Importance of sex in a relationship?

[Antagonist]

With today's media, sex is everywhere. Sexual innuendos have leaked into shows for children, and it runs rampant in the music and movie industries. The importance of "good sex" is stressed everywhere in mainstream Western culture today, but how important is it exactly? Would you settle for "bad sex" if the partner was amazing in every other way? What about if the sex was great but your other needs weren't satisfied? Also, what is the difference to you between "bad sex," "mediocre sex," and "good sex?" I quote these because bad sex for some might be good sex to others. Also, is there any subjective significance to the phrase "if the glove fits..." to you?

In my current relationship, the sex is pretty mediocre. I've been with some sexual deviants before and I can't say that the experience was not enjoyable. However, typically my past partners who were crazy in bed were quite unstable outside and had a myriad of issues. My current SO is pretty vanilla in bed, but she's stable, has passion for life, and is generally a sweetheart when I'm not stuck in neurotic thought loops =P

Anyway, what is the importance of sex to you in a relationship? Is it possible to turn bad sex into good sex? What are your personal definitions of each?

[sunlover]

I think if either/both of the folks involved primary love language is "physical touch" it's paramount. I not, it's still important, but not nearly so.

[Blse]

Depends on each person and his/her values. Since this is an MBTI forum, I will give you the generalization made of NT Rational temperaments - generally NTs care less about excitment and more about comittment and dependability, generally NTs are into LTRs and see relationships as investments to be made wisely and do not view casual dating as fun. Again, these are generalizations - it depends on the person. Here's my take:

but how important is it exactly?

Depends on each individual; our culture tends to glorify casual sex ala Bachelor type, and paints married life as boring and sexually repressive. Ignore the mass culture IMO.


Would you settle for "bad sex" if the partner was amazing in every other way?

Yes. I would not become involve with someone I do not perceive as physically attractive but being able to have a great conversation is more important as being good in bed. Sharing the same core values is also more important.


What about if the sex was great but your other needs weren't satisfied?

No. I don't even ask girls out unless I see longer-term potential, even if they're "hot." In that sense I'm stereotypical of the NT approach to dating. It's a carefully planned move taking many variables into account and looking years into the future. There is a place for impulsive emotionalism, but deciding upon a partner ain't it. That's my take, which happens to fall in line of how Rationals are generally described in their approach to courtship.


Also, what is the difference to you between "bad sex," "mediocre sex," and "good sex?" I quote these because bad sex for some might be good sex to others. Also, is there any subjective significance to the phrase "if the glove fits..." to you?

If you ask me, no one can answer this question for you but you.


In my current relationship, the sex is pretty mediocre. I've been with some sexual deviants before and I can't say that the experience was not enjoyable. However, typically my past partners who were crazy in bed were quite unstable outside and had a myriad of issues. My current SO is pretty vanilla in bed, but she's stable, has passion for life, and is generally a sweetheart when I'm not stuck in neurotic thought loops =P

If I were you, I would stay in that relationship. In my eyes, using my values as judgement guide, I would be just fine with "vanilla in bed," if they other person is stable, comitted and caring. Breaking up because sex is too boring - although still ok - seems like pure nonsense to me (in a frank irl discussion I would use the word BS). But that's me.

[cannotseethe]

I wouldn't stay in a relationship if the sex were mediocre unless I saw the potential for that changing. I think sexual frustration can affect the rest of the relationship. I also think that fantastic sex can help a relationship through troubling circumstances that might otherwise compromise it. I view it as an important dimension of human experience that shouldn't be neglected or downplayed.

[Storm]

^But, on the same note, great sex wouldn't be the first thing I'd look for in a mate.

[Slacker]

Aside from one particular experience in which the bad sex was due to a stunning lack of skill and common sense, unsatisfactory sex was always a reflection of other, more important issues, related to trust and regard. So I would probably end a relationship that featured bad or boring sex as soon as I realized that I wasn't going to find the emotional intimacy I require. Which is to say that, no, the quality of sex isn't that important, but it's a good indicator for other aspects of a relationship which are.

[cannotseethe]

^But, on the same note, great sex wouldn't be the first thing I'd look for in a mate.

Oh, thanks for that. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I neglected that in my own experience a lot of other things have to be in place before that even becomes a question.

Going back to the OP: yes, I think you can turn mediocre sex into good sex, but I think it requires openness to the possibility. Some people have trouble talking about their sex life together at all, let alone openly acknowledging that it's not quite working and could use some work. Working on it together is half the fun.

Consider the alternative: you're thinking "our sex life is mediocre" and they're thinking "wow, we have the best sex ever!" I'd think that any sort of perceptual mismatch like that in a relationship is potentially problematic.

[Antagonist]

If I were you, I would stay in that relationship. In my eyes, using my values as judgement guide, I would be just fine with "vanilla in bed," if they other person is stable, comitted and caring. Breaking up because sex is too boring - although still ok - seems like pure nonsense to me (in a frank irl discussion I would use the word BS). But that's me.


Oh, I didn't plan on leaving it anytime soon at all. It was more of an elaboration on my opinion: great sex is great, but it's not everything. If a strong emotional connection is there, "vanilla sex" can be amazing.

I wouldn't stay in a relationship if the sex were mediocre unless I saw the potential for that changing. I think sexual frustration can affect the rest of the relationship. I also think that fantastic sex can help a relationship through troubling circumstances that might otherwise compromise it. I view it as an important dimension of human experience that shouldn't be neglected or downplayed.


I tend to view the term "mediocre" with a more positive outlook; perhaps I should have used "satisfactory" instead to be more clear. What about if the sex is good but the quantity is not enough? For instance, you and your partner have amazing sex one night a week, but he/she is not interested in it any more than that?

[cannotseethe]

I tend to view the term "mediocre" with a more positive outlook; perhaps I should have used "satisfactory" instead to be more clear. What about if the sex is good but the quantity is not enough? For instance, you and your partner have amazing sex one night a week, but he/she is not interested in it any more than that?

This might sound silly, and might not work for everyone, but it can work. Talk about sex more often. Just bring it up as a topic of conversation. Not in a critical "I wish we had more sex" sort of way. Just as something that you talk about. Ask about their fantasies, maybe, or what they like most/least about your sex life. Talking about sex can be incredibly arousing. It can be fore-foreplay.

[larkin]

I've said before, so don't mean to sound like I'm repeating myself (to those keeping such a close count of others' opinions on such things), but sex is a form of communication. If the sex is bad, and as CST says there's no potential for that changing, I'm not sure how long I would feel comfortable in a relationship like that. I don't think I would settle for a partner who was unwilling to talk about it, experiment, change things, and work to meet each other's needs better, with either issues of sexual compatibility or general compatibility.

