INTJ dating an INFJ?

[Lynnefl]

I'm interested in a guy who I believe is an INFJ. Have any of you ever dated an INFJ? What were the challenges in that relationship? Did you find that their emotionalism drove you crazy, or did their feeling function balance you out a bit?

Also, like me, he appears to be extremely private and hard to get to know. I think he may be interested, but it's hard to tell because he's giving out mixed signals (I probably am as well). How did you deal with the challenge of being able to "read" a fellow intuitive?

[noirartist]

Introverts are extremely hard to read and usually give off mixed social signals (I do it myself :-). The best thing to do in this situation is to make a bold move. Ask him out for a cup of coffee or something simple along those lines. Any guy that is truly interested will say yes - in fact having the other person make some effort is a dream situation for the introverted male. Over a cup of coffee you can talk - get to know each other a bit - and than decided if a relationship is feasible.

[Lynnefl]

Thanks noirartist! To complicate matters, he doesn't live in the same area that I do. I will be visiting his area soon, but I was unsure about whether to email him or not. Honestly, I still haven't decided what to do. But, the insight you provided is very helpful. Thanks again!

[JTG]

If you're visiting then that's a legitimate enough reason to ask to meet up without sending up red flags of interest. Beware though - sometimes you want to let somebody know you're interested.

[Lynnefl]

If you're visiting then that's a legitimate enough reason to ask to meet up without sending up red flags of interest. Beware though - sometimes you want to let somebody know you're interested.

I probably will email him, but it's just getting over my own nervousness that's the problem. I will bite the bullet though. :thumbsup:

[BallentineChen]

Any guy that is truly interested will say yes - in fact having the other person make some effort is a dream situation for the introverted male.

I just joined the forum to point out how true this quote is.

[curiousjane]

I probably will email him, but it's just getting over my own nervousness that's the problem. I will bite the bullet though. :thumbsup:

Go for it. Bold, interested, optimistic, and (*gasp*) social INTJs are just plain hot ... let him see that you're interested enough to put out your neck, so to speak, and be vulnerable.

If he's got any knowledge of INTJs at all, he'll realize what a compliment it is that you've contacted him.

Good luck! :cheesy:

[DrEast]

I am very interested in an INFJ female. It's a fascinating process... we're almost exactly the same in every way except where we're completely opposite.

The key to dealing with an INFJ interest is above all patience. You're as hard to read to him as he is to you, because he's trying to receive on the emotional wavelength while you're transmitting in mental. It's a classic Catch-22... neither can open up to the other until the other opens up first. Worse, both people may well believe that they ARE opening up. They're just not opening the right doors, because for both people those doors are hard.

Perhaps the greatest aggravation of the INFJ love interest is that they'll tend to fall in love with the wrong people (more than just "not you" wrong), realize that they are the wrong people, have the relationship fall apart, and go into a period of untouchable mourning while they blame themselves for being not good enough for the other person. INFJs are attracted to martyrdom like a moth to a flame.

Of course, the greatest aggravation of the INTJ is that we'll jump through hoops to prevent the slightest sign of emotion from showing and then wonder why it is that no one ever seems to fall in love with us when we're so eminently acceptable specimens. At least, nobody who meets our standards.

What can I say? Open up your heart to him, which means taking OFF that armor you've been perfecting for years. It's a terrible plan, I know, but it's the only one that could possibly work. Your heart, not your head. And if he rejects you, go to plan B, where you become his best friend instead. One day he'll crush himself against an unsuitable suitor, and then you can be there for him at his darkest moment. Maybe he'll give you another shot. And if not, at least you'll have made a friend! INFJs have pretty dark moments, and they do need good friends to get through them.

For me, F's tend to balance me, but I've lived among them for years. Not sure how much that'll apply to you.

(By the way: You'll think you'll sound like an idiot or a retard when you try to open up that armor. Ignore that. It comes across as "sweet" to those F type people.)

[curiousjane]

(By the way: You'll think you'll sound like an idiot or a retard when you try to open up that armor. Ignore that. It comes across as "sweet" to those F type people.)

I second that. This is true for me. I find it very endearing to be entrusted enough to see that struggle.

[matj]

I've been very happily married for over 10 years to someone who is right on the line between INTJ & INFJ. . . but I have long suspected really belongs on the INFJ side of the line. The biggest difficulty in the beginning stages of the relationship was the INFJ's tendency to periodically shut-down completely. . . which of course does not make "sense" to an INTJ. This was frustrating in the first few years. . . but now that I can source it in their personality type, it is less so.

[Parallel]

I am very interested in an INFJ female. It's a fascinating process... we're almost exactly the same in every way except where we're completely opposite.

So true. I'm currently dating an INFJ and while in most ways we are almost exactly alike, as an INFJ he uses his "feelers" as his dominant function and of course as an INTJ I use my "thinker" as my dominant function. So in that way we are completely opposite. Sometimes I'm shocked at how mushy and loveydovey he gets:
He said this in response to something sweet I did. Direct quote from aim: ******** (8:18:45 PM): sweetie, you are sweetest sweetie that sweetied the sweet world of sweet

I just completely cracked up when I read that; I thought it was the funniest thing anyone has ever said to me! I'm sure he's shocked at how cold and analytical I can be about "love."

And it's going really well. He's completely devoted and patient enough to put up with my shitty girlfriend skills as an INTJ (problems with intimacy and opening up, showing affection, and unintentional insensitivity).

He's very open and honest with his feelings but has problems with feelings of insecurity as I think most INFJ's do. I think INFJ's find INTJ's interesting in general as he told me what attracted him to me is that he found me aesthetically attractive (of course this first since we "met" on a dating site so he first saw my picture) but also interesting in an enigmatic way. And he constantly tells me that he thinks I'm "exciting" because he can't figure me out and he loves how driven and independent and "amazing" and all that blahblah stuff.

[DrEast]

******** (8:18:45 PM): sweetie, you are sweetest sweetie that sweetied the sweet world of sweet

I just completely cracked up when I read that; I thought it was the funniest thing anyone has ever said to me! I'm sure he's shocked at how cold and analytical I can be about "love."



Well, I'm pretty sure the primary intention of that particular message would be to make you laugh. And go "aTo view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts." One out of two ain't bad.





DrEast added to this post, 3 minutes and 32 seconds later...

I've been very happily married for over 10 years to someone who is right on the line between INTJ & INFJ. . . but I have long suspected really belongs on the INFJ side of the line. The biggest difficulty in the beginning stages of the relationship was the INFJ's tendency to periodically shut-down completely. . . which of course does not make "sense" to an INTJ. This was frustrating in the first few years. . . but now that I can source it in their personality type, it is less so.

Definitely this. For some reason, despite the fact that they're F's, INFJ's will suddenly go Clam. Don't worry too much about this, just be supportive and they'll come back out again soon enough. This isn't like an INTJ Clamming, which tends to happen more because we forget the rest of the world exists for a while. It's darker than that.

[Lynnefl]

Thank you for all of your responses. Unfortunately, I think I've missed my opportunity. I was in his area a couple of weeks ago, and sent out a general email to inform him and my other friends in that city. He never responded. While at times it has taken a month for him to reply to my emails, he usually would have responded by now.

[DrEast]

Thank you for all of your responses. Unfortunately, I think I've missed my opportunity. I was in his area a couple of weeks ago, and sent out a general email to inform him and my other friends in that city. He never responded. While at times it has taken a month for him to reply to my emails, he usually would have responded by now.

Like I said, they Clam, and hard. Of course, it could be something else.

[Antares]

My best friend is INFJ and we knew each other from a very young age. She was always the cool one and stayed calm in most situations; she did what was rational and always seemed more logical than I, hardly ever showing emotions and speaks in a very even voice. Imagine my surprise when she's not INTJ; she's similar to me in every way.

[Romeo]

My son is an INFJ and so is his wife. They are so hard to read and it's exhausting for me. Sometime, I just wish they would remove the mask and be who they are. I thought I knew my son so well but after he married, he became so closed. I feel like I'm always walking on eggshells. They have advanced formal degrees (JD and PhD) but they are very low on Emotional Intelligence.

[Lynnefl]

Like I said, they Clam, and hard. Of course, it could be something else.

There could be something else. My mother, who I believe is an ISFJ, meddled. That, of course, made him uncomfortable and infuriated me. I didn't know anything had happened until she confessed six months after the fact. He seemed okay with everything at first, but it put me in an awkward position. I had to walk an extremely fine line, so I couldn't just call him up or email him at will (which, as an INTJ, I wouldn't have done anyway). I made sure that I only contacted him every three to four months...if not longer... so I wouldn't look as crazed as my mother.

In the year and a half since we first met (he lives elsewhere) I get the impression that he moved from being curious about me at first and very friendly. Then after my mother's actions he was cordial, but still friendly. After a year, he became curt, but never mean, and now he's ignoring me all together.

[DrEast]

There could be something else. My mother, who I believe is an ISFJ, meddled.

Oooh, I'm sorry. SJ's are kind of the nemesis of right-thinking NT's everywhere. Autonomy is NOT allowed. It means, in their minds, that you hate them.

Well, new data is interesting, but I'm not sure what to say to help at this point. Try sending him a direct e-mail asking him how he feels about you and him, and remember that patience is the key here. It may help clear the waters a bit.

[Lynnefl]

DrEast, don't even get me started on the battles my mother and I have had about her SJ thought processes. In her mind, because she "meant well," that should excuse her meddling. I can't tell you how many times that I've explained to her that people don't care that you "meant well." All they know is how your actions affected them. And, if you embarrassed or disrespected them, they don't give a rip about your good intentions.

Sorry, I went on a bit of a rant there.

Anyway, sending him a direct email about his feelings about me? I don't know about that one. I appreciate the suggestion, but I don't think we've had enough communication for me to ask a question like that. Our emails have been about other things, like his travels, nothing has ever been about personal things such as feelings. When I visited his city last year and emailed him, he said he was sorry that he missed my visit. This year, nada.

I've come to the conclusion that the whole situation made him uncomfortable, and I think my mother's actions tainted me by association.

[DrEast]

DrEast, don't even get me started on the battles my mother and I have had about her SJ thought processes. In her mind, because she "meant well," that should excuse her meddling. I can't tell you how many times that I've explained to her that people don't care that you "meant well." All they know is how your actions affected them. And, if you embarrassed or disrespected them, they don't give a rip about your good intentions.

