Memory

[qwerty]

After going over a few posts a few things hit me about memory and INTJ's. Phoenix bought something about remembering conversations something that seems natural to me and it always blindsides me when I'm talking to someone and mention something they said last week that they can't remember.

Now that is the interesting question. Is it natural for you to remember events and other things in great detail or have you ever had people come to you and ask you to remember to remind you of things?

For me it's not photographic - I can't look at a page of text and recite it but I will remember more than most and I have a habit of just picking up random details of anything and memorizing it without realizing it until someone brings it up months later.

Is this why INTJ's are so future oriented? Because they recall so much more than others or is it completely barking down the wrong tree?

[Jezebel]

I'm actually really terrible at remembering conversations. Partially because I go on autopilot with people so much when they're talking, so unless it's something I'm very interested in I often don't absorb it or remember it well.

My short term memory for remembering facts is okay, but I don't retain the details very well. I often need to go back and double check what I remember if I need to talk to someone about factual information. I do have a good general memory though. I remember a lot of stuff from when I was a very young child.

[INTJohn]

When I was in my teens and 20's, I had a photgraphic memory.........

...........but today, the pictures aren't quite as sharp.

INTJohn

[Ian]

So your photographic memory is under-developed, then? :thinking:

[phoenix]

My memory is exceptional, and is what allows me to do my job. Systems engineering involves knowing lots of information about many different parts of a machine (in my case satellite), its user interface, and the end user process and then discerning where problems may occur. There's no way to have all the bits and pieces written down. Many of them exist in software manuals, databases, operating instructions, etc....but most of the information I use is gleaned from hallway conversations with other engineers.

I take the tidbits of knowledge I have stored in my brain and (hopefully) at some point get the typically INTJ 'Eureka' moment that means I have identified a likely problem area. People have learned that when they see me coming it means something needs to be fixed.

[rwyatt365]

Generally, for non-personal things I retain a great deal of information. Bits and pieces of data about a vast array of things, some useful, some not. As with phoenix, my job requires me to be able to know, understand and correlate that information on-demand.

It's another thing when it comes to "people things". I'm terrible with remembering names, if I don't write it down I will forget names. I also can't remember specific details of conversations. I can remember the concept, or tone of the conversation but if asked to recite verbatim…NFW.

[Rei]

Something else that came up... Do bad memories stick out more in your mind or do good memories?

Generally, I think because of my perfectionism, I tend to remember all the bad stuff. I play it over and over, and think about all the different ways it could have been done better/happened differently.

[Evalind]

My memory is pitiful. If I did not feel some kind of emotion during an event, I'm likely to forget it. If an event was overwhelming beyond the emotions I felt, I'm likely to forget it. I also have the terrible habit of trying to forget times when I experienced uncomfortable emotions, thus I don't remember much at all without a good deal of prodding.

[jeffersonian]

Something else that came up... Do bad memories stick out more in your mind or do good memories?

Generally, I think because of my perfectionism, I tend to remember all the bad stuff. *I play it over and over, and think about all the different ways it could have been done better/happened differently.

Oh, totally. When I'm evaluating myself, I tend to dig up all sorts of old material that reflects badly on me.

In typical INTJ fashion, I typed in an example but then felt too personally revealed, so I deleted it. *:P

[TeleportThis]

I can remember conversations verbatim. I can remember lectures almost verbatim (I tend to space off from time to time). When reading, I remember where in the book a certain thing is and what part of the page it is on, but I do not have a photographic memory. I am convinced that this is because I needed glasses long before I got them. I couldn't see the board in school for about two years and had to learn everything by listening.

But when noticing things like what people are wearing, whether or not they have glasses, or the color of their hair, I probably won't remember.

[Guido]

I'm very good at remembering what I thought the other person meant to say as well as things that have occurred in the past. Not so much the actual words used unless there was something special about them. I generally remember things by taking a 'perfect' item or event as the base, and then remembering the details which essentially take away from that perfection. I also have a funny repertoire of little memory tools that I use :o

All in all, my memory is great when I try and remember something, but only decent for random daily events that don't have much importance.

[orange]

My memory is both great and horrible!

