CoD: MW2

[ConstableCuddle]

I looked for a recent thread that related to the subject at hand and found none. I may have not looked hard enough, but I tried.

I am suprised no one started a thread on this or continued an existing one. This game is fucking awemazing! The reason I feel it's necisary to post this thread is that I am supirsed everyone who has reviewed the game or played it says it lacks a story, but I say it has the best plot I have ever seen in the CoD series. Second best in all FPSs, the first being BioShock. Comparied to the first this game, the plot is far more realistic and makes perfect sense. It is by far, more compelling and more reflective of current events and actual modern warfare. It also has hell of a lot more action in it. Does anyone disagree or have any questions about the plot?

[Samoan Corleone]

I'll say the airport mission bugged the hell out of me and made me resent all those involved.

[ConstableCuddle]

That mission was awemazing though, the story element is most crucial, and I think that's where a lot of people get confused. I was annerved by it too, but it's part of the story element, and it really puts you into the perspective of the character.

[Samoan Corleone]

Yes it does. It was one of the few times when playing a game that I had to remind myself the "people" I was shooting were nothing more than individual combinations of polygons, soundbites, and animations. The story was indeed good as well. I never completed the first MW, so there were probably a few things I missed.
The open-ended conclusion to the game frustrated me a bit. The WAW ending almost had me in tears, though. :laugh:

[ConstableCuddle]

I thought the ending was great, and I really can't wait for the next one.

[Freedom Geek]

Good game.

The most disturbing aspect of the airport mission was how easy it was to just kill all those civilians. Just keeps saying that it's for the greater good and it's a pinch. I wonder if that's what some terrorists think?

[DewFuel]

Second best [plot] in all FPSs, the first being BioShock.


Hmmm.... have you played F.E.A.R., Deus Ex, System Shock, System Shock 2, Thief? I wouldn't dare put any CoD game on the same level as these.

Although they're not all shooters, they are landmark games in the FPS genre, with far better stories than any CoD. BioShock was a spiritual successor to SS2, but in my opinion fell very short of the magic that SS2 brought. Bioshock was good, but should have been so much more.

[ConstableCuddle]

Hmmm.... have you played F.E.A.R., Deus Ex, System Shock, System Shock 2, Thief? I wouldn't dare put any CoD game on the same level as these.

Although they're not all shooters, they are landmark games in the FPS genre, with far better stories than any CoD. BioShock was a spiritual successor to SS2, but in my opinion fell very short of the magic that SS2 brought. Bioshock was good, but should have been so much more.

F.E.A.R. 2 was far superior then the original, in my opinion. I forgot about that. I'm not much of a PC Elitest though so I haven't played any of the other games. I love BioShock because of the dreamesque setting, and the philisophical school of thought it is based off of, which I am sure System Sock 2 lacks. I'm into what Andrew Ryan has to say, and it is fucking awemazing. CoD: MW2 has a very compelling, "grey" story, and is very realistic and has a very strong connection with current events. That is why I like the story.

[DewFuel]

F.E.A.R. 2 was far superior then the original, in my opinion. I forgot about that. I'm not much of a PC Elitest though so I haven't played any of the other games. I love BioShock because of the dreamesque setting, and the philisophical school of thought it is based off of, which I am sure System Sock 2 lacks.

Then you would be mistaken greatly.

Bioshock's entire premise (secluded society with intelligent people gets trashed) and the gameplay (upgrading, hacking, data disks, etc..) is identical to System Shock 2.

Oh ya, and the half-life series are pretty fucking fantastic, too.

[ConstableCuddle]

Then you would be mistaken greatly.

Bioshock's entire premise (secluded society with intelligent people gets trashed) and the gameplay (upgrading, hacking, data disks, etc..) is identical to System Shock 2.

Oh ya, and the half-life series are pretty fucking fantastic, too.

I would have to play it to believe it, so I guess no point arugeing over it. You win...for now.

Half-Life is okay. Not as fucking bad ass as Portal!!!!! I can't believe I forgot this game! Portal is the greatest FPS EVER!!!!

[Necrosis]

From what I hear, the COD storyline does not even compare to Unchartered 2. That being said, I freaking loved MW2. IMO the story line did lack a bit. The last mission was rather short. But I still loved all the twists and plot changes. For anyone who complains about the story being told in movies, MW1 was the same way. I love that style. I don't see anyone complaining about how MGS has tons of movies that need to be watched.