Sorry, I went on a bit of a rant there.

Anyway, sending him a direct email about his feelings about me? I don't know about that one. I appreciate the suggestion, but I don't think we've had enough communication for me to ask a question like that. Our emails have been about other things, like his travels, nothing has ever been about personal things such as feelings. When I visited his city last year and emailed him, he said he was sorry that he missed my visit. This year, nada.

I've come to the conclusion that whole situation made him uncomfortable, and I think my mother's actions tainted me by association.

Entirely possible. But for future reference, when dealing with INFJ's, you have to go for feeling discussions first and foremost (I know this isn't easy). They organize their world into systems too, albeit intuitive-feeling, people oriented ones, and if you feed them a line of Thought, they're going to put you into a Thought-flavored sector and keep you there until and unless you can prove otherwise.
The worst thing and most common thing for an INTJ to do with an INFJ is see them as one would see a mirror, and impute in them all the things we find in ourselves. They act very much like us, up to and including enjoying the discussion of abstract concepts; but when you try to connect to them, you'll hit a wall if you don't recognize the deep internal difference there. Imagine inside your INFJ a deep, dark, and tragically romantic pit, and you'll start to grasp them a little better. Call that pit forward when you speak with him, and he will respond much better than you might expect; certainly, and this is important, much better than you would, reacting to the same speech.
You can't review what you're going to say and expect it to sound good with your own mind. It takes our poor, retarded, armored little INTJ hearts to be heard by an INFJ, not our brilliant minds... but on the plus side, they find this irresistible.

Edit: If this sounds both hard and deeply humiliating, remember, "Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others (usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations."

[curiousjane]

I had to walk an extremely fine line, so I couldn't just call him up or email him at will (which, as an INTJ, I wouldn't have done anyway). I made sure that I only contacted him every three to four months...if not longer... so I wouldn't look as crazed as my mother.

I know I'm not technically an INFJ, but I think I have a pretty strongly developed J side ...

If somebody only contacted me every 3-4 months I would give up on them. I know, harsh. But it would indicate to me that the person didn't care enough to be interested in talking to me. I like to talk!

Now, I'm not saying I need hourly, or even daily attention. But, if I haven't heard from a guy in 3-5 days (a week or two, MAX) after our last discussion, I start to worry that he doesn't think I'm worth it anymore. That he was just being polite. That there isn't any genuine interest. This isn't to say it is true, but that's what I worry about. I ALWAYS assume that *I* am the problem. Not him.

Sorry, I know this is irrational. I can't help it.

Hope this works out for you! I'm rooting for you two!

[Lynnefl]

curiousjane, I agree with you to a certain extent. It was frustrating to me that I ALWAYS had to initiate everything. I too wondered if he was just being polite, cordial. But, there was a definite difference in the tone of his emails after my mother contacted him. Obviously, that put him on alert of sorts, and it made me uncomfortable as well. Then, the email last year was friendly again, and I didn't know how to take that because his tone before was cordial, but curt.

I think this is a cluster of mixed signals with each of us not knowing how to react. Email is very tricky because you don't have non-verbal cues. And as much as I HATE talking on the phone, I would prefer that to a certain extent because at I would be able to pick up on the inflection of his voice.

But, to be honest, I'm at apoint where I give up. It's been nearly two years already!

[Motor Jax]

ok, so i waited until a few post by you to see where this was going, and i'm going to go through each one for you, being a (very) INFJ myself

I'm interested in a guy who I believe is an INFJ. Have any of you ever dated an INFJ? What were the challenges in that relationship? Did you find that their emotionalism drove you crazy, or did their feeling function balance you out a bit?

Also, like me, he appears to be extremely private and hard to get to know. I think he may be interested, but it's hard to tell because he's giving out mixed signals (I probably am as well). How did you deal with the challenge of being able to "read" a fellow intuitive?

at this point, i would say that he is interested, and just hasn't made a move yet. and i wouldn't have count on him making a move, but if he IS an INFJ, he would pick up any subtle moves by you if you ever decide to make any

Thanks noirartist! To complicate matters, he doesn't live in the same area that I do. I will be visiting his area soon, but I was unsure about whether to email him or not. Honestly, I still haven't decided what to do. But, the insight you provided is very helpful. Thanks again!
I probably will email him, but it's just getting over my own nervousness that's the problem. I will bite the bullet though.

just don't wait too long. if he hadn't already set his devotion on you, he would decide to move on. its all about devotion. we are devoted to loved ones

Thank you for all of your responses. Unfortunately, I think I've missed my opportunity. I was in his area a couple of weeks ago, and sent out a general email to inform him and my other friends in that city. He never responded. While at times it has taken a month for him to reply to my emails, he usually would have responded by now.

back to the devotion thing above

There could be something else. My mother, who I believe is an ISFJ, meddled. That, of course, made him uncomfortable and infuriated me. I didn't know anything had happened until she confessed six months after the fact. He seemed okay with everything at first, but it put me in an awkward position. I had to walk an extremely fine line, so I couldn't just call him up or email him at will (which, as an INTJ, I wouldn't have done anyway). I made sure that I only contacted him every three to four months...if not longer... so I wouldn't look as crazed as my mother.

In the year and a half since we first met (he lives elsewhere) I get the impression that he moved from being curious about me at first and very friendly. Then after my mother's actions he was cordial, but still friendly. After a year, he became curt, but never mean, and now he's ignoring me all together.

at this point, he most likely felt you weren't really into him as he thought you were. aside from mother, if any INFJ meets someone they really don't jive with, those feelings to the unliked person would be buried just to be close to the person they set their devotion on

DrEast, don't even get me started on the battles my mother and I have had about her SJ thought processes. In her mind, because she "meant well," that should excuse her meddling. I can't tell you how many times that I've explained to her that people don't care that you "meant well." All they know is how your actions affected them. And, if you embarrassed or disrespected them, they don't give a rip about your good intentions.

Sorry, I went on a bit of a rant there.

Anyway, sending him a direct email about his feelings about me? I don't know about that one. I appreciate the suggestion, but I don't think we've had enough communication for me to ask a question like that. Our emails have been about other things, like his travels, nothing has ever been about personal things such as feelings. When I visited his city last year and emailed him, he said he was sorry that he missed my visit. This year, nada.

I've come to the conclusion that the whole situation made him uncomfortable, and I think my mother's actions tainted me by association.

one thing that really stirs an INFJ is others' emotions and feelings. have you asked him about the way he felt? something like that would have shown how much you are really willing to help him express it

and the 'once a year thing', he probably decided its not worth the effort since there was no real foundation laid

the "guilty by association thing" isn't it. there has been people i simply could not stand, but it never interfered in the way i dealt with the loved ones who associated with them. once you started to give him the "cold shoulder" though would have told him that you were simply going to turn out that way too


i'm gonna apologize if it is a bit brute honesty, but from what you've stated, i couldn't help but evaluate the way this seemed to have happen





Motor Jax added to this post, 7 minutes and 28 seconds later...

...INFJs are attracted to martyrdom like a moth to a flame...

...INFJs have pretty dark moments, and they do need good friends to get through them...

(By the way: You'll think you'll sound like an idiot or a retard when you try to open up that armor. Ignore that. It comes across as "sweet" to those F type people.)

exactly it

totally spot on!





Motor Jax added to this post, 1 minutes and 48 seconds later...

I've been very happily married for over 10 years to someone who is right on the line between INTJ & INFJ. . . but I have long suspected really belongs on the INFJ side of the line. The biggest difficulty in the beginning stages of the relationship was the INFJ's tendency to periodically shut-down completely. . . which of course does not make "sense" to an INTJ. This was frustrating in the first few years. . . but now that I can source it in their personality type, it is less so.

and yes, we have a tendency to shut down

sometimes, it catches us blindly

and other times, we feel it coming and like i would call people and let them know that i need time alone and that i won't be available for the next week or 5 days or so





Motor Jax added to this post, 4 minutes and 55 seconds later...

He's very open and honest with his feelings but has problems with feelings of insecurity as I think most INFJ's do. I think INFJ's find INTJ's interesting in general as he told me what attracted him to me is that he found me aesthetically attractive (of course this first since we "met" on a dating site so he first saw my picture) but also interesting in an enigmatic way. And he constantly tells me that he thinks I'm "exciting" because he can't figure me out and he loves how driven and independent and "amazing" and all that blahblah stuff.

like i don't get sick, but my beloved would be coughing or something and i am just left helpless

oo, i hate that feeling

Definitely this. For some reason, despite the fact that they're F's, INFJ's will suddenly go Clam. Don't worry too much about this, just be supportive and they'll come back out again soon enough. This isn't like an INTJ Clamming, which tends to happen more because we forget the rest of the world exists for a while. It's darker than that.

it is the source of Darkness

there are times though that i love it there

[green eyes]

Our emails have been about other things, like his travels, nothing has ever been about personal things such as feelings.

E-mails can be tricky to “decode”, but from everything you’ve said…I’m getting the feeling that for whatever reason, he lost interest a while ago. As Motor Jax said, we INFJs “devote” ourselves to our romantic interests…a devoted INFJ, although an introvert, would’ve made sure the e-mails somehow expressed the different facets of his personality, in an effort to be loved for who he really is/to win your heart.
I do agree with DrEast, though…if you really are interested, you should “bite the bullet” and try to establish something before he devotes himself to someone else. Romantic pit? Totally. Be direct and call out to it! Having a serious INTJ talk “feelings” can make a xNFx absolutely melt….
Or…give up.
You two have definitely “danced” around the issue for long enough.

For some reason, despite the fact that they're F's, INFJ's will suddenly go Clam. Don't worry too much about this, just be supportive and they'll come back out again soon enough. This isn't like an INTJ Clamming, which tends to happen more because we forget the rest of the world exists for a while. It's darker than that.

I think the “clamming up” is avoidance/running away when we are emotionally overwhelmed.