So yes, I think things can improve, but it always starts with being open about what you need. (EDIT: again as CST says, not in a "I need sex three times a day" kind of way. But you need to explore, and chances are she does too, it's just a matter of creating an environment that encourages that.)

Along those lines, the way you phrase it sounds more like you're working out how much interest you have in someone who's stable period, who's a little more vanilla than you're used to generally. But that's in transition. Yeah, I think it's possible to find a happy medium, someone who's more emotionally balanced but still holds mystery and attraction.

[True Rune]

Asexual chiming in.. I can do without.. xD
But I'm not a romantic kind either, but they exist and they'd say the same thing.

[astrolite]

I guess I am lucky. All I have to do is breathe a suggestive, warm whisper at the nape of my girlfriend's neck and she melts. Mood seems to always dictate how good it will be... so try some seduction to drive her wild. If you continue to have mediocre sex as the norm, perhaps there is a larger issue that needs to be addressed...

[Antagonist]

I guess I am lucky. All I have to do is breathe a suggestive, warm whisper at the nape of my girlfriend's neck and she melts. Mood seems to always dictate how good it will be... so try some seduction to drive her wild. If you continue to have mediocre sex as the norm, perhaps there is a larger issue that needs to be addressed...

Haha, I wouldn't even know where to start when it comes to seduction. Definitely not one of my strengths =/

[larkin]

Haha, I wouldn't even know where to start when it comes to seduction. Definitely not one of my strengths =/

Start with: talking and touching. For most people, especially those in a relationship, it's (usually) not a thing where you have to buy her a dozen roses or anything. Just talking to someone while you're touching them is often enough.

[cannotseethe]

Haha, I wouldn't even know where to start when it comes to seduction. Definitely not one of my strengths =/

Sounds like a worthwhile self-improvement project.

Just to be clear, it's not about picking up random women. It's about learning what really does it for your girlfriend and you. Everyone is different, so it is about experimenting and learning.

[Zombicide]

I don't care for sex, and by that I mean coitus or penetration or even worse, the disgusting things that people are into and consider sex or part of sex. Fantasy-wise sex is wonderful but real sex creeps me the fuck out and I'd prefer she not lie to me about her sexuality to keep the relationship going or whatever. There's a lot of other cool things we can do, including things akin to sex but no, sex itself is not necessarily important for me.

[Myotis]

Lol at sex between 2 humans, we already all know that you can't rely on anyone to do anything right.

All I need is one hand and one brain.

[astrolite]

Haha, I wouldn't even know where to start when it comes to seduction. Definitely not one of my strengths =/

If you don't mind sharing... how do you usually engage sexual interest - or your girlfriend to you? Do you just saying "hey, it's Wednesday, let's f!@$" or is there a ritual/routine?

I've found that a lot of people like spontaneity, so keeping her guessing can also be a huge turn-on. Confidence is also a key... speak your words as if it WILL happen.

And for humor: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[JustMel]

I'm in agreement with CST and Storm's first replies. It's important to me to be sexually compatible and I have no intention of settling for someone who is mediocre in bed unless they're willing to learn.

Tantric Sex is a good book on the subject.

[Bluesea]

I think sex is a dimension of a romantic relationship that defines it as different from other intimate relationships and is an important thing to pay attention to, and to devote time and energy to just like any other part of a relationship. It wanes and changes through time and some people can get stuck in a rut and find it hard to talk to each other about it. If this part of the relationship is seen as less important or less relevant by one partner, and not another, this can lead to tensions that spill out into other areas of the relationship or could lead to one person making decisions to get releases in other ways outside the relationship. I think we need to take care of relationships we value, and put things into them to keep them interesting, evolving, satisfying and keep the communication about this going. I think it is common for people to just think everything will work itself out or be ok, just merely by being in the relationship together. I think this idea comes from the fairy story scenario - they fell in love "and lived happily ever after". All the detail about the process is in the falling into love and declaring a commitment, then the story ends, as if that is all that needs to happen. Whether we realise it consciously or not, some of these early stories or social messages have sewn expectations and blind spots in our awareness so we forge blindly on. Then real experiences teach us that things are otherwise later on, which helps our awareness grow about what we could have done instead.

I think good relationships, and good sex, are qualitatively different than bad ones partly because people are choosing to do different things, choosing to communicate differently about what is happening and their needs, and are investing in the situation more deliberately and consciously to maintain and/or grow what they want the relationship / sex life to be.

That being said - if you are both happy about it, however you are just wondering about whether you should be or not - as you have heard of, or perceive that better sex than what you currently have might exist - this process could in itself result in some dissatisfaction emerging, if you decide from this that you should be having better sex than you are? With media and people sharing experiences it can be natural to compare our experiences with what we observe others having and drawing a conclusion from it. I guess I would ask you why you are asking this question of yourself at the moment and what is at the end of the road when you explore that pathway of thought? Do you want confirmation or change?

Is it possible to turn bad sex into good sex?

I definitely think you can improve things, however both parties need to be equally into this and comfortable with the process. I think it is wise to consider your partner's sexual self esteem and make sure you broach it in a way that does not result in a knock in confidence or sew seeds of doubt - as this can then impact negatively on her sexual self expression. There are heaps of resources out there to explore and much fun to be had in the exploration.

I guess what I am saying is, for me, I don't think it is something to sacrifice in favour of another part of the relationship. If other parts are good, great. However I would focus on improving the sex, so that the whole thing is great, as I would not want the relationship to deteriorate over time or be lost by neglecting this area. I do think though, that good sex can cover a bad relationship and keep people going for a while either until they end it or work through the difficult patch. So all in all, I think it is important.

[Antagonist]

If you don't mind sharing... how do you usually engage sexual interest - or your girlfriend to you? Do you just saying "hey, it's Wednesday, let's f!@$" or is there a ritual/routine?

I've found that a lot of people like spontaneity, so keeping her guessing can also be a huge turn-on. Confidence is also a key... speak your words as if it WILL happen.

And for humor: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Lately I haven't engaged at all. 90% of the time I'm shot down and feel like a fool, so I've stopped completely. The other 10% of the time it feels like she's just going through the motions out of necessity for the relationship.

When she initiates, she usually just jumps me. The only time she kisses me passionately is before we have sex, so once there's any tongue involved I know what's going on and it just happens.

