Do "physically attractive" people really have it easier?

[Samoan Corleone]

I'm not just wondering about them having an easier time picking up a mate, but would a physically attractive person have an easier time applying for jobs (not just modeling jobs), gaining trust, etc? Also, I'm aware of the subjectivity in this matter so, for the sake of definition, "physically attractive" means to not be overweight and to have facial symmetry or whatever it is the media says makes for an attractive face.

This thread was inspired by this other thread (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

As shown in the above link, "physically attractive" people are also perceived to be vain and to have dull personalities, which shows that their looks don't always work in their favour.

[Pachystima]

In the limited amount of reading I have done on the subject, the consensus is that physically attractive people have an advantage when it comes to getting jobs and promotions and being trusted. I can't just now give any references but I am quite sure that this facet of human behavior is well recognized and could easily be documented.

[themuzicman]

I would say that physically attractive people face a different, however not necessarily easier, set of problems, compared to the rest.

But because everyone wants to have what physically attractive people tend to get, it is assumed that they are on easy street.

[admittedheretic]

I would say that physically attractive people face a different, however not necessarily easier, set of problems, compared to the rest.

Like what?

[themuzicman]

Depending on how they present themselves, either expectations of leadership and greatness or supreme confidence and competency, or (in the case of blond types), the assumption that they are all looks and no brain.

Look at how people think that movie stars are somehow smart enough to be able to speak authoritatively on scientific subjects. That kind of thing.

(And the assumption that Drew Barrymore is a ditz.)

[admittedheretic]

I get where your coming from, but I would say that those are without question lesser problems.

[LionsPride]

Yes, attractive people have it easier and there have been many studies that have found that to be the case. If studies aren't your thing, there was a story done by Dateline (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) in terms of hidden cameras and seeing how much extra help the attractive people got over the unattractive. I thought it was interesting and true to what I have seen.

“A person's physical attractiveness -- the look that they're basically born with -- impacts every individual literally from birth to death,” says Dr. Gordon Patzer, dean of the College of Business Administration at Roosevelt University. He's spent 30 years studying and writing about physical attractiveness. “People are valued more who are higher in physical attractiveness. As distasteful at that might be, that's the reality.”

[eibuos]

Yes, without a doubt. People are nicer, they go out of their way to help you, etc. You get invited more places. On an episode of 30 Rock they called it "the bubble".

Of course there is a downside, but I think the upside more than makes up for it. This is not to say that they don't have the same problems that unattractive people have, they do but life in general is made easy for them by others.

[MyOtherSelf]

You don't necessarily get treated better, you do receive more attention overall, both negative and positive. But no one actually cares about you more. Besides having the luxury of being more likely to be paired with an attractive mate, there are few benefits that really make life easier, IMO.

I have ugly duckling syndrome so I have experienced both ends. It's interesting to have that perspective, though it is a little bit depressing. Looks count for so much more than they should in a rational world.

[Vagrant]

I don't know. I'm told I'm physically attractive, but I've recognized it as the "generically attractive" category. I blend really well with any crowd.

That said, I'm fairly sure it has helped me gain the trust of people a lot more quickly. I seem to be able to garner the trust of people quickly by comparison to many of my friends.

[Dru]

i believe they do, yes. people are more predisposed to like people who are generally viewed as attractive.

my friend and i were pulled over once for something we should have gotten a ticket for, or at the very least a warning, but we smiled and chatted with the officer, and he let us go without even that.

[SelfMadeBum]

Hundreds of students stop by my window at the computer centre for help with various things. More attractive people expect special treatment - they smile, cajole, etc. and think that being cute will get them some advantage.

It doesn't work with me, but the expectation is clear.

[Samoan Corleone]

I've been called "handsome" more than a few times. I can't say if my alleged "looks" have gotten me a free meal that wouldn't have gone to someone viewed as less attractive, or anything. I don't think I'd notice a difference until I go outside with a pillow under my shirt, no moisturiser on my face, and big, pointy prosthetic ears; similar to the experiment conducted in the book Black Like Me (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

[liquidzilla]

Well good looking people usually have more confidence and so are usually more successful at job interviews and have better social skills. If they are good looking and shy they would be like any other shy person when it came to an interview. You can also become more attractive by having confidence.

[Guybrush]

People tell me I am attractive. I haven’t noticed many advantages in my life. Perhaps it helps me attract women despite being introverted but that’s about it.

I actually resent the extra attention when I am in public.

[MikeC]

Yes. My siblings take a very pragmatic approach to bank on this.

My better-looking brothers (though no less smarter) liase with our clients and supply chain partners, while I am quite happy crunching numbers halfway around the world to redistribute capital between our held companies. Couldn't have worked better for us, and it is a fact of life that we find counter-beneficial to deny.

Of course, I always ask myself how far can nature affect one's personality? If I had been a cute kid, would all the received attention develop me into a more extroverted person? Would appearing friendlier as a kid brought more friends instead of spending time alone with books and musical instruments?

[TigerL]

Somewhat. Being attractive might give you an initial advantage e.g. bigger pool of mates to pick from and get you easier access to influential people but then you have to back it up with other personality traits. In my area of work, if you can't do the job it doesn't really matter how pretty you are.

That said, I have been the sidekick to more than one fabulous looking girl friend and have dated some conventionally handsome men and have seen the favors they are able to procure by flirting.

I like being average-looking. I think people in general are more comfortable around me and when people are attracted, I know it's not based mostly on how I look - would rather someone like me for my personality.

I think the effects are more noticeable if you are on the other end - i.e. you have an asymmetric face and are below-average looking.

I also read an interesting study a while back talking about how women tend to downgrade their looks while men tend to think they look better than they are using objective measures of symmetry.

