what are good antidotes to being INTJ?

[MixISTJandINTJ]

last night while thinking (i'm sure many of you know what i mean :idea:), i came to the idea (:idea:) to become an intj who ultimately reverses destiny (an intj life) and becomes a full ESFP. :thumbsup: <-- because my INTJ life was causing alone and depression, NOT GOOD

what steps could i take to complete this transformation? so far these ideas were prominent under two categories:

temporary:
1. get CBT therapy and maybe the right food and medical prescription/supplement

permanent:
1. recognize INTJ qualities and behaviors (such as using the internet or reading) and replace them with more ESFP life
2. COMEDY :cheesy:

[Jgib5328]

It's impossible. I don't know what your knowledge is of personality theory, psychology, or neurology is, but it seems limited. There are certain personality traits that you are born with. You are born introverted, and introverted person has a different brain structure than an extrovert, so in order to get the E component of an ESFP, you'd have to get brain surgery that doesn't exist. Some other aspects of your personality may be flexible, I think the F/T component is and maybe the P/J, but it's not easy to consciously change, something has to happen to you.

With that being said, you can act like an ESFP. Go to parties, talk all of the time, think with your emotions, and not discount for the future or be organized, but this will all be fake. You will only act as someone who is different, you will never be different. Who you are now is who you will always be. You won't be exactly the same, but your base personality always will be. As you get older, you will develop more traits, but this is just a higher stage of development for your base personality. IE INTJs in their mid-late 20s start developing their Fi component, which slightly changes their personality. Their base personality is still the same, but they have just developed a new component.

Deal with it. Right now you are an INTJ and you will always be an INTJ. Nothing you can do will ever change it, so accept it. You are the opposite of an ESFP and will always be that way, nothing will change. No matter how much you act like an ESFP, it will still always be an act and nothing more. If you want to be more social and outgoing then go hang out with more people and talk more. Just because you aren't an ESFP doesn't mean that you can't be outgoing too. I doesn't equate shyness or reservedness, it just means that you draw energy from within. Some Is are very outgoing, e.g I can be very outgoing sometimes if I'm in the right mood.

You shouldn't be ashamed of being an INTJ, in my subjective opinion it is the best type. Key word is subjective, but the INTJ is an amazing type and the more you develop yourself, the more you'll see that.

[pavman]

... but the INTJ is an amazing type and the more you develop yourself, the more you'll see that.

Some might even say its the best type :thumbsup::cool::thumbsup::cool:

I do disagree to an extent. We choose who we are. We may not be able to naturally be an E, but I bet we can emulate it. And if you emulate it long enough until it becomes natural, then you will have modified your personality and the I vs E part of yourself.

I for one would never be able to trust people enough to become an E, but who knows...maybe some day.

[Santana28]

become a pastor in an evangelical christian church? ;)

[Jgib5328]

Some might even say its the best type :thumbsup::cool::thumbsup::cool:

I do disagree to an extent. We choose who we are. We may not be able to naturally be an E, but I bet we can emulate it. And if you emulate it long enough until it becomes natural, then you will have modified your personality and the I vs E part of yourself.

I for one would never be able to trust people enough to become an E, but who knows...maybe some day.

You can't ever be an E, but you can become gregarious, social, outgoing etc. Extrovert at it's base terms just means that you draw energy from other people. It's impossible for an introvert to do that.

[rwyatt365]

...become a used car salesman?

[vkut79]

Thanks for the excellent post, Jgib5328. It seems to me that a big problem for a lot of INTJs, especially younger ones, is that they don't learn to accept their real personality and are driven by social pressures to adopt a personality that is more the social "average", which INTJ clearly is not. This often results in lowered self-esteem and unhappiness. Like you say, changing personality is simply not realistic. They need to realize that social pressure shouldn't dictate how they live their lives.

[pavman]

You can't ever be an E, but you can become gregarious, social, outgoing etc. Extrovert at it's base terms just means that you draw energy from other people. It's impossible for an introvert to do that.

Actually, I do draw energy from other people, especially when I lead.... I get kind of zanny when I'm around people I know, and I think it makes me look like an ass, but I don't mind.

Perhaps I'm borderline I/E...

[iamnotspock]

Take Prozac. Or another SSRI. Even St. John's Wort works.

I've done it and I got to see "the other side". It was interesting. But I am back to where I belong.

[Jgib5328]

Actually, I do draw energy from other people, especially when I lead.... I get kind of zanny when I'm around people I know, and I think it makes me look like an ass, but I don't mind.

Perhaps I'm borderline I/E...

I mean every introvert draws energy from people in certain circumstances, unless they are 100% I, which isn't possible in the real world. Some people score that on tests, but that doesn't mean anything. I'm like 65/35 I so I mean I have some extroverted traits too.

