Senior INTJ in high school- thinking business

[Windmill]

Hey ya'll. My name is Sarah, I am from New Zealand and I am a senior in high school. Yes, I am an INTJ. I am looking for some advice anyone can give me on my job choice.

The option of taking a gap-year is apparently not available to me according to my parents ;) so I gotta figure out what to take.

They say to pursue my interests, and my interests are actually strangely enough religion. I am a devout follower of the Christian God. And not your usual one at that. Regardless I am fascinated with Apologetics and would love to pursue something like that- but no undergrad degrees are like that here, so oh well.

I'm htinking business. I currently run my own business as a small hobby. It is a trading business, I import software and video games and resell it. its going quite well. I very much enjoy it. I also do not want to work for anyone but want the freedom to be able to decide my own hours, my own fate, my own holidays etc (I wonder if this is classic INTJ behavior? Can anyone relate) so theres a degree that deals with strategic management/entrepreneurship. Its a pretty specific degree so I'd have to go for it from day one (and suffer through account classes!)

Can anyone give me advice on going into business in terms of it being rewarding and fulfilling? For 3 months I worked checkout and it was one of the worst experiences of my life (PLUS I was bad at it- how can you be bad at checkout?) I craved some form of freedom and creative outlet SO MUCH that I draw little pictures and notes for the customers secretly on their recipets (sic?). After this, I vowed to myself I will not work another job like that EVER again.

[Zilal]

I think your thinking on the issue is pretty sound... it could be a good match for you, and even if not the degree could still be useful. I didn't go that route but I did consider it... I had a great teacher in a business management class who really brought out the creative/problem solving aspects of management and made it seem very exciting.

In terms of the eventual work actually fitting that ideal, I suspect it'd vary hugely depending on what you're doing. So if you end up in a position that's deathly boring, try another! The entrepreneurship thing sounds good for you.

I craved some form of freedom and creative outlet SO MUCH that I draw little pictures and notes for the customers secretly on their recipets (sic?). After this, I vowed to myself I will not work another job like that EVER again.

Ha, I do that if I don't have a creative outlet. Start drawing stuff compulsively.

[Santana28]

hows the economy over there in new zealand? forgive my ignorance, but are there big cities and companies... or is it mostly agricultural?

new zealand is so beautiful in pictures. i can't imagine living there.

[coffeeloverfreak]

It's too bad your parents are so flatly opposed to the idea of a gap year, because IMHO kids are forced too quickly into making career decisions before really having a chance to learn about themselves. A lot of kids pick college majors because they perceive them as "practical" choices, but then later they discover it was a bad fit. For instance, a friend of mine did a 4-year computer engineering degree before realizing it was a bad fit for her, and going back to do a second undergrad degree in communication studies. She likes her new field much better and is now working at a job she loves.

If a gap year is out, why not take a degree in liberal arts, or something that will give you a broad base of knowledge. A true "education" if you will, as opposed to merely "training". You can always specialize in grad school or get trained by a job, but this is your opportunity to get truly educated. Use this time to explore the deeper themes in life - and yes, if religion is one of your passions, why not study it? Companies and hiring managers don't want robots; they want smart people who can think and learn and problem-solve.

IMHO, as a holder of a business degree, I can tell you with some assurance that a business degree can't tell you how to be an entrepreneur. It can give you some basic knowledge of accounting and finance and marketing and whatnot, but you can't learn entrepreneurship out of a textbook. Sales skills are useful in any field. But an undergraduate business degree isn't all it's cracked up to be. You might be better off with a technical or liberal arts ugrad degree, and then later, if you feel the need, a graduate business degree. But only once you've been in the workforce for a while and have had the time to learn about yourself.

[Windmill]

It's too bad your parents are so flatly opposed to the idea of a gap year, because IMHO kids are forced too quickly into making career decisions before really having a chance to learn about themselves. A lot of kids pick college majors because they perceive them as "practical" choices, but then later they discover it was a bad fit. For instance, a friend of mine did a 4-year computer engineering degree before realizing it was a bad fit for her, and going back to do a second undergrad degree in communication studies. She likes her new field much better and is now working at a job she loves.

If a gap year is out, why not take a degree in liberal arts, or something that will give you a broad base of knowledge. A true "education" if you will, as opposed to merely "training". You can always specialize in grad school or get trained by a job, but this is your opportunity to get truly educated. Use this time to explore the deeper themes in life - and yes, if religion is one of your passions, why not study it? Companies and hiring managers don't want robots; they want smart people who can think and learn and problem-solve.