[ZincLysine]

Yeh. People assume stuff about you from how you look. Its like a marketing signal. If you're overweight, you're assumed to be lazy or unconfident. If you're slim and weedy, people assume you're a push over. If you're in the middle, well built, people assume you're confident and powerful. If you're tall, people assume you're a natural leader because they (physically) look upto you.

When I was in shape, I got all sorts of offers I never got when I was fat. People offered me spots on the radio, assumed I was cool, invited me to all sorts of secret network events that I never had access to when I chubb munster.

Get in shape/Stay in shape. You have it easier that way.

[Sk8ordude]

I think it is benificial for more less social introverted people to be attractive, but personality and intelligence are also important factors and canmore then make the difference for an average looking person if the attractive person is lacking in those areas.

However if you have all three going for you, the odds are good that you will do better then somone lacking in one or all three catagories given that these are the only variables that are much different.

[Thinker]

Being attractive definitely has benefits. (Note I would not count myself as attractive).

The number of opportunities given to people is a function of the number of positive interactions we have with other human beings. Attractive people have more opportunity because they have more positive interactions with others.

Of course as others have said above attractiveness is not the only determinant, but it is a very strong variable. There are many other variables including luck.

The benefits are both in a social and professional/career context, although, I think that attractiveness has less of an impact in your career the more senior you are.

In relationships as has been said on this forum ad infinitum, dating/relationships is a numbers game. Attractive people have much better numbers.:)

[jonam87]

Yes I would agree that "physically attractive" people have it easier. Not a ginormous advantage, but I think someone who is less appealing (according to our cultural standards) has to show more inner strength than someone who is "easier on the eyes" of an interviewer. If an interview was modeled on a point system, being attractive would simply add a few extra points to your tally. The field of work is a sure factor as well, an employer may be even more scrutinizing on an interviewee if the job generally involves dealing with servicing others. As foolish and ignorant as that may be, it seems to be an occurrence in our society.

[kepstein8888]

I think it's more about charisma than physical attractiveness.

I've seen attractive people who everybody hated, not necessarily because they were bitchy, vain, or high-maintenance. I've seen ugly people who everybody loved, and even found attractive.

Charisma is rare, but doesn't discriminate based on physical appearance, income, class, weight, or any other factor. Either you have it, or you don't. And it doesn't go away when get old and wrinkly.

It's quite fascinating to see how charisma transcends all of those things, and how people are drawn to people with it. They just show up at their door, thinking they have all the answers, or just to be around them.

As many have mentioned, being pretty is a mixed bag that can often go either way, depending on who you're dealing with. If you find a lamp with a genie in it, don't ask for looks. Ask for charisma. Better to be Julia Child than Paris Hilton.

[Samoan Corleone]

Charisma is dependent on vibes, so perhaps it's a more iNtuitive thing, whereas physical beauty would typically be more effective in endearing a person to a Sensor.

[catzmeow]

It largely depends upon the context. When I was lobbying legislators for certain projects, the fact that I was cute & blond was definitely a help. I guarantee that a lot of the male legislators would prefer to meet with a charming woman than to meet with another crusty, cigar-smoking old male lobbyist. So, that was a help.

In my job, it has a tendency to make people underestimate me. I have what I'd call a cute, bubbly personality. People tend to take that at face value, and assume that's all there is.

For me, at least, being attractive didn't occur until I went to college. So, I spent most of my formative years being very average-looking, and having to focus on developing my insides, especially my brains. I was shy, so I spent a lot of time alone, reading books & studying. It sucked at the time, but it forced me to develop some depth that I note is sometimes lacking in people who are too attractive, too early in life. They start relying on their looks, rather than their brains, to succeed. And, they sometimes lack empathy, because things tend to be handed to you in high school when you're pretty.

Because I work in a male-dominated field, I'd have to say that being attractive has been far more of a help than it has been a hindrance. Men tend not to see me as a threat until it's too late. ;)

[invicta]

As far as interviews go, I think that people at the "10" end of the scale might not have it as easy as 7s, 8s or 9s, because there is still something relatable to the rest of the population as a 7, 8 or 9. Women who are 10s are often resented by other women, and men might not want the implication that they hired them only for reasons of sexual attraction.

I also think that 8s get more dates than 10s because most people can see an 8 as being either in their league, or close enough to take the chance.

[Causa Mortis]

It largely depends upon the context. When I was lobbying legislators for certain projects, the fact that I was cute & blond was definitely a help. I guarantee that a lot of the male legislators would prefer to meet with a charming woman than to meet with another crusty, cigar-smoking old male lobbyist. So, that was a help.

In my job, it has a tendency to make people underestimate me. I have what I'd call a cute, bubbly personality. People tend to take that at face value, and assume that's all there is.

For me, at least, being attractive didn't occur until I went to college. So, I spent most of my formative years being very average-looking, and having to focus on developing my insides, especially my brains. I was shy, so I spent a lot of time alone, reading books & studying. It sucked at the time, but it forced me to develop some depth that I note is sometimes lacking in people who are too attractive, too early in life. They start relying on their looks, rather than their brains, to succeed. And, they sometimes lack empathy, because things tend to be handed to you in high school when you're pretty.

Because I work in a male-dominated field, I'd have to say that being attractive has been far more of a help than it has been a hindrance. Men tend not to see me as a threat until it's too late. ;)

I love it when people call themselves attractive and bring it into an argument that they expect others to read. If you're going to do so, at least provide a picture, or else I'm calling vanity.

[Zodd]

When talking about people with symetrical faces and for woman a wasptaille and for men that lean v-shape and big frame, yes they are lucky with their looks. When you've got a client thats so handsome your not only helping him buying clothes but also showing you are the best in taking care of all his/her needs as you see him as a potential sexpartner.