INFJs are also perfectionists that have a need for control. Because we define ourselves through our deep relationships (DrEast brought this to my attention in a different thread), we have a need to control them to avoid failure. We study our loved ones intensely and often become the “perfect friend”, the “perfect mate”, or the “perfect child”. We usually don’t give up on our relationships very easily; we’ll usually bend over backwards to make sure that the other party is pleased with us (as long as they don’t try to compromise our “vision” or our values). When all of our efforts don’t make things “right”, when our sensitive feelings get hurt…we sometimes clam up. Also, we are so naturally empathetic that it can be a lot to take on other people’s emotions as well as our own, and we just need a break. We invest so much of ourselves/we are so devoted/we become so connected to people in relationships, that when this happens…our hearts, our “control centers”, can feel like they are on the brink of “exploding”. And…part of that perfectionism can be an all or nothing attitude, so when we are in an emotional state where we feel like we can’t “sufficiently” support someone else emotionally, we will sometimes avoid them completely. The clamming up/running away is basically a defense mechanism.

I’ve done this, and a couple of times it was pretty drastic. I ran away from home once (well, I was 18…but whatever), and when I was pregnant I “cut off” most of my friends and became a total hermit. My closest friend (an ENTP) sought counseling after I cut her off…many of my old friends still have not gotten over this abrupt “slamming of the door”. I thought it was because of a chemical imbalance/antepartum depression, but it really could’ve been attributed to several different things. Plenty of people tried and tried to get through to me, but the only person that I wanted any attention from was my new husband…and he was more concerned with partying with his friends than even say, I dunno, having sex with his wife. At that time, I focused a lot of my energy on how I was a “failure”.

I think I’ve gotten better at not doing this; because I am more rational, more assertive, less sensitive, and have THANKFULLY learned to control my emotions to some degree…and I’ve put up so many walls that I don’t let many people get close enough to even affect me emotionally.
Although, when my mom says the “wrong” thing to me, I still sometimes shut her out for a few days.

I'm currently dating an INFJ and while in most ways we are almost exactly alike, as an INFJ he uses his "feelers" as his dominant function and of course as an INTJ I use my "thinker" as my dominant function. So in that way we are completely opposite. Sometimes I'm shocked at how mushy and loveydovey he gets:
He said this in response to something sweet I did. Direct quote from aim: ******** (8:18:45 PM): sweetie, you are sweetest sweetie that sweetied the sweet world of sweet

LOL That is downright adorable. I’m glad things are going so well.

My son is an INFJ and so is his wife. They are so hard to read and it's exhausting for me. Sometime, I just wish they would remove the mask and be who they are. I thought I knew my son so well but after he married, he became so closed. I feel like I'm always walking on eggshells. They have advanced formal degrees (JD and PhD) but they are very low on Emotional Intelligence.

I can imagine that being married to another INFJ could be emotionally stunting.
In a marriage so much of our emotional support comes from our spouses, and if both parties think, feel, and react in almost the exact same manner, neither will learn how to really grow/change/find more efficient ways of dealing with their emotions. I hope they don’t spend their time at home together always wallowing around in their feelings. They probably “drain” each other…this could be why he seems so closed and unlike his usual self.

[DrEast]

... so when we are in an emotional state where we feel like we can’t “sufficiently” support someone else emotionally, we will sometimes avoid them completely. The clamming up/running away is basically a defense mechanism.


This is actually a behavior that INTJs mimic, to a lesser degree. When we feel like someone else is endangering our emotional autonomy, we start avoiding that person. This can happen even if said endangerment is in the form of an infatuation on that other person. We just don't DO sappy stuff, and here are all these sappy urges coming from this source. Answer? Avoid the source.

This can lead to hilarious situations in the formative high school/college years of the INTJ. Also sad ones.

We also do give the cold shoulder to people who prove themselves engrossed in spheres that hold no interest for us (my polite way of saying "useless people"). But there it's not particularly funny, since there's no attraction-repulsion dynamic. It's just what I've seen referenced in these forums as the "INTJ glacier" or the "INTJ hammer." For the INFJ, it's more of a glorious cage of self-hatred and void that they just don't want to leave.

Edit: After exhaustive research, I must add that grabbing and shaking the INFJ is not a productive measure for restoring stability. Also, getting slapped hurts. That is all.

[azelismia]

Lynn, it's been two years. you have nothing to lose. talk to him. just tell him flat out how you feel. lay it on the line. not easy no, but honesty is liberating ( at least I've always found it so, I could never be a nudist literally but this is my version of it)

[DrEast]

Whoops, made a mis-post here.

[Romeo]

I can imagine that being married to another INFJ could be emotionally stunting. In a marriage so much of our emotional support comes from our spouses, and if both parties think, feel, and react in almost the exact same manner, neither will learn how to really grow/change/find more efficient ways of dealing with their emotions. I hope they don’t spend their time at home together always wallowing around in their feelings. They probably “drain” each other…this could be why he seems so closed and unlike his usual self.
My son has pulled away from me for nine weeks now and I'm an INTJ who celebrates independence and never puts any demands on him or the marriage. They live in the south and I live in the north of the USA. I do, however, like to hear from him at least once every two weeks, if possible. Last night I sent him an email with a subject line that read, "I love you" and nothing written in the body of the email. I figured he would see the message even if he deleted the body of it. Well, it worked. I received this response, "I know you do. I love you too. I just need some space right now. Thank you for respecting that". I think based on issues that happened earlier this year that he is having marital problems. He had mentioned to me several months ago that they are co-dependent and they feed into each other. Based on what I've been reading on this thread, I think it must be really difficult to have an INFJ-INFJ marriage.

I happen to have a INTJ-INTJ relationship and it's magical. I wondered why?

[Troux]

I wonder how much of a difference exists in these relationships with the genders being switched... Looking for advice.

[Indubitably]

My best friend is INFJ and we knew each other from a very young age. She was always the cool one and stayed calm in most situations; she did what was rational and always seemed more logical than I, hardly ever showing emotions and speaks in a very even voice. Imagine my surprise when she's not INTJ; she's similar to me in every way.

Are you SURE your friend is an INFJ? I mean, its not impossible, but INFJ is the infamous "Conspiracy Theorist" type. Every INFJ I've met was prone to nonsensical rants that they would preach to anyone and everyone that would listen. The INFJs that I know are anything but cool calm and collected, they are VERY passionate about their theories, and most seem to consider detached rational logic the bane of their existence. I'd go so far as to say that an INTJ and INFJ could probably only be in the same room without ripping each other's throats out so long as the INFJ doesn't speak. The majority of my friends and girlfriends have been INTJ, so I have actually been around to witness this on occasion, and trust me it is not pretty. The most sadistic I have ever seen an INTJ get is when one of my INTJ friends gleefully crushed the ego of an INFJ guy that was hitting on her by debunking the most sacredly held of his crackpot theories. By the end of the argument the INFJ had turned bright red, was literally screaming insults at her, and had begun to wave his hands around like a mad man. I seriously had to physically remove my friend from the room before he hit her. Not so much because my friend isn't tough enough to take care of herself, but because she would have definitely pressed charges, and we had mutual acquaintances that would have turned on my INTJ friend like a pack of wolves if she had been "responsible" for this guy going to jail.

In my experience INTJs invariably bring out the worst in INFJs, and INFJs wind up being something for INTJs to sharpen their fangs on.

[aok]

I had a relationship w/ an INFJ. It was very intense and passionate....but it was also a bit of a roller coaster ride. This particular person (not that all INFJ's are) was very dramatic...which I found emotionally overwhelming. But, I connected w/ her in ways I haven't in any other relationship.

[AliTree]

my boyfriend is half I, half T.
we have run into quite a few issues where his feelings have gotten hurt because of what i have said/done, but i am able to read him extremely well and know when something is wrong and ask him. so we handle the problem almost immediately after it happens.
because we handle stuff so quickly, i think our relationship has lasted so long because of it.

you also have to remember how similar they are to us and that they are extremely analytical too. they will reply what you said/did to them over and over and make it a lot worse if you don't fix it ASAP. but, also because they are the "consoler" they will listen to your defense and not question it, like most INTJs would. so that helps a lot.

just be prepared to open up your emotions a lot more then you probably do and explaining your thought process a lot more then you probably ever have. you guys will benefit A LOT if you open up your mind to them.

[Eric86]

Are you SURE your friend is an INFJ? I mean, its not impossible, but INFJ is the infamous "Conspiracy Theorist" type. Every INFJ I've met was prone to nonsensical rants that they would preach to anyone and everyone that would listen. The INFJs that I know are anything but cool calm and collected, they are VERY passionate about their theories, and most seem to consider detached rational logic the bane of their existence. I'd go so far as to say that an INTJ and INFJ could probably only be in the same room without ripping each other's throats out so long as the INFJ doesn't speak. The majority of my friends and girlfriends have been INTJ, so I have actually been around to witness this on occasion, and trust me it is not pretty. The most sadistic I have ever seen an INTJ get is when one of my INTJ friends gleefully crushed the ego of an INFJ guy that was hitting on her by debunking the most sacredly held of his crackpot theories. By the end of the argument the INFJ had turned bright red, was literally screaming insults at her, and had begun to wave his hands around like a mad man. I seriously had to physically remove my friend from the room before he hit her. Not so much because my friend isn't tough enough to take care of herself, but because she would have definitely pressed charges, and we had mutual acquaintances that would have turned on my INTJ friend like a pack of wolves if she had been "responsible" for this guy going to jail.

In my experience INTJs invariably bring out the worst in INFJs, and INFJs wind up being something for INTJs to sharpen their fangs on.
That doesn't sound anything like me at all. I think this is more of an issue of maturity and self-control than anything, really. I've been friends with some INTJs, and have come across plenty of others (due to my interests), and I get along with them perfectly, but then again, I get along with everyone perfectly, regardless of their personality.

[Sequoia]

Are you SURE your friend is an INFJ? I mean, its not impossible, but INFJ is the infamous "Conspiracy Theorist" type. Every INFJ I've met was prone to nonsensical rants that they would preach to anyone and everyone that would listen. The INFJs that I know are anything but cool calm and collected, they are VERY passionate about their theories, and most seem to consider detached rational logic the bane of their existence. I'd go so far as to say that an INTJ and INFJ could probably only be in the same room without ripping each other's throats out so long as the INFJ doesn't speak. The majority of my friends and girlfriends have been INTJ, so I have actually been around to witness this on occasion, and trust me it is not pretty. The most sadistic I have ever seen an INTJ get is when one of my INTJ friends gleefully crushed the ego of an INFJ guy that was hitting on her by debunking the most sacredly held of his crackpot theories. By the end of the argument the INFJ had turned bright red, was literally screaming insults at her, and had begun to wave his hands around like a mad man. I seriously had to physically remove my friend from the room before he hit her. Not so much because my friend isn't tough enough to take care of herself, but because she would have definitely pressed charges, and we had mutual acquaintances that would have turned on my INTJ friend like a pack of wolves if she had been "responsible" for this guy going to jail.

