How to fake normal social behavior when meeting new people

[qwerty]

I have seen the 'what makes an intj' post but thought this question varied enough to warrant a new topic.

Ok so I've always known I was different to most people and that never really worried me but the trouble is that I need to interact with people to go forward and accomplish new feats.

At some point around age 12 I realized that in order to carry out my experiments and follow my thoughts then I needed to stop my parents worrying about me (socially) and I had to make a few friends to gather variable insight from. So to do this I had to make a conscious decision to make people like me and put them at ease. At first it was hard because I had no experience so I began observing and copying how people respond to one another. I learnt that talking was extremely valuable to others and that listening and paying attention to what they were saying made them like me. Jokes and humor were next and so on and so forth. I guess that the process was aided greatly by seeing people like ticking clocks and understanding the deeper matters below the surface I just never could relate to them.

At the current stage in my life I am able to fit in with just about any group of people and seem to seen as a social butterfly (most people would describe me as extroverted because of it), but the trouble is that everything is a conscious effort and I spend most of my nights recharging and playing out the situations that I see during the day to refine my outside self. Ironically the process of becoming 'normal' has robbed me of the gold (being able to pursue my thoughts) although every once in a while I get the wafting smell of it in the wee hours of the morning so things are so bad.

So, as this is a discovery sort of thing, I'm wondering does anyone else do that sort of thing just to survive if so maybe shed some war tales and if not then what sort of person am I a shoe in the right direction?

[Guido]

I never had trouble interacting with people on an intellectual level, and usually had 1 to 2 close friends. Maybe I was just lucky with the people that were around at the time. Throughout high school, I found most people to be 10 years younger than me mentally (except for a few choice people) so I never really took real interest in girls at that point, except for a few crushes. It wasn't until I was 19 that I found this girl that I really liked, but I had absolutely no idea how to talk to her. She had already broken the ice, which really is the hard work, but talking to her was rather cumbersome. The only way I knew how to interact with her was helping her with her math or physics, or teaching her how to solve a Rubik's cube. As hilarious as that sounds to me now... it naturally didn't turn out so well. What made things worse, was that guys I didn't respect worth shit had infinitely better girl skills than I. This simply would not do, and it lit a fire under my ass to change it.

When I went off to McGill, (Yes, I was 19. No I didn't fail. The school systems in Quebec are weird.) I met one of my best friends who was an eccentric ENFP. Apparently with this mix, each person feels like the other's student. I learned a ton from this guy. I was in awe of his social charisma, and his social manipulation skills. He was always so at ease around people. He would talk to anyone and everyone constantly. But the amount of information he would pull out of them... mind boggling. He always had a purpose with what he wanted to know, even though most people never saw it other than me. I realized at this point that this guy had a huge edge that I didn't. Whether I like it or not, I'm stuck in a world where I have to interact with people. If I wanted to get a girlfriend, work with other people, or do anything with anyone, social skills are invaluable. That's when I really started to take an interest in how people socialize.

Like you, I started memorizing everything I could. Noticing how people interacted and trying to mimic them at first, then moving onto more complicated things. The trickiest thing I found was trying to master my own body language. Naturally, I'm not at ease socially and if people pick up on that, they aren't at ease either. The whole name of the game is trying to make the other person comfortable. Small talk for me now isn't so hard, even though it's something I generally avoid if possible. But say I'm in a restaurant, I don't have much trouble talking with the waiter/waitress a bit and asking them what they think of the place or what they think of the food I'm about to order. A lot of people know useful information, and it's just so easy to ask sometimes.

Many may even consider me an extravert at work because of how vocal I can be. For my work place right now, I run the place I swear. For the most part, I prefer to stay in the background and silently do my job. If there are 'political' events, I am usually drawn into the middle of it which I don't mind so much. I don't mind so much because I can control the situation and the outcome is usually a ton better with my input and political pull. My socializing occurs during work (which I'm stuck there anyways with people) or once or twice during the week with some close friends, so most of my time off I still prefer to spend alone, so I still really consider myself to be an introvert. I think it's important to establish boundaries with friends so that they know you still want to spend a lot of your time alone, otherwise you can get caught up in the whole social thing and get stuck in a life you don't really want.

