Does anyone believe in this 2012 Shift in world consciousness

[INTJayW]

I just started reading this book called 2012 The return of Quetzalcoatl.

Any one read it?

Its seems to be about the world approaching the end of a great cycle of thousands of years. It seems to confirm another book that I was reading about the 25,920 year cycle of the earth correlating to the zodiac and that our consciousness moves up and down through the 7 heavens based on our point in the cycle.

Is this stuff connected to Kundalini or Astral Travel??

Any New Agers, Pagans know anything about this stuff.

Do you believe in this stuff?:huh:

[Trivani]

I might be able to give a different perspective. I am LDS (Mormon) and we believe that Christ came to visit the ancient inhabitants of the Americas after He was resurrected. We believe (officially or unofficially I don't know) that Quetzalcoatl was Jesus Christ. We believe that Christ will be returning soon to reign over the world for a thousand years in peace. We are warned that no one but God knows the exact time that Jesus will return so we should not speculate but we are also told that we can get a general idea by watching the signs of the times. The idea of something big happening around the end of 2012 seems to ring true, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Antares]

The age of Aquarius... I can't say I believe in Astrology. The New Age people can't even agree amongst themselves which exact year the new age would come. My sign is the sign of Jesus, Pisces, but I think I definitely like Aquarius more :D So, I would be interested to know what would happen at the dawning of a new age, besides the Judeo-Christian notion that Jesus will return, of course.

[BlueTopaz]

What makes Jesus a Pisces? December 25th makes him Aquarius doesn't it? (I don't believe a bit in astrology).
I think a shift in human-kind "consciousness" is inevitable, but I don't believe in any mystical "time-frame".

[Antares]

What makes Jesus a Pisces? December 25th makes him Aquarius doesn't it? (I don't believe a bit in astrology).
I think a shift in human-kind "consciousness" is inevitable, but I don't believe in any mystical "time-frame".

No. He represents the dawning of the age of Pisces, not sunsign. Besides, dec 25 is Capricorn. Ever seen on bumper sticks, His name in a fish-shaped border?

[lordrrr]

What makes Jesus a Pisces? December 25th makes him Aquarius doesn't it? (I don't believe a bit in astrology).
I think a shift in human-kind "consciousness" is inevitable, but I don't believe in any mystical "time-frame".

Jesus wasn't born December 25.


That is the date of a pagan holiday of winter that was stolen by the Church. He was really born sometime around, I think.... March.

[Antares]

Jesus wasn't born December 25.


That is the date of a pagan holiday of winter that was stolen by the Church. He was really born sometime around, I think.... March.

Oh? So his sun sign is Pisces? I've heard that somewhere, but the notion of him being born in March was so vehemently opposed by my Christian friends that I dropped it because I figured they would know better than me. Anyway. Too many differing views...

[BlueTopaz]

Ha! You're right; Dec 25th is Capricorn. Mea Culpa there. I did know that Christmas is a co-opting of pagan festivals, as are most Christian holidays.

[pavman]

None of the Christian holidays were stolen from the Pagans. Christmas first appeared in Christianity (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) for very different reasons than merely some Pagan holiday [starts sixth paragraph down]. Likewise, Easter (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) [starts third paragraph down], and All Hallow's Eve/All Saints Day both have more plausible reasons for becoming holidays. The misguided idea that Christianity/Catholicism is Pagan is rebutted here (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), for those interested.

On 12/21/2012 our solar system will pass through the ecliptic (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). So this could be why the Mayan calendar doesn't continue past this point. I didn't read the link much, but it explains what happens astronomically, and what significance the Mayans put on it; however, it also contains some other conspiracy theorist-type junk.

The Age of Aquarias doesn't technically start until around 2600 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts._Month_of_Aquarius_.28Aquariu s-Leo.29)

The only thing that *might* happen is a pole shift (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) (which does occur, and is expected to occur in 2012). This *could* cause cataclysmic problems, but then it could just be a blip on the radar like so many other predictions. No matter how neat I think it would be to see the world plunged into darkness of a cataclysmic proportion, I seriously doubt we should be all that concerned.

Ironically, I thought about making t-shirts about 2 years ago with something like... Are you prepared for 2012? on them, but then I don't want to add to the conspiracy theorist mania.

[1OFMANY]

Technically he was born on April 6. During the lambing season, hence the shepherds seeing the angels announcing his birth :)

[BlueTopaz]

None of the Christian holidays were stolen from the Pagans. Christmas first appeared in Christianity (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) for very different reasons than merely some Pagan holiday [starts sixth paragraph down]. Likewise, Easter (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) [starts third paragraph down], and All Hallow's Eve/All Saints Day both have more plausible reasons for becoming holidays. The misguided idea that Christianity/Catholicism is Pagan is rebutted here (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), for those interested.



Okay, I would give more credence to your argument if you backed it by citing objective sources without agendas.

[pavman]

Okay, I would give more credence to your argument if you backed it by citing objective sources without agendas.