If I actually care (not just making people thinkI do), or think that the information may actually be important to me later I can remeber it flawlessly and ramdonly recall that data years later far after the information is of no use to me.

However, I rarely remeber conversations that I have. This is mostly because I do not care about conversations, even with my friends and I enjoy talking with them I usally dont really care about the content of what was said (the time with them is very important though). Unfortionatly that sets me up to hear the same things over and over again (we all know how much us INTJs love that!) because of the old "Have I told you_______" and about 2 sentences into the story I remeber it and by thin it's too late.

The rest of the time I dont even listen to the person talking to me, but I use some sort of working memory in the back of my mind that lests me give good meaningful responces and then instantly forget what both myself and the other person said.

[wolf]

Too good. See my diet blog for proof.

[hopscotch]

I remember themes and perceptions but don't have verbatim or photographic recall. If asked at the outset to remember a specific detail, I can. If asked in passing, don't count on me; I've found myself in the grocery store numerous times, unable to recall what I was supposed to purchase. Oddly, I have a great memory for birthdays and ages.

Bad memories are more vivid, probably because I'm a critical person. I focus on flaws and ways to improve things, so it's easier to remember people or events that have annoyed me. I think this is typical of our type, due to our love of logic, efficiency and systems.

[qwerty]

Something else that came up... Do bad memories stick out more in your mind or do good memories?

Generally, I think because of my perfectionism, I tend to remember all the bad stuff. I play it over and over, and think about all the different ways it could have been done better/happened differently.

Generally for me it's a combination. Both are equal but I do neglect the huge things I've done (I saved a guys life when he was being bottled) but that never comes to mind when I'm depressed or trying to motivate myself.

[Jack]

I delivered my daughter when she was born, I'll never forget that. If I had the courage to deliver her with zero experience, remembering that courage helps me, it feels awesome.

[Zeinland]

Mostly, I only remember, what's important to me. Or something that Il need in the future. I don't remember ANYTHING I don in school. Because School isn't important to me... I alredy learned, what I need...

[Max T]

Mostly, I only remember, what's important to me. Or something that Il need in the future. I don't remember ANYTHING I don in school. Because School isn't important to me... I alredy learned, what I need...

Brilliantly put Zeinland- I do exactly as you describe. *
In building our own beliefs/ systems/ theories that are or will be important, much irrelevant data is discarded (after the exam!).

"[INTJs] will adopt ideas only if they are useful, which is to say if they work efficiently toward accomplishing their well-defined goals... Theories which cannot be made to work are quickly discarded."
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The subsequent impact on my memory is that I'm hopeless at general knowledge quizzes and every day things.
But if data relates to my little clutch of beliefs/ systems/ theories, then it's easily retained in detail and chewed over ("does the data support my belief? does the belief need altering slightly? is there a pattern starting?" etc. etc.).

The typical danger of such selective memory retention- that we risk ignoring important conflicting data- I doubt applies to INTJs. * Because we're seeking what is right, not whether we're right.

[Evalis]

I think the danger still applies.. considering that what we may not have thought to be relevant at one time, could become relevant later. My assumption is that memory has a finite capacity though.. and I can't be bothered trying to remember every tiny detail. Theories and concepts stick around for a while though, and it's fun to backtrack them to their original justification.

Definately though.. I must say you are barking down the wrong tree..

[Max T]

My assumption is that memory has a finite capacity though.. and I can't be bothered trying to remember every tiny detail.

Certainly. *I think INTJs appreciate this limitation more than others and so retain only the important stuff (or what they consider important). * Leading to MBTI typecasters saying we're good at big picture thinking.

A few useful rules of thumb that support memory's finite capacity:
- 80:20 rule- 20% of input leads to 80% of output.
- Bounded rationality- increasing data (and so retaining more in memory) makes you more confident in your decision, it doesn't necessarily improve decision 'correctness'.
- To make a decision, memory works best with 7(+/-2) chunks of information at a time.

An old boss used to play tricks with staff by "out-remembering" minor details to catch them out. * But he couldn't see that the company was going to hit a rough patch in the next year. :-/

[Ijz]

It's another thing when it comes to "people things". I'm terrible with remembering names, if I don't write it down I will forget names. I also can't remember specific details of conversations. I can remember the concept, or tone of the conversation but if asked to recite verbatim…NFW.


