Calling all old loners.....

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I need input from people who are successfully living alone and above the age of ........lets say 50......that's a nice round number.

If you actually exist on this forum..........how's it goin? The living alone I mean.

[Jgib5328]

I'd be really depressed if I was alone for that long. If I was that age I'd hope to be happily married and have two kids in college by that time. But I'm about 65 I 35 E so I'm different from you guys.

Sorry I know my post isn't helpful or what you're looking for.

Do you want to be alone at that age? Or do you think you are going to be alone at that age and want to know if it isn't too bad?

[yondyr]

I live alone for half the year and have done for many years. I adore the solitude, the selfishness..til things start breaking down then I try to fix them via phone call to partner and if unfixable, then push into a corner and manage without. Once it was the fridge, but one can live without many things. He gets back sooner or later, so strictly speaking it's not really alone, just an hiatus of unknown length. So while a bit like frontier living this isn't the emotional diaspora I think you're asking about, though we have little to no contact while he's away.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I'd be really depressed if I was alone for that long. If I was that age I'd hope to be happily married and have two kids in college by that time. But I'm about 65 I 35 E so I'm different from you guys.

Sorry I know my post isn't helpful or what you're looking for.

Do you want to be alone at that age? Or do you think you are going to be alone at that age and want to know if it isn't too bad?

I would like to know if being alone can be as good and bad as not being alone. Or is it a state in which human beings are doomed to feel lonely?





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 2 minutes and 0 seconds later...

I live alone for half the year and have done for many years. I adore the solitude, the selfishness..til things start breaking down then I try to fix them via phone call to partner and if unfixable, then push into a corner and manage without. Once it was the fridge, but one can live without many things. He gets back sooner or later, so strictly speaking it's not really alone, just an hiatus of unknown length. So while a bit like frontier living this isn't the emotional diaspora I think you're asking about, though we have little to no contact while he's away.
So, if you don't mind my asking, how are things when he gets back and interrupts your solitude?

[Jgib5328]

I would like to know if being alone can be as good and bad as not being alone. Or is it a state in which human beings are doomed to feel lonely?


Judging by human nature, you are going to be lonely. We are social creatures, it's in out genes. I know it's probably not that hard now to be alone but it'll most likely get worse. I think it's always better to be with people. It doesn't have to be a lot of people, but if you just have a few people that are close to you. Plus you can still be alone for a while, but if you have close ones you can always go back to them when you want human contact.

I'm pretty sure if you want to be 50 and all alone you will be lonely. I'd be really depressed if I was all alone at that age. You probably would be to, you are still human, you need human contact to some degree.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Judging by human nature, you are going to be lonely. We are social creatures, it's in out genes. I know it's probably not that hard now to be alone but it'll most likely get worse. I think it's always better to be with people. It doesn't have to be a lot of people, but if you just have a few people that are close to you. Plus you can still be alone for a while, but if you have close ones you can always go back to them when you want human contact.

I'm pretty sure if you want to be 50 and all alone you will be lonely. I'd be really depressed if I was all alone at that age. You probably would be to, you are still human, you need human contact to some degree.
I know you're right. I'm actually not alone right now and I'm approaching 48 years old. My dilemma is that I spend about half of my time alone and the other half with my partner and daughter. I really enjoy my alone time and, I am loathe to say it, but I often resent my partner's intrusion into this time. Now, if I'm spending alot of time alone already......shouldn't that be enough? Or is it that I need more time alone than I am getting? Perhaps I'm just one of those people who need an inordinately large portion of time alone? Or is it that my partner and I just aren't jiving?

[Jgib5328]

I know you're right. I'm actually not alone right now and I'm approaching 48 years old. My dilemma is that I spend about half of my time alone and the other half with my partner and daughter. I really enjoy my alone time and, I am loathe to say it, but I often resent my partner's intrusion into this time. Now, if I'm spending alot of time alone already......shouldn't that be enough? Or is it that I need more time alone than I am getting? Perhaps I'm just one of those people who need an inordinately large portion of time alone? Or is it that my partner and I just aren't jiving?

You probably are a person who just needs a lot of alone time. Just make sure that you can spend an adequate amount of time with your partner to prevent a rift. Maybe make the compromise that you want more time to be all alone, but you'll spend more time with your partner doing things. That's what I'd do.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

You probably are a person who just needs a lot of alone time. Just make sure that you can spend an adequate amount of time with your partner to prevent a rift. Maybe make the compromise that you want more time to be all alone, but you'll spend more time with your partner doing things. That's what I'd do.
What do you think about living apart, but maintaining the relationship? Is this asking too much of him or is he asking too much of me by expecting that I can cohabitate with him?

[Jgib5328]

What do you think about living apart, but maintaining the relationship? Is this asking too much of him or is he asking too much of me by expecting that I can cohabitate with him?

I don't know your partner, but if my girlfriend suddenly asked me if we wanted to live apart after living with her. I'd get pretty offended and I'm sure that would cause problems in the relationship. But I don't know your partners personality so I can't really say. If you really are having trouble with not having alone time just tell him that. That's the only way to solve the problem. See what he says in response to that, and then work on from there. Maybe he'll be very understanding and give you more space. But definitely talk to him about it, if it's a problem.

[Colette]

I'd be really depressed if I was alone for that long. If I was that age I'd hope to be happily married and have two kids in college by that time. But I'm about 65 I 35 E so I'm different from you guys.

Sorry I know my post isn't helpful or what you're looking for.


Um - ya think? :rolleyes:

The art of learning to feel fulfilled on one's own, is in my view a difficult and subtle one. I haven't yet achieved it (at something less than 50), but am well 'on my way there'. I think most people at heart would like a SO, but for many this is unattainable, for whatever reason. I guess the key is to keep busy, develop lots of interests and hobbies, build a close circle of fun and supportive friends to hang out with, and maintain close family ties (if possible). I think for people on their own (of whatever age), the strength of ties and bonds with family and friends becomes a critical 'success factor' in terms of whether the person can feel happy, secure, and fulfilled, in their single status.

