Has there ever been a UK-US special relationship?

[MrFlaneur]

Im English before we start.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of you are scratching your head and thinking "what special relationship - never knew we had one" which would really speak for itself.

A lot of this has been in the press recently on the back of GIs criticizing our tommys by saying we arent really committed in Afghanistan, and remarkably that we dont pay attention to hygiene in the field. A lot of US commanders are saying that we arent performing as we would have done 20yrs ago for instance.

We all know that the "special relationship" stems from WW1 WW2 and Roosevelt + Churchill.
Good examples of the special relationship would include I think WW1, WW2, Bletchley Park (and general intel sharing since), the falklands, most things post 9/11 (Blair Bush relationship, Iraq, UN diplomacy, Afghanistan and technology transfers (see radar, nukes JSF) etc etc

On the other hand of course we have the blackmail of Lend Lease and the humiliation of Keynes in Washington which probably killed him off, the US aggressively pursuing the UK over the abolition of the Empire for commercial purposes and trade access. The humiliation of Suez with Eisenhower. General whim-like economic screw tightening used with malice, and the massive spat over Vietnam with Wilson. And generally of course taking into account scale, a relationship of $16trillion VS $2Trillion and 300million people VS 61 million people is only ever going to be servile.

What do you think?





MrFlaneur added to this post, 2 minutes and 38 seconds later...

Add to this that we are becoming more culturally divergent by the day





MrFlaneur added to this post, 7 minutes and 39 seconds later...

Did I mention the Kennedys and democrats supporting the IRA for 30 years

[daydreamer]

not sure what the question is. your text indicates that indeed there is a special relationship.

curious though, what makes you think the kens and the dems supported the ira?

[ArtistTyrant]

The UK is considered by top US officials to be one of it's best allies, from a historical perspective. Also involved is the Anglophone cultural similarities between the upper class in Britain and in the US, which is becoming marginalized by bad immigration policies that even Benjamin Franklin was concerned about.

[Causa Mortis]

Its a completely special relationship. There's been no significant policy split over the past 100 years, and we've been allies where I think either party would consider an invasion of one the invasion of another (even outside of the Nato relationship). The CIA doesn't even bother to spy on them, Australia or New Zealand - and they spy on EVERY other country in the world.

Sure, there's always petty bullshit, but that's present in any human interaction.

[pip]

<- English

We share a lot of common ground with our cousins accross the water, and indeed have at the very least seemed to help each other when such help was needed etc etc...
And although you guys seem to be going through a rather intense period of Imperialist profiteering (which I will admit we English went through a few centuries ago), we do still love you - even if we don't agree with, or even understand you as much as we thought we did.

While we are like the old geezer at the family barbeque who is content to sit quietly on the bench with a jug of cider, you're like the kids running around screaming and being a pest :p
We are nothing alike, but we're still family.

[Tristan]

The US is currently the world's most powerful country, and in theory, the person at the top cannot ever have true friends.

I'm an anglophile, though, and I think that due to our shared ancestry, the United States, Great Britain, and Australia can all trust each other implicitly. This is a special friendship. While we may compete as typical nations do, there is remarkable solidarity between the US and UK who, in quick succession, have been the world superpowers. It is a rare occurrence.

[Lucid]

And although you guys seem to be going through a rather intense period of Imperialist profiteering (which I will admit we English went through a few centuries ago), we do still love you - even if we don't agree with, or even understand you as much as we thought we did.

Well, you probably understand us more than you might like to admit since you did go through a similar period at one point. Hopefully we grow out of it as the UK appears to have done in large part. We appreciate your friendship though and you know we love you stodgy old frumps. ;)

While we are like the old geezer at the family barbeque who is content to sit quietly on the bench with a jug of cider, you're like the kids running around screaming and being a pest :p
We are nothing alike, but we're still family.

Quite so. We hear that you think we're loud and rude... but we're really just a younger and rowdier version of you. :p I'd say our nation is in its adolescence.

I'm an anglophile, though, and I think that due to our shared ancestry, the United States, Great Britain, and Australia can all trust each other implicitly. This is a special friendship. While we may compete as typical nations do, there is remarkable solidarity between the US and UK who, in quick succession, have been the world superpowers. It is a rare occurrence.

I agree and I think I'd add Canada to that list as well. It appears that all of the UKs former settlements and colonies still maintain strong ties to each other and to the UK. Not a bad deal for any of us, I'd say.

[thod]

The biggest problem facing China in its quest for kingship is the US-Europe alliance. They know all too well that is in the final analysis Europe will come down on the side of the US and vice-versa. Blood is thicker than water.

