Fate vs Destiny

[muguly]

Is there a difference between fate and destiny? Often times you hear of fate, it is a negative event about to happen. Destiny often a positive one. Does this hold true? Why?

[Antares]

Wow. I never gave this much thought. Here are definitions, nonetheless, although it should be mentioned that semantics are not absolute ;)

Fate:

1: the will or principle or determining cause by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do
2 a: an inevitable and often adverse outcome, condition, or end b: disaster; especially : death
3 a: final outcome b: the expected result of normal development <prospective fate of embryonic cells> c: the circumstances that befall someone or something <did not know the fate of her former classmates>

Destiny

1 : something to which a person or thing is destined : fortune <wants to control his own destiny>
2 : a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency

The definition for fate seems to imply that it is inevitable, for in the imaginations of many people (I can't say 'reality', because I'm not sure about the predestination paradox. However, in a sense, 'fate' exists. Often, we are heard saying things like: "The dog never knew the fate of her pup"), those who try to evade fate in fiction are generally unsuccessful (Oedipus, Cronus, Anakin Skywalker etc) and many a times single-handedly caused the whole dilemma. I think that fate is a term too ambiguous to to define.

Destiny does evoke a somewhat more pleasant thought ('It is my destiny to be with this person', or 'It is her destiny to change the world'). In some interpretations, destiny, like fate, is unavoidable and often includes the subject trying to change the destiny, but setting the cycle in process unwittingly. In other interpretations, destiny can be changed ("My choices determine my destiny."). In some fictional stories, destiny is not set in stone, but in others, it is. I have no way of knowing if there is such thing as 'destiny'. Again, the term is very vague and the specific characteristics are not generally agreed upon.

I generally don't like 'destiny'. To me, it implies indulgence and laziness (false sense of security, false comfort. I can go on) because I'm 'destined' to be a millionaire. It just sounds too close to wishful thinking (It's 'destined' to happen this way). This quote, or the variations of it to apply to anything, irks me: "If it's meant to be, love will find a way." It makes everything appear far easier than it is.

[coffeeloverfreak]

I don't believe in either, so to me, the differences are far too nuanced to matter - except maybe in writing or poetry.

[ssfanatic]

I think they are both the same, except fate has a slightly negative denotation. I believe in both, there is just too much irony in the world for me to believe otherwise. Its just one of those topics you have to prove to yourself.

[BlackHawk]

I think that fate refers to a no-matter-what-you-think attitude about events in everyday life, whereas destiny is just an end result that is unavoidable.

So, my destiny might be to become President
Fate, then, would be how many votes I get, which states I carry, etc.

By these definitions (my own, not based on any "real" definitions) I think destiny might have something to it, but fate is complete nonsense.

[muguly]

It's always been my belief that if you pay attention to everything that goes on around you, eventually you will realize that everything has or had a reason for happening, whether you would like to admit it or not is another thing.

[MNRon]

It's always been my belief that if you pay attention to everything that goes on around you, eventually you will realize that everything has or had a reason for happening, whether you would like to admit it or not is another thing.


It has always been my belief that the notion that "everything happens for a reason" is a bunch of baloney, no offense, just an INTJ talking, educated in biblical studies and history. I think the need to know "why" an event occurs is hard wired into us, and your view is one of the ways of answering that question.

Most of the time the reason is self-evident, not metaphysical: drunk drivers tend to get in accidents/trouble. This is not to say we cannot learn from events, only to say that events do not occur for the express purpose or "reason" that we may wish to ascribe to them We are, in part, the sum of the past experiences in our lives. But I am Arminian, not Calvinist, I do not see those events/experiences as destined, or predestined, to occur for a reason.

I was recently first on the scene at a horrific accident because a kid ran a stop sign and T-boned a gramma and her two grandkids. Can we learn from this? Yes. Is there a "reason" this event occurred? Apart from a teenager admittedly being a careless driver, I doubt it. Did some entity decide aforetime that this event would occur? Not in my world view.

[muguly]

It has always been my belief that the notion that "everything happens for a reason" is a bunch of baloney, no offense, just an INTJ talking, educated in biblical studies and history. I think the need to know "why" an event occurs is hard wired into us, and your view is one of the ways of answering that question.

Most of the time the reason is self-evident, not metaphysical: drunk drivers tend to get in accidents/trouble. This is not to say we cannot learn from events, only to say that events do not occur for the express purpose or "reason" that we may wish to ascribe to them We are, in part, the sum of the past experiences in our lives. But I am Arminian, not Calvinist, I do not see those events/experiences as destined, or predestined, to occur for a reason.

I was recently first on the scene at a horrific accident because a kid ran a stop sign and T-boned a gramma and her two grandkids. Can we learn from this? Yes. Is there a "reason" this event occurred? Apart from a teenager admittedly being a careless driver, I doubt it. Did some entity decide aforetime that this event would occur? Not in my world view.