The other piece of 'advice' I have (fwiw) is to not be tempted by loneliness, depression, neediness, or whatever, to engage in behaviors that are really destructive and unhelpful to your life, or that do not reflect who you really are. Into this category I would put things like alcohol and drug overuse/abuse; serial 'casual sex' (for most INTs this is a bad track to go down, although it might be ok for some other types); co-dependent friendships, or friendship based on yours or another person's 'need', overworking, oversleeping, overeating, or basically any form of 'OCD' type stuff.

In short, I think being alone need not be being lonely or sad - it's the foundations of how you build your life, that determines whether you're a happy solo, or a dysfunctional one :)

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I don't know your partner, but if my girlfriend suddenly asked me if we wanted to live apart after living with her. I'd get pretty offended and I'm sure that would cause problems in the relationship. But I don't know your partners personality so I can't really say. If you really are having trouble with not having alone time just tell him that. That's the only way to solve the problem. See what he says in response to that, and then work on from there. Maybe he'll be very understanding and give you more space. But definitely talk to him about it, if it's a problem.
I think he's already doing everything he can to give me my space and alone time. I guess my question is more theoretical at this time.

I am trying to figure out;

a) if cohabitation is a normal state for most people or are we forcing ourselves into something that does not come 'naturally' due to other pressures?

b) are there some people who are just never able to peacfully cohabitate because they need to be alone 90% of the time (hermit types)?

c) how would you know if you were one of the people in b)?

d) how do you know if you need more alone time or if you're just trying to avoid being around your partner?





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 3 minutes and 44 seconds later...

Um - ya think? :rolleyes:

The art of learning to feel fulfilled on one's own, is in my view a difficult and subtle one. I haven't yet achieved it (at something less than 50), but am well 'on my way there'. I think most people at heart would like a SO, but for many this is unattainable, for whatever reason. I guess the key is to keep busy, develop lots of interests and hobbies, build a close circle of fun and supportive friends to hang out with, and maintain close family ties (if possible). I think for people on their own (of whatever age), the strength of ties and bonds with family and friends becomes a critical 'success factor' in terms of whether the person can feel happy, secure, and fulfilled, in their single status.

The other piece of 'advice' I have (fwiw) is to not be tempted by loneliness, depression, neediness, or whatever, to engage in behaviors that are really destructive and unhelpful to your life, or that do not reflect who you really are. Into this category I would put things like alcohol and drug overuse/abuse; serial 'casual sex' (for most INTs this is a bad track to go down, although it might be ok for some other types); co-dependent friendships, or friendship based on yours or another person's 'need', overworking, oversleeping, overeating, or basically any form of 'OCD' type stuff.

In short, I think being alone need not be being lonely or sad - it's the foundations of how you build your life, that determines whether you're a happy solo, or a dysfunctional one :)
Sounds right to me, but the part about .............."I guess the key is to keep busy, develop lots of interests and hobbies, build a close circle of fun and supportive friends to hang out with, and maintain close family ties (if possible). I think for people on their own (of whatever age), the strength of ties and bonds with family and friends becomes a critical 'success factor' in terms of whether the person can feel happy, secure, and fulfilled, in their single status......." is probably not doable so it looks like I may be a bad candidate for going solo.

[Colette]

I

Sounds right to me, but the part about .............."I guess the key is to keep busy, develop lots of interests and hobbies, build a close circle of fun and supportive friends to hang out with, and maintain close family ties (if possible). I think for people on their own (of whatever age), the strength of ties and bonds with family and friends becomes a critical 'success factor' in terms of whether the person can feel happy, secure, and fulfilled, in their single status......." is probably not doable so it looks like I may be a bad candidate for going solo.

I think it's doable if you want it and are prepared to work at building these ties. Relationships for singles involve more 'ground work' and often more persistence, since for some reason we are less 'socially acceptable' after reaching a certain age. For women, the issue will often be not fitting in well in the 'couple scene', and so not being invited places where couples are present, or women not wanting to make such invitations because of insecurity of having you around their husband or partner. This sounds kind of primitive I guess, but it's definitely something I've noticed in my 8-odd years as a divorced single.

Just out of interest, can you put some context around your OP? Are you making a decision as to whether to become single, or is it the opposite (i.e., currently single, and seeing whether you should try and partner up, before you reach 50)?

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I think it's doable if you want it and are prepared to work at building these ties. Relationships for singles involve more 'ground work' and often more persistence, since for some reason we are less 'socially acceptable' after reaching a certain age. For women, the issue will often be not fitting in well in the 'couple scene', and so not being invited places where couples are present, or women not wanting to make such invitations because of insecurity of having you around their husband or partner. This sounds kind of primitive I guess, but it's definitely something I've noticed in my 8-odd years as a divorced single.

Just out of interest, can you put some context around your OP? Are you making a decision as to whether to become single, or is it the opposite (i.e., currently single, and seeing whether you should try and partner up, before you reach 50)?
Well.......I'm with a partner, who I love very much, but it's been a hard go for me. We've been together for 7 years and just moved in together 5 months ago. I've never really made this kind of committment before so it's quite new and difficult for me. My partner is divorced from a previous 22 year marriage and he sees our problems as something that can be fixed with time and energy.

It's so hard!!!!!!!!! I don't know if I'm just too old and set in my ways, or too used to having all the control, or just not built for cohabitation, or just nuttier than a fruit cake. I'm not going to pull the plug until I've given it some time, but I could really use some advice from those who have been there and done that.