In the beginning we were both horndogs and jumped each other all the time. Now I hardly feel like she's attracted to me at all. When we do have sex it's not bad, I mean we both get off most of the time, but it feels like something is missing. I don't feel like she's that attracted to me anymore. Whenever a "hot" guy is on TV she hoots and hollers, and she tells me about how she gets smitten with shyness and turns red whenever whenever a military man in uniform or a fireman comes into her workplace. However, with me, I just don't feel like the attraction is there.

Maybe the flame has just burned out and it's time for me to move on.... I've posted a lot about my (perceived) relationship problems on this board before, perhaps I'm putting too much energy into it? I've been feeling more drained and less motivated than ever lately....

[TigerL]

Antagonist, I haven't kept track of your posts but it sounds like your problems are less about sex and more about the relationship in general.

From what I know, women who feel more secure/ loved/ supported (this comes down to even things like taking out the garbage, helping with the kids,etc.) in a relationship are more likely to be sexually engaged with their partners.

Sex is not high up on my list of priorities although attraction is there somewhere; my thought is anything can be improved if you are committed and put effort into it.

[Antagonist]

Antagonist, I haven't kept track of your posts but it sounds like your problems are less about sex and more about the relationship in general.

From what I know, women who feel more secure/ loved/ supported (this comes down to even things like taking out the garbage, helping with the kids,etc.) in a relationship are more likely to be sexually engaged with their partners.

Sex is not high up on my list of priorities although attraction is there somewhere; my thought is anything can be improved if you are committed and put effort into it.

The funny thing is, I do everything in my power to show that I care for her. I give her massages spontaneously, rub her feet after a long day, among other things. It sort of seems like she's just with me for the security.... Maybe I'm just insecure? It feels like one of those brother/sister type relationships.

I've asked her if there's anything she's unsatisfied about in our sex life and she said everything is great, but I don't believe her for some reason. If everything was great then why would she seem so disinterested? I've pressed the issue to gain no further ground. We have deep conversations about personal issues and the commitment is there, it just feels like the passion has died. Any tips on how to reignite the spark? Lately I've been conflicted about where this is going, and I've almost given up hope. Sometimes I think it would just be easier to sever and move on with life than to just keep going through this cycle.

[TigerL]

It sounds like you are trying but she doesn't want to delve into the conversation with you. And it's hard to force it if the other person isn't interested.

You might have already done this but try to be as blunt and direct about your concerns with her as possible. Start with something positive, like "I love how we can have deep conversations about personal issues, etc." and go from there. Have there been any changes in your situation?

No need to elaborate here if you don't want to but some people lose their interest in their mate if he/she gains/loses too much weight/ job pressures/ interested in someone else, etc.

"Re-igniting the spark" - there are lots of books out there about maintaining a long-term relationship and you could probably check one out from the library. But the bottom line is you wil have to individualize the methods for you and her. How about thinking about some circumstances where you were both feeling great and trying to replicate them?

[Vagrant]

I think if either/both of the folks involved primary love language is "physical touch" it's paramount. I not, it's still important, but not nearly so.

I think sunlover brings up a great point here.

It depends on what each party finds important as communicating their caring for each other. If their love language is physical touch, then yes, sex would be crucial. If their love language is doing kind things for each other, then it wouldn't be as important.

I know that physical touch is very important to me in a relationship. So yes, good sex would be important.

[thod]

Lately I haven't engaged at all. 90% of the time I'm shot down and feel like a fool, so I've stopped completely. The other 10% of the time it feels like she's just going through the motions out of necessity for the relationship.

When she initiates, she usually just jumps me. The only time she kisses me passionately is before we have sex, so once there's any tongue involved I know what's going on and it just happens.

Clearly she is dominant in the relationship, she uses your dick when the mood takes her, which is not often enough for you. This is major cause of affairs and divorce as you respond to the advances of other women. Clearly she thinks you are either not attractive or too timid to respond to other women.

The fact is that the most women do not feel the 'need' to have have sex as frequently as men. For this reason many women adopt an 'open legs' policy whereby their man can fuck them whenever he pleases. It ensures he stays happy and removes the threats from rival women.

You are going to have to 'man up' and change the relationship. Lets face it, it takes 10 minutes for a quickie fuck. If she wishes to regard it as just another necessary household chore, then so be it. If she shows no regard for your needs, then the relationship is ending. I have met now divorced women that thought their relationship had gone 'beyond' sex and almost stopped it. As all guys know, you no more stop ejaculating than you stop eating, its a bodily function for guys.

[Storm]

You are going to have to 'man up' and change the relationship. Lets face it, it takes 10 minutes for a quickie fuck. If she wishes to regard it as just another necessary household chore, then so be it. If she shows no regard for your needs, then the relationship is ending. I have met now divorced women that thought their relationship had gone 'beyond' sex and almost stopped it. As all guys know, you no more stop ejaculating than you stop eating, its a bodily function for guys.

Women never leave men. Only women are responsible when their man leaves them. Women don't have to be aroused to comfortably have sex. They are just masturbation objects. Relationships hold nothing of value for men except sex. Which is why it is women who have to do all the work if they want to keep a relationship.

/sarcasm.

[zibber]

Hate to say, but maybe it's you. Maybe talk with her some more.

Have you tried long, deliberate foreplay and a shitload of cunnilingus? I know that is MUCH appreciated by my s/o. What is your "routine"?

[Kamnak]

If sex is important to you as a love language (as Sunlover said) then that along with physical touch is how you will likely measure the "success" of your relationship.

The fact that massages / rubs don't appear to inform her of your romantic intentions makes me think that perhaps her love language is (or developed to be, as you said you both used to constantly have sex) something else. You might want to ask her what makes her feel loved or aroused and fully listen to her. She might surprise you, and she might need gentle coaching to open up, but finding out what honestly pleases her will help you a lot... and even being asked is flattering.

Any tips on how to reignite the spark?

If she's anything like me, all you need to do is pick up on something new. If she honestly is happy in the relationship, she probably has simply settled into a comfortable routine. If you want a spark, make a fire instead of moving around the same bunches of branches. Learn about something that interests you... even if it's not her thing, the fact that you're changing / evolving / becoming something more will intrigue her. It may seem a little counter-intuitive, but the fact that you know absolutely everything about each other is what makes you feel more like siblings than lovers. I'm never more fascinated with my INTJ than when he's knee-deep in some intricate project that he's enthralled with.

Passion and growth are sexy because they show that even this late in the relationship game, you're still developing as a person... and that's something women definitely like to see in a mate.

