What does "In Love" mean Anyway?!

[Learning]

I've never "fallen in love" easily. Even as a teenager, it took more than just physical attraction... it was always something that grew over time (years). (Somewhat scary/sad is that sometimes I'm not even sure I know what "in love" really means!...please feel free to elaborate if you have any ideas here!)
I agree that there can be "something" there in the beginnig...more like chemistry?
I can honestly say I've met someone before and pretty early on I just knew they were going to be special... it's wierd, but almost as if I could "see" it.
I've heard people share that love is definitely not just a feeling, but a committment. But what does "in love" mean then? This really does get confusing especially with what the media says vs. real life.
Another great description I've heard is that in a marriage you actually "fall in & out of love" with the person more than once, but stay committed for the long haul & build something great (i.e.-family) even through the ups & downs.
So, what do you think being "in love" means? Have you ever had an experience where you just knew you just shook hands with someone special (even if it was about the fifth time you met them)?

[Paul V]

I have a saying that helps me identify whether someone is in love or actually loves.

"Falling in love is loving what you two have in common. Loving is falling in love with the differences."

[JTG]

Love to me is caring about somebody else's happiness to the point you'd sacrifice your own for them. It's just a pure and selfless emotion in my opinion.

Some people say "i love you" as a possessive thing, or to look for validation by getting somebody else to say it back. That's pretty ridiculous imo. I'd feel empty and lame if i did that. In fact, every time i tell somebody the L word for the first time, i have to go into this speech i have about what the word means when i say it, and that they shouldn't freak out or assume feelings on my part.

Being "in love" is a more complicated thing for me... i don't have much experience with it, but to me it's more of an excited feeling. I guess it's a mixture of affection and infatuation.

[blueeyedsusan]

Love is a decision. Love starts as an emotional response (lust) to perpetuate the species and enhance your offspring's genetics. If you are smart you will also have compatibility and friendship in any long term relationship. If you do not have that, it is not "real" love. When the initial lust is worn off, love is an action, emotions are not always true and based on fact. You decide to love someone irregardless of your "feelings." The relationship must be based on mutual respect. Love, emotions, physicality must be worked on and built, therefore it is of paramount importance that both parties be compatible. It is easier if you both speak the same language so to speak and make allowances for differences. Dirty socks on the floor is not a big deal, battering and cheating are. Pick your fights carefully and live in peace. Buy sex toys and play in private.

[PortInStorm]

JTG, you say "I love you" and then tell them not to assume any feelings on your part? Just wondering....

[JTG]

There is a lot of other "stuff" that people are often trying to express when they say they love somebody. The first couple of times i told somebody i loved them, they got kinda freaked out because they took it differently than i had meant it. Some people say it because they need love in return, or because they are trying to make some intimation at wanting a relationship. The speech i give is to let people know that my love is a simpler, no strings attached kind of emotion.

To me, if i tell somebody i love them, it just means i care a lot about them, to the point that i would give willingly of my time or efforts to help make them happy. It doesn't mean i expect them to change the way they behave, treat me a certain way, or give me anything particular in return.

[TDK442]

I personally dont think I ever have the ability to fall "in love" with someone. I was in a four year relationship and loved my girl very-VERY much, but it had to build over time.

She was, by the way, an off the charts ESFP... and I am an off the charts INTJ...

if you want to see what "in love" is, then watch an ESFP when they first get into a relationship... their eyes and skin shine and you can see that they become almost obsessed with the object of their desire... that of course fades... and no longer are you "in love" but you just love each other...

well, I dont have the ability to fall head over heels "in love," and that puts me, and other INTJ's in a position of GREAT POWER. When someone falls for you that hard, and it is not mutual, then you automatically become incredibly powerful... not really a good or healthy thing

But I have often thought that this will be a recurring theme in my life, because, despite the fact that I will be enamored by the sex with a new partner, there is certainly no "in love." My love builds over a long time, where as the SF's in particular, I think, have the ability to just completely fall head over heels...

just thinking aloud on this one, but have thought about this issue many-many times

[Uytuun]

I'm capable of falling in love, falling for someone. And when I do, I fall hard and certainly no longer am in a position of great power. In fact, the ESFP behaviour you describe is not unknown to me. Granted, it's a rare occurence, but it's not impossible in my opinion.

If you're asking about the meaning of "in love", well, that's a tricky one. To me, it's about a spark, a tension that includes, but also goes beyond physical attraction. I think that when the spark/tension becomes a true bond, you go from "in love" to "love". In my opinion "love" is the really difficult one.

[the natural]

if you want to see what "in love" is, then watch an ESFP when they first get into a relationship... their eyes and skin shine and you can see that they become almost obsessed with the object of their desire... that of course fades... and no longer are you "in love" but you just love each other...