In my experience INTJs invariably bring out the worst in INFJs, and INFJs wind up being something for INTJs to sharpen their fangs on.

So, you are basing your knowledge of how all INFJ's are on the basis of this one person, or the experience of just a couple? Talk about sweeping and illogical!

People are individuals, regardless of personality type. True, many INFJ's tend to withdraw and shut down from time to time and we do tend to be passionate.

I for one do not shut down. I am not prone to conspiracy theories nor hysterics. Just because I deal with things from a feeling perspective doesn't mean I don't also have a cutting intellect. I do and I use it well.

I get along well with all N types; my spouse and my closest friends fall into all of them; some of them are even other INFJ's.

The only assumption you can safely make when befriending or dating an INFJ is that we will be an original thinker; and that empathic intuitive ability will be on par with thinking logical ability. Everything else is a variable.

[karenk]

Are you SURE your friend is an INFJ? I mean, its not impossible, but INFJ is the infamous "Conspiracy Theorist" type. Every INFJ I've met was prone to nonsensical rants that they would preach to anyone and everyone that would listen. The INFJs that I know are anything but cool calm and collected, they are VERY passionate about their theories, and most seem to consider detached rational logic the bane of their existence. I'd go so far as to say that an INTJ and INFJ could probably only be in the same room without ripping each other's throats out so long as the INFJ doesn't speak. The majority of my friends and girlfriends have been INTJ, so I have actually been around to witness this on occasion, and trust me it is not pretty. The most sadistic I have ever seen an INTJ get is when one of my INTJ friends gleefully crushed the ego of an INFJ guy that was hitting on her by debunking the most sacredly held of his crackpot theories. By the end of the argument the INFJ had turned bright red, was literally screaming insults at her, and had begun to wave his hands around like a mad man. I seriously had to physically remove my friend from the room before he hit her. Not so much because my friend isn't tough enough to take care of herself, but because she would have definitely pressed charges, and we had mutual acquaintances that would have turned on my INTJ friend like a pack of wolves if she had been "responsible" for this guy going to jail.

In my experience INTJs invariably bring out the worst in INFJs, and INFJs wind up being something for INTJs to sharpen their fangs on.


It sounds like the "INFJs" you know aren't INFJs.

[Sitara]

In my experience INFJs get along pretty well with INTJs. INFJs are more emotional, more idealistic, less logical, but overall they are similiar to us. I find them kind of cute. I don't think I would want to be partnered to one romantically.

[Thrifty]

"Conspiracy Theorist" type of INFJ are usually other types that are in bad shape (ie. Unhealthy). They are usually counter-phobic Ennegram 6 types. Like that guy that Mel Gibson plays in that movie.

'True' INFJs are usually Ennegrams 4's (4w5 mostly-- some 5w4), which gives "The Darkness Inside" trait that is the basis for their personalities. INFJs are very difficult to comprehend, usually they don't even comprehend themselves(they can however comprehend other INFJs). It is the type I have most problems figuring out.

I tend to avoid INFJs, particularly a special breed that have like an "aura" of "emotional brooding". As if they are about to explode at any minute, but they manage to keep themselves at bay, barely. Some can become stalkers too, as they are obsessive of they love interests and can make them the focus of their lives. Others are insanely vindictive of the "what comes around, goes around" type. Some let themselves be betrayed (or place themselves in positions where it is likely to happen) so that they can get even with the person later, they derive pleasure from it. Those ones have a sado-masochistic streak.

[Sequoia]

"Conspiracy Theorist" type of INFJ are usually other types that are in bad shape (ie. Unhealthy). They are usually counter-phobic Ennegram 6 types. Like that guy that Mel Gibson plays in that movie.

'True' INFJs are usually Ennegrams 4's (4w5 mostly-- some 5w4), which gives "The Darkness Inside" trait that is the basis for their personalities. INFJs are very difficult to comprehend, usually they don't even comprehend themselves(they can however comprehend other INFJs). It is the type I have most problems figuring out.

I tend to avoid INFJs, particularly a special breed that have like an "aura" of "emotional brooding". As if they are about to explode at any minute, but they manage to keep themselves at bay, barely. Some can become stalkers too, as they are obsessive of they love interests and can make them the focus of their lives. Others are insanely vindictive of the "what comes around, goes around" type. Some let themselves be betrayed (or place themselves in positions where it is likely to happen) so that they can get even with the person later, they derive pleasure from it. Those ones have a sado-masochistic streak.

Like others, you tend to paint all people with the same personality type with the same narrow brush of your limited experiences with less than a few. "True" INFJ's are not just of any Ennegrams; we have the same wide variety as people of other personality types. But considering what a poor opinion and strong bias against INFJ's you have, perhaps it would be best to avoid our type.

[Eric86]

Yeah....I'm a very strong 9w1, with 2 not far behind that.

Let's please try to play nice, ok?:undecided:

[Thrifty]

Now that I think of it that might have come off a little bit blunt. That wasn't my intention. Sorry if I offended anybody, I meant no harm. I just thought that that information would probably prove valuable to some INTJs pursuing a relationship with an INFJ, and vice versa.

[Eric86]

Yeah, it's alright. I just don't get that whole 'darkness inside' thing, cause I consider myself a very bright person, as does everyone who's met me or talked to me at all.

[aok]

Why don't you INFJs give your analysis on INTJs?

[Thrifty]

Why don't you INFJs give your analysis on INTJs?

Nice try. INFJs are too nice to do that.

[Indubitably]

So, you are basing your knowledge of how all INFJ's are on the basis of this one person, or the experience of just a couple? Talk about sweeping and illogical!

People are individuals, regardless of personality type. True, many INFJ's tend to withdraw and shut down from time to time and we do tend to be passionate.

I for one do not shut down. I am not prone to conspiracy theories nor hysterics. Just because I deal with things from a feeling perspective doesn't mean I don't also have a cutting intellect. I do and I use it well.

I get along well with all N types; my spouse and my closest friends fall into all of them; some of them are even other INFJ's.

The only assumption you can safely make when befriending or dating an INFJ is that we will be an original thinker; and that empathic intuitive ability will be on par with thinking logical ability. Everything else is a variable.

Im not quite sure how you intend to avoid sweeping generalities in a sociology forum, but if you do come up with a few solid strategies please feel free to let me know, it would certainly be nice to have a couple in my bag of tricks.

I know that in principal stereo types are wrong, but you have to realize that you can't build a very steady argument based on the premise that they should be avoided entirely, simply because the human mind as we know it fails to exist in their absence. I strongly suggest that you simply offer a more accurate stereo type and point out the ways in which the one I have displayed is inconsistent and or highly dependent on a narrow range of circumstances. That way we may at least both learn from the other individual's experiences.

At any rate, this is not something I would say based on one or two experiences (one of my brothers is an INFJ, and it took more than a few conflicts before I caught on that I probably shouldn't bring my INTJ friends around to often), I have quite simply noticed more animosity between INTJs and INFJs than any other two personality types (barring perhaps ENTP and ISTJ). Granted, this may be the very reason why I have associated INTJ and INFJ interactions with animosity. After all, harmonious relationships are not nearly as visible as those prone to conflict. Not to mention that conflict is not necessarily an entirely negative process. This does however bring me back to the point of my previous post; that in my experience INTJs and INFJs tend to bring out the worst in each other.

Obviously INFJs aren't exactly at their best if they are ranting like mad men, nor are INTJs at their best when they are savagely attacking someone's credibility and deeply held values rather than simply making an argument against their position. Yet I have seen this dynamic present itself repeatedly with different individuals under different circumstances and in what I would say is a relatively wide range of environments. This doesn't mean that I am saying INFJs are all lunatics, or that one can never get along with an INTJ, it just means that if my experience is any indication, getting along with one will be an up hill battle.





Indubitably added to this post, 32 minutes and 16 seconds later...

It sounds like the "INFJs" you know aren't INFJs.

That is always a possibility. I don't believe it is the case, so much as it is likely that INFJs simply aren't "themselves" when under the extreme duress that INTJs seem to be capable of subjecting them to. My analytical skills are however, by no means beyond reproach.

[Sequoia]

Im not quite sure how you intend to avoid sweeping generalities in a sociology forum, but if you do come up with a few solid strategies please feel free to let me know, it would certainly be nice to have a couple in my bag of tricks.

I know that in principal stereo types are wrong, but you have to realize that you can't build a very steady argument based on the premise that they should be avoided entirely, simply because the human mind as we know it fails to exist in their absence. I strongly suggest that you simply offer a more accurate stereo type and point out the ways in which the one I have displayed is inconsistent and or highly dependent on a narrow range of circumstances. That way we may at least both learn from the other individual's experiences.

At any rate, this is not something I would say based on one or two experiences (one of my brothers is an INFJ, and it took more than a few conflicts before I caught on that I probably shouldn't bring my INTJ friends around to often), I have quite simply noticed more animosity between INTJs and INFJs than any other two personality types (barring perhaps ENTP and ISTJ). Granted, this may be the very reason why I have associated INTJ and INFJ interactions with animosity. After all, harmonious relationships are not nearly as visible as those prone to conflict. Not to mention that conflict is not necessarily an entirely negative process. This does however bring me back to the point of my previous post; that in my experience INTJs and INFJs tend to bring out the worst in each other.

Obviously INFJs aren't exactly at their best if they are ranting like mad men, nor are INTJs at their best when they are savagely attacking someone's credibility and deeply held values rather than simply making an argument against their position. Yet I have seen this dynamic present itself repeatedly with different individuals under different circumstances and in what I would say is a relatively wide range of environments. This doesn't mean that I am saying INFJs are all lunatics, or that one can never get along with an INTJ, it just means that if my experience is any indication, getting along with one will be an up hill battle.





Indubitably added to this post, 32 minutes and 16 seconds later...



That is always a possibility. I don't believe it is the case, so much as it is likely that INFJs simply aren't "themselves" when under the extreme duress that INTJs seem to be capable of subjecting them to. My analytical skills are however, by no means beyond reproach.