[Alpha Prime]

You need to learn more social skills, not transform yourself.

[vkut79]

Its actually really simple, do what you FEEL like doing. Its that simple. Forget about what other people tell you to do (unless you're a kid). If you consider yourself an INTJ and you feel lonely and depressed, then go and be social! Just because you consider yourself an INTJ doesn't mean you have to live a solitary life. That's a bad idea. Every INTJ needs some social interaction to be at their happiest level. Don't think about personality theory as a confining sort of system of what you should or should not do, it merely helps explain your natural tendencies. What it all comes down to is doing what you feel like doing, following your heart, etc. (not in the emotional sense, in the sense that you feel content, satisfied with doing something).

[ElstonGunn]

2. COMEDY :cheesy:

And on that note... Step 3: Act like an annoying jerk. ;)

I'm kidding, of course. ...mostly.

One thing to remember is that a lot of psychology, especially MBTI, is essentially theory, rather than law. If you want to change who you are, go for it. It'll probably be difficult, but I can't tell you what you are able to do.

If nothing else, think of it as a bunch skills that can be learned, with enough time and practice-- particularly the sociability that tends to go along with being an E.

And if it turns out that living like an ESFP sucks, come back here, and I'll try to keep the "I told you so"s to a minimum. :p

[vkut79]

The basic personality traits - like extrovertedness - can't be learned.

[Zilal]

Oh, my goodness. Don't worry about being ESFP. Heck, don't worry about MBTI, or introversion, at all. Just worry about the loneliness. CBT definitely a good idea. What you want isn't extremes, but a slow transition to being a healthier version of yourself.

[coffeeloverfreak]

You don't have to become an ESFP. But I think what you're talking about is developing your less developed functions to become a more well-rounded and balanced human being.

If you're a strong introvert, you can work on the root causes and try to become more comfortable around people. You may never prefer extroversion, but you might deal with it better over time.

If you're a strong intuitive, you can work on your Se by trying to pay more attention to detail and your surroundings, and making an effort to live more in the here and now. It doesn't mean you'll ever prefer this, but you can definitely get better at it.

If your preference for thinking is strong, you can work to develop your tertiary Fi, which usually happens with maturity for most INTJs anyway. Just trying to pay more attention to the feelings of those around you, and trying to get more in touch with your own feelings about things, can make you healthier over time. It doesn't mean you'll ever decide completely with your heart instead of your head, but you can learn to take feelings into account.

And if you're a strong J, you can try to be more impulsive, consider more possibilities, and don't rush to decisions so quickly. You may always feel more comfortable when you have things settled and decided, but you can work on trying to be more open to possibilities.

None of this will turn you into an ESFP. But it can turn you into a healthier, more well-rounded INTJ. As I've pointed out on other threads, your MBTI type measures your preference but not necessarily your aptitude in these areas. So while your preference may not change, you can increase your aptitude in your less preferred functions.

[OneHertz]

Alcohol is a good antidote

[MixISTJandINTJ]

Thanks for the replies guys! I'm mostly just NOT FEELING GOOD. lonely. sad. too day-dreamy. whatever you wanna call it, it's not good. the intj, whatever talk is just a distraction!

CBT and professionals will definitely help. also actually saying my words while typing here makes it feel a lot more social rather than reading them in my head and typing back without moving my lips at all!

[Joes Pizza]

Hello, Brand new here but this is a converstion i'd like to enter in to.

To solve some of the loneliness,well, find something you like.
If you are not sure what that is, then try a bunch of things.

Martial Arts did it for me.
Heck, even just saying that is bringing a smile to my face.
I think Martial Arts is a science of economy of motion and teaching has brought out a completely different person in me.
The teaching experience was amazing because it taught me more than the actual classes ever did by forcing me to go back to my instructor and ask enough questions to heighten my understanding of what a certain angle or motion is used to achieve.

Ug rambling about something i enjoy.

Most senses of loneliness or "bad" feelings are usually brought about by my not listening to my gut about things.
Might help if you listen to your instincts a bit more and trust them, even if they are telling you to try things that those around you have told you will not work.
It's often the case that whatever,well, my instincts tell me to do are right, even if it doesn't give me the result i desired.

That's where the persistence comes in and my intsincts and mind tell me to try another method.
First isn't always a winner,but the process opens up new understandings that i had yet to know.
Anyway, this is simply what works for me.
Hopefully it'll help.

[elsdfr]

Check your diet is good (fish and red beans etc.) and get some exercise. Get out of the house if you can... primary causes of basic depression.

