Werewolves take IV: sign up and suggestions

[Hjordis]

So here we are on our fourth game already. I suppose we won't switch it up too much, but some suggestions have been made already. Yes kisai, I will attempt to make it balanced. I'll also clarify that nobody is to reveal their role without reason(i.e. the seer can to give information, the lawyer can if something like last game happens, but they can't just say I'm the thief what are you?) and that masons and wolves cannot do so under any circumstances.


The Maelstrom:
I was thinking of a dummy role. A GM controlled NPC who's vote is picked at random. It also offers players a scapegoat on a vote. We can call him Tom :)

I'd also suggest making the necromancer appear evil to the seer.

Thoughts?


Edits: Please post in the thread that you are, in fact, playing, even if you vote in the poll, as the poll is not public. You can, of course, wait until the final rules are posted to make a decision.

[Kisai]

The regular games are played without the GM revealing roles as the villagers die. That way anyone non-mason can still say anything they like. Masons still can't reveal masonry alignment.

[larkin]

I reiterate that I don't think there's anything wrong with revealing a role. People can always be believed or not; fake confessions are a big part of the game. But if them's the rules, so be it.

*edit* but, good point by kisai, games I've played irl you never know the role of the person you killed.

[NoStoneUnturned]

I reiterate that I don't think there's anything wrong with revealing a role. People can always be believed or not; fake confessions are a big part of the game.

That sounds like something an ENTP would say.... :p

[Hjordis]

Oh true, true. Reveal roles fine, don't reveal others'. So who all wants roles revealed after death and who wants them not to be?

[phej]

I'd agree with larkin about revealing a role. I don't think the GM should reveal the role either. Or if she does, there be a probability of revealing it or there be a probability of the reveal being wrong. (But, I don't like either.)

[jm123]

I think the roles should be revealed after a lynching, but not after a wolf kills someone. Presumably, no evidence would be left behind to know that persons role.

The poll is not set to public.

[Kisai]

To reiterate my points:

1) Anyone non-mason may say anything they like.

2) Anyone mason may say anything except reveal masonry alignment of themselves and others.

3) Roles are not revealed by the GM as death occurs.

Having played as a werewolf, mason, and villager, I can say that the game is between 3 factions, Masons, Villagers and Wolves. The wolves hide in the pool of Villagers. If they kill only villagers, its game over for them. The Masons have no overt powers, but the voting bloc and the smaller pool to choose from are a good advantage. Villagers are screwed and should be given a power to compensate.

[Hjordis]

I know it's not set to public. It's a visual approximation of how many people will be playing. People may change their minds, so you'll have to look in the thread to find out anyways.

---------- Post added 11-06-2009 at 05:32 PM ----------

To reiterate my points:

1) Anyone non-mason may say anything they like.

2) Anyone mason may say anything except reveal masonry alignment of themselves and others.

3) Roles are not revealed by the GM as death occurs.

Having played as a werewolf, mason, and villager, I can say that the game is between 3 factions, Masons, Villagers and Wolves. The wolves hide in the pool of Villagers. If they kill only villagers, its game over for them. The Masons have no overt powers, but the voting bloc and the smaller pool to choose from are a good advantage. Villagers are screwed and should be given a power to compensate.
Sounds good to me. Perhaps we should say good or evil upon a lynching, though? Just to give people SOME clue.

[Kisai]

I think the roles should be revealed after a lynching, but not after a wolf kills someone. Presumably, no evidence would be left behind to know that persons role.


I'd be willing to try this if there are no masons.

---------- Post added 11-06-2009 at 04:34 PM ----------


Sounds good to me. Perhaps we should say good or evil upon a lynching, though? Just to give people SOME clue.

That sounds fair.

[Hjordis]

Perhaps masons should be able to reveal that they are a mason though, as long as they don't betray others. That way wolves can claim to be masons if they so wish. Maybe not though. It's probably a bad idea. Never mind me.

[azelismia]

necromancer evil to seer. Yes.

