Female Competitiveness

[Aurelia]

Many of the friends that I have made often begin comparing themselves to me (I suppose it's natural for everyone to do that on some level). A few of the women would begin actively trying to compete with me. I felt as though they were always trying to "one up" me in everything (career, education, romantic relationships etc.) At times the jealousy was very obvious and I am left feeling bewildered. Typically what ends up happening is I cut the friendship off. It's draining having someone constantly comparing, competing and finding ways to sabotage you.

Do other INTJ women find themselves in competitive relationships with other women? How do you disengage from that type of dynamic with insecure women?

[Synamon]

There is a thread (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)looking at comparing ourselves with others if you want to read about that perspective. I've always been surrounded by more men than women so I haven't noticed that it's a gender thing. People compete with me (and I with them) sometimes, it's part of the dynamic between people.

Usually people don't even realize they are doing it so a conversation telling them that it makes you uncomfortable will generally get them to stop. Often people imitate as a form of flattery, acknowledging that you value them for their own individual skillset can get them to focus on their own strengths instead of imitating yours. On the other hand, if they really are obsessively jealous then you probably have no other option than to remove them from your life.

[Tough Love]

Yes, but i may not be the right person to answer your question, as the reason i feel in competition with most other women is because i personally feel very insecure around them. Its not their fault, they are living their life according to whats appropriately been taught to them. I on the other hand choose to live my life in a different (more meaningful IMO) way and therefore find it hard to travel on their wavelength and i am a minority so why would they take a flight on mine?

I have found a very good way of 'winning' competition with other women is by acting like a man. Funny it works very well... Talk like a man, walk like a man and they are more likely to take one on face value (as long as you dont walk over anyone or act in a way that makes people around you uncomfortable) Women are for some unknown reason, suspicious of other females. I am, you are, we's all sus together.

[Aurelia]

Yes, but i may not be the right person to answer your question, as the reason i feel in competition with most other women is because i personally feel very insecure around them. Its not their fault, they are living their life according to whats appropriately been taught to them. I on the other hand choose to live my life in a different (more meaningful IMO) way and therefore find it hard to travel on their wavelength and i am a minority so why would they take a flight on mine?


You feel insecure around them? Is there a particular type of woman that you feel insecure around?

[Tough Love]

You feel insecure around them? Is there a particular type of woman that you feel insecure around?

All. Except other obviously insecure women or lesbians - not to group them in the same category at all.

[Extremophile]

I do the same as you, cut off the relationship =/ I don't want to be hanging around someone insecure who is always trying to compete in everything and not be available as a friend when I am just being myself.

As a rule, I always evaluate people before I get close to them. Mainly, I watch how these women interact with other women (are they kind or always trying to get attention from the nearest guy), and the topics they talk about (is it just clothes and gossip and silliness, or more about genuine substance which matters to me). This has worked very well for me and I have found a couple of lovely ladies in my new school that I like very much and we often cook together or take little outings.

I am a minority as well and don't see what this has to do with competition between women. One way it might help is that women with more worldly experiences and open minds are more likely to become my friends, but even some "international" women are petty and shallow. So I think ultimately it boils down to meeting genuine kind interested and interesting people.

[Luciferi]

I just avoid women in general. The kind of women I tend to get along with are the ones like me. They also have a hard time finding women they like, they look down on most other women, don't care what anyone else thinks of them, and we have a mutual respect for each other. I don't always have a lot in common with them, but we enjoy each others' company nonetheless because it is so refreshing to find other females like us.

One of my sisters is REALLY competitive. I hardly ever see her and when I do, all she can do is talk about how she's better than me or one of our other sisters. The negativity and bitchiness from her is constant. "I just bought a new car. It's a nicer car than you'll ever have!" "I just bought new furniture! I bet you don't have such nice furniture!" "The only reason you don't like my hair/clothes/make-up/etc is because you're jealous that I'm prettier!" And then she wonders why we don't like to be around her. But strangely enough, almost all of her "friends" are female and they all act just like she does. Normally I would never put up with that kind of nonsense, but it's hard to ignore family.

[Silverity]

People who compete with me are left quite dissatisfied. Either they will fail at one-upping me, or they will realize that my achievements are directly linked to my aspirations --not theirs, and that I simply won't acknowledge the effort they make into trying to beat me. If it gets to the point where I'm annoyed by someone constantly approaching me to tell me of all the things they're doing JUST like me I'm pretty good at telling them to stop being so monumentally stupid, grow an identity and get the eff out of my face.