[Colette]

It's so hard!!!!!!!!! I don't know if I'm just too old and set in my ways, or too used to having all the control, or just not built for cohabitation, or just nuttier than a fruit cake. I'm not going to pull the plug until I've given it some time, but I could really use some advice from those who have been there and done that.

Haha - you sound so much like my last (ISTJ) boyfriend - a diehard bachelorette :)

Good luck, anyway, with whatever choice you make.

[coffeeloverfreak]

I'm 27 and single. When I think of the future, I don't believe I would *want* to be alone at 50. After all, even though I'm an introvert, the people closest to me (family, close friends) matter a great deal, and the idea of being alone for a good chunk of my life is lonely-sounding indeed.

On the other hand, for me, it's important to know that I could be alone and still be okay. So many people are in bad, codependent, even abusive relationships out of simple fear of being alone. These were the people hopping from one relationship to the next their whole lives, or hanging onto bad relationships much longer than necessary because they were afraid to leave. These people feel incomplete unless they're part of a couple, and I would much rather spend my life alone than ever become someone like that.

I'm a complete person in and of myself. I'd like to find another complete person to share my life with. But that doesn't mean that I need someone else to complete me. With all due respect to Jerry Maguire, I'd rather complete myself.

[Uytuun]

I'm not been there done that, but I can relate to your problem. I kind of feel that I will never be satisfied either way: without SO I'll feel lonely and with SO I'll feel restricted etc. Since I kind of base this on the experience of one serious relationship only, I can still say that it's a wild generalisation and that maybe I'll find a guy I'm more compatible with next time etc., but deep down, I'm afraid that I'll always be torn like this.

To me a LAT relationship (or even just having seperate bedrooms/bathrooms/studies, but living in the same house) seems like a possible solution, but I'm not sure your ESFJ partner will be very happy with that.

[Jgib5328]

I think he's already doing everything he can to give me my space and alone time. I guess my question is more theoretical at this time.

I am trying to figure out;

a) if cohabitation is a normal state for most people or are we forcing ourselves into something that does not come 'naturally' due to other pressures?

b) are there some people who are just never able to peacfully cohabitate because they need to be alone 90% of the time (hermit types)?

c) how would you know if you were one of the people in b)?

d) how do you know if you need more alone time or if you're just trying to avoid being around your partner?


a) Cohabitation is a normal state for most people, we are social beings and have survived up to this point in history by being close with others.

b) There are some people who cannot live peacefully with other people, they just are so introverted that they can't deal with it. Or they might be really messed up.

c) If you are extremely introverted you may be a hermit-like person. If you are so easily drained by human contact that you virtually can't stand it, than living with another person isn't such a good idea unless they are the exception.

d) That's a tricky question. If you are kind of targeting your partner or acting out of the ordinary to him/her than you have a problem with them. Like if someone said that they wanted to be alone to their partner and then they go on and hang out with their friends or something, that'd mean that there is a problem.

[Uytuun]

a) Cohabitation is a normal state for most people, we are social beings and have survived up to this point in history by being close with others.

There's a difference between being a social being and being close with others and prolonged cohabitation...

[yondyr]

Well, grrrr, being halfway round the world, I slept through 16 posts after you asked your question, vaguely.
How do I feel when he returns? Perhaps strangely, or perhaps because we've been associated so long, there's complete continuity. No adjustments needed. Life does change in that everything gets fixed, yayyy, I start cooking again, not so yayy, I have a more ordered schedule, not so yayy (the luxury of sleeping anytime, and pursuing a project at all hours of the day and night til reaching a satisfactory end or stop point).
But emotionally we have no hiatus. Being another INTJ, it's good to have shared cynicism about the external world and people, which brings a halt to the utter silence I live in alone.
For me it's been an evolutionary thing. Staging down from family and a limited community involvement to complete self centredness as I get older. Something not many women get the opportunity to do or even want. I don't think co-habitation is a natural state for all, particularly INTJ's.
When he's away I don't get lonely so not driven to go out and meet people. Five days a week I have no contact with anyone, don't leave these five acres, but perhaps I am extremely introverted since I dont read the newspapers, watch tv or listen to radio - I assume the commencement of WW3 would filter in somehow... grins.
I have no advice for anyone, just that my partner is so close to me in attitude that this works supremely well for both of us.

[ElstonGunn]

You probably are a person who just needs a lot of alone time. Just make sure that you can spend an adequate amount of time with your partner to prevent a rift. Maybe make the compromise that you want more time to be all alone, but you'll spend more time with your partner doing things. That's what I'd do.
What do you think about living apart, but maintaining the relationship? Is this asking too much of him or is he asking too much of me by expecting that I can cohabitate with him?

My grandparents did that later on in their lives. He built a new house next-door and came over for coffee a couple times a day. But my family likes to say that my grandma was very German, and she hated everything from Poland, starting with my grandpa. I guess it's possible to live apart, but in that case it was the greatest situation, is my point.

Some people have a hard time with the idea that other people like to have time alone. I'm sure you have tried to explain that to him. And likewise, it never hurts to try to see the other point of view, yourself, too. A lot of more socially-minded people see a request for time alone as pretty much the same thing as saying "I don't like you. Gosh, you suck so much that I need to get away from you." But make sure that your partner understands that it's not a personal thing. (I'm assuming that it isn't-- is that a fair assumption?)

A fair compromise pisses off both sides equally. ...Wait, maybe that's not the best way to phrase it. But the equality thing is what's important. If your partner wants you around a lot, and you want to be alone a lot, you're going to have to meet each other half way, or else end up having one person resent the other.


Well.......I'm with a partner, who I love very much, but it's been a hard go for me. We've been together for 7 years and just moved in together 5 months ago. I've never really made this kind of committment before so it's quite new and difficult for me. My partner is divorced from a previous 22 year marriage and he sees our problems as something that can be fixed with time and energy.