As an INFJ, I cannot tell you about the personal experience of an INTJ with an INFJ. I can tell of the reverse however. My husband is INT, as are several of my friends. We all get along just fine and enjoy each other's company. My marraige is not in trouble and has been going on for the last 28 years. Each INTJ I know is quite different from the others. Just as each INFJ and INFP I know is. You are asking for stereotypes and generalities. Well, sorry, but I have none to give. I percieve each person as the unique individual that he or she is.

In any case, my experience is that INFJ's and INTJ's do not normally bring out the worse in each other, unless you mean a wickedly bad sense of humor.

[Indubitably]

As an INFJ, I cannot tell you about the personal experience of an INTJ with an INFJ. I can tell of the reverse however. My husband is INT, as are several of my friends. We all get along just fine and enjoy each other's company. My marraige is not in trouble and has been going on for the last 28 years. Each INTJ I know is quite different from the others. Just as each INFJ and INFP I know is. You are asking for stereotypes and generalities. Well, sorry, but I have none to give. I percieve each person as the unique individual that he or she is.

In any case, my experience is that INFJ's and INTJ's do not normally bring out the worse in each other, unless you mean a wickedly bad sense of humor.

*shrugs* Well, your response effectively does little more than to beg the question of whether or not there is any similarity between people what so ever, which is an entirely different argument, and it is certainly your prerogative to initiate a discussion about it if you'd like. I for one however, would find it a fruitless argument to participate in. As for the subject at hand, if you have nothing more to offer than to mention that you haven't had similar experiences, I am afraid we are at an impasse.

I will note however that I did not sugest that the INFJs I have encountered have had problems with all INTX types, I said specifically that they seemed to have problems with INTJs. One letter does make a pretty significant difference.

[Eric86]

Definitely this. For some reason, despite the fact that they're F's, INFJ's will suddenly go Clam. Don't worry too much about this, just be supportive and they'll come back out again soon enough. This isn't like an INTJ Clamming, which tends to happen more because we forget the rest of the world exists for a while. It's darker than that.
I've been in clam mode for the past few weeks, and it's only been getting worse. I hate it, but it's not something I can really control.:(

I don't know why I didn't read the earlier posts in this thread before, but they're totally true about me, except for the cutting off friends thing...first of all because I don't really have friends to cut off in the first place, but even though I wouldn't cut them off anyways, they always either cut me off or drift away/disappear on their own, so the end result is the same, except it leaves me feeling even worse than if I were to do it myself. I currently only have a couple good friends, but I don't feel at all like I can fully open myself up with them, or anyone else I know (including my family...none of them understand me). It really sucks because this is something I need to be able to do, otherwise my emotional health, and consequently most everything else in my life, goes down the drain.:embarassed: Plus, being clinically depressed makes it even worse....

I would just love it if things would change someday....I'm having an awfully hard time dealing with it all, especially lately.:(

[ricearoni]

Nice try. INFJs are too nice to do that.

Analysis doesn't always have to equal criticism and um...a bitter INFJ can be pretty vicious.

This doesn't mean that I am saying INFJs are all lunatics, or that one can never get along with an INTJ, it just means that if my experience is any indication, getting along with one will be an up hill battle.

I have a feeling that the uphill battle is part of the appeal. There's a sticky on this forum that seems to show that quite a few INTJs don't mind us INFJs so much.

I almost wonder what would've happened if your female INTJ friend hadn't essentially emasculated your male INFJ friend, what would've happened between them? Also, why did she feel the need to go that far to humiliate him? Especially since he was already putting himself at her mercy by hitting on her. I've read a thread somewhere where female INTJs mentioned that they would sabotage potential relationships because of various things (fear of intimacy, doubt, confusion)...could that have been an example of such a thing?

In my experience with my INTJ friend, he never really came across as a douche bag until I got too close to him. I could tell him something stupid and he'd explain why it was stupid (no sugarcoating) and I'd have to admit...yeah it was stupid. But whenever I got too close to him...ugh. What a pain in the butt. If there is one thing that annoys me about INTJs...it's that they protect their feelings with thick walls wrapped over and over with barbed wire then scatter the surrounding area with land mines. It truly takes a strong person to be involved with them romantically.

But when they consider you a friend, it's almost like an honor. When they decide to care about a person...it's not a superficial type of caring.

[DrEast]

I don't know why I didn't read the earlier posts in this thread before, but they're totally true about me, except for the cutting off friends thing...first of all because I don't really have friends to cut off in the first place, but even though I wouldn't cut them off anyways, they always either cut me off or drift away/disappear on their own,

...

Y'know, one of the best definitions of "F" vs. "T" I've ever come across defines F as preferring the subjective view point in problem solving and T's preferring the objective.

This, I think, is a classic example. Eric, you may well feel your friends have abandoned you, and you may well be right. I have no knowledge of the situation beyond your own MBTI personality type, but I'd be willing to bet cash money that they see it as just the opposite: for some unknowable reason, you're the one who's become distant and unreachable.

So here's something I'd like you to try. Take a deep breath, clear your mind for a moment, and then call up some of your friends. Start with the ones you consider closest and move outwards. Just talk to them a bit. Embrace your poor, underutilized S and pretend you love small talk for the sake of small talk.

The problem with INFJ isolation is that it can be self-reinforcing. Now, this probably won't cure your depression per se, but it may well change your perceptions about how OTHER people see you during these times of isolation.

[Eric86]

I don't have any of their numbers, except for my one good friend that I've had since fourth grade (but I know he wouldn't understand the stuff I'm going through anyways...I know him well enough to know that he's not the kind of person who would). I've tried contacting several of them (especially the ones who left me) through Myspace/Facebook/email/etc., but they never get back to me, and make no effort to contact me themselves either (regardless of how close we were back then), even though I'm easy to find if they ever actually wanted to.

People just tend to not want to get involved with me any more than they absolutely have to, and I don't understand why....:(

[DrEast]

I don't have any of their numbers, except for my one good friend that I've had since fourth grade (but I know he wouldn't understand the stuff I'm going through anyways...I know him well enough to know that he's not the kind of person who would). I've tried contacting several of them (especially the ones who left me) through Myspace/Facebook/email/etc., but they never get back to me, and make no effort to contact me themselves either (regardless of how close we were back then), even though I'm easy to find if they ever actually wanted to.

People just tend to not want to get involved with me any more than they absolutely have to, and I don't understand why....:(

Well, if you've recently moved to a new location (such as a college), that's a time of transition where many people will dissolve older relationships simply as a matter of course, to clear the way for new ones. If that's the case, I'm sorry you're feeling lonely, and I recommend you start making new friends yourself. INFJ's tend to be good at that in any event. Very few people will find an INFJ unlovable, not that the INFJ will necessarily ever realize that.

[mayumi]

I almost wonder what would've happened if your female INTJ friend hadn't essentially emasculated your male INFJ friend, what would've happened between them? Also, why did she feel the need to go that far to humiliate him? Especially since he was already putting himself at her mercy by hitting on her.
...
But when they consider you a friend, it's almost like an honor. When they decide to care about a person...it's not a superficial type of caring.

I relate to the point of Indubitably. I know this INFJ (and I'm very sure he's INFJ, ranting romantic), we went to school together...he has a crush on me. But I have NEVER EVER met anybody who gets under my skin like he does. Except for my mother. At one point I think, I was screaming 'I DONT LIKE YOU! I DONT LIKE YOU!' at him in front of mutual friends, in a restaurant. Then I threatened to kick him. I'm currently considering spreading a rumor he's gay. haha. INFJ is too easy to emasculate.

I think INFJ men just come off as a bit too forward...I just feel like he didn't respect my privacy and modesty. (He didn't physically assault me anything like that). He's actually very good looking and smart and Im attracted to him. And I would like him if only he didn't speak. A mute INFJ would be nice ;). Haha.

I once dated an INFP and they're so much better. This INFP waited for months and months until I was ready to admit that I liked him. He was very careful with my pride... an INFJ would presume so much (even if they're right, don't point it out to me.)

However, when I meet my INFJ nemesis again, I think I'll try offering him my friendship. When I move back to our hometown, we'll be seeing a lot more of each other. Professionally and socially.

[Eric86]

Well, if you've recently moved to a new location (such as a college), that's a time of transition where many people will dissolve older relationships simply as a matter of course, to clear the way for new ones. If that's the case, I'm sorry you're feeling lonely, and I recommend you start making new friends yourself. INFJ's tend to be good at that in any event. Very few people will find an INFJ unlovable, not that the INFJ will necessarily ever realize that.
No, that's long since done with (I only went to college for a year anyways, back in 2004, but I flunked out.).

I've always been terrible at making new friends. I try to be friendly, warm, open, and make myself available, and they act all nice and cordial to me (generally when other people are around), but they just don't ever want to get involved with me. Even when I ask just to hang out or whatever, there's always some excuse to say no (even when I know for a fact that they are not terribly busy and regularly make time for people other than me). And whenever I attempt to be good friends with a girl, and ask one to hang out or do something fun (or anything, for that matter) in a casual setting (even in a group of other people)....well, I never know what stupid thing they'll do to mess it all up and hurt me in the process, all while making it out like I'm the one doing something wrong. Happens every time.

[ricearoni]

I think INFJ men just come off as a bit too forward...I just feel like he didn't respect my privacy and modesty. (He didn't physically assault me anything like that). He's actually very good looking and smart and Im attracted to him. And I would like him if only he didn't speak. A mute INFJ would be nice ;). Haha.

Ah. I see what you mean about respecting your privacy and modesty. I don't like it when people expose my inner thoughts to others or even assume that they know what I'm thinking. Though...I am guilty of picking apart others brains. :embarassed: Usually, I'm pretty good at knowing when to stop.

Is it possible that your INFJ friend's forwardness is a result of overcompensating? I've read that there can be a conflict between being masculine and being an INFJ. He probably thinks he should pursue you aggressively because that's what a guy is expected to do, but that's exactly what he shouldn't be doing.

I once dated an INFP and they're so much better. This INFP waited for months and months until I was ready to admit that I liked him. He was very careful with my pride... an INFJ would presume so much (even if they're right, don't point it out to me.)

I've learned that's a good way to avoid conflict with an INTJ. Either drop it or present the idea in a way in which they can disappear for a bit and then pretend it was their own idea all along. Which reminds me of something...

God forbid that you disagree with an INTJ about something they passionately believe is true. They have a knack for pulling out all kinds of B.S to prove that they're right and they say it with such conviction, you'll start to believe them. I've had a couple of conversations with my friend that days later I realized...didn't make any sense at all.