Best part of the game though is def spec ops :)

If anyone has ps3 my tag is srod511 feel free to add me though I have limited playing time with work.

[Gildur24]

The game blew away all of my expectations. It ended up being better then I could have hoped for. The story was an unexpected huge bonus but with the amazing game play it still would have been good with out it.

And you guys shot the civies whats wrong with you people? lol I just shot over the heads of the crowd.

[Necrosis]

The game blew away all of my expectations. It ended up being better then I could have hoped for. The story was an unexpected huge bonus but with the amazing game play it still would have been good with out it.

And you guys shot the civies whats wrong with you people? lol I just shot over the heads of the crowd.

Am I wrong for enjoying that mission? I especially liked shooting the ones on the floor. For all realistic purposes, something like that in RL would be horrifying and I do not enjoy watching things like that. But "as a game" and strictly in game terms, that mission was cool.

[ConstableCuddle]

I loved the ending to it, just how he set you up. I didn't really care for killing the civilians, but it was still awemazing to do it. I won't deny it, it was very cool.

[Gildur24]

Every bit of it was needed to pull you into the truly fantastic story leading up to what can only be described as an epic ending. I can't wait for the next one.

And no shooting innocent computer generated pixels isn't wrong I was just teasing. Way too many people are really over reacting to that. It's just a game people calm down.

[LaoTzu]

The online play is much better than the last two have been.

I suck mind-you, but my kid could prob. pwn j00! :P

[Ian Morrison]

My thoughts are that it was brilliant storytelling, and excellent spectacle. I was kept gripped start to finish (I played the singleplayer in one solid session) wanting to know what was happening next, and was constantly thinking "WOW", "I can't believe they did that!", and "OH MY GOD THAT WAS AWESOME". And, in the case of the airport mission, I felt genuinely disturbed. I shot a few of the civilians because I thought that my "buddies" would turn on me if I did not, but when I realized they'd ignore it I restricted myself to shooting above their heads and hoping that Makarov died painfully.

Really annoyed that he didn't.

However, on reflection, the plot REALLY made no goddamned sense whatsoever. The first game had a consistent plot that tied everything together, but almost all of the major plot events had me going "wait, what?" The airport mission in particular felt like the only purpose was to shock and disgust you... narratively, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Gameplay wise, loved it. Thermal scopes + smoke was a nice twist, and I loved the damn predator drones. Smiting oncoming hoards with impunity is EXCELLENT. And the mission in the blizzard? I loved the heartbeat scanner.

So the story didn't make a lot of sense, but my jaw was firmly planted on the floor the entire way so I guess I can forgive it. Mostly.

[Necrosis]

I found the story made alot of sense to me actually. Was it realistic? Not really.

Think about it. The general of the "US" whats his face lost all his troops in part 1 when the nuke went off... so what does he do...he betrays you in part 2 to make himself look like the good guy. Makes alot of sense to me. The only thing that really annoyed me was how Makarov gets away which I'm hoping is the goal for part 3.

The airport mission I think is needed. It shows the first sign of something being wrong. I believe the general gave you out, but I can't recall. Anyway I love the game!!

[Ian Morrison]

No, he didn't lose any of HIS troops when the nuke went off. In fact, the nuke (which detonated in the upper atmosphere) probably saved the Capital from the Russian attack. Then he betrays you for vague and unspecified reasons, presumably because he wanted something bad to happen so he could be a hero. But there's little tieing him to any of the bad stuff that happened, and little to explain his motivations outside of "cleaning up loose ends" (what loose ends? I didn't KNOW anything!) Most of the missions felt utterly disconnected from the narrative, actually. This might have been the intent, with the player having a "ground level" view to covert ops and major infantry operations and not having the best perspective, but it did mean that the plot didn't make a whole lot of sense in retrospect for me.

[boldbidder]

I loved loved loved the original MW and was extremely frightened about the prospects of Infinity Ward topping that effort. My expectations were utterly annihilated. The airport sequence was the single most disturbing portion of any video game I've ever played, but for the record you can get through that entire part with out shooting anyone, even the SWAT team.

The ending of MW1 was the single best ending for any action type medium (games, movies, books, etc..) ever in my humble but very biased opinion. Or so I thought until I completed MW2, pardon me while I evoke Cartman, "Jesus Christ Monkey Balls!!!!" The IW writers need to help Hollywood, the staging and execution of that final segment was unreal, I haven't felt that much suspense in a long time whether reading fiction or seeing a movie, much less playing a video game.

