Are you loyal?

[Zilal]

In some INTJ descriptions it mentions loyalty as a supposed trait of ours. And I suppose I am loyal, but maybe in some nontraditional ways... so I'm not sure if I agree with the descriptions or not. Do you think of yourself as loyal? What are you loyal to?

[Darkmist]

I'm loyal to people who have given me reason to be loyal. (That trust and broken trust issue again). Close family, and oh yeah, my dog.

Sigh, maybe not quite. I don't break trust, hence spill secrets . . . unless I can see I'm going down by keeping them. Then it's self-preservation all the way. Though I would attempt to twist things so I'm not betraying anyone if at all possible.

[yondyr]

Yeah, very loyal...to my instincts, philosophy, ethics.. Oh you meant to other people, no, other than INTJ partner never gonna let anyone else so close I need to be loyal to them. Others are sooo different, I'd be hamstrung trying to stay loyal.

[thegnat]

I'd say I'm a very loyal person. Even to people I don't respect much, it would still bother me considerably to "spill their beans" or do something disloyal.

[aexis]

I think it's very important to distinguish between loyalty and sentimentality on this thread.

I'm very loyal. But I'm not at all sentimental. This combination, I think, accounts for much of the INTJ's perceived 'ruthlessness'.

[ssfanatic]

I dont know if any of you are familiar with AA or Al-anon, but that also describes adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal. And being an ACoA, i fit the stereotype quite nicely. So i think that is what makes me extremely loyal, im not sure about the INTJ thing, it may just be coincidental.

[Jgib5328]

I'm a pretty loyal person, but only to the people who are worthy of my loyalty. If someone matters to me I'll be loyal to them, if they don't matter to me, then I could potentially use them for my own purposes. But I never break loyalty to someone who matters, It's immoral.

[lordrrr]

Once people have earned my trust and respect I have it an upmost priority to be loyal to them until they break that trust/respect. All of my friends I am loyal too, and when it comes to how loyal I am to a certain friend versus all the others I am loyal more to the one higher on the list than the other. I am loyal to my family/relatives as well. I can be extremely loyal so long as the person is "up there" on my list of trustworthy people.

[Nomad]

I have two friends, a couple, who explain our relationship to others this way: When I'm down, and no one cares, and I'm lost, he'll move the universe to find me and help me. If I'm in trouble, and think no one will help me, he'll call me stupid and burn himself right to the ground, without regard to the cost to help me. of all the people I've even known, without exception, he is the only one who will die for me and not regret that decision. No one, not even my parents will go to bat for me that way, while never letting me forget if I screwed up.

So, if you think he's an asshole, you get right the fuck out of my house.

She didn't know I could hear what she said. Yeah, I'm loyal. But I have good reasons.

-Nomad

[Antares]

I'm loyal when it is right to be. No, that doesn't mean I'll be loyal to my country regardless of what it wants to do. Loyalty, like love, trust and respect, is not demanded. Above all, I am loyal to my own judgment. Although it can be flawed, it's the best I have, and if my judgment tells me to stop being loyal to this one person because he/she is not worth it, I will adhere the advice. I will be loyal to a worthy person of a worthy cause. Will I stand up for my best friend and remain loyal to her if she was slandered, harmed or put-down? Yes I will, to the end, in fact. If I were a judge and she is the accused and is clearly guilty, I will convict her if that's what the law and justice calls. The fact that she is my friend changes nothing; my judgment will be the same if I'm dealing with someone I don't know at all. So am I loyal? I guess you can say depends.

In petty common disputes, I'll forgive her more readily than others because I value the friendship we have and I will remain loyal to her.

[Pinkie]

I'm hardly loyal at all to most people, but I'm fiercely loyal to the people I love. If I don't love them... well, I can make no promises. I also won't lie to people I'm loyal to. Not about anything big, anyway.

Sometimes I think my view of morality is rather... unique. Anyone else find the same thing about themselves?

[PortInStorm]

Yep, I'm loyal in non-traditional ways- good phrase Zilal. It's not necessarily family, not necessarily based on length of time knowing the person, not necessarily shown in traditional ways like calling everyday etc.

My sister-in-law has always seems to have my back, more so even than my brother, and so no matter what she does, I really am loyal to her and her talents. I guess that means not letting things get in the way of our relationship (others' criticism, our personality differences etc).