Luciferi-- that sounds sooo annoying, haha. Do you think she has low self esteem?

[Luciferi]

My sister definitely has low self-esteem. I think she feels like she hasn't been as successful as me or our other sister and she tries to fluff her ego by publicly announcing the ways in which she hopes people will perceive she is better. When she made the car remark to me, I pointed out to her that the car I had sitting in the driveway was nicer than hers and I didn't have car payments on mine like she did. Hoooooooooly shit, that pissed her off! She started screaming and stopped out of the room, saying what a bitch I was! Everyone else sat there looking dumbfounded by the whole display. But I decided I'd had enough out of her and put her in her place. I wish she would stop comparing herself to everyone else and just be happy with who she is and her own accomplishments. It is so silly. Maybe she is an extreme case, but her behaviour is what I have come to associate with the stereotypical female.

[Ekagra]

This is very interesting - I appreciate your willingness to discuss these things. Male-Male, Female-Female, Male-Female: all these pairings can be distinguished in the way they evaluate each other. I've discussed this with my female friends. One aspect that emerges with special frequency is the way women evaluate each others appearance - the women I know say they are much harder on each other than men will ever be.

[curiousgeorge01]

^^ yea you're right. I've had women run out of the house in a hurry to meet up with me and apologize for their appearance. The only reaction I've had is "wow that rushed appearance is sorta cute on you." hahhaa.

[Aurelia]

I don't know what I would do if someone in my immediate family was super competitive. Maybe I should count my blessings that I can cut off women who annoy me. I had a friend in college who would always want to know what grades I got on a test, she wanted to know what my bra size was to compare our boobs etc. When I mentioned to her that maybe my husband and I would start trying to have a family, she called me the next month letting me know that I was the first one she thought of to tell that she was pregnant. She was a real nut but, unfortunately, not the only one I've known.

There was this book I read about aggression between women. One thing that was made clear was women will try to even the score among each other. If you are confident, attractive, have a graduate degree, live in a large home, have an successful partner etc. then it is more likely that a woman would have a problem with you. One of the solutions was to downplay these "symbols of power" so that the other woman would not seek to even the score with you. At first it bothered me having to use such tactics but...they work. There is a bit of wisdom in that especially in dealing with women who have low self-esteem.

Excerpt from the book that reminded me of your sister Luciferi…
“An individual with low self-esteem might try to act as if her power is greater than it is or overtly exert what little power she has in order to make herself feel better. She might also try to build her power in more covert ways like disparaging another woman behind her back to her superiors. A person with high self-esteem, on the other hand, feels good about herself and often has no need to become involved in such power games to prove how important she is.”

In general I imagine many INTJ women being very self-confident, educated and somewhat threatening to other women especially in how we communicate. We may instigate a power struggle without even knowing it.

[rara avis]

You all should go to Hulu and watch Kristen Wiig do her "Penelope (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)" character on SNL. Most women have met someone like her, I think.


In terms of specific, measured contests of skill, or games, I can be very competitive- destructively so, to the point where I just avoid those situations. It is not fun, it becomes deadly serious, and I ruin it for everyone. :)

In life, not really. I might look at a woman at work and wonder how she got her promotion, what would I do to work out something similar for myself; or how on earth that one manages to travel so much, how come I don't do that, and could I? Or, look at her shoes with her skirt, would that look good on me? (Or maybe, Note to self- do not ever wear that kind of shoe with that kind of skirt, it's not good.) But it's not competition, it's observation. Looking for useful or interesting info. I don't feel any particular stake in what they do or how.

I feel some satisfaction when the product of my work is the best of a group. If I showed up wearing jeans and a tshirt in a group of women in nice suits, I'd feel kind of awkward.

[curiousgeorge01]

I don't know what I would do if someone in my immediate family was super competitive. Maybe I should count my blessings that I can cut off women who annoy me. I had a friend in college who would always want to know what grades I got on a test, she wanted to know what my bra size was to compare our boobs etc. When I mentioned to her that maybe my husband and I would start trying to have a family, she called me the next month letting me know that I was the first one she thought of to tell that she was pregnant. She was a real nut but, unfortunately, not the only one I've known.