Show me objective proof that Christian holidays are derived from Pagan holidays that are not just circumstantial, then I'll do the research personally and provide you with direct sources. Besides, this thread isn't about any of this. Its about 2012...let's try to stay on topic.

[Doppelbock]

I might be able to give a different perspective. I am LDS (Mormon) and we believe that Christ came to visit the ancient inhabitants of the Americas after He was resurrected. We believe (officially or unofficially I don't know) that Quetzalcoatl was Jesus Christ. We believe that Christ will be returning soon to reign over the world for a thousand years in peace. We are warned that no one but God knows the exact time that Jesus will return so we should not speculate but we are also told that we can get a general idea by watching the signs of the times. The idea of something big happening around the end of 2012 seems to ring true, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Yeah, but with all due respect, don't you LDS guys also believe the Adena and Hopewell Indians were a lost tribe of Israel (in spite of modern DNA evidence to the contrary)?

[INTJayW]

Show me objective proof that Christian holidays are derived from Pagan holidays that are not just circumstantial, then I'll do the research personally and provide you with direct sources. Besides, this thread isn't about any of this. Its about 2012...let's try to stay on topic.

We are not responsible for your education regarding our collective religious past. There are so many sources on the net and off line it is pointless to mention any here. Just go to your local University library and ask the librarian to direct you to the Theological section and start reading textual criticisms of the bible.

Don't understand what textual critizism is Try this link. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Also there is a lot of opinion being thrown around disguised as fact. And at the risk of sounding like a dissident. Where is the proof that Jesus was actually born. Please do not quote from the bible as it has been proven by many different Theological & Textual scholars to have been based on earlier books ie Egyptian, Babylonian and other cultural writings, old testament and new ie Q Gospel, sayings Gospel etc.. not to mention the book is widely inconsistent. (Those who chose to ignore this statement please explain why the birth, Death & resurrection of Jesus differs and is in some cases contradictory in each Gospel, before you respond.) And if you manage to do that convincingly then you can explain why the Jesus story of Death and resurrection is so very similar to many other Mesopotamian god men of his day (ie Osiris, Dionysus, Adonis, Attis etc..) And why if he was real and so remarkable, is there no record of him growing up, and for that matter why has no contemporary of his time written about him. He isn't even mentioned in Josephus’s history of the Jews.

Any way, back to the topic at hand. Has any one here read any other good books regarding 2012 or any books explaining why almost all of our ancient ancestors were so fascinated with astrology and it's affects on human behavior.:huh:

[Zilal]

I read the book Apocalypse 2012, which dealt with the Mayan calendar and all kinds of glossed-over barely substantiated science in an attempt to "prove" that something drastic will happen in 2012. I was unimpressed. However, I figure that at least a little bit of what we assume to be pseudoscience will turn out to have something behind it, so I'll certainly be interested if any of it comes true.

[CardinalXiminez]

When I read this kind of topic, it gives me a blatant proof that many INTJs are not the logical, rational, factual persons they pretend they are, but rather that this is what they crave to be (at last for some).

I never imagined to see a topic about mythos, superstition and astral travel here. :stunned:

Fascinating! :rolleyes:

---

Although... I also noticed most people here say they don't believe a word of it. So I feel a bit reassured.

[INTJayW]

When I read this kind of topic, it gives me a blatant proof that many INTJs are not the logical, rational, factual persons they pretend they are, but rather that this is what they crave to be (at last for some).

I never imagined to see a topic about mythos, superstition and astral travel here. :stunned:

Fascinating! :rolleyes:


That's why your an ENFP and not an INTJ. INTJ's tend to do the research, read the books and follow up, not just talk about it and express their opinion. INTJ's want to know the truth, in whatever form it may come in, and no matter how much that truth may differ from the established beliefs.:thumbsup:

[Haphazard]

When I read this kind of topic, it gives me a blatant proof that many INTJs are not the logical, rational, factual persons they pretend they are, but rather that this is what they crave to be (at last for some).

I never imagined to see a topic about mythos, superstition and astral travel here. :stunned:

Fascinating! :rolleyes:

---

Although... I also noticed most people here say they don't believe a word of it. So I feel a bit reassured.

What you're seeing is the INTJ mind at work -- discussing mythos, superstition, and astral travel with honesty and genuine interest, with skepticism but not immediately dismissing it because of foggy credibility in this day and age.

You can't dismiss something just because it's deemed mythos. You have to look at it critically. That's what INTJs think, anyway.

[pavman]

That's why your an ENFP and not an INTJ. INTJ's tend to do the research, read the books and follow up, not just talk about it and express their opinion. INTJ's want to know the truth, in whatever form it may come in, and no matter how much that truth may differ from the established beliefs.:thumbsup:

Great to see you start out discounting established beliefs until you prove them to yourself. It must take an awful lot of time out of your schedule proving things to yourself. You sound a lot like the flat-earth society folks...like anyone ever really questioned whether the earth was round.