[thod]

Relationships hold nothing of value for men except sex.

You can have a great relationship, but this does not prevent your balls flooding your system with testosterone. This alters behaviour making the male more aggressive and more likely to notice every inch of female flesh. You will never understand the effects of this hormone unless you are a man. Ejaculation is the cure. Now he could just masturbate, but why keep a dog and bark yourself. Much better to find a woman that wants the same, or is at least compliant. She should notice the signs of distress that her abstention is causing in him. If she cares for him she would seek to relieve this, if only to change his mood. For me, its a deal breaker. If she will not have sex, then she has divorced me. Many legal systems recognise this fact, even the most ancient. Men are built the way they are and it cannot be changed by some virtual modern concept of sexless neuters exchanging information as a substitute for a good old fashioned fucking. In almost every sexless marriage, the man is NOT happy with it, even if she is.

[Kamnak]

In almost every sexless marriage, the man is NOT happy with it, even if she is.

It's interesting that you zoomed in on that specific part of Storm's post and ignored the rest, because that and things like this -

If she will not have sex, then she has divorced me. Many legal systems recognise this fact, even the most ancient.

kind of further support her assertion that your original post crassly made the point that women need to open their legs or GTFO.

No one here is denying that men (and I think most healthy individuals, women included) enjoy and need sex. Your posts seem to be trying to make the point that if women aren't pushing our invisible horny button that instantly turns us on then we're simply being stubborn or don't care about the man. I'm sorry, but that just isn't the case.

If the OP had come here and said "My S.O. wants sex, but I'm just not in the mood," I would hope you'd be able to think of a better solution than "Just get it up guy!" You would probably suggest that she should wear something attractive, or do a strip tease, because many men are aroused by visual stimulation. By the same token, there may be something that the OP can do to assist her in getting into the mood.

[Zsych]

I think you could talk and improve your sex life with some effort.

I personally don't consider sex that significant an issue compared to the bigger personality issues - in a long term relationship.

[JustMel]

Sex usually has cycles during a relationship. In the beginning you're having more because the relationship is new and you're discovering each other. Eventually you learn what buttons to push to get the desired effect and it becomes much more routine and at times clinical and it's just a way to get off. It doesn't have to evolve to that but most times it seems as if it does. It's up to the individuals in the relationship to keep things new, interesting and exciting by continuing to try new things.

We went 8 months with no sex after my accident and I was laid up on the couch for those months. None. He would sleep on the floor next to the couch just to be close to me because I couldn't sleep in the bed. It took a long time to get back into the swing of things after I could walk again and go back to our bed. He may have jerked off a bunch but he didn't cheat on me because I wasn't in a position to have sex. In fact he was extremely supportive and understanding.

A couple of years later we fell into a rut for a while and it was more like "oh sex. sure why not" until we were talking about when we first got together and the naughty dice we had and the grabbing each other and having sex anywhere, anytime. Obviously, with all the kids in the house he can't grab me and put me on the washing machine or strip me down in the living room and have his way with me. I can't just grab him in the shower because usually there's a little one beating on the door for something. On the rare occasions we're home together alone we're usually too tired to get into sex. We enjoy the peace and quiet. Not to say we don't take time for each other, it's just a rarity these days and we both acknowledge it. It's one of the reasons we go away for our anniversary every year and spend two nights in a hotel or rented condo at a resort.

The key is communication. You have to tell your partner how you feel and what you want/need.

I've told the story before of the old woman who was in her 70s-80s who lived next door who told me "Sex is like a 7 course meal in the beginning and you're always trying new things and seeing if you like the taste. You linger over the appetizer course and work your way through the other courses to linger over dessert. Some days you have a full course meal several times a day. As you're together longer it becomes more like the McDonald's Value Menu, quick but good and filling. You just have to remember to go out for those lingering dinners in between the trips to McDonald's."

THOD: It's not all on the woman. Women need to get off too. We sleep better, have less stress and generally are less bitchy when getting our needs met too. Statistically, more men than women refuse their partners sex these days. Men's hormones change and they get all pissy and don't want sex and they're emotional, tired, cranky and bitchy. It's called male menopause and it happens regularly. Not to mention that while a lot of people enjoy it once they get started there are times you're just too fucking tired to want to start. You know you'll enjoy it, you know you'll feel better after getting off you just are too tired to care. The other problem I see is people always comparing their relationships to others' relationships. Each relationship is unique in its own way and what works for one may not work for another. You may feel that she should have an "open legs" policy but that's insulting not only to women but to men who don't feel their woman is a sex toy to be used anytime, anywhere they choose.

People cheat far more easily these days and then want to shift the blame for the cheating onto a partner who didn't lay down and fuck when they snapped their fingers. Instead of trying to make things right in the relationship they committed themselves to they start looking for other people who are easier to deal with. People don't commit these days to forever, they commit "until I'm sick of you" and that's bullshit. The idea that "oh if it doesn't work out we can just leave one another and move on" is bullshit. Relationships are work even when there is an abundance of sex and if you don't commit to the work the sex won't matter.

This article (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) is a good read.

[Antagonist]

Physical touch is my primary love language, followed by quality time. Her primary love language is acts of service followed by quality time, with physical touch following up in third. She works full-time and goes to school full-time, so we typically never have full days together. Maybe a Sunday morning (like today, she works at 2pm), or maybe for a while in the morning if I hang around and delay my typical routine. I usually lag behind a little to spend more time with her, but if I focus on myself I'm up at 6am, at the gym by 7, and by the time I get home to shower she's up and gone already. On these kinds of days, I'll see her when she gets home at 10pm. Not the ideal situation in my opinion.

Maybe I should just focus on self-improvement? I've wanted to start boxing for the longest time but have been putting it off. This would give me something else to focus on so maybe these issues wouldn't appear so large to me.

Also, I think her sexual self-esteem is low. She let on that an ex-boyfriend put her down about her sexual bits, so it tends to be a big process of her letting me go down on her, even though I LOVE to do it. When I do, she has powerful, explosive orgasms. However, typically she only lets me go down on her after a shower. When she's REALLY in the mood I'll tease her until she's about to explode and then the sex is amazing, but the majority of the time it's just a mechanical, routine process.

How would some of you suggest that I approach this problem with her? I'm rather blunt and direct, but I'm working on this. I'm not so good with the whole "20 questions" feeler approach....