There are a couple draw backs to this however. I sometimes feel I am pretending to be a friend when I don't necessarily find them very interesting. This is completely against my nature, but it seems to be a socializing fundamental. Also, although I don't manipulate people often, I find myself to be very adept at it. This also seems to be a socializing fundamental, as socializing often involves people doing things for others that they wouldn't normally do. I don't really mean manipulate in a negative context, even though I guess it could be used as such, but I just can't think of a better word.

I would recommend to any INTJ out there that hasn't done so already, to take an interest in how people socialize. Even if it's not to socialize yourself, thoroughly understanding how others work around you is invaluable.

I've never put any of this into words before... so hopefully this makes some sense.

[Sigrdrifa]

Growing up, I was shy and didn't have a lot of friends but, like qwerty, I felt like I needed to make friends so my family wouldn't worry about me. It seemed very important to be popular, more so than making good grades - particularly since I am female.

I always felt bad about being so introverted and constantly wished I was more outgoing but it just wasn't in me. However, since I've gotten older, I feel comfortable with myself. I know my introversion is part of the package and there is absolutely nothing wrong with preferring quiet and solitude at times. Getting married helped me realize a lot of this too. There are people in the world I enjoy being with and others that I don't (i.e. loud and overbearing personalities). Trying to make small talk is a chore and frankly boring as hell! I'd rather spend time with one or two people I can talk with comfortably about many things than go to a party and try to find a topic some idiot might be interested in and won't think it odd to discuss.

Nevertheless, Guido, you are right, understanding how people socialize is very important as well as knowing how to socialize to some degree - particularly in the work place. Knowing how to socialize can determine whether you get the job or get promoted in your current job…but when I get home, it’s usually the last thing I want to do!

[Tactical Panda]

Oh, I also remember the now-distant family worries... and the never-distant need to 'recharge'.

One of the first things that helped me in this area was a school interview exercise. Just ask reasonable open ended questions that make people think as if you were interviewing them. I've refined it and have more tools at my disposal, but the friendly but interested interview mindset has remained useful.

[xxx]

So, as this is a discovery sort of thing, I'm wondering does anyone else do that sort of thing just to survive if so maybe shed some war tales and if not then what sort of person am I a shoe in the right direction?
I read somewhere that all INTJs go through this stage and because of it their 30s are happier than their 20s
I have developed my social skills and each year I notice the difference and that forces me to try new stuff and meet new people
I have tried telemarketing; market study interviews...feasibility studies,
even got an internship with respectful firm, even thou later I noticed how poor are my social skills

I came to conclusion that I most try new places and new people each while because when you develop your social skills, you can really be someone else.
And to take advantage of that and to see the difference in how people react to you, try it with new people, because old people have already created their first impression of you

[ThunderCats]

I'm an INTP, but I figure some INTJs would have the same issues. I don't make a good first impression socially. I don't say rude things and I'm nice, but I'm not good with small talk and getting to know someone in the beginning. I find it boring, but I still want to be social. I want to get past the getting to know a new friend phase and after that I'm fine. People seem to like me the longer they know me, but it's hard to get to the point that they know me at all. I like to just skip all the "how are your doing?" kinds of talk and just get to business, but very few people are like that.

[Silverity]

Hm, try asking open ended questions? It stimulates conversation and shows interest.

[cannotseethe]

I have a couple gimmicks I use to get through social situations, like parties or meeting a new person, that I think might make me feel anxious.

One is that I'll read the newspaper for a few days before the event and pick out a couple stories that I think will be interesting to most people. I learn a few things about those stories and am armed to talk about them. That way if there's ever a lull in a conversation, I have a few "hey, did you read about such-and-such?" Bar rules apply here: no politics, no religion...

The second is that I'll make up a goal for myself, something ridiculous that I keep entirely to myself. Like, I'll try to get someone to say the word rutabaga without my directly prompting them to say it (and then I have to turn away and giggle for a minute if someone does). One that I use often is: go as long as I possibly can without talking about what I do for a living (that question bothers me on a lot of levels anyway). The trick with the last one is to dodge the question without making the other person suspicious that you're dodging the question and without sounding awkward. So you have to polish your conversational skills to become good at it.

I find these really work for me. The key, I think, is to feel like you're in charge of the situation. Not in charge as in alpha male in charge, but in charge of yourself. Which, of course, you are, but sometimes you have to remind yourself of that and little gimmicks help at times by keeping you from getting too lost in the situation.