As I said, you provide me with concrete proof that Christianity has Pagan origins (and Judaism is not Paganism), and I'll provide you proof that Christian holidays don't come from Pagan ones. Hell, provide me proof that Christianity's origin is Pantheistic and I'll go do the legwork too.

There are so many sources on the net and off line it is pointless to mention any here. Just go to your local University library and ask the librarian to direct you to the Theological section and start reading textual criticisms of the bible.

Thing is, I don't believe the only authoritative source is the Bible. If I did, I'd probably be an atheist.

Anyway, back to 2012... so T-shirts.... good idea? bad idea? thoughts? Thinking maybe 12.21.2012 on the front, Its Coming! on the back and a website with all sorts of conspiracy theories (and more T-Shirts of course...like JFK. We know who did it, do you? :thumbsup:).

[Victor Tango]

In 2012 the Flying Spaghetti Monster will release the most sacred of objects, the Third Meatball, into the realm of humanity. This divine act will precipitate the greatest single meat-consuming frenzy in the history of the world.

Ramen

[Antares]

The Age of Aquarias doesn't technically start until around 2600

You don't know that, as I'm guessing you're no astronomer. Besides, astronomers, astrologers and new age practitioners cant even agree when the age of Aquarius starts. Some say we're already in it, and some say it'll start in 2100, and here you way it'd be 2600.

In 2012 the Flying Spaghetti Monster will release the most sacred of objects, the Third Meatball, into the realm of humanity. This divine act will precipitate the greatest single meat-consuming frenzy in the history of the world.

Ramen

FSM's got nothing on me, and I'm craving meatballs right now. Tell him to hurry up.

[Darkmist]

In 2012 the Flying Spaghetti Monster will release the most sacred of objects, the Third Meatball, into the realm of humanity. This divine act will precipitate the greatest single meat-consuming frenzy in the history of the world.

Ramen

That's it, I'm scurrying out to buy my pirate regalia right now. One requires large cutlass like knives to slice into all those delicious meatballs.

Back on topic, I have a question. The world has witnessed numerous calendar changes over the course of it's history. Did the Mayans possess a calendar and if so, how does theirs merge with other calendars? Was 2012 to the Mayans, the same as it is to us now? Or is that year a modern conversion?

[thod]

On 12/21/2012 our solar system will pass through the ecliptic.

You mean the galactic plane and not the ecliptic as defined as disk the planets rotate in. Your link is to an astrology site, hardly definitive. Doing it bit more research to creditable sites, that sun passed through the plane 3 million years ago and is currently 30 parsecs above it. It would need to switch course and travel faster than the speed of light. We can discount that theory.

[Darkmist]

Never mind, I did my research and answered my own questions. It's interesting that the word apocolypse is used in the biblical sense but that it's origins come from Greek 'uncovering', suggestive of an end of an old way and the beginning of a new one. That would certainly go more with the end of a great cycle than necessarily an end to the world as we know it, if the actual word has any bearing at all on the Mayan prophecy (?)

[BlueTopaz]

In 2012 the Flying Spaghetti Monster will release the most sacred of objects, the Third Meatball, into the realm of humanity. This divine act will precipitate the greatest single meat-consuming frenzy in the history of the world.

Ramen

Yes, when I was touched by his noodly appendage I received this self same message.

RAmen.

[gogurtdynasty]

Maybe check out introduction to Zeitgeist? I'm sure you can watch it for free on google or youtube

[pavman]

You don't know that, as I'm guessing you're no astronomer. Besides, astronomers, astrologers and new age practitioners cant even agree when the age of Aquarius starts. Some say we're already in it, and some say it'll start in 2100, and here you way it'd be 2600.

Do I have to spoon feed you?! No wonder were in such a sad state. Next time, just click on the link.
Timeframes

In 1928, at the Conference of the International Astronomical Union (IAU) in Leiden, the Netherlands, the edges of the 88 official constellations became defined in astronomical terms. The edge established between Pisces and Aquarius locates the beginning of the Aquarian Age around the year 2600.

The Austrian astronomer, Professor Herman Haupt (astronomer), examined the question of when the Age of Aquarius begins in an article published in 1992 by the Austrian Academy of Science: with the German title Der Beginn des Wassermannzeitalters, eine astronomische Frage? (The Start of the Aquarian Age, an Astronomical Question?). Based on the boundaries accepted by IAU in 1928, Haupt's article investigates the start of the Age of Aquarius by calculating the entry of the spring equinox point over the parallel cycle (d = - 4°) between the constellations Pisces and Aquarius and reaches, using the usual formula of precession (Gliese, 1982), the year 2595. However Haupt concludes:

"Though it cannot be expected that astrologers will follow the official boundaries of the constellations, there will be an attempt to calculate the entry of the spring equinox point into the constellation of Aquarius." ...

"As briefly has been shown, the results and methods of astrology in many areas, such as concerning the Aquarian age, are controversial on their own and cannot be called scientific because of the many esoteric elements."[10]

[deepFlow]

Shift in world consciousness isn't going to happen like magics. And, since way too many of us remain stubbornly unevolved, I think it's safe to say that any big shift is way more than 4 years away...