IMHO, as a holder of a business degree, I can tell you with some assurance that a business degree can't tell you how to be an entrepreneur. It can give you some basic knowledge of accounting and finance and marketing and whatnot, but you can't learn entrepreneurship out of a textbook. Sales skills are useful in any field. But an undergraduate business degree isn't all it's cracked up to be. You might be better off with a technical or liberal arts ugrad degree, and then later, if you feel the need, a graduate business degree. But only once you've been in the workforce for a while and have had the time to learn about yourself.I can't study religion because there is no where to study it :( New Zealand has about 5 universities. Sure getting into them is the most pathetically easy task ever (you wouldn't believe how easy it is, its like they're begging you to join) and to study it I'd have to go to one that was quite a ways from home, so much so I'd have to live there, or study long distance which I don't really care for >.<

HOWEVER, you bring up a VERY good point, graduate school. I will look into perhaps doing a liberal arts degree then pursueing a graduate degree in the business :) thank you for your advice.

I think your thinking on the issue is pretty sound... it could be a good match for you, and even if not the degree could still be useful. I didn't go that route but I did consider it... I had a great teacher in a business management class who really brought out the creative/problem solving aspects of management and made it seem very exciting.

In terms of the eventual work actually fitting that ideal, I suspect it'd vary hugely depending on what you're doing. So if you end up in a position that's deathly boring, try another! The entrepreneurship thing sounds good for you.



Ha, I do that if I don't have a creative outlet. Start drawing stuff compulsively.Thanks :) Also- yeah I know- I draw cartoons ALL the time. Perhaps its because I'm not stimulated? ;) or just bored :laugh: but no I am not a very good cartoonist but like you I just draw them for the sake of it.

hows the economy over there in new zealand? forgive my ignorance, but are there big cities and companies... or is it mostly agricultural?

new zealand is so beautiful in pictures. i can't imagine living there.Hmm now see thats a little tricky in a way!

We have 3 major cities. Christchurch (I live here) Wellington and Auckland. Auckland has a bit over 1/4 of our population (1.3 million, NZ has a population of 4.3 million) Christchurch has about 400,000 and Wellington which also has about 400,000.

Now NZ is split up into two islands, the north and south one. I think, though shaped differently they are roughly the same size in terms of land mass.

Most of the population lives in the top half of the north island, I heard about 75% does.

So in the areas bellow it, you have a LOT of agriculture. Particularly the south island. It is essentially one big city (christchurch) and lots of little smaller towns with a few "cities" (more like towns) like dunedin breaking up the countryside. The north islands population is more dense, but in the bottom half has a fair amount of agriculture, but the top part is a lot more packed in comparison- but keep in mind, Auckland city is, for our country, huge.

New Zealand I also heard is roughly the size of England. If this is true, the area I live is essentially this: think about half of england. Now put a city there, where you can drive from one side of it to the other in 15-30 minutes (I mean from opposite suburbs, not the inner city itself, thats TINY) depending on the traffic and if you count certain suburbs. Now, think about the rest of the land as housing about 400,000 people all spread out living in small towns.

Companies wise..? We certainly have some big ones. Most of the bigger ones though are NZ based and homegrown, or from Aussie. Like Mitre 10, the Warehouse and Farmers. Everything here is a lot more expensive than in America. E.g. big red gum costs $1.25 here, where the same amount in the US would cost you 25 cents.

[Santana28]

Everything here is a lot more expensive than in America. E.g. big red gum costs $1.25 here, where the same amount in the US would cost you 25 cents.

not anymore! you can't find a pack of gum for less than a dollar nowadays.

what are gas prices like?

[Windmill]

not anymore! you can't find a pack of gum for less than a dollar nowadays.

what are gas prices like?No honestly, its cheaper. My family has been fortunate to holiday in America 6 times, and every time we go we buy LOTS of stuff because even with the exchange rate its SO CHEAP! And you have an amazing selection!

Gas prices..? Well, petrol is $1.50-60 per litre, so thats about $6 per gallon.

[thod]

The orginal question is kind off odd. Firstly you are interested in religion. I just dont see an INTJ in a clerical role. "Oh the wife is worm food then, well she was past her prime". That job is all about tact and dealing with highly emotional people. Its not INTJ work.

You can make money out of it i suppose by being a tele evangelist but you are realy selling yourself you have to be highly charismatic (and male?). Most of religion is not about making money for yourself, its going to be hard.

If you wanted to learn about business then you could sit a degree in that. From what I understand by the term 'Apologetics' its not unlike a lawyer arguing in court.

Law then an MBA is a classic combo for high fliers.