It's so hard!!!!!!!!! I don't know if I'm just too old and set in my ways, or too used to having all the control, or just not built for cohabitation, or just nuttier than a fruit cake. I'm not going to pull the plug until I've given it some time, but I could really use some advice from those who have been there and done that.

Well the last thing I want to do is sound like an absolute dick, but what exactly were you expecting? I'm just saying that it's gotta be a really big change for an introvert (let alone an introverted thinker) to move in with somebody. It's not quite the same thing, but I recently backed out of a potential relationship with a someone who had at least 90% of what I'm looking for in a woman, because I was a little worried about her being too clingy. I think it's fine if you want to do something like that, but I also know that a lot of people would think you're nuts if you give up on a promising relationship because of something like this.


Cohabitation is a normal state for most people, we are social beings and have survived up to this point in history by being close with others.

Yes, we survived because we stuck together. But since there aren't as many sabre-tooth tigers and Vikings running around now, there's no safety-based reason to live together. It's regressive to suggest that people should live together. ...And yes, I'm just being a smartass, so don't take this part too seriously.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I'm not been there done that, but I can relate to your problem. I kind of feel that I will never be satisfied either way: without SO I'll feel lonely and with SO I'll feel restricted etc. Since I kind of base this on the experience of one serious relationship only, I can still say that it's a wild generalisation and that maybe I'll find a guy I'm more compatible with next time etc., but deep down, I'm afraid that I'll always be torn like this.

To me a LAT relationship (or even just having seperate bedrooms/bathrooms/studies, but living in the same house) seems like a possible solution, but I'm not sure your ESFJ partner will be very happy with that.
No he wouldn't indeed, but also I think that sort of living arangement is probably worse in many ways than living in different houses.

[Jgib5328]

Yes, we survived because we stuck together. But since there aren't as many sabre-tooth tigers and Vikings running around now, there's no safety-based reason to live together. It's regressive to suggest that people should live together. ...And yes, I'm just being a smartass, so don't take this part too seriously.

My argument isn't that we need other people to survive, it's that our genes think we need to be with other humans to survive. That's where love, friendship and all of that other crap comes from. Well love's purpose is also to get us to reproduce, but my point is, is that these are all evolutionary things.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

How do I feel when he returns? Perhaps strangely, or perhaps because we've been associated so long, there's complete continuity. No adjustments needed. Life does change in that everything gets fixed, yayyy, I start cooking again, not so yayy, I have a more ordered schedule, not so yayy (the luxury of sleeping anytime, and pursuing a project at all hours of the day and night til reaching a satisfactory end or stop point).
Well thanks....I think? But seriously, you don't harbor any resentment or feelings of intrusion during the initial stages of reunion? If not, did you feel these things at the beginning of this relationship?





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 6 minutes and 56 seconds later...

Well the last thing I want to do is sound like an absolute dick, but what exactly were you expecting? I'm just saying that it's gotta be a really big change for an introvert (let alone an introverted thinker) to move in with somebody. It's not quite the same thing, but I recently backed out of a potential relationship with a someone who had at least 90% of what I'm looking for in a woman, because I was a little worried about her being too clingy. I think it's fine if you want to do something like that, but I also know that a lot of people would think you're nuts if you give up on a promising relationship because of something like this.
Well thanks for not wanting to sound like an absolute dick......you don't.......maybe a partial dick.....?

Anyway, I'm really not sure if it's him or me. Do I just need alot of time alone or is he really grating on my nerves with the myriad little things he does that seem to disrupt my day?

The question remains......just because it's a promising relationship, does that mean that it will be good for someone like me?

[ElstonGunn]

Well thanks for not wanting to sound like an absolute dick......you don't.......maybe a partial dick.....?

Anyway, I'm really not sure if it's him or me. Do I just need alot of time alone or is he really grating on my nerves with the myriad little things he does that seem to disrupt my day?

The question remains......just because it's a promising relationship, does that mean that it will be good for someone like me?

Yeah, "partial dick" sounds about right. Unless we're talking about anatomy, then it sounds painful. :laugh:

But about it being promising... Again, I don't want to come off as insulting to you (I'm asking this because I suck so much at reading social situations).... but do you enjoy the relationship? If you do, and if he does, I'm inclined to believe that something could be worked out.


Addendum: ... As long as the both of you aren't too rigid in your habits and preferences. If you're not interested in reaching a compromise, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to look for one.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Yeah, "partial dick" sounds about right. Unless we're talking about anatomy, then it sounds painful. :laugh:

But about it being promising... Again, I don't want to come off as insulting to you (I'm asking this because I suck so much at reading social situations).... but do you enjoy the relationship? If you do, and if he does, I'm inclined to believe that something could be worked out.


Addendum: ... As long as the both of you aren't too rigid in your habits and preferences. If you're not interested in reaching a compromise, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to look for one.
Partial.........could be talking about anatomical size which, when you think about it, wouldn't be painful for anyone involved.

Yes and no. I have enjoyed the relationship up until we moved in together. Is this an indication that we shouldn't live together? Is it just the typical short-lived redefining period that everyone goes through when they are first living together? Does it mean that I shouldn't live with anyone? Does it mean that I shouldn't live with him, in particular? For the love of all that may or may not be holy, depending on what your own personal beliefs or non-beliefs may or may not be........what does it mean????? For that matter what does this last sentance mean????

[pavman]

... I think most people at heart would like a SO, but for many this is unattainable, for whatever reason. I guess the key is to keep busy, develop lots of interests and hobbies, build a close circle of fun and supportive friends to hang out with, and maintain close family ties (if possible)....
But don't get too busy, or the guys who actually have interest might get annoyed with your lack of availability and think screw this before things even start with them.

...I'm just saying that it's gotta be a really big change for an introvert (let alone an introverted thinker) to move in with somebody.

You do realize that our introvertedness has nothing to do with "introvert" right? It has to do with from where and how we get excited...

