Narrowminded

[youngblooded]

Do you find most people very narrowminded, to the point that they sound and act like idiots?

[AgentofGaming]

Well not most but some. Its likely to be those people who refuse to acknowledge any point of other's perspectives, refuse facts and reason or are controlled by emotions.
It's difficult to even try to communicate with these people.

[ssfanatic]

Ha, YES. I look around and say,"Wow, this world is full of new philosophies, ideas and thoughts that i have never even contemplated, what fun. Please sir, ive never met you but what are your views on blah blah?"

While most of the people around me are more like,"Oooh, you have different views then the views i was raised on? Well your wrong and im right, that no matter what you say im still going to follow my belief blindly."

I hate people, we are so flawed. Not that i dont have a social life, theres one somewhere under the books in the corner, but people just dont want to hear your views if they are different, they want to live in a comfortable, unchanging environment.

I read a quote one time that read,"I can not say that all change is good, but i can say that for things to get better they must change"

[In Strict Confidence]

Yes, youngblooded, people really annoy me with that trait as a general trait. About everyone I meet is more narrowminded than me, and a big part of them are narrowminded to the point where they are just idiots in my eyes. There is no reflection, no skepticism... Only simple assumptions. Therefore I havnt been hanging at a forum for the last two years or so, its usually so pointless since all I do is try to explain things to convince people to be a bit more humble.

I place all my hope in this forum :p

[Zilal]

No.

[Doppelbock]

An ever increasing number of narrow minded people. Not just of different opinions than me -- but *opinionated*, i.e., unwilling to entertain the possibility they may be wrong. Critical thinkers are a dying breed anymore.

[In Strict Confidence]

... unwilling to entertain the possibility they may be wrong.
And that, my friend, is an idiot incarnate. :thumbsup:

[rwyatt365]

"Narrow minded" in the sense that there are quite a few people that are unwilling or unable to imagine thoughts outside of their own experience…yes. I am constantly surrounded by people who's only excuse for not doing something different is that, "I've never done that before", or "I'm not used to that". I find that to be incredible! Given that line of thought, mankind would never explore beyond the womb ("I can't go out there, I've never breathed air before!").

[ElstonGunn]

Well, isn't it kind of narrow-minded to assume that opinionated jerks are narrow-minded? :p Ha, meta-joke!


But seriously, one of the most annoying things to me is when people assume that whatever they think must be right. ...Not that a whole lot of people go around saying, "Well, I think this idea is wrong, but I'm going to believe it anyways." I mean, people believe what they think to be right. But it's when they don't entertain even the slightest notion that their idea or opinion might not be right that things get annoying. I hate it when people can't admit a mistake. Insisting that you're right is worse than admitting that you're wrong.

[aude]

Its more the rational fear of the unknown that preempts the unilateral decisive nature of human to explorer things that we dont think is true or what might be true. Its not really about narrow mindedness but more of releasing a hold on ones own world of presumption that we created as a child for our base of being a adult. :)

[In Strict Confidence]

You think? In some people, yeah, but I do believe that its a personality characteristic as well, or at least linked to some. Being open to new experiences, for example, is considered a personality trait.

[Provoker]

Not compared to INTJs, lol. Our minds are on a one way track.

[Uytuun]

Not compared to INTJs, lol. Our minds are on a one way track.

Not mine it isn't...Niiiiiiiiiiiiii. Aah, Monty Python.

And no, not really...but perhaps that's because I surround myself with a certain type of people. Even if people are indeed narrow-minded, I still like to listen to their opinions, they might contain interesting elements.

[Santana28]

yes, but it seems to me that people are very emotionally connected to their particular interpretation of the world, and if you challenge that then you are challenging not only their ability to percieve things but also their self-worth itself. abstractly speaking.

the people who are more stubborn and narrow-minded seem to be the people whose sense of self is more closely tied to the version of the world they most want to see. when i see something that seems to contradict what i know - i find that exhilarating. they find it severely threatening.

fyi... INTPs seem to be the most difficult to deal with because you have to not only counter their perception but also their intuition and logic as well.

[ssfanatic]

No.
ummmm...care to expound a tad? :)

[JTG]

Do you find most people very narrowminded, to the point that they sound and act like idiots?

No.

It was a reply to the OP.