Heard someone on this forum about back in the old days with tribes and stuff, leaders could pick the woman to mate with and they choose the best physical woman (=pretty) to bear his offspring. The leader with most likely the better physique, charisma, intelligence and the pretty woman therefore resulted in the best model for a human.
So their overall is probably better to. This has grown in our brain, the better you know this the better for your genes. Therefore the expectation of tribeleader abilities is more quickly associated with pretty people.

They have the ability to mesmerize more easily. The way her hair falls on her forehead, those big wet eyes, those dipples in her cheeks, her lips. Oh you know.

It can be just nice to look at someone pretty for the sake of just looking at it, when your barber is pretty for instance.

I can't see how you can think there aren't any advantages, but yeah maybe the disadvantages outweigh them in this time we live in.

I think it's more about charisma than physical attractiveness.

I've seen attractive people who everybody hated, not necessarily because they were bitchy, vain, or high-maintenance. I've seen ugly people who everybody loved, and even found attractive.

Charisma is rare, but doesn't discriminate based on physical appearance, income, class, weight, or any other factor. Either you have it, or you don't. And it doesn't go away when get old and wrinkly.

It's quite fascinating to see how charisma transcends all of those things, and how people are drawn to people with it. They just show up at their door, thinking they have all the answers, or just to be around them.

As many have mentioned, being pretty is a mixed bag that can often go either way, depending on who you're dealing with. If you find a lamp with a genie in it, don't ask for looks. Ask for charisma. Better to be Julia Child than Paris Hilton.

Charisma can to some degree be learned, but I don't know if you can ever be just as charming as the naturals (have never read the last pages of "The Game" by Neil Strauss).
Charisma is really unbelievable powerfull sometimes and can really easy transend things.

[BlackOp]

Whoever states beauty isnt power is a liar.......take Palin for example. If she were 350 lbs and butt ugly ,spouting the same words...sorry. Seems people just want to hate on the truth...If ANYONE thinks the beautiful ones dont have an advantage....they are kidding themselves. Truly....

[Guybrush]

The other side of the coin that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that of jealousy: insecure people looking for ways to drag high status people down.

Here in Australia it's called "Tall Poppy Syndrome."

I have heard accounts of women resenting other women who are more attractive than them and acting passive aggressive towards them. I expect insecure men play similar games too. Short man syndrome for example.

I think attractive people have an advantage, but there are negatives too.

[freedom]

I consider myself attractive..not extremely attractive....but above average...I haven't always....growing up...it was something i noticed in other people and probably I strived for...so when I go out in the world, I aim to be striking...or to make the beauty seem natural...but it's in advantage when it comes to shallow things ..like somone wanting to have sex with you mostly...a person might give u a job...or not give u a speeding ticket in the hopes that there is a small chance the gesture will somehow lead to sex with you...or a gesture from you that suggests they are attractive to you and that increases their confidence....it's not something substantial....being attractive justs attracts more bs that you have to sort though and deal with...and that can kill your confidence....i was watching the movie "elegy" and a character stated..."You know what the problem with beautiful women is?:; No one ever sees them"

I also have to ugly myself up if I'm going certain places or I need things from women..I have to be extra nice or boost their confidence with compliments to try to avoid the natural hate.

[BlackOp]

i was watching the movie "elegy" and a character stated..."You know what the problem with beautiful women is?:; No one ever sees them"

I also have to ugly myself up if I'm going certain places or I need things from women..I have to be extra nice or boost their confidence with compliments to try to avoid the natural hate.
Back in the day, I worked at a very upscale restaurant....the owner, very cleverly, had an agreement with Ford Models and hired "newbies" as hostesses. I went out with one (as friends) after work one night for a few drinks...it was funny, we were sitting at the bar and when she got up to use the bathroom, I shit you not, nearly every girl was starring at me and smiling. This never happens when you are alone. I was like "shit women are truly cutthroat and ruthless". I never thought about how mean other girls probably were to her...

She said that men never asked her out...they would ask for her number but never call. She was naturally, strikingly beautiful...almost looked fake. It was weird to think her looks had isolated her...but from the other end of the spectrum. You would think or project that she had this mad social life. I'm not sure she could ever initially trust someone....with her natural disposition, her looks were too upfront and intimidating. There was no way to ignore it...and nowhere for her to hide.

[hubcap]

I have no doubt that "attractive" people can get the door opened easier than someone who is butt ugly, which is a particularly useful thing if you're in sales.

But in the business world that only carries you so far. You've still got to perform.

[Scatterbrane]

She said that men never asked her out...they would ask for her number but never call.

Seen some sociological research indicate that people not only tend to seek relationships with others on similar scales of beauty as themselves, but that relationships between individuals of similar beauty tend to be among the more lasting and fruitful relationships.

So I'm not surprised that those at the very top of the scale in terms of physical beauty would have difficulty finding good mates as the initial pool to pick from in terms of productive relationships is much smaller, even if they could truly have better chances of establishing an initial relationship with most everyone.

Weird and counter-intuitive.

[coffeeholic]

Beauty helps, but can also hurt when people make assumptions about your personality without even knowing you. It makes me feel more like an object than a person with feelings. Even if they act positively towards you because of your beauty, you always have to have the fact in the back of your mind, that many people who act like your best friends,... are only acting positively because of what they see.

[Cygnus]

I think more tradeoff, being considered attractive and give you advantages in certain context and also serve as a liablity as well. Perhaps being attractive got you a job, but now in that job you experinece unwanted attention and the expection you are there as eye candy. Being attractive my make you more approachable, but now you have more attention than you wish...Much like coffeeholic mentioned, you now have to contend with people's presumptions of being a "beautiful person".

[coffeeholic]

I think more tradeoff


I like this. There is a 'price' for everything, whether its seen or unseen.

[sintj]

I don't think it has particular value at job market. Yes, it's a good asset to look good, but I don't think it matters much at job market. At job market you need a lot of skill, both technical, in interpersonal relationships and good personality qualities that matter to the employeer. For the employeer you must be able to create value to the company.