That's spot on. I only remember concepts, specific facts, emotions and such, but nothing verbatim.

I once read that you only remember that what you observe. Hearing, or seeing something doesn't mean you will remember it. Only if your attention goes out to it, will you actually retain the information. So if you want to remember stuff, just put your attention on it and let your brain do the rest (it works btw).

As for my own memory, its both horrible and excellent. I can remember tons of code, where it is and what is does, instantly. However, I can't even remember in which year/month I had a certain outing with some of my friends.

[thegnat]

Generally, for non-personal things I retain a great deal of information. Bits and pieces of data about a vast array of things, some useful, some not. As with phoenix, my job requires me to be able to know, understand and correlate that information on-demand.

It's another thing when it comes to "people things". I'm terrible with remembering names, if I don't write it down I will forget names. I also can't remember specific details of conversations. I can remember the concept, or tone of the conversation but if asked to recite verbatim…NFW.


exactly the same here.

Though I did think my memory was slipping yesterday when I couldn't remember past the first 10 digits past the decimal of pi....I don't normally forget or mess up or blank the 8979323 after 3.1415926535... I actually blanked it yesterday! So of course I had to look it up and it all came back... the 846264 i might flip around sometimes but usually pretty good and once i'm there I always nail the 3383...

but I'll generally remember tennis scores from awhile ago - phone numbers that I never call, or never call me anymore...and of course useful numeric stuff but there's a lot of useless stuff in there too.

and obviously my "people stuff" memory just isn't great. I'm horrible with names. Then if I'm not around them too terribly much but I see them, I go "heeey! how are youuu??" really fakely(yes I realize that's probably not a word) and don't mention their name....

[melon]

While I'm terrible at remembering some things, especially things like names and phone numbers, I'm good at remembering others. If I think that a certain fact will be important to remember, I'll usually remember it. I remember most of what I read in my free time, because I obviously think that what I'm reading is important (if I didn't, I wouldn't be wasting my free time reading it). For example, the other day, my parents were talking about somebody with the last name "Bennett." Our family knows another person with that same last name who lives in another state, and my mom was wondering if they were related, to which I casually said, "Probably not; Bennett is the 77th most common last name in the United States." My parents started cracking up and asked me how I knew. I have no idea, but I must have read it somewhere. It's not like I remembered the entire list of the 100 most common surnames, either; I must have recognized the surname "Bennett" and made a mental note of how common it is.

Unfortunately, I can't remember things that I either don't consider important or am not consciously trying to remember. For example, I'm not doing very well in my Spanish class, because I know that I'll rarely, if ever, speak Spanish outside the classroom. I'm not good at remembering phone numbers either, because I rarely call people. If I have to call them, I'll just store the number in my phone and use speed dial. :)

[BadgerDad]

I have been told I have a good memory. I dont think that's true. What I think is true is that since I can see the "entire tapestry" I can easily see missing or misplaced threads.

[mielikki]

I have ADHD, and consequently my short-term memory skills suck on a major scale.

Except for numbers, that is. If I see your license plate once, I'll never forget it....or your phone number.

That is actually uncomfortably savant-like....

[banzai]

I would say my memory is anywhere between bad to terrible. I do remember certain things very well, but in a constant flurry of thinking, old information doesn't survive long.

[Danisty]

I have a very good memory for most things, but I can never remember exactly what happened in a novel, tv show, movie, etc. I can't even remember the details of my very favorite stories. I actually kind of like this though because it lets me enjoy them again and again with fresh excitement. I guess entertainment just isn't important enough for me to store.

Information on the other hand, is something I can't seem to forget even if I want to. For example, in 4th grade, I sat in front of a boy named Brett (I know his last name too, but maybe shouldn't post it) who did an oral book report about Dwight D. Eisenhower who's name is actually David Dwight Eisenhower but changed it because he didn't want to be confused with his father. Do I really need to know this? Do I really need to know the phone number of the girl I was best friends with in 8th grade before her parents went psycho and fraudulently called the ATF on my parents just to get revenge because I started dating the boy that their daughter broke up with? Is that really so important?

