I'm an INFJ and I'm in love with an INTJ...

[nero4alcia]

...but the problem is that I don't know how she feels! Hi, I'm Nero and I'm new to these boards. The girl I'm in love with showed me this site today, so I joined the forums, which she hasn't done yet AFAIK. Anyway, our relationship is a rather strange one so let me explain. While I live in Australia, she lives in America. I met her nearly a year ago now, back then we weren't even friends, barely acquaintances. Anyway, one thing led to another and I realized one day that I was in love with this girl. Eventually she said the same to me and I thought everything would be fine. Turns out she was lying about her feelings saying "[she] doesn't see anyone as a friend, nor [does she] love anyone, including [me]."

After this, I was, as you would expect, shattered. This isn't my first relationship, but it is my first, and last, meaningful one. Anyway, she left me for a few weeks before coming back, once again saying she loved me. I was skeptical at first but, I thought that this time she really meant it. I was wrong, again, and she said it was a lie. I don't know why she did it but I have forgiven her and we're still friends...well, at least by my standards. She said recently many times that I was a friend. Also, even though we don't have that kind of relationship anymore, a weeks later we started talking to each other like we used to, rather intimate, I feel, the only thing distinguishing us from lovers being the lack of "I love you" comments. Even still, I love her now as much as I ever have and after we finish school, end of 2009, I'm going to go and live there.

BUT...recently she has been acting a lot colder, though she usually has mood swings like that, this one has been constant for the past three days. You'd think by now I'd have given up...I'm not sure whether I should or not. But that's not what I'm here for. I want to know what you guys have to say on this. I know this ain't a matchmaker service but tbh the match has been made, I just want to discuss things is all.

So, as INTJs, what do you reckon I should do, what do you really think has happened and how do you think she really feels? I'm certain she knows how I feel about her but...I don't know what happened...for certain. Please help.
P.S: Sorry for the long-ass post. ^_^;

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I'd be running for the hills, but I'm more like her than I am like you. She sounds like she's playing games with you or using you. Either that or she's got some serious issues.

[PortInStorm]

Oh Nero, I second Vaguely. Run, run, RUN, and for heaven's sake
a) don't think she typifies the rest of us (perhaps some avoidance but not this on again off again pathological stuff, and lying)
b) don't move to America just to be with her. If you want to go for yourself, fine, but have NO expectations of her. If you think she's acting panicked/bizarre now, just wait til she feels the pressure of you moving across continents for her.

Honestly, these are issues almost completely separate from personality. Sounds very much like she'll only bring heartbreak to you.

There was recently a thread in this section from a (female) INFJ who was having a hard time with her wierd-acting love interest. Perhaps you should check it out for advice.

[Trivani]

When she first got with you she was allowing her feelings to get the best of her. Now the analytical engine is on and she isn't sure if the facts of the relationship match her criteria for what she wants. It's best not to get involved with an INTJ unless you require them to do their pros/cons analysis first.

[BlueTopaz]

Hi Nero. My advice is like the other two above. If you want to continue to be hurt, stay. She may be a wonderful person, but she sounds confused. A young INTJ may be like this. She feels the way she does (logical, cool-headed) but also feels society's expectation of her to be "womanly": to be sensitive, mushy, demonstrative. She also may have a T/F schism (like I do, I score fairly high on my 'F') and that is playing havoc with her feelings. I was like that when I was young too. Now that I'm a little older I am more comfortable with the way I am, and I know that I don't have to be the type of "feminine" woman that society generally expects of me. I am feminine, but on my own terms. In other words, I know myself and am not (well, perhaps the word is 'less') confused.
Good luck.

[paradoxes]

I've also had similar issues with a girl that I loved, acting inconsistently in the way that you describe. She's an INxP, so maybe personality type doesn't have much to do with it. Anyway, after months of reflection/hypothesizing/research/testing, I've come to the following conclusion: Girls have 2 criteria for determining who they want to be in a relationship with - sexual attraction and compatibility. One of them is a relatively stable measure, and one of them changes a lot more based on your behavior/circumstances. The compatibility measure is essentially how well you get along and how deeply you connect - with my INxP I'm pretty sure that was about as high it gets. However, the sexual attraction part is more unstable. This is probably the cause of her changing her mind about whether she loves you or not...
Sexual attraction for girls is primarily based on the self-confidence/self-sufficiency/status/strength of the guy. When a guy starts falling in love with a girl, in many cases he will act in desperate ways, make her the center of his life, pay too much attention to her, do too much stuff for her --- all of which will lessen the degree of sexual attraction that the girl feels for the guy. This is the entire reason for the phenomenon of the "friend zone" and "nice guy syndrome". If you think back on your interactions with her, can you remember any times that you acted too emotional/needy/giving with her? If she's anything like my INxP, she would have reacted by becoming more distant, maybe even hostile. But then as soon as I began to distance myself in response to her actions, she acted like she was trying to win me back. Now we could conclude that both my girl and your girl are just flat-out lying and using us... but I think a far likelier explanation is that they're just acting purely based on emotion/feelings of attraction (which of course could change by the day). Maybe the rational part of their brain is telling them to be with us, but then they get scared because they don't feel attracted. But then we pick up on this and back off, and they start to feel attracted again, and the cycle continues....

does this sound right?