I think narrowmindedness depends on how strong your N is. I'm as far away from S as possible in some respects, and some of my S friends get irritated with my tendency to think so broadly as to lose the point they're going toward sometimes.

[Antares]

Most people I know are narrowminded. I was told to correct an essay for my ENFP friend because most likely, she wanted praise or affirmation. Instead, I did the opposite. At the end of it, her paper is full of my red pen marks and question marks with criticism written on the margins; I told her to rewrite her paper all together because I don't really see the point in her fixing it. We were writing a 3 by 5 term paper, and she ended up with 8 paragraphs; some of them are just one line. it did not make sense at all, because she wrote wherever her details took her and the paragraphs don't have a topic sentence nor does it have a subject that it's focused on (I blamed it on her very strong P). She looked at me pointedly and told me she doesn't care and that she's handing this in anyway. I threw up my hands in the air and asked exasperatedly what she really wanted when she told me to look it over, because she will fail like this. She promptly left.

I find that many people are narrow-minded, and I attribute it to the strong 'S' that most of the population express, because they are unwilling to consider other possibilities (and yes, I take fundamentalists of anything as idiots, because nothing, not even overwhelming evidence and impeccable logic can sway them). I'm actually called narrowminded myself, because I don't consider their point of view. Little did they know, I've been there already. Before they even thought about the subject, I've broken it down piece by piece and weighed the pros and cons of each side, then took a certain position, one that my 'J' allowed me to keep. I can argue their side better than any of them can, because my mind simply goes to more places than they do. I'm 'narrow-minded' because I rejected their points that I've already analyzed it logically and placed an 'invalid' label over it. Whenever I listen to them, it's like hearing my thought process all over again; except without the logical foundation, but jam-packed with fallacies and ignorance (full of 'maybe's too). When I break it down step-by-step why they're wrong, they stop talking to me. Don't get me wrong. I change my views when others offer a logically valid argument and if any evidence is offered, it must be unquestionable.

[pavman]

...Insisting that you're right is worse than admitting that you're wrong.

I disagree, and I know I'm right. So screw you! ;)

Nice saying, btw... its quite quotable!





pavman added to this post, 3 minutes and 56 seconds later...

Although...on second thought... there's nothing wrong with admitting you're wrong!

[thod]

The younger you are the more people seem narrow minded. The truth is the other way around though. It is the young that are narrow minded. They have only the small set of experiences to choose from. To them the world is a simple place. As they discover new perspectives they assume they are the first to see this. They always think that there is some factor that makes thier generation different. The truth is that their new perspective is old and tired. It has been tried and dismissed. Its not that the old guy is narrow minded. He has tried all these things that are new to the youngster and rejected them. This leaves him with a set of views that work best for him. Other mens experience may differ leaving them with a different set of views.

I have my views because I reject some other people views does not mean I am narrow minded. I cant both believe in god and not believe at the same time. I must make choices of which truths are greater even if all are true.

The whole idea is to become an 'opinionated jerk'. That means you have considered all options and decided on the one that is correct for you. It does mean you have blindly accepted it as fact. It can also mean you have read all the books and argued all the points to reach that decision. I certainly dont want to rerun all the arguments again just to convince some fool that I am not narrow minded. I will state my position and that is it.

Because each man has different experiences they will wieght the arguments differntly. If you have never slept on the streets you will complain about taxs being spent of wastrals, if you have you will be more compassionate. Thus the set of resultant ideas differs from man to man.

This exploration phase is a phase of youth. You define adulthood by the settling of you opinions. Hence old people always seem narrow minded to youth.

[In Strict Confidence]

Not compared to INTJs, lol. Our minds are on a one way track.

If that was to the OP, I will have to disagree! INTJ's minds are not narrow-minded, quite the opposite. Its in the INTJ definition to be open-minded. The general INTJ is open to all different views, untill one falls into favor with argumentation and evidence. Even then, the INTJ is ready to question any, even his own, theory. I think INTJ's are (overly) skeptical to every statement.


Oh, and see Camelopardalis post. Its a great explanation to how I see it. INTJs are basically openminded and ready to embrace any productive idea. But if the idea comes without skeptic arguments, without reflection and if it has already been considered and rejected - the INTJ may seem narrow-minded in an arrogant fashion (ever watched dr. House at work?).