I also think the necromancer needs to make all of his announcements in the night phase. I don't think he should be given a kill as well as bringing someone from the dead. otherwise they have way too much knowledge of what they are doing. it should be a little more randomized. maybe put a hour lag on when it's announced what the players role was and in that hour that necromancer has to announce if they bring them back or not and the role not be revealed to anyone if the necromancer brings them back to life

Roll reveal, (yeah we wear our shirts too high) yeah, I don't think the GM should announce exact role. I think they should announce alignment though. I also think the thief should be evil in alignment. they can go to either side. it also puts more question into what the seer gets back. I think the masons are still a good thing. When a game is equally balanced having the masons is an integral part of making it a balanced game. it makes it hard for everyone else to tell which faction is which. Role announcements: personally when it just happens in the game no big deal, but if everyone announces their roles are just a reveal to bring it down to a liars game then I say the wolves won the game. that's not what the game is about. why not just play a game of Liars?

[Hjordis]

necromancer evil to seer. Yes.

I also think the necromancer needs to make all of his announcements in the night phase. I don't think he should be given a kill as well as bringing someone from the dead. otherwise they have way too much knowledge of what they are doing. it should be a little more randomized. maybe put a hour lag on when it's announced what the players roll was and in that hour that necromancer has to announce if they bring them back or not and the roll not be revealed to anyone if the necromancer brings them back to life

Roll reveal, yeah, I don't think the GM should announce exact roll. I think they should announce alignment though. I also think the thief should be evil in alignment. they can go to either side. it also puts more question into what the seer gets back. I think the masons are still a good thing. When a game is equally balanced having the masons is an integral part of making it a balanced game. it makes it hard for everyone else to tell which faction is which. Roll announcements: personally when it just happens in the game no big deal, but if everyone announces their rolls are just a reveal to bring it down to a liars game then I say the wolves won the game. that's not what the game is about. why not just play a game of Liars?You mean if a necromancer brings back a wolf kill, and decides which night he wants to do it? Yeah, that sounds good. Just to clarify though, elf wasn't back for voting or anything. She was just the one that decided who the kill was, and then she went back to being dead.

Yeah, I agree. I never liked jim's plan and I still think it takes all the fun out. I'll add something in the instructions that says "'everyone reveal your roles' is not a valid strategy."

[jm123]

Alignment announcements only, would be ok as long as they occur on lynchings and killings. I could agree to have the thief and Necromancer showing up as evil on lynchings and killings. I do not agree with them showing up as evil to the seer. If there were 12 players like last game, that means 5 players would be revealed as evil, and it would completely skew the game in favor of the wolves.

Yeah I have to say individuals revealing their roles should be reserved to within an hour of voting and they have to be one of the top 2 vote getter's. Except for the seer, they should be able to reveal anytime they want.

[azelismia]

You mean if a necromancer brings back a wolf kill, and decides which night he wants to do it? Yeah, that sounds good. Just to clarify though, elf wasn't back for voting or anything. She was just the one that decided who the kill was, and then she went back to being dead.

Yeah, I agree. I never liked jim's plan and I still think it takes all the fun out. I'll add something in the instructions that says "'everyone reveal your roles' is not a valid strategy."

yeah something like that, I didn't realize that elfie wasn't actually back. What is the point of having two roles that can just randomly kill whoever they want? I thought the main role of the necromancer was to bring someone back from the dead?

[Hjordis]

Alignment announcements only, would be ok as long as they occur on lynchings and killings. I could agree to have the thief and Necromancer showing up as evil on lynchings and killings. I do not agree with them showing up as evil to the seer. If there were 12 players like last game, that means 5 players would be revealed as evil, and it would completely skew the game in favor of the wolves.

Yeah I have to say individuals revealing their roles should be reserved to within an hour of voting and they have to be one of the top 2 vote getter's. Except for the seer, they should be able to reveal anytime they want.
The killings are always innocent, silly.:p Yeah, that's why I was thinking only one of them should be evil. I like az's idea of the thief rather than the necromancer, though.
yeah something like that, I didn't realize that elfie wasn't actually back. What is the point of having two roles that can just randomly kill whoever they want? I thought the main role of the necromancer was to bring someone back from the dead?I thought it was that way originally as well. It's so that somebody who has information, quite likely the seer if they didn't get to reveal, but could be anybody, can kill someone after they're dead. That's why we should probably either keep it the way it is, or we should go with your idea that it's random and bring them back for good, but don't kill anybody.

[Elfrun]

You run a risk of complicating things too much by setting rules. The best game does not have restrictions on what people can do, rather it sets it up so the consequences of doing something doesn't help enough to make it worth it. Like revealing roles, people should be able to, it helps the wolves as much as the villagers to know specific roles, only there should be players without roles so it is impossible for everyone to come forward and win through deductive elimination. I agree on the not revealing others roles though.