[JustMel]

I can understand the not wanting you to go down. It's not high on my list either and the reasons stem from childhood. I also have to have just had a shower or it's a no go. I think that comes from all the years of hearing guys talk about girls and complain about cleanliness on some girl they'd been with over the weekend. Not that guys don't get a funky smell too but for women it's different. I'm lucky in the respect that he doesn't get put off by my not wanting him to because with his ex she used oral as a carrot on a stick, 'If you want sex you have to perform oral now' and that eventually makes it where you don't want to at all.

Buy a copy of Tantric Sex. Then when you have some time together go through the book together and decide what you want to try. You'll end up having fun and probably laughing too.

Also in my experience when a female is constantly in "devour" mode like you described yours earlier where she jumps you it's because we want the release of orgasm without having the intimacy that comes with really good sex because we don't want to be vulnerable. Or she's afraid the relationship is in trouble and thinks that showing you how much she wants you is the answer forgetting that there's more to it and merely jumping your bones.

Sit her down and talk to her. You don't have to play 20 questions. Just ask her if she'd be willing to try somethings to help make it more enjoyable for you. Women sometimes forget that men getting off isn't all there is to sex for a guy. Sometimes yes, but sometimes you want that intimacy as well as the biological function of ejaculation.

[cannotseethe]

Also, I think her sexual self-esteem is low. She let on that an ex-boyfriend put her down about her sexual bits, so it tends to be a big process of her letting me go down on her, even though I LOVE to do it. When I do, she has powerful, explosive orgasms. However, typically she only lets me go down on her after a shower.

I've been in this same situation. We showered together constantly. It got to the point that we rarely didn't shower together. Outside of that, I had to work pretty hard to convince her to let me go down on her. It was easier when she was really turned on.

To add to what others have said, be persistent. Not in a forceful way. Just keep trying. View it as an experiment instead of a frustration. If she lets you go down on her once for every ten times you try, well, that's better than never. Maybe she'll grow more comfortable with it.

[Storm]

You can have a great relationship, but this does not prevent your balls flooding your system with testosterone. This alters behaviour making the male more aggressive and more likely to notice every inch of female flesh. You will never understand the effects of this hormone unless you are a man. Ejaculation is the cure. Now he could just masturbate, but why keep a dog and bark yourself. Much better to find a woman that wants the same, or is at least compliant. She should notice the signs of distress that her abstention is causing in him. If she cares for him she would seek to relieve this, if only to change his mood. For me, its a deal breaker. If she will not have sex, then she has divorced me. Many legal systems recognise this fact, even the most ancient. Men are built the way they are and it cannot be changed by some virtual modern concept of sexless neuters exchanging information as a substitute for a good old fashioned fucking. In almost every sexless marriage, the man is NOT happy with it, even if she is.

Women need sex too and get frusturated about not getting enough too. But people aren't always wanting to have sex. Let's pretend like you've already had sex past your "limit" and you are physically unable to get aroused and are just plain exhausted. But your partner wants sex more than you are physically able to in a day, should she adopt a "get me off or you've divorced me" policy?

Thanks for proving my point that for you, the only thing that really matters in a relationship is getting off.

[larkin]

One question: what the hell is a "primary love language"? Is that a way of saying this is what's important to her, and how she shows she cares?

I don't think it's just about self-improvement. (Although yes, stop putting off taking boxing classes.) It's about better communication with her. Why is she only comfortable with you going down on her after the shower? I think you're right that she's worried about something she hasn't expressed, so the issue becomes how to make her feel more comfortable in expressing them.

A lot of times, women don't feel comfortable talking to their partner about sexual issues because they feel like talking about those issues will make the woman feel like they're a problem the partner has to solve. Like if women don't have an orgasm every time, something's wrong with them.

Don't approach this as a problem. Talk to her in a context where you're intimate but don't necessarily have to have sex. I might just ask her directly if she enjoys someone going down on her. And if she says she does, ask her why in certain circumstances, but not others?

(I hate to throw this in the mix, but if she's working and going to school it might simply be a matter of time and energy. Sometimes a lot of foreplay isn't possible. If that's the case, if sometimes you're still having better sex with more quality time then I would focus on that, and see if you can carve out more time for it in both of your schedules. Not in a "from 7 - 730 we're having sex" way, but in a these nights we're staying in way.)

[Lockeed]

As far as I know, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, a "primary love language" is something based off a book called the "five love languages" and there is a test to help you try and figure out what is important for you. Go ahead and take it here if you want: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

And yes, as far as I know, the answer is basically saying whats important for someone, or how they will more then likely show that they care.

[wotsamattaU]

Many women will want to be perfectly fresh before allowing their S.O. to get so up close and personal with them. Maybe they've had a shower in the a.m. and you're now initiating sex in the p.m. - they may be too tired to go through the whole routine of taking another.

Simple solution - mega quick shower focusing on the top and tails. Just wash all the naughty bits, don't get the hair wet - and voila - fresh as a daisy.

It's the whole getting-your-hair-wet-thing that puts us off the extra shower - particularly if the hair is worn medium to long...it's so time consuming to dry and/or style. Too much of an effort and time commitment when you are tired at the end of your day.

Get the feet and pits...and naughty bits. You're good to go.

Such a simple change can make quite a large impact on frequency of sex. It's right up there with the 'art of the quickie'. It's all good.

[Shirley]

and she tells me about how she gets smitten with shyness and turns red whenever whenever a military man in uniform or a fireman comes into her workplace.

Perhaps this quote is an indication that she would like to dress up and roleplay with you? I couldn't say, maybe you ought to discuss with her.

[JustMel]

Perhaps this quote is an indication that she would like to dress up and roleplay with you? I couldn't say, maybe you ought to discuss with her.

Or better yet, set the scene for an epic seduction. Rose petals from the door to the bath which will be steamy and waiting for her, he can bathe her (without washing her hair as wots stated) and then lead her to the bedroom or wherever the candles and such are and then proceed to seduce her with gentle touches and kisses while not letting her touch him. He could be wearing a military outfit that you can pick up at a thrift store for next to nothing. etc, etc.

It wouldn't work for me, but for some it would.

[Antagonist]

Or better yet, set the scene for an epic seduction. Rose petals from the door to the bath which will be steamy and waiting for her, he can bathe her (without washing her hair as wots stated) and then lead her to the bedroom or wherever the candles and such are and then proceed to seduce her with gentle touches and kisses while not letting her touch him. He could be wearing a military outfit that you can pick up at a thrift store for next to nothing. etc, etc.

It wouldn't work for me, but for some it would.

I never thought of roleplaying before. Maybe we do just need to mix things up a bit. I'll put some of your guys' suggestions to the test.