[Maverick]

So, as INTJs, what do you reckon I should do, what do you really think has happened and how do you think she really feels? I'm certain she knows how I feel about her but...I don't know what happened...for certain. Please help.

I think that she was mixed up about her feelings for you. I think she wasn't madly in love even though she felt something. I think you should appreciate the relationship for what it is - friendship. I understand you have feelings for her, but she is not ready to have a relationship with you. You sound like a great guy and I'm sure you'll find the right woman with whom feelings will be reciprocated.

[nero4alcia]

Thanks a lot guys, I'm overwhelmed with the responses I got in under a day. Anyway, a lot of what you all said sounds true/familiar/wise. Paradoxes, your scenario may be what has happened. I admit, I have been very giving to her, perhaps too much so. Anyway, I told her I'd take some time off so we'll see what happens. Thank you all for your input, more would be appreciated.

[Mountain Lion]

Moving to US from Australia is a bad idea... doesn't matter whether she loves you or not ;) Stick to local girls or try a closer continent/island. It might take you two years to get over her, but you will, eventually. Just find yourself some interesting activity/hobby/job or several to occupy your time until you feel better. And in the next relationship try to restrain your enthusiasm half way.

[Parallel]

That description of her is actually exactly how my ex-bfs would probably describe me. But only because I've only recently realized how selfish I can be in romantic relationships as an INTJ.

My advice to you is that don't be too accomodating with her. Don't show her too much that you love her; just enough so that she knows you love her but she doesn't feel suffocated in you keep reinforcing that fact constantly whether its repeating it or trying to be there for her too much. I know you probably don't want to play a game with her but honestly, to not only hold her attention but get her to want to give you her attention, is to make her realize that you can be her equal in aspects of independence and self-control. INTJ girls like me and her have very short romantic relationship attention spans so the more we're not sure of what's going on, the more we need to make sure of it. I wish I could've told all this to my ex-bfs. haha

If she's not smart enough to realize how good you are for her now, she will later and probably regret it so at least that's a consolation. Don't worry about it too much.

[nero4alcia]

Thanks again for the feedback, I appreciate it. ^^ So basically, from what I gather, I should try to be more...conservative I guess. I think I may talk to her again later next week, see what happens.

[Alpha Prime]

So, as INTJs, what do you reckon I should do, what do you really think has happened and how do you think she really feels? I'm certain she knows how I feel about her but...I don't know what happened...for certain.


Man, sometimes you INFJ's really need some bitchslapping. Don't you have any respect for yourself?

/bitchslap

[Nausved]

In my experience as an INTJ, when I realize that I like someone, I like him and that's that. Nothing changes my mind unless he changes dramatically or disappears on me for a long time.

She doesn't sound like she's the right one for you. If she's doubting whether or not she loves you, she does not love you. She sounds inexperienced.

That being said, she could come to love you legitimately in the future. But, for your own sake and for hers, give her lots of room. Step back and let her figure herself out. INTJs are often unfamiliar with their more emotional sides, and she needs to become familiar with hers before she'll be ready to love someone else.

[Motor Jax]

This isn't my first relationship, but it is my first, and last, meaningful one.

this caught my eye. its not the end, mon ami. where one door closes, another opens. it could be a beginning to yourself. discover yourself first, determine if she is worth the wait for her to come to terms with herself, or move on to the next

there is a phrase that the sea is full of fish. time to throw this one back and try to catch another one. she is not the end of the line, and there you will have life beyond her



oh, and Alpha Prime, we are not ALL like that. well, i'm not anyways. but thanks anyways :rolleyes:

[Vortex]

Long distance new relationships do not work.
Long distance new relationships do not work.
Long distance new relationships do not work.


There, that should be sufficient emphasis. Even if she wasn't psycho, "new" (<12mo) relationships have a catastrophically high failure rate. The human mind isn't built for it.

She sounds like she's either using you at worst, or completely out of touch with her own emotions at best. Either way, pursuing a relationship - repeatedly - when shes in either state is emotional suicide. While painful and disheartening, walking away is the best course of action in this situation. If she stabilizes later on then you can cross that bridge if it comes - but in the meantime you can't keep impaling yourself for no gain.

[Jgib5328]

She isn't worth it dude. She's just going to mess with you. She seems like an underdeveloped INTJ or an INTJ with some emotional problems. Don't let her fool you, cut and romantic ties with her or she will keep messing with you.