So who all wants roles revealed after death and who wants them not to be?

I say no-no-no to not revealing them!

Keeping roles secret helps the wolves and slightly the masons but it takes away the ability of villagers to determine roles. Once again, if there are generic villager roles this should be a non-issue.


I also think the necromancer needs to make all of his announcements in the night phase. otherwise they have way too much knowledge of what they are doing.

Not really, the guess is only as good as what is thought to be true by the two players. My mason knowledge only ruled out two players. I see no issue with the necro player deciding during night phase that they want to necro someone though.

One thing I mentioned to TM last game privately was the lawyer deciding on who they want to save during night phase meant they could pick someone that the wolves kill before they have a chance, therefore I think the lawyer and necro should be allowed an extra time gap to pick, this could be done by announcing the wolf kill slightly earlier.

[Hjordis]

Eh the problem with players without roles is that the game is incredibly boring for them. At least, it was when I was the miller and the seer was dead, which is basically the same thing.

[Elfrun]

Eh the problem with players without roles is that the game is incredibly boring for them. At least, it was when I was the miller and the seer was dead, which is basically the same thing.

Sure, that is a side effect. Then more than one player with the same role?

Honestly I doubt a big reveal would ever actually happen for the reason mentioned here, it takes much of the fun out of the game as it forces the wolves to lie outright, personally I wouldn't want to reveal my role during the game, even if I was innocent, I'd rather people figured it out based on how I was playing and I don't think I'm the only one.

[The Maelstrom]

Also, when and if making a 'private' forum for one or more groups, make the name nondistinct. Something like To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. instead of the masons' lodge....

[Hjordis]

Fine! would everybody be happy if I wrote "while a mass reveal is allowed, this strategy takes the fun out of the game and proposing it gives all the other players the right to shun you."?

[phej]

Fine! would everybody be happy if I wrote "while a mass reveal is allowed, this strategy takes the fun out of the game and proposing it gives all the other players the right to shun you."?

ooh. That's a good one.

[Elfrun]

Ya-hu :)

[azelismia]

You run a risk of complicating things too much by setting rules. The best game does not have restrictions on what people can do, rather it sets it up so the consequences of doing something doesn't help enough to make it worth it. Like revealing roles, people should be able to, it helps the wolves as much as the villagers to know specific roles, only there should be players without roles so it is impossible for everyone to come forward and win through deductive elimination. I agree on the not revealing others roles though.




I say no-no-no to not revealing them!

Keeping roles secret helps the wolves and slightly the masons but it takes away the ability of villagers to determine roles. Once again, if there are generic villager roles this should be a non-issue.




Not really, the guess is only as good as what is thought to be true by the two players. My mason knowledge only ruled out two players. I see no issue with the necro player deciding during night phase that they want to necro someone though.

One thing I mentioned to TM last game privately was the lawyer deciding on who they want to save during night phase meant they could pick someone that the wolves kill before they have a chance, therefore I think the lawyer and necro should be allowed an extra time gap to pick, this could be done by announcing the wolf kill slightly earlier.


I absolutely disagree here. they are given an unfair advantage at that point. they know results from the day before that the others did not have at the time of their pick.

[larkin]

Fine! would everybody be happy if I wrote "while a mass reveal is allowed, this strategy takes the fun out of the game and proposing it gives all the other players the right to shun you."?

ooh. That's a good one.

Uh, not everyone would be happy. That sounds a touch harsh, actually. Perfectly good strategy for winning after four rounds of play.

[azelismia]

Uh, not everyone would be happy. That sounds a touch harsh, actually. Perfectly good strategy for winning after four rounds of play.


it's true though, it's ruining the game. you are the only one in favor of it.

[larkin]

First - the game had two rounds left at most, let's all take a step back from the abyss. Second - Kisai didn't have to cave. Again, if people want to say you can say this or can't say that, fine, but I think it suffers from too many rules already.

But whatever, do your thing.

[The Maelstrom]

First - the game had two rounds left at most, let's all take a step back from the abyss. Second - Kisai didn't have to cave. Again, if people want to say you can say this or can't say that, fine, but I think it suffers from too many rules already.