[Indubitably]

Analysis doesn't always have to equal criticism and um...a bitter INFJ can be pretty vicious.



I have a feeling that the uphill battle is part of the appeal. There's a sticky on this forum that seems to show that quite a few INTJs don't mind us INFJs so much.

I almost wonder what would've happened if your female INTJ friend hadn't essentially emasculated your male INFJ friend, what would've happened between them? Also, why did she feel the need to go that far to humiliate him? Especially since he was already putting himself at her mercy by hitting on her. I've read a thread somewhere where female INTJs mentioned that they would sabotage potential relationships because of various things (fear of intimacy, doubt, confusion)...could that have been an example of such a thing?

In my experience with my INTJ friend, he never really came across as a douche bag until I got too close to him. I could tell him something stupid and he'd explain why it was stupid (no sugarcoating) and I'd have to admit...yeah it was stupid. But whenever I got too close to him...ugh. What a pain in the butt. If there is one thing that annoys me about INTJs...it's that they protect their feelings with thick walls wrapped over and over with barbed wire then scatter the surrounding area with land mines. It truly takes a strong person to be involved with them romantically.

But when they consider you a friend, it's almost like an honor. When they decide to care about a person...it's not a superficial type of caring.

My best guess is that there is something going on there between the INTJ's Te and the INFJs Ti. From what I can tell the INTJ seems to simply get underneath the INFJ's skin very easily. It may just be that the Te wont let INTJs leave something lacking logic well enough alone, and the INFJs comparatively under developed Ti leaves them vulnerable if their Fe fails them. Both have a dominant Ni, so it wouldn't surprise me if either could push the others buttons.

Why my friend felt compelled to exploit what ever weakness she sensed in him in that particular instance, I'm not completely sure. She is by most accounts a genius, but extremely self critical, and very selective about whom she chooses to associate with, especially if she doesn't feel like they measure up intellectually. Perhaps what similarities may have existed been between the two caused her to recognize an inadequate self image reflected in him. I should probably also note that virtually all of the situations that I am thinking of involved INTJs and INFJs of a similar age. Perhaps if the INFJ is more mature than the INTJ in question, this is not an issue.

The fact that my friend pretty much has no interest in men on a physical level complicates things a bit too. It may simply have been that she was completely fed up by this point and this guy just happened to be the unlucky millionth male shopper to hit on her. I don't know what she would do if the INFJ in question was an attractive female. She might have been interested, but she could just as easily have been that much more critical. Either way, she really didn't need to go for this guy's throat the way she did. Granted, the guy was being a bit of an ass, babbling on about how George Bush had planted demolition explosives in the twin towers and staged 911, but my friend is definitely no fan of Bush. It could have simply been that she felt his unfounded anti Bush theory undermined the integrity of her meticulously logical criticisms of Bush.

[Eric86]

My best guess is that there is something going on there between the INTJ's Te and the INFJs Ti. From what I can tell the INTJ seems to simply get underneath the INFJ's skin very easily. It may just be that the Te wont let INTJs leave something lacking logic well enough alone, and the INFJs comparatively under developed Ti leaves them vulnerable if their Fe fails them. Both have a dominant Ni, so it wouldn't surprise me if either could push the others buttons.
lol, according to this test (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) I took before (the results of which I definitely think reflect me personally), I don't use much Ti or Te.:thinking:

Type Dynamics Results

Fi - 24
Ni - 24
Fe - 22
Si - 19
Ne - 16
Ti - 13
Se - 11
Te - 11

yay feelings!;D (pretty messed up order, isn't it? lol)

And yet I still get along with you guys!:p Even compared to other INFJs, I'm quite squishy.;D

[mayumi]

Is it possible that your INFJ friend's forwardness is a result of overcompensating? I've read that there can be a conflict between being masculine and being an INFJ. He probably thinks he should pursue you aggressively because that's what a guy is expected to do, but that's exactly what he shouldn't be doing.



Very possible. My INFP friend who I've consulted dismisses him as Gay. Right now he's cultivating an image of a photographer/explorer, "man of the mountains"...which is ridiculous, but gaggles of younger girls seem to love it.

Last time I saw him he publicly asked me:

"Does your bestfriend have a crush on me?"

"Are you infatuated with me?"

idiot.

For his sake, I hope the overcompensating will end soon. I don't think a INTJ-INFJ relationship is worth pursuing at the moment. It's too much work.

[Indubitably]

Well that is kind of the point. Most INTJs have a rather well developed Te, while INFJs have a tertiary Ti that kind of hangs out on the end there to make some logical sense of their thoughts. I think Ti can also bring into play a powerful sense of self doubt that demands that you get to the bottom of things though. Im just guessing here, but assuming that the INFJ's rather well developed Fe for some reason fails to defend the veracity of their value system, the relatively under developed Ti would be left out in the open to reason its way through the situation. If the ruthlessly efficient logic of a strong Te backed up by Ni inside information was brought to bare against someone forced to depend on a relatively vulnerable Ti, it could very well be a rather emasculation experience.

Of course, this is assuming that someone is very "typically" INFJ, you for instance do not appear to be typically INFJ. For that matter, most of the people that I am relatively certain are INFJs (because they actually took the test instead of me just pegging them as INFJ) have told me that they didn't feel that the descriptions of an INFJ really fit their personality all that well. Whether that is because it is just normal for INFJs to doubt that they are INFJ, or because it is simply rare for typically INFJ character traits to be particularily pronounced I don't know.

[Eric86]

Well, actually, I fit all of the descriptions I've read perfectly (except for a few very very minor things). The only thing really different is my very strong I and F preferences, which mixes things up a bit. That's not to say that I can't talk about things logically, because I can (and I'm rather good at it, especially when it comes to technical things, and can give someone the cold hard truth when necessary [followed by enough usage of Fe to make them not feel offended or put them on the defensive, which if that happened, would render telling them the truth pretty much pointless because they wouldn't take what I said to heart]), but it's just that everything else makes it pale in comparison (not to mention that most of the time I don't even really have to think much about something [or someone] to understand it because it comes naturally to me).

[Indubitably]

Well, actually, I fit all of the descriptions I've read perfectly (except for a few very very minor things). The only thing really different is my very strong I and F preferences, which mixes things up a bit. That's not to say that I can't talk about things logically, because I can (and I'm rather good at it, especially when it comes to technical things, and can give someone the cold hard truth when necessary [followed by enough usage of Fe to make them not feel offended or put them on the defensive, which if that happened, would render telling them the truth pretty much pointless because they wouldn't take what I said to heart]), but it's just that everything else makes it pale in comparison (not to mention that most of the time I don't even really have to think much about something [or someone] to understand it because it comes naturally to me).

I meant that you are atypical in that the information you provided seems to indicate a nearly equal preference for Fi, Ni, and Fe. Just because you have a preference for certain functions though, doesn't mean you can't use other functions, it usually just means that certain functions are much easier and less draining to use. If you are just as happy, and fluent, using a wide range of functions, it pretty much just means that for you the MBTI is inconclusive.

[Eric86]

What do you mean by that?

[green eyes]

People just tend to not want to get involved with me any more than they absolutely have to, and I don't understand why....:(

If it is possible for us to overwhelm ourselves, don't you think it's possible that we overwhelm others?

[Eric86]

If it is possible for us to overwhelm ourselves, don't you think it's possible that we overwhelm others?
I don't see how I would be doing that, especially since I'm very reserved and am normally rather quiet (though I am still pretty friendly and let others know I care about them in some way or another). I never act overbearing to anyone.

[ricearoni]

I don't see how I would be doing that, especially since I'm very reserved and am normally rather quiet (though I am still pretty friendly and let others know I care about them in some way or another). I never act overbearing to anyone.

A few posts back you wrote:

I try to be friendly, warm, open, and make myself available, and they act all nice and cordial to me (generally when other people are around), but they just don't ever want to get involved with me.

I think that might be part of your problem. How nice are you? Sometimes niceness can come across as overbearing or insincere. It can make people uncomfortable and feel like they either can't relate to you (because you're too good) or that they have to repay you for your kindness.

I don't know if you have this problem, but I know that people sometimes think I'm um...wholesome. Like I don't curse or say mean things. I've been told by a couple of people that they're afraid to curse in front of me because they think I'd be offended by it. Once they realize that I'm not such a goody goody, then they want to hang out with me all the time. It's kind of weird. Maybe your situation is similar to mine? Maybe all you need to do is just stop trying so hard to make everyone happy and just be a less censored version of yourself?

[Eric86]

I think that might be part of your problem. How nice are you? Sometimes niceness can come across as overbearing or insincere. It can make people uncomfortable and feel like they either can't relate to you (because you're too good) or that they have to repay you for your kindness.

I don't know if you have this problem, but I know that people sometimes think I'm um...wholesome. Like I don't curse or say mean things. I've been told by a couple of people that they're afraid to curse in front of me because they think I'd be offended by it. Once they realize that I'm not such a goody goody, then they want to hang out with me all the time. It's kind of weird. Maybe your situation is similar to mine? Maybe all you need to do is just stop trying so hard to make everyone happy and just be a less censored version of yourself?
That's not the case at all. Even though I've been told that I'm the nicest, sweetest person they've ever known, it has never come across as overbearing, and in fact I've been told many many times that they can easily tell that I'm being genuine. And since they know that I'm being genuine, they are not pressured to return my kindness. People are most definitely very comfortable around me, and only get even more comfortable around me the more we talk and do things together (again, I've always been told that I'm very comfortable to be around [especially by girls] and that they feel they can relax and be themselves, and they open up to me about their feelings and views about things, and things they don't talk about with anyone else, which would not happen if they weren't comfortable).

That is also not the case with me. Even though quite often I do come across as being very naive/innocent, I have also been known to swear on occasion (I never do it pointlessly, though; only to stress a point or to be funny), I can have a VERY sarcastic (and sometimes *gasp* SEXUAL!) sense of humor (oh and girls have also told me that they really enjoy talking about sex with me [even though I've never done it!]), they know that I drink and that I've gotten rather wasted a few times (when I drink I get really really hyper and more talkative [though still relatively quiet compared to everyone else] and wayyyyyy nicer/compassionate/etc. than I already am lol...I'm apparently really funny because of it), at work I've been known to occasionally randomly do funny things (like hacking away at a watermelon bin with a huge knife using it like a katana, or sarcastically making fun of someone), and I listen to a lot of extreme/unorthodox music (that most people, Christians in particular, would find offensive or at least not expect someone like me to listen to [I guess they'd expect me to listen to CCM and radio rock LOL]) and wear [black] metal shirts all the time.