[Lagawrd]

Telling you to stop going after her would not help you at all, it will just give you an opinion. From what I can understand centered around these facts (I of course cannot speculate on how it is between you two other than the facts), she is young or does not know what she wants. She probably feels sorry for you over and over while feeling sorry for herself. I can tell you, she does not love you. She might speak to you as if she does in the future, but do not be fooled.

The solution : You should study her personality further (No not reading articles), you must do field work. See if she is right for you, if she still is with all of your rationality then the next step is showing her that. This should be done in a cautious way. Telling her the result you came to will not change things, you must explain why and how.

If all fails, then you are not right for her.

[nero4alcia]

Thanks again for the responses, it makes me happy to see that there are people out there like you. I am again astonished at how close some people's lives are to mine. I think I feel very similar to your friend only, in our relationship, it is my side, I feel, that is truly involved. I would gladly go out of my way for her and I feel scared to get too close to her in case I lose control. My life hasn't changed much since I met her, only my feelings have. I'm a Christian, though not a fanatic, and I also contemplated enlisting into the military, though she wouldn't let me, even now. This is one of the many reasons I simply cannot believe that she doesn't care for me at least a little. I can't accept that all that crap we went through was all a bunch of bull, that everything she said was a lie. Right now, I'm talking to her, but nowhere near as much as I used to. I used to wait for her everyday and talk to her for as long as I possibly could until the next day, where the cycle would repeat. But now, I've tried to distance myself from her, barely ever initiating contact with her, and she is the same with me. I honestly don't know how even I feel about the whole thing. A part of me is still attracted to her but, every other time I tried to let go I wouldn't be able to bear it and I'd come back. But now, there is no urge to talk to her, no love or affection, just attraction. I'm honestly scared of the thought of losing contact with her entirely though, and I don't know what'll happen in the future. Do you guys think I'm doing the right thing? I'm trying to give her some space, as some have suggested. I only hope it isn't too late.

Well, just now I decided to draw the line, I'm cutting off contact with her, at least for now. She won't even talk to me anymore, she just gives me the cold shoulder, like she does everyone she says, and she seems proud of it. I'll let you guys know how things go, though I'm not sure I want to pursue this seemingly pointless endeavor anymore...

[Jgib5328]

I see. Well, just now I decided to draw the line, I'm cutting off contact with her, at least for now. She won't even talk to me anymore, she just gives me the cold shoulder, like she does everyone she says, and she seems proud of it. I'll let you guys know how things go, though I'm not sure I want to pursue this seemingly pointless endeavor anymore...

Dude, don't fall into her trap, she is just going to torture you. Clearly there is something wrong with her. Find a new woman, you probably don't deserve the treatment this girl is giving you.

[Motor Jax]

Dude, don't fall into her trap, she is just going to torture you. Clearly there is something wrong with her. Find a new woman, you probably don't deserve the treatment this girl is giving you.

i agree. when my second wife left with our daughter, i was torn and would have did anything to have her back. but over time, i realized that i was much better off without her. of course, i had withdrawn into myself and was destroying my self from the inside for over a year and half, but i eventually came out of it and matured from it. that happened about 3 years ago, and i am now such a wiser man than i was then.

it's a big world. there is someone out there looking for what you can possibly give them as much as what you are looking for. this girl does not seem to be it though.

Suvate

[thod]

INFJ-INTJ

Look-a-like Relations
Monovert
Information Based
Symmetric
Small Psychological Distance

These are relations between equal partners which can be called acquaintances rather than friends. There are no visual obstacles in the development of these relations, partners can talk easily almost about anything. Look-a-like partners do not feel any danger from the other partner. The strong sides of the partners are different in the such a way that almost any conversations between them always fall into the area of the confidence of only one of the partners. Look-a-like partners also have similar problems which makes them feel rather sympathetic towards each other instead of being critical of each other's vulnerabilities.

Understanding between partners is usually good. Collaboration between them may be very fruitful especially if partners feel a mutual attraction. When partners loose their feeling of sympathy for each other through anger or any other reason, they can apply pressure to their partner's vulnerabilities. This can sometimes be really unexpected and unpleasant for both partners.

Arguments in Look-a-like relations are not common practice. The partners usually try to help each other, or at least feel when their partner requires some form of assistance. However, in many cases the help is not effective enough because partners have similar problems. Look-a-like relations have an average degree of comfort. Partners do not have anything against each other but also nothing for which to struggle. These relations can normally bring a feeling of satisfaction from interaction with an equal and not boring partner.

[eternaltriangle]

Don't move to the US, but you could always take a trip there (if you have the time and money). Most people, unlike me, seem to enjoy traveling. This way, you can see her in person and see what she is like, and even if everything doesn't work out you can have an interesting trip (unless she lives in Kansas).

I will say from my experience that I have said I loved somebody before many a time, without it being true... I just figured I was supposed to say it at that time.

[nero4alcia]

I'm glad you got things worked out, I really am. :D I honestly don't feel that I love her so I might just visit.

[stasis]

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