I second Silverity, too. Open ended questions are really good. Another thing is to find one of those lists of questions for couples and memorize a few of those questions. Most of them are silly but some are interesting (and are good for getting to know anyone, not just a partner).

[ThunderCats]

Did someone else ask the same question, because I thought I started a new thread?

Anyway, open ended questions are a good idea. Also acting like you are positive and happy about things helps. Like, I love living in this area or I really enjoy my job. It's better to put off bitching about your life until you've known someone for a while.

[Silverity]

Did someone else ask the same question, because I thought I started a new thread?

Anyway, open ended questions are a good idea. Also acting like you are positive and happy about things helps. Like, I love living in this area or I really enjoy my job. It's better to put off bitching about your life until you've known someone for a while.

You did, I think it got merged. That threw me for a loop too, haha.

Another trick I use is to find interesting or thought provoking news articles, recent events that I can use as opening chit chat that still has substance.

[ThunderCats]

You did, I think it got merged. That threw me for a loop too, haha.

Another trick I use is to find interesting or thought provoking news articles, recent events that I can use as opening chit chat that still has substance.

wow...i'm so original...the wording to the question was exactly the same.

talking about current events works for some people, but with some people it goes over their heads. what seems to work on small talk kind of people is stories like how some guy killed a bunch of people and how horrible that is.

[Cooper]

The Book of Questions...It gets a bit deep for small talk but it works. I have a hard time talking about "That guy who killed all those people, isn't it horrible?" because I don't have the empathy required to answer that in a socially acceptable manner. That in itself causes me to question myself.

[Silverity]

The Book of Questions...It gets a bit deep for small talk but it works. I have a hard time talking about "That guy who killed all those people, isn't it horrible?" because I don't have the empathy required to answer that in a socially acceptable manner. That in itself causes me to question myself.

It's interesting that you say that. I notice, here (Vancouver) when an event like that happens no one reacts in a "oh my god, that's so horrible!" type fashion, they are far more desensitized and removed from the issue. I find it is more common to hear comments like, "Huh.", "That sucks.", "You know, if he had climbed the balcony he might have escaped police..." etc.

Maybe I hang out with the wrong people.

The point is merely to get the ball rolling, you make a comment, they answer, you summarize, conclude and then get to the business.

I should mention, the beginning posts seem to ask about conversation in general, whereas in answering Thunder I was thinking of situations where the conversation had a distinct point "the business" as it were, and so I am offering suggestions that aim only to expand the conversation so that it is not as clipped (which could be taken as abrupt, rude, disinterested, or what have you). I am dismal at meaningless chit chat and try my best to avoid situations where it occurs.

[ThunderCats]

The Book of Questions...It gets a bit deep for small talk but it works. I have a hard time talking about "That guy who killed all those people, isn't it horrible?" because I don't have the empathy required to answer that in a socially acceptable manner. That in itself causes me to question myself.

I have sort of the same issue. I'm not good at consoling people when they tell me bad news. It's not like I don't care, I just don't know what to say. Like if someone told me one of their relatives died, I couldn't give a really sincere sounding "I'm so sorry" or whatever you're supposed to say, but I'd drive them to the airport and take care of their dog while they're gone.

[t3hrubikscube]

I'm a very poor conversationalist, but that's mostly because I'm so shy and I think I'm so boring. I know how to play the game and I know how to work a conversation, but I'm just not good at executing it most of the time.

People normally like to talk about themselves, so just keep asking open-ended/vague questions and you should be fine.

[millifly]

"Normal" people remember to smile. Maybe lean in a little bit too. It also involves taking cues from their tone and body language, I'm still working on that.

[cms]

It is probably the nature of the work I am in, but every year that goes by its getting harder and harder to fake it. I can fake interest and carry conversations that most people enjoy (when I think they are mind numbingly dull). Form relationships, and generally carry myself well socially. But the key word is faking it. After awhile you get tired of being someone that your not, and wish the relationships you formed where based on the person you are, not the one you pretend to be.
And when you try and back track people feel disillusioned. I've found people, like people they can categorize and put into a box. When you start to deviate from their preconceived notions of you they tend to get upset.
So I am currently finding it to be a bit bothersome.

