Gambling On Random Chance

[Zodd]

What is it with gambling that some people can make such bad decisions or seem to have fun in it.
Like slotmachines, commonly believed they are fixed, yet some people still put money in it?
"Everything can happen!" they say. But you'll most likely lose money. "yeah yeah but anything can happen!"
When watching pro poker you see an amazing amount of BIG mistakes, people playing very lowchance hands in realy bad situations, making very nihil chances of winning the game comparing when playing safe, I saw this happen so much. It's hard to believe they trust their feelings that they can read their opponent so good or that they think they're "lucky".
Sometimes people really come over that they actually think that they are going to be lucky, they seem crazy to me, I can't even imagine what could go on in their mind. Do you have to be an extreme SensingFeeling for that to go on in your mind for this?

POKER IS JUST A GAME WITH CHANCE IN IT, IT ISN'T GAMBLING!

[Malotis]

I was first introduced to gambling when kids on my varsity soccer team from hs got together to play poker. I won the first time I played, the second time I played, and then again on the fourth time. I found a lot of similarities between poker and games like chess and other online computer games that I played (starcraft), and caught on to betting patterns, pot odds, and the overall demeanor of other players pretty quickly making me confident enough to try playing elsewhere. From that point onwards I told myself I wouldn't gamble away anymore than what I won on these occasions. Not yet being 21, at this point I started playing games wherever I could find them being played; bars, synagogs, bowling allies, horse tracks and a couple privatly hosted games. My primary source of income today comes from poker.

With that said, let me say that gambling is both dangerous, addictive and intense beyond measure, and it's not something I'd recommend to anyone. However, IMO, you'll be hard pressed to find something that will make you feel better than when you gamble and win big.

[hagandazs]

I don't go to a casino for the purpose of trying to make money, I don't even go often anyway. But on the occasion that I do go, I treat it like any other night out for entertainment. Once I lose my money, I'm done and I wait around until friends are done too. I don't see it any different than spending a night at the bar, I'll end up spending the same money anyway.

Poker (more specifically, texas hold em) on the other hand, I enjoy much more. It is partially luck, but its a game of strategy, risk management, manipulation. Its pretty complex. I've played for many years and I'm still average or slightly above average at best. I have some predictable tells that I can't avoid sometimes.

[Felidae]

I played slotmachines once. And I won about seven dollars. I play poker just for fun (e.g. 5 people playing, 5th owes the 1st two dozens of beer, 4th owes second a dozen and 3rd does nothing). It's definetly much more skill than luck.

[Night Runner]

Gambling can be one of the most expensive hobbies... For example, a night of drinking probably won't cost more than $50-100, but one can gamble that away in less than an hour (or in a matter of minutes, depending on the person).

Slot machines are a strange phenomenon. They utilize applied psychology that encourages people to play (loud noises, bright lights, entertainment value on animated machines) and not to cash out (some machines make you wait up to a minute if you hit the "collect winnings" button). While the odds in a slot machine are definitely stacked against the player, it also provides an opportunity other games don't: The Jackpot! :cheesy: Play as often as you can, waste paycheck after paycheck (and don't forget those "free" drinks!) and maybe, someday, you'll luck out and win - just like all those people whose pictures hang around casinos. :rolleyes:

Some people overestimate their intelligence and think they can beat the house by utilizing some sort of a system. Needless to say, most of the time that doesn't work... An acquaintance of mine is an expert in statistics and knows how to bet in craps in order to maximize his advantage. Usually the crowd goes wild when he plays. I used to be a somewhat of a prodigy in math. I didn't develop this ability too much, but I can count cards with the best of them. Every now and then, I hit up the blackjack tables for some pocket money. :cool: (Do it too much and too often, and you'll be on their radar.)

[daydreamer]

the best way to make money gambling is by betting on the horses ;)

[INTJoe]

POKER IS JUST A GAME WITH CHANCE IN IT, IT ISN'T GAMBLING!

I don't know if you are being serious or facetious here, but poker is a beatable game. It is gambling, but if you play against inferior opponents, it is gambling with an edge, over the long-term.

Unless you are playing in a casino with too high a rake, which is a bad idea. But aside from the rake, poker is a zero-sum game, in which everyone has equal probability of winning. So the winners can only make money off the bad players' poor decisions. Just like in real life. If everyone played perfect poker, only short-term luck would render winners and losers, but over the long-run things would tend to balance out. The good news is people don't play perfect poker.

[hagandazs]

Oh for me I usually don't spend more than $100 anyway. If I lose it in 2 seconds at a craps table, so be it. Even poker, when I know I'm sitting down with a bunch of drunk loose players, I won't spend more than $100 at a 1-2 no limit table. I'm just not comfortable spending anything more than that.

Yeah, slots are just weird. I don't understand why so many people play. Even if the payout was good, it is so repetitive and boring.