As others said you can't change who you really are. You would just be learning other skills which you can use when you need to, kinda like being multiskilled for a job I guess ;)

[Jgib5328]

Thanks for the replies guys! I'm mostly just NOT FEELING GOOD. lonely. sad. too day-dreamy. whatever you wanna call it, it's not good. the intj, whatever talk is just a distraction!

CBT and professionals will definitely help. also actually saying my words while typing here makes it feel a lot more social rather than reading them in my head and typing back without moving my lips at all!

Dude you're just depressed. I was depressed once too. The only way to get out of it, is to stop feeling badly about yourself and get over it. If there is something that you really want that you like, than take it. Nobody is going to give it to you. Not many people are going to come up to you and ask to be friends. If you want friends then find them. Wishing you were different isn't going to help anything. It's just going to make you feel even more pathetic. So instead of feeling sorry for yourself, fix yourself. Most happy people are people who chase after what they want and get it. You need to do the same.

[Zilal]

Yes, I think coming here and talking about it is probably a good thing. Often when we're feeling really crappy it feels like we need to do something desperate to overturn it, but we usually just need to keep going in the direction we're going in.

Remember that even loneliness itself isn't bad, I mean, it's a natural feeling. And you can tolerate it. But feeling so disconnected from other people for a long time has a huge impact on quality of life, so keep taking those steps to make it better.

[Agile]

I do disagree to an extent. We choose who we are. We may not be able to naturally be an E, but I bet we can emulate it. And if you emulate it long enough until it becomes natural, then you will have modified your personality and the I vs E part of yourself.

I for one would never be able to trust people enough to become an E, but who knows...maybe some day.

Completely agree. Who we end up as is both chance and choice.

You can't ever be an E, but you can become gregarious, social, outgoing etc. Extrovert at it's base terms just means that you draw energy from other people. It's impossible for an introvert to do that.

I think we draw energy (all of us) from our automatic responses. Pretty much once you learn something and have it down it can run from the background, freeing up your brain to handle other things. How else can people drive and talk on the phone, change the radio station, etc, and still pay attention to what's going on, on the road.

Note: I am not referring to people who change the radio station and swerve the car, or who speed through school zones/make unsafe driving moves while talking on the phone. Clearly these take their minds off the road to do other things. There are, however, some of us gifted souls :thumbsup: who are capable of driving the car safely while doing something else at the same time.

The harder we have to work to keep up with what's going on in our environment, the more energy/attention we use.

If you do not have it down, your mind runs actively and thus causes you to not be in the moment, think too much, experience sensory overload, etc. Of course you would feel drained after such an experience, and need to recharge. But by increasing your competency at the activity, it becomes easier for you, you therefore use less energy and get better results, and then, something happens, where you are no longer 'working at what you are doing' and instead you are effortlessly doing it. At this level it becomes a part of your creative expression. This is where we draw energy from what we are doing, IMO.

It also explains how an extrovert, a very upbeat partying people person, could then concentrate and be a prolific writer or an expert programmer, and vice versa, (and not feel drained by the activity, and view it as 'work').

Choosing one over the other becomes a matter of preference, versus a matter of necessity. This, I think, is the key factor that the rigid introvert/extrovert category overlooks.

This does not apply to everyone. Some people prefer to apply the preference for their particular function, without acknowledging the skill level and attention part of the equation. I think if you believe you are hard coded to see chatting with others as work, then that's how you see it, no one can change it but you yourself. And with that perspective...well, how could you possibly draw energy from something, regardless of hwo easy it is. If you flat out do not like it, you will just get bored once it becomes easy.

[Jgib5328]

Completely agree. Who we end up as is both chance and choice.



I think we draw energy (all of us) from our automatic responses. Pretty much once you learn something and have it down it can run from the background, freeing up your brain to handle other things. How else can people drive and talk on the phone, change the radio station, etc, and still pay attention to what's going on, on the road.

Note: I am not referring to people who change the radio station and swerve the car, or who speed through school zones/make unsafe driving moves while talking on the phone. Clearly these take their minds off the road to do other things. There are, however, some of us gifted souls :thumbsup: who are capable of driving the car safely while doing something else at the same time.

The harder we have to work to keep up with what's going on in our environment, the more energy/attention we use.

If you do not have it down, your mind runs actively and thus causes you to not be in the moment, think too much, experience sensory overload, etc. Of course you would feel drained after such an experience, and need to recharge. But by increasing your competency at the activity, it becomes easier for you, you therefore use less energy and get better results, and then, something happens, where you are no longer 'working at what you are doing' and instead you are effortlessly doing it. At this level it becomes a part of your creative expression. This is where we draw energy from what we are doing, IMO.

It also explains how an extrovert, a very upbeat partying people person, could then concentrate and be a prolific writer or an expert programmer, and vice versa, (and not feel drained by the activity, and view it as 'work').