There was this book I read about aggression between women. One thing that was made clear was women will try to even the score among each other. If you are confident, attractive, have a graduate degree, live in a large home, have an successful partner etc. then it is more likely that a woman would have a problem with you. One of the solutions was to downplay these "symbols of power" so that the other woman would not seek to even the score with you. At first it bothered me having to use such tactics but...they work. There is a bit of wisdom in that especially in dealing with women who have low self-esteem.




What a nut job, hopefully her child is terrorizing her as we speak. ;) I'm all about Pyrrhic victories...

While I can't comment on the extent that competitiveness goes on in the female world, I know in the man world it happens too and the above tactic works pretty damn well. For some reason if I'm social, a lot of men start comparing themselves to me in terms of looks, intelligence, and strength. I guess it's their way of 'displacing me on the alpha male totem pole,' one that I didn't even know existed. Anyway, since my early 20s, I always act as if I have no goals, I don't care about women, and just quietly make my way in and out of parties. I haven't had any issues since then.

But yea I do know women will resort to more vicious social attacks in order to take someone out. I guess if you compare it to the wild it's like the men are lions and the women are the jackals; they need numbers in order to take a lion out. This most likely carries out over into how women deal with each other too. I've lived with 3 women at one point and they used those tactics on me often. Not fair on how I can't punch them in the face to compensate.

[Luciferi]

When I mentioned to her that maybe my husband and I would start trying to have a family, she called me the next month letting me know that I was the first one she thought of to tell that she was pregnant. She was a real nut but, unfortunately, not the only one I've known.

That kind of thing reminds me of a lot women I know in one particular circle in which I sometimes move. Most of them are mothers and they LOVE to say how much better they are than some other woman because they have more children than she does. They are constantly bragging about how they have more kids or better kids or got pregnant before so-and-so did or whatever. It is really stupid and I kind of just roll my eyes and hope that I never get pregnant, lest I end up in that kind of drama!


One of the solutions was to downplay these "symbols of power" so that the other woman would not seek to even the score with you. At first it bothered me having to use such tactics but...they work. There is a bit of wisdom in that especially in dealing with women who have low self-esteem.

If I am forced into a situation where I have to deal with an insecure woman who is constantly comparing everyone, I usually recognise her for what she is right away. Sometimes the best thing to do is nip it in the bud before things start getting catty and make it a point to compliment that particular woman on something. Some of those women will need frequent and regular compliments, but if you notice them, they feel important and respected and won't feel like they need to be in a contest with you. Sometimes this even has the effect of creating an interesting phenomenon where that woman is actually on your side and gets angry if anybody else says something nasty about you!

In general I imagine many INTJ women being very self-confident, educated and somewhat threatening to other women especially in how we communicate. We may instigate a power struggle without even knowing it.

Absolutely true, I think. I have had other women tell me on occasion that the real they don't like me is because they find me intimidating. It's not something I try to do, but I think the body language and unconscious signals I send out might be enough to have that effect. And I notice that other INTJ women have the same mannerisms that I do.


In life, not really. I might look at a woman at work and wonder how she got her promotion, what would I do to work out something similar for myself; or how on earth that one manages to travel so much, how come I don't do that, and could I? Or, look at her shoes with her skirt, would that look good on me? (Or maybe, Note to self- do not ever wear that kind of shoe with that kind of skirt, it's not good.) But it's not competition, it's observation. Looking for useful or interesting info. I don't feel any particular stake in what they do or how.

Yeah, I don't think that is competition. Really, it's a form of appreciation. I wish more women could acknowledge that there will always be some other woman out there who is better at something than they are and try to emulate her instead of putting her down.

I feel some satisfaction when the product of my work is the best of a group. If I showed up wearing jeans and a tshirt in a group of women in nice suits, I'd feel kind of awkward.

Me too! I went to a cattle-call style interview the other day and it was very, very early in the morning. I wore a really nice, professional looking outfit... and when I showed up, there were tons of people wearing jeans (ripped ones, not nice ones), t-shirts, and even one girl in pajama bottoms and flip-flops! And here I was, worried I wasn't going to look nice enough, but in comparison to every one else, I was over-dressed. I have to say, I felt rather smug about that!