At work I can see why its necessary to fake it all the time. But for real valuable interpersonal relationships.. drawing the line can be tough.

[ZEROibis]

I want to be able to meet new people around campus and I know that normal people just make small talk but how!? Really, when I try to think of something to talk to people about nothing comes to mind other than the usual stupid crap like the weather and oh what did you do this weekend. The same thing that anyone planning to get nowhere says. There has got to be something to talk about that I can use to help make people interested in me that does not involve me ranting on about things they can not understand. When I try to think about what people talk about nothing comes to mind other than what I think they should be taking about those logically being matters of importance such as politics, religion, technology, and the meaning of life. I know that normal people do not talk about these things and so I question how I can communicate with them in a way that will allow me to make some friends. I do know that a lot of small talk revolves around social stuff but I do not have much of a social life and so that is off the table.

What sorts of things do you talk about to normal people?

[blather]

What sorts of things do you talk about to normal people?

Like others here I've developed a skill set for using in situations where you have to talk to normal people. The #1 thing that normal people like to talk about is themselves! If you can cultivate just a little bit of interest in what makes people tick (try to think of them as puzzles) it's easy to keep a conversations going and normal people will be very happy with your conversation skills.

Start with some real simple questions, "Who do you know at this party?", "What brings you here?" "Where are you from originally?" and go from there. Branch out to "How long have you known the bride?" "How did you get into that field?" and so on. Think of it like a mind game to keep finding the next question to ask that flows from their previous answer. If you run out go back in your head and pick up threads that might have been dropped. Keep asking questions, even if you don't really care. Avoid starting in on a rant or talking about yourself. This takes some skill to do without being noticed, any time they try to guide the conversation with questions just answer quickly and take control back. Remember to smile a lot and laugh at appropriate times, frequently people are also genuinely funny so that's easy.

Although it's not quite cut and dried, as long as you can keep people talking about themselves without them noticing that you're directing the conversation you'll be seen as a nice person to talk to and a general froopy dude. Don't expect for this to come easily the first couple times you try but it gets easier, it's a skill you can learn just like coding or walking or anything else. The INTJ reading people ability should help you considerably here.

Another part of the skill of conversation that was hard for me to learn was the end game. When it's time for the conversation to draw to a close you have to find a way to slip out of it and not end things abruptly (this is a problem for us.) Find six or seven conversation closer statements, "It's been nice talking to you, I hope we'll run into each other again." "Enjoy your day in our city." "Excuse me, I have to go (insert bodily function here, pee, puke, passout or other.)" Expect that there will be a little bit of chit-chat before you can escape.

[borg87]

In interviews or anything having to do with business, I put up an ENTJ front. I sometimes do that with other people I meet but sometimes I put on this weird INFP role.
Either way, at the end of the interaction I pretty much think "thank goodness that's over with" and go off to recharge alone. Sometimes I absolutely must make a good impression so I go into "acting" mode.
But when I am in social situations that I do not find very appealing and I find myself rather stuck in them, I go through these boring motions and cease to really be there. I may be smiling and nodding but my mind just is not present. "The lights are on but I am not home. But if you'd like to leave a message..."

[Hydro]

I receive frequently very positive results by just going over to someone on a party or another social gathering and simply ask them with a smile on my face "Hi, I'm Hydro, tell me something interesting about you." or "Hi, tell me what's making you special."

It is amazing how people love it that someone is interested in their personality and the topic makes it easy to keep the conversation going. They will automatically present you interesting topics, which you can discuss with them deeper and if it becomes boring you can simply ask, " What else is making you special" and there we go again...

The good thing about it is that they are (and like to be) responsible for the interesting conversation topics and you can learn lots of things about how people tick and best of all: it’s not eating up your soul because you don’t have to fake something.

[jhpark]

I think small talk that's related to business is easiest for me. I also play the, find a tangent they want to talk about game.

The difficulty I run into is when it's a girl I'm interested in and trying to get to know better. I seem to lose all ability to ask questions that start an interesting tangent. or maybe in those settings they're more on guard, so it's harder to do... Not really sure.

[cannotseethe]

"The lights are on but I am not home. But if you'd like to leave a message..."

I've said that out loud, sort of accidentally, once or twice. "I'm not here right now, please leave a message." People think that's funny.