My mom is the best in the world, I feel, and it's no problem at all to be loyal to her. But again, doesn't mean constant contact, but we understand each other, I want her best interests, won't let anyone else criticize her. We anticipate each others' reactions.

A sort-of ex has my loyalty, too. Always contact him on his birthday, but sometimes weeks, months will go by and nothing. But at the slightest hint something's wrong, he'll ask. He picks up every nuance, and I love that. I try to remember the stuff going on in his life, scold him when he's working too hard, etc.

But the biggest offense to me is when someone's been disloyal, betrayal. I guess to me that means dishonesty, or withholding something that'd be important to me, or skipping being there when it's obvious I really need them (because I don't require that often at all, and when I do, I expose my weakest self). To have them leave that weak self is huge and bad. I forgive because all of us screw up (and it's the best to do), but the relationship severely damaged. It's one of my biggies.

[Zilal]

Yes, I think I have a unique morality too. And I think my sense of loyalty is non-traditional even compared to those already expressed here. Because my loyalty isn't necessarily based on trust or on whether the other person is worthy of it. It's not about them so much as it is about me. If I get involved with someone in any way that involves choice on my part... whether it's a romantic relationship or a business partnership or just choosing to help that person out... I'll feel some loyalty toward them. They don't have to earn it.

And it doesn't mean I'll always back them up, or take their side, or feel anything for them other than loyalty, because I don't think that's always helpful or good for someone. But it means I've decided that my energy will be available to them if they want it, and that I won't ditch the relationship without a good reason.

The most nontraditional thing for me is that I don't seem to have adopted this behavior for moral or ethical reasons. It seems to be a matter of efficiency for me. It just takes less energy to simply commit myself to giving someone my effort than it does to always be thinking about whether they deserve it. Flip-flopping about people takes energy. It's better to just say, okay, I've made a choice to be there for this person... and to stick to it.

[PRBori]

I'm loyal only to those who have won my trust. Exceptions are made only to family members because they are family..and blood is thicker than water...

I'm also loyal to my partner, sometimes very submissived as long as respect, trust, and communications are hold high.

At work I'm loyal because I must finished what I start; however, that loyalty can be broken if sudden changes take place where I feel I'm no longer respected.

So yes, as an INTJ.. I consider myself loyal

[Aurelia]

I have a loyalty to my family, spouse and a few close friends but that is it. Those who are not close to me have on occasion mentioned that I am ruthless but that is only in situations where I feel someone is being malicious. I don't tolerate those who are deliberately disrespectful very well.

[integratedvelocity]

I am loyal to beliefs, but not necessarily to people. As aexis said, I'm not very sentimental. I won't go out of my way to be disloyal, but unless someone is very close to me, such as a family member, they are not guaranteed my loyalty. For me, loyalty is closely tied to respect. I am not loyal to someone I don't completely respect. If someone greatly offends my code of ethics, I will have absolutely no loyalty to them.

[coffeeloverfreak]

I'm the opposite of integratedvelocity: I'm loyal to people, but not necessarily to beliefs. I'll explain:

People who have been important to me in my life deserve my loyalty. My family and close friends are invaluable to me, and I will help them through thick and thin, and I know they will do the same for me. It's a strong part of my moral code that even if I don't always agree with someone, I will be there for them nevertheless.

Beliefs, on the other hand, require disloyalty, because taking things on faith implies a lack of openness. If I were to be loyal to, say, the belief that the earth was flat, despite overwhelming evidence of its roundness, that doesn't make me admirable, it simply makes me a fool. I feel the same way about most beliefs. For instance, if I choose a political alignment, and that same political party starts doing things I disagree with, then I'll break with them. I am much more loyal to my inner sense of right and wrong than to any external label or identifier.

[Des]

Yes I am. I'll stand by someone that has gained my trust. I'm also a loyal customer. If I'm happy with a service I see no reason to change. I have gone to the same bookstore, eye doctor and hair stylist for 20 years. I think that's loyalty.

[liger0]

Loyalty? What is this loyalty you speak of?

Oh, wait, you're referring to Alignment, right? Depending on the day I can be anywhere from Chaotic Neutral to Chaotic Evil.

[AgentofGaming]

I'm loyal to an extent with people: It depends on whether the other person deserves it.
Like a lab partner who doesn't do any work, and expects me to do it all let's just say this:
I will talk about that kind of person's negative facts to others.