But whatever, do your thing.

There aren't really that many rules at the moment. There are conditions to be fulfilled for an ability to be played and there's talk on how to adjust those parameters to balance things out. With the Necro summoning a mason, it was a little overpowered just like that for example. Enforcing rules on identities really depends on the balance of the game. If we had 5 wolves in the last scenario and the same number of everyone else, it's less of a problem to ask midgame for a mass reveal, because you'll get results, and you may outnumber the wolves, but they're not in a position to lose right at the start of the game.

The only reason it may seem like there are too many rules at this point is because of all the conditions imposed on dead people, who for simplicity's sake, shouldn't really be talking at all.
I tried to work it in because I know dead players still want to be a part of the group even if they can't do anything.

[phej]

The masons are the ones with the most incentive to reveal their roles: assuming the villagers accept what they say, it quickly brings the game to an end because of the power shift. How about this as a balance: if anybody makes a claim for being a mason, then during the night the GM will kill the person making the claim with no information about alignment or role?

[Seriously]

First - the game had two rounds left at most, let's all take a step back from the abyss. Second - Kisai didn't have to cave. Again, if people want to say you can say this or can't say that, fine, but I think it suffers from too many rules already.

But whatever, do your thing.

For me the whole point of the game is having to use your powers of deduction. Everyone announcing their roles might win the game but it negates the whole point of it.

Just my opinion. :)

I also have a pet peeve about dead people talking. YOU ARE DEAD DEAL WITH IT.

[phej]

But, it's in the wolfie's best interest at misdirection, so I think they should it should be ok to claim that you have a role.

But yeah, dead characters should leave.

[Seriously]

Can't people try and be subtle? Hint at their role instead of outright saying what it is? Let people actually have to use their own brains to figure things out?

[phej]

That's one of my reasons for the prohibition on claiming to be a mason: you have to use subtlety to prove that you're a mason w/o outright saying that you're one.

'sides they're a secret group and sticking to their group means secrecy about who the members are.

[Kisai]

First - the game had two rounds left at most, let's all take a step back from the abyss. Second - Kisai didn't have to cave. .

Kisai's prediction:

Larkin: I'm a mason.
SMB: I'm a mason too.
Hacker: I'm a necro
NSU: I'm a thief
Kisai: Umm... I'm a thief too?

There's no way I could survive two rounds of that. There's no way I could claim to be a role that's already been announced dead by the GM. Whereas I might have survived to the end if I could have misdirected the players. Unlikely, but worth a shot which I was willing to give.

Wolves hide in the non-mason set. If Masons just blurt out their role, its like deputizing the whole town into masonry. It shares their advantage of shrinking the non-mason pool.

---------- Post added 11-07-2009 at 10:12 AM ----------

That's one of my reasons for the prohibition on claiming to be a mason: you have to use subtlety to prove that you're a mason w/o outright saying that you're one.

'sides they're a secret group and sticking to their group means secrecy about who the members are.

The mason's have an advantage if they can convince the villagers of their trust.

However, wolves should be taking out masons if they want to win. Only the seer should have higher priority. Wolves and masons can look alike to the set of non-mason villagers and wolves can use that to their advantage.

---------- Post added 11-07-2009 at 10:20 AM ----------

But, it's in the wolfie's best interest at misdirection, so I think they should it should be ok to claim that you have a role.


That works for everything except claiming you are mason (or wolf). The shared knowledge of masonry can't be faked.




But yeah, dead characters should leave.

Yes. They are way too distracting. It's like letting non-players in poker flit about, seeing other people's cards. Even if they intend not to say anything, other people are looking at their reactions for subtle hints.

Plus, not talking adds suspense to nighttime and players should voice their suspicions before they are dead, not after.

[phej]

Kisai, so what rule would add then?

[azelismia]

Kisai's prediction:

Larkin: I'm a mason.
SMB: I'm a mason too.
Hacker: I'm a necro
NSU: I'm a thief
Kisai: Umm... I'm a thief too?

There's no way I could survive two rounds of that. There's no way I could claim to be a role that's already been announced dead by the GM. Whereas I might have survived to the end if I could have misdirected the players. Unlikely, but worth a shot which I was willing to give.

Wolves hide in the non-mason set. If Masons just blurt out their role, its like deputizing the whole town into masonry. It shares their advantage of shrinking the non-mason pool.