I never censor anything of who I am, and I don't 'try' to make others happy either. All I ever do is be myself, because that is the most important thing to me. I am just a genuinely really nice person who cares about others a lot, and everyone knows that (even people who haven't talked to me very much at all have told me that; they know that I'm being real). The only thing that ever gets in the way of things is my shyness, which I've been improving a lot over the past year that I've been working at my current job (especially due to the help of two of the girls there who I was close with; unfortunately, both of them are no longer there, though), though obviously it's not something I can ever fully get rid of; I just do my best.

[ricearoni]

Oh well. I thought it might've related in some way.

[Eric86]

That's ok. I totally understand where you're coming from, though. I guess I'm just an unlucky exception.:p

[Thrifty]

Some people are simply not fit for MBTI. I rest my case; atm, my preferences are Ni,Fi,Ti,Ne (thanks for that test btw Eric, I had been looking for one that measured C.Processes), and I use them all more or less equally(not "1.primary, 2.auxiliary, 3.tertiary, 4.shadow").

Eric, I'm pretty sure you can't help it, but being too nice is not good, people just don't respect you(yep, they are that stupid). It pays off much more to be more assertive. You don't have to be a "bad person" so to say; just stand up for yourself.

[Merle]

Thrifty - that is the order that my preferences came up in as well... which I don't really get... I always test INTJ or INTP on the normal test but Ni Fi Ti Ne - how does that fit with either of those?!

Anyway, my boyfriend took the MBTI - I was almost sure he would be an ISTP or an INTP.... but he came out as an INFJ. He and I are really quite similar...but, you know, I think he may be the most private person I have ever met. He is much nicer, more forgiving and more friendly than me, but I would also say he's more logical... certainly more pragmatic - less idealistic than me. Maybe his result was wrong?...maybe I'm really, really not a an INtj!?

Edit: Oh no - I got my ne's and ni's round the wrong way --- Ne Fi Ti Ni

[Eric86]

Actually, the only people who've ever not respected me were the girls that I've been interested in in the past, and my step-dad (I'm the only person in my family who really stood up to his abuse, especially toward my mom.). I know everyone else does, and they think very highly of me as well. I have no problem with standing up for myself, but being assertive is really very difficult. And yeah, I can't help being nice cause that's just how I am.

[Indubitably]

You know, now that I think about it, I do have one female friend whom I am relatively certain is an INFJ (or at least so she says) and while a little on the neurotic side she is probably one of the least confrontational people I know. I couldn't really call her calm, but she is definitely quiet. I suppose she probably has a couple pet theories that are a bit on the dubious side from a logical stand point, but I've never seen her ranting and raving the way this one guy did.

While my brother claims to be INFJ, I strongly suspect that he is at most borderline on both the N and the F (he is an art major, and I think he likes the idea of being NF, but most of the time I'd swear that his behavior is far more like an ISTJ than any INFJ I've ever met) and he accounts for more than half of the supposed INFJ - INTJ conflicts I have witnessed. I am fairly certain that this one guys that my INTJ friend emotionally eviscerated was an INFJ because my friend, the INFJ in question, and myself, all took the legitimate MBTI test in a class that we all took together. If however, I eliminate my brother and this one guy, I think the majority of the remainder of confrontations could probably be chalked up to supposedly INFJ individuals of the male persuasion making a public spectacle of themselves in what could very well have been very poorly executed male posturing.

Getting back to my female INFJ friend, it occurs to me that she is perhaps one of the kindest, and most giving people I know, even to the point of being a fault at times. Don't get me wrong, in some ways she is a stronger person than I will ever be, but she is so compassionate, nurturing, and eager to give of herself that she winds up drained to the point of complete and utter emotional exhaustion, often without the people she has given so much of herself to, ever even noticing.

Now, if I were to put myself in my female INFJ friend's shoes, I imagine I might be keenly sensitive about being perceived as effeminate, and yet compelled to act in a fashion that society traditionally deems to be very effeminate. In light of some of the comments made by Eric, the fact that almost all of my friends are female, so many INFJs here have indicated that they have had INTJ relationships, and that almost all of the conflicts have been with male INFJs no older than their early twenties, it seems plausible that what I am noticing is simply the result of immature INFJ males over compensating for what they perceive as a personal lack of masculinity.

Does this seem reasonable to any of the older male INFJs in the thread? Do you feel like you are a much more giving, compassionate, and or accommodating person than other men? Did you feel a great deal of pressure to be more "masculine" when you were young, and looking back do you think you may have tried a little too hard to be masculine until you came into your own?

[jikin]

I can say that, at least on a friendship level, an INTJ-INFJ relationship can work out fine. My best friend of 12 years is an INTJ and I don't believe we've ever had even one real argument.



People just tend to not want to get involved with me any more than they absolutely have to, and I don't understand why....:(


I can relate to a lot of what you've said about your friendships and how they just sort of drift out of your life. I've always had this problem, also.

You may have actually mentioned the ultimate reason in post #47 when you mentioned about not being open. I've come to realize, at least in myself, that is my biggest block. True friendships are built on openness and trust, and if neither can be offered, the other party never makes a real connection. They have nothing to anchor them and keep them from drifting out. Unfortunately some people, like myself and possibly(?) you, take longer to establish the trust they need to be open and by that point the damage is already done.

[Eric86]

Now, if I were to put myself in my female INFJ friend's shoes, I imagine I might be keenly sensitive about being perceived as effeminate, and yet compelled to act in a fashion that society traditionally deems to be very effeminate. In light of some of the comments made by Eric, the fact that almost all of my friends are female, so many INFJs here have indicated that they have had INTJ relationships, and that almost all of the conflicts have been with male INFJs no older than their early twenties, it seems plausible that what I am noticing is simply the result of immature INFJ males over compensating for what they perceive as a personal lack of masculinity.

Does this seem reasonable to any of the older male INFJs in the thread? Do you feel like you are a much more giving, compassionate, and or accommodating person than other men? Did you feel a great deal of pressure to be more "masculine" when you were young, and looking back do you think you may have tried a little too hard to be masculine until you came into your own?
Well, I may not necessarily be 'older' (I'm only 22), but I'd definitely say that's what's going on.

I was pressured a lot to be more masculine when I was younger, but I never gave in to it. I'm just naturally a lot more feminine (in basically every way you can think of, aside from obvious physical differences, although I have been told that my facial structure is noticeably more feminine), and during the past few years of learning more about myself, I've come to be a lot more accepting of and comfortable with it. I've actually been told by some girls that I'm way more feminine than they are. lol





Eric86 added to this post, 4 minutes and 26 seconds later...

I can relate to a lot of what you've said about your friendships and how they just sort of drift out of your life. I've always had this problem, also.

You may have actually mentioned the ultimate reason in post #47 when you mentioned about not being open. I've come to realize, at least in myself, that is my biggest block. True friendships are built on openness and trust, and if neither can be offered, the other party never makes a real connection. They have nothing to anchor them and keep them from drifting out. Unfortunately some people, like myself and possibly(?) you, take longer to establish the trust they need to be open and by that point the damage is already done.
There have been some exceptions where I've been able to really open up to someone pretty much instantly (and I can tell who these people are even before I know anything about them at all....there is always something I notice about them that makes them somehow 'different' from everyone else, but I have no idea what), but even still, that never made a difference.

[karenk]

"Conspiracy Theorist" type of INFJ are usually other types that are in bad shape (ie. Unhealthy). They are usually counter-phobic Ennegram 6 types. Like that guy that Mel Gibson plays in that movie.

'True' INFJs are usually Ennegrams 4's (4w5 mostly-- some 5w4), which gives "The Darkness Inside" trait that is the basis for their personalities. INFJs are very difficult to comprehend, usually they don't even comprehend themselves(they can however comprehend other INFJs). It is the type I have most problems figuring out.

I tend to avoid INFJs, particularly a special breed that have like an "aura" of "emotional brooding". As if they are about to explode at any minute, but they manage to keep themselves at bay, barely. Some can become stalkers too, as they are obsessive of they love interests and can make them the focus of their lives. Others are insanely vindictive of the "what comes around, goes around" type. Some let themselves be betrayed (or place themselves in positions where it is likely to happen) so that they can get even with the person later, they derive pleasure from it. Those ones have a sado-masochistic streak.


I'm INFJ 4w5, but there's just so much variation within each type. For example, I was in a relationship with an INTJ and it's difficult to imagine he is anything like you.

[Thrifty]

Does this seem reasonable to any of the older male INFJs in the thread? Do you feel like you are a much more giving, compassionate, and or accommodating person than other men? Did you feel a great deal of pressure to be more "masculine" when you were young, and looking back do you think you may have tried a little too hard to be masculine until you came into your own?

I think that has more to do with being Ennegram 9. My 8 wing was not fully developed when I was younger, and I came across as others as "too nice" and was accused of being effeminate a few times, mainly because of very peaceful-ways, compassionate nature, slight mannerisms, and somewhat androgynous looks. Slowly as I matured, I turned more and more aggressive/assertive over the years as my 8 side developed, but I'm not sure if it was a result of me overcompensating, or rather normal development.

Thrifty - that is the order that my preferences came up in as well... which I don't really get... I always test INTJ or INTP on the normal test but Ni Fi Ti Ne - how does that fit with either of those?!

Anyway, my boyfriend took the MBTI - I was almost sure he would be an ISTP or an INTP.... but he came out as an INFJ. He and I are really quite similar...but, you know, I think he may be the most private person I have ever met. He is much nicer, more forgiving and more friendly than me, but I would also say he's more logical... certainly more pragmatic - less idealistic than me. Maybe his result was wrong?...maybe I'm really, really not a an INTj!?

Hmm, it's quite possible you may have mistyped. I am no MBTI expert but I've read it's quite common. Or you are one of those people who simply are very hard to peg with MBTI. From that information your boyfriend seems like an INFJ, and probably 4w5 or 5w4.

I'm INFJ 4w5, but there's just so much variation within each type. For example, I was in a relationship with an INTJ and it's difficult to imagine he is anything like you.

Well, I'm not the average INTJ. What do you exactly mean?

[mayumi]

Actually, the only people who've ever not respected me were the girls that I've been interested in in the past ...