My viewpoint tends to shift so, don't know about that

[integratedvelocity]

I guess I need a qualifier. I am loyal to beliefs and ideas that I have worked through without finding inconsistencies. If a current belief has been proven right several times, I am not likely to completely abandon it immediately. If I did, I wouldn't believe that DNA exists after a few abysmal biology labs. I would give it the benefit of the doubt and try to examine it objectively. I didn't mean blind loyalty, more like taking the time to reconcile the issue rather than throwing it over.

[colmdubh]

INTJ's are considered loyal to those ideas and people they deem worthy of loyalty. It has to do, at least with myself, of using deduction and intuition to judge what I believe I should be loyal to. If it something I feel strongly about I have a reason. A reason that is not easily shaken because I know why I feel loyal. I don't just have a feeling of loyalty for loyalty's sake

[pavman]

I am loyal.

Although I have a very intricate system of rules regarding relationships, closeness, who gets loyalty, who gets trust, and who doesn't, etc.

Basically, a minimal trust is given, but a real trust is earned. If you break the minimal trust... good luck getting back in the door. Yeah, I'm a prick, but life is too short for moruns.

Oh yeah, if you are one of those people that are special enough to gain full access, you get my loyalty til death. But that's really rare. There's a certain level that most people just won't get to...

As for beliefs, like coffeeloverfreak, I think about things and if the trust is broken (as in relationships), adios loyalty. I don't vote for the same party every year no matter what, and I don't subscribe to authority simply because they are in authority. I tend to judge these things with a different measure than people.

I judge people based on a number of factors, including how close the friendship is. If friend X does Y or says Z, then it depends on how close I am to that person as to whether or not I'll chalk it up to human error. If they're not close, chances are they're no longer friend if the situation warrants it.

[sriv]

I am extremely loyal to people that have my respect. Everyone that respects me and that I admire has my respect. According to my friends, my respect for them is hard to earn and often is influenced by the slightest of mistakes.

[INTJoe]

I'm fiercely loyal, and conversely, can hold a strong grudge against someone who has done me wrong.

I put people either up on a pedestal, or down in the trench. I think this is related to us being "compartmentalizers". We are constantly evaluating people and determining what we want to do with them. Jeez, that sounds bad. :rolleyes:

[Antares]

I don't hold grudges, but I'd make a point to myself to avoid him/her.

[Solaris]

This has made me think a lot. Good thread. I wanted to chime in and say that, so far, I agree with much of what has been posted. I need to go think about it some more and put things into a context for myself. On a most basic level, loyalty is a very strong thing in me. Like much about me, it tends to be an all or nothing aspect of my relationship with the object or person in question.

[Nightelf]

I am loyal to an idea, no matter what ohers think, as long as I convinced that it is true. Since I am searching for new explanations all the time - and this requires openess - it has happened in the past (and will happen in the furture) that I became an opposer of something I held true before. So my 'loyalty' is very different from the expression's traditional interpretation.... I would say I am 'loyal' or 'true' to my mission searching for answers.

[Uberfuhrer]

Yes, I am very loyal to people and ideas I agree with.

I also try to follow the rules, but that's not out of loyalty as much as my desire to not get in trouble. With that said, this doesn't stop me from being critical of them, and I will also push the limits and sometimes get in trouble for doing so.

[JTG]

I'm more loyal to ideas and sensibility than to people. I certainly care about people close to me, but i aspire to make sense and to surround myself with others who make sense. I have been called disloyal by friends when they take a position or action i find illogical or counter-productive, because i can't allow myself to back up something that's "wrong"

[Trivani]

I'm more loyal to ideas and sensibility than to people. I certainly care about people close to me, but i aspire to make sense and to surround myself with others who make sense. I have been called disloyal by friends when they take a position or action i find illogical or counter-productive, because i can't allow myself to back up something that's "wrong"

This is a lot like what I was planning on saying. I am often loyal to someone until I perceive that they have betrayed loyalty to themselves, the company we both work for, or the cause we are part of. Basically, I am loyal to ideas rather than people.

[Solaris]

Ok, so I've put a bit more thought into this. I am loyal to a few people, because they have earned their way into my circle. This is reserved for a special few. Also, like others here, I am loyal to ideas which I believe to be true, or correct. I am exceedingly stubborn about compromising these, and will not do so -- even in the face of damaging relationships with others. This goes back to my belief that being genuine all the time is the most important (ties into another thread somewhere).