---------- Post added 11-07-2009 at 10:12 AM ----------



The mason's have an advantage if they can convince the villagers of their trust.

However, wolves should be taking out masons if they want to win. Only the seer should have higher priority. Wolves and masons can look alike to the set of non-mason villagers and wolves can use that to their advantage.

---------- Post added 11-07-2009 at 10:20 AM ----------



That works for everything except claiming you are mason (or wolf). The shared knowledge of masonry can't be faked.






Yes. They are way too distracting. It's like letting non-players in poker flit about, seeing other people's cards. Even if they intend not to say anything, other people are looking at their reactions for subtle hints.

Plus, not talking adds suspense to nighttime and players should voice their suspicions before they are dead, not after.

Kisai, no one was revealing anything except for Larkin. no one else liked that idea. the game would have lasted longer.

[Hjordis]

I've heard no discussion of a random vote drawn from a hat by the GM(I believe it would be drawn at the same time the wolf kill is announced. TM? Is that what you were thinking?). I don't have much opinion either way.

Sorry larkin, looks like you're outnumbered. While it won't be an outright rule, it will be noted that other players don't like mass reveals in the rules(and the shunning was a joke, sheesh.)

Elf, looks like you're outnumbered. Others want to try not having roles revealed upon death. I will reveal alignment, however.

I think it's better to have the seer misdirected a bit, so the thief can appear evil, though I don't think the whole village needs to be misdirected, so upon lynching they should appear good. Thoughts?

Still deciding about single reveals it seems.

I think I'll keep the necro the way it is.

In that case I'll make it so dead people can't talk at all.

[Kisai]

I've heard no discussion of a random vote drawn from a hat by the GM(I believe it would be drawn at the same time the wolf kill is announced. TM? Is that what you were thinking?). I don't have much opinion either way.


It makes it harder for the villagers. Maybe next game.

[azelismia]

I've heard no discussion of a random vote drawn from a hat by the GM(I believe it would be drawn at the same time the wolf kill is announced. TM? Is that what you were thinking?). I don't have much opinion either way.

Sorry larkin, looks like you're outnumbered. While it won't be an outright rule, it will be noted that other players don't like mass reveals in the rules(and the shunning was a joke, sheesh.)

Elf, looks like you're outnumbered. Others want to try not having roles revealed upon death. I will reveal alignment, however.

I think it's better to have the seer misdirected a bit, so the thief can appear evil, though I don't think the whole village needs to be misdirected, so upon lynching they should appear good. Thoughts?

Still deciding about single reveals it seems.

I think I'll keep the necro the way it is.

In that case I'll make it so dead people can't talk at all.

I think the necro has too much power as it is. but W/e. I do think on death the thief should have a good alignment if they had not taken on a wolf persona and bad if they had.

[Hjordis]

Yeah, I think the necro has a lot of power, but most of the changes are in favor of the wolves, so I think it'll balance out.

[phej]

Just outta curiosity can you post the full rules for the next game. I haven't decided if I want to join in or not.

Also, the poll is private so I can't see who's playing or not.

[Hjordis]

Yes, I know the poll is private. I didn't want people to be able to see who's playing because they're SUPPOSED to post in the thread as well. I can't change it now anyways.

The rules aren't completely final, but I'll post them in a second.

---------- Post added 11-07-2009 at 04:12 PM ----------

Current rules(they still might be changed a little.)

The Game

DAY (24 hours): All players have one day to decide which player they want to see hang. Discussions/accusations/threats all happen in the thread and votes can be made at any stage during that period. Please note you can change your vote all you want up until the deadline just please be sure to bold your votes and add the +++ tag so they stand out.

e.g.: I vote +++ Player Name

ONLY BOLDED AND TAGGED VOTES WILL COUNT!

Day phase ends with one player being sent to the gallows, if they die their alignment is publicly revealed and then the night time phase begins.

NIGHT (24 hours): During the night, all the villagers with night abilities let me know their target and the wolves let me know who they want to eat. At the end of night phase I will announce the target of the wolf attack.

The villagers win if they eliminate the werewolves, the wolves win if they bring the villagers' numbers down to theirs at the end of a day.

The Rules

You must stay loyal to your team. This means you do not reveal the roles of the other masons/wolves, though you may reveal your own role(tentative). If you do reveal the roles of others you must duel the GM. The GM always wins.