I.e. 1. How you are energized (Extrovert vs. Introvert)
* An Extrovert is energized by the outer world of people and things
* An Introvert is energized by the inner world of thoughts and ideas
2. What you pay attention to (Sensing vs. Intuition)
* A Senser focuses on facts and the five senses
* An Intuiter focuses on what might be and the sixth sense
3. How you make decisions (Thinking vs. Feeling)
* A Thinker tends to use reason and logic
* A Feeler tends to use values and subjective judgment
4. How you live and work (Judgment vs. Perceptions)
*A Judger prefers to be planned and organized
*A Perceiver prefers spontaneity and flexibility

Ironically, given the right people, I become very much [I]extroverted when discussing ideas and hanging out and the like. But they have to be people I respect and enjoy being around. Some people are draining to me (or having an overly social calendar).

...Anyway, I'm really not sure if it's him or me. Do I just need alot of time alone or is he really grating on my nerves with the myriad little things he does that seem to disrupt my day?

The question remains......just because it's a promising relationship, does that mean that it will be good for someone like me?

Only you can answer this question. I mean, you can have alone time without actually being alone, right? I've had alone time while visiting SOs and its usually fun. She might go walk her dog, but I don't want to go, so I relax and think or read. Or we read together, but we're reading different books and not talking much. To me, that is alone time.

I think there may be more underlying problems here than you are realizing, and I would suggest you try to work out what you mean by alone time with your SO. Perhaps setting a certain time-frame during weekdays where you get 1 or 2 hours alone to yourself might help. I mean, if his mere presence annoys you, and not just him bothering you about this and that while you are trying to be alone, then I think its definitely deeper than mere introversion.

I live alone, and, no matter how much I don't like to say this, I'd prefer to have a roommate or someone to shoot the breeze with on a regular basis. I find that people tend to help regulate my day. I work from home, so living alone is tough because I usually get energy from people when in the right company. Although I am more towards the middle of the road as far as INTJ is concerned (%). Unfortunately, I don't think the % breakdown is available anymore on most of the sites I used ages ago to type myself, without forkin over the ca$h.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I live alone, and, no matter how much I don't like to say this, I'd prefer to have a roommate or someone to shoot the breeze with on a regular basis. I find that people tend to help regulate my day. I work from home, so living alone is tough because I usually get energy from people when in the right company. Although I am more towards the middle of the road as far as INTJ is concerned (%). Unfortunately, I don't think the % breakdown is available anymore on most of the sites I used ages ago to type myself, without forkin over the ca$h.
Yeah.........I get about 4 hours of alone (no other person around) time a day. But, it's really hard to be alone when he's around because he's an ESFJ and he is either talking to me, or to my daughter, or to the dogs, or to himself ..........you get the picture. But, this seems like small potatos to me. I mean, so what....right......."Buck up Bucky," I say to myself. He's always been like this. I've put up with way more from my kids. What's the big deal.

But, it is a big deal.

[ElstonGunn]

Yes and no. I have enjoyed the relationship up until we moved in together. Is this an indication that we shouldn't live together? Is it just the typical short-lived redefining period that everyone goes through when they are first living together? Does it mean that I shouldn't live with anyone? Does it mean that I shouldn't live with him, in particular? For the love of all that may or may not be holy, depending on what your own personal beliefs or non-beliefs may or may not be........what does it mean????? For that matter what does this last sentance mean????

There are a lot of things to think about. I might, contrary to my cold INTJ nature, suggest "feeling about" these things, too.

I tend to look at these things in a "Which is worse" scenario. For example, is it worse to bail out on this relationship and not have the closure of knowing that it wouldn't have worked out... or is it worse to stick with it, and run the risk of being uncomfortable and/or miserable with the relationship? Or as a less extreme example, is it worse to put up with his annoying habits and feel drained, or is it worse to do take some time alone and then deal with his complaining about it and his misinterpretation of what that means?




You do realize that our introvertedness [I in INTJ] has nothing to do with "introvert" right? It has to do with from where and how we get excited...

Right. Given the nature of this discussion, I felt comfortable to use the term 'introvert' in a more colloquial sense, sort of as a synonym to "loner" as per the title line. But in a technical sense, introverts can be very outgoing and sociable. There's no rule that says they can't.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Well..............I will think on it for sure. However, in the meantime, I'm hoping to get some perspective from those who have been there and know.

[yondyr]

Well thanks....I think? But seriously, you don't harbor any resentment or feelings of intrusion during the initial stages of reunion? If not, did you feel these things at the beginning of this relationship?
Fraid not, I've done all the exploring of the world I care for while he's been gone, or at least had the opportunity and probably let it pass out of inertia. Although, not having doors on this partially built hacienda does cramp my privacy - even with him being an INTJ. A hovering ESFJ would probably drive me bonkers. erm that's not very helpful, is it?

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Fraid not, I've done all the exploring of the world I care for while he's been gone, or at least had the opportunity and probably let it pass out of inertia. Although, not having doors on this partially built hacienda does cramp my privacy - even with him being an INTJ. A hovering ESFJ would probably drive me bonkers. erm that's not very helpful, is it?
Have you had a relationship with anyone who comes close to an ESFJ?

[yondyr]

I think perhaps so...my first husband. At some point I realised I had three sons instead of a husband and two sons and it irked to the point of calling a halt. He found someone who gave him the feeling he was being protective, caring, considerate, but who in fact controlled every aspect of his life, grins. I wasn't about to dominate anyone, else I'd lose respect for them.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I think perhaps so...my first husband. At some point I realised I had three sons instead of a husband and two sons and it irked to the point of calling a halt. He found someone who gave him the feeling he was being protective, caring, considerate, but who in fact controlled every aspect of his life, grins. I wasn't about to dominate anyone, else I'd lose respect for them.
So.....was he controlling in a passive-aggresive way? Was he unaware of his effect on those around him?