The story was largely throwaway far, but IW excels at execution, that's what sets it apart. Uncharted 2 was a milestone in blending cut-movies with gameplay and also is has the best pacing of any game in recent memory, but the feeling of satisfaction at the end pales in comparison to MW2. After beating MW2 I was grinning like an idiot for atleast 30 minutes.

In the pantheon video game stories (and stories in general of the last 25 years) however I still rate Mass Effect above all others mentioned in this thread. That story could be a movie tomorrow and gross 500+ mil.

[Freedom Geek]

No, he didn't lose any of HIS troops when the nuke went off. In fact, the nuke (which detonated in the upper atmosphere) probably saved the Capital from the Russian attack. Then he betrays you for vague and unspecified reasons, presumably because he wanted something bad to happen so he could be a hero. But there's little tieing him to any of the bad stuff that happened, and little to explain his motivations outside of "cleaning up loose ends" (what loose ends? I didn't KNOW anything!) Most of the missions felt utterly disconnected from the narrative, actually. This might have been the intent, with the player having a "ground level" view to covert ops and major infantry operations and not having the best perspective, but it did mean that the plot didn't make a whole lot of sense in retrospect for me.

He's talking about the first modern warfare game. Here's a video of it happening. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[Necrosis]

He's talking about the first modern warfare game. Here's a video of it happening. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Exactly, in part one you played as Jackson I believe who died when the nuke went off while you were in the helicopter.

[boldbidder]

Exactly, in part one you played as Jackson I believe who died when the nuke went off while you were in the helicopter.

Yup, classic moment in video gamedom, the after math as you're crawling around before you die was incredibly eerie.

[Necrosis]

No, he didn't lose any of HIS troops when the nuke went off. In fact, the nuke (which detonated in the upper atmosphere) probably saved the Capital from the Russian attack. Then he betrays you for vague and unspecified reasons, presumably because he wanted something bad to happen so he could be a hero. But there's little tieing him to any of the bad stuff that happened, and little to explain his motivations outside of "cleaning up loose ends" (what loose ends? I didn't KNOW anything!) Most of the missions felt utterly disconnected from the narrative, actually. This might have been the intent, with the player having a "ground level" view to covert ops and major infantry operations and not having the best perspective, but it did mean that the plot didn't make a whole lot of sense in retrospect for me.

Now that you know that detail... is it more clear? B/c IMO the story makes a lot of sense... it's just very unrealistic in any practical real life sense.

[Ian Morrison]

I played the original, thanks. That wasn't Shepard's army, was it?

If it was and that was his motivation, that makes even LESS sense, since he didn't NEED to look like the "good guy", he would already be the aggrieved general. I can't think of a single good reason for him to betray the player, even if (and it's hardly clear) he orchestrated the entire war for his own glory, simply because the player doesn't KNOW anything... the only possible reason would be to hide that Price fired off the nuke, but that wasn't even hinted at. The betrayal seems to have been done more for shock value than any actual narrative purpose.

The only tie I felt between the first and second game is the presence of familiar faces and the barely elaborated Zakhaev/Makarov relationship, which I really wish had been played up. Instead, it got a single line in the game.

The story was largely throwaway far, but IW excels at execution, that's what sets it apart.

This. Like I said, my jaw was on the floor and I played through in a marathon session, wanting to know what happened next. The drama they were portraying was INCREDIBLE, which is almost enough for me to forget the incoherent plot entirely. It was just THAT GOOD.

Just on a tangent, as the topic seems to be shifting that direction anyways, I figure I'll list some of the best stories and storytelling I've seen in games in the last few years: FEAR, HL2: EP2, Portal, MW1/2, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age: Origins. I'm probably missing a couple, but those are the ones that come to mind first.

[Freedom Geek]

I played the original, thanks. That wasn't Shepard's army, was it?

If it was and that was his motivation, that makes even LESS sense, since he didn't NEED to look like the "good guy", he would already be the aggrieved general. I can't think of a single good reason for him to betray the player, even if (and it's hardly clear) he orchestrated the entire war for his own glory, simply because the player doesn't KNOW anything... the only possible reason would be to hide that Price fired off the nuke, but that wasn't even hinted at. The betrayal seems to have been done more for shock value than any actual narrative purpose.

The only tie I felt between the first and second game is the presence of familiar faces and the barely elaborated Zakhaev/Makarov relationship, which I really wish had been played up. Instead, it got a single line in the game.