[Ribcakes]

for me, i have an almost perfect Photographic memory
especially when i comes to music.
i sing in the school chorus and i can almost read the music out of my head.
i also tend to pass exams by remembering the page of the text the information was on
it gets very disturbing after a while

[Myrak]

I have a very good memory. A lot of people say it's photographic, I wouldn't go that far. I definitely see images with my mind's eye and that aids me immensely in remembering stuff. If there are four types of inputs: audio, visual, written and kinetic, I would definitely say that if I combine two or more of those inputs for the same information, there is a much better chance of it being committed to my long term memory. For example, I have a hard time remembering stuff solely from audio, but if combined with visuals of the same information it sticks much better. I also can't remember paragraphs verbatim when I read, but I usually get the gist of the passage and remember that.

I generally can turn my memory on and off for storing info, if I decide the data is truly relevant and useful I'll commit it and it'll usually stick (enhanced further by repetitions). If I decide the info I'm getting is complete garbage (most school subjects, small talk, etc) I'll just switch off, occasionally it'll sit in my short term memory but it's quickly purged. Learning and playing music is quite weird for me, as my sight reading is very good and can pick up songs quickly with little practice (I play guitar btw). However, unless the song is one of my favourites, I just can't "feel" the song to give it that extra something special. The way I play seems very mechanical. I know very little music theory and can't tune a guitar to save my life. It amazes me when some people can tell a note is wrong, and name the note as well. I just can't do that.

Also, I just finished Year 11 this year, I seem to have turned cruise control on for most of my studies. Throughout the year, I'd listen in class, read the relevant textbook chapters and it'd be committed to my long term memory. My memory is then further enhanced by doing the exercises assigned, but I mostly skipped out on doing any homework and still got mostly A's for everything. I feel that overloading myself with copious amounts of study for something I already understand is completely redundant (maybe that'll change in the near future; if it does, I'll just adapt my systems, because that's what I do).

[Caramel]

audio, visual, written and kinetic

What exactly is kinetic memory input? (Sorry for asking such a stupid question heh. Language problems. I know the word kinetic, but then in the context of kinetic energy.)

I can remember about anything I wish to remember. Be it usefull information, such as the departure times on trains and busses in every major city in the Netherlands, or completely worthless data, such as car plate numbers, the exact words on a poster, phrases in a movie, conversations I had 5+ years ago..

I found out that it is for me significally easier to remember some large chunck of data when I can find patterns in it and create some kind of overview. Like a map, where you zoom in to a new level of details each time this is required.

[quentin]

Having developed legal blindness at a very early age, I'm not a very visual person and my sight memories aren't that great. So at an early age I had to learn how to develop the auditory side of my senses and I'm quite good at remembering sounds: music, a person's voice. I can remember word for word conversations I've had with people.....even if I can't quite remember their names.

[Hypomanic]

My memory is improving all the time... must be that I'm reaching 20. I want to play chess and keep an active mind so I don't loose it when I get older though.

[Yonae123]

Very true for me that I only remember the things that are important to me. Generally, conversations aren't unless I'm arguing with someone about something I care about. At times I can be sharp as a tack and other times drift off into the clouds if it doesn't interest me.

I always came top in my class when we played memory games, but when it came to school tests I struggled somewhat with the boring stuff.

[Bossy Mom]

I've always had an exceptional memory, except for remembering people's names. I can recite every word they have told me, but I cannot remember their names!

[Hypomanic]

I've always had an exceptional memory, except for remembering people's names. I can recite every word they have told me, but I cannot remember their names!

Exactly! I can quote word for word and have a very good visual/linguistic-oriented memory. Names take a little more effort.

[bubbles]

I would say that I have a very bad memory: I have a hard time remember names, sounds, words, and many other details but I can easily remember things that I need to remember (i.e., things that are useful). I don't know how people remember details and events from their childhood. I can't even remember details from middle school, so I don't much childhood memories at all.

[quentin]

As a writer, remembering conversations is an important skill. Observing people is one of the most important skills to develop.

[Pinkie]

My memory is extremely good, provided that the thing I'm having to remember interests me. If not, then there's not a chance in hell that I'll have any idea what you're talking about should you mention it the day after. I also find that I remember strong impressions more than anything else, especially if music is involved. Some pieces of music just drag me back to summer 2004, or whenever. Weird.