Choosing one over the other becomes a matter of preference, versus a matter of necessity. This, I think, is the key factor that the rigid introvert/extrovert category overlooks.

This does not apply to everyone. Some people prefer to apply the preference for their particular function, without acknowledging the skill level and attention part of the equation. I think if you believe you are hard coded to see chatting with others as work, then that's how you see it, no one can change it but you yourself. And with that perspective...well, how could you possibly draw energy from something, regardless of hwo easy it is. If you flat out do not like it, you will just get bored once it becomes easy.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. You can't just wish that your brain was structured differently. An E and an I have different brain structures. You cannot overcome this. It isn't just a simple matter of some people being shy, while others are more social. It's about how your brain operates. Like I've already said, you can become social and more outgoing through repetition, but you can't restructure your brain. Your analogy about the car isn't really relevant and besides, talking on the phone or to a person in the car and changing your radio station whilst driving is one of the leading causes of non-alcohol induced car accidents. If you think your opinion is right while science is wrong, go ahead. You'll be wasting your time trying to be something that is impossible to be. Live with being an introvert, it isn't too bad.

[MNRon]

When did being an INTJ become a disease to be cured? One may need to deal with related issues (depression, introversion, fear of social settings) but that is a far cry from seeking an "antidote," I'd say.

When I was a college prof there were always well meaning student life people trying to coax quiet, introspective types "out of their shells," as though quietness was a malady. Let us just say, the psych prof and I "had words" with the student life people!

You may have mental/physical/emotional/shortcomings, but INTJness is not one of them!

[thod]

It seems a valid topic to research to me. I would certainly be interested in techniques to change my type.

Don't make the mistake of thinking INTJ is the ideal to which all should aspire, it has its downsides too. Ideally you would be able to change your type according to circumstance. So you need to network at some party, you become and extrovert before returning to your INTJness. You need to get a lot done that doesn't need to much analysis, you become a sensor.

I don't know how you could do it but I would like to be some touchy-feel extrovert for a day if only to see things from the other side. Perhaps not posting in internet fora is part of the recipe so we never hear from those that succeed.

[Antares]

When did being an INTJ become a disease to be cured? One may need to deal with related issues (depression, introversion, fear of social settings) but that is a far cry from seeking an "antidote," I'd say.

My mother's been trying to 'cure' me for a long time.

[MadmanMSU]

I just have to say, Jgib is off his rocker.

First off, I'll say this...having been through a physiology bachelors and now enrolling in a public health masters program, I will totally agree with you that personality can have a basis in biology. I mean...duh.

But to say that a person can't change is wrong. Especially during adolescent development years. *Especially*.

And, to be perfectly honest, I don't much feel like arguing about it, other than to say that its merely a difference in semantics. You say that you can only become a more Extrovertly expressed introvert, but who's to say they aren't an introverted extrovert?

As to the original poster, I would say that you can change as much as you choose to. I was the same way through high-school, but I got tired of it and decided to change. It's worked really well for me, I enjoy my life.

[simoncpu]

An antidote to INTJ loneliness is sex. INTJs don't get laid as often as INTPs do.... ;D

[ps646566]

You need to learn more social skills, not transform yourself.

This is the crux of it.

Humour people. Don't always feel the need to be seen to be right, especially when it doesn't really matter. Don't express unpopular or controversial opinions just for the sake of it. Don't offer frank comments which might offend just because they come into your mind. Make an effort to make eye contact and smile at people. Indulge in small talk sometimes, however irksome. Many, if not most, people are very superficial in their judgment of others, and you'll be amazed how much difference these superficial tricks and traits can make.

[Jgib5328]

I just have to say, Jgib is off his rocker.

First off, I'll say this...having been through a physiology bachelors and now enrolling in a public health masters program, I will totally agree with you that personality can have a basis in biology. I mean...duh.

But to say that a person can't change is wrong. Especially during adolescent development years. *Especially*.

And, to be perfectly honest, I don't much feel like arguing about it, other than to say that its merely a difference in semantics. You say that you can only become a more Extrovertly expressed introvert, but who's to say they aren't an introverted extrovert?

As to the original poster, I would say that you can change as much as you choose to. I was the same way through high-school, but I got tired of it and decided to change. It's worked really well for me, I enjoy my life.