[gogurtdynasty]

The only way there is going to be any conscious shift is if people actually get off their couch and make change happen

I don't think that in 4 years our zombie like nation (or world for that matter) is going to suddenly come to a stop and say "ooooohhhhh now i truly understand why i shouldnt be using styrofoam and oh crap... i better start living!!" I hope it happens some day but i really don't think that things can change so quickly.

[INTJayW]

Your probably right 'gogurtdynasty' but the book does not say that consciousness will shift overnight, it simply states that a process that we have all become accustomed to will begin to end, and a new conscious process will begin.

Liken it to a child growing up, and going through stages. Like a women’s first period. It happens one day, and after that you never look at your body the same way again.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

How does one contact the great Flying Spaghetti Monster? Do you consume vast quantities of meatballs until the third day, whereupon, you lay down your fork, never to lift it again until sunrise of the fourth day at which time the sacred third meatball appears high in the heavens turning the sun to ashes and the day to night?

Come on......I want the noodly appendage too!

[Chainsaw Dundee]

Could be a lot of things. Some people seem to think another planet is going to cross very close to ours. Some think it has a correlation with the Illuminati and/or Reptilian aliens. Others think it might have to do with a polarity shift or some kind of foreign satellite.

It might be hype, that just be that the Mayans realized they were going to die out long before 2012 anyways, and it just so happens that is where they decided to stop. Who knows. It could destroy our entire species, evolve us into telepathic space fish, or it might just be a later version of the y2k bug.

[Vortex]

Its too bad you can't buy futures for pending apocalypses. Oh man, that would be the racket of a lifetime...

If something will happen, theres nothing we can do about it until it unfolds. The far more likley scenario is nothing happens (as is usually the case of predicted dooms-days). In either case, worrying about it wont accomplish much. I'd personally say the Mayans attributed undue holy significance to nice, round numbers, and as that day is the "big" rollover for their calender system, it must also be a "big" event.

[vkut79]

Some people just need to get real.

[Theodoric]

Highly improbable. There are several issues with the Mayan Long Count calendar.

First, the calendar places the start of the current age at 3114 BCE. However, even pre-classical Mayan civilization did not emerge until 1800 BCE, over 1300 years after the hypothetical start of the new era.

Second, the Maya never go into the first three ages. We could infer from their religion that the first three ages or worlds were subsequently destroyed by the gods and therefore no record of them could exist. However, this brings us to the third issue.

Many conspiracy theorists and new age believers such as José Argüelles state that some sort of cataclysmic event is to unfold. However, many in the archaeological community refute this as a gross fabrication. While the Mayan calendar does officially 'end' on 12 21 2012 there are still inscriptions that date nearly 3000 years into the future. This shows that while an era may end, the Maya did not believe that the world would end.

Fourth, in the current Mayan calendar there are 13 separate parts, called Baktuns. Each one is supposed to represent some sort of transition or shift. Unfortunately, historical records show no significant event has ever occurred on any of these dates.

However, this is all a great way to cash in on people's fears. Go write books on it or start manufacturing survival supplies or even make a construction business that specializes in bomb shelters. Remember Y2K?

[Antares]

I've actually heard of the 'shifting consciousness' thing, but don't understand it. If it's true, what would cause it? It sounds like Astrology to me.

[INTJayW]

Highly improbable. There are several issues with the Mayan Long Count calendar.


Very interesting thank you.

Isn't that very date in our own calandar kind of odd looking as well. -> 12 21 2012 - > the 12 + 21 = 33 odd? 1 + 2 + 2+ 1+ 2 + 0 + 1 +2 = 9 which is 3*3 or 2 3's. and 12 * 21 = 252 added together = 9 and 12 + 21 + 2012 = 2045 added together = 11

All curiously important occultic numbers? isn't that odd?

Could be nothing, but then again, who know?:thumbsup:

[Theodoric]

Very interesting thank you.

Isn't that very date in our own calandar kind of odd looking as well. -> 12 21 2012 - > the 12 + 21 = 33 odd? 1 + 2 + 2+ 1+ 2 + 0 + 1 +2 = 9 which is 3*3 or 2 3's. and 12 * 21 = 252 added together = 9 and 12 + 21 + 2012 = 2045 added together = 11

All curiously important occultic numbers? isn't that odd?

Could be nothing, but then again, who know?:thumbsup:

It does seem very coincidental. I am not very well versed in numerology, however it seems that you could come up with any number of mathematical formulas to create whatever numbers you want.

The repetitive nature of 12 21 2012 in the Gregorian calendar is rather peculiar. Then again, you could use the Jewish and Chinese calendars to get completely different results. And really, how could the ancient Mayans knew how other societies calendars would function? :huh:

Very peculiar. But like you said, who knows?

[Rohsiph]

I've been somewhat curious about the speculation--

Recently, when my thoughts have turned to considering whether or not something "important" could happen in 2012, I've been wondering if previous eras have had any significant portion of the populous acknowledging a single pointed-to date with as much peculiarity as 12 21 2012.