Ok, that's what makes the world a beautiful place: the ability to have differing opinions. But, I guess I should have said that every event has an undelying lesson too, because that is also the reason I believe what I mentioned on the previous post. But that's just me and what I choose to believe.

[narutofanninja]

It means pretty much the same thing. For someone to be fated is the same as for someone to be destined.

[ElstonGunn]

I think that fate refers to a no-matter-what-you-think attitude about events in everyday life, whereas destiny is just an end result that is unavoidable.

So, my destiny might be to become President
Fate, then, would be how many votes I get, which states I carry, etc.

By these definitions (my own, not based on any "real" definitions) I think destiny might have something to it, but fate is complete nonsense.

That's an interesting take on it. So, is destiny the "What," and fate the "How"? For example, I might be destined to end up in Chicago next Tuesday, and my fate would be to take an airplane there?



But I am Arminian, not Calvinist, I do not see those events/experiences as destined, or predestined, to occur for a reason.

Oh, well there's your problem. Theologically-speaking, I mean. ;) I used to debate this with the organist at my old church. He was a med school student (i.e., smart), but I guess he was just predestined to be wrong. :laugh:

[Antares]

It's always been my belief that if you pay attention to everything that goes on around you, eventually you will realize that everything has or had a reason for happening, whether you would like to admit it or not is another thing.

Well, if you mean cause, sure. Everything has a cause. But reasons? As in a hidden meaning? Nah. I'd rather believe in the Chaos theory :D Unpredictability is what's beautiful about this world. The 'everything happens for a reason' mentality sounds like there is someone, a deity perhaps, planning everything. People often wonder: "Why are we here?" But my question would sound like this: "How are we here? The why matters not."

[muguly]

Well, if you mean cause, sure. Everything has a cause. But reasons? As in a hidden meaning? Nah. I'd rather believe in the Chaos theory :D Unpredictability is what's beautiful about this world. The 'everything happens for a reason' mentality sounds like there is someone, a deity perhaps, planning everything. People often wonder: "Why are we here?" But my question would sound like this: "How are we here? The why matters not."

Even in chaos there is a form of order. All I mean is that if we think hard enough, every event in our lives correlates to another event in the past or the future. Like cause and effect. And, if we choose to accept it, these events teach a lesson we will need. That's it. Life is a test, experiences are the study guide.

[Antares]

Even in chaos there is a form of order. All I mean is that if we think hard enough, every event in our lives correlates to another event in the past or the future. Like cause and effect. And, if we choose to accept it, these events teach a lesson we will need. That's it. Life is a test, experiences are the study guide.

I tend to view recurring events or correlating events as coincedences, because they don't happen a lot in my life. And usually, I'm better prepared because I know what to do this time. As much as I like the literary 'foreshadowings' and 'poetic justice', I don't believe those in real life. Sure, they might happen sometimes, but it wasn't predestined or anything, like usually in books.

[INTJoe]

There is some validity to desitny/fate on the macro level, but not so much on the micro level.

In other words, people who say "Well, everything happens for a reason", after they had a huge fuckup in their life are really dumb/incompetent/careless/etc. people.

I've got an INTJ buddy and he broke up with his gf, after trying to do everything he could to salvage their relationship, and his gf totally f***ed things up, then once he dropped the INTJ hammer of no return, she kept calling and hounding him to get back together. The damage was done. Once she realized there was not going to be a return to normalcy, she stated "Well, I'm a firm believe in 'everything happens for a reason'".

That told him everything he needed to know about her will power, competency, intelligence, etc.*

In general though, people are destined for certain things in life. But they can alter their path ever-so-slightly along the way by making certain decisions. It's like the class system in American (or any country). It's very difficult to move up or down in a class in 1 generation. But it can be done, one small step at a time.

*Funny side-story. So after they broke up, my INTJ buddy was camping with me and a couple others, and this dumb ho kept texting him and I kept yelling at him to put the goddamn phone away...haha...anyway, she started getting mad at him because she claims that I deleted her from my MySpace page immediately after they broke up. She told him, "if you surround yourself with people like that, then I don't want to know you anyway" or something. lol. I told him she was crazy and that she was never a friend on MySpace. I told her to verify with MySpace Tom, and that I'd pay her $1,000 if she was right. She insisted this was all true, and used it to prove to my friend that he hangs around with rude/bad people. What a crazy girl. We actually got along great with her, too. The 4 of us went on a frikkin' cruise together just months earlier and had a great time together!!! Crazy women......:scared:

[Antares]

INTJoe: This reminds of the movie Serendipity. SO crap. :yuck: "If we're meant to be together, then this five dollar bill will come back to you." Cliched, cheesy and unoriginal. I couldn't even sit through the whole thing. The girl is exactly the kind of people I would never get into a relationship with.