Perhaps you are the misinformed one. How many times do I have to say this, extroversion does not = being social, gregarious, or outgoing. Extroversion= being energized by other people. Never have I stated that the poster can't become social, gregarious or outgoing, I just said that it is impossible to become an extrovert. I even encouraged him/her to try to be more outgoing and social. An 'introverted extrovert' is an oxymoron. You can be a 'shy extrovert' or a 'socially inept extrovert' but you can't be an 'introverted extrovert'. That means that you are a person who gains energy from other people, but recharges when they are alone, even the definition doesn't make sense. I think you are confused as to what extroversion and introversion means. It has nothing to do with being reserved or quiet, it means where you get your energy form. You are born like this, your brain is made a certain way such that you gain energy in particular ways IE extroverts from other people.

[umop_3pisdn]

This is the crux of it.

Humour people. Don't always feel the need to be seen to be right, especially when it doesn't really matter. Don't express unpopular or controversial opinions just for the sake of it. Don't offer frank comments which might offend just because they come into your mind. Make an effort to make eye contact and smile at people. Indulge in small talk sometimes, however irksome. Many, if not most, people are very superficial in their judgment of others, and you'll be amazed how much difference these superficial tricks and traits can make.

Word. In my case, it's largely about just pushing myself outside my comfort zone. Something that worked pretty well for me, was getting a job in the customer service industry. You already have a valid reason right there to be interacting with people, even if you don't give a shit about them as individuals. You're already there to make some money... it's not like you're there for fun/personal reasons, so one may as well hone some skills while they're at it, to make their wasted time worth more than just whatever one's wage is.

At least, that works decently for me. I find it hard to work up the motivation/will to consistently put myself beyond my comfort zone, socially. I can be kind of ambivalent about the whole social thing... so the above worked decently for me, despite my lack of will to put myself beyond my comfort zone.

I'm still not so fab, socially. I mean, I'm pleasant and likable and shit, but other people still kind of scare the crap out of me for some reason (even if I like them,) which results in me wanting to separate myself from other people and be alone. I'm not entirely sure why. I think it's mostly an anxiety thing... so, yeah. It's not easy, and I still have a long way to go before I reach the place I'd like to be at, but it's definitely do-able. Being an INTJ does not preclude these skills, it just adds some additional obstacles to their acquisition.

To rewrite your social habits, you have to consistently go outside your comfort zone (a bit at a time, being too ambitious is counter productive.) And it takes a few months before it starts becoming a habit. Beyond that, it takes years before it's ingrained into your personality... so if it's really important to you, start now! One of the best ways to practice is to go and actually initiate conversations with strangers, yourself, instead of just responding to them all the time. That's generally not the easiest thing to do, though, but if you want it badly enough it's probably worth it.

[Tokey41]

Personality usually becomes more consistent around 20 or so, if your going to try and change the adolescent years would be your best shot. To say you CAN'T change afterwards however is just wrong. I think the reason science has found that personality stabilizes right after adolesence is because during that period we are looking for an identity and ultimately we find values and beliefs that make sense to us. Those can change, but other aspects such as being introverted/extroverted would take a lot of energy and effort. Almost like unlearning how to be what your life experience has taught you to be.

I can see why you would want to change, but personally I think the advantages of being an INTJ far outweigh the disadvantages.

[meanlittlechimp]

I find the biggest problems with my INTJ friends (and one in particular has very good social skills) is that often can't laugh at themselves and take things a bit too seriously.

They get into this place where if everything isn't exactly how they planned or want, it drives them crazy. The more unhealthy kind tend to let little things really get under their skin and drive themselves into misery (for what appears to me, completely overblown). They often say I don't take things seriously enough.

Which may be true, but I'm generally happier - even if my lights are turned off because I forgot to pay the electricity bill because I blew it all on booze. Then I'll borrow money from my INTJ friend (because they're loyal to their friends and always have money squirreled away somewhere).

The older ones I know tend to mellow with age and be at more peace with themselves, but that's probably true of all types.

[umop_3pisdn]

I find the biggest problems with my INTJ friends (and one in particular has very good social skills) is that often can't laugh at themselves and take things a bit too seriously.

They get into this place where if everything isn't exactly how they planned or want, it drives them crazy. The more unhealthy kind tend to let little things really get under their skin and drive themselves into misery (for what appears to me, completely overblown).


I agree with this. At least this is quite true in my case.

[SShack]

I think I understand where JGib is coming from. I was surprised to take these tests and discover I was an "extrovert." I never saw myself that way because I'm not particularly "social" as we define it in the U.S. I don't go to a lot of parties. I don't date around (despite what some of the descriptions of ENTPs say). I'm terrible at small talk. I like unconventional things and am practically congenitally unable to conform to anything, ever.

But ... I am a natural leader and take-control kind of guy (I had to come to terms that I am, indeed, an 'alpha male' and all the baggage that entails), and I do need people around, smart people to bounce my ideas around and challenge me, and I start to grow lonely if I can't find folks like that. I am an extrovert, but an intellectual one, which is much different from an emotional one. We tend to associate extroversion with emotional behavior too much, I think.