The problem with being INTJ is our extraverted sensing is so weak, by far the weakest of all our abilities, it's so hard to read expressions and visual cues. I might interpret that expression as either romantic attraction, physical lust without romance, someone trying to convey one of those emotions without actually feeling it, or even physical illness.

Falling in love is hard for an INTJ because our standards for friends are already so high, of course they will be unbelievably high for a romantic partner. A better way to think about it, and one that is more productive toward a relationship, is not to evaluate a romantic mate based on your own standards (intelligence, competence, ability to reason well and solve problems, whatever they may be) and think about how they can fill in your blanks, in effect how you balance each other's equations and strengthen each others weaknesses. That's why opposites attract, they fill in each other's blanks.

[DeadSpace]

That you can talk without words. Feel comfort in their presence. Knowing you can drop the bindings on your mind and heart...and doing so is no effort. Feels as natural as breathing. That you can sit with them, no TV, no music...just maybe quietly talking, or not and that it feels perfect. Timeless
Knowing that you would hold them when they feel broken, and would heal them in any way possible.
heh, sappy kinda...but it is how i've looked at it. That everything that happens feels natural. Acceptance and trust of another in your life...to the point where you're defenseless. And it doesn't bother you.
There is no true definition, and don't think there can be. Each person feels differently. It is one damn hard emotion to describe. Trusting someone with your heart though...and not fearing what might happen...good indicator.
If you feel you have to hold back...might want to take some time and rethink why you think you love them. Or why you feel you have to stay distanced.

[PortInStorm]

There is a lot of other "stuff" that people are often trying to express when they say they love somebody. The first couple of times i told somebody i loved them, they got kinda freaked out because they took it differently than i had meant it. Some people say it because they need love in return, or because they are trying to make some intimation at wanting a relationship. The speech i give is to let people know that my love is a simpler, no strings attached kind of emotion.

To me, if i tell somebody i love them, it just means i care a lot about them, to the point that i would give willingly of my time or efforts to help make them happy. It doesn't mean i expect them to change the way they behave, treat me a certain way, or give me anything particular in return.
Yep, that makes sense.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

I have a saying that helps me identify whether someone is in love or actually loves.

"Falling in love is loving what you two have in common. Loving is falling in love with the differences."

Ah, then I guess I never was in love with my ex. That makes me happy. XD

[Antares]

I've been trying to figure that out for ages, but it always confuses me, so I stopped caring. The last time when I was in love, a smile from him would send me from the Earth to the moon. When we were apart I would wonder how he was doing and when he was sick or hurt, I would be quite worried. I used to have the notion that if he ever reciprocated my feelings, it'd be like I died and went to heaven because his embrace is the only place I'd ever want to be in. It takes ages for me to choose the right person to fall in love with and even longer to get over him.

[PortInStorm]

I've been trying to figure that out for ages, but it always confuses me, so I stopped caring. The last time when I was in love, a smile from him would send me from the Earth to the moon. When we were apart I would wonder how he was doing and when he was sick or hurt, I would be quite worried. I used to have the notion that if he ever reciprocated my feelings, it'd be like I died and went to heaven because his embrace is the only place I'd ever want to be in. It takes ages for me to choose the right person to fall in love with and even longer to get over him.
That's almost exactly how I feel. I used to wonder why on earth I was being so paranoid about him being OK when I wasn't there- it's not like I could "protect" him from being in a car accident etc. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

When those things like the embrace finally happened, I actually cried. Maybe because it finally came true, not sure. But that's not usual with me in romantic situations.

[Antares]

Yes. The sudden, unexplained protectiveness and the sense of wonder what I am doing so wrong that he wouldn't even notice me, and the sadness and despair that comes with it.

[PortInStorm]

The hated part about "in love" is the power they have over your emotions. You usually feel strong and independent, and here's this person who manipulates those 'homey' comfortable feelings of solidness and strength, making you wonder about yourself, your capabilities in the romantic arena, making you actually miss someone (*gasp*, needing another human to be happy?).

But it's like crack (I've heard :-)), you do it for the high- when it comes.

[Uytuun]

Yes, my dad once said it's a mixture of cocaine and insanity.

And ditto about the power and wondering and doubting and stuff.

[JTG]

The hated part about "in love" is the power they have over your emotions. You usually feel strong and independent, and here's this person who manipulates those 'homey' comfortable feelings of solidness and strength, making you wonder about yourself, your capabilities in the romantic arena, making you actually miss someone (*gasp*, needing another human to be happy?).

Yeah... that's the darker side of things :( Sadly it's all too true. I hate feeling that way toward somebody when my rational mind is screaming at me to just move on. However, when emotions and logic are in agreement, that's when things are really great.

[pavman]

Love is a decision. Love starts as an emotional response (lust) to perpetuate the species and enhance your offspring's genetics....