[rara avis]

As for other women competing with me... if they are, I don't think I've noticed. But then, I'm thinking of the women I associate with. The others, I really am not sure I would notice. I'm just not around them much.


Ohh, wait. I do know one. She completely outranks me in the office, and in terms of business knowledge/skills... and level of care about either thing... but I have found myself in situations where she seems to clearly be trying to one-up me in terms of relationships with business associates. Which overall tends to be a serious forte for her- networking, etc. I guess she just wanted to make that clear? But she wasn't trying to cut me in a business sense, but in a who's-better-friends-with-X way.

I found that I had to backpedal fast out of the danger zone, let her win. I actually told the person who happened to be a "bone of contention" - an ISTJ from another office with whom I had a natural, random rapport - to please be discrete in giving her any impression that he and I were friends, because of this.

When he sent me a joke t-shirt as a Christmas present, I honestly really was tempted to do something like wear it to work on Casual Friday, and, if she asked about the nerdy joke on the front say, "Oh, this? X gave it to me for Christmas, isn't he nice? It's just a dumb inside joke we have." :laugh: But I'm not that foolish- and I'd probably gag on the cheeziness of it, anyway. Besides, she wouldn't ask.

It would be unwise of me to win that particular competition. (I bet I could, though. ;)) I wonder what I would do, if I didn't have to worry about the political aspect of it. When someone does directly challenge me like that, hrm... in certain situations, I kind of want to take the bait.

[Storm]

I believe this phenomon is called "Keeping up with Jones." It is seen in both men and women. It is an undesirable trait on a certain level. To push it exclusively upon women is dishonest.

I see nothing wrong with competing within certain environments, though (I may be friends with my classmates, but there's no question I'm competing with them).

When people do start one-upping, repeat this line "Oh, that's so nice, you must be so proud."

[fatkattykat]

I find that I "compete" with women in the sense that I compare myself to them, but I have no intention of trying to "one-up" anyone. I do tend to compete with other women more than men...but that has to do because of a similarity. It is easier to "compare" yourself to someone who is like you, than someone who is completely different.

I have noticed this trend when I go to the gym. When I get on the cardio machines, it lists the intensity, duration, calories burned, etc. from the work out. Well, I will notice that when I am on an elliptical, and I up the resistance on or two notches, I noticed that sometimes the woman next to me will up her resistance level to more than mine, even if she had been going at the same resistance for most of the work out. I do feel kind of "outclassed" when they do that, but I am not going to physically kill myself in a battle with some b*** I don't even know.

[rara avis]

When people do start one-upping, repeat this line "Oh, that's so nice, you must be so proud."

Do you have to sound sincere when you say it?

[Storm]

Do you have to sound sincere when you say it?

It doesn't matter. Most people won't realize what you're doing no matter how you say it. ;)

[curiousgeorge01]

I believe this phenomon is called "Keeping up with Jones." It is seen in both men and women. It is an undesirable trait on a certain level. To push it exclusively upon women is dishonest.

I see nothing wrong with competing within certain environments, though (I may be friends with my classmates, but there's no question I'm competing with them).

When people do start one-upping, repeat this line "Oh, that's so nice, you must be so proud."

Yea it def is noticed in both. Maybe just the methods and how each gender thinks of it is different.

[Bluesea]

Originally posted by Aurelia
It's draining having someone constantly comparing, competing and finding ways to sabotage you.

I relate to this. I prefer to have male friends as a rule as there is less of this. But it is one clear way I use to choose my female friends - when this is not present. People that end up as friends tend to operate from their intellect, individuality, and their security within themselves than from ego defences, emotive reactions, and comparisons. I also think it comes from insecurity and is based on overcompensation for lower self esteem.

I too just tend to reduce as much contact as possible with the person if not x them completely. I also try to assess what it is that I am doing to trigger this response in them and change what I am doing of I am forced to interact with them due to the situation. It is very draining and unpleasant until effective strategies are applied or if the person just persists, because they strongly identify with being and/or prefer to be a competitive type. Sometimes I just end up not saying much around them and shutting down, as I can't be bothered with the process, then eventually leave, as life is too short for this kind of bs.

Originally Posted by Aurelia
One of the solutions was to downplay these "symbols of power" so that the other woman would not seek to even the score with you. At first it bothered me having to use such tactics but...they work. There is a bit of wisdom in that especially in dealing with women who have low self-esteem.