NZ is dirt cheap you can sell your apartment in London or NY and buy 4 of the same in downtown Auckland and Christchurch is even cheaper. I would go on to tell you about the prices in the "gentlemens clubs" but thats not for senior high school students.

[Windmill]

The orginal question is kind off odd. Firstly you are interested in religion. I just dont see an INTJ in a clerical role. "Oh the wife is worm food then, well she was past her prime". That job is all about tact and dealing with highly emotional people. Its not INTJ work.

You can make money out of it i suppose by being a tele evangelist but you are realy selling yourself you have to be highly charismatic (and male?). Most of religion is not about making money for yourself, its going to be hard.No see thats the problem- all jobs in religion tend to be clerical roles where you have to do stuff like that- UGH! I want to be a STUDENT of religion. You know, like perhaps not a professor but something of the sort. In a way I would but in another way also I despise how then I'm not free to do what I want- I'm bound by a job contract.


If you wanted to learn about business then you could sit a degree in that. From what I understand by the term 'Apologetics' its not unlike a lawyer arguing in court.Yes Apologetics is sort of, er, one of the more intellectual sides of stuff- Christian apologetics is the "defense of Christianity". Of course this is on the basis that I maintain my belief in God ;) which I don't see changing, but you never know, my mind is open.


Law then an MBA is a classic combo for high fliers. I know but I have little interest in law- trust me, being a lawyer in NZ is a lot less interesting than America.


NZ is dirt cheap you can sell your apartment in London or NY and buy 4 of the same in downtown Auckland and Christchurch is even cheaper. I would go on to tell you about the prices in the "gentlemens clubs" but thats not for senior high school students.Housing is cheap, day to day living isn't.

[coffeeloverfreak]

University education is about so much more than the classes or the degree, mind you. You might want to ask yourself where you want to live, what student/campus life appeals to you the most, what sorts of extracurricular activities and interests there are that might appeal to you.

One of the problems we have as INTJs is that we may be too likely to "waste" our university years doing silly little things like studying and going for the GPA, rather than "slacking off" like the other 95% of the student population. Which may seem smart, until you get out into the world and bemoan the fact that you didn't make more of an effort to get into the campus social life when you had the chance, because - believe it or not - this stuff actually matters in a career. The person who pulled Cs but was heavily involved in student life will have a great network and probably be a big success in business, and the straight-A student will end up working for him. Yeah, it sucks, but it's true.

So pick a school and a program based on more than just academics. Think about where you're most likely to feel comfortable enough to make good friends and participate in the social side of university life. And, even if it goes against your nature - it certainly goes against mine - make an effort to join, participate and get involved.

And think about the city or town itself. What sort of student life appeals to you? From my travels around NZ I remember that Wellington had a great arts/cultural scene, and Dunedin seemed to have a cool student vibe to it. Do you like the idea of living on campus? Living in the countryside? Getting a flat with roommates downtown and taking public transit to school? This is going to be your lifestyle for the next few years, so think about it carefully.

Also remember you're not limited to NZ. Taking the opportunity to study abroad and travel could be the best decision you ever make, and there are plenty of scholarship, loan and bursary programs available to help you make it happen. Some programs at local schools might even have affiliations with overseas universities to do exchange programs. If you can't travel on a gap year, maybe you can study abroad for a year or two.

[Windmill]

University education is about so much more than the classes or the degree, mind you. You might want to ask yourself where you want to live, what student/campus life appeals to you the most, what sorts of extracurricular activities and interests there are that might appeal to you. This is also an interesting point. However a lot of student activities- well, I'll be limited to, since I do not drink. It will be interesting though. I do know of one activity I am interested in, this is debating. I did debating at high school and excelled in it- but due to, er, personality clashes with the "coach" I had to drop out, and I'm looking to pick it up at uni.


One of the problems we have as INTJs is that we may be too likely to "waste" our university years doing silly little things like studying and going for the GPA, rather than "slacking off" like the other 95% of the student population. Which may seem smart, until you get out into the world and bemoan the fact that you didn't make more of an effort to get into the campus social life when you had the chance, because - believe it or not - this stuff actually matters in a career. The person who pulled Cs but was heavily involved in student life will have a great network and probably be a big success in business, and the straight-A student will end up working for him. Yeah, it sucks, but it's true.This is actually a very interesting point.

Last year I slacked off in my studies, in favour of pursuing my little hobby trading business that I started up. While I didn't get in the top 3% of the country like I probably could have with more study, I learnt so much from my little business! And the money was excellent, too, and well needed.