[Hoorurly]

If I may jump into this conversation.... I've been married over 35 years to an ISFJ. For the past 3 years he's been living in Kosovo (working) and I've been here in the U.S. Our whole relationship has been very bumpy. It took a long, long time for him to understand that I needed alone time. He is very clingy. I have lots of hobbies and he resented them, he resented the time I spent taking care of the kids, etc. I used to tell everyone that I was his "hobby" since he always made me feel like his whole life depended on me. It was such a horrible feeling. Anyway, he has gotten better through the years. Since he's been away, I have sold 2 houses and moved from one state to another - all on my own. I take care of pretty much everything myself. Do I like it? On one hand it's very natural for me and I don't have a problem with it, but, honestly, I do like the feeling of sharing a life with someone and sharing decisions. As much as he annoys me at times and there were plenty of times I thought about leaving, I'm glad I never did.

But unlike yondyr, when he comes home, it is like an interruption to me and takes me some time to adjust. I love my alone time, I've never hooked up the TV, don't have a radio, and basically live in my own little world. He has been coming home about twice a year since he's been in Kosovo, but only for a couple of weeks at a time. I'm usually OK during the time he is home because I know that it's only temporary. I know when he comes back home to live, we will have some difficult times readjusting though.

But the bottom line is that I really don't want to live alone as I get older. I do miss the companionship when he is not here even though I like my alone time. As much as I like being alone and being independent, there is a part of me that just needs a companion to live with. It's just a matter of making the relationship work for both, which can be done.

[yondyr]

Critical self analysis is beyond some people, though I'd say passive/aggressive is a harsh judgement in his case. They're still together these many years later so like me he found a perfect match. Far be it for me to suggest all types should find one from the same category though I suspect INTJ's more nearly suit that pairing. And that doesn't help you at all, sorry.

Ooooo, congrats, Hoorurly. Sounds like ideal for you both, and the greater maturity you both have will make it work. Eventually my partner will be with me full time and I'll do the same adjusting, although on five acres and separate work/environment areas it's easier to shut the other out.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

But the bottom line is that I really don't want to live alone as I get older. I do miss the companionship when he is not here even though I like my alone time. As much as I like being alone and being independent, there is a part of me that just needs a companion to live with. It's just a matter of making the relationship work for both, which can be done.
Finally!!!! Someone who has been there. O.K. now your going to get drilled......if it's O.K . with you.
First of all........why is it so imortant to you that you live with him? Why can't you live apart (as you do now) and have a relationship? I need specific reasons because my INTJ brain is not very flexible.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 1 minutes and 51 seconds later...

Critical self analysis is beyond some people, though I'd say passive/aggressive is a harsh judgement in his case. They're still together these many years later so like me he found a perfect match. Far be it for me to suggest all types should find one from the same category though I suspect INTJ's more nearly suit that pairing. And that doesn't help you at all, sorry.
Well.....thanks anyway yondyr.

By the way, I took the test to see who I was attracted to (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)...........ESFJ's

[Hoorurly]

I thought I posted this already, but for some reason it's not showing up so I don't know what I did with it! I'll see if I can remember what I said.

Anyway, I've really had to think about this one. I think the bottom line is I like having the companionship of someone here with me. There are lots of things that I really hate to do and although I do them because I have to, it is nice to have someone here with me to do those things. My husband and I are truly opposites but we balance each other out in many ways.

Plus, I do think living apart can be very selfish unless both parties are in complete agreement. I don't think it would be much of a relationship if I only wanted him here when I needed something or when I was in the mood to do something, and knowing me, I'd probably feel intruded upon if I didn't want him here at a particular time he wanted to be here. I think that a live apart relationship would just fade away eventually because I would lose interest. I do know that a live apart relationship would not work for him. He could not handle it.

I don't know if this helps any, and I'm still going over your question because it is has really made me think.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I thought I posted this already, but for some reason it's not showing up so I don't know what I did with it! I'll see if I can remember what I said.

Anyway, I've really had to think about this one. I think the bottom line is I like having the companionship of someone here with me. There are lots of things that I really hate to do and although I do them because I have to, it is nice to have someone here with me to do those things. My husband and I are truly opposites but we balance each other out in many ways.

Plus, I do think living apart can be very selfish unless both parties are in complete agreement. I don't think it would be much of a relationship if I only wanted him here when I needed something or when I was in the mood to do something, and knowing me, I'd probably feel intruded upon if I didn't want him here at a particular time he wanted to be here. I think that a live apart relationship would just fade away eventually because I would lose interest. I do know that a live apart relationship would not work for him. He could not handle it.

I don't know if this helps any, and I'm still going over your question because it is has really made me think.
O.K. well, I'm going to wait for your further response because, although I get what you are saying here, I feel like there's more to it.

Specifically, I'm concerned that if I stay with him I might begin to resent him and that things might end badly. However, if I move, then we can probably remain a couple. I'm not saying this will happen........I'm just concerned that it might. Would that really be a selfish thing to do? Is this a bad way to co-exist and, if so, why?

Also, if you think you might lose interest if you didn't live with him.....is this a reason to stay?

[Wapiti]

It took a long, long time for him to understand that I needed alone time. .

Hoorurly: If I may ask, about how long are we talking here, how long is a "long, long time"?

[Hoorurly]

Hoorurly: If I may ask, about how long are we talking here, how long is a "long, long time"?

I would say it was at least 15 years into the marriage before he understood that I needed my alone time. And even after all these years, sometimes I still have to remind him because it is foreign to him. He does not like to be alone. He doesn't have to have a lot of people around him or be in a crowd, he just doesn't like to be alone.

Specifically, I'm concerned that if I stay with him I might begin to resent him and that things might end badly. However, if I move, then we can probably remain a couple. I'm not saying this will happen........I'm just concerned that it might. Would that really be a selfish thing to do? Is this a bad way to co-exist and, if so, why?