Adding to clarify, what I think JGib is getting at is, you can't make yourself need people or not need people to be around. You can spend more time around people and be more social, but that doesn't make you more extroverted.

[Jgib5328]

I think I understand where JGib is coming from. I was surprised to take these tests and discover I was an "extrovert." I never saw myself that way because I'm not particularly "social" as we define it in the U.S. I don't go to a lot of parties. I don't date around (despite what some of the descriptions of ENTPs say). I'm terrible at small talk. I like unconventional things and am practically congenitally unable to conform to anything, ever.

But ... I am a natural leader and take-control kind of guy (I had to come to terms that I am, indeed, an 'alpha male' and all the baggage that entails), and I do need people around, smart people to bounce my ideas around and challenge me, and I start to grow lonely if I can't find folks like that. I am an extrovert, but an intellectual one, which is much different from an emotional one. We tend to associate extroversion with emotional behavior too much, I think.

Adding to clarify, what I think JGib is getting at is, you can't make yourself need people or not need people to be around. You can spend more time around people and be more social, but that doesn't make you more extroverted.

Finally, I'm understood by someone.

[umop_3pisdn]

Finally, I'm understood by someone.

I understood what you were saying. I don't get how it was contentious at all... I thought it was commonly understood that introvert =/= shy and extrovert =/= gregarious.

[Jgib5328]

I understood what you were saying. I don't get how it was contentious at all... I thought it was commonly understood that introvert =/= shy and extrovert =/= gregarious.

No, people think the exact opposite. They think introvert= shy extrovert=outgoing. That's why I've been saying that they were wrong and that you can't change from being introverted to extroverted, but you can go from being shy to outgoing, with practice.

p.s. nice avatar, that's from Berserk right?

[ps646566]

To rewrite your social habits, you have to consistently go outside your comfort zone (a bit at a time, being too ambitious is counter productive.) And it takes a few months before it starts becoming a habit. Beyond that, it takes years before it's ingrained into your personality... so if it's really important to you, start now! One of the best ways to practice is to go and actually initiate conversations with strangers, yourself, instead of just responding to them all the time. That's generally not the easiest thing to do, though, but if you want it badly enough it's probably worth it.

Good stuff. 'Comfort zone' certainly is the operative phrase here. Also it's a matter of age and experience. In youth, the comfort zone tends to be taking the easy way and toughing it out. It's easy to make excuses for not making the effort. As life progresses, however, it becomes more obvious that the least uncomfortable option is indeed to make the effort, because there are too many downsides from not doing so.

Also, it must be remembered that not everyone else is a social or interpersonal skills master, even if they think that they are. One realises over time that a lot of problems with social interraction are in fact due to other people's shortcomings, as much if not more than due to one's own shortcomings.

But do not tell them this to their faces, unless you really, really have to !!!! Otherwise you are back to square one.

[sm80403]

The basic personality traits - like extrovertedness - can't be learned.
Yeah, but you can sure learn to fake it. . .

[eMachine]

I don't think that you can reverse who you are, but you can change your habits, monitor your thought processes and counter those thoughts that are not progressive according to the changes you're trying to make.

For a few months I shifted my habits that way, it was certainly a challenge. This was me trying to overcome my social anxiety at the time, I didn't even know about INTJ back then.

Some exercises that I tried were to go out and socialize with people, but when I did I carried a 'worry stone' in my pants pocket and I would constantly rub it when I was talking to people because it gave me an outlet for my anxious energy so that I wouldn't be constantly darting my eyes around or seeming to fidget etc., so I could more easily give them my direct attention. People seem to think I'm not listening to them when I do those kinds of things, so the social interaction gets sort of stressed, not as open, if you know what I mean.

I also would greet everyone (in my own mind) with the word 'Namaste'... yes, it is 'spiritual' in origin and most people use it that way, but the way I saw it was acknowledging that we are equals, I am as good as you, we are both humans and can respect eachother regardless of our more superficial differences. This helped me to feel more confident in myself and more open to people, more understanding of them, more accepting of them and of myself.

I also tried to control my judgments of people... if I met someone and I thought "okay, this person is ignorant or shallow", I would try to counter that thought with "I don't know this person, people often wear masks in social situations. I don't know what strengths this person may have, there are good things about most people." And I also acknowledged that even if I couldn't have a deep, philosophical conversation with someone, for instance, I could still get something out of my interactions with them, like simply observing how they communicate. And if I can manage to have a positive interaction with them, it adds to the confidence/comfort in communication that I'm trying to build. I also think that when I was not judging them, they seemed less likely to be judging me harshly... or perhaps it was that people were rarely judging me harshly in the first place and I was just judging our interactions down to the last detail that I was imagining them judging me, when really it was me judging myself.