I don't think it is a good strategy to alter the truth about yourself, but it is helpful to share your human weaknesses with others, so that they recognise you have vulnerability as well as the strengths you may be less aware of, that they are seeing, and responding to competitively to.

Originally Posted by Aurelia
In general I imagine many INTJ women being very self-confident, educated and somewhat threatening to other women especially in how we communicate. We may instigate a power struggle without even knowing it.


It may be something about INTJ that makes them more private, so are less comfortable with sharing their vulnerabilities and weaknesses. Inadvertently, even though they are aware of these, and feel inside equally 'human' to everyone else, and can be mystified by why a person is reacting to them the way he/she is, what they don't realise is, that without sharing their weaknesses and vulnerabilities with others, others are assuming that the INTJ is presenting themselves as not having any weaknesses. This can irritate people and result in behaviours that start to react to the INTJ's demonstration of their strengths in negative ways.

I have been mystified about these kinds of responses when they have occurred for me, as they also seem so off base with where I have been coming from or my intent and reinforce the 'misunderstood' part of social experience for me. I have also been given feedback that people are intimidated by me at work and have been equally mystified by this. In my most frustrated moments I have felt like it is not ok to be myself and have strengths, that all people want is to make weaknesses 'real' than working from strengths, but slowly I have come to realise that they want to feel ok about their weaknesses and only do when you share yours and want me to be 'real' about these with them to connect with me as a human being. It's a strange world we live in ... and we are strange creatures too ...

[zibber]

I find that I "compete" with women in the sense that I compare myself to them, but I have no intention of trying to "one-up" anyone. I do tend to compete with other women more than men...but that has to do because of a similarity. It is easier to "compare" yourself to someone who is like you, than someone who is completely different.

This is too easy, but what is the criterion for comparison? Biological features? How do these relate to any kind of human competition?

(Except for trite things I'm sure nobody here indulges in, like "breast size", I absolutely don't see why women would compete with women before men simply based on some physiological fact.)

[ProxyMe]

This is too easy, but what is the criterion for comparison? Biological features? How do these relate to any kind of human competition?

Not so much biologically, although some women who place their value most highly in the physical do tend to compete on this level (who is able to attract more male attention, breast size, waist size, etc.)

I have noticed that some women want to compete with me in areas such as academic success, career, and in general for the esteem and respect I've earned over the years. Usually these are very insecure women who have no sense of value or desire to better themselves. It's much easier to attempt to destroy another person than to apply the energy and effort to improve oneself. Fortunately this only works on the superficial, rationals don't follow gossip on a whim.

Usually I don't choose to associate with this type of female. There is no benefit and they are not a friend. I have other friends who are in some areas more successful than myself, and in others I am more accomplished. We tend to encourage and challenge each other to raise our standards and work harder to better ourselves. If a friend exceeds me in a particular area, than I applaude them...and then attempt to better myself. It's not about being the best or being better than anyone else, but rather about challenging and improving oneself.

[larkin]

Hmm. I think Synamon made a good point to say that competition is a dynamic between two people. That's not, of course, to say that some people might bring it out in other people more than others.

I don't think this is type-specific at all. But specifically of the INTJs I know, there is one woman in particular who probably feels like she has this problem a lot. She's very, very smart, in some ways self-confident, and quite successful, but so are a lot of women I know, so I doubt that's the reason why. But I think she probably thinks that's why.

Nope, her issue is a mixture of inadvertent presentation and ego masking insecurity. When she's done something she's proud of she'll say so directly, no soft-selling or fake humility, so on that level good for her. But the ego itself can be wearing. For example: when we were out at a gay bar, most people are aware that it's probably pretty unlikely that this guy was hitting on her in the conventional sense. He was just being nice. So her cold shoulder to him was not only awkward and totally uncalled for, but done specifically to cover up the fact that she had no idea how to respond to him, because the compliment made her anxious - ego masking insecurity. (Ego and self-esteem - definitely not the same thing. Usually inversely proportional.)

In so many ways she's a great person and I ultimately don't mind. But I have seen other people around her react poorly to it. Try to take her down a peg, in a way.