I disagree to an extent. The difference between lust and love is that love is selfless act of the will, coupled with a feeling of indescribable greatness, and lust is an almost animalistic feeling (at least from my experience) which tells me to copulate with the person, even if I have no attraction what-so-ever to the person, other than to get my ... juiced. Perhaps I'm just more "in-touch" with the ability to identify the subtle, yet profound, difference.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of this "emotions bad, act of the will good" running around; however, I disagree.

I think emotions are a critical part of our psyche and, if properly utilized and harmonized, can result in the greatest possible act of one person for another: putting the other before oneself. And if this is reciprocated properly, then the relationship can not only lift both partners to new heights, but it can also effect change outside of the relationship as it spills over to other aspects of the beloveds' lives.

Of course, I'm currently single ;) [by my own choice]

[Learning]

Such great food for thought. This is just one of those hard questions... I would think especially for an NT. Sometimes I wish I was driven more by "F". :scared:
I'll post more later... this is just a lot to digest all at once.

[blueeyedsusan]

I decide every day to love my husband, even though, he pees on the floor sometimes and he snores. Those things irritate me, I am sure I irritate him but little thing should be overlooked for the greater good of our marriage. That is maturity. My husband is a good man and we compliment each other, most times it is not an effort to be understood (if he is listening and football is not on TV) I listen to him, we have a balanced relationship. No-one keeps score and we are not competitive with each other. The point is, emotions can be internal and not based on fact. You have to analyze, do I not like this person today because life is irritating me and I am more sensitive or is this person not compatible with me and are we not meeting each others needs. Relationships should make us better people and a relationship should not be painful and damaging to your own self, if it is, then you need to end that relationship. A relationship should be good for you, make you a more balanced and fulfilled person. Attraction IS biological. Attraction is a first step. I think it is extremely important not to have sex before you really get to know that person and see if you are compatible. Sex messes with your brain chemistry, you get all those prolactin and endorphins going and think you are in love and everything will work out even though you might not be compatible. Lust still happens long term in marriage it's just not like a bunny mating and you have to work on it and it IS important, it brings people close again. I decide every day to love my husband, love is an action.

If we didn't have a biological need for sex there would be no pair bonding. So in closing, attraction is important but has to be seen for what it is, a biological need. We as humans don't have just a primitive animal brain, we have higher brain function. We need to use that higher level brain function before we enter into any long term relationship if we want a more fulfilled life.

Do we share the same belief structure on everyday matters whether is be religion or money? (and all those other issues that don't seem to matter when you are in initial lust) Is it fairly easy to communicate? Is there mutual respect? Can he or she make me smile? Do we support each other emotionally?

Watch that person, how does he or she treat other people. Are there power and control issues? Does that person try to change me? You have to make sure you are mature enough to give all those things you want back as well, but it is a balance. Trust your "gut"

My husband and I have rules. No going "out" as in parties with alcohol without the other and like Billy Graham my husband is not going to be alone with a woman other than me. Temptation happens. We promised to always be honest with each other and that is the one thing that would make us break up, if he lied. Take into account he is not abusive. No-one should ever be in an abusive relationship.

Love is pair bonding.

[PortInStorm]

Not that I'm discounting everything else you said, but.... he pees on the floor??

[Colette]

I decide every day to love my husband, even though, he pees on the floor sometimes and he snores. Those things irritate me, I am sure I irritate him but little thing should be overlooked for the greater good of our marriage. That is maturity. My husband is a good man and we compliment each other, most times it is not an effort to be understood (if he is listening and football is not on TV) I listen to him, we have a balanced relationship. No-one keeps score and we are not competitive with each other. The point is, emotions can be internal and not based on fact. You have to analyze, do I not like this person today because life is irritating me and I am more sensitive or is this person not compatible with me and are we not meeting each others needs. Relationships should make us better people and a relationship should not be painful and damaging to your own self, if it is, then you need to end that relationship. A relationship should be good for you, make you a more balanced and fulfilled person. Attraction IS biological. Attraction is a first step. I think it is extremely important not to have sex before you really get to know that person and see if you are compatible. Sex messes with your brain chemistry, you get all those prolactin and endorphins going and think you are in love and everything will work out even though you might not be compatible. Lust still happens long term in marriage it's just not like a bunny mating and you have to work on it and it IS important, it brings people close again. I decide every day to love my husband, love is an action.

If we didn't have a biological need for sex there would be no pair bonding. So in closing, attraction is important but has to be seen for what it is, a biological need. We as humans don't have just a primitive animal brain, we have higher brain function. We need to use that higher level brain function before we enter into any long term relationship if we want a more fulfilled life.

Do we share the same belief structure on everyday matters whether is be religion or money? (and all those other issues that don't seem to matter when you are in initial lust) Is it fairly easy to communicate? Is there mutual respect? Can he or she make me smile? Do we support each other emotionally?

