Are INTJs the Princes Machiavelli envisioned?

[Kas]

I'm reading a lot about and from Machiavelli nowadays and it occured to me that INTJs are perhaps the true princes. Keirsey defines the INTJ type as:

INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake... INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play... Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel... This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals... Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense.

Often nicknamed the strategist, I really think Machiavelli is thinking about an INTJ type to be the prince of a principality. After all, which other type is able to rule with such detachment? Always seeking the best option to solve something, natural leadership, self-confident. Was Niccolo an INTJ himself?

I just joined this community so I'm still chrystallizing my thoughts. I wanted to throw this ball up to see what the opinion of this board is though. Thanks.

[thod]

INTJs love thier rulesets for how to handle situations. Old machi just provided you with another set. All that is needed now is to identify those situations and you can use the rules without having to think further.

INTJs do well with their rules against normal people. The INTJs have efficient and optimsied rules that others dont. They do poorly against masters though. They can know the rules too and can second guess what the INTJ will do. The master will be do illogical things just to throw the INTJ off stride. Its like you can produce a computer program to state the best move at any given time but it doesnt win the money its too logical.

[Tsuru]

I think most INTJs probably aren't interested in nor have the stomach for dominating others through force and subversion and ruminating over petty micro-politics to basically just "be the winner." At least with all meglomaniacal jest aside. ;P

I mean, if you think about it, how many INTJs do you see in politics and actively playing dirtier parts of the game? Not many. How many do you see in corporate positions that were obtained through conniving rather than competence? Not many. How many do you think are in organized crime? Not many.

It's a fair wager that Machiavelli himself was an INTJ, but you didn't see him going around doing any of that princely stuff. He wrote books about it. Case in point. XD

[JTG]

ENTJ (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) They're basically like us, but outgoing. It lends itself much more to a leadership type functionality.

I think we're more likely to be mad doctors in our hidden laboratories than cold, logical rulers of society. It's not that we aren't capable, it's just that we're introverts, leave the politics and such to the extroverts.

[Solaris]

ENTJ (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) They're basically like us, but outgoing. It lends itself much more to a leadership type functionality.

I think we're more likely to be mad doctors in our hidden laboratories than cold, logical rulers of society. It's not that we aren't capable, it's just that we're introverts, leave the politics and such to the extroverts.

And, yet, I hate politics. Too many damn details to remember about how is representing what. I think ESFPs are quite the Machs. Go ahead, make one angry at you one time, you'll see what I mean.

[JTG]

Machiavelli never intended the prince to become a political leader though, in the way we view the word "politics" these days. He said it's best to be loved and feared, but if you have to choose, choose to be feared. I still think ENTJ was the leader he had in mind, because of his stance that leaders have to do things that they may not personally agree with, if it's in the best interest of their people, or the security of their nation.

Introverts wouldn't be vocal enough. Sensors would stick to their personal values instead of reasoning with and looking at the concepts behind a pressing issue. Feelers.... do i even have to go there? Judgers tend to be a lot more decisive and action oriented than percievers.

I think an ENTJ would be the right mix of expression, charisma, and cold hard logic on the difficult choices. So what are you waiting for Solaris? Start taking over the world already. I'm sure a lot of us will be right behind you XD

[thod]

ENTJs are certainly bossy, "I want you to like me and to do what I say". They could never be machiavellian they want to be loved too much. If the ENTJ made it to leader but could feel the hate radiating off them he would begin to compromise in order to restore relations.

[JTG]

You mean ENFJ? I don't know many T's who care too terribly if everybody likes/loves them.

[Kas]

It's an interesting theory that Niccolo was INTJ himself. That would make a lot of sense actually, making a system for something like politics.
The ENTJ being the Prince? I just read a little on the ENTJ, and I guess that does make sense more than the INTJ. It's interesting because now that I compare the two, it seems as if most who write about power are actually INTJ and those who possess the power are ENTJ. Look at Robert Greene, he wrote a lot about it, but I definitely think he's INTJ himself.

What are the advantages of being an INTJ over an ENTJ? As said, I'm a newbie.