This. Like I said, my jaw was on the floor and I played through in a marathon session, wanting to know what happened next. The drama they were portraying was INCREDIBLE, which is almost enough for me to forget the incoherent plot entirely. It was just THAT GOOD.

Just on a tangent, as the topic seems to be shifting that direction anyways, I figure I'll list some of the best stories and storytelling I've seen in games in the last few years: FEAR, HL2: EP2, Portal, MW1/2, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age: Origins. I'm probably missing a couple, but those are the ones that come to mind first.

He said that when 30000 of his troops were killed by the nuke the public had become so apathetic that they simply didn't care and he wanted something to personally effect them like an invasion to get them caring again.

[Ian Morrison]

Where was this? I don't remember that at all.

[Kisai]

And you guys shot the civies whats wrong with you people? lol I just shot over the heads of the crowd.

I'm surprised at you INTJs! Civilians are meat shields, not target practice! :nono:

[Toas]

Amazing game. Airport mission didn't bother me at all. I've played it over a few times.

[boldbidder]

Ok, just played through single player again, had been consumed by Spec Ops, and upon repeat viewing the story actually makes a lot more sense. Also, I've decided that that the most emotionally charged sequence for me was

Shephard killing you and then being set on fire. I was dazed and confused the first time around, my reaction was basically, 'Huh?!? WTF?!? Did this crusty frakker just shoot me?" Where as this time around I was really incensed, I wanted to leap into the TV and choke the ever loving shit out of him. Being shot is one thing, but being set on fire and watching them toss Ghost's lifeless body into that hole really pissed me off.

The ending was still the adrenaline rush the 2nd time as the first, kinda how I always get a tingles up spine during Gordon's closing monologue of The Dark Knight, just one of those things that works every time. IW has really achieved something here in that they've created two characters in Soap and Price, and even Nikolai to a lesser extent that I really connect with and am rooting for. MW3 can't get here fast enough.

[Phoenix rising]

If anyone wants a partner for special ops on the PS network, message me.

[boldbidder]

Interview with the lead script writer, courtesy of Gampro. He goes into a fair amount of detail about the entire creative process paying special attention to the Airport sequence.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Necrosis]

Ok, just played through single player again, had been consumed by Spec Ops, and upon repeat viewing the story actually makes a lot more sense. Also, I've decided that that the most emotionally charged sequence for me was

Shephard killing you and then being set on fire. I was dazed and confused the first time around, my reaction was basically, 'Huh?!? WTF?!? Did this crusty frakker just shoot me?" Where as this time around I was really incensed, I wanted to leap into the TV and choke the ever loving shit out of him. Being shot is one thing, but being set on fire and watching them toss Ghost's lifeless body into that hole really pissed me off.

The ending was still the adrenaline rush the 2nd time as the first, kinda how I always get a tingles up spine during Gordon's closing monologue of The Dark Knight, just one of those things that works every time. IW has really achieved something here in that they've created two characters in Soap and Price, and even Nikolai to a lesser extent that I really connect with and am rooting for. MW3 can't get here fast enough.

Sadly there has been no confirmation that's in progress yet. In fact, IW said that they hadn't started nor was it on their mind at this point. Hopefully it comes out within the next two years. We all knew they won't leave it at such a cliffhanger especially considering the money it made.

[ConstableCuddle]

However, on reflection, the plot REALLY made no goddamned sense whatsoever. The first game had a consistent plot that tied everything together, but almost all of the major plot events had me going "wait, what?" The airport mission in particular felt like the only purpose was to shock and disgust you... narratively, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The point of the the airport mission "No Russian" was the key part in the story! It was pivitol in all of Makarov's plans. He knew that there was an American in his midst and he knew who it was so he set up this "terrorist" attack with American weapons, where they were to speak english only (non-english russian isn't going to be able to pick out a "Russian" accent), and he ends up killing the American spy, who the authorities find later and identify as an American, makeing it look like an American terrorist attack. The now ultranationalist Russia is already pissed off at America for killing their hero Imran Zakhaev, who you might remember from the last game (and yea, I know it was an SAS operative). So they just assume that the other terrorist attacks around the country that Makarov setup are also a part of an American conspiracy against them. If you pay attention to what is said between the missions and at the end of "No Russian" it all connects.

