greed" or something to that effect, instead. Using words that are "above" your audience, not only works against you as a speaker, but rather than scaffold communication, using such circumstantially inappropriate language actually works against communication by stifling potential understanding.

The dog pees.

The canid urinates.

puppy pee-pee.

Three entirely different ways to essentially say the *exact* same thing.

Catch my drift???

[TheLastMohican]

Modifying one's vocabulary in order to "fit in" with one's particular audience is a valuable social attribute. Would I use the word "hedonism" when talking to a bunch of six year olds? Probably not, I would probably use the word, "greed" or something to that effect, instead. Using words that are "above" your audience, not only works against you as a speaker, but rather than scaffold communication, using such circumstantially inappropriate language actually works against communication by stifling potential understanding.

The dog pees.

The canid urinates.

puppy pee-pee.

Three entirely different ways to essentially say the *exact* same thing.

Catch my drift???

The big difference here is that we are referring mostly to academic settings, where the entire point is to learn such large vocabularies and use them well. What is ridiculous is that those who claim to intellectuals are shown to be hypocrites when they say you are in error for being too intellectual for them. It means they are looking down on anyone who is not exactly at their level, be they more or less learned.

[HeterodoxRobot]

In a college or high school setting, sure, I would say using *context-appropriate* "large" words is fine.

What I am trying to get at here though, is that there are certain people who are either entirely oblivious, or far too pretentious to care or realize that the words they are choosing to use are effectively *alienating* themselves and their points away from their audience.

[Theodoric]

No; I was 7. But I have a vague idea of the controversy.

It was, bizarre to say the least.

Here is a link explaining it further. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I really do not want to hijack the thread and move to a different topic.

But really, imagine if teachers were forced to adopt current slang and regional dialects. Not only would it be pandering in the grossest sense of the word, but it would undermine the educational process.

[suzyk]

I'm not that good at talking, but using big words sometimes comes naturally to me, but usually never. I'm a simple person, if I want to explain something, I will do it in the simplest of terms.

[lepetitprince]

I know how you feel. I have some friends who are big word people and other friends that occasionally pause the conversation to tell me how dumb I'm making them feel...and I really can't ever figure out why. I know I'm a grammar freak, but I generally try to keep that out of daily conversations. When someone mixes up good and well I just let that internally grate and move on...My only verbal oddity that I've noticed is that I won't split infinitives. Ever. I don't even think I ever learned not to. I just don't.

Anyway, I would just go ahead and use your big words. Like someone said, teachers will know them or will not admit to their bewilderment. Friends will get used to it or, frankly, they can't have been very good friends.

College will come soon. People there like big words I hear.

[Erika Redmark]

I feel your pain. I remember having a social studies teacher in eighth grade who handed back my written draft of a presentation I gave with the comment "Remember that you're writing for a middle-school audience". That just made me more contemptuous of said "audience" and the teacher who encouraged me to dumb down my writing for them. I agree with le Petit Prince on this one. Plus, if people don't know the word "hedonism", they should. ;D