[axiomtangent]

I believe my memory to be horrible, but I expect to remember everything down to the smallest detail and when (obviously) I can't it frustrates me.

I was "supposed" to have an eidetic memory when I was young, but I've never really believed it. I do have amazing recall of facts at odd times, and make quick associations when I think of a topic or object (sometimes too many and it becomes paralytic).

If, in fact, my memory is photographic then I have the worst photo filing system in the world. All the memories may be in my head but their kept in a bag all jumbled up.

It could be that our personality types tend to have overdeveloped memories because of the demands we place on them. We "exercise" our memories more often than other personality types because we view knowledge and experience as data that may be put to some purpose in the future and therefore must be saved. I know I'm a mental pack-rat, how about the rest of you?

[danalaina]

I'm actually really terrible at remembering conversations. Partially because I go on autopilot with people so much when they're talking, so unless it's something I'm very interested in I often don't absorb it or remember it well.

hm. in the area of conversations, i'm quite good. i try my best to remember things as close to verbatim as possible and do pretty well most of the time. this probably has something to do with how i grew up, though. my mom is the sort who hears what she wants. being misquoted has become one of my biggest pet peeves, so i think i've tried especially hard to avoid that selective memory trait and also to be more precise with diction than i might otherwise have been.

i actually must be in the conversation, though. if someone is trying to talk to me when i'm distracted, i'll retain nothing, even seconds after it was said.

[BadMojo]

My memory is strange. I don't recall social situations very often, but I'm very good at remembering music. For instance, I heard a song in the radio, and I could place it in my cd collection. (Alice Cooper - Poison; Rock Olympics cd 3 track 14) That happens to me all the time... hehe
Also, when it comes to writing a project, I often find my overview superior to others. Then I'll know where everything is written, as long as I have been involved writing it. But give me a small amount of theory and I can't remember it in details. (Unless it's Luhmann, I like Luhmann)

[maximo]

I have a pretty good memory. As an example, I read something about the nature of men and women in regards to polygomy and monogomy (I just flipped open the book, The Red Queen). I wanted to show my INTP friend a few days later, so I flipped through the book, I remembered what side of the page and roughly which chapter it was in after only picking up the book briefly to pass the time while waiting for a friend at a restaraunt.

[quizicsr]

The only name with immediate memory recall is my dog's. Not even my kids. Forget phone numers, especially my cell.

BUT... if just after climbing into bed, I think of something I need to remember to do in the AM, I touch my alarm clock and "implant" the thought. 100% recall in the AM when I awake and touch my alarm clock. Also, if I think of something I need to recall when in the shower, I touch what I know I'll grab first -- the towel and implant the thought. That works too. Try it and let me know if it works.

PS: never works for numbers for me, mielikki.

[isa17]

i can remember what people say extremely well.
for example in the first couple days of school my friend was asking herself what class she had next and i answered her before she could answer it herself because she had mentioned it before

my friends also think its weird that i know pretty much everyone's first and last name even if i've never talked to them before
i also like to figure out peoples class schedules, its like a puzzle
i think back of everything they have said to me and then i figure out their schedule
some people think im trying to stalk them or something but it really is entertaining and i have no intentions of stalking them

[Terian]

I have partial photographic memory. I've been able to develop it a bit to the point where I can take a mental snapshot of whatever it is I'm looking at, but it really only stays in my short-term memory. If I try to recall it about a week later, I'll probably remember what it was, and if I do, it get's locked in my long-term memory. It's pretty handy, actually. It is my number one aid when I'm taking tests or trying to remember phone numbers.

As for audio-graphic memory, I have to say mine is lacking. I mean, I've been forced to be able to remember a complex list of instructions that were dictated to me, but it's nowhere near as easy for me as if I were to have read them. But still, I end up looking like a genius amongst my peers as it is, so I'm not complaining.

[PRBori]

I'm bad remembering names and conversations for which I have no interest, but if I have an interest in the conversation or the person says something that catch my attention I tend to remember that. Even at work, if I don't work with the person on a daily basis is hard for me to remember the names... currently there are many people who call me by my name but I myself don't recall their names and I feel odd asking them so I tend to just continue the conversation normally.