As for General Shepherd's betrayal, he found Russia responsible for the bomb in the first game and wanted to go to war with Russia to avenge his men. No one cared about the loss of his men, and he wanted to see everyone in Americans to become "volunteers" and "patriots". That's why he can't have anyone prove that Makarov set up the airport attack because it could possibly put an end to the Russo-American War. And that's surprisingly not that far fetched, there are a lot of American Generals who do stupid stuff to be war heroes. This game is the most realistic modern depiction of a war game, where there is no absolute good, no absolute evil. Everyone is wrong, and most people are ignorant to the fact of it.

If this makes no sense still then I'm sorry, I am a bit sleepy while typeing this.

[Ian Morrison]

The point of the the airport mission "No Russian" was the key part in the story!

Yeah, I got that, but it still felt like a huge stretch to have that set off a war. Yeah, I get that joe public ain't rational, but quite honestly... one of the terrorists who shot up (or may not have shot up) the airport was clearly shot by his compatriots and left at the scene. Especially given that for the CIA to blatantly shoot up a Russian airport without provocation (or even with it) is an unbelievable turn of events (because they'd have to be idiots to do so) that makes it tough to swallow that everyone bought the ruse.


That's why he can't have anyone prove that Makarov set up the airport attack because it could possibly put an end to the Russo-American War.

Uh, no, that's exactly what his blank check was for, and the knowledge that America was set up wasn't that uncommon. Certainly Shepard's superiors knew about it. The only possible justification is that he wanted everyone on the team that commandeered the Russian sub dead so that nobody would find out Price dropped the nuke.

This game is the most realistic modern depiction of a war game...

Sorry, any game which puts out the idea that one captured satellite would mean that EVERY American early warning system would go down doesn't get to be called "realistic". :P

Now, the plot makes MORE sense in retrospect than it did immediately after, though the clarity of storytelling is obviously not up to snuff. Major plot events (Makarov's ruse actually being considered legit, the attack on America, and the betrayal being the worst offenders) are of questionable plausibility. Your main plot points CAN'T be unclear or dubious if you want your plot to hold together. Worse, there were so many other plot points that seemed completely extraneous, which confused things further... the person in the safe room and the entire chase in that south american village, for instance. Not, in my mind, the most solid and coherent way to structure a plot.

Again, though, the shear DRAMA and balls-to-the-wall awesomeness of how they pulled it all off basically obliterated all the critical thought centers in my brain until everything was said and done. It did all the small stuff so brilliantly that I never noticed the large stuff, which is quite impressive.

[Seducer]

I thought MW1 was a shallow game. I just started MW2 and it seems very shallow. It doesn't even start with any story. It just dumps you into a silly little battle. The graphics are great and I can tell they put a lot of work into it. I think the modern warfare series would've been much better if they had based it on real life battles, wars, and scenarios. MW2 looks nice but it isn't grabbing me yet. BTW I think PC graphics are starting to blow xbox 360 graphics out of the water.

[Pandemonium]

Anyone play this on the ps3 yet?

Is it me or was the game too damn short?

[Carinthian]

The game was very short. I thought I am somewhere in the middle of the plot when the credits started to roll.
However, the story itself was quite good, or it just seems that way to me because of the endless ammounts of WWII games.



PS: Is it wrong not to be so emotionally affected by the infamous airport mission? I just can't grasp how anyone could be so affected by it... Twas quite amusing, really.

[Samoan Corleone]

PS: Is it wrong not to be so emotionally affected by the infamous airport mission? I just can't grasp how anyone could be so affected by it... Twas quite amusing, really.

If you detach yourself and remind yourself it's just a game, and also keep in mind all the fun times you ran over random people in GTA games (double standard there), then it's understandable.

[boldbidder]

If you detach yourself and remind yourself it's just a game, and also keep in mind all the fun times you ran over random people in GTA games (double standard there), then it's understandable.

Interesting and apropos comparison. When my friends and I used to play GTA, one of our favorite things to do in MP was to go to the court house and start shooting civilians to attract as much police attention as we could. At no point did I 'feel' anything when partaking in 'operation mayhem' as we liked to call it.

Contrast that to MW2 where I felt very uncomfortable during the airport mission, I even spent a good 30 minutes try different permutations where I attempted to kill Markarov and his men. I never shot a civilian, but watching Makarov and his men gun the people down was disturbing. A fine example of why I would never let my child play such a game. I saw waaaaay too many 10 year olds with their parents in tow picking up their copy when I was picking up mine.

[Pandemonium]

I wondered around shooting the civs and had no problem. ^_^

[ranwayslo]

Your mission is to infiltrate the enemy, your rules of engagement are to do whatever it takes to gain his trust....Yeah I wasted the civvies...No I did not feel bad.