Also, if you think you might lose interest if you didn't live with him.....is this a reason to stay?

If I may ask, why might you begin to resent him? I don't think living apart and remaining a couple is a bad thing - IF you are both in agreement. I'm not sure whether you have stated his feelings about it or not.

As far as losing interest goes, for me, it is only a reason to stay if I want the relationship to continue. If I don't care that much about the relationship, then no it wouldn't be a reason to stay. But I know myself and I know that I would become independent to the point that I wouldn't want to be bothered with the relationship.

When my husband and I were going through some very serious marital problems and I was going to leave him, a friend of ours told us to remain in the house together no matter how long it took to work things out, even if that meant one of us sleeping on the couch. We followed that advice and it really turned out to be the best advice we ever got. I know without a doubt if I had left as I was intending we would have ended up divorced. I'm sure you are going to ask why I stayed with him if our problems were that serious. I stayed with him mainly because we had two kids and I wanted the marriage to work for their sakes because he was (is) a good father. Right or wrong, that was the motivation. But I did learn that love is more than feeling (corny as that may sound). Love is more of a commitment to the other person and putting that person's needs ahead of yours. I knew that my husband loved me more than life itself and if I left him or even moved out for a while it would totally devastate him. And I did care about him even with all the problems. We eventually (still took a while) came to a lot of mutual understandings about each other. And we made it work. And I'm not sorry that I stuck around. We have a good relationship now.

I don't know if any of that information will help you because I don't think your relationship is bad, but the advice to stay together in the same house no matter what is probably what saved the relationship for me.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I don't know if any of that information will help you because I don't think your relationship is bad, but the advice to stay together in the same house no matter what is probably what saved the relationship for me.
Sounds like true love alright. That's alot of self-sacrificing. Probably for both of you.

I'm afraid that I'll end up resenting him for a number of reasons, but I guess it boils down to .........I feel that, before I moved in with him he treated me like I was number one in his life (for many years) and now I'm just not as important (still important just not number one). It feels like a cheat to me. Once I entered his 'domain' things changed for him and me. This is because he didn't want certain things to change within his established 'domain' (he hates change). What this means for him is that he gets to control alot of things and have things the way he wants. What this means for me is that I have not nearly as much control as I want or am used to, I have to deal with things as he dictates, and if I don't, then a rift is formed between us.

I believe that once a couple moves in together, that their lives should become an equal partnership were each has to compromise and also consider the other's needs and wants as of primary importance. He isn't doing that anymore (it seems that way to me) and, therefore, I'm not doing it anymore.........this leads me to resentment. He says he's O.K. with things the way they are, but of course he has most of the control. He tells me to take control, but I can't take it if he won't let me...........not without even more upheaval. And, to be honest, I don't want to have to wrestle it from his hands. It's like telling someone to say, "I love you." He should be doing this of his own free will.

[polysylvester]

Vaguely,
Thanks to my ex, I've learned a lot about "healthy relationships" after spending 18 years in an unhealthy one. My visual representation of a healthy relationship is to represent each person by a circle representing their entire "interest and activity space". In a healthy relationship they should overlap to a significant degree, but there should also be part of each circle outside of the other. The circles should not be one inside the other! Each person should have some interests that are their own.
I have been divorced for two years from someone who had a weak "self" and was very needy. She was controlling and abusive in an effort to meet her needs. I have been much happier with my space back. We are still involved in raising kids together, and she has her own career. You would think that going off to work in different directions would be enough, but it wasn't. She was insecure to the point where she wanted me to carry both a pager and a cell phone in case one wasn't working. She had to know where I was at and what I was doing at ALL times! It was overwhelming to me. I am not really a loner, but I value my alone time. I am almost never lonely. BTW, I'm in my 50's.

[Hoorurly]

Ok, I can understand that setting up resentment. If you feel that he has taken control of your life and it would only be more upheaval to get some control back, then that is not good for you or the relationship. In my case we were married and had kids so the main objective was to stay together and work it out.

But I don't think you guys could go back to the relationship it was before you moved in together. I personally think the damage has already been done and even if you live apart, you will see him and the relationship in a different light.

I agree with you on how a relationship should be after you get married or move in with someone, but unfortunately, it usually doesn't work that way. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high? It usually takes a lot of hard work and lots of tears before a relationship truly becomes a partnership. And both parties have to be committed to making it work, no matter what.

I think he's OK with the relationship the way it is because he seems to have the control. I think if you were to start taking some control, he wouldn't be OK with it any more. But like I said, even if you live apart, I'm not sure you would really be happy. If you want to stay with him in a relationship, living apart or together, I think you are going to need to work out the issues of compromise and partnership.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Vaguely,
Thanks to my ex, I've learned a lot about "healthy relationships" after spending 18 years in an unhealthy one. My visual representation of a healthy relationship is to represent each person by a circle representing their entire "interest and activity space". In a healthy relationship they should overlap to a significant degree, but there should also be part of each circle outside of the other. The circles should not be one inside the other! Each person should have some interests that are their own.
I have been divorced for two years from someone who had a weak "self" and was very needy. She was controlling and abusive in an effort to meet her needs. I have been much happier with my space back. We are still involved in raising kids together, and she has her own career. You would think that going off to work in different directions would be enough, but it wasn't. She was insecure to the point where she wanted me to carry both a pager and a cell phone in case one wasn't working. She had to know where I was at and what I was doing at ALL times! It was overwhelming to me. I am not really a loner, but I value my alone time. I am almost never lonely. BTW, I'm in my 50's.
I can understand why that would be difficult for you. My partner is not so much needy as controlling. He's not a control freak, but he does have controlling tendancies. When we didn't live together it wasn't that important, but now that I have been stripped of alot of the control (since moving in with him) it is becoming a problem for me. If my partner were more intropsective, then I think we could work this out. However, when I talk to him about this stuff he just doesn't get it. I believe he thinks that as long as he's happy......we're all happy or something. It's hard for him to go there with me and so it's all on me.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 8 minutes and 23 seconds later...