[Hamburglar]

Thod, while I agree that may be the case or may have been the case, I'm skeptical that it will always be the case.

[Silence]

I'm a Cold War vet.

I'm still of a mind that the Brits and Americans are peanut butter and jelly, no matter what little petty crap rises up. When the chips are down, our allies are true blue.

Our British friends rock.

[Hamburglar]

I find it remarkably interesting that you would call yourself a Cold War Veteran. Please elaborate on what that means to you, if you could as I'm personally interested.

The problem with the US UK special relationship is that it is economic, and vicariously political. We'll see where the chips fall when this economic crisis fully unfolds. Especially given that the avg. Brit does not have much if any sympathy for the US since we dragged them into a war without end or purpose. Look at the recent divergence---->
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Tristan]

I find it remarkably interesting that you would call yourself a Cold War Veteran. Please elaborate on what that means to you, if you could as I'm personally interested.

The problem with the US UK special relationship is that it is economic, and vicariously political. We'll see where the chips fall when this economic crisis fully unfolds. Especially given that the avg. Brit does not have much if any sympathy for the US since we dragged them into a war without end or purpose. Look at the recent divergence---->
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Afghanistan and Iraq are political topics. The polling assesses passions numerically, but does not account for how frivolous they are. Frivolity is the chief argument of the opposition to both wars, anyway. Which is odd, because they are still totally willing to call them wars to make them sound monstrous.

Opinion polling―a side show of a side show―gives no insight whatsoever into the nature of the US-UK relationship.

[Causa Mortis]

I find it remarkably interesting that you would call yourself a Cold War Veteran. Please elaborate on what that means to you, if you could as I'm personally interested.

The problem with the US UK special relationship is that it is economic, and vicariously political. We'll see where the chips fall when this economic crisis fully unfolds. Especially given that the avg. Brit does not have much if any sympathy for the US since we dragged them into a war without end or purpose. Look at the recent divergence---->

1. I'm not sure the divergence is really recent. You'd have to show that there's a change over time, and I'm not sure that's existed. If 9/11 had been in London instead of New York, I'm sure there would be less positive sentiment towards Afghanistan in the states than there would be in London. I'm not sure, however, that things are shifting.

2. The relationship between the US and the UK is obviously political and economic, but its also cultural, a deep military interaction, intellectual, and - although I'm not taking pride in this - racial/ethnic.

3. What is this "fully unfolded economic crisis"? This is already the worst recession since the Great Depression, and we've got several years until a real recovery has taken place.

[Hamburglar]

2. The relationship between the US and the UK is obviously political and economic, but its also cultural, a deep military interaction, intellectual, and - although I'm not taking pride in this - racial/ethnic.


I've got more Bavarian and Swedish in me then British-fear not.

I realize the use of PO polls is futile-but I was referring to public beliefs, and noting that the UK public is becoming less apt to believe that the relationship is strong enough to keep fighting for.

I take serious issue with your bizzaro world implication, that if the attack had been in UK instead of US that US support would be nil. The branding would have been completely different--and probably would have garnered the true international multilateral support that was to be expected after the fall of the soviet union. Tony Blair will probably write in some memoir to be released after his death that he wished the attack had hit Britain so that he could have been running the show-rather than attempting to pull the strings from backstage of a pawn who has 'justerfication' and political capital to spend...

[eagleseven]

I don't see how our cultures are supposedly diverging? In fact, I would argue that the opposite is actually happening...I often have a very difficult time distinguishing between our cultures.

Historically, America and the UK have enjoyed a very personal relationship ever since the Crown abandoned its colonial ambitions.

[Mader]

Special relationship from the very beginning.

Yes, we each have understood the social and political language of the other from the beginning. Australia, I agree that we all will work together, just don't know the political relatinship between the US and Aussie - cute little brother? mate?

The relationship is more than a shared origin and language.

And I don't recall any jokes/ridicule of the English coming out of the war, as we have with the French.

Canada, kinda' like the middle child. Quiet, bahaves itself well, goes about its business, doesn't draw much attention to itself, drama free, always shows up for the family holidays.

[8fishpimp8]

The support for the Afgan war by the American Left is largely an illusion, created by presidential politics...where the Democrats attempted to cast it as the "Good War" to contrast with Iraq or Bush's " Bad War".....this was campaign theatrics.




Additionally.......Kissinger said," a nation's allies are not permanent, a nation's interests are... "

That being said, I do feel a special relationship with the Britts....If you doubt what I say as a Brit how they feel being part of Europe....and then duck your head.

lest you be hit by a scone....<g>


The Atlantic Alliance is a natural one, and the only buffer England has to combat the hegemonic fantasies of a "unified" Europe.


chin chin