[Nightsun]

I completly agree with qwerty description. I've started at around 14 to understand the social importance of "social relation" for my future. After finding my wife and a work I've stopped it and reverted to my usual habit. Nowaday it make nosense to me to try integrating I've already achived what I wanted so now I can focus on my mind.

[ZEROibis]

Interesting, however what age were you when you meat her?

[Marginal Error]

Interesting, however what age were you when you meat her?

I know what he meant, but that right there was worth the snicker.


EDIT: Boy, this is a rather old thread I seem to have dug up.

[Tacdryver]

I have seen the 'what makes an intj' post but thought this question varied enough to warrant a new topic.

Ok so I've always known I was different to most people and that never really worried me but the trouble is that I need to interact with people to go forward and accomplish new feats.

At some point around age 12 I realized that in order to carry out my experiments and follow my thoughts then I needed to stop my parents worrying about me (socially) and I had to make a few friends to gather variable insight from. So to do this I had to make a conscious decision to make people like me and put them at ease. At first it was hard because I had no experience so I began observing and copying how people respond to one another. I learnt that talking was extremely valuable to others and that listening and paying attention to what they were saying made them like me. Jokes and humor were next and so on and so forth. I guess that the process was aided greatly by seeing people like ticking clocks and understanding the deeper matters below the surface I just never could relate to them.

At the current stage in my life I am able to fit in with just about any group of people and seem to seen as a social butterfly (most people would describe me as extroverted because of it), but the trouble is that everything is a conscious effort and I spend most of my nights recharging and playing out the situations that I see during the day to refine my outside self. Ironically the process of becoming 'normal' has robbed me of the gold (being able to pursue my thoughts) although every once in a while I get the wafting smell of it in the wee hours of the morning so things are so bad.

So, as this is a discovery sort of thing, I'm wondering does anyone else do that sort of thing just to survive if so maybe shed some war tales and if not then what sort of person am I a shoe in the right direction?

As I get older I find myself seriously pondering a hermit existence, living on a sailboat, moving to a foreign country.

I don't think it's hard to be social...the question is 'do you respect the effort, and like the results'....I don't think your going to find an INTJ down at the local Happy Hour unless he's trying to get laid, otherwise....'what's the point'.

Slowly but surely I have eliminated, not added friends, family, colleagues, ect to the point where I am quite possibly dissolving all social contacts in furtherance of a cost/benefit type of relationship that has to have real tangible physical benefits...money, sex, he fixes my car...ect....if that person does not show value and worth to me in some way...not to be used, but as a resource...i am finding it pointless and fruitless to interact with people socially.

Maybe this forum will change my opinion on that.

[BlackFlames]

I receive frequently very positive results by just going over to someone on a party or another social gathering and simply ask them with a smile on my face "Hi, I'm Hydro, tell me something interesting about you." or "Hi, tell me what's making you special."

If you ever came to me with that question I would not know how to answer you and probably would just stare at you. I hate questions like that...

On topic:

Umm I never felt the need to go out and be social for my own benefit. When ever I need something thats when I'll be somewhat social guy. Just gathering enough information for whatever I need to accomplish from people and then go back to me, myself and I

if that person does not show value and worth to me in some way...not to be used, but as a resource...i am finding it pointless and fruitless to interact with people socially.

Exactly...

[Marginal Error]

..that has to have real tangible physical benefits...money, sex, he fixes my car...ect....if that person does not show value and worth to me in some way...not to be used, but as a resource...i am finding it pointless and fruitless to interact with people socially.


Assets.

Before I knew about MBTI, I tried explaining ^ to someone who I now peg to be an ENFJ - did not go well.

[withs2]

Hi guys, I'm a fairly new member here. Here's a little more about myself: I'm 21 this year and am currently working temporarily before I enter university later in the year. I was quite an introverted and shy boy in the past. For instance, I never tried to get to know people outside of my own class while i was in school. Many people have also commented that I'm very "quiet", which bothers me a lot. Nevertheless, i never really thought much about it until the past two years or so.

What got me thinking about this whole introversion and social skills thing were two main reasons: Firstly, as my family is currently having financial difficulties, I have got to get a scholarship to fund my tertiary studies. Secondly, as I was exposed to many new environments, like my new job, I had to meet new people and get along with them.