Edit: Posted from my iTouch last so I had to keep it short. You say I should be able to find some sort of military dress uniform at a thrift store? What about a fire fighter uniform? Or maybe costumes for each?

[JustMel]

I never thought of roleplaying before. Maybe we do just need to mix things up a bit. I'll put some of your guys' suggestions to the test.

Edit: Posted from my iTouch last so I had to keep it short. You say I should be able to find some sort of military dress uniform at a thrift store? What about a fire fighter uniform? Or maybe costumes for each?

Check with the thrift stores first and if not check the costume shops. You can order some online (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

[Nikonman]

How important is sex to me? Fairly important, but not the most important thing in a relationship.

Would I settle for bad sex if the partner was amazing in other ways? Yes, if my partner was open to working on it.

What is the sex was great but other needs were not satisfied? I'd move on.

The difference to me between bad, mediocre, and good sex? Bad sex is when I'm thinking I'd just rather masturbate and I am doing it only out of an obligation to my partner. Mediocre sex is hard for me to define. Good sex is having a partner with whom I mesh well sexually and the sexual experiences, at times, are like fantasies coming true.

Is it possible to turn bad sex to good sex? Absolutely, but only with good communication and effort, as discussed by other posters.

---------- Post added 11-29-2009 at 10:22 PM ----------

Clearly she is dominant in the relationship, she uses your dick when the mood takes her, which is not often enough for you. This is major cause of affairs and divorce as you respond to the advances of other women. Clearly she thinks you are either not attractive or too timid to respond to other women.

Wow, those are interesting conclusions, although to put it mildly, I disagree. The woman works full time and goes to school full time! To conclude that she is the dominant one in the relationship and that "clearly she thinks you are either not attractive or too timid to respond to other women" is, in my opinion, just silly.

[admittedheretic]

Physical touch including sex is much more important to me than words of affirmation, acts of service, and gift receiving, but not as important as quality time.

I've only had one long term relationship and sexual activity was a big part of it. To me it is a pillar of trust and acceptance.

[Nikonman]

In almost every sexless marriage, the man is NOT happy with it, even if she is.

Really? Among my friends in their 40's and 50's, there are substantially more females complaining about the lack of frequent enough sex from their husbands (or a completely sexless marriage) than there are husbands making those complaints about their wives. Maybe what you say is accurate for some age groups, but it is far from it for those in the 40's and older. But I do think a fair number of women really don't hit their sexual prime until 40 or so, when they get really comfortable with their sexuality and more in tune with what they really want in bed.

---------- Post added 11-29-2009 at 10:31 PM ----------

I never thought of roleplaying before. Maybe we do just need to mix things up a bit. I'll put some of your guys' suggestions to the test.


Or even better, use your spare time to become a volunteer firefighter. Then you'll be the real thing. A lot of women do really find them attractive.

[Roxie]

Maybe I should just focus on self-improvement? I've wanted to start boxing for the longest time but have been putting it off. This would give me something else to focus on so maybe these issues wouldn't appear so large to me.

Also, I think her sexual self-esteem is low. She let on that an ex-boyfriend put her down about her sexual bits, so it tends to be a big process of her letting me go down on her, even though I LOVE to do it. When I do, she has powerful, explosive orgasms. However, typically she only lets me go down on her after a shower. When she's REALLY in the mood I'll tease her until she's about to explode and then the sex is amazing, but the majority of the time it's just a mechanical, routine process.



It's hard to accept that someone else may love you, when you do not love yourself or have self doubt.

You could put time into boxing and it would take off your edge, but if you want to help the relationship you need to put time into it. I think there are some studies that talk about love, pheromones and sex. The short version is you fall in love with those you spend time with. You want those who pay attention to you. Long looks into each other's eyes and make her the center of your universe when she talks to you.

You can always ask her if she is happy.

[admittedheretic]

I think there are some studies that talk about love, pheromones and sex.

I'm rather sure there is little to no influence on human relationships with pheromones, but hormones are big players. Here is the skinny on one of the main love chemicals in the brain.

Oxytocin (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) (pronounced /ˌɒksɨˈtoʊsɪn/ (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)) (sold as Pitocin, Syntocinon) is a mammalian (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) hormone (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) that also acts as a neurotransmitter (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) in the brain (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).
It is best known for its roles in female reproduction: it is released in large amounts after distension of the cervix (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) and vagina (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) during labor, and after stimulation of the nipples (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), facilitating birth (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) and breastfeeding (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), respectively. Recent studies have begun to investigate oxytocin's role in various behaviors, including orgasm (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), social recognition, pair bonding (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), anxiety, trust, love (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), and maternal behaviors.[1] (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts._note-pmid19482229-0)

[Riela]

Antagonist,

I apologize if I am merely repeating what others have said but it seems to me that she is now too comfortable within the relationship, yet still uncomfortable with herself - not necessarily with you. ...Used to routine/taking you for granted (although perhaps the latter is a little too strong of a statement), but still insecure. What you mentioned earlier about an ex putting her down can have done tremendous harm. I do not know her personal views on sex, but if this is an act where she feels most vulnerable or vulnerable at all, (whether just in body or emotionally as well) then any negative comment in a time of insecurity would have only amplified said insecurity, if not creating new ones.

Although I believe that you have been given credible advice in what to do within your sex life, I also think you may need to take an approach that does not directly involve sex. By all means, (delicately) communicate to her that you wish to better this aspect of your relationship, but also try to encourage and work with her in her insecurities that are outside the sex life which you share, but may be correlated with it.

I have no idea what your S.O. is like, but I fear that if you go in strictly addressing sex, then this may further intimidate her from it - perhaps making her feel as if yet again there is something wrong with her which would lead to more insecurities (and this time they directly correlated to you). Could be wrong, though. I do not know her mind.

I again apologize if this has been answered, but I wonder if you know her type?

Edit: And by type, I mean MBTI.

[Antagonist]

I think instead of nitpicking every thing I perceive as negative I just need to work on myself. The stresses from other parts of my life are leaking into my relationship, I just need to make some changes in other areas and I'll be happy.

[Malotis]

If you're referring to a romantic relationship, then I'd vouch to say that sex is very important. To paraphrase a comment I heard on two and a half men the other day, "What's the point of being involved in sexually exclusive relationship if you're not going to have sex?"