[Luciferi]

There was a girl I hung out with in high school who had the BIGGEST ego ever. She was constantly paying herself compliments and didn't even notice the eye-rolling coming from the rest of us. So for Christmas, we got her a keychain that said "I'm so great I'm jealous of myself" and she thought it was a compliment! She drove us nuts! Seriously, get over yourself!!!

[fatkattykat]

This is too easy, but what is the criterion for comparison? Biological features? How do these relate to any kind of human competition?

(Except for trite things I'm sure nobody here indulges in, like "breast size", I absolutely don't see why women would compete with women before men simply based on some physiological fact.)

I think it has to do with gender socialization. Men and women are judged by different standards. There are many criteria for comparison. Sometimes it is something trivial like "breast size." Especially because many women grow up believing that their self-worth is linked to the way they look. Sometimes, when growing up, a female is often pitted against another female, or is indoctrinated to believe that she is not on a competitive level with men for whatever reason. I don't know if any of you ladies ever had a mother or teacher say "Why can't you be social like X girl" or "Why can't you dress like Y girl." A woman cannot compare breast size with a man, just as a man can't compare penis size with a woman. You can't compare apples and oranges.

[rain]

To be honest, I've had more MEN be competitive with me than other females.

In odd cases when a friend's been competitive (not usually, but sometimes this happens between women who have known each other for a long time) I usually humor her. "Yes, darling, you are the most lovely person in the world, and definitely the sexiest, and if you were a man, I would marry you." etc.

I'm not particularly competitive with my family either- despite my SIL's competitive behavior. If she brags about something, I say, "Good for you! You do have very nice taste in furniture." Even if I hate her taste in everything. I don't think this is being deceptive however, because sincerely I feel happy that something of such little consequence gives her so much pleasure, then all the best to her.

[Ceres]

Back in high school for about a year i had one of my friends start competing with me. I think she had become jealous of how close i was to another person which excluded her to some extent. She made my life hell for that year. She tried to beat me academically, which she had no hope at, and managed to convince the friend that i was close to that i hated her or something like that. I found this frustrating at the time, because i didn't see why there had to be so much conflict.

I talked to her very little the following year and then the next year we got back together. We were no longer in the same classes, and our friendship group had expanded, so the competition was no longer such a problem.

When we meet up though she typically brings up what we are studying and she still tries to out do in knowledge, by quizzing me on topics we both have learnt at uni. I generally give an uninterested response, and play down any of my achievements.

Competition isn't restricted to female-female relationships though. I've had a number of men pit themselves against me, but this is mainly in academics. Only this one girl has tried to sabotage my friendships as well.

Personally, i've never felt the need to be directly competitive with others. Competing with myself is enough.

[MartinH]

There was a girl I hung out with in high school who had the BIGGEST ego ever. She was constantly paying herself compliments and didn't even notice the eye-rolling coming from the rest of us. So for Christmas, we got her a keychain that said "I'm so great I'm jealous of myself" and she thought it was a compliment! She drove us nuts! Seriously, get over yourself!!!

You went to school with Seriously?!

I get this from time to time from guys, I find the best way to deflate it is just to offer compliments back, instead of playing the game. Almost noone seems to knows how to either deliver or receive compliments, so it's normally quite unexpected.





MartinH added to this post, 2 minutes and 16 seconds later...

This is too easy, but what is the criterion for comparison? Biological features?

Posture.

[Goodday]

Is it conceited to say that the only person I ever compete with is myself? I ignore all other attempts at competition and can't really understand the point. I've just found that I always want to outdo myself as in, going a little longer on the elliptical or a little harder etc.... Anyone else this way too? I hope that doesn't make me self-centered.

[MusicWorld]

I agree with several other people here; the solution is compliment, compliment, compliment. Tell them how happy you are for them that they got, a promotion, shining new partner, whatever, and compliment them on whatever they are wearing like shoes, dress, anything. In my experience, all their competitiveness disappears and they start complimenting you in return...On the other hand, if someone gets so competitive with you it is because they feel thoroughly inferior, and you will never become real friends. I suppose that's why we all tend to have friends who are similarly successful to ourselves. I have several close females friends and I would say all of them have a very similar level of success in life to my own (and nevertheless we compliment each other a lot ;-) I suppose that it's just to make sure we defuse any competition).

[Luciferi]

You went to school with Seriously?!



You know what I meant. :p