I don't know if this experience of mine will make sense to anyone else, it's more about my social anxiety, which it seems many INTJs don't suffer from, but I hope it might help the original poster a bit.

[simoncpu]

I don't think that you can reverse who you are, but you can change your habits, monitor your thought processes and counter those thoughts that are not progressive according to the changes you're trying to make.

For a few months I shifted my habits that way, it was certainly a challenge. This was me trying to overcome my social anxiety at the time, I didn't even know about INTJ back then.

Some exercises that I tried were to go out and socialize with people, but when I did I carried a 'worry stone' in my pants pocket and I would constantly rub it when I was talking to people because it gave me an outlet for my anxious energy so that I wouldn't be constantly darting my eyes around or seeming to fidget etc., so I could more easily give them my direct attention. People seem to think I'm not listening to them when I do those kinds of things, so the social interaction gets sort of stressed, not as open, if you know what I mean.

I also would greet everyone (in my own mind) with the word 'Namaste'... yes, it is 'spiritual' in origin and most people use it that way, but the way I saw it was acknowledging that we are equals, I am as good as you, we are both humans and can respect eachother regardless of our more superficial differences. This helped me to feel more confident in myself and more open to people, more understanding of them, more accepting of them and of myself.

I also tried to control my judgments of people... if I met someone and I thought "okay, this person is ignorant or shallow", I would try to counter that thought with "I don't know this person, people often wear masks in social situations. I don't know what strengths this person may have, there are good things about most people." And I also acknowledged that even if I couldn't have a deep, philosophical conversation with someone, for instance, I could still get something out of my interactions with them, like simply observing how they communicate. And if I can manage to have a positive interaction with them, it adds to the confidence/comfort in communication that I'm trying to build. I also think that when I was not judging them, they seemed less likely to be judging me harshly... or perhaps it was that people were rarely judging me harshly in the first place and I was just judging our interactions down to the last detail that I was imagining them judging me, when really it was me judging myself.

I don't know if this experience of mine will make sense to anyone else, it's more about my social anxiety, which it seems many INTJs don't suffer from, but I hope it might help the original poster a bit.

This kind of thought process really makes it hard for me to type a person that I've just met as INTP or INTJ. Reminds me of myself when I was still in adolescence.

I guess the antidote for being an INTJ (the negative things about INTJ, not being INTJ per se) is to befriend or have a mate that is opposite your type. Being involved with an ESFP would surely bring balance into your life and would make you appreciate the alogical things in life.

[ssfanatic]

With all the smilies it looks like you are off to a good start. But i dont think that the goal is logical nor feasible. Why would you even want to be an ESFP anyway? Depression has nothing to do with being an INTJ. I love what i am. I think it has more to do with your personal view of yourself. that is something possible for any personality type.

[simoncpu]

I find that being at peace with my shadow self (in my case, ESFJ) is how I overcame my depression.

If I met someone and I thought "okay, this person is ignorant or shallow", I would try to counter my thought with "I am thinking that this person is shallow because this is my way of defending myself from being hurt. Although I don't know this person yet, I am automatically branding him as shallow because I label everyone as being untrustworthy. Is it fair to label him as such? Is it fair to label everyone as such? I may have been hurt by other people, and they may deserve that kind of label, but this person has not hurt me. It is also true that there are people who are shallow and not gifted with great intellect, but is it fair to look down on others just because they are less intelligent? If I look upon everyone with contempt and hubris, what will I become? With such an attitude, will I grow into a mature human that is a blessing to society? There are good things in each and everyone of us. This person deserves my benefit of a doubt."

I have to stop typing right there. My train of thought is becoming lengthy already. :)

[uberosity]

For what it's worth, the esfp I knew was one of the most neurotic, needy people, no, the most neurotic, needy person, not to mention entirely egocentric, I have ever known. The esfp was good at saving face, but a mess all on her own. Opposite is not the answer.

[sm80403]

This is the crux of it.

Humour people. Don't always feel the need to be seen to be right, especially when it doesn't really matter. Don't express unpopular or controversial opinions just for the sake of it. Don't offer frank comments which might offend just because they come into your mind. Make an effort to make eye contact and smile at people. Indulge in small talk sometimes, however irksome. Many, if not most, people are very superficial in their judgment of others, and you'll be amazed how much difference these superficial tricks and traits can make.
Bravo! So so true! People take 'face value' and run with it, 99 times out of 100. Just look at how many idiots make it up the ladder at work. Just put on a good smiley positive show and keep your trap shut about stuff they wouldn't get anyway (been there, done that) and you too can come away without anyone discovering your true identity-- INTJ superman. . .person, I mean.





sm80403 added to this post, 3 minutes and 9 seconds later...