As far as the quality of sex is concerned, I've found that when sex is good, it's great! And when sex is bad, well, it's still pretty good. Whether sex is just bleh, or a transcendental state of erotic bliss, well, depends. From my experience there's all kinds of sex, ranging from pity sex, revenge sex, haven't seen you in 2 weeks sex, angry sex, first time romantic sex, make up sex, drunk sex, high sex, I just woke up and I want you sex, 5th time tonight sex, 30th time this week sex, and so on and so forth. I'm tempted to say the number 1 factor in making or breaking the experience will depend on how attracted you are to your partner. After that, well, I'd imagine it would help slightly if your partner was experienced and remotely attuned to your wants/needs.

[Nikita]

I would need everything to be balanced. Perhaps it's naive, but I believe that the person who is truly right for me will be compatible with me in every way that matters to me, including sexually. I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's all or nothing with me.

[postem]

Sex also can be a skill. Its much more easier IMO to teach how or what do you want to have in sex terms than in interpersonal relationship. Some people doesnt much about sex, and if you are more experienced you should take the lead and teach.
After all, each person have personal sex desires, and you need to verbalize or comunicate how you feel it should happen.

[themuzicman]

I think the importance of sex in a relationship can be measured by the degree to which the satisfaction of your partner is a priority. I read the OP and the sense I got was that she wasn't doing a lot for him. What is the OPer doing to make the experience the best it can be for his partner?

IMHO, a sexual relationship is most satisfying when both partners are trying to maximize the experience for the other, rather than themselves.

[Insight]

IMHO, a sexual relationship is most satisfying when both partners are trying to maximize the experience for the other, rather than themselves.

Exactly.

I was lucky to have two relationships early on where that happened. Now casual/selfish sex seems like a waste to me. I don't have a problem with others doing it . . . it's just that sex can be so much more than that. It can feel so much better.

Anyway, what probably upsets guys (that is, me!) the most about women who flame out sexually on them (or were just pretending to be sexual in the first place, to snare them) is losing that feeling of safety. Sex makes men feel safe. We usually won't admit it, because strong men don't need to feel safe. We'll hide that need with various methods of domination. (Hey, we've got roles to play!)

For most, sex is important. For many, it's really important. Some can do without it . . . I am not one of those!

[Antagonist]

Exactly.

I was lucky to have two relationships early on where that happened. Now casual/selfish sex seems like a waste to me. I don't have a problem with others doing it . . . it's just that sex can be so much more than that. It can feel so much better.

Anyway, what probably upsets guys (that is, me!) the most about women who flame out sexually on them (or were just pretending to be sexual in the first place, to snare them) is losing that feeling of safety. Sex makes men feel safe. We usually won't admit it, because strong men don't need to feel safe. We'll hide that need with various methods of domination. (Hey, we've got roles to play!)

For most, sex is important. For many, it's really important. Some can do without it . . . I am not one of those!


This. It's the safety net. There's always that lingering fear that if we're not having much sex, it's got to be because she doesn't like it much. And if she doesn't like it much, she might look somewhere else for better sex.

[thod]

Nah, men and women have got together for last million years for the purposes of fucking. It really is all about making babies and providing an environment for them to grow up in. All the walks, the cuddles, the shopping are secondary. A man does not want a relationship because he shares a similar interest in interior design. Those women that think this need to grow up, they are not sexually mature women. I am not insecure, I do not need reassurance. I am not emotional, I do not need to an outlet for my non-existent feelings. I do have a need to empty my balls. She gets what she wants out of it, I get what I want. If we don't agree then its not going to work. This goes for changing the game rules after the game has started too.

[plotthickens]

How much happy adrenaline have you two shared lately? A large part of pairbonding is sharing experiences that create adrenaline rushes; the first part of a relationship is adrenaline-laden in itself.

Hit a roller coaster. Go on a horseback ride together. Something new and different and at least a little exciting.

[HeterodoxRobot]

I used to think sex in a relationship was not that important at all, like #55 in the relationship priority list...but, I've recently gotten involved with an amazing INTJ with whom I can not only have AMAZING intellectual intercourse with, but also MIND-BLOWING sex.

Feeling a connection with your partner is important, and when you can also feel that intense connection in a sexual/intimate sense it actually works to fortify your bond together.

:)

[themuzicman]

Good luck with that adrenaline thing when you have kids and then hit 40.

Relationships last because two people make a solid commitment to make them last. Part of that commitment is meeting the needs and desires of the other person. That includes sex.

[HeterodoxRobot]

Relationships last because two people make a solid commitment to make them last. Part of that commitment is meeting the needs and desires of the other person. That includes sex.
I sorta agree with you, but your tone/perspective is so...so.. so very sterile.

How about you actually find and commit to a mate whom you *actually* like, love, respect, appreciate, trust, admire, and ENJOY TO BE AROUND.

Then you won't have to think about having sex as a "need" that must be "met"

;)

[themuzicman]

I sorta agree with you, but your tone/perspective is so...so.. so very sterile.

I'm INTJ.. what can I say?

How about you actually find and commit to a mate whom you *actually* like, love, respect, appreciate, trust, admire, and ENJOY TO BE AROUND.

I thought that would be implied before you make the actual commitment.

OTOH, people in arranged marriages make it work somehow.

Then you won't have to think about having sex as a "need" that must be "met"

;)

I put sex primarily under the "desire" category.

[HeterodoxRobot]

I thought that would be implied before you make the actual commitment.

I put sex primarily under the "desire" category.
touche!

:toff:

[LordCorbin]

Public Service Announcement:
Number 1 on the list of womens sexual 'concerns' (in regards to oral) is fears about how their partner will 'react' to their genitals, i.e. appearance, smell, taste.
Im not sure how much getting her to put aside these fears will help, but it certainly couldnt hurt. I remember telling my cousin, when he got his first girlfriend, that he should go down on her. Boy was he surprised at that (I think I was 12?) Wonder now if he ever followed my advice.

As to the original question:
Personally I view it as another dimension of relationship communication. Definitely a part of the base of the relationship that is essential for long term success. If you arent compatible in the way you communicate, then you need to work on it, come to a mutual understanding. It helps to know when 'bad/mediocre' sex is the cause of your problems or the symptom, however.

[Storm]

Nah, men and women have got together for last million years for the purposes of fucking. It really is all about making babies and providing an environment for them to grow up in. All the walks, the cuddles, the shopping are secondary. A man does not want a relationship because he shares a similar interest in interior design. Those women that think this need to grow up, they are not sexually mature women. I am not insecure, I do not need reassurance. I am not emotional, I do not need to an outlet for my non-existent feelings. I do have a need to empty my balls. She gets what she wants out of it, I get what I want. If we don't agree then its not going to work. This goes for changing the game rules after the game has started too.