[Santana28]

This exploration phase is a phase of youth. You define adulthood by the settling of you opinions. Hence old people always seem narrow minded to youth.

well, i don't think we can pin something as broad as being "narrow-minded" on an entire generation. i think it transcends age, and some people never grow out of it...while some grow jaded and into it. some people simply grow tired of trying to think so much, and decide not to. they set the world on a pedestal of their choosing and simply will not come down. some people never had the capacity for it in the first place.

one thing i've learned - time is too precious to waste on arguing with someone who doesn't wish to be convinced.

[youngblooded]

I believe open mindedness is a quality that is quite rare but very important. Sadly, few people have it. Most people would agree when i say that open mindedness is very important , some even state that they possess the quality. But when the time comes, people just don't have it.

[In Strict Confidence]

Yay, I was waiting for your opinion all along. And oh, you're right.





In Strict Confidence added to this post, 1214 minutes and 6 seconds later...

@thod

I felt that I didnt agree with you, but like any good INTJ I held that to myself and thought about it some time before posting :P

But it IS hard to teach old dogs new tricks.

With age our cognitive and behavioral schemes get more cemented, probably partly through neurological reasons. These cognitive schemes are routine thinking, subconscious assumptions, system 2 heuristic, whatever you wish to call it.
Automatic thinking is sin my experience more common with age, as are these partly subconscious assumptions about how the world works. outside the neurological reasons for this, what you are saying may as well play a big part - experience. When people get older they learn that something work and something else doesnt. And when people learn that they are right, they stick to it, and utilize what they know. This causes invariety in cognitions, and a neglect of newly developed possibilities (when you have done something for 10, 20, years, you’re not willing to change, and neither are your brain).

For example, something I thought about today; Older people have slowly embraced cellphones, and now everyone even in their 50s have one. No questions about that, even though younger people embraced it first, as with the internet and other changes in the outside world. But something interesting is what has happened with watches. Wrist watches, that is. How many young people wear one nowadays? I know I quit wearing one many years ago. But as for older people, they carry around a cellphone (or two) but still wear a watch, even though its function is obsolete. This is from routines, but maybe also from fashion (at least when it comes to the people who give a shit, Dick56 most likely doesn’t), but that is a cemented fashion value as well.

I assume that you know that if someone is going to get really talented in one area, like music or sports, that person have to begin training really early. I also assume that you know how we are affected by the environment we grow up in. The reason for this is that we are VERY adaptive at a very young age, and this ability declines as we get older and our experience and adaption gives us whatever we need for the current outside world. This applies to everything psychological in particular, the way we think, what we value, how we do things and so on.

So I disagree, older people are not more open-minded than younger people. But as for narrow-mindedness I believe that age is a far less significant factor than personality. There are a lot of arrogant young assholes who never ever questioned themselves, and there are a lot of humble older people who are interested in adapting to changes - if they are good changes. Of course there are a lot of other factors as well, such as culture and spare time. But lets save that for another day.

[ElstonGunn]

I disagree, and I know I'm right. So screw you! ;)

Nice saying, btw... its quite quotable!

Although...on second thought... there's nothing wrong with admitting you're wrong!

I thought it just went without saying that INTJs are always right. The "you" refers to everyone else.

Thanks, though. It's not great to be wrong, but if you can see that, admit it, and correct the situation, then I'd see you as a very reasonable person. If you refuse to admit that you're wrong, I guess you're trying to seem like you never make a mistake, but all you're really doing is being an irrational dope.



That's an interesting thought about the young being narrow-minded. There is a general idea in a lot of people's mind that the young are the movers and shakers, and the old are the stodgy keepers of tradition. While that might be true in some cases, the opposite applies in many other cases.

I also think that it's important to decide what is meant by the term "narrow-minded" in a conversation like this. It probably has something to do with holding a belief or idea very firmly. But does it involve a searching process, or is it something that a person takes for granted? Either definition would work, which one you're using will probably change your answers to the young/old people narrow-mindedness question.

[In Strict Confidence]

Youre right, a definition is important, if we're to get serious :cool:

To me, without checking some dictionary or whatever definition the majority uses, narrowmindedness is the inability to change. Its about tradition, assumptions and routine thinking. "this is just the way it is (because i assume that for whatever reason)"

Narrowmindedness is a lack of skepticism. The inability to question yourself - your thoughts and your reality.