I don't think that you can reverse who you are, but you can change your habits, monitor your thought processes and counter those thoughts that are not progressive according to the changes you're trying to make.

For a few months I shifted my habits that way, it was certainly a challenge. This was me trying to overcome my social anxiety at the time, I didn't even know about INTJ back then.

Some exercises that I tried were to go out and socialize with people, but when I did I carried a 'worry stone' in my pants pocket and I would constantly rub it when I was talking to people because it gave me an outlet for my anxious energy so that I wouldn't be constantly darting my eyes around or seeming to fidget etc., so I could more easily give them my direct attention. People seem to think I'm not listening to them when I do those kinds of things, so the social interaction gets sort of stressed, not as open, if you know what I mean.

I also would greet everyone (in my own mind) with the word 'Namaste'... yes, it is 'spiritual' in origin and most people use it that way, but the way I saw it was acknowledging that we are equals, I am as good as you, we are both humans and can respect eachother regardless of our more superficial differences. This helped me to feel more confident in myself and more open to people, more understanding of them, more accepting of them and of myself.

I also tried to control my judgments of people... if I met someone and I thought "okay, this person is ignorant or shallow", I would try to counter that thought with "I don't know this person, people often wear masks in social situations. I don't know what strengths this person may have, there are good things about most people." And I also acknowledged that even if I couldn't have a deep, philosophical conversation with someone, for instance, I could still get something out of my interactions with them, like simply observing how they communicate. And if I can manage to have a positive interaction with them, it adds to the confidence/comfort in communication that I'm trying to build. I also think that when I was not judging them, they seemed less likely to be judging me harshly... or perhaps it was that people were rarely judging me harshly in the first place and I was just judging our interactions down to the last detail that I was imagining them judging me, when really it was me judging myself.

I don't know if this experience of mine will make sense to anyone else, it's more about my social anxiety, which it seems many INTJs don't suffer from, but I hope it might help the original poster a bit.
Wow--you and your efforts are impressive. Thanks for the post. Very informative and helpful.

[ps646566]

... Just look at how many idiots make it up the ladder at work. ...


Ain't that a fact !!

The modern world is a victory of style over substance. But yes, you can sometimes use that to your advantage. And why not ? Nearly everyone else does.

[eMachine]

I find that being at peace with my shadow self (in my case, ESFJ) is how I overcame my depression.

If I met someone and I thought "okay, this person is ignorant or shallow", I would try to counter my thought with "I am thinking that this person is shallow because this is my way of defending myself from being hurt. Although I don't know this person yet, I am automatically branding him as shallow because I label everyone as being untrustworthy. Is it fair to label him as such? Is it fair to label everyone as such? I may have been hurt by other people, and they may deserve that kind of label, but this person has not hurt me. It is also true that there are people who are shallow and not gifted with great intellect, but is it fair to look down on others just because they are less intelligent? If I look upon everyone with contempt and hubris, what will I become? With such an attitude, will I grow into a mature human that is a blessing to society? There are good things in each and everyone of us. This person deserves my benefit of a doubt."

I have to stop typing right there. My train of thought is becoming lengthy already. :)

I like that inner monologue of yours. :thumbsup:

(It may be possible that I have fairly strong P. I acknowledge my perceptions and try to rationalize or discount them. Maybe my J is a product of my attempts to overcome my social anxiety... meaning I should really call myself INTx?)

[Universe]

My theory is that a person can never change completely, so it is impossible for an INTJ to become an ESFP. There will always be something about yourself that won't change. So I'd say it's possible to change by 2 letters, 3 letters seems very unlikely.

[simoncpu]

My theory is that a person can never change completely, so it is impossible for an INTJ to become an ESFP. There will always be something about yourself that won't change. So I'd say it's possible to change by 2 letters, 3 letters seems very unlikely.

My theory is that the one who just posted this is quite attractive... ;D





simoncpu added to this post, 7 minutes and 45 seconds later...

I like that inner monologue of yours. :thumbsup:

(It may be possible that I have fairly strong P. I acknowledge my perceptions and try to rationalize or discount them. Maybe my J is a product of my attempts to overcome my social anxiety... meaning I should really call myself INTx?)

I fluctuated from INFP to INTJ then finally settled to INTP a few years ago. I dunno... My raging hormones probably played a large part in my personality during my adolescent years. There was even a time that I felt that my emotions were too overwhelming for me to handle and that I could "absorb" all the emotions of people around me.

[elsdfr]

Yeah sometimes everyone starts to get what the hell I'm talking about, there is bliss.