When I was applying for scholarships, it became apparant to me that employers were looking for people with leadership qualities as well as excellent communication skills, both of which I had neglected. Thus I began to think a lot about this issue which really troubled me. For example, when I had to go for a one-day scholarship assessment centre, I could not get a chance to express my views. The more vocal and outspoken people often drowned me out. When we gathered in a group to reflect on the activites done, everyone had a turn to say something. My mind was in a whirl as the other candidates spoke up while I had no idea what to say. I was so pre-occupied by the thought that I would embarass myself in front of everyone that ironically, I eventually did. I was at a loss of what to say when it came to my turn and there was an uneasy silence. Of course, I did not get through the next stage.

In my current job which I just joined, I found it hard to make friends. Not that I was a unfriendly person, but mainly because I did not speak much. I suppose they saw me as a boring person to be with and so did not interact with me. Although I tried to take the initiative to get to know them, I was often left out when some of my colleagues made plans. The main reason was that they already had their own cliques and whenever I tried to join them in their activities, somehow I felt that I wasn't welcome as I was new to their group.

Fortunately, I have made much progress and am not as introverted as i was a few years ago, although I realised that in groups of more than 3 or 4, I tend to talk much less. Hopefully I will make more improvements in my social skills as I step out of my comfort zone :)

[Tacdryver]

I don't fake.

[Axel]

I have a check list I follow.

1. Learn their name.
2. Tell them my name.
3. Ask if they are having a good day.
- Answer: "Me too" if they are having a good day.
- Reassure them if they are having a bad day.
4. Let them slide into auto-pilot talking about themselves.
- Insert random trivia whenever applicable.
- Avoid being too honest with my own opinions, as those often make people very awkward. There is usually not enough time to fully explain my reasoning to people in a way they can appreciate. Therefore I usually try to pick my moments with care so that I don't needlessly insult someone without being able to account for my rationale. I should note that I'm not after hurting people, I only want them too look past the obvious and pay attention to the things that they overlook. Most of the time they are too emotional to be able to take in what I'm saying though (Usually resembles this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), when they are emotional they don't even listen to what you are saying).
5. Good bye.

The biggest problem over all is to make it appear as if I'm interested. My attention generally fades very quickly, so I usually have to work very hard to avoid drifting into more interesting thoughts. It's not that I dislike people, it just seems like there is a rift between us that is very hard to cross in both directions.

[Casper]

I'm an INTP, but I figure some INTJs would have the same issues. I don't make a good first impression socially. I don't say rude things and I'm nice, but I'm not good with small talk and getting to know someone in the beginning. I find it boring, but I still want to be social. I want to get past the getting to know a new friend phase and after that I'm fine. People seem to like me the longer they know me, but it's hard to get to the point that they know me at all. I like to just skip all the "how are your doing?" kinds of talk and just get to business, but very few people are like that.

Wow this is so applicable. I hate asking anyone "How are you?" because I know it will inevitably lead to the generic and meaningless "Fine, and you?" (Which I hate replying with when asked how I'm doing)

When getting to know someone the most difficult part for me is to get past the small-talk phase to something that we actually both care about or have some interest in. Once I reach that stage it becomes much easier and more natural.

[bladeszcat]

I think the more perceptive party people have a tendency to notice fakery of this sort. I've noticed people mimicking an INTJ friend's over-zealous smile.

Personally, I think it's best is to dive headlong and win whatever points for authenticity lie scattered.

Most people are not really prepared for the ice being broken by a sledge-hammer.

Their innate disposition to restore societal equilibrium usually forces them to put on bewildered smiles and say something appropriate.

Sledgehammers also help to separate the ones with an undercurrent of individuality to them from the chaff. The chaff are also rendered more relaxed now that the conversational spectrum has been widened.

[SarcasticVlad]

I can fake emotions and interests in a conversation. For example if I have to listen to someones relationship problems (I only do that if it's someone I really know) and I'm supposed to relate to their problems. I can fake the compassion and interest but I'm actually thinking about something completely unrelated. Last time I was thinking about disassembling a TV when I get back home just so I could clean the screen from the inside! And the more I fake it the more socially exhausted I get.

[zibber]

I don't fake.

That's the only way.

Be spontaneous. What are you trying to prove? You are no one other than your self.

[averysmallwish]

I know how to fake, but it's so boring and draining. (that's what she said ha. ha.)