[youngblooded]

I've found that most narrowminded people like to base their decisions on assumptions. Like for example, I once bought a bottle of mineral water because I wanted the bottle and I left in the fridge. A few hours later, I took it out and poured the water away because I dislike mineral water. My brother so happened to walk in and began commenting on how I was wasting water and stuff.

Then, he told my dad who began yelling and screaming like the attention seeker that he was. I mean, none of them had asked me why I did so. They immediately made decisions upon assumptions. Idiots.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

The narrow-mindedness that amazes me on an ongoing basis is that many people cannot or will not see things from any other perspective than their own.

[In Strict Confidence]

The narrow-mindedness that amazes me on an ongoing basis is that many people cannot or will not see things from any other perspective than their own.

Just for the note, I love your nick. :lovestruck:

[Bossy Mom]

I prefer the term "active mind" to "open mind." It seems to me that when a person has an "open mind," that person is willing to suspend their moral code and standards while listening to the other person. In an "active mind," that person listens to the other person's point of view without a departure from their innate moral code.

[qwerty]

Hmmm,
So does the non-narrow-minded person reflect on how narrow-minded others are?

I guess it comes to how you view the world, as we each have different believes, different upbringings and different cultures.

I've been in love with this 'zen-master' story for a little bit now, and, surprisingly it has helped to answer a number of questions for myself and for others (I hope) - the meaning of it is for yourself to decide. (And for those wanting to know where it came from "Charlie Wilson's War" end of the movie).

Once upon a time there was a small boy living in a small village. The boy was born into a poor family who could barely afford to provide for him, yet the boy was happy and bright spirited. The people of the village would see him playing with the other children and sometimes he'd be left out because he couldn't afford to buy the equiptment for the games they played, and as a result the people formed the general opinion "Poor boy, he's so full of life but he's missing out".
Within the Village there was an old Zen-Master who saw this and when asked for an opinion he would simply reply "We'll See".

At the age of 13, the boy went through the traditional village manhood rituals and as was custom he was given a horse (the villages feeling sorry for him, all chipped in to buy him one). The boy rode the horse around all day everyday with his head held proud. The villages who saw him, were proud for what they did for the boy and overjoyed that he was proud and they would murmur to each other as he rode past "He's a lucky boy, and now he looks so happy, this is a good time in his life".
The zen-master saw the boy riding around town and when asked, would simply answer "we'll see".

At the age of 16, the boy had become confident in his riding abilities and was one day showing off. He fell off his horse and his leg was crushed. The horse was put down and he was given a walking stick. The boy hobbled around the town from then on though still he didn't show how much pain it had bought him. The villages whispered to themselves "Aww, poor boy, he will never walk upright again. Truly he is unlucky".
Once again the old zen-master, when approached about the boy, even given these unfortunate circumstances would simply sit back in his chair and say "we'll see".

On the boys 18th birthday, war broke out and the local government began conscripting new recruits. The boy was called in to the local army offices but was immediately sent home because of his leg. When the villages saw this, they rejoiced as it meant he would not have to goto war. They hailed in the streets "such a fortunate boy".
The zen-master was told the good news and even in the wake of it he did as always. Sitting back on his chair he said "we'll see".

So what can you take from that story?
Is the Zen-Master narrow minded and suborn and narrow minded (only using the same answer, and not being open to having an opinion).
Are the people of the village narrow minded? Changes their opinions whenever circumstances change?
Is the boy narrow minded? Keeping a positive outlook on his life no-matter the circumstances?

Perhaps they're all just people, and this is just a story and I'm the narrow minded one for thinking it relates :D. Either way, take what you will from it.

[coffeeloverfreak]

I liked that scene in CWW, even if its whole purpose was to dumb the movie down enough to make it obvious to the masses that it was, indeed, a parody and not an homage to US policy in Afghanistan. I mean, people should have been able to get the point without that scene, but hearing comments and reviews from people who've seen the movie, an astonishing percentage miss the point even with that scene.

[youngblooded]

But then again, what really matters is whether it works or not. People who are typically narrowminded tend to want to live life the "normal" way. Therefore, its very hard for them to contribute much to the bigger picture.