Watch that person, how does he or she treat other people. Are there power and control issues? Does that person try to change me? You have to make sure you are mature enough to give all those things you want back as well, but it is a balance. Trust your "gut"

My husband and I have rules. No going "out" as in parties with alcohol without the other and like Billy Graham my husband is not going to be alone with a woman other than me. Temptation happens. We promised to always be honest with each other and that is the one thing that would make us break up, if he lied. Take into account he is not abusive. No-one should ever be in an abusive relationship.

Love is pair bonding.

I'm picking you're a fundie Christian. Your husband's not allowed to be alone with another woman? Like what - you don't trust him, or do you simply think that men are such weak and pathetic creatures they can't control themselves around other women?

Anyway FWIW (or not worth as the case may be) I disagree with almost everything you posted about the nature of love...it sounds as if you regard it as a duty, or chore, that must be endured for the 'greater good'.

[JTG]

Sometimes love means loving somebody even if you don't really love them. I've found that security and belonging can be more important to me sometimes than even emotional fulfillment, for what that's worth. If somebody has found a place they belong, and have been in a relationship a long time, it may not be worth the hurt it will cause people (children especially) to split up. It just sounds to me that blueeyedsusan is a strong T if nothing else.

And peeing on the floor happens. Guy stumbles into the bathroom late at night, misses the light switch and is too foggy with sleep to notice. It's not often, but chances of it happening increase the more frequently he has to get up at night, i.e. as the man gets older. (i know... the peeing on the floor thing was probably sarcasm, just figured i'd have a little fun with it)

[yeh1705]

I think love has many manifestations pending on the person's personality and experience.

To me, there are different levels or types of love we show the significant people in our lives. These are just my personal views on it, and not a scientific report..=)

A) Puppy Love - When you first experience love, you're not quite sure what you're experiencing, but you know you want to be with this person, and not lose this person, this person is like your ideal person, and no one on this earth is better than this person. "You're the bomb baby!"

B) Friendship Love - Close friends all love each other in one sense, they care for them. How many times have you gone out of your way for a friend just to see a smile on their face? How many of us have given up something to do or give something to another friend? "Lets go do this", "nah I wanna do this", "ok sure.."

C) Burning Love - You can't contain the passion for each other, it's like the Puppy is on fire! Whenever you 2 are in public, everyone yells "get a room!". Although the spark is a burning flame, it's usually because the differences of the couple hasn't surfaced yet. Enjoy it while it lasts.

D) Unconditional Love - You love this person so much that you're able to forgive them (over time) for anything they've done. They could steal from you, they can backstab you, they can call you names, but you still love them the same. Such love is usually shown by parents, and dare I say God? Needless to say, very few of us are capable of showing this type of love to everyone, but to some very special people in our lives we can. "Why are you helping me when no one else will?" "Because I love you.."

E) Controlling Love - Ok, this is what I call obsessive/possessive love. You feel you love this person, but you can't seem to stand anything they do that's of their own will, it's called the Polyamory complex, when you hammer someone into being who you want them to be. This usually happens when a couple is in a long term relationship and they or 1 of them stops seeing the other person as an individual, and instead sees him/her as an extention of themselves. "Why the hell are you doing that?"

F) True Love - This is the love everyone dreams of, the love where when you look at your partner, you see no flaws, you love every single thing about them. While their quirks are quirks to other people, they're idiosyncrasies of their personality to you. You possess traits of all the love listed above, afterall, even the most loving couples squabble from time to time, they just don't argue. You do feel like you'd die without them, you do want to do everything for them, you will tell them when they're out of line.
"I feel like to know you, will take the rest of my life to learn."

The reason I put quotes at the end of each definition is because I've experienced each one at some point in life, and they were the phrases that have come out of my mouth. Again, this is purely an editorial.

[JTG]

Wow that makes all of our descriptions seem flat by comparison XD

For me it's either infatuation or a more unconditional type love. I've felt all those variations i think, they just all seem similar when it boils down to the question of temporary vs lasting emotions. Leave it to an NF to understand and explain such a wide spectrum of the same emotion, hehe

[spiritdetectivegirl]

I've been trying to figure that out for ages, but it always confuses me, so I stopped caring. The last time when I was in love, a smile from him would send me from the Earth to the moon. When we were apart I would wonder how he was doing and when he was sick or hurt, I would be quite worried. I used to have the notion that if he ever reciprocated my feelings, it'd be like I died and went to heaven because his embrace is the only place I'd ever want to be in. It takes ages for me to choose the right person to fall in love with and even longer to get over him.


Wow, the most of what you all said here fits me to a 'T'. I just hate ever I admitting was ever in love, I hate the weakness that came/comes with it and I would worry excessively over that person, and want to protect them from any and everything. I would rather keep my emotions under the radar and stay independent, like a icon I once read; "I'm cold and calculating, I like me that way." And it does take me a long while to fall in ,and out of love with a person.