Ok, I can understand that setting up resentment. If you feel that he has taken control of your life and it would only be more upheaval to get some control back, then that is not good for you or the relationship. In my case we were married and had kids so the main objective was to stay together and work it out.

But I don't think you guys could go back to the relationship it was before you moved in together. I personally think the damage has already been done and even if you live apart, you will see him and the relationship in a different light.

I agree with you on how a relationship should be after you get married or move in with someone, but unfortunately, it usually doesn't work that way. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high? It usually takes a lot of hard work and lots of tears before a relationship truly becomes a partnership. And both parties have to be committed to making it work, no matter what.

I think he's OK with the relationship the way it is because he seems to have the control. I think if you were to start taking some control, he wouldn't be OK with it any more. But like I said, even if you live apart, I'm not sure you would really be happy. If you want to stay with him in a relationship, living apart or together, I think you are going to need to work out the issues of compromise and partnership.
You're probably right. I guess I was thinking that if we went back to separate 'domains,' then he wouldn't feel as threatened by me trying to change his nice little cosy, comfortable world and I wouldn't feel like I didn't really matter any more. But, perhaps there really is 'no going home.'

I'm always curious and puzzled by the strong motivation of commitment. I mean the desire to ...."make it work, no matter what...." baffles me. Not that I'm averse to hard work or commitment, but if you're at an impasse and you both start to become unhappy and stay that way????? Anyway, I'll continue to plug away.......some counseling too and we'll see how it goes.

[Hoorurly]

No, if you are at an impasse and are both unhappy, then you shouldn't stay that way. A commitment is just a pledge that you are going to do something. It all depends on how strong that commitment is whether or not you will "make it work, no matter what...". A lot of times we commit to something and don't really mean it. In a relationship, sometimes one is committed and the other is not. It just depends.

There are no perfect mates and there are no perfect relationships. In my case working through everything, as difficult as it was, worked to our mutual benefit.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

No, if you are at an impasse and are both unhappy, then you shouldn't stay that way. A commitment is just a pledge that you are going to do something. It all depends on how strong that commitment is whether or not you will "make it work, no matter what...". A lot of times we commit to something and don't really mean it. In a relationship, sometimes one is committed and the other is not. It just depends.

There are no perfect mates and there are no perfect relationships. In my case working through everything, as difficult as it was, worked to our mutual benefit.
O.K. Well thanks for the input. I really do appreaciate it. Just trying to puzzle out how much effort and time is enough to know when to quit. I think we should try everything we can though so we're going to get some counseling too.

[SeaCzar]

Lots to comment on here......

I am also divorced from a very unhealthy relationship. It was a terrible break-up, and I've not seen my daughter in 12 years (at this point, she is an adult, and knows where to find me). Contacting her would make life between her and her mother worse (I can only imagine how bad it is already).

That said, I think that one should differentiate between being alone, and being lonely. I am quite often alone, but I have never been lonely (take into account that I am also an only child).

As for romantic relationships, I am done. Forget the time and expense. I will never endure another emotional nightmare like that again. Period. My marriage was the worst part of my life, and I am not about to have it repeated. While I would not say that no woman is worth it, its too risky.

As humans, it is certain that we need contact with others. It is probably more important for INTJs to have the support system of the (few) good friends they have than other MBTI types.

While I am not the best to comment on "how to" and "what if" in relationships, I can tell you this: If its not working, regardless of the reason, get out quickly. Do not allow it to drag on. That makes matters worse.

Thoughts/comments?

[terencec]

I am not old loner. I do believe alone does not mean lonely, enjoy it most of time because of the freedom. When I have a chance to go out with a lot of people, I could feel lonely on the other hand if there is nothing we are in common.

Only a few really good friends is good enough for me. Relationship is not the solution to cure the loneliness. In the bad relationship, it may feel more lonely but it may help one to release the sex tension at least.

One should find something he/she likes and enjoy it.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Thoughts/comments?
Are you in any sort of relationship now or do you tend to have casual affairs or what? And how are these sorts of attachments (if any) working for you?





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 1 minutes and 15 seconds later...

I am not old loner. I do believe alone does not mean lonely, enjoy it most of time because of the freedom. When I have a chance to go out with a lot of people, I could feel lonely on the other hand if there is nothing we are in common.

Only a few really good friends is good enough for me. Relationship is not the solution to cure the loneliness. In the bad relationship, it may feel more lonely but it may help one to release the sex tension at least.

One should find something he/she likes and enjoy it.
What is you relatiopnship experience and are you in a relationship(s) now?

[polysylvester]

I can understand why that would be difficult for you. My partner is not so much needy as controlling. He's not a control freak, but he does have controlling tendancies. When we didn't live together it wasn't that important, but now that I have been stripped of alot of the control (since moving in with him) it is becoming a problem for me. If my partner were more intropsective, then I think we could work this out. However, when I talk to him about this stuff he just doesn't get it. I believe he thinks that as long as he's happy......we're all happy or something. It's hard for him to go there with me and so it's all on me.


Vaguely, Control issues generally result from an inherent insecurity. Depending on the cause of these insecurities, counseling may or may not help. Good luck.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Vaguely, Control issues generally result from an inherent insecurity. Depending on the cause of these insecurities, counseling may or may not help. Good luck.
Agreed. The thing about my partner is that, as much as he is not very intropective at all, he is very open to looking at himself. The problem is he needs alot of guidance. So...I figure a counselor would be better qualified than me and have much less bias toward our situation.

I have my insecurities too so I'm hoping for help there as well.