If the idea enters human consciousness every few eras, then I'm strongly dismissive about it--

but then, there's an attraction to following calendar systems that follow more natural cycles in the universe than does the Gregorian standard.

In any case, I don't planning on dying then, whether a meteor kills half the planet or all nations magically unify under one flag (or I run out of pop-tarts that morning and I just have to start my day hungry).

[Lucid]

In any case, I don't planning on dying then, whether a meteor kills half the planet or all nations magically unify under one flag (or I run out of pop-tarts that morning and I just have to start my day hungry).

No pop tarts??? Damn those Mayans!!! :cry:

[manger]

Man, I got that book from the library a while ago but was so busy that I never got a chance to read much of it before it was due. I've been meaning to go check it out again.

Anyway, I certainly hope there will be a shift in consciousness, because people need to wake the fuck up. I do think something significant will happen. I read on the NASA website (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) that said huge solar storms that should be going on in that year. The last time this happened there were Northern Lights displays in Mexico. But back then ('58) there wasn't much technology based on satellite communication. It's expected to knock out cell phones and the like.

Other than that I've also heard about a possible earth wobble, but it was not from a credible source. There's also that stuff about galactic alignment but I really have no idea what that's all about. It may possibly have something to do with the wobble. I believe the same source said that the tidal waves in '03 were the result of a wobble that was much smaller than the one we're expected to have in 2012.

But in terms of the human race, I don't think we can maintain our current way of life for much longer. I feel like something major will happen soon that will force us to change our habits. If the solar storms keep satellite technology out for long enough, it might make tight-knit, community based living a need rather than a passing thought for most people. But I think we'll be ready. Art and culture are evolving quite rapidly.

With the price of gas rising, a more efficient vehicle will have to be mass produced sometime within the next 20 or so years. Either that or everyone that lives in a suburb that requires a car to get anywhere will be in bad shape.

The only thing that's certain is that there will be thousands of totally awesome end of the world parties all over the place. I'm definitely looking forward to that.

[Seppuku Savant]

I think a shift in consciousness is inevitable. Do I think what your asking? No.

[Marcus]

I do my part.

[zibber]

Much love to the FSM followers for bringing some sense into this discussion!

Let me continue it: 12+21+2012=2045, which divided by 33 is approximately 62. 62-33=29, with 29 being the number of days February counts every 4 years. As was foretold by the noodly sages, on the judgement day pasta festival the Flying Spaghetti Monster will judge our pastas based on 4 basic criteria (tomato sauce, vegetables, beef and seasoning), awarding the winner the golden pasta cooker of justice and exactly 2045 years worth of farfalle. Coincidence? Oh, I doubt it.

Show me objective proof that [some] Christian holidays are derived from Pagan holidays

How about common sense? No offense.

[Deadgod]

You want to get a little real? Check out this book:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

check this out as well:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The Last Paragraph:
It may well be that the global tipping point will come already at the end of 2012, the much prophesied watershed in humanity’s tenure on the planet. It will certainly come within the lifetime of most of us. Whenever it comes, we must begin to act now, to ensure that it is not a prelude to breakdown, but a breakthrough to a more peaceful and sustainable world.

[PHS Philip]

Did I just see the particle accelerator mentioned? If it will destroy matter...why do stars exist? Stars create similar conditions all the time.

As for a "shift in consciousness," what does that even mean? That phrase raises about 5 different BS red flags in 3 words. What's a shift in consciousness? Is it a change in political systems? Increased peace? New technologies? Greater happiness? Higher quality of life? More international cooperation? After 2012, whatever happens, people will claim a shift happened because almost any positive worldwide phenomena can be called a "shift in consciousness."

Solar storms aren't expected to knock out satellites. Why? BECAUSE THEY ALREADY GET HIT WITH THIS STUFF! Solar storms just mean an increase in the nasty charged particles being shot out of the sun in a specific direction, but the storms occur in many different directions, not just in the tiny little window pointing at the space the Earth is in, so we won't get too much. We already see solar storms, just perhaps not as many or sustained in some years as others.

Nothing major is going to happen to force us to change our habits. The problems that will force that are already here, we just ignore them. Nuclear war and MAD are still very much a reality, they're just ignored. A virus or bacteria can already be designed that could wipe out huge swaths of humanity. We're already tipping the climate badly, causing droughts and the like. We're already running low on important resources. Clean water is already a problem in much of the world, it's just that it will get worse. These problems are already here. We're already being forced to change our habits or be wiped out. We're just not doing it.

[sam988]

Lol this stuff is utter garbage. Hardly worth even any consideration.

[Marcus]

Did I just see the particle accelerator mentioned? If it will destroy matter...why do stars exist? Stars create similar conditions all the time.
That's the theory. If I remember well, Edward Teller said something like that before the first nuclear test: "What if the world is made of gunpowder and we've just found the match?"