I just loath feeling weak, and being in love includes this feeling. Bummer. -.- But I do enjoy being single, and for now I think I was meant to be alone, and I like that prospect.

[blueeyedsusan]

I'm picking you're a fundie Christian. Your husband's not allowed to be alone with another woman? Like what - you don't trust him, or do you simply think that men are such weak and pathetic creatures they can't control themselves around other women?

Anyway FWIW (or not worth as the case may be) I disagree with almost everything you posted about the nature of love...it sounds as if you regard it as a duty, or chore, that must be endured for the 'greater good'.

It's a fact of life that infidelity can (and does) happen, my point is if you value the relationship avoid temptation. Plain and simple. You sound very naive.





blueeyedsusan added to this post, 11 minutes and 59 seconds later...

The reason I put quotes at the end of each definition is because I've experienced each one at some point in life, and they were the phrases that have come out of my mouth. Again, this is purely an editorial.

Great descriptions. I have been in a controlling relationship, a burning love relationship and a true love one, that's my current relationship I see flaws but I don't concentrate on them. I value this relationship. I don't believe in perfection and I am logical. BTW I am never alone with a male other than my husband and I don't go to bars without my husband. Why would I even want to go out without him anyway? My husband is my best friend and we enjoy each others company.I just think those are logical rules to follow. S*it happens and why tempt it, especially when you "under the influence" whether it be under the influence of lust or alcohol? We also each respect each other differences and are not joined at the hip. We give each other alone time for our varied interests.





blueeyedsusan added to this post, 7 minutes and 8 seconds later...

Men pee on the floor, trust me. I have two sons and a husband. It's a "yuck" thing for me I complain occasionally and it does no good. Hubby wanders into the bathroom, in the dark with eyes closed and stands there half asleep at the toilet and the next morning I step in it. I wipe it up and go on. Actually when I visualize it, with him standing there eyes closed, holding it and swaying because he is not awake I think it's pretty funny. Thank God I'm a woman and can feel superior to that.

[muguly]

To me, falling in love was an eye opening experience. For a long time I didn't think I was capable of love. Then I fell in love with a girl who eventually broke my heart.Though it hurt it taught me a lesson:true love is a beautiful, precious thing. It is unconditional and never judging. It makes every wall you've ever put up come down. True love is rare, but when you find it, you know. I spent years trying to understand love and one day, while sitting on a roof, it came to me. Love is the one true goal in life. All aspirations, all hope and dreams eventually evolve around the concept of love. It's hard to explain, but if you understand and except the notion that love is life, you'll get it. So, falling in love is letting go of all reservations and allowing yourself to let someone show you love while you show them the same. It is knowing that the person you're with will treat you the same, respect you the same, love you the same, no matter what.

[Mountain Lion]

Love is trust and commitment. Everything else that comes with that level of intimacy is a perk ;)

[Colette]

It's a fact of life that infidelity can (and does) happen, my point is if you value the relationship avoid temptation. Plain and simple. You sound very naive.


I'm not naive at all blueeyedsusan. I've had a large number of relationships, with a wide variety of people, and have also been married. However I certainly do not believe (and have seen no evidence to suggest) that infidelity is a necessary risk, or consequence, of a long-term relationship, even where both partners allow each other the freedom to befriend, and spend time in the company of, other people of the opposite sex.

Where two people genuinely love and trust each other, and are committed to each other and to the concept of the relationship, there is no need whatever for infidelity. I've been in relationships as good as this (as well as ones where cheating has occurred, due to a couple of vital ingredients being missing), so I know on a very personal level what I am talking about.

[JTG]

Cheating happens, and if somebody's going to cheat, it doesn't matter if they're "allowed" to have friends of a certain gender. I think it's natural to think that a lack of certain friends can help prevent certain behavior. People who hang around druggies usually end up experimenting, and possibly becoming addicted themselves. I wouldn't say that having female friends makes a guy cheat though, unless they're sluts who spend all their time trying to get in his pants. Even then, a faithful guy would tell them off and avoid them, much like a person with good sense knows not to get mixed up with drug addicts.

IMO cheating is caused by a lack of connection in a relationship. If a guy automatically cheats just because he has female friends, then he must be very bored and/or unfulfilled in his relationship. Sadly, love doesn't factor into that too much. I've seen some people really hurt loved ones before because of cheating. Interestingly enough, being "in love" seems to be a good preventer of cheating, although not foolproof.

[Paul V]

Cheating happens, and if somebody's going to cheat, it doesn't matter if they're "allowed" to have friends of a certain gender. I think it's natural to think that a lack of certain friends can help prevent certain behavior. People who hang around druggies usually end up experimenting, and possibly becoming addicted themselves. I wouldn't say that having female friends makes a guy cheat though, unless they're sluts who spend all their time trying to get in his pants. Even then, a faithful guy would tell them off and avoid them, much like a person with good sense knows not to get mixed up with drug addicts.