I hear that baccarat has the best odds of any casino game? I think the house has a 52% of winning all non-tie hands. But I guess they tilt the odds in their favor by taking commission when you win.

---------- Post added 12-02-2009 at 09:14 PM ----------

Yup, if you played at a limit Hold Em table purely based on pot odds and numbers, you will win in the long term. But I find that is pretty boring, just grinding it out.

That's why I like no limit games. Player's personalities and skill affect the game a lot more. You can influence someone else's decisions a lot more (and them to you) since the bets aren't capped.

[Zodd]

betting also isn't gambling IMO

[daydreamer]

how is betting different than gambling?

[Zodd]

I don't know if you are being serious or facetious here, but poker is a beatable game. It is gambling, but if you play against inferior opponents, it is gambling with an edge, over the long-term.

Unless you are playing in a casino with too high a rake, which is a bad idea. But aside from the rake, poker is a zero-sum game, in which everyone has equal probability of winning. So the winners can only make money off the bad players' poor decisions. Just like in real life. If everyone played perfect poker, only short-term luck would render winners and losers, but over the long-run things would tend to balance out. The good news is people don't play perfect poker.

Your totally right. But you'll allways need a pokerface and the ability to read your oponents? That's where I'm coming from.

---------- Post added 12-03-2009 at 05:27 AM ----------

how is betting different than gambling?

In betting you can weigh things against eachother to decide the most likely outcome.

[INTJoe]

In betting you can weigh things against eachother to decide the most likely outcome.

It's still considered gambling.

[Zodd]

I think it shouldn't, they should have a different name for it since it isn't a coin flip.

[INTJoe]

The point is you are still taking a gamble. You are gambling that you know more information than your opponent. Or that the star Quarterback doesn't get hurt in the first quarter, etc.

It wouldn't be considered gambling if you knew the outcome, not if you think you know the "most likely" outcome. It's still gambling, even if odds are give. 3-1 etc.

Not all gambling has to be a "coinflip".

[Zodd]

It is what I meant when I started this thread though. When betting on sports you need to consider every factor that can influence what the outcome will be, roulette is just random, a whole different game but yes both are gambling.

[INTJoe]

Yeah but when you bet on sports, you are choosing a side of the handicapped line that a handicapper has set. So hypothetically it's still a coinflip gamble, unless you just find an arbitrage or you believe the handicapper is retarded.

Like if the Patriots are -3 at home versus the Saints, you pick a side. The handicapper is giving the Saints 3 points. It's not like you're just picking the winner, knowing that the Pats are favored. You have to beat the juice, and bet on the appropriate side. So it's still basically a gamble, as the line sets each time to "even" by awarding points to each side.

That isn't to say there aren't profitable gamblers out there with an edge. Of course there are. But they're still gambling (putting up their money) on a probable outcome. Gambling has a connotation of being zero-sum, which is wrong. If you only place a minimal amount of bets, and pick your gambles, you can have an edge. Like I said, if you only "gambled" when you found arbitrages, you would always win. But even still it's risky and non-practical, as the ege is always tiny in an arbitrage so you have to put a ton of money "at risk" for each bet.

It's true that nobody really has an "edge" at Roulette, because nobody has any more information than anybody else. Everyone's information begins and ends with "the ball will land in some spot."

With sports, yes, all bettors have access to different levels of information, but it's very rare that you would have access to more information than sports handicappers. So it's not enough just to have "a lot of inside information". You need to have "a lot more inside information" than the person taking your bet. So the gamble is the assumption that you possess more information than your sucker.

Fantasy Football is a good example. Tons of people play for money but the levels of information available have changed a TON since just 2003 when I first started playing. I now specifically surf internet forums on the subject and think that I am privvy to better information than most of my opponents. Sure they can turn on ESPN and peruse the internet but there is much more in-depth information out there if you dig (and are a huge nerd).

[Zodd]

But lines don't give a good explanation of how they think the odds really are but maybe more in how they think the people that are going to bet think the odds are. So you just need to know more then the most betters. So if you think your smarter then most betters you should be able to make money.

You'll win or lose on gaining information and converting that information to a most likely outcome and thats what will give you an edge which doesn't make it a zero sum anymore, IF you have what it takes. So it's human ability thats defining, completely the opposite of randomness. Just like when your not so smart as the general betters you'll just lose money probably.


But I just can't understand my friends a bit posessed behind a slot machine that's fixed probably. I can't see how you can think that's fun or believe in luck.

[daydreamer]

to your original question then why people can have fun at what you're deeming "random" gambling - if they win, they feel special, lucky, and that feels good. if they lose, they just feel like anyone else, they didn't lose because of a lack of information, or applied intelligence, just bad luck.

[Zodd]

So they don't think in money they think in emotion?
When you put it like that you have 2 positive outcomes, a positive outcome and a negative outcome with some positivity.

So they feel special, but saying they feel lucky negates that then, because when something happens because your lucky it isn't caused by yourself but randomness.