Yes, physical attractiveness does help in building and maintaining trust (because attractive people are considered to have many positive values, like honesty), but for trust to be created and maintened several factors play a role. Psysical attractiveness helps, but not much.

Trust is very important indeed in all our relationships, both for work and in personal relationships.

Besides value exchange, trust is build and maintained on predictability, delayed reciprocity and
exposed vulnerabilities. Please read changingminds.org for more on the subject.

[Asinine]

I would assume it would depend on how difficult it is to maintain that attractiveness versus how much slack people cut them because of it.

[Cygnus]

I don't think it has particular value at job market. Yes, it's a good asset to look good, but I don't think it matters much at job market. At job market you need a lot of skill, both technical, in interpersonal relationships and good personality qualities that matter to the employeer. For the employeer you must be able to create value to the company.

Yes, physical attractiveness does help in building and maintaining trust (because attractive people are considered to have many positive values, like honesty), but for trust to be created and maintened several factors play a role. Psysical attractiveness helps, but not much.

Trust is very important indeed in all our relationships, both for work and in personal relationships.

Besides value exchange, trust is build and maintained on predictability, delayed reciprocity and
exposed vulnerabilities. Please read changingminds.org for more on the subject.

I would argue people with a very "public presence" attractiveness is considered important. I would also wager the hidious do not get hired as servers at Hooter's and as male fashion models. It is the same concept that drives dress code and general appearence, "image is everything".

[SuupaSugoi]

I think you can make the argument that in some ways they are handicapped. They're watched more carefully by their parents, probably got more help in school, they grow up being smiled at and people falling over themselves to help them. Whenever they're in a situation where they have to be independent they're at a disadvantage.

I have a petite blonde friend who tried the brunette thing for a while and said it was a night and day difference.

[CWC]

Au contraire,I have a hard time with girls coming up to ask for my number.Girls would at best only look at me from across the end of the bus or give periodic glances at me in the canteen.

Since this is a hypothetical situation based solely on physical attractiveness alone;on the other hand,I've seen peers and even strangers who severely lack points in the looks department,but yet whom are able to be involve in a relationship.
And,it doesn't help that I do not enjoy partaking in small social chat.

Therefore,I conclude that while looks may earn you the initial attention,the rest of the progress with the opposite gender eventually hinges on personality.

---------- Post added 12-16-2009 at 07:21 PM ----------

Hundreds of students stop by my window at the computer centre for help with various things. More attractive people expect special treatment - they smile, cajole, etc. and think that being cute will get them some advantage.

It doesn't work with me, but the expectation is clear.

That's funny.
Why would attractive people sell themselve?

[Wtfpeople]

This topic isnt really constructive imo, since "easier" is such a broad term. To make it even more difficult, the "goal" isnt defined easier. We dont even have a situation.

I'm making these statements under the following conditions:

1) You can only choose one "power object" at a time. Whether it's looks, money, status ect.
2) There is no real goal given for the (not mentioned) situations.
3) The objective in life is to ultimately mate successfully.

As a woman, id want to be attractive more than anything else. Being attractive will give you the most situational advantages in most of lifes encounters.

-Need money for something? Ask a guy and he'll probably buy it for you, such as pay a cab fare or buy you a drink.
-Want to get married? Even if you're dumb as fuck and poor as hell some guy somewhere will want to marry you just based on your looks.
-Need help with something? A cute girl will help her get her tire changed quite easily.

As a man, id want to be rich more than anything else. Being rich will give you the most situational advantages in most of lifes encounters.

-Need a wife? Easy. You dont need to buy one either. You can be ugly as fuck but successful/rich and find women throwing themselves at you. Sure, women wouldnt mind dating a hot guy, but if that hot guy doesnt make shit out of his life, shes going to leave.
-Need money for something? You already have it. Now, all you have to do is spend it.
-Need help with something? You're ugly? No problem! Just hire someone to tow your car, or change your tire. You have money so you can easily pay for it.

[TigerL]

.

As a woman, id want to be attractive more than anything else. Being attractive will give you the most situational advantages in most of lifes encounters.

-Need money for something? Ask a guy and he'll probably buy it for you, such as pay a cab fare or buy you a drink.
-Want to get married? Even if you're dumb as fuck and poor as hell some guy somewhere will want to marry you just based on your looks.
-Need help with something? A cute girl will help her get her tire changed quite easily.



As a woman, I'd want to be rich over attractive if it came down to these questions:

- I could pay the cab fare and buy a drink myself.
- Men still marry women who are rich even if they aren't beautiful. Discounting stars, there are wealthy women who have "boy toys" as well. Since love is besides the point here, I could also get artificial insemination/ surrogate mother/ adoption to have children.
- I can pay someone to change my tire.

Besides which beauty is fickle and fades more easily than money (if you manage money well). Getting money from a man because of beauty is already two steps away - you have to not only depend on your looks but also what men perceive as beautiful. Everyone has heard of the man dropping his first wife for the younger model (pun intended).

[Wtfpeople]

As a woman, I'd want to be rich over attractive if it came down to these questions:

- I could pay the cab fare and buy a drink myself.
- Men still marry women who are rich even if they aren't beautiful. Discounting stars, there are wealthy women who have "boy toys" as well. Since love is besides the point here, I could also get artificial insemination/ surrogate mother/ adoption to have children.
- I can pay someone to change my tire.

Besides which beauty is fickle and fades more easily than money (if you manage money well). Getting money from a man because of beauty is already two steps away - you have to not only depend on your looks but also what men perceive as beautiful. Everyone has heard of the man dropping his first wife for the younger model (pun intended).

I have to disagree because of the way each sex generally perceives the other.

Men notice beauty first.
Women notice opportunity/security first.

This is why you see ugly, but wealthy men with attractive women.