IMO cheating is caused by a lack of connection in a relationship. If a guy automatically cheats just because he has female friends, then he must be very bored and/or unfulfilled in his relationship. Sadly, love doesn't factor into that too much. I've seen some people really hurt loved ones before because of cheating. Interestingly enough, being "in love" seems to be a good preventer of cheating, although not foolproof.

You fail to account for insecurities, feelings of the moment, lack of willpower and mental conditions.

What you claim only works for rational and practical people. Half the world works differently.

[pavman]

...Your husband's not allowed to be alone with another woman? Like what - you don't trust him, or do you simply think that men are such weak and pathetic creatures they can't control themselves around other women?...

I've thought about this, and yes temptation exists with the opposite sex. People are weak. On the flipside, if you observe a rule about never being alone with the opposite sex, then everything seems to flow a little bit easier... in other words, there's more of a sense of trust because you both agree to the rule.

Cheaters cheat because of various reasons; not only men cheat, mind you. In fact, women cheat emotionally and men cheat physically, which is why fostering a solid relationship in our internet dating age is the key to not having to worry about your spouse choosing to cheat. Hence why I'm reading some "how-to" books on ensuring that my relationships/marriage will end up being full of emotional as well as intellectual, physical, and spiritual fulfillment.

If you and I are satisfied, there will be no reason to go looking in other pastures.

...I hate the weakness that came/comes with it and I would worry excessively over that person...I just loath feeling weak, and being in love includes this feeling.

I think this is an INTJ thing. I don't like how going out of my way to pursue someone makes me think I'm weak, but I get over it so that I can show them my interest. Otherwise I would just be single my whole life....

...I would rather keep my emotions under the radar and stay independent, like a[n] icon I once read; "I'm cold and calculating, I like me that way." And it does take me a long while to fall in ,and out of love with a person. ...

Yeah cold and calculating women are really annoying...especially if they're unsure of things. I usually tend to give up after about a month of pursuit if the woman is too cold. I tend to think women should be warmer and more open to communication than men, but from what I've seen with these types...I mean, if they're not open to you about it, then why bother?

You fail to account for insecurities, feelings of the moment, lack of willpower and mental conditions.

What you claim only works for rational and practical people. Half the world works differently.

I agree with this. Although I don't believe many, if any, girlfriends cheated on me, I still had insecurities in the relationship that made me think they were cheating on me. After examining the evidence and weighing the facts, I think that moving two quickly into sexuality caused me to become more insecure about the situation because I saw them as too easily manipulated into it, rather than seeing them as giving me what most women think men want/need in a relationship: sex.

Unfortunately, sex is fun, but by no means will that keep a healthy man, and its best to table that on the back-burner until both parties have solidified both their commitment and grown closer in other areas. In my experience, sex muddies the water and makes it much more difficult to see the partner's obvious flaws. Fortunately, my Ego eventually catches up and tells my Id where to stuff it.

pavman added to this post, 4 minutes and 48 seconds later...

...I spent years trying to understand love and one day, while sitting on a roof, it came to me. Love is the one true goal in life. All aspirations, all hope and dreams eventually evolve around the concept of love.

Wow, think the religion thread is down the hall, oh wise and powerful master.

[muguly]

Not a religious experience, more like an awakening of what I choose to call my reality.

[Antares]

Wow, the most of what you all said here fits me to a 'T'. I just hate ever I admitting was ever in love, I hate the weakness that came/comes with it and I would worry excessively over that person, and want to protect them from any and everything. I would rather keep my emotions under the radar and stay independent, like a icon I once read; "I'm cold and calculating, I like me that way." And it does take me a long while to fall in ,and out of love with a person.

I just loath feeling weak, and being in love includes this feeling. Bummer. -.- But I do enjoy being single, and for now I think I was meant to be alone, and I like that prospect.

Totally. One moment I'm perfectly strong, rational and objective, the next minute, I'm as lovey-dovey as one could get. I hate it when this one guy can mess around with the wiring of your brain where an army of ten thousand ferocious ninjas would fail at. I kept mentally screaming at myself: How can you let him do this to you? But no, my subconcious mind insists that I fall for him, let him affect me and take away all the qualities that I held dear.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Love to me is caring about somebody else's happiness to the point you'd sacrifice your own for them. It's just a pure and selfless emotion in my opinion.

Some people say "i love you" as a possessive thing, or to look for validation by getting somebody else to say it back. That's pretty ridiculous imo. I'd feel empty and lame if i did that. In fact, every time i tell somebody the L word for the first time, i have to go into this speech i have about what the word means when i say it, and that they shouldn't freak out or assume feelings on my part.

Being "in love" is a more complicated thing for me... i don't have much experience with it, but to me it's more of an excited feeling. I guess it's a mixture of affection and infatuation.
This is really well put (for me anyway).

[Llen]

Love means: "I truly care for you, and want to be with you, despite our differences and your annoying habits."

Marriage means: "I believe I can put up with our differences and your annoying habits for the rest of my life. Let's put that theory to the test."

[blueeyedsusan]

Cheating happens, and if somebody's going to cheat, it doesn't matter if they're "allowed" to have friends of a certain gender. I think it's natural to think that a lack of certain friends can help prevent certain behavior. People who hang around druggies usually end up experimenting, and possibly becoming addicted themselves. I wouldn't say that having female friends makes a guy cheat though, unless they're sluts who spend all their time trying to get in his pants. Even then, a faithful guy would tell them off and avoid them, much like a person with good sense knows not to get mixed up with drug addicts.

IMO cheating is caused by a lack of connection in a relationship. If a guy automatically cheats just because he has female friends, then he must be very bored and/or unfulfilled in his relationship. Sadly, love doesn't factor into that too much. I've seen some people really hurt loved ones before because of cheating. Interestingly enough, being "in love" seems to be a good preventer of cheating, although not foolproof.

Who said anything about "allowing" someone to have friends? It's mutual respect. My husband has friends of both sexes, and so do I. We don't spend time alone with people of the opposite sex. My husband hugs his female friends in front of me and I hug my male friends in front of him, nothing is hidden.
We both take into account that we are both human. We made rules to protect our relationship. Our relationship comes first. We have both been married and we are both mature enough to accept reality.
We can find ourselves tempted, it happens, we agreed to discuss it should we find that happening with another person, we also decided we would not be alone with people of the opposite sex, 1 it's disrespectful to our partner 2 it can be a temptation.
We also don't go into a bar without our partner. That one is obvious but I'll spell it out anyway. Alcohol makes your inhibitions go away and since we enjoy each others company, we want to go out with each other. I wouldn't hurt my husband/lover/best friend like that, and the feeling is mutual.





blueeyedsusan added to this post, 7 minutes and 26 seconds later...

Totally. One moment I'm perfectly strong, rational and objective, the next minute, I'm as lovey-dovey as one could get. I hate it when this one guy can mess around with the wiring of your brain where an army of ten thousand ferocious ninjas would fail at. I kept mentally screaming at myself: How can you let him do this to you? But no, my subconcious mind insists that I fall for him, let him affect me and take away all the qualities that I held dear.
Love should never hurt, or make you feel weak, been there done that. Real love makes you feel good. A person who really loves you wants the best for you.
It's not perfection, it just feels good.
I want to say I'm lucky or I finally earned it and I am afraid it will go away. I've been very, very hurt in the past. My husband now is a good person to live with, good for me. It's been 9 years we have been together. I lived 20 years in a horrible marriage before that. I think I earned this relationship and in a way it's better to have it now because I appreciate the peace I have.

[PortInStorm]

I think there is some virtue in that- I agree that temptation happens anywhere, anytime. There is a caveat that Billy Graham made that rule (about never being alone with the opposite sex) because people tried to sabotage him ie. putting a hooker in his hotel room and snapping a picture of him in the same room as her as soon as he came in alone.

And I've heard the whole thing about telling you're partner if you're feeling temped. It's an amazing idea, but I absolutely think that's a crock- it's totally counterintuitive to invite someone to take away your dessert, so to speak. Does an overweight person ever go up to a person with cake in his hand and say "I really want to eat this, take it away"? They probably avoid the temptation all together, and that's what you're trying to do. Kudos. As well, most of us think we're strong enough to fight it off, and we're afraid of our spouse's response.

[blueeyedsusan]

I think there is some virtue in that- I agree that temptation happens anywhere, anytime. There is a caveat that Billy Graham made that rule (about never being alone with the opposite sex) because people tried to sabotage him ie. putting a hooker in his hotel room and snapping a picture of him in the same room as her as soon as he came in alone.

And I've heard the whole thing about telling you're partner if you're feeling temped. It's an amazing idea, but I absolutely think that's a crock- it's totally counterintuitive to invite someone to take away your dessert, so to speak. Does an overweight person ever go up to a person with cake in his hand and say "I really want to eat this, take it away"? They probably avoid the temptation all together, and that's what you're trying to do. Kudos. As well, most of us think we're strong enough to fight it off, and we're afraid of our spouse's response.

Temptation can blind sight a person, and I am mature enough to know that. You are right that it WOULD be hard to talk to my husband about feeling tempted to stray but I would do it. Being tempted is white hot passion and it's not rational. It might feel good in the moment but it wouldn't feel good for the rest of my life and let's face it, passion lasts a short time and regret lasts a lifetime.
If my husband was tempted and he told me, it would hurt but I would quickly get past that and realize he is human. We would discuss what we could do to make OUR relationship better. I would request that my husband not seek out the woman who made him tempted as in not flirting with fire. Moths get burned when they fly close to a light but they still do it.
Both my husband and I have lived long enough to know it's just not worth it.
I will say I think some people have extramarital relationships as a sure fire way to end a marriage when they are discontented.
We are both content but I do not take this relationship for granted, that would be foolish. I am never complacent about the important things in life.

[JTG]

Maybe i'm just not a very "in the moment" kind of person, haha. If something happens, i've normally entertained the possibility of it happening beforehand... and already considered what i think about it, what i'd do in response, etc. I'm rarely surprised by people's actions if i've known them any length of time.

[jjelovich]

Love means: "I truly care for you, and want to be with you, despite our differences and your annoying habits."

Marriage means: "I believe I can put up with our differences and your annoying habits for the rest of my life. Let's put that theory to the test."

Love and marriage go together like a hourse and carriage...

I think the english language does not do sufficient justice to the word love and its meaning.

Love is one of those inexhaustible subjects, it's hard to explain but not as hard to know.

[Learning]

I decide every day to love my husband, even though, he pees on the floor sometimes and he snores... we have a balanced relationship. No-one keeps score and we are not competitive with each other. The point is, emotions can be internal and not based on fact. ..Relationships should make us better people ...Attraction IS biological. Attraction is a first step. ..I decide every day to love my husband, love is an action.
So in closing, attraction is important but has to be seen for what it is, a biological need. We as humans don't have just a primitive animal brain, we have higher brain function. We need to use that higher level brain function before we enter into any long term relationship if we want a more fulfilled life.

Your post (in its entirety) is one of the best responses I've heard to this question b/c it is well-rounded and addresses different aspects of a person/relationship (and the peeing on the floor bit cracked me up, too). From what you've seen is it common for spouses to compete with each other? Also, I was wondering how important you think physical attraction really is?
Sometimes love means loving somebody even if you don't really love them. I've found that security and belonging can be more important to me sometimes than even emotional fulfillment, for what that's worth.
Thanks for the input; I definitely relate to your posts. The one on self-sacrifice was deep, and I agree that commitment (as you described here) is definitely an act of love. I'm reminded of a line I heard in a movie once about how working on things during the hard times is what gets you from one "happy snapshot" to the next in a marriage.
Love means: "I truly care for you, and want to be with you, despite our differences and your annoying habits."
Marriage means: "I believe I can put up with our differences and your annoying habits for the rest of my life. Let's put that theory to the test."
This was simple & honest. Really appreciate that.

Love is trust and commitment. Everything else that comes with that level of intimacy is a perk ;)
What is it that motivates you to commit, though? (Biological needs like blueedsusan mentioned?)

[Antares]

Men pee on the floor, trust me. I have two sons and a husband. It's a "yuck" thing for me I complain occasionally and it does no good. Hubby wanders into the bathroom, in the dark with eyes closed and stands there half asleep at the toilet and the next morning I step in it. I wipe it up and go on. Actually when I visualize it, with him standing there eyes closed, holding it and swaying because he is not awake I think it's pretty funny. Thank God I'm a woman and can feel superior to that.

Oh! Haha. I finally get it now. I was quite confused at it. Isn't it sort of like my cousin firing off everywhere in my bathroom? I wouldn't use the bathroom until I had my 8 year old cousin wipe the place spotless. I'm not exactly the ideal 'big sister'. I know :devilish: Ok. I should stop here. It's not relevant.

[blueeyedsusan]

To "Learning". Attraction is important, it can be a physical or a intellectual attraction. It has to be there but it's not everything. Your "gut" your intuitive part, you need to recognize that and use it. Intuition is nothing more than the gathering of facts in such a quick manner you are getting from point one to 10 in your thought processes in a very fast way. It seems like "gut" but it IS the gathering of facts. I might be attracted to a person and then I get that feeling, good or uncomfortable. Develop that intuitive part, never pass by a person you feel the need to talk to or learn from. After the initial meeting of a person, if it is right (again learn to trust that intuition), anything after that you will need to develop that relationship, the growing and nurturing of that relationship has to be mutual and respectful.
As far as competing in relationships, of course that can happen, mostly to people that are past that initial lust and see their partner in a sibling rivalry type of way.
Marriage, relationships, whatever should be more mature than that. If that rears it's ugly head in a relationship, you should be able to make note of it with your partner, your partner should recognize it and stop it if he or she wants the relationship to work.

[Mountain Lion]

What is it that motivates you to commit, though? (Biological needs like blueedsusan mentioned?)
Psychological and biological needs... for some, social as well.

[blueeyedsusan]

I never really thought about getting married, both husband one and two were the ones who brought it up.
To me if you express your devotion and commitment in a field with no-one around but God listening and both mean it that is enough, but society demands more and it does matter in the legal sense to have those commitment papers.