Now the thing is I love studying things that interest me, I get lost terribly in them (thats why when my class had finished exploring the air force museum, I was still half way through the first room) so this is a good point- my boyfriend (an INFJ, go figure, we must be the rarest couple EVER) told me his father, while a high school drop out, had contacts which were more valuable than anything. I will keep this in mind. However I'd be interested in pursuing at least a masters if possible, and later when I go into some form of religion study later in life pursue a doctorite. I'm more interested in being self-employed at this state.


So pick a school and a program based on more than just academics. Think about where you're most likely to feel comfortable enough to make good friends and participate in the social side of university life. And, even if it goes against your nature - it certainly goes against mine - make an effort to join, participate and get involved. Now heres the thing- studying away from home? Ehhhh...

I don't think I want to do that personally. The universities here are pretty much the same. Sure, some offer unique degrees, but its unlikely that I'll want to pursue those. At home I have a free ride, have people I know, and can break into the canterbury university scene easily.


And think about the city or town itself. What sort of student life appeals to you? From my travels around NZ I remember that Wellington had a great arts/cultural scene, and Dunedin seemed to have a cool student vibe to it. Do you like the idea of living on campus? Living in the countryside? Getting a flat with roommates downtown and taking public transit to school? This is going to be your lifestyle for the next few years, so think about it carefully.Dunedin's scene = drunk students :laugh:

But yeah no I just have no desire to go out there and change to a different city right now personally, I'm happy here. It would be stressful and expensive living on my own.


Also remember you're not limited to NZ. Taking the opportunity to study abroad and travel could be the best decision you ever make, and there are plenty of scholarship, loan and bursary programs available to help you make it happen. Some programs at local schools might even have affiliations with overseas universities to do exchange programs. If you can't travel on a gap year, maybe you can study abroad for a year or two.My school actually has a 4-year scholarship to Dickinsons liberal arts college that I could probably get. But I don't know if I want to. Thats in America, for four years. Thats a huge step, and for what? I don't think the education would be much better if at all better personally. But a one year exchange program sounds like a good idea :)

Thats actually some very good advise- I'll certainly keep it in mind. But I'd probably have to keep up the grades to get into graduate school.

[Kotetsu]

I think his advice about studying abroad wasn't so much to do with grades. ;)

Since I'm thinking about what to study in the future, and where, and of how much importance it will actually be to me throughout my life, I'm an interested bystander to this conversation. I live in Scotland, and socialising here, for most, amounts to getting drunk and doing whatever comes afterwards.

[thod]

This is also an interesting point. However a lot of student activities- well, I'll be limited to, since I do not drink. It will be interesting though. I do know of one activity I am interested in, this is debating. I did debating at high school and excelled in it- but due to, er, personality clashes with the "coach" I had to drop out, and I'm looking to pick it up at uni.


hmm

This is actually a very interesting point.

Last year I slacked off in my studies, in favour of pursuing my little hobby trading business that I started up. While I didn't get in the top 3% of the country like I probably could have with more study, I learnt so much from my little business! And the money was excellent, too, and well needed.


hmm

You realy do not get it at all. You must be the most boring person to ever walk the planet. I never bothered with lectures did the minimum i could. I got an A in bar room drinking though. Several parties per week was normal. I got the knickers of the girls, I played sports, and i knew 100s of people. Thats what university is for not to teach you some dry subject you can get by sitting alone in a room. You will have plenty of time to learn things later. University offers you a unique chance to live and play with thousands of other young people. You will learn far more from interacting with them, that will get your much further in yur career than you will gain from some book.

[coffeeloverfreak]

I think his advice about studying abroad wasn't so much to do with grades. ;)

I'm a she, but aside from that, you're right. My advice to study abroad was probably exactly to address that.

It sounds like you - not suprisingly for an INTJ - have a lot of concerns about venturing out on your own, learning about things that don't take place in a classroom, socializing, connecting, and experiencing new things.

Yes, all these things are scary, but instead of following your natural instinct to run and hide from them and do the 'safe' thing of staying at home and focusing on class and work, I urge you to think about acting against type, and specifically pursuing the things you find scary. It will make you a more well-rounded human being. Besides, the connections and contacts you build through uni social life are invaluable later on.

Studying abroad means learning about a new culture, venturing out away from home, learning to fend for yourself, and yes, maybe even taking part in things that seem against your nature, like all-night drinking fests. Thod might have said it a bit tactlessly, but does have something of a point. You certainly don't have to get drunk and party every night if that's not your thing, but you should at least take the chance to broaden your horizons a bit and try to force yourself to do things you didn't think you would want to otherwise do. University is your opportunity for this, and if you don't develop some of these skills at that point, you may come to regret it later on.

[Windmill]

hmm



hmm

You realy do not get it at all. You must be the most boring person to ever walk the planet. I never bothered with lectures did the minimum i could. I got an A in bar room drinking though. Several parties per week was normal. I got the knickers of the girls, I played sports, and i knew 100s of people. Thats what university is for not to teach you some dry subject you can get by sitting alone in a room. You will have plenty of time to learn things later. University offers you a unique chance to live and play with thousands of other young people. You will learn far more from interacting with them, that will get your much further in yur career than you will gain from some book.Wow, OK, thanks. :suspicious:

Heres an idea: perhaps being a "boring" person, because I don't like premarital sex, because I can't afford to just go and live on campus when I have a house 15 minutes away from a perfectly good one, because I don't like many sports and like to make close friends rather than 100's of acquaintances- oh, and because I LIKE the idea of lectures and get EXCITED about the prospect of all of this knowledge that I'll be able to learn and such, that may make be a boring person.

But you know what? I don't care.





Windmill added to this post, 9 minutes and 33 seconds later...

I'm a she, but aside from that, you're right. My advice to study abroad was probably exactly to address that.

It sounds like you - not suprisingly for an INTJ - have a lot of concerns about venturing out on your own, learning about things that don't take place in a classroom, socializing, connecting, and experiencing new things.

Yes, all these things are scary, but instead of following your natural instinct to run and hide from them and do the 'safe' thing of staying at home and focusing on class and work, I urge you to think about acting against type, and specifically pursuing the things you find scary. It will make you a more well-rounded human being. Besides, the connections and contacts you build through uni social life are invaluable later on.

Studying abroad means learning about a new culture, venturing out away from home, learning to fend for yourself, and yes, maybe even taking part in things that seem against your nature, like all-night drinking fests. Thod might have said it a bit tactlessly, but does have something of a point. You certainly don't have to get drunk and party every night if that's not your thing, but you should at least take the chance to broaden your horizons a bit and try to force yourself to do things you didn't think you would want to otherwise do. University is your opportunity for this, and if you don't develop some of these skills at that point, you may come to regret it later on.I have moral issues with drinking. At least, getting drunk. Nor do I have a desire too. And I have family social issues with touching drink- and I love my family dearly.

I appreciate this, but I don't get what my statement about studying abroad had to do with marks? I perfectly understood what you meant: focus more on the social side (BLAH) than the academics. That was a little hard to miss.

What I said, was that I have to make sure I keep up my marks because I want to pursue post graduate studies, and to get into that I certainly need better than C's.

To me, the social experience here is fine- what will Dickinsons have to offer? Little else. Sure I may be living in America, but so what? Why would I want to do that, when here I'm at a university, can get a student allowance, get an interest free loan, can switch into all sorts of things, get be out within 3 years for the undergrad, and have a large lot of people to socialise with? I see no reason other than if Dickinsons was something special academically, but instead its got a play hard work hard atmosphere which sounds awful to me.

I like having close, meaningful friends. Rather than lots of acquittance's, that are shallow.

Plus, I'll have friends here, so that'll help me break in and make more friends.

[coffeeloverfreak]

Well it sounds like you're pretty clear on what you want. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you have to do things like go out and party and get drunk, especially if you have moral or religious issues with those. But just because a lot of university social activities center on drinking doesn't mean all of them do. Why not get involved in student politics or humanitarian causes? Or write for the student newspaper? Or join the ski team? Whatever it is that's up your alley, the more you participate in and make an effort to broaden your social circle, the better.

Like you, I much prefer having a few close friends to a bunch of shallow acquaintances. But I also realize that in the business world, these seemingly "pointless" shallow acquaintances are extremely important. You don't have to be the smartest or have the most advanced degrees to be a success, but you do have to know the "right people" in the "right places". Contacts and connections are invaluable, and people who are of other MBTI types might have an easier time schmoozing and connecting and networking than those of us who are more introverted or prone to alone time. Since university is a great opportunity to build those networks, it will be easier for you to take advantage of this opportunity - in any way you choose - now, than later, when it's harder.

And studying abroad was just an example of something you could do to broaden your horizons. If it doesn't make sense to you, then don't do it. I'm just saying, don't reject things out of hand because they seem to be less "logical" off the bat, when really, they may have hidden value. For instance, it is much more practical financially to live at home with your family... but what are you missing out on with that option? The experience of living on campus or learning to be independent may be what gets sacrificed, and don't underestimate the value of campus life just because it seems less practical at the moment.

Anyway, all stuff to think about - not necessarily to follow, but at least to consider.

Best of luck!