Yes, beautiful people date beautiful people and the rich and powerful date the rich and powerful. However, if a beautiful and a powerful want to date each other, it will tend to be the beautiful woman with the powerful man.

Beautiful Men
-Accesses beautiful women (even if poor)
-A beautiful man is less likely to access a powerful woman since women do not care as much about looks.

Beautiful Woman
-Accesses beautiful men (even if poor)
-Accesses powerful men (even if ugly)

Powerful Men
-Accesses beautiful women (even if poor)
-Accesses powerful women (even if ugly)

Powerful Woman
-Accesses powerful men (even if ugly)
-A powerful woman is less likely to have access to a beautiful man since men are more motivated by looks.

[Dru]

Back in the day, I worked at a very upscale restaurant....the owner, very cleverly, had an agreement with Ford Models and hired "newbies" as hostesses. I went out with one (as friends) after work one night for a few drinks...it was funny, we were sitting at the bar and when she got up to use the bathroom, I shit you not, nearly every girl was starring at me and smiling. This never happens when you are alone. I was like "shit women are truly cutthroat and ruthless". I never thought about how mean other girls probably were to her...

She said that men never asked her out...they would ask for her number but never call. She was naturally, strikingly beautiful...almost looked fake. It was weird to think her looks had isolated her...but from the other end of the spectrum. You would think or project that she had this mad social life. I'm not sure she could ever initially trust someone....with her natural disposition, her looks were too upfront and intimidating. There was no way to ignore it...and nowhere for her to hide.

this is very interesting to me, and very sad, because i can kind of relate.

although i don't consider myself an overly attractive person (i have notoriously low self esteem), i immediately become suspicious of anyone who early on is overly gracious with their compliments. it's nice, to an extent, but i have to wonder why they're trying so hard to make me believe that they find me so attractive. i have no problem trusting someone until they make it known that they're interested in me. i almost have to pretend that they're not in order to maintain some level of comfort in their presence.

[ZincLysine]

This topic isnt really constructive imo, since "easier" is such a broad term. To make it even more difficult, the "goal" isnt defined easier. We dont even have a situation.

I'm making these statements under the following conditions:

1) You can only choose one "power object" at a time. Whether it's looks, money, status ect.
2) There is no real goal given for the (not mentioned) situations.
3) The objective in life is to ultimately mate successfully.

As a woman, id want to be attractive more than anything else. Being attractive will give you the most situational advantages in most of lifes encounters.

-Need money for something? Ask a guy and he'll probably buy it for you, such as pay a cab fare or buy you a drink.
-Want to get married? Even if you're dumb as fuck and poor as hell some guy somewhere will want to marry you just based on your looks.
-Need help with something? A cute girl will help her get her tire changed quite easily.

As a man, id want to be rich more than anything else. Being rich will give you the most situational advantages in most of lifes encounters.

-Need a wife? Easy. You dont need to buy one either. You can be ugly as fuck but successful/rich and find women throwing themselves at you. Sure, women wouldnt mind dating a hot guy, but if that hot guy doesnt make shit out of his life, shes going to leave.
-Need money for something? You already have it. Now, all you have to do is spend it.
-Need help with something? You're ugly? No problem! Just hire someone to tow your car, or change your tire. You have money so you can easily pay for it.

Many beautiful girls have tried to get things out of me and all have failed. You under-estimate male intelligence. I went to a college where its 80 percent men. I realised quite a few secrets to getting those few girls attention in an enviroment where they could be vain and thought they had their choice.

As a woman, I'd want to be rich over attractive if it came down to these questions:

- I could pay the cab fare and buy a drink myself.
- Men still marry women who are rich even if they aren't beautiful. Discounting stars, there are wealthy women who have "boy toys" as well. Since love is besides the point here, I could also get artificial insemination/ surrogate mother/ adoption to have children.
- I can pay someone to change my tire.

Besides which beauty is fickle and fades more easily than money (if you manage money well). Getting money from a man because of beauty is already two steps away - you have to not only depend on your looks but also what men perceive as beautiful. Everyone has heard of the man dropping his first wife for the younger model (pun intended).

I respect this attitude way more. Though, wonder if you expect the guy you're with to out do you even. If not, cool. If so, damn, he has to be a romantic, emotionally rock solid, sexually ravishing doctor?

Back in the day, I worked at a very upscale restaurant....the owner, very cleverly, had an agreement with Ford Models and hired "newbies" as hostesses. I went out with one (as friends) after work one night for a few drinks...it was funny, we were sitting at the bar and when she got up to use the bathroom, I shit you not, nearly every girl was starring at me and smiling. This never happens when you are alone. I was like "shit women are truly cutthroat and ruthless". I never thought about how mean other girls probably were to her...

She said that men never asked her out...they would ask for her number but never call. She was naturally, strikingly beautiful...almost looked fake. It was weird to think her looks had isolated her...but from the other end of the spectrum. You would think or project that she had this mad social life. I'm not sure she could ever initially trust someone....with her natural disposition, her looks were too upfront and intimidating. There was no way to ignore it...and nowhere for her to hide.

Whenever you're with a hot girl, other women suddenly think "what's he got that she'd be interested in him." Its probably true that she doesn't get approached either. All my guy mates always say they prefer talking to "average" women because they're easier to talk to. I find it really hard to talk to average women on the other hand. If I had to guess, they get approached by enough men that resembles what they want they feel they can discard me as an option. So I usually talk to really attractive girls and am very successful. I'm apparently one the few guys who give them time. Oh woe is me. Oh wait, no. Suddenly those average girls will talk to me. Funny no?

[Luciferi]

I've experienced both sides of this.

As a kid and a teenager, I was not attractive. I would even say for a while I was just ugly. I got picked on a lot in school, to the point where I even left for a year because I couldn't take the bullying anymore. I don't know if the bullying was because I was ugly (although I noticed ugly kids were exclusively the targets of bullies) or for other reasons and my ugliness just happened to be the easiest inspiration for taunts.

Somewhere in my early 20s, I suddenly stopped being ugly. I grew into my body, I took better care of myself, I dressed better, I lost a lot of weight. Then people started telling me I was pretty or that I should be a model. A complete turn around.

Now, the truth of the matter is, I think I will always see myself as being fat and ugly. Objectively, I can look in the mirror and see what other people might find attractive about me, but it doesn't change the way I feel on the inside. Couple that with the fact that a few years ago, I was in a bad car accident that left me with a lot of scarring on my face. Yeah,my surgeon was great and no one can even see it anymore unless I point it out to them, but I know it's there and it is one more thing that makes me self-conscious.

So on that note, I would like to address specifically the point someone made that attractive people are more confident and that that is why they get things. I can only speak for myself here, but I have to say that many times I do not feel confident at all. I am just extremely good at putting on an act. I'm firm believer of the "fake it til you feel it" philosophy.

In terms of real, tangible benefits, yes, they exist. My boss told me flat out that he recruited me for two reasons: 1) He thinks I am good looking and 2) he was impressed by my writing skills. He frequently reminds me of the first point, often saying that if I ever get fat or ugly, he won't have a use for me anymore. It sounds shallow, but I guess I can understand where he is coming from. He wants to create a certain image for himself and part of that image involves having a beautiful assistant. I'm sure he is not the only one out there like that. I have also done the occasional modeling job, nothing big time or anything like that, but modeling qualifications are, by definition, usually based purely on physical attractiveness.

However, there are definitely some downsides to being perceived as attractive, and I would even venture so far as to say, particularly so for blonde women. Someone else mentioned that because she is cute, blonde, and has a bubbly personality that people don't always take her seriously. I have exactly the same problem. People take one look at you and think you are like some airhead Barbie or something.

I used to ride the bus to commute and let's just say, where I live, the bus does not attract a lot of educated, high class people, but rather the typical drunken sports fan type of people. It was always obvious to me that when the latter approached me in a propositional fashion that they were always surprised that I didn't respond to them in typical airhead fashion. I remember vividly one guy who commented that he thought I was "smokin'" until he saw I was reading. !!! Go figure.

I had several professors who were surprised at the quality of work I turned in because I guess they assumed that a pretty blonde woman who made an effort to dress fashionably was not going to be a stellar student. I actually had one professor call me into his office once after I handed in the first assignment of the semester to tell me I got the best grade in the class and to apologise to me for having privately thought I was going to be one of the worst students and probably the kind who would only show up for tests. Another professor I had, who was known for being a hardass and taking pleasure in failing students, was just really hostile to me the first two weeks of class, until we had to had in all our assignments and take the first quiz. I guess he was impressed because we later became good friends and he once told me that he is always mean to the pretty girls because if they are slackers- and most of them are, in his opinion- he wants them to drop the class right away.

I guess that is my long-winded, anecdotal, and roundabout way of saying that in many cases, the more attractive you are, the harder you have to work to earn respect from your peers and your superiors. If you're not attractive or just average or whatever, you start from zero with other people and earn respect from there. I have often felt that, with people who perceive me as being attractive, that I have to start in the negatives when it comes to earning respect and being taken seriously.

Sometimes I think I'd rather have respect than superficial favours...

[DanteFalling]

I have to disagree because of the way each sex generally perceives the other.





I agree with your "generally," but I know that I notice intelligent and beautiful men first. I want money, but the idea of having it only through someone else makes me feel LESS secure and less powerful.

If we stayed married, I might resent not making in the same ballpark.
If we were to divorce: he could easily hire a better lawyer, get my kids, etc.

[Onigumo13]

I have to disagree about that because some men and women prefer 10s a bit more because they have that burning desire that only a kiss can put out a mysterious fire passion . " but sadly they are afraid to admit it "

[Wtfpeople]

Many beautiful girls have tried to get things out of me and all have failed. You under-estimate male intelligence. I went to a college where its 80 percent men. I realised quite a few secrets to getting those few girls attention in an enviroment where they could be vain and thought they had their choice.


Well, obviously I dont fall for gold diggers. When I say "beautiful girls get things" it's simply a generalized statement that a beautiful girl would get more assistance with things, whether is a seat on a bench you have up for her, a changed tire, or at the extremes marrying a very rich person and getting a whole lifestyle out of it.

I agree with your "generally," but I know that I notice intelligent and beautiful men first. I want money, but the idea of having it only through someone else makes me feel LESS secure and less powerful.


That's why this discussion is more difficult.

There are no specific "situations" or specific people.

[TigerL]

[
Beautiful Men
-A beautiful man is less likely to access a powerful woman since women do not care as much about looks.

Powerful Woman

-A powerful woman is less likely to have access to a beautiful man since men are more motivated by looks.

My preference for money over looks works for me partly for the reason you bold (although I'm still working on the power part!). I can see a attractive man and objectively admire his beauty, just as I would a beautiful woman, but I don't have the overwhelming desire to have him based just on looks.

Second point, I would also put forth that powerful women have the means to look good, whether that be through surgery, clothes, make-up, personal trainers, etc. and captivate those men motivated by looks. But they can choose or not choose to do so.



I respect this attitude way more. Though, wonder if you expect the guy you're with to out do you even. If not, cool. If so, damn, he has to be a romantic, emotionally rock solid, sexually ravishing doctor?



Thanks. On the money part, not really - I think having your own money gives you more freedom to choose your mate without financial security being a big factor. But I'm not going to complain if you make more than I do. I don't ask but I have had men tell me how much they make, how much they inherited, etc. The idea that they can buy my affection is a bit insulting to me.

Being a doctor - not a huge factor. But romantic, emotionally rock solid, sexually ravishing, yes! This is fair - I'm not asking for traits I don't have or can't develop.

[Asinine]

[
Thanks. On the money part, not really - I think having your own money gives you more freedom to choose your mate without financial security being a big factor. But I'm not going to complain if you make more than I do. I don't ask but I have had men tell me how much they make, how much they inherited, etc. The idea that they can buy my affection is a bit insulting to me.


I find the meme that men must buy affection from women to be insulting as well.

...base a relationship on money?
...base it on beauty?
...base it on sex?
...base it on worship?
...base it on fun?

Then, do not be surprised when the relationship falls apart after those fade away.

[ctclough]

I would like to say that it wouldn't matter. However, if an obese person presents looking for a job, it seems like out-of-control weight would not "weigh" in their favor. One would wonder if they are food addict or if they have health issues that are not being addressed. I think people generally question how they can take care of their job responsibilities if they can't take care of themselves.

If one is of a normal weight, with no physical abnormalities, attractiveness is usually a simple matter of grooming. Now maybe we ladies have the edge here, since we can use cosmetics and attractive, complex hairstyles to our advantage!

OTOH, attractive people who obsesses about their looks can be unsatisfied and unhappy despite personal success. There is always somebody more attractive, isn't there. Look at those crazy surgery-happy celebrities that become unrecognizable after multiple surgeries.

It's good to take care of one's self, but not to the point that it becomes dysmorphic.

[EricJ]

I was watching a program on Current TV. A British woman decided to test whether or not her personal appearance affected the willingness of people to give her free things. Whenever she put more effort into her personal appearance, she accumulated a free glass of champagne, cake from a bakery, a carriage ride, ice cream, a bus ride, etc. Whenever she tried the same thing the next day with her "less attractive" appearance, the only thing she got was a free pint from a man whom she helped in a bar.

So, in her case, physical attraction certainly played a part in her successes.

[Evangelist]

I am overweight. In some communities, I have found that being black and overweight is not as bad. At home, black women tend to carry weight a little differently. We may have a huge behind and hips which some men think are attractive even though you are overweight. I have also noticed that African American communities can favor lighter skin people over darker skin people. In Caucasian communities, my hair and skin color are irrelevant. At home, people constantly remark about my color. Some mothers have even preferred their sons to date light skinned girls so that their children are light. My last fella was really into my hair and skin. At home, my weight is shifted so that I am still a big girl, but most of my weight is in my backside and breast. That still is downright sexy, but when I am out among many cultures, I am just fat. Years ago, my best friend was white and we wore the same size. Her family always missed her size and they completely obsessed about her weight. In my family, having a little, "junk in the trunk" was alright.

[blatant]

Yes and no.

No:
I'm Asian American and I can tell you that aside from other INTJ Asian women or ones with the same hobbies as me (and live largely outside the patriarchal sphere of influence), they don't like me. They literally take one look at me and seethe.
Insecure women don't like me since they think I have it better than them.
The attention can get annoying (mostly it's the staring in my case, I'm not social enough to attend parties where people can chat me up).
You get hit on during awkward situations when you're not in the mood.

Yes:
Looking in the mirror is fun.
People remember you.
People are attracted to you.
People are fascinated by you.
You get more attention.
You can make lots of money off of your looks if you're smart about it.


THIS, btw, is from a female POV. I would say that physically attractive men have it the best. If I could live out the rest of my days as an attractive, white, heterosexual man, I probably would.

[dead]

Oh, definitely! Well, personally I'm shallow and judge everyone on their looks. But I think it goes without saying that it gives you certain advantages. It's not like less attractive people can't get by; basically anyone can if they're smart about it. But looks always help. And it isn't like there's one universal standard. I'm in college studying math and physics, and I've always been a good nerd magnet - but in other communities people might think I don't wear enough makeup, my hair isn't blonde, my boobs aren't big enough. Certain walks of life demand a certain look more than others.

[dmouth11]

this was actually a topic on Nip/Tuck tonight. A stunningly beautiful female wanted plastic surgery to make her look average so that people could finally take her seriously and whatnot.

Speaking as a male, I have always been referred to as "cute" or "handsome" but because I had a very long awkward adolescent phase (really skinny, braces, mild acne) I still have self esteem issues about my appearance. When I put a lot of effort into it for a special occasion I can look quite striking and dapper, but on a regular basis I still feel slightly above average.

However, people still treat me as if I'm really intimidating and stuck up. My direct speaking style and education is part of it, but on top of being conventionally handsome AND an INTJ i'm not surprised.

I do think attractive folks have it hard in some capacities.

[ya lyublyu tebya]

*sigh* It's a spectrum. I was bullied viciously in school, and I can almost guarantee that had I been overweight and had frizzy hair and glasses, I would have gotten more help. At least somebody would have cared, rather than me having to beg the principal every day to just make them stop and be brushed off nine times out of ten. But nooo, I was skinny and cute and wore skirts and pretty shoes, so I had to fend for myself. Never mind the fact that that's exactly what I was tormented on so much for. I still can't go into a store without getting dirty looks and being pointed and whispered and laughed at. If they could beat me unconscious, strip me down, and sew a pair of designer jeans and a logo t-shirt into my skin, I'm sure they would be ecstatic. ...Okay, that was gory; sorry about that.

Then, there are the people who assume I have nothing but air between my ears because of my looks.

Being unconventional always overrides anything else. If you're pretty, but not the slightest bit social, don't like any of the same things "normal" people like, and refuse to take part in others' mindless gossiping and backstabbing and bullying, you'd might as well not be pretty at all.

...Then, there are the stalker fanboys. Oh, God, the stalker fanboys. *shudder*

So, I think it's different for everyone. Probably, someone considered "unattractive" who knows how to play the game of "normal" people's social niceties would probably have a better time than someone considered "attractive" who doesn't want to bother. Of course, there are way too many variables to be able to say for certain. ...I'm going to go get some tea before I stab something, now.