While mass reveals are allowed as a strategy, keep in mind that many players believe it takes the fun out of the game and won't be happy with you.

If you die you are dead. You can't post anymore. If you are a villager, keep coming on in case you are revived by the necromancer.

Proxies:

You may resort to a proxy if absolutely necessary. This cannot include any active player, aka alive in game, nor can it include any player with group knowledge of an opposing team. That means you can't get a dead mason to proxy for a wolf for example. Dead villagers can proxy for one player on either side. A dead Seer cannot proxy for anyone.


PROXIES CANNOT PROXY FOR MORE THAN ONE PERSON AND THEY MUST REMAIN SILENT PUBLICLY AND PRIVATELY ABOUT ANY INFORMATION THEY OBTAIN DURING THEIR TENURE UNTIL AFTER THE GAME IS OVER.

Villagers (includes masons outside of emergency meeting) can only talk in this thread.

The Roles

EVIL 3 Werewolves - You vote as a pack on who to maul at night. You will be given a forum for private discussions at all times.

INNOCENT 9 Villagers, including;

3 Freemasons - you are part of a secret organization and each know the identities of the other Freemasons. They can only communicate publicly with the exception of one emergency meeting that will be activated as soon as the GM receives the request from at least half the remaining masons. This does not mean you can PM each other to see if its a good time. You're going to have to interpret the situation and your fellow masons' needs/ideas in the public game and PM the GM individually. Upon PMing the GM, you will have 10 minutes to cancel your request. If no other masons join the request, you can cancel at any time before they join up. After at least half of the masons have requested an emergency meeting, they will all be notified within 5 minutes via PM (after the initial 10 minute delay period) with a link to the masons' lodge to be used for a 24 hr period, after which it will be locked.

1 Seer - each night select one player, the narrator will privately reveal the alignment of that player, NOT their role should they prove to be an innocent. Due to undetermined alignment, the seer will see the thief as evil.

1 Healer - each night select one player, if that player was the target of the werewolf attack for that night, they will be protected and not die

1 Lawyer - each night select one player, if that player is chosen to be lynched the during the coming day, they are saved by the lawyer

1 Hunter - if the hunter is killed, they chose another player to take out with them - they have a 1hr time limit for an assured kill, and a 10hr limit (from time of mauling or lynching) for a coin toss on whether or not their shot kills the target. After this the hunter CANNOT kill anyone.

1 Necromancer - an innocent who can manipulate the dead. The necromancer can revive a dead player one time, and one time only and must make a joint decision with the undead on who they want to kill within 24 hrs. Reviving a player must be announced to the GM via PM. If the dead person doesn't get in contact with you or reach a decision within the 24 hr period, you lose the chance to kill someone. You must first PM me the player to be revived, and then I will notify them. Once that is done the 24hr period begins where you have to both agree to kill someone. Note that the revived person is only being revived to kill someone and then goes back to being dead. They are not back for good.

1 Thief - a villager who has a one off ability to steal a role off a corpse, at any stage in the game the thief can privately request the role of the next player to be successfully lynched along with any information they had been given by the narrator (i.e. all the results of the seer's sights). There will be a public announcement of the role that has been stolen as well as an announcement that the thief has taken control of it. This means the thief can become a wolf. The thief will ONLY get the role of the NEXT person to be lynched. Thus, you cannot take the role of someone lynched just a minute ago, you must decide beforehand.

Additionally there is 1 Judge role (a villager whose vote counts twice in the event of a tie) this is not a fixed role, if the judge is killed or their power used it will be inherited randomly by another innocent (but not the thief). The judge will know that they are the judge, and if they do not vote for either of the tied players they must PM me their vote.

Any questions you have about your role may be PMed to me, and if necessary I will reveal the answer publicly.


Times

Each day/night period will end at GMT 02:30. I will announce the victim of a lynching approximately 10 minutes after voting ends in order to account for last minute vote changes.

[HackerX]

The regular games are played without the GM revealing roles as the villagers die. That way anyone non-mason can still say anything they like. Masons still can't reveal masonry alignment.

The regular games are also played in close proximity of everyone playing where you actually hear the inflection in each person's voice. It really doesn't work half as well on a forum like this.

I have an idea for a ruleset which might have much the same effect, but I will save it to GM the next game after this one.