As for a "shift in consciousness," what does that even mean?
If I got it right, the most moderate claim is that we would realize not being separate individuals but one conscious entity.

After 2012, whatever happens, people will claim a shift happened because almost any positive worldwide phenomena can be called a "shift in consciousness."
A major shift was claimed.

Solar storms aren't expected to knock out satellites. Why? BECAUSE THEY ALREADY GET HIT WITH THIS STUFF!

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
In 1997, an AT&T Telestar 401 satellite used to broadcast television shows from networks to local affiliates was knocked out during a solar storm. In May 1998 a space storm disabled PanAmSat's Galaxy IV, used for automated teller machines and airline tracking services, among other things. Another storm in July 2000 put several satellites temporarily out of contact and caused navigation problems in others.

We're already tipping the climate badly, causing droughts and the like. We're already running low on important resources. Clean water is already a problem in much of the world, it's just that it will get worse. These problems are already here. We're already being forced to change our habits or be wiped out. We're just not doing it.
These things are supposed to signal an upcoming shift in consciousness.

[PHS Philip]

That's the theory. If I remember well, Edward Teller said something like that before the first nuclear test: "What if the world is made of gunpowder and we've just found the match?"

Er, no. We know that these are the conditions in star.



If I got it right, the most moderate claim is that we would realize not being separate individuals but one conscious entity.

Ah, so we're going to refute all of neuroscience in one go, eh?


A major shift was claimed.

Major is a word very susceptible to opinion.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

And yet, our satellites still worked. A few being knocked out is not the same as a crippling failure.

These things are supposed to signal an upcoming shift in consciousness.

Why, exactly? This implies that humanity is required by the universe to survive. The strong anthropic principle in the extreme. And why a shift in consciousness? Why not just increased conscientiousness? After all, saving energy is at least as effective as becoming a single meta consciousness at steering us clear of an energy crisis.

[Marcus]

Er, no. We know that these are the conditions in star.
What does knowledge means? A theory is always an extrapolation of previous experience. What if things work differently than we would expect according to our current understanding? I'm not saying that a big bang is likely to happen, just pointing out that theoretical knowledge is not absolute knowledge.

Ah, so we're going to refute all of neuroscience in one go, eh?
It's a spiritual/new age 'theory', not science. BTW, there is no valid scientific theory explaining the 'hard problems of consciousness':
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Major is a word very susceptible to opinion.
People who believe in this think that they are going to participate in the event, not just waiting for the date and explaining it afterwards.

And yet, our satellites still worked. A few being knocked out is not the same as a crippling failure.
The sun spot activity is expected to be the biggest since 1950-something when there were no satellites. I did not claim that there would be a major breakdown, just gave a counterexample to your original argument.

Why, exactly? This implies that humanity is required by the universe to survive. The strong anthropic principle in the extreme.
Yes, it's basically an anthropic/dualist/spiritual theory.

And why a shift in consciousness? Why not just increased conscientiousness? After all, saving energy is at least as effective as becoming a single meta consciousness at steering us clear of an energy crisis.
Because the basis of the whole 'theory' is spiritual.

[PHS Philip]

What does knowledge means? A theory is always an extrapolation of previous experience. What if things work differently than we would expect according to our current understanding? I'm not saying that a big bang is likely to happen, just pointing out that theoretical knowledge is not absolute knowledge.

No, this isn't just an extrapolation. This is some pretty fundamental physical laws that result in this. We can't perfectly describe the interior of a star, but we know, pretty much as certainly as one can know, that these conditions are there.


It's a spiritual/new age 'theory', not science.

"Collective consciousness" is a direct contradiction to science's current understanding, though, not outside the zone of science entirely, and thus is subject to scientific examination, or at the very least some very critical thinking, I think.

People who believe in this think that they are going to participate in the event, not just waiting for the date and explaining it afterwards.

Yes, but there have been many similar things that were rationalized post hoc. When it fails, they find a way that it "actually happened."

The sun spot activity is expected to be the biggest since 1950-something when there were no satellites. I did not claim that there would be a major breakdown, just gave a counterexample to your original argument.


And my point was just that it won't trash enough satellites to matter.

[Saint]

The last 400 ends-of-the-world-as-we-know-it didn't go as planned. Why is this prediction special?






Your probably right 'gogurtdynasty' but the book does not say that consciousness will shift overnight, it simply states that a process that we have all become accustomed to will begin to end, and a new conscious process will begin.

Kind of like how none of us had cellphones, and then gradually we all got cellphones, and now life as we know it has changed. I guess they were off by 15 years.

That kind of prediction is pathetic.

[Marcus]

No, this isn't just an extrapolation. This is some pretty fundamental physical laws that result in this.
Physical laws are extrapolations, IMHO. Take the theory of gravity. It does nor explains gravity, just gives a formula. According to the formula, gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between to objects. Recent observations about the universe contradicted this. The concept of dark matter was introduced to fix the theory. Some suggested, however, that the law of gravity might be different for big distances. Thus, our current law of gravity is an extrapolation of observations we made for short distances. I don't know the details about particle acceleration, but maybe those laws were derived from observations under different conditions than the ones in the particle accelerator.