[In Strict Confidence]

Or themselves. Remember kids, narrow-mindedness is an inability.

[quentin]

One of my uncles once said, in his salty, folksy southern way, "As you get middle-aged, your waist expands and your mind narrows."

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Just for the note, I love your nick. :lovestruck:
Why thank you. I had to get my youngest daughter to explain what you meant.....by note and nick ......computer language???

[In Strict Confidence]

Oh.. well, "nick" is short for nickname, as the name you use on the internet. I suppose its computer language. Sorry for assuming that everyone around here is knee deep into that stuff. Somewhat narrow-minded of me :P

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Oh.. well, "nick" is short for nickname, as the name you use on the internet. I suppose its computer language. Sorry for assuming that everyone around here is knee deep into that stuff. Somewhat narrow-minded of me :P
No worries mate...........I'm computer illiterate, but I can learn.

[asongforgrace]

In reponse to thod & In Strict Confidence,
I found both of your posts interesting - and persuading. Is it possible that open-minded youngsters may seem more narrow-minded as they get older, because as thod points out, they have experienced more and therefore know what works and what doesn't? As camelopadalis pointed out, open-mindedness may be cunningly disguised as narrow-mindedness if it is not explained to the judge (you and I) that the apparently narrow-minded individual has gone through the alternatives and has come to the conclusion. That said, that's no excuse for narrow-mindedness in the true sense of the word (ie, they were never open-minded in the first place) in old people. I guess my point is that old open-minded people may seem narrow-minded at first.

In general, I have a tendency to believe that others are just like me (in intellect, integrity, open-mindedness, opinion etc [not to be too arrogant,but there you go]) - and as such I am constantly surprised and disappointed when I come across someone so completely the opposite. I don't mean someone who has a different opinion, but in this context someone who is unable or unwilling to at least consider my alternative way of thinking. Can't say I really understand, though at times I think it may be easier, certainly simpler to be very narrow-minded (but still not worth it).

[SeaCzar]

One should define "narrow-mindedness". I equate narrow-mindedness with ignorance and racism. However, if narrow-mindedness is ment as not open to new ideas and experiences, one would think that all INTJs are by default broad-minded, at least to intelligent thoughts and concepts.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

One should define "narrow-mindedness". I equate narrow-mindedness with ignorance and racism. However, if narrow-mindedness is ment as not open to new ideas and experiences, one would think that all INTJs are by default broad-minded, at least to intelligent thoughts and concepts.
One would think.

[In Strict Confidence]

One should define "narrow-mindedness". I equate narrow-mindedness with ignorance and racism. However, if narrow-mindedness is ment as not open to new ideas and experiences, one would think that all INTJs are by default broad-minded, at least to intelligent thoughts and concepts.

I did my attempt at a definition. After a short visit to dictionary.com I got these definitions of narrowminded as an adjective;
1. having or showing a prejudiced mind, as persons or opinions; biased.
2. not receptive to new ideas; having a closed mind.
3. extremely conservative and morally self-righteous.
Having a prejudiced, closed and conservative mind, and not being receptive to new ideas, is to be narrowminded.

Still, as you say; being openminded is a part of being an INTJ. Although, arrogance may follow in the same way as some people have stated here.. when you think you have tried all alternatives yourself, you will appear narrowminded (or even act narrowminded, maybe).

In general, I have a tendency to believe that others are just like me (in intellect, integrity, open-mindedness, opinion etc [not to be too arrogant,but there you go]) - and as such I am constantly surprised and disappointed when I come across someone so completely the opposite. I don't mean someone who has a different opinion, but in this context someone who is unable or unwilling to at least consider my alternative way of thinking. Can't say I really understand, though at times I think it may be easier, certainly simpler to be very narrow-minded (but still not worth it).

Well, I could quote some elitistic statement by Schopenhauer for example.. But hey, lets be humble, there are of course bright sides with narrowmindedness. It makes things easier. And making assumptions is what knowledge is about, its just a question of where you draw the line between "I think" and "I know". Generally people tend to be quite narrowminded, and I do believe that its a trait that may follow extroversion (in the classic meaning of the word), but in a different way than arrogance. After all, we are very social beings, and there is no way we could consider every fact our high tech society gives us, so people generally makes assumptions.
Personally I often see this as stupidity, but I can certainly understand it.