Interracial dating/marriage

[Blue Towlie]

Sorry for creating another thread, but I am curious what the INTJs here think about interracial dating and marriages!

[yondyr]

Comparable to inter-culture, inter-national, inter-anything. Those who choose it often have a hard row to hoe without complete solidarity against what the world can throw at them.
The poll left out...it's none of my business.

[Gonzo]

Doesn't really matter to me. I've been with girls of a different race, and it I don't see how thats any different from dating a white girl. Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, and whatnot... We're all Gods children in the dark :thumbsup:

I think inter-culture dating/marriage is way harder these days.

[OneBadMother]

Uhh... why WOULD it be an issue? :P Hybrid vigor yo!

[coffeeloverfreak]

I'm just guessing that the author of this thread is American, right? For some reason this seems to be a major issue in the USA, and I don't understand why it's such a big deal otherwise. Why is ethnicity (or "race" as you guys call it... funny, I thought we were all members of the human race) so important, anyway?

[AgentofGaming]

Has author of thread been to Canada yet (Toronto/Vancouver)?
My high school alone had people from 100+ different countries.
Although I bet they exaggerated.

[ghmn]

I feel the same as most here. I've been involved with women of diff color/races, were all great. My wife is German and I'm American, the only problem we have is when to put the Christmas tree up.

So yeah, we're all the same in the dark, and yup, it's none of my business. You can be in love with toaster oven if that's what you chose.

[Blue Towlie]

Well those toaster ovens are pretty hot. :cheesy:

[James Revell]

Sorry for creating another thread, but I am curious what the INTJs here think about interracial dating and marriages!

I expect the majority of INTJ's don't see the concept as a barrier or have a problem with it, but could analytically discuss likely challenges.

I see interracial marriages as a long-term eugenic necessity. The short term cultural differences may be the major hurdle if not in a multi-cultural area.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Sorry for creating another thread, but I am curious what the INTJs here think about interracial dating and marriages!
Race is a social construct and, therefore, doesn't actually (biologically) exist.

[deicruxified]

Uhh... why WOULD it be an issue? :P Hybrid vigor yo!

in some countries it is an issue. here for instance, the chinese community is strict when it comes to marriage... they let their kids marry their own race otherwise they'll be disowned... that the typical "conservative" chinese. i quote "conservative" because that's what the call themselves. i've been with a chinese guy from a traditional chinese family before and i tell i was not a bed of roses relationship since chinese boys have a strong matriarchal-patriarchal influence and we argue about it most of the time (him being a clan drone).

going back to topic, i don't mind as long as i can adapt well with the culture... and of course he passes my standards.

[rwyatt365]

Personally, I think that inter-anything dating/marriage is an individual thing. If I could (currently married), I would. I think it broadens one's horizons and makes you a better "global citizen".

[PortInStorm]

Has author of thread been to Canada yet (Toronto/Vancouver)?
My high school alone had people from 100+ different countries.
Although I bet they exaggerated.
Same feelings here. I grew up in Mississauga (very, very multicultural), and then moved to Niagara where I almost immediately noticed the lack of diversity.

I'm not sure why there would be any question of appropriateness, EXCEPT that major difference of any kind in a marriage can put a big strain, as there is a lack of similar foundation ex. no post-secondary education vs. degree, couples from different countries etc. But this is not so much a question of skin colour, per se.

[quentin]

Most of my girlfriends have been from a different race. But then again I've spent half of my adult life in Asia. I think that I'm actually more physically attracted to white girls (I'm white), but there just aren't that many where I live: it's a numbers game - thousands upon thousands of beautiful, dateable Asian women vs. a few dozen white women in my local expat community. And half of those white women are already in relationships (many of them come overseas with their husbands/boyfriends).

I can remember one case where a Taiwanese girl told me that she couldn't continue to see me because her parents forbid her to date a whitey. Actually, make that two times, now that I think about it. There are plenty of times when some local girls here won't even give me the time of day and I get somewhat paranoid about that: are they rejecting me because of me or because I'm white? On the other hand, you do get certain Taiwanese girls that are, for a lack of a better term, foreigner groupies. If you live in a mono-racial society, there are plenty of women that will get wildly excited at any guy who looks different, from another race. I feel a certain contempt for these kind of girls, to tell you the truth. I don't like it when someone rejects me solely because of my race, and I don't like it any better when someone is attracted to me solely because of my race. To illustrate the point, here is a conversation I once had:

(Girl throws her arms around me, getting very friendly)
Me: So....you like me?
Taiwanese girl: Ni hai-hao. Wo shi-wan waiguoren! (You so-so! I like foreigners!)
Me: Uh....thanks.
(I leave)

But actually, cultural issues are a genuine sticking point, and very problematic, to say the least. "Racism" isn't perhaps quite the right word when I talk about Taiwanese women rejecting me because I'm non-Chinese - there are genuine cultural clashes that will inevitably come when dealing with American/Chinese relationships, and it would be foolish to not take those into consideration. I feel more comfortable dating Filipinas for that reason - the Philippines are by far, far the most Westernized and Americanized (it was an American colony for half a century) society in Asia, and so there are far fewer issues to deal with, and there are hordes of them in Taiwan. If you can deal with the pious Catholicism, which as an agnostic can be problematic. However, that has its own problems - one of my friends said that he would never date a Filipina because he was a self-admitted snob, he felt that it was beneath him to date someone so beneath his socio-economic status. He has a point - most of the Filipina women here are factory workers and maids, and at times it feels that there's an economically exploitative aspect to the relationship. As in: is she attracted to me or to my money and American passport?

Interestingly, Taiwan is a country where 25% (!) of the marriages in recent years are to foreign brides. Mostly from Vietnam. The thing is, that Taiwan is undergoing its feminist stage, and the modern Taiwanese woman is no longer willing to tolerate the traditional role of the Chinese wife. Another social problem is that your average Taiwanese woman is more educated and intelligent than the average Taiwanese man (Singapore also has a similar social problem). Men are willing to marry women that have few degrees and earn less money than them, but most women aren't willing to marry a guy who isn't as educated and earns less money than she does. A lot of Taiwanese men want a traditional, subservient wife and don't have the means to attract a Taiwanese woman. So he imports a bride from a third-world country. It's a win-win situation - she gets money and security, and he gets a demure, deferential to his male authority wife raised in a traditional, conservative society.

Sound familiar to North American/Western European people on this forum? Who would have thought, 15 or so years ago, the mail-order bride business would be so huge.

[Obstinate]

My philosophy in life: You haven't lived until you've dated a girl of every race :thumbsup:

[rwyatt365]

My philosophy in life: You haven't lived until you've dated a girl of every race :thumbsup:
Now I feel like the old lady in the Moen (I think it's for Moen) commercial;

…an older, Italian woman on her death-bed, her family is sobbing over her impending passing away. She is comforting them (in Italian, with subtitles running) with tales of her life's exploits – telling them not to be sad because, "I've lived a full life". She then catches a glimpse of a young neighbor-lady, sitting on the edge of her elegant bathtub (with an "infinity edge", and exquisite Moen fixtures), mutters "Damn!", and promptly expires.

The connection…I haven't dated any girl outside of my own race – although I did have several chances – so, I haven't lived…DAMN!

[Rick]

This really is a complicated subject.

I think everyone should have friends from as many cultures and countries as possible. It broads your horizons, and shows you your narrow-mindedness. I have strived for this.

On the other hand, my personal feeling is that marriage would be best between people of the same culture. The reason has nothing to do with racism or bigotry, because I'm neither.

It is purely because I believe in the benefit of tradition in holding families together. When someone who holds beliefs diverse from the family joins, things change, I think the family is diluted. I'm conservative in these things. I see the value of diversity and including it in your life, but, really, families should be closer than they are now. The lack of importance placed on family in this age bothers me.

[quentin]

I believe that marriages should ideally be between people of the same culture, but not quite for the same reasons that you do. Cultural clashes are as important as personality clashes. Would you like to spend the rest of your life with someone with a diametrically different personality than yours? Well, would you like to spend the rest of your life with someone whose view of the world is very different than yours, because of culture? Like it or not, harmony is an important component of long-term personal relationships.

[Blue Towlie]

Could the people who chose no explain their reasoning, it'd be nice to hear the other perspective!

[JTG]

My only aversion to dating outside of my own ethnicity is the difference in facial/body structures. For some reason, somebody whose features are different than mine becomes less attractive. Maybe it's my desire to find compatibility, and my eyes are fooling me into thinking they're different because they look different.

I chose the first option though. I approve of, and have been in "relationships" with girls of other races. The closest person to a serious girlfriend i've had, is black.

[quentin]

Black. Now there is the one race that I've never tried. Unless Indonesians count? No, black as their skin is, they aren't from Africa. And I did grow up in a town that was 40% black....however, at the time (and I suspect still is, to an extent) black/white coupling was very, very taboo in the American south. You could get lynched for it, 20 or so years ago - it wasn't so long ago that this shit was happening in America. Looking back, there were some pretty hot black girls in my highschool, but.....it was one of those divides. A Grand Canyon of divides.

[rwyatt365]

Black. Now there is the one race that I've never tried. Unless Indonesians count? No, black as their skin is, they aren't from Africa. And I did grow up in a town that was 40% black....however, at the time (and I suspect still is, to an extent) black/white coupling was very, very taboo in the American south. You could get lynched for it, 20 or so years ago - it wasn't so long ago that this shit was happening in America. Looking back, there were some pretty hot black girls in my highschool, but.....it was one of those divides. A Grand Canyon of divides.
Yeah, the black/white divide in many parts of the US is pretty wide (but it's getting narrower). Go to a major metro area in the south, and you might be surprised at the number of mixed-race couples.

"Back in the day" the white girls that I encountered were not terribly appealing (sorry girls, but this was in the late 60s and early 70s). The look was either "Marilyn Monroe", or "Joni Mitchell" and Asians were non-existent (except in Bruce Lee movies). By the time I discovered there was more to life than black girls it was too late, I was married!

DAMN!

[Obstinate]

:laugh: rwyatt, what ethnicity are you? Regardless, that post gets two thumbs up!

[Firelie]

Race doesn't matter to me nearly as much as culture and personality do. Unfortunately, it's hard to find people of other races with the same culture, when most of the time people of the same race grow up together and hang out together and learn how to relate to each other without learning how to relate to people outside of that particular culture.

[Lucid]

I'm just guessing that the author of this thread is American, right? For some reason this seems to be a major issue in the USA, and I don't understand why it's such a big deal otherwise. Why is ethnicity (or "race" as you guys call it... funny, I thought we were all members of the human race) so important, anyway?

Wow, your comment seems to be really down on people from the US. Interracial relationships isn't the big deal in the US that you seem to think it is. At least, not in the US I live in. I imagine that there are some places where it is still something of an issue, but this is probably true of anywhere in the world.
Unless I've greatly misunderstood your statement, in which case I apologize. But, if your comment was intended the way it comes across, you should try and learn a bit more about a nation before you insult its people. :)

[coffeeloverfreak]

Wow, your comment seems to be really down on people from the US. Interracial relationships isn't the big deal in the US that you seem to think it is. At least, not in the US I live in. I imagine that there are some places where it is still something of an issue, but this is probably true of anywhere in the world.
Unless I've greatly misunderstood your statement, in which case I apologize. But, if your comment was intended the way it comes across, you should try and learn a bit more about a nation before you insult its people. :)

No insult intended. It's just that the term "interracial relationship" seems to be an American construct, based on what I've seen. I'm not saying it's that big a deal everywhere, but compared to here in Canada, it seems that in many places in the US, it's seen as a bigger deal.

Again, these are my impressions, and I freely admit I could be wrong. I'd like to think so, anyway.

Where are you from, Lucid?

[Lucid]

No insult intended. It's just that the term "interracial relationship" seems to be an American construct, based on what I've seen. I'm not saying it's that big a deal everywhere, but compared to here in Canada, it seems that in many places in the US, it's seen as a bigger deal.

Again, these are my impressions, and I freely admit I could be wrong. I'd like to think so, anyway.

Where are you from, Lucid?

I'm from the US, as I believe I mentioned. My understanding is that many places in Asia are very uptight about interracial relationships. It's not an American construct. In India it's a big deal for people to marry outside of their social caste and I have a Pakistani friend whose parents refused to allow her to marry a Kuwati man because he was a foreigner.
Do you get frustrated when people assume that because you're Canadian you say "aboat" and play hockey? I hope not, because that's what you just did to Americans.

Anyway, I understand that your comment wasn't intended to be insulting. But if someone goes about making a lot of false statements about one's country that are based mostly on a lack of information, it can be unpleasant.

[Merle]

It's funny , when I saw this poll I thought gosh that's not even something that crosses my mind! - I can see why people in an interracial relationship may have extra outside pressure on them, but surely you have no control over who you're attracted to - who you would want to be in a relationship with... you don't go, 'oh, well he's black, I'm not going to be attracted to him' - if I see a cute guy, I see a cute guy... race comes into it not a jot...

So anyway... I thought the wording of the options was weird - I voted that I approve and would... but it's not that I approve per se... that makes it sound like affirmative action dating or something... I just don't think about it.

[coffeeloverfreak]

Lucid, I have to wonder why you reacted so defensively. I was reacting to the chosen terminology by the OP, which, to my ear, sounded American. If you perceived this as a stereotype, I'm sorry, but I didn't intend it that way.

And yes, from your earlier post I caught that you are American. I was just asking where in the US you are from.

[Lucid]

Lucid, I have to wonder why you reacted so defensively. I was reacting to the chosen terminology by the OP, which, to my ear, sounded American. If you perceived this as a stereotype, I'm sorry, but I didn't intend it that way.

And yes, from your earlier post I caught that you are American. I was just asking where in the US you are from.

I'm from Colorado.

I'm just guessing that the author of this thread is American, right? For some reason this seems to be a major issue in the USA, and I don't understand why it's such a big deal otherwise. Why is ethnicity (or "race" as you guys call it... funny, I thought we were all members of the human race) so important, anyway?

I reacted defensively because of the perceived tone of your post. I believe I apologized if I misinterpreted your statement. But this phrase: "(or "race" as you guys call it... funny, I thought we were all members of the human race)" came off as being rather snarky. So did this phrase: "I'm just guessing that the author of this thread is American, right? For some reason this seems to be a major issue in the USA, and I don't understand why it's such a big deal otherwise." Snarkiness when combined with incorrectness do not sit well with me.
But, again, if I misunderstood you I apologize. :)

[ElstonGunn]

but surely you have no control over who you're attracted to - who you would want to be in a relationship with...

I agree. But, in the same way, you also don't have a whole lot of control over who you're not attracted to. It's sort of like how red hair isn't appealing to some people ('the crazies,' as I -jokingly- call 'em). I wouldn't say that they're bad because they have a preference. It's not until they try turn their preference into a universal principle, i.e., "Red hair is inherently bad, and redheads should keep their inferior genes to themselves," that they're on questionable ground, to say the least.

But having an inter-racial relationship just for its own sake seems just as pointless as prohibiting them for their own sake (though not morally wrong). It seems just as dumb to me to say "Hey look at me, I'm datin' an Asian guy!" as it would be to say "No daughter of mine is gonna go runnin' off with a colored boy."

So that's basically my long way of saying that if you like the person, go for it. If not, don't. Don't force anything either way.

[PortInStorm]

No insult intended. It's just that the term "interracial relationship" seems to be an American construct, based on what I've seen. I'm not saying it's that big a deal everywhere, but compared to here in Canada, it seems that in many places in the US, it's seen as a bigger deal.

I'd agree that here in Canada, the term culture is used more than race, and that we don't hear much controversy over interracial relationships. However, I haven't lived in the States, and like Lucid says, there are a lot of 'cultural' tensions in multicultural communities here. We just don't hear about it because our country's image rests heavily on multiculturalism. We don't like to hear that it may not be working quite as smoothly as we would have hoped.

[TheFreeThinker]

I believe that marriages should ideally be between people of the same culture, but not quite for the same reasons that you do. Cultural clashes are as important as personality clashes. Would you like to spend the rest of your life with someone with a diametrically different personality than yours? Well, would you like to spend the rest of your life with someone whose view of the world is very different than yours, because of culture? Like it or not, harmony is an important component of long-term personal relationships.


What about two people from two different cultures who don’t believe in their own cultures and both see world from a rational rather than a traditional prospective? Maybe two INTJs?

[PortInStorm]

Ah, but you underestimate how much unconscious influence background has. There are a lot of assumptions we bring into relationships that we don't verbalize (obviously), and yet they will be different in cross-cultural relationships.

[Obstinate]

And what is the problem with that? Isn't that what relationships are about, learning about each other and all that? And who says two people of the same ethnicity both come from the same culture? This is probably why some people don't approve of interracial marriages, as they see it like denying your roots and where you came from, but in actuality it's quite the opposite. It's the exchanging of two different cultures into basically a mixing pot of love, to transcend boundaries and to see beyond color. Not to mention very very few of us are of any "pure" race.

[Antares]

in some countries it is an issue. here for instance, the chinese community is strict when it comes to marriage... they let their kids marry their own race otherwise they'll be disowned... that the typical "conservative" chinese. i quote "conservative" because that's what the call themselves. i've been with a chinese guy from a traditional chinese family before and i tell i was not a bed of roses relationship since chinese boys have a strong matriarchal-patriarchal influence and we argue about it most of the time (him being a clan drone).

going back to topic, i don't mind as long as i can adapt well with the culture... and of course he passes my standards.

Wow. Really? That's interesting... None of the people I'm around, or myself for one have that rule. Maybe it's just because I dwell in a liberal and very international society (i'm in an American School).

I don't mind interracial procreation or marriage for that matter. I think prejudice still more or less plays a part in the belief that you should stick to your own. In my opinion, race is really a shallow matter and there's nothing wrong with a mixed child. I would do it if I truly love that individual, and none of the 'clan drones' will ever dissuade me from it. My mother, for one, disapproves, but she's much too traditional for my liking.

People do that with religion as well (sorry for bringing this up)... Marry a or you'll be disowned. Indeed, I find a clashing of faiths problematic. Should the child follow the religion of the mother, the father or none at all?

My mother's Chinese beliefs say that we need to carry on the 'bloodline' (I view this also as superficial and irrelevant) of my father and only a son can do so (I don't get this. We have gender equality now. What's the fuss?). I think this is the reason she disapproves of interracial marriage (she is quite prejudiced in my opinion. She had to rent her house to an Iraqi and was quite distasteful) because even if I carry on my father's family name and name my child that, it wouldn't be 'purely Chinese' anymore. Even if she strongly believes in it, she knows better than to try and change me. It's impossible because I'm much too rebellious and liberal for HER liking, and attempting to do so would only jeopardize our relationship. When she last tried to instill my prejudice against gays, I retorted: "[I]Don't tell me what I should or should not do. It's entirely my choice." Hell. No one tells me what to do if it violates my rights or against my free will. Not my parents, not my government, not tradition. Nothing.

[karen]

Um... If it weren't for interracial relationships I wouldn't be alive...

[TheFreeThinker]

Ah, but you underestimate how much unconscious influence background has. There are a lot of assumptions we bring into relationships that we don't verbalize (obviously), and yet they will be different in cross-cultural relationships.

Sometimes the unconscious influence can be insignificant and marrying someone from a different culture who has same beliefs as you have is much healthier and less challenging than marrying someone from your own culture. This at least has been my experience. I’m not married, but I know that I will not marry someone from my country. I don’t want to say where I’m from but my people and I are from two different planets, they are overly tradition and mostly superstitious and I’m the rational bitch. Though I lived first 14 years of my life in my country, I’m a complete stranger to them. Regardless of country, in general I do not get along with someone who is stick to nonsense beliefs and traditions. I want to marry someone who is open-minded, rational and not a fan of cultures/traditions.

[Merle]

culture and race are very different things...
I'm not sure if someone who is an Arab is considered as white or if it's a separate race... but anyway I went out with an Arabic guy... he was very dark skinned, I guess I would consider us different races, but race wasn't the issue...
The thing that proved problematic for us was culture... and not even his culture but his parent's culture... it wasn't that I was white (although I'm sure that may have come into it), but that I wasn't a Muslim... there was no way for me to be an accepted part of his life... so the relationship became unsustainable...
I think cross-cultural relationships are where difficulties may arise... I don't think race is the issue - obviously a lot of cross-cultural relationships are interracial as-well and I think people get confused about what differences are causing friction.

[PortInStorm]

Yep, culture and race are different things, and it was culture I was referring to- and I could be wrong, but I see culture and ethnicity as the same thing. Obstinate, I think you're confusing my argument about the difficulty of inter-cultural marriages with a dictum against inter-racial marriages. Not the case.

I don't think there's anything [I]wrong[I] with marrying outside your culture, I'm just saying there are more hurdles to overcome in that relationship perhaps than there is in a monoculture. As I tried to allude to, openmindedness does not in any way counteract that initial surprise at clashing assumptions (because assumptions are almost subconcious, and openmindedness is more conscious). And there is nothing wrong with compromising through those clashes, it'll just be more work. Ex. my boss married someone from a different culture, and instead of dealing with just the normal conflicts of married life, they were constantly finding unexpected differences that bogged them down momentarily- what breakfast consists of here vs. there, how to dress appropriately for this culture, etc. etc.

[rwyatt365]

:laugh: rwyatt, what ethnicity are you? Regardless, that post gets two thumbs up!
Afro-American

[Obstinate]

And here I was thinking I was the only Afro-American here...

[rwyatt365]

No way, pard'ner! :thumbsup:

[FreeThinker]

Character is everything. Race is meaningless

[Volition]

Interracial marriage is absolutely fine in my book.

In some ways I can understand why people might be against inter-cultural marriage. There's the impracticality potentially, to start off with. 2nstimestudent said it well. Then there's the aspect where elders might worry about a potential lack of respect for their culture and the impact the 'newcomer' might have on any children. They might be the sort who are highly protective of their traditions and will have treated it as a given that the grandchildren (and so on) will continue the old ways. Someone different may prove an obstacle too big.

Some cultures are too different and the partners in a inter-cultural relationship too loyal to their own to compromise. Relationships could burn up as a result.

Still, I think it's quite sad when communities seem to 'clam up'. Sometimes it is just about mutual understanding and trust. As great as everybody's own cultures may be, isn't it really interesting to be around something different?

[med2006]

As a 40 year old single, never married, African-American woman, perhaps I can shed some light on this subject. I have dated interracially and approve but only if the people involved are doing so for the right reasons. By right reasons, I mean that the people involved are genuinely attracted to the person and not simply attempting to satisfy curiosity/fetish or are running away form something they dislike about members of their own race. I would be extremely offended if I found out that a guy of another race dated me because he wanted “to try black.” As if dating/sleeping with someone is like ordering take-out ..."Hmm What do I feel like tonight? gyro, pizza, stir-fry, soul food?" I know of some White men and women that date African-American people because they are curious about our sexuality. Perhaps because of the highly demeaning way that some of our entertainers allow themselves to be portrayed in hip-hop videos. Unfortunately, the seedier images of blacks in the media are more popular than images of us living a more mainstream lifestyle such what was shown on the “Cosby Show” and “A Different World.” I would never suggest that anyone’s right to free speech and expression be limited. I simply want a balanced and more realistic representation of all races in the media.

I also know of many African-American women; particularly those of us who have attained a certain level of education and hold professional jobs, who choose to date outside of the race because our expectations have been raised and there is a shortage of eligible black men to choose from. Unfortunately, in many major urban areas a large number of the single African-American men have been incarcerated, are engaged in illegal activities (and have not gone to jail yet but who wants to be shot while on a date?), or they are gay, or underemployed. Interestingly, despite all this, African-American women are the least likely to cross the color line romantically. Then there are the African-American men and women who have reached a certain level of economic success who are embarrassed by the stereotypes perpetuated by the media who, in an attempt to distance them selves, only date non-African-Americans.

As I stated previously, I have dated interracially. When I was younger I did so because I tended to have more interests in common with the White and Latino guys I knew than the African-American guys. Unfortunately, because of the schools I attended I did have the opportunity to meet, much less date, Asian guys. I think this is a shame because I read somewhere that African American women and Asian men remain single longer than other groups. I think that my dating interracially was the result of the fact that I was exposed to more of the world and different cultures than many of my African-American peers. To complicate matters, I was considered odd by the kids in my neighborhood because I loved watching PBS, going to museums, attending cultural events of all kinds, and collecting comic books.

So in many ways I feel that culture and life experiences are more important than race. However, as a person of color it is important to me that my partner is able to empathize with me when I experience racism and not tell me that it was just my imagination” or “a simple misunderstanding.” For example, I have had White women notice me walking down the sidewalk near them (dressed professionally mind you) and then clutch their purses for dear life. I have also had cab drivers pass me by to pick up a non-African-American patron when they made eye contact with me as I was clearly trying to hail it in the middle of the day on my way to a meeting. Then there are the cab drivers that demand to be paid before pulling off to take me to my destination. These situations were not figments of my imagination or simple misunderstandings. In my dating experience, African-American, Latin and progressive open-minded White men are able to do this. As I stated previously, I have not dated an Asian man so I am not able to speak about any experiences with Asian guys. Not that I am opposed to the idea – I had a HUGE crush on Bruce Lee as a kid (I admired his talent and vision) and would definately date Russell Wong if her were single.
:thumbsup:

[Tsuru]

Sorry for creating another thread, but I am curious what the INTJs here think about interracial dating and marriages!

I don't think about it. What's the big deal? :o

[rwyatt365]

As a 40 year old single, never married, African-American woman, perhaps I can shed some light on this subject. I have dated interracially and approve but only if the people involved are doing so for the right reasons. By right reasons, I mean that the people involved are genuinely attracted to the person and not simply attempting to satisfy curiosity/fetish or are running away form something they dislike about members of their own race. I would be extremely offended if I found out that a guy of another race dated me because he wanted “to try black.” As if dating/sleeping with someone is like ordering take-out ..."Hmm What do I feel like tonight? gyro, pizza, stir-fry, soul food?" I know of some White men and women that date African-American people because they are curious about our sexuality. Perhaps because of the highly demeaning way that some of our entertainers allow themselves to be portrayed in hip-hop videos. Unfortunately, the seedier images of blacks in the media are more popular than images of us living a more mainstream lifestyle such what was shown on the “Cosby Show” and “A Different World.” I would never suggest that anyone’s right to free speech and expression be limited. I simply want a balanced and more realistic representation of all races in the media.

I also know of many African-American women; particularly those of us who have attained a certain level of education and hold professional jobs, who choose to date outside of the race because our expectations have been raised and there is a shortage of eligible black men to choose from. Unfortunately, in many major urban areas a large number of the single African-American men have been incarcerated, are engaged in illegal activities (and have not gone to jail yet but who wants to be shot while on a date?), or they are gay, or underemployed. Interestingly, despite all this, African-American women are the least likely to cross the color line romantically. Then there are the African-American men and women who have reached a certain level of economic success who are embarrassed by the stereotypes perpetuated by the media who, in an attempt to distance them selves, only date non-African-Americans.

As I stated previously, I have dated interracially. When I was younger I did so because I tended to have more interests in common with the White and Latino guys I knew than the African-American guys. Unfortunately, because of the schools I attended I did have the opportunity to meet, much less date, Asian guys. I think this is a shame because I read somewhere that African American women and Asian men remain single longer than other groups. I think that my dating interracially was the result of the fact that I was exposed to more of the world and different cultures than many of my African-American peers. To complicate matters, I was considered odd by the kids in my neighborhood because I loved watching PBS, going to museums, attending cultural events of all kinds, and collecting comic books.

So in many ways I feel that culture and life experiences are more important than race. However, as a person of color it is important to me that my partner is able to empathize with me when I experience racism and not tell me that it was just my imagination” or “a simple misunderstanding.” For example, I have had White women notice me walking down the sidewalk near them (dressed professionally mind you) and then clutch their purses for dear life. I have also had cab drivers pass me by to pick up a non-African-American patron when they made eye contact with me as I was clearly trying to hail it in the middle of the day on my way to a meeting. Then there are the cab drivers that demand to be paid before pulling off to take me to my destination. These situations were not figments of my imagination or simple misunderstandings. In my dating experience, African-American, Latin and progressive open-minded White men are able to do this. As I stated previously, I have not dated an Asian man so I am not able to speak about any experiences with Asian guys. Not that I am opposed to the idea – I had a HUGE crush on Bruce Lee as a kid (I admired his talent and vision) and would definately date Russell Wong if her were single.
:thumbsup:
Great synopsis!

I started a long posting about interracial dating from the Afro-American male perspective, but then I thought "meh, who cares!"

[Obstinate]

When you're Afro-American, you're loved and feared the most. In general. Being an Afro-American male in a diverse high school (The most is 41% Hispanic, 23% Filipino, 17% African-American, etc), I've experienced racism a few times before. Filipino girls would say they don't want to get with me so they don't ruin the friendship, or we'd be better off friends, only to see them get with some dude who's not even half as good as me, it's just he's the same ethnicity as said girl. Because my friends are mostly Filipino, I get called "white-washed" or "Asian-washed" by those same so-called friends. It's hard when you don't fit in with the set stereotypes associated with being a certain color.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

med2006

Can I ask you a question about racism and sexism??

[med2006]

Sure, ask away.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Sure, ask away.
O.K. Is it just my own limited experience or do black women (african-american in your case), in general, tend to be more motivated or more interested in racism and racial issues, then in sexism?

[spiritdetectivegirl]

in some countries it is an issue. here for instance, the chinese community is strict when it comes to marriage... they let their kids marry their own race otherwise they'll be disowned... that the typical "conservative" chinese. i quote "conservative" because that's what the call themselves. i've been with a chinese guy from a traditional chinese family before and i tell i was not a bed of roses relationship since chinese boys have a strong matriarchal-patriarchal influence and we argue about it most of the time (him being a clan drone).

going back to topic, i don't mind as long as i can adapt well with the culture... and of course he passes my standards.

I could'nt of said it better myself.:thumbsup:





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 2 minutes and 17 seconds later...

Um... If it weren't for interracial relationships I wouldn't be alive...


Me either.





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 24 minutes and 47 seconds later...

O.K. Is it just my own limited experience or do black women (african-american in your case), in general, tend to be more motivated or more interested in racism and racial issues, then in sexism?

Not trying to answer this question for you med2006, but in my experiences that holds true in some extent. My mother is African-american, and when talk of sexism or racial issues can be heard, she generaly gravitates towards the racial issue more times than not.

I'm not sure why this is, perhaps they feel more secure and unchallenged in this aspect of their lives? Because no offense, but the white male in america had been at a time been oppressing to all who were'nt white and male. Think of rome, and you'll see what I mean.


I could get into it but I've had my say, I'd like to look into this more before putting out any other ideas I have.

In fact I had'nt noticed this pattern untill I read your post, though now it seems so obvious.
So this is something I will definitely delve deeper into.

I'll be keeping my eye on this topic in the near future; so interesting!

[med2006]

O.K. Is it just my own limited experience or do black women (african-american in your case), in general, tend to be more motivated or more interested in racism and racial issues, then in sexism?

Your question seems simple on the surface but it is actually a very complicated. Originally, I wrote a much longer response to your question (6 pages double spaced in MS Word). I could post it top another thread but for the sake of brevity I edited it down to the following response. I am in not trying to jack this thread so if anyone wants to start another thread on this topic pleas let me know.

I want to preface my response by stating the following up front:
1. I apologize for the length of my response in advance but thought it necessary in order address the question to the best of my ability which is why it has taken me so long to post my reply.

2. I am only speaking for myself. I am sure that there are many African-American women; particularly the younger ones, that do not share my views.

3. Please do not interpret what I have written as me throwing a “pity party” for Black women. As a matter of fact, as I write this I marvel at the resilience that my “sisters” had and still have.

4. I fully understand and respect the fact that women all over the world have had to overcome many challenges. I only hope that one day all people can openly discuss all aspects of world history and contemporary issues in order to understand each other better.

My short answer is that for me is that historically there has been a disconnect between the issues that are important to me a as a Black woman and the issues that have historically been important to Western Feminists (i.e. White middle class women) such as pay equity, maternity leave, access to education, and violence against women. In my opinion, focusing on these issues made it seem that Western Feminists were saying give us the opportunity to prove that we are as good as men whereas the issues for African American women were more related to us gaining human and civil rights (i.e. desegregation, fair housing for our families, voting rights for African Americans, etc.)

Additionally, for me, I cannot speak for all African-American women, but racism is the larger issue because in my experiences with discrimination, my race seemed to the factor that inspired the discriminatory behavior of others. In the cases that I mentioned in my previous post of the elderly White women and in a few cases elderly Latinas that clutch their purses when they see me or that cab drivers that pass me by it is because I am Black not because I am also a woman.

Also there are many historical reasons connected to slavery and the treatment of African-American women in the United States that have influenced my position on the issue. Sojourner Truth (a former slave) was an early feminist and the following quote from her speech “Ain’t I a woman?” illustrates my feelings on the issue.

“That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain't I a woman? Look at me! Look at my arm! I have ploughed and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And ain't I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man - when I could get it - and bear the lash as well! And ain't I a woman? I have borne thirteen children, and seen most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me! And ain't I a woman?”

Unfortunately, as a result of our race and gender African-American women were and in many ways still are considered less deserving equal protections under the law and in the media. To illustrate my point, two years after the disappearance of Natallee Holloway her case is getting prime time news coverage on major TV networks. When was the last time we saw a story about the disappearance of an African-American women receive even a month’s worth of on a major national network? I am not begrudging Ms. Holloway’s mother or any other missing person’s family their right to pursue the case but merely illustrating a point. If feminist organizations are truly concerned about violence against women then this should be an issue that they throw some energy and resources behind.

Additionally, in many ways Affirmative Action laws that came about in the latter part of 20th Century have; unfortunately, pitted members of various minority groups against each other. There is the perception (true or not) that middle class White women have benefited most from Affirmative Action programs. This perception does not help feminist organizations that say they want to be more inclusive of women of other races and classes yet do little to genuinely reach out to African-American women. I worked for a women’s rights organization and they did precious little to garner support form African-American women. However, quite a bit of resources and energy was expended for immigrant women’s rights. Not a good way to be inclusive in my opinion. Perhaps if feminist organizations were more vocal regarding the fact that the disappearances of African-American women were deserving of more media coverage and investigation by police then I might change my mind.

So why would I support a cause that does not value my participation?

[OneBadMother]

Hehe, what's considered "race" anyways? I'm technically half-and-half, but it doesn't "count" because azns get lumped together. "Race" is a ridiculously arbitrary social concept. The one drop thing especially.

[Obstinate]

"Race" is essentially an idiotic concept that has kept the world busy since the beginning of time.

[Mountain Lion]

"Race" is essentially an idiotic concept that has kept the world busy since the beginning of time.

I appreciate the expressed sentiments, but they are based on incorrect assumptions. Race as a concept is only about 3 or 4 centuries old, conceived and employed by capitalist interests at the time of "New World" exploration by European states to justify slave labour and calim superiority of European civilization. They also used to it to stratify the labour class (majority of the world population) in order to prevent their united resistance.

If you disagree with the above statement, please consider the following analysis (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

[American Quest 1983]

I do not see the big issue with interracial marriages or dating. Even if I do not participate in interracial affairs, it is none of my business if someone else does.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

med2006 and spiritdetectivegirl

I understand everything you have said and appreciate the time and thoroughness of your response. I will start another thread so as not to highjack this one and entitle it racism vs. sexism. I'll definately have more questions for you guys.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 2 minutes and 39 seconds later...

Hehe, what's considered "race" anyways? I'm technically half-and-half, but it doesn't "count" because azns get lumped together. "Race" is a ridiculously arbitrary social concept. The one drop thing especially.
Race is definately a social and arbitrary concept. My niece is tri-racial. She identifies as black of course because society gives her no options.

[James Revell]

I appreciate the expressed sentiments, but they are based on incorrect assumptions. Race as a concept is a only about 4 or 5 centuries old, conceived and employed by capitalist interests at the time of "New World" exploration by European states to justify slave labour and calim superiority of European civilization. They also used to it to stratify the labour class (majority of the world population) in order to prevent their united resistance.

If you disagree with the above statement, please consider the following analysis (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

Oh come on, enslaving people of different race/ethinicity to decrease labor expense was around long before Europeans came to the New World. I may view the bible as allegory, but egyptians were enslaving jews for almost the same reasons. They were different -- enough.

The further back in time you go the more provincial the populace becomes, along with a corresponding increases in discrimination and prejudice. "Race" as a term may not be that old but the concept was there thousands of years ago.

[Mr Galt]

There is nothing wrong with interracial marriage. If I found the right woman and she happened to be of a different race/culture/etc than myself, I would not hesitate. However, we all tend to be attracted to people of our own race. It is probably mostly a cultural thing. Every race tends to have its own unique culture, and the people have more in common.

My vote went to "I approve and would participate in one".

[lancelot]

Marry the person who makes you happy. If you are happy and you know it clap your hands,...





lancelot added to this post, 2 minutes and 2 seconds later...

I married a vulcan.
Just kidding I am single and waiting to become perfect.