[Synamon]

If people aren't abiding by the basic rules of the game, how does making more rules that they won't follow solve anything? Why not just eliminate the rules altogether?

[Hjordis]

If people aren't abiding by the basic rules of the game, how does making more rules that they won't follow solve anything? Why not just eliminate the rules altogether?Most people are following the rules. The additional rules aren't meant to solve anything other than the imbalance anyways, and most of them have to do with specific functions of individual roles, which isn't so much rules as game mechanics.

[phej]

You must stay loyal to your team. This means you do not reveal the roles of the other masons/wolves, though you may reveal your own role(tentative). If you do reveal the roles of others you must duel the GM. The GM always wins.

Then this means that the wolves cannot use the strategy of throwing an accusation to one of their teammates as misdirection to split the lynching vote.

If you die you are dead. You can't post anymore. If you are a villager, keep coming on in case you are revived by the necromancer.

This rule is too tempting to break. Is there a less restrictive variety?

Also, can the necromancer be counted with an evil alignment?

[The Maelstrom]

This rule is too tempting to break. Is there a less restrictive variety?

Also, can the necromancer be counted with an evil alignment?

Yeah, I found the necro too powerful by itself. Giving it an evil alignment to a seer could help work against it.

[Hjordis]

I can make the necro evil, but I'd have to make the thief good, or then the seer is useless. I shall though.

Wolves can accuse their teammates. They just can't state outright that x is a wolf after they've been caught the way az did last time. I don't think it's a very good strategy anyways. When Az tried it, she said she was doing so to last another day, but since she was certain and he wasn't it wouldn't have bought her any time anyways, so I don't know that anyone believed her. Can you think of a situation where it WOULD be useful?

Edit: about talking, I agree, and I don't see a problem with the way TM had it last time, but it seems people don't want ANY talking from dead people. *shrugs*

[The Maelstrom]

I'm surprised there are actually "no" votes. Thank god we aren't playing diplomacy...

[Seriously]

Dead people talking is distracting. They also have a tendency to give things away and/or try and explain their actions in the game which in turn gives things away.

[Kisai]

Most players are good with being quiet postmortem. Some players don't know when to quit.

'Being loyal to your team' means, to me, that you're playing so that your faction will win. If you have to throw a member to the wolves, then c'est la vie.

[The Maelstrom]

The big issue I think at the moment is mass reveals. Essentially, the game is designed for people to say whatever they want to further their own agendas. On the flipside, doing a mass reveal takes all the fun out of it if the wolves are outnumbered by more than 1.5x their number.

My thoughts on this is you can insinuate whatever you want about another, for masons and wolves, you really shouldn't be announcing them. Confirming them if they themselves reveal themselves should be accepted. Its one of the few ways dwindling masons can hope to make a stand. Also, for example, a wolf fingering another wolf as a means of deception, like if they're about to hang. I think back to Azzy pointing fingers at NSU. Seems like she's being blatantly poor at framing someone, but at the same time makes you wonder: could it just be an act?

[Hjordis]

I'm surprised there are actually "no" votes. Thank god we aren't playing diplomacy...Well one of them is mine, some people are probably fed up with the game, and some people just need to vote in the poll. I'm more worried about the 3 yeses, as I still don't know who they are.

'Being loyal to your team' means, to me, that you're playing so that your faction will win. If you have to throw a member to the wolves, then c'est la vie.

yes, but masons need to stay alive, and if you throw another mason to the wolves that confirms two masons, which leaves one, who then has less power than anyone else.

My thoughts on this is you can insinuate whatever you want about another, for masons and wolves, you really shouldn't be announcing them. Confirming them if they themselves reveal themselves should be accepted. Its one of the few ways dwindling masons can hope to make a stand. Also, for example, a wolf fingering another wolf as a means of deception, like if they're about to hang. I think back to Azzy pointing fingers at NSU. Seems like she's being blatantly poor at framing someone, but at the same time makes you wonder: could it just be an act?
Yes, I suppose so. I'll fix it when I'm in a better mood. Right now I'm a bit cranky cause I just had to perform on a broken twisted ankle with a sore throat. We don't have enough players yet anyways, so it seems we'll have plenty of time.

See! You don't want me making rules when I'm cranky. I'm even stupider at those times.