[MassHysteria]

Yes.

You see it everywhere, in studies both formal and informal. And based on my own experience, it is absolutely undeniably true. I can share a little, if anyone would indulge me by pretending to be interested.



Like most females, my attractiveness varies wildly, depending on dozens of factors (how much makeup I'm wearing, what my hair is doing, how I'm dressed, how I feel, whether Venus is in retrograde, etc). My weight also yo-yos crazily; I graduated high school at 5'5'', 220 pounds. Two years later I was 5'6'', 145 pounds. Today I am 5'6'', 185 pounds, down from 202 three months ago and hopefully on my way back to 150 by June.

People treat me MUCH differently when I get prettyfied.

1.) When I put some maintenance into it, I get a lot of attention, mostly from older men/foreign men. It's all fun and games at the club until the Festrunk brothers show up and start grinding on you. I was once trapped near the front on a crowded bus, and the driver spent my entire forty-five minute ride telling me about his six grown children... then asked for my number at my stop. I slipped on the sidewalk in the financial district on a rainy day and multiple gray-haired gentlemen in suits swarmed to my aid. I'm not bragging (or am I?) but these are the facts, ma'am.

2.) When I just clean up and shove out, it's another world. I'm a natural blonde, so my eyelashes and brows are nearly transparent--without makeup, I look like a pink bunny. I fall into the ''cute tomboy'' category, and usually get a lot of attention from college-age guys who wear a lot of skull caps, play a lot of video games and speak almost entirely in pop culture references. The rest of the world treats me with polite indifference.

3.) When I'm sick, scrubbin' it, or my weight is on the high end again, I am ignored until I speak directly to someone. At that, their responses are a little short, as if they just want to get rid of me. ...Of course my perception may be tainted because I get a little cranky when I'm not feeling well, dressed like a schlub, or depressed because I've gotten fat again.


Statistics backed up by anecdotal evidence? I'm ready to chalk this one up as a truth.

[Lucius]

My beauty results in jealousy of others; though unwanted, not unpleasant.

[Tyrant Soup]

Physically attractive people induce the production of pleasure chemicals in others without having to expend any effort. So of course life is easier. Isn't it amazing how valuable a thin layer of fat on one's face can be?

[Ted]

I didn't read through all the posts yet and I'm not 100% sure what I'm about to say is true...
but in theory, don't attractive people fall victim to more harassment as well, particularly more seriously cases such as rape. I reckon the majority of rape victims are at least decent looking as opposed to butt ugly.

Overall though, their lives are still easier for sure as long as they don't go through a life scarring moment, or just don't get scarred by it.

[BlackOp]

The fundamental question is...if you could CHOOSE, what would you pick? The answer lies there...

[zibber]

"Physically attractive" is a deceptive phrase. "In tune with image conventions" is better.

(I have definitely noticed that when I take care to look like I'm "supposed to", I will get more attention and a more favorable response from many.)

[Tough Love]

Im not sure, and i dont know if this is relevant, but i have heard that a woman who wears perfume to a job interview with are less likely to get the job, than a woman who doesnt. Ide be interested to see what the deal with men and cologne is.

[ZincLysine]

Im not sure, and i dont know if this is relevant, but i have heard that a woman who wears perfume to a job interview with are less likely to get the job, than a woman who doesnt. Ide be interested to see what the deal with men and cologne is.

Interesting you say that. I was worried about offending for my interviews, so I went without aftershaves and deodrant.

I worse shirt underwear insted. It catches up all the sweat and lets me get away with smelling neutral. I passed all my face to face interviews fine.

[Kisai]

Being handsome and tall and smart rocks!

[solitaryplace]

Yes, they do. There's a book called "Blink" that is all about the stereotypes you can make in a blink of an eye (unintentionally). Here's the link
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Click on demonstration, and you can see if you are unintentionally biased against all sorts of people. These biases can subconciously affect our decisions on numbers of things, such as hiring and dating.

[Thinktress]

I think yes in terms of opening the door for you and getting assistance when you need it. I would have to say that being physically attractive doesn't really help that much in the relationship department. There are so many other important factors there...

[emma4enriquexx]

Well, it depends what is considered attractive. Someone one person finds attractive might be considered average by another. Also a lot of people who most people find attractive are insecure about their own looks. Answering the question, I think people who are "attractive" may also have problems because people of their same sex may get jealous. I suppose people who are often considered attractive would have more confidence so make a better impression at job interviews.

[Aurelia]

In general I believe so. Not among women though. One of my coworkers is smart, hardworking and models in her spare time. The two women she works with make it so difficult for her. What adds insult to injury is that she doesn't need to work. Her hubby makes six figures so it seems her coworkers feel she should have a hard time at work.

[Exsuscito]

Well I'm pretty sure I'm what they call physically attractive. My ex has told me such and even admitted it played a part in the relationship. I do have a very nice job and I'm happy with it, but that's definitely not because of my appearance it's because of my confidence and probably a bit of my charisma.

But the thing is I'm not getting out of life the things most important to me. An attractive guy can have all the attention from women, their admiration, their infatuation, yes even their lust, and be completely disinterested in any of it.

I think it will appear as though attractive people have it easier unless you realize that they do not share your goals in life. Not all of us want a ton of money, admiration, and easy-living.

[The Drifter]

There is nothing that anyone could say to convince me that pretty people don't have easier lives.

[Axel]

Beautiful people get alot more attention. Attention can be good or bad. Most of the time it simply results in more contacts with other people (read opportunities), and that is a HUGE advantage.

[Tough Love]

Beautiful people get alot more attention. Attention can be good or bad. Most of the time it simply results in more contacts with other people (read opportunities), and that is a HUGE advantage.

Attention also breeds expectation.