"Collective consciousness" is a direct contradiction to science's current understanding, though, not outside the zone of science entirely, and thus is subject to scientific examination, or at the very least some very critical thinking, I think.
Yes, but science is a method, it does not mean absolute knowledge. Some new agers believe that things like quantum entanglement can explain collective consciousness. This is not science. They look for an explanation for psychic experiences and they found a tool in quantum entanglement. BTW, connecting quantum mechanics and spirituality is not new.

Yes, but there have been many similar things that were rationalized post hoc. When it fails, they find a way that it "actually happened."
Sure. BTW this seems to be more widespread than previous end of the world cults, and does not have a single center, but maybe it's because the Internet.


And my point was just that it won't trash enough satellites to matter.
Is it an impression or based on an expert view?

[PHS Philip]

Physical laws are extrapolations, IMHO. Take the theory of gravity. It does nor explains gravity, just gives a formula. According to the formula, gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between to objects. Recent observations about the universe contradicted this. The concept of dark matter was introduced to fix the theory. Some suggested, however, that the law of gravity might be different for big distances. Thus, our current law of gravity is an extrapolation of observations we made for short distances. I don't know the details about particle acceleration, but maybe those laws were derived from observations under different conditions than the ones in the particle accelerator.

Well, yeah, it's not absolute knowledge. Nothing is. But it's about as certain as anything in science.


Yes, but science is a method, it does not mean absolute knowledge. Some new agers believe that things like quantum entanglement can explain collective consciousness. This is not science. They look for an explanation for psychic experiences and they found a tool in quantum entanglement. BTW, connecting quantum mechanics and spirituality is not new.


Science is a method, but the scientific body of knowledge is the knowledge gathered with it. It's not absolute, but some parts of it are about as close to absolute knowledge as we can get.

And yeah, I know about the various attempted connections between quantum mechanics and new age stuff. But the claims made about it demonstrate a lack of understanding of what's actually been discovered. If they think that entanglement will give rise to a shared consciousness, great. But they have to go test it. And even if it did, to entangle two minds, would be an absolutely monumental task, much less 6 billlion.

Is it an impression or based on an expert view?

An impression, but formed off what people who know more about the relevant technologies than me have said.

[Marcus]

Science is a method, but the scientific body of knowledge is the knowledge gathered with it. It's not absolute, but some parts of it are about as close to absolute knowledge as we can get.
Or I could also refer to the incompatibility of the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics. If they are incompatible then they are not absolute. This can explain the anxiety of what if-s when it comes to doing something in practice that never existed before.

And yeah, I know about the various attempted connections between quantum mechanics and new age stuff. But the claims made about it demonstrate a lack of understanding of what's actually been discovered. If they think that entanglement will give rise to a shared consciousness, great. But they have to go test it.
I've seen projects (non mainstream, and the methodology is questionable) on the web trying to test it.

[PHS Philip]

Or I could also refer to the incompatibility of the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics. If they are incompatible then they are not absolute. This can explain the anxiety of what if-s when it comes to doing something in practice that never existed before.

No, both are correct, as far as observation shows, from what I remember. What's missing is a bridge. What's needed is a 3rd, linking set of ideas. Plus, quantum mechanics isn't complete yet. It's still being explored. The thing about this particle accelerator is that, although we don't know exactly what will happen, we know where it happens (as much as anything is known). The conditions inside stars are known, but the events inside them aren't. That was my point. Not that we know what will happen, just that we can rule out some things. The likelihood of anything world ending occurring is much lower than that of a meteor killing us all in the next few decades, and that's not exactly likely either, so I don't think we really have to worry.

[Marcus]

No, both are correct, as far as observation shows, from what I remember.
I was reading up on it in the meantime... it was a bad example.

The thing about this particle accelerator is that, although we don't know exactly what will happen, we know where it happens (as much as anything is known). The conditions inside stars are known, but the events inside them aren't. That was my point. Not that we know what will happen, just that we can rule out some things. The likelihood of anything world ending occurring is much lower than that of a meteor killing us all in the next few decades, and that's not exactly likely either, so I don't think we really have to worry.
This is what the experts think. BTW it's interesting that they had to perform a second study, because they did not consider a possibility in the first one.

[Mong]

I fully believed in it about 2 years ago, I knew almost everything there was to know about it. I researched all the facts day in and day out, till I eventually grew out of believing in anything and realized that this world is just an insanely boring place. I was into that whole "new age" thing, trying to find philosophical meaning but after many years of waiting and realizing that they say things like this every few years I lost all hope. I think it would be pretty cool if it happened though and I was alive at the time to witness it, I mean this time it is a lot more evidence based (by that I dont mean fact or anything, but there is a slight amount of proof behind it, obviously not enough to convince me for too long)

[einnelsate]

Time shall tell.