Now I feel inclined to hand out pity dates. Don't say these things out loud okay.

It seems, INFJ men have it worse.

[CaptainA]

This is actually a behavior that INTJs mimic, to a lesser degree. When we feel like someone else is endangering our emotional autonomy, we start avoiding that person. This can happen even if said endangerment is in the form of an infatuation on that other person. We just don't DO sappy stuff, and here are all these sappy urges coming from this source. Answer? Avoid the source.

This can lead to hilarious situations in the formative high school/college years of the INTJ. Also sad ones.

We also do give the cold shoulder to people who prove themselves engrossed in spheres that hold no interest for us (my polite way of saying "useless people"). But there it's not particularly funny, since there's no attraction-repulsion dynamic. It's just what I've seen referenced in these forums as the "INTJ glacier" or the "INTJ hammer."

This really describes much of my school years and I just had to smile when reading it. Of course I didn't understand what was going on in those days. In fact am not to sure that I would be consciously aware of it now until someone points it out. I also remember the phenomenal male/female friendships I had prior to hormones staring to work on both sides.

Of course the hormones part is what this thread is trying to help.

[Eric86]

Now I feel inclined to hand out pity dates. Don't say these things out loud okay.

It seems, INFJ men have it worse.
I wouldn't want someone to do that out of pity.....only if they had genuine interest in me.

Although I can't speak for the others, since I don't know any, I've definitely had a really hard time with things.

[CarolinetheENFP]

eric youre always so negative!
*huggles*
now cheer up!

[Eric86]

lol actually I had a really good day today and yesterday, though for several days before that I was really down because my depression was acting up again, and I even missed a day of work because of it (I didn't wake up to my alarms and slept for 14 hours....).

[Seppuku Savant]

My INFJ and I are working out well. However, it took us two years to get here. Communication, misunderstanding, and neediness were the problems before. We have learned to talk to each other more openly and she gives me space. That's helped quite a bit.

[green eyes]

I've read that there can be a conflict between being masculine and being an INFJ.

...it seems plausible that what I am noticing is simply the result of immature INFJ males over compensating for what they perceive as a personal lack of masculinity.

Does this seem reasonable to any of the older male INFJs in the thread? Do you feel like you are a much more giving, compassionate, and or accommodating person than other men? Did you feel a great deal of pressure to be more "masculine" when you were young, and looking back do you think you may have tried a little too hard to be masculine until you came into your own?

Found this within a very interesting INFJ personality description (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) by the folks over at Murray State University:

Male INFJs have a more problematic situation because the qualities naturally preferred by INFJs are not those traditionally considered to be "male." To counter the image of being weak, male INFJs can become stubborn, often to a degree disproportionate tot he situation at hand. They are capable of taking a seemingly small issue and making it seem as if the entire world--or at least their masculinity--were riding on the outcome. The behavior unfortunately belies the fact that both male and female INFJs are reservoirs of quiet, intellectual introspective imagination who can inspire insight and growth in men and women alike. INFJs are often great thinkers whose pondering of the immense can bring great ideas to the forefront. Typically, they seek to spread their ideas in a quiet, deliberate way--more typically by the pen than by the sword.

[Eric86]

Good read. Fortunately, I've never done that myself at all.:) (being overdefensive of my self-image; it doesn't matter to me, so those thoughts don't even cross my mind one bit)

[gadjitfreek]

I have a cat. Her name is Mina. She is incredibly lovable, and I love her. People are unnecessarily complicated.

[alphawolf]

We INTJs enjoy the earmark of self-confidence.

Yes, until we meet an INFJ girl. Smart, beautiful, mysterious, passionate, emotional, submissively dominant, the list goes on and on. Could be the perfect match...

.

[Colette]

Yes, until we meet an INFJ girl. Smart, beautiful, mysterious, passionate, emotional, submissively dominant, the list goes on and on. Could be the perfect match...


Interesting. I'd worked out recently that INFJ (or possibly ENFJ with weak E) would be my perfect match. Any idea where such men are to be found? ;)

[alphawolf]

Interesting. I'd worked out recently that INFJ (or possibly ENFJ with weak E) would be my perfect match. Any idea where such men are to be found? ;)

You'd want a submissively dominant man? I just don't see how that could work.

I think male INTJ + female INFJ = potentially good match

I don't know about the other way around. I couldn't judge that.

[PortInStorm]

Who knows what submissively dominant is anyways, man or woman?

[alphawolf]

Who knows what submissively dominant is anyways, man or woman?

Submissively dominant woman, for example...

Will never, ever make the first move.
Demands an aggressive, confident man or the game is over.
But when making love, you know she is the one who is really in control.


That kind. I think INFJ women can be like this, but I seriously doubt that INFJ men are like this. Or if they are, what kind of woman would want one?

[Synamon]

And you back that statement up with what?

[PortInStorm]

Ok, now I'm on the same page. Ya, I'm not sure I'd like a submissive man- scratch that, I know I wouldn't. Obviously it's a fine line etc etc

[alphawolf]

And you back that statement up with what?

A really huge smile on my face ;-) No further comment.

[Synamon]

... but I seriously doubt that INFJ men are like this.

I guess I should have quoted you. You know this how?

[alphawolf]

I guess I should have quoted you. You know this how?

I don't. I just seriously doubt it.

When I am in T mode, I can't attract any women, hell I am even somewhat intimidated by many of them. Or maybe it's just that I can't read their signals when I am in T mode... When I am in F mode, complete opposite... I don't really have anything to base it on other than myself. That, and the general effects of testosterone on _any_ man.

[Colette]

You'd want a submissively dominant man? I just don't see how that could work.

I think male INTJ + female INFJ = potentially good match

I don't know about the other way around. I couldn't judge that.

Submissively dominant? That seems like a contradiction in terms :)

alphawolf, I have no desire whatsoever to dominate anyone; least of all a romantic partner. The reasons I'm speculating that INFJ might be my ideal SO type are as follows:

* I need an I, or very weak E, as a partner, because I need and value my own 'time' and 'space', and a moderate or strong E type wouldn't allow this, and would expect me to do an amount of socializing that would stress me out and make me anxious and irritable;

* I most certainly need an intuitive type and not a sensor. The 'N' factor is the one and only letter I would NOT compromise on now (having dated and been involved with a number of sensors, and realized what difficulty I have in communicating and connecting with them). Also N is my strongest preference of the four, so a sensor would be a really bad match for me, imo.

* Although I could see myself with either a T or an F, T is my weakest letter preference, and I actually doubt whether a T type could (or would want to) meet my emotional needs in a relationship, or show the degree of warmth and affection that I want and need from a partner;

* J/P: Again I could live with either, but I'm afraid I'm rather intolerant when it comes to strong Ps, who seem to me to live in a state of semi chaos most of the time, and their lack of planning, and casual attitude to timeliness and commitments, would in the long term be a huge source of tension I think.

So alpha, I hope I've now managed to disabuse you of the idea that I'm a total control freak looking for a convenient doormat :p

[Merle]

@ Colette - I'm going out with an INFJ guy at the moment, and I have to say, it's the easiest relationship I've ever had in terms of just general functioning. I don't feel pressured in any way to be affirming my affection all the time (which I had with an ESFJ), we talk about loads of interesting things and he's open-minded and interested in my interests in a way that none of my previous boyfriends have been ( e.g. Sci-fi and comic books and French films etc etc - things that my previous bf's have deemed nerdy or pretentious)... I think he has quite a low F.. and I have quite a low T... so in that sense we're not at the extremes... but seriously - INFJ's are great!

[publicdonkey]

Are you publicdonkey or secretdonkey? Why is there a difference between your avatar name and when you are quoted?

The original username is an identity I've been using for many years and too close to IRL. I corrupt the name when I'm looking for privacy but did not think to do so when signing up on this forum. Rub two synapses together, throw in a Google, and you'll be looking at my mug on MySpace. Site admin here were kind enough help me fix that. And, gotta love the irony of public = private. I'm not so much worried about personal privacy within this forum, but since the outside world can Google in...

Yes, until we meet an INFJ girl. Smart, beautiful, mysterious, passionate, emotional, submissively dominant, the list goes on and on. Could be the perfect match....

I don't think it was this thread where I revealed my current gf is an INFJ. FWIW, I'm hopelessly in love with her but it has not been a storybook or easy relationship. She is the absolute best partner my left brain could imagine... BUT the left side has to tell the right brain to suck things up and stop whining.

Perfect on paper. A mighty challenge in practice. Many close friends say I could do better, but they're looking out for my right brain. Glad someone is. More than anything, I suspect they tend to remember how much my former ISFP partner doted on me, and how easy was our rapport. I spent eleven years hoping she would learn to pay her own bills or clean the catbox, to no avail... I had to bolt.

My right brain would reconcile with the ISFP, my left brain will hold on to this INFJ in spite of all of the friends' advice...

Just because we are all INTJ in this thread does not mean that what's right for me is right for you. In the end, the best I can do is share this sort of subjective mush... :)





publicdonkey added to this post, 97 minutes and 50 seconds later...

My, my... what confusion... I change my username, and then a moderator splits the thread (plenty logical split, once I figured out where my post went!).

Anyway, as a newbie I wasn't aware of this thread until my post(s) got grafted into it. Having read through it, I must say DrEast's comments provide uncanny and almost eerie insight into my relationship with an INFJ.Greeneyes' posts have been instructive, as well..

Wow. Like, double wow, Scooby...

Glad I found this forum...

[alphawolf]

Also, like me, he appears to be extremely private and hard to get to know. I think he may be interested, but it's hard to tell because he's giving out mixed signals (I probably am as well). How did you deal with the challenge of being able to "read" a fellow intuitive?

Reading the standard body language to determine attraction is extremely difficult with introverts. Legs might be crossed in the wrong direction, arms might be crossed, leaning in might not happen, preening gestures non-existant, they might move away if you get too close, etc...

Read up on eye contact and attraction. If he's attracted but too afraid to make the correct eye contact, then he's probably intimidated by you (IMO probably not man enough for you). If you want to encourage him anyway, touch him very subtly, softly, and briefly in some area that is not threatening, but where and in a way that "just friends" wouldn't touch one another, on his outer thigh or something. Look into his eyes and smile when you do it. If he's still too afraid to make a move after that, then you should question if he would really be able to satisfy your needs or not in the romance department.

Just my 2 cents.