If all you want in a relationship is sex, then I suggest moving to rural Nevada.

If just want to pass on your genes and sex, then I suggest moving to rural Nevada and hitting up the sperm bank. The benefit of that is you'll have a source of income to pay for the prostitutes. Win-win.

[Krazy P]

Very interesting, candid question.

I have been married for almost 35 years and I can tell you: good sex is the MOST important thing!

You can make bad sex into good sex with work and effort - and that means YOU.

For example, I am almost 56 years old and the avatar you see is a photo of me - untouched. I work out like a maniac and one of the reasons is that I am more attractive to my wife as a result of this work. I wear her favorite outfits - same reason. She likes calf muscles (because of her father). I used to have skinny calves - and I worked to make them not skinny.

My wife has certain, shall we say, "kinks" that I knew nothing about until well after we were married, I taught myself to help her have fun with them.

Sexual pleasure happens in the brain - not other body parts. So, use your brain, find out about your partner and take responsibility for moving the sex from bad to good.

[t3hrubikscube]

I don't care about sex at ALL. Sometimes I even go so far as to consider myself asexual. I am attracted to men, so I'm heterosexual, but honestly, I don't care about sex at all. It makes me uncomfortable and it doesn't interest me at all. I'm not a sexual person in the least. I don't like to be touched and I don't like to touch. Kissing is okay, but I don't kiss just anyone.

I'd be okay if I never had sex, but I figure that won't fly with a lot of guys, so I'll probably give in one day. I am attracted to guys, just not sexually. I like relationships, but I'm not into the physical aspect of them.

[plotthickens]

Very interesting, candid question.

I have been married for almost 35 years and I can tell you: good sex is the MOST important thing!

You can make bad sex into good sex with work and effort - and that means YOU.

For example, I am almost 56 years old and the avatar you see is a photo of me - untouched. I work out like a maniac and one of the reasons is that I am more attractive to my wife as a result of this work. I wear her favorite outfits - same reason. She likes calf muscles (because of her father). I used to have skinny calves - and I worked to make them not skinny.

My wife has certain, shall we say, "kinks" that I knew nothing about until well after we were married, I taught myself to help her have fun with them.

Sexual pleasure happens in the brain - not other body parts. So, use your brain, find out about your partner and take responsibility for moving the sex from bad to good.

THIS. This is what I want. This is what most women want. THIS. This does it for us. THIS will get you what you want. Oh... not the immense time in the gym... the EFFORT. YES.

HELL YES. :thumbsup:

[JustMel]

THIS. This is what I want. This is what most women want. THIS. This does it for us. THIS will get you what you want. Oh... not the immense time in the gym... the EFFORT. YES.

HELL YES. :thumbsup:

Yep. For some of us the help around the house or taking the trash out without being bitched at is the "effort" we're speaking of. Oh and being up for trying new things every now and then.

[Insight]

You can make bad sex into good sex with work and effort - and that means YOU.

Badass.

What's funny about the tenor of this thread is that it's about women who won't have sex with men . . . what about men who won't have sex with women? There are plenty of those out there. Women who are victims of this seem to display as much if not more disgust as sex-deprived men.

. . . and I think the reasons why women don't have sex with men are much more complicated. Maybe their work is too hard and it's stressing them out. Or it's stress from the children. Or maybe their man stinks all the time . . . or is ugly . . . or is BAD IN BED!

Maybe it has to do with objectification. A lot of men seem to think they "own" the woman somehow if she's spreading for him . . . it's such complete bullshit. My female friends always complain about some sexual act that their boyfriends did that made them feel like an object . . . like some instrument of pleasure. Women hate that . . . unless they know that you respect and love them . . . then they want that :-D

Or maybe it's because the man has done something to lose the woman's respect. At some point he totally screwed up, and now she's expressing her unwillingness/inability to forgive by having no sexual interest in him. (When I lose respect for my girlfriend, the last thing I want to do is have sex with her.)

Some women naturally have no sex drive, but I think they are relatively rare. If women didn't want to fuck, there would be fewer people around.

[llawevets]

bad sex? isn't it like bad pizza - IT"S STILL PIZZA!!

[realJim]

Sex is overrated. If you don't have a good/loving connection with the person you are engaging with, sex is better by your own hand. Casual sex, pfft! True loving sex, unforgettable and epic.

[JustMel]

bad sex? isn't it like bad pizza - IT"S STILL PIZZA!!

Not to everyone. Bad pizza doesn't get eaten in my house. Bad sex is not acceptable.

Sex is overrated. If you don't have a good/loving connection with the person you are engaging with, sex is better by your own hand. Casual sex, pfft! True loving sex, unforgettable and epic.

Not always. I enjoy sex, even casual sex when I was single. I enjoy the long, lingering, mind blowing sex on occasion but occasionally most women (every woman I know that will eventually admit the truth) enjoy the unforgettable and epic variety but on occasion we still like the "kiss me, lick me, suck me, finger me, fuck me" variety as well.

The problem with women feeling like objects is not the sex itself, it's generally the way the man approaches the sex or the act. Men complain women aren't adventurous enough but forget that most of us have spent our whole lives being told that sex is bad and if you enjoy sex you're a slut so even if we like more than vanilla sex it's a mental hurdle to actually perform those acts because you have all those voices babbling in your brain. It's not until you learn to gag them and that it's okay to enjoy sex and be adventurous in bed. Some men have been known to throw an idea out to their woman and when she says okay he'll turn around and ask her if she's a slut. It's a no win for most females.

[thod]

It works the other way too to some degree. A woman can have a vibrator "Oh all those girls on sex in the city all have rampant rabbits". A guy brings home a blow up doll or builds a wanking machine, he is a pervert.

[larkin]

It works the other way too to some degree. A woman can have a vibrator "Oh all those girls on sex in the city all have rampant rabbits". A guy brings home a blow up doll or builds a wanking machine, he is a pervert.

Yes. Because you have a hand.

Although, to be fair, if you want to build a wanking machine, by all means. I might even be a little bit impressed at your moxie.

[Riela]

Yes. Because you have a hand.



I do believe women have hands as well...
:p

[JustMel]

There's a vast difference between a blow up doll and a vibrator. Seriously, you can both enjoy the vibrator but I don't know any woman that wants to include a blow up doll in her bedroom antics with her man. A game or dirty dice is one thing but sharing your bed with a piece of plastic painted to look like a whore who is permanently surprised is another.

If he's single and wants to bring home a blow up doll then by all means but if he's in a relationship it's just weird but to each his own.