[Elfrun]

I suggest creating a new thread with a public poll and asking a mod to remove this poll then merge the two threads so you can see if people are playing.

[Hjordis]

I suggest people post like they're supposed to.>:-(

Hoookay, I'll do it in the morning. I'm going to bed soon.

[azelismia]

I suggest creating a new thread with a public poll and asking a mod to remove this poll then merge the two threads so you can see if people are playing.


I was just looking for this thread to write exactly this. It's already been said.

[Hjordis]

Ugh. I've been ill, so I only checked in for a few seconds yesterday. If there's not enough interest for a 4th round we may have to abort the project, or at least put it on hold. anyways, poll fixed.

[The Maelstrom]

Ugh. I've been ill, so I only checked in for a few seconds yesterday. If there's not enough interest for a 4th round we may have to abort the project, or at least put it on hod. anyways, poll fixed.

Hod eh? :suspicious:

[Hjordis]

Yes, hod. He's my hobo friend. He's good at finding people to play games, so we'd put the task of finding new recruits on him until he got them, then I'd take it from there. Yeah, that's what I meant to say.:anxious:

[The Maelstrom]

That can be the random Non Player Character. Hod, the blacksmith. Or maybe Griswold... :thinking:

[HackerX]

That can be the random Non Player Character. Hod, the blacksmith. Or maybe Griswold... :thinking:

oooh, can I be Deckard Cain?

I'll just quote: "Stay awhile, and listen" over and over until people get sick of it.


Ok, poll added. I'm sure people can get over the fact that it's multiple choice. I didn't want to prevent people telling me I'm an idiot.

[azelismia]

oooh, can I be Deckard Cain?

I'll just quote: "Stay awhile, and listen" over and over until people get sick of it.


Ok, poll added. I'm sure people can get over the fact that it's multiple choice. I didn't want to prevent people telling me I'm an idiot.


dammit Hacker you've fooled me with that poll, "do i wish to be eaten by a wolfie", that's going to end up on the She said thread isn't it!

[phej]

"Stay awhile, and listen."

[The Maelstrom]

I've always known he said "Stay awhile, and listen" but it always sounded like "glisten" to me. Making me wonder for what purposes he wanted me to stay around...:thinking:

[phej]

I've always known he said "Stay awhile, and listen" but it always sounded like "glisten" to me. Making me wonder for what purposes he wanted me to stay around...:thinking:

He is, perhaps, a dirty old man.

[The Maelstrom]

Now that we're on the topic... anyone ever bother to make a crushing blow bowazon? ;D I considered it for a bit before I stopped playing.

[azelismia]

no one wants to play. looks like we are wolfed out.

[phej]

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[Hjordis]

whoops. I accidentally put yes. I guess the GM could be either though. Eh, whatever. It's been a long day and I'm still sick.

[azelismia]

this might be a sign that people do not like the new rules. maybe we should try again on the rules. (or take a way some as that seemed to be the main complaint.) I guess we could have an anarchist version where anything goes or extra points for creatively breaking the rules

[Hjordis]

I think people are just tired after 3 rounds straight. I still don't see that there are that many rules, Mostly we slightly redefined roles and changed the structure, which is quite different from rules. If you think it's because people dislike those changes though, we could still go with something else. The people who aren't happy would have to tell me what they want or I can't do anything, though. I can't get everyone to agree and I went with what seemed to be the most popular at the time. *shrugs*

[The Maelstrom]

I think people are just tired after 3 rounds straight.

This one.

[Seriously]

Are their other versions of the game? Maybe one with vampires instead of wolves? Something to change it up a bit perhaps?

[azelismia]

there is a mafia version.

mafia is similar but the roles look different somewhat

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[Hjordis]

Well we could try completely different villager roles, but I couldn't determine how equal it would be if we did that. We could send out people more friendly than I to recruit new players. I'm not really in a hurry either. I've had a lot to do lately, and I'll not even be on tomorrow.

[azelismia]

what if we only played with one villain character but that character can recruit two people over the night phase. No masons. in the night phase if they choose to recruit they can't kill for that phase. (or something like that)

[jm123]

I will join in after my semester is done, but that is 12-16.

[Hjordis]

I will join in after my semester is done, but that is 12-16.
Sounds good to me. My winter break starts the weekend after that, though we have a week of new classes before that.:blank: Stupid trimester schedule.