For example, a friend of mine who means a lot to me asked me to take him over to a friend of his and its an area I've never being too. I only went there one time to take him and until this day I still remember how to get to his house; however, I have a new friend who lives close to me and I've being to her house a few times but I have trouble remembering her house. The first example I haven't being there for over a year, but I can go anytime without directions because for some reason that stood on my head, but the later one I think it will be one more trip before I can say OK, I have the way saved on my mind.

Kind of Odd... I also have a good memory for directions in the DC, MD, VA area, but specially DC. As long as the person can ping point a touristic area, a place near the major streets, or government agency I know how to get there without a map and I always think of the quicker way to go.... kind of photogenic memory in that aspect.

[dissident]

I'm terrible at remembering information, but good at remembering things and places, thus some of those memory techniques that have you associate items with objects actually works with me.

The more emotional something is, the more I'll remember it too. I don't have very many interests at all period, whereas most people, even your most die hard introverts and intuitives, feel a need to be individualistic and have all these likes, dislikes, and interests... this makes it even more difficult for me to strike up conversations with even fellow NT types as although I do share their interest in intellectual topics, I don't feel the need to memorize all sorts of factual details about the various subjects.

[Marcus]

My memory for unimportant details is far below the average, but I don't really need it. I store the information in a highly compressed abstract form. I don't even know all the names of major streets in the city where I've been living for 30 years, but I'm very good at map reading. I relied on a map of the campus even during my fifth year at the university. Also, my workmates once showed me photographs about a party. I got a bit upset for not being invited. I turned to the next page just to see myself smiling on the picture...

[Fruvous]

OMG, Marcus, is that Knut? :)

Anyhow... I have what I think of as a vast but heavily processed memory. I soak up everything I see, hear, or do, but then it enters the subconscious machinery of my INTJ brain, and gets distilled, drained, strained, filed, folded, spindled, mutilated.... and the important bits eventually get added to my INTJ mental model of the world. The analogy I've used before is that the things I experience all go into my mind like ingredients into a recipe.... but afterward, they're gone. Or rather, not gone.... they're just cake now. :P Sure, that cake still contains eggs, flour, milk, etc. But in a real sense, all those ingredients are gone now, at least in terms of being separate entities. They're all cake now.

So what I retain and what I do not often has to do with what can survive this sort of processing. I have never been good at, or fond of, memorization. Luckily, I just retain things anyhow. I did very little studying in school. I just remembered what we'd done in class naturally. But rote memorization requires remembering things without much context. I don't remember those sorts of things. To mean, knowledge is only a tool towards understanding. Once I have the understanding, the knowledge becomes pared down to what is absolutely necessary to the understanding.

I hope some of this is making sense. :)

Also, I don't really have a lot of conscious contrao over my memory. It all happens under the hood. I can remember specific things if I try really hard, but I can't memorize long strings of data without context, like phone numbers or digits of pi or anything like that.

I'm often amazed at how much my roomates know about Star Trek, Star Wars, and other nerdly things. They obviously retain way way more of what they see and hear than I do!

[SongofSeptember]

I have an excellent memory. I can recite random quotes from books, even if I've only read them once. I also have a tendency to remember random things that happened years ago, even if there wasn't much emotional impact, especially things people said. I also remember tunes and melodies, when I don't recognize the song name. This especially goes for classical music.

I tend to "remember" as opposed to "memorize". It pisses me off when people complain how hard biology is, because they have to "memorize" all the parts of the digestive system and their functions, or whatever. I don't "memorize" unless it's something that I have to recall word for word, like lines in acting, a poem, or digits of pi, etc.

The one memory weakness I have is a terrible sense of direction. If I were to park a car in the parking lot of a mall and go somewhere else for thirty minutes, there is no way I'm going to find that car without assistance, unless there's an area number/color or whatever.

[Max]

When I was younger I could remember anything and everything. I always got frustrated when someone didn't remember me or when they had no idea what I was talking about. I always remembered everyone I met and everything I said, so why couldn't they?


Anyway, all of that is in the past because these days I can't remember anything anymore. It makes me sad = [