[Caramel]

You want to get a little real? Check out this book:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

check this out as well:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The Last Paragraph:
It may well be that the global tipping point will come already at the end of 2012, the much prophesied watershed in humanity’s tenure on the planet. It will certainly come within the lifetime of most of us. Whenever it comes, we must begin to act now, to ensure that it is not a prelude to breakdown, but a breakthrough to a more peaceful and sustainable world.


Ok, why is it that every generation somehow believes that something important is about to happen in their lifetime?

We (as a generation, as the people living on the earth today) don't have some privileged position in the course of time, we are not special, we will just add to humans progress as others have before us, nothing more or less.

[Antares]

Ok, why is it that every generation somehow believes that something important is about to happen in their lifetime?

We (as a generation, as the people living on the earth today) don't have some privileged position in the course of time, we are not special, we will just add to humans progress as others have before us, nothing more or less.

Wasn't Jesus on the verge of coming back for quite a while now? They said he'd come again in 1992. Apparently he didn't. People just like to feel special, I think. In the recent years, he's about to come back almost every year. It's sort of like trial-and-error. Every time you think: This is the one! It's not.

If it doesn’t come to pass…starting in April, then I’m nothing but a false prophet… - Ronald Weinland

Well, he's right then.

[Homini Lupus]

The world will definitely end in 31 december 9999, when 8000 years of COBOL based programs will cease to function. I read this on a book of computer architecture and it's still the most likely I've heard until now.

[Deadgod]

Ok, why is it that every generation somehow believes that something important is about to happen in their lifetime?

We (as a generation, as the people living on the earth today) don't have some privileged position in the course of time, we are not special, we will just add to humans progress as others have before us, nothing more or less.

Or lack of progress. I don't consider the expansion of industrialization and "technology" progressive.
Whether disaster is in 2012 or 9999, I know that this generation is special in that we have the power to do what's best for the next generations to come.
And also, enough of the apathy. That's just a typical INTJ characteristic which translates to, "I live in a bubble reality". It's time to get real. There are warning signs the Earth is giving us. It's time we heed those warnings and act accordingly, if we care about the survival of the human race and of our current planet. It has absolutely nothing to do with feeling special, and if you only do or say things to feel special then that says alot about you as a person.

[Beery Swine]

Oy, prepare for another pointless joke (sorry, I can't help myself). I believe that after the year 2012 people will realize what a load this 2012 nonsense was.

[Homini Lupus]

Oy, prepare for another pointless joke (sorry, I can't help myself). I believe that after the year 2012 people will realize what a load this 2012 nonsense was.

I think you're wrong. I think people will find anothar moment in time to place another apocalypse and wait for it, finding a way to explain why it has been posponed.

[Bobleplask]

Or lack of progress. I don't consider the expansion of industrialization and "technology" progressive.
Whether disaster is in 2012 or 9999, I know that this generation is special in that we have the power to do what's best for the next generations to come.
And also, enough of the apathy. That's just a typical INTJ characteristic which translates to, "I live in a bubble reality". It's time to get real. There are warning signs the Earth is giving us. It's time we heed those warnings and act accordingly, if we care about the survival of the human race and of our current planet. It has absolutely nothing to do with feeling special, and if you only do or say things to feel special then that says alot about you as a person.

I do care. But maybe not in the way you do. If I live to the day the last of us die, I will actually be quite happy. Why? Well.. first and foremost - It would more or less mean I get to see my own death. And who have not had the fantasy of walking in New York city knowing there are no other human being alive nearby?

I think we are wrong for the planet and we share it with many other living things. If we were to die, then good for every other living thing on the planet. So what am I rooting for in 2012? The same as Skeeter Davis's hit-single in 1963: The End of the World.

For humans - that is.

[Beery Swine]

I think you're wrong. I think people will find anothar moment in time to place another apocalypse and wait for it, finding a way to explain why it has been posponed.

*Sigh* I'll take the Vegas odds on you being right.:blank:

People are weird, and we're all living proof.

[jadefalcon]

Ahhh the Mayan Calendar thing =p They were great astronomers but I believe that nothing is going to happen. Coincidentally, a solar storm is supposed to hit badly around 2011 or 2012. The real "end" to the world according to the Mayan calendar doesn't happen for Eons. By then we will be sucked into a black hole. Go Yoteotl!





jadefalcon added to this post, 1 minutes and 9 seconds later...

Wasn't Jesus on the verge of coming back for quite a while now? They said he'd come again in 1992. Apparently he didn't. People just like to feel special, I think. In the recent years, he's about to come back almost every year. It's sort of like trial-and-error. Every time you think: This is the one! It's not.



Well, he's right then.

Folk that say they know when Jesus is coming back are full of it.

[Kuroyue]

I don't believe or disbelieve the change. But I think the change shall be quite pleasant (we need some more aquarious people in the world, in my opinion). However, if there is indeed a change, then it will be so subtle that we won't even realize it happened until some time after. It's more likely one of those mindset changes that happens to each generation, not some global enlightenment. But who knows? Time will tell.