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qwerty
02-06-2008, 05:01 AM
So in order to start this topic here are two quotes:

Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know.

Stop talking, meditate in silence, blunt your sharpness, release your worries, harmonize your inner light, and become one with the dust. Doing this is the called the dark and mysterious identity.

Those who have achieved the mysterious identity can not be approached, and they can not be alienated. They can not be benefited nor harmed. They can not be made noble nor to suffer disgrace. This makes them the most noble of all under the heavens.

Tao Teh Ching 56 Except (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.(Bab21-bab81))


The face is the index of a person. The words are the index of one’s education. When one eats garlic and speaks, the smell of garlic comes out. Similarly, when one speaks his inner feelings, everything comes out. A person can easily be judged by his own words.

It was approximately 1800 years ago in India. There was a princess who was very wise, intelligent, well educated, and in a youthful stage ready to marry. She placed a condition for her marriage: “that anyone who is more intelligent than me will be my husband.” Many people came, but were defeated in the discussion with the young woman. She remained unmarried and the parents were sad. Those who were defeated felt humiliated and insulted. They wanted to cheat this intelligent young woman. They wanted to find a foolish man to send to the young woman, saying that he was the most wise man. They started to search for a foolish man and finally they found one. They saw a young man sitting on a branch on a tree, and with his axe he was cutting the root of the branch. These people saw it and thought, “O God! He is really a fool! He is sitting at the end of the branch and cutting the base.” They asked him to come down.

They said, “Look, you do one thing.”

“What?”

“We have a plan by which you can marry a beautiful princess, but it would require you not to open your mouth. Secondly, we’ll tell them that you are our guru, the wisest man.”

Since he was a fool he believed them. They took this man to the princess and he then went with her for the discussion. There was a very transparent curtain between the young lady and this young man. The man had been told not to talk, but that he could nod his head and make signs with his hands. He had agreed.

The young lady showed one finger (straight index finger), thinking “God is one.” The young man thought that she was showing her one finger to imply “I’ll put my finger in your eye.” He thought, ‘‘Foolish girl! If you put one finger in my eye, I’ll put two fingers in your two eyes.” He showed two fingers. The young lady thought that the man was wise. I told “God is one” but he is implying that although God is one, God and creation become two. God without creation has no meaning. Also, he is indicating, by showing two fingers, that purusha and prakriti (unmanifested God and nature) are two. Then this young lady showed three fingers, thinking that nature is of three qualities, creation is of three periods of time, and a person has three bodies. The young man thought, “Oh! She is dangerous. I told her that I’ll put my two fingers in her two eyes, and she is telling three, implying, two eyes and one ear.” The young man showed four fingers, thinking that I’ll also put two fingers in your two ears. The young lady thought that he was implying that whatever I am saying is nothing new, it is spoken in the four Vedas.

Now the young lady showed five fingers indicating, that although the Truth is in the scriptures and you can hear it from the mouth of a teacher, but the five sense organs are obstacles. The young man thought that she was so troublesome that she was implying that she would slap him. Then he thought, “If you’ll give me a slap, I’ll not leave you. I’ll give you a blow with my fist.” And he showed his fist. The young lady thought that although five sense organs are obstacles, the wise man controls it. Thus she decided, “He is the most wise man, I want to marry him.” The marriage was consummated. This foolish man could not continue the silence. The first night, when they are together in the room, an animal was howling and the princess, his wife, asked “What is it?” Now he opened his mouth. Trouble started.

Most of our troubles in life begin when we open our mouths. So long as we don’t open our mouths, we are safe. There are many saints in India who believe that there is no need to speak, and so they do not speak. If you want to speak, you have to know many things. If you don’t speak, there is no need to know anything. Sit down silently. Be happy. To observe silence is not only an art in spirituality, it is an art for successful living. Silence is of two types. One is external silence, which means not to talk.
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So, I'm interested in your thoughts on silence as a virtue or a fools errand? Can it be both, or somewhere in between?

Doppelbock
02-06-2008, 05:11 AM
Somewhere in between. Sometimes the wise person is an asshole for keeping his knowledge to himself; sometimes the idiot gets it right and shuts up for a while.

muguly
02-06-2008, 06:58 AM
I agree. Often times it's the talkative person who is wrong or foolish. They tend not to listen as well and still won't admit they are wrong. It is wise to listen first, speak last. The wise will be shown when the right time comes.

Rei
02-06-2008, 09:28 AM
Silence under one's own discretion is wisdom.

It's one of those things that can't be one or the other. Mainly I stay quiet about things I know unless it's for educational interactions/discussions... or if I see someone headed for doom due to the lack of that knowledge.

Gloed
02-06-2008, 12:38 PM
Silence under one's own discretion is wisdom.

It's one of those things that can't be one or the other. Mainly I stay quiet about things I know unless it's for educational interactions/discussions... or if I see someone headed for doom due to the lack of that knowledge.

accept the things you cannot change, change (be vocal about) the things you can not accept..

AgentofGaming
02-06-2008, 12:50 PM
I also prefer silence.
Those of ability attract attention. Attention brings risk.
This risk can include jealousy, higher expectations, and solicitors.

I'd say "Think before you speak" is a perfect ideal.

EDIT
Forgot to say this, more explicitly
of the silent, you can not know whether they are wise or foolish.

Maybe it's a bit deceiving but I liked being perceived as weak, I don't get on people's radars, people don't expect me to do things, people don't try to use me. All at a little cost of social perception.
I like when someone thinks they have full advantage of me, because in reality it is my advantage not theirs. It's a "what they don't know can hurt them" scenario, of course I don't have ill intents.

fonmaneal
02-07-2008, 04:55 PM
I also prefer silence.
Those of ability attract attention. Attention brings risk.
This risk can include jealousy, higher expectations, and solicitors.

I'd say "Think before you speak" is a perfect ideal.

EDIT
Forgot to say this, more explicitly
of the silent, you can not know whether they are wise or foolish.

Maybe it's a bit deceiving but I liked being perceived as weak, I don't get on people's radars, people don't expect me to do things, people don't try to use me. All at a little cost of social perception.
I like when someone thinks they have full advantage of me, because in reality it is my advantage not theirs. It's a "what they don't know can hurt them" scenario, of course I don't have ill intents.



You have read The Book of Five Rings way too much.

AgentofGaming
02-07-2008, 05:13 PM
You have read The Book of Five Rings way too much.

Oh but the problem is I don't read physical literature outside of what the school tells me to, aside from the newspaper and some random articles. So I've only just studied Shakespeare and some other novels like lord of the flies. Currently I read engineering textbooks...

Sadly compared to the rest of people here I haven't immersed myself in literature. (I seem to have an unhealthily large collection of computer games instead) :(

So... I haven't read it. I haven't heard of it, what's it about?

As for the above I derived that from my online video gaming philosophy and way of avoiding chores.

ElGuyay
02-09-2008, 06:05 PM
I also prefer silence.
Those of ability attract attention. Attention brings risk.
This risk can include jealousy, higher expectations, and solicitors.

I'd say "Think before you speak" is a perfect ideal.

EDIT
Forgot to say this, more explicitly
of the silent, you can not know whether they are wise or foolish.

Maybe it's a bit deceiving but I liked being perceived as weak, I don't get on people's radars, people don't expect me to do things, people don't try to use me. All at a little cost of social perception.
I like when someone thinks they have full advantage of me, because in reality it is my advantage not theirs. It's a "what they don't know can hurt them" scenario, of course I don't have ill intents.

Is there an INTJ out there who doesn't think he's Machiavelli or Hannibal Lecter? You're not the great manipulator who turns the tables on his opponents in the field of battle. You're just a quiet guy who people don't want to interact with, thus they never get around to "using you" or "taking advantage of you". It's amazing the worlds people come up with in their heads.

gabby
02-09-2008, 08:26 PM
well i dont disagree with the analogy 'they've' given us, but yes, i am absolutly discusted to be labeled with hannibal lecter. its all just a bit ... dramatic

AgentofGaming
02-10-2008, 05:44 AM
Is there an INTJ out there who doesn't think he's Machiavelli or Hannibal Lecter? You're not the great manipulator who turns the tables on his opponents in the field of battle. You're just a quiet guy who people don't want to interact with, thus they never get around to "using you" or "taking advantage of you". It's amazing the worlds people come up with in their heads.

Of course not. Like I said I apply those doctrines to online gaming than anywhere else. Computer games are probably flexing my imagination too much.
I haven't even read the prince, although maybe some views may coincide.
Also you can get used. You say you're good at something in school and someone will want to be your lab partner all of a sudden. That's already an example.

Rei
02-10-2008, 05:57 PM
well i dont disagree with the analogy 'they've' given us, but yes, i am absolutly discusted to be labeled with hannibal lecter. its all just a bit ... dramatic

Well the thing is there's different strengths of preferences for everyone. I actually think he's possibly a little more E, and a little more T and J than most of us. It makes him a lot more manipulative (extreme) than most of us are willing to go.

Br3nti5
02-13-2008, 07:48 AM
accept the things you cannot change, change (be vocal about) the things you can not accept..


well said.

I hide in silence - its